On June 05 2015 09:25 Onegu wrote: Questions: All questions to the hosts must be sent as PMs, do not ask in the thread. You are not allowed to say in thread you’re going to ask the hosts something, and you are not allowed to share your answer with the thread. If the question is a clarification all town needs to know, the hosts will post an announcement in the thread.
On June 05 2015 09:25 Onegu wrote: 3. If there is any sort of issue, you are unsure about some mechanic, or you are just wondering if your devilish scheme is even allowed, feel free to PM me, or ask in-thread with green text. Don't feel shy; these games are meant to be a place to learn and be open.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
Scum lean.
What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement. I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.
So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
Wait....
So you are serious about your explanation for not answering a question directed at someone else, because it helps them answer the question if they are scum. But in saying this, you answered a question directed at someone else, your scum read?
This explanation is going to be good.
Yes my answer was serious.
I see now how that actually denied us information from kick start. It was a mistake on my part to actually answer that question.
Can you please clarify, why are you scumreading Kickstart?
I didn't like his statement about not liking liars.
This whole game is based on the concept of deception. If you don't like that aspect of the game, why are you here? You might claim that you like hunting lying mafia, But it's not a given beforehand what role you will be, so that doesn't make sense either.
I have no prior info about any of the players here, so he might have some personal conviction for why he said that, but to me it didn't seem like a genuine well thought through statement.
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
This post is super weird. Super long but no content.
On June 12 2015 08:45 batsnacks wrote: 5. Don't lie.
RuXx is on the Newbie list. How likely do you think it is that an inexperienced Mafia player would lead off the game talking about how it's cool for Town players to lie? An inexperienced Mafia member might be timid about saying hardly anything, but could be especially timid about telling everyone that there's nothing wrong with telling lies, even if you're Town. That kind of reckless boldness is a little Town-indicative to me.
Someone wants to vote against him because of his needless roleclaim, fine. But voting against him because he says it's fine to lie would be a stretch. And I think voting against him because he got caught answering a question directed at someone else (while explaining why you shouldn't answer questions directed at someone else) would be a stretch.
Why are you defending him so early. Let him do it himself.
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
On June 12 2015 16:53 Kickstart wrote: Either Rels is second smartest person in here behind me or he is trying real hard to pocket me D:. Everything hes posted has been in line with my thinking as well.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
On June 12 2015 21:53 Rels wrote: Don't care that you think it's forced. Good if you agree that it's scummy. I'll keep it in mind. Vote for him if you don't find anything scummier.
I wasn't implying that your post was forced I was implying that plants post was seemed forced. Or do you not care that I think plants post was forced?
No you're right I thought you said my post was forced.
On Page 9, batsnacks posts some philosophy about the nature of danger [...]
Hahaha
But really this post is exactly what you're saying not to do. Agree with oats completly:
On June 12 2015 12:58 Oatsmaster wrote: oh man thats a horrific post.... ARGH.
Like it doesnt scumhunt at all.
Its just advice.
I don't think that's a post you want to be agreeing with. We should not disparage the idea of posts that give advice, most especially in a Newbie game. I certainly hope that the other Town players will give me some good advice, at some point in the game. And if they aren't scumhunting in that same moment, it won't make good advice any less good.
Kickstart has said (and then re-emphasized) that: "the #1 goal of town should always be to show that they are town through their actions, and coming in a close second is helping to find scum."
Firstly, I'm not sure I agree with him. If I could only look Town or find Scum, I would probably rather find Scum. If I then get mislynched (because I didn't convince enough people that I was Town) then the work I did finding Scum could still get that player lynched soon afterward. But what's more relevant to this conversation is: IF looking Town is more important than finding Scum, then how does one show themselves to be Town WITHOUT scumhunting? Well, one good way is definitely "by giving helpful advice."
On June 12 2015 16:45 Rels wrote: Why are you defending him so early.
This was explained before you got here. If you read the whole thread before you post, then you won't end up clogging the pages with questions that were already answered. There's some "advice" for you.
Cool. I suppose the explanation you're talking about is this one.
On June 12 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: I don't think it would be productive for town for me to defend ruxxar. He's a big boy.
It's productive for Town for you to defend him, IF he is also Town. We can expect that at some point a few of the Newbies will need help with defending themselves (I could easily end up being one of them). And no, that shouldn't be your primary focus, but we all have a responsibility to try and prevent a mislynch when possible.
Two posts later is when you told us all about repetition of danger. Was that productive for the Town?
Side note: I don't know if there are any female players in the game, so if I refer to a "her" as a "him" please correct me.
I feel that you're spending a lot of times giving "advices" and defending people. That's it.
On June 12 2015 17:12 n00bKing wrote: [...] 3) I think his "quick and easy how to play town guide" contains at least one bit of bad advice, and maybe more.
Could you expand on that ?
Saying "don't claim your role" is far too much of an overgeneralization. It doesn't account for the player's role, and it doesn't account for timing. And there's at least 1 Town role in this setup that I think should probably claim, and should probably do so early in the game.
I am also not sure it's wise to be telling Newbies to find only one player they think is Mafia. You're not always going to be able to convince people that your target is a good lynch. Having a secondary target could help you inspire people to make a lynch that would also be good. Having two suspects doesn't always mean you're relying on unflipped associations. Looking for more than one target helps a player keep an open mind. Rules 2 and 3 of batsnacks' advice are basically "a guide on how to tunnel." Again, there's nothing wrong with giving advice. But I think his advice is bad.
Anyway n00bking, all you're saying makes sense. You give good advices and your defenses are good. But two things: - you should let newbies defend themselves, espacially early day 1. - your only scumread is based on a bad case. batsnacks hasn't done anything townie this game, but his deflection of your case is spot on.
Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
scott - I hated the only post of your predecessor, so I will probably push you super easily. Your posts atm are alright.
On June 13 2015 06:57 batsnacks wrote: ebwop also Rels doesn't appear to have re-evaluated his plants read now that scott has replaced. If Rels is mafia that could be why.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
Rels, what about ruXxar's post made you say this? [...]
Don't know really, I just felt like this post would be super hard to fake.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
I have strong town reads on wos and KS. I have town reads on ruxxar, oats and trfel. I really want to like Sulfu as he had the same attitude of "not posting a lot but ask question" last game, and he was town. But I think he has less than 5 posts atm, that's really not a lot.
Everybody I have not talk about I have either no read or mafia lean. It's especially hard on the moosy - geript - bats situation. I don't like moosy for : - his first post - his multiple times stating he is a newbie
But geript's reasoning for voting him is super bad. And batsnacks' one is so weird, involving double bus at one point.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
Why haven't you been asking questions to try and get reads on the people you are unsure of?
How was Fake)Plants possibly not an easy target?
Cause the one I wanted to ask to moosy was asked by noobking, waiting for answer now.
On June 13 2015 07:31 batsnacks wrote: Rels why do you keep putting me, moose and geript together? What even is the "moosy - geript - bats situation"???
Cause in my head at least one of you has to be mafia. Because I was suspecting moosy lightly, but the two people voting for him are doing so for reasons I don't agree with.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
Why haven't you been asking questions to try and get reads on the people you are unsure of?
How was Fake)Plants possibly not an easy target?
Cause the one I wanted to ask to moosy was asked by noobking, waiting for answer now.
What about the second question?
"How was Fake)Plants possibly not an easy target?"
I'd really like an answer, please.
No idea how to answer that one. For me his post was the scummiest at the time I entered the thread. I was happy to find someone : - entering the thread late - with an excuse - with fluff
I was sure 100% he was mafia. Now that he got replaced that has changed.
On June 05 2015 09:25 Onegu wrote: Time Cycle: This game will follow a 48 hour day/24 hour night cycle. Any votes or night actions up to and including the deadline will count. One minute after the deadline, the game will be put on hold until the night post is posted. The deadline for each cycle will be 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post:
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post.
Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about:
On June 12 2015 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yo, also keep in mind a newbie might be Mafia which is why he's not jumping on my post. Seems like something Mafia should do from reading the guide.
On June 13 2015 03:34 geript wrote: Nah. It'd be pretty odd if there wasn't at least 1 veteran on the mafia team.
I'm re-reading posts right now to make a list, but the veteran(s) had to be inactive at the start to not point it out. On the other hand, any newbie might be the Mafia.
On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else.
I guess he is sorta/kinda suggesting geript as a lynch? But if you think Moosy doesn't take any stands in this thread, he especially doesn't take any in the voting thread.
On June 13 2015 07:52 MoosyDoosy wrote: While the case Trfel seems interesting, I'm not going to vote for you quite yet. It's simple for someone to just notice suspicious stuff while reading which explains the filler before you found the post from Plants. The rest of what Trfel says is interesting tho, so I'd still count you around as a possible Mafia.
Wishy Washy very naughty.
eh, not wishy washy. I initially thought that Rels was a townie and didn't suspect him. What Trfel says is very interesting and would be a very hard read on him but I don't feel it's concrete enough to vote for him right off the bat. It does raise some yellow flags around him tho.
This is STILL wishy-washy.
Side note: I think the fact that Rels jumped right into the thread and started responding to posts in order (without reading the entire thread first) is slightly Town-indicative. I don't think it's a GOOD habit to have, but I don't think it's something a Mafia player would do. And I could tell that's what he had done even before he admitted that's what he had done.
Lol, if you think a slight change in opinion is wishy washy then I guess I can never change my opinion or stance in the future.
No he is right for once. Your posts were wishy washy. You can un-wishy-wash them by pointing out what specifically is interesting about the case. Saying the case is interesting and that you could possibly, maybe, potentially, conditionally, vote Rels later but for now all you have are some vague yellow flags is wishy washy.
Got you.
Alright, I said this BEFORE n00bking as well, but I can read Rels as townie. Trfel's point that Rels' early posts were filler is false because Rels said he was making posts as he read. That makes that first post invalid.
Trfel's second point that Rels spotted Plants as an easy target is something that I can agree with. Plants' post seemed like something a newbie would make so Rels might have been trying to take advantage of it.
Trfel's third point is something that I disagree with. I'm pretty sure that ruXxar is an excited newbie unless he does something else really strange so I don't agree with the reasoning of the post.
So overall, sure it might be worth looking at Rels, but definitely not worth voting for this round.
Wait... what?
1. Of course Rels says he was making posts as he read. The fact is that we have no way to verify this, and that there is no good town motivation to do this.
2. I could understand if Rels had a scumread on ruXxar. I could understand if Rels had a townread on ruXxar. I could understand if Rels had a null read on ruXxar. I find it hard to see how Rels was unsure about ruXxar, and then ruXxar made a content-less post that showed that he can't defend himself, and then decided to townread him solidly.
OK Trfel. You made your case and it had good points. I'm not mafia though, and your arguments here are shit. You had a good case and it's wrong, that's it.
1. So it's NAI. So it's not a point in favor of me being mafia.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
Scum lean.
What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement. I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.
So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
Wait....
So you are serious about your explanation for not answering a question directed at someone else, because it helps them answer the question if they are scum. But in saying this, you answered a question directed at someone else, your scum read?
This explanation is going to be good.
Yes my answer was serious.
I see now how that actually denied us information from kick start. It was a mistake on my part to actually answer that question.
Can you please clarify, why are you scumreading Kickstart?
I didn't like his statement about not liking liars.
This whole game is based on the concept of deception. If you don't like that aspect of the game, why are you here? You might claim that you like hunting lying mafia, But it's not a given beforehand what role you will be, so that doesn't make sense either.
I have no prior info about any of the players here, so he might have some personal conviction for why he said that, but to me it didn't seem like a genuine well thought through statement.
That is not a good reason.
I was unsure of him for having a scum lean at the start of the game for no good reason.
On June 13 2015 08:40 Trfel wrote: Also, why did you change your mind so quickly from this post:
On June 13 2015 07:28 Trfel wrote: MoosyDoosy, any thoughts about my case on Rels?
Would love to know that as well.
Rels, did you post while reading the thread or after you read everything?
Why ?
If you mean tonight, I read everything then I posted.
I'm talking about when you first came into the read. Did you post while reading stuff or posted after reading everything?
I read and posted as I found interesting posts.
While the case Trfel seems interesting, I'm not going to vote for you quite yet. It's simple for someone to just notice suspicious stuff while reading which explains the filler before you found the post from Plants. The rest of what Trfel says is interesting tho, so I'd still count you around as a possible Mafia.
Where you seem to feel that my case is fairly good, just that you weren't quite convinced enough to vote for Rels yet?
On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post:
On June 13 2015 05:52 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 13 2015 05:48 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 05:44 Kickstart wrote:
On June 13 2015 05:42 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post.
Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about:
On June 12 2015 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yo, also keep in mind a newbie might be Mafia which is why he's not jumping on my post. Seems like something Mafia should do from reading the guide.
On June 13 2015 03:36 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 13 2015 03:34 geript wrote: Nah. It'd be pretty odd if there wasn't at least 1 veteran on the mafia team.
I'm re-reading posts right now to make a list, but the veteran(s) had to be inactive at the start to not point it out. On the other hand, any newbie might be the Mafia.
First Point The reason why I suggested Sulfurus and geript is because they had one vote apiece and had some points made against them. If batsnacks really wanted to make a case, he could make one off of either of them if he wanted to.
btw, the only stand and case I'm making and have been making is against geript. You might be right in that I'm being overly cautious in my vote and how I'm not making too many cases against others, but I figure it's better to be safe than make irrational judgments.
Also, let's get this straight. If you look at the voting thread, batsnacks is not voting for me and neither is geript. Just to let you know because you keep saying batsnacks and geript are voting against me.
Second Point My reasoning was this: From other people's reactions, it seems that it's common to have Mafias jump on vague posts to get a mislynch in. This will most likely be something that a veteran Mafia would do if he had the chance, but it seems that it was skipped over. My conclusion from this was that the veteran Mafia must have come to the thread late and missed his chance.
On the other hand, it's also likely that a newbie Mafia might have seen it but didn't try and mislynch me based on the post because he's a newbie. From this, my conclusion was that the newbie Mafia might have come to the thread early.
I just felt it was a good start for us to try and narrow some people down.
OK. Why did you feel the need to help batsnacks ? What was your motivation behind that ?
On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post:
On June 13 2015 05:52 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 13 2015 05:48 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 05:44 Kickstart wrote:
On June 13 2015 05:42 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post.
Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about:
On June 12 2015 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yo, also keep in mind a newbie might be Mafia which is why he's not jumping on my post. Seems like something Mafia should do from reading the guide.
On June 13 2015 03:36 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 13 2015 03:34 geript wrote: Nah. It'd be pretty odd if there wasn't at least 1 veteran on the mafia team.
I'm re-reading posts right now to make a list, but the veteran(s) had to be inactive at the start to not point it out. On the other hand, any newbie might be the Mafia.
[...]
Also, let's get this straight. If you look at the voting thread, batsnacks is not voting for me and neither is geript. Just to let you know because you keep saying batsnacks and geript are voting against me.
On June 13 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel's case is still good but I'm now voting sulfur for misrepresenting my play last game (twice) and now voting me opportunistically.
##unvote ##vote Sulfurus
If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game. And I don't think he misreprented your plays. Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
Alright it's getting super late here so good night everyone! I will leave you a list post so you can see where I am at while I'm not here. If you need justification on a name ask and I'll answer tomorrow.
On June 13 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel's case is still good but I'm now voting sulfur for misrepresenting my play last game (twice) and now voting me opportunistically.
##unvote ##vote Sulfurus
If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game. And I don't think he misreprented your plays. Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
Yeah you're totally wrong and that is points against you. The only time I posted nonsense that game was at night and that's because I was the cop and did not want to get killed. My town play that game was magnificent.
And why does the fact that it's me saying it mean anything at all? Words are words you either like the words or you don't it doesn't matter who says the words.
No I'm not talking about bad post. Last game you posted a long post that meant nothing, like this game on the philosophy of danger.
On June 13 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel's case is still good but I'm now voting sulfur for misrepresenting my play last game (twice) and now voting me opportunistically.
##unvote ##vote Sulfurus
If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game. And I don't think he misreprented your plays. Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
You just voted me for saying something you agree with!!!
Yeah I would have agreed if someone else voted you like that. But Sulfu did that day 1 last game. On Breshke and SL.
Maybe the fact that you are pressured so much makes you not think. Did you hard vote Sulfu, or was that a OMGUS sort of vote ?
On June 13 2015 09:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: @Rels, any comments on my posts? Still confused why you don't think I'm townie.
OK sorry in advance, but in my mind it's actually pretty good where you're at. I was so sure you were mafia with your first post that me imagining you at null read is a pretty good deal. When I made this post with the two points I was thinking I was going to destroy you. I think I was clouded by my first impression of you.
You won't ever be a town lean in my mind until you either make a case on someone and defend it, or sheep a case on someone and explain why. Not taking stances = I can't judge you 100%.
On June 13 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel's case is still good but I'm now voting sulfur for misrepresenting my play last game (twice) and now voting me opportunistically.
##unvote ##vote Sulfurus
If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game. And I don't think he misreprented your plays. Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
You just voted me for saying something you agree with!!!
Yeah I would have agreed if someone else voted you like that. But Sulfu did that day 1 last game. On Breshke and SL.
Maybe the fact that you are pressured so much makes you not think. Did you hard vote Sulfu, or was that a OMGUS sort of vote ?
It doesn't matter since you appear to agree with the vote???
And no sulfur didn't do anything like this last game sulfur was not on anyone's radar seriously until the end of the game.
What do you mean I agree with the vote ? Please explain 'cause I have the impression we're taking about different things.
About Sulfu, yes he is perceived differently this game. I am too. But I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about the frequency and the way to post. That, I feel is similar to you.
And batsnacks, you have very few post worth reading with an enormous filter.
Though I have this feeling: that's weird that everybody is on you. Really, if you're mafia it means that scott, moosy or damdred almost have to be too.
But that doesn't matter atm. Make content and if someone is scummier than you I'll vote that person. That's it.
On June 13 2015 09:23 Rels wrote: And batsnacks, you have very few post worth reading with an enormous filter.
Though I have this feeling: that's weird that everybody is on you. Really, if you're mafia it means that scott, moosy or damdred almost have to be too.
But that doesn't matter atm. Make content and if someone is scummier than you I'll vote that person. That's it.
I have gotten more done than almost the entire game combined, certainly more than you. You have... pushed easy lynch plants and responded to Trfel's case and... that's about all. If I wasn't posting so much the game would be <25% of the current length. Also why damdred? I wish damdred were posting he would tell you to stop voting me because it is literally impossible for me to play this way as mafia.
On June 13 2015 16:47 n00bKing wrote: Okay, one last post, then bed, and I'll see everyone in the morning.
What's the prevailing philosophy around here on whether (or when) Carl should roleclaim? Seems to me that if he remains hidden, there is all kinds of potential for disaster, and maybe even moreso in a Newbie game.
So does someone with that type of role usually roleclaim? If not, why not? And if so, is it usually done Day 1, or not until after Night 1 begins?
I can see some distinct advantages of him claiming during Day 1, instead of waiting for Night. If the claim goes uncountered (and comes from anyone that doesn't have a bunch of votes stacked up on them) then we have a largely confirmed Townie. Anyone who had previously voted against that player gets a small strike against them, for barking up the wrong tree. And Carl's vote in the batsnacks/Sulfurus debate takes on extra weight, because although Carl could still be incorrect, at least we could expect that he's not incorrect on purpose.
I feel like this topic should have probably been raised a while ago, but I kept waiting and waiting, to see who would bring it up, so that I could award them some Town Cred just for mentioning it. (Guess I have to give the Town Cred to myself now? w00t?)
Anyway, interested in hearing other opinions on this.
Thinking about it I agree with it. There is no good reason to stay hidden if you're Carl. My reasonning is: - if you're a someone most people sees at townie, you take the risk of killing the doctor - if you're someone people are suspicious of, you take the risk of killing the cop or the vigi
On June 13 2015 09:23 Rels wrote: And batsnacks, you have very few post worth reading with an enormous filter.
Though I have this feeling: that's weird that everybody is on you. Really, if you're mafia it means that scott, moosy or damdred almost have to be too.
But that doesn't matter atm. Make content and if someone is scummier than you I'll vote that person. That's it.
Reasoning for us three?
Just quote off my mind people not voting. What I wanted to exprim is this:
On June 13 2015 15:07 n00bKing wrote: Situation: 11 players have votes in place, and 2 players are not voting. All 11 of the votes are on either batsnacks or Sulfurus. No one has a vote on anyone else.
At this stage of a Day 1, I'm more used to seeing a smattering of votes on some other miscellaneous players too. Maybe partially because the scum team doesn't want to have all their votes in one place, so they fan out some (and maybe a random Townie or two gets tunneled on their respective targets, and won't budge, even though no one else has any interest in following along).
Theory: This situation makes it pretty likely that one of the two players receiving votes is actually scum, and that we don't have a Town vs. Town situation for our two vote leaders. The scum team has not been able to fan out their votes, because they've needed "all hands on deck" to make sure that the scum player doesn't take a runaway lead in the voting.
Conclusion: Even though there's a lot of time left in the Phase, we may not want to introduce a third lynch target, and should instead stick to trying to pick between these two (since, if the Theory is correct, one of them would flip Red).
Thoughts? Does the Theory seem reasonable, or is the Situation more likely just an odd coincidence?
On June 13 2015 09:00 Rels wrote: Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
Yeah you're totally wrong and that is points against you. The only time I posted nonsense that game was at night and that's because I was the cop and did not want to get killed.
Definitely not true. I expect he is talking about this steaming pile here, which was posted early in Day 1, and not at night:
batsnacks wrote: above is THE JOYOUS, LAKE below is KEEPING STILL, MOUNTAIN
Influence. Success.
When a weak element is above (the lake) and a strong element is below (the mountain), their powers attract each other so that they unite. This brings about success, for all success depends on the effect of mutual attraction
Perseverance furthers.
By keeping still within while experiencing joy without, one can prevent the joy from going to excess and hold it within proper bounds. This is the meaning of, "Perseverance furthers."
To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune
Heaven and earth attract each other and thus all creatures come into being. From the attractions they exert we can learn the nature of all beings in heaven and on earth.
A lake on the mountain: The image of influence. Thus the superior man encourages people to approach him By his readiness to receive them.
A mountain with a lake on its summit is stimulated by the moisture from the lake. It has this advantage because its summit does not jut out as a peak but is sunken. The image counsels that the mind should be kept humble and free, so that it may remain receptive to good advice. People soon give up counseling a man who thinks that he knows everything better than anyone else.
The influence shows itself in the calves of the legs. Misfortune. Tarrying brings good fortune.
In movement, the calf of the leg follows the foot; by itself it can neither go forward nor stand still. Since the movement is not self-governed, it bodes ill. One should wait quietly until one is impelled to action by a real influence. Then one remains uninjured.
Your philosophical post about danger in this game looks a bit like a forced attempt to duplicate the same kind of nonsense you kicked off the last game with (since it was very recent, and people will remember you were Town).
Meanwhile, you never answered my question about approximately how many times you've been assigned a scum role in these games.
[...] Also I only provide iching commentary when I'm town so I thank you for bringing this up.
That's true. I found 3 games where I did something similar, all of them town. Posts in spoiler if you're curious. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 08:11 Trfel wrote: First, my computer internet died, so I am on my phone.
Second, Moosy, I do think that ruX could be mafia, but I feel that Rels is more likely.
Though I might actually want to lynch bats instead. His quick agreement with me is unexpected, his play doesnt feel like his town meta.
Your case is the best most compelling thing that has been posted yet??? Also you can't meta me remember what happened last time you tried?
Last time I tried was the Ver game and I was right.
I have learned a thing or two since my first game of mafia ever, thank you very much.
You don't have to believe this is my normal town meta because it's not, but you can't believe my scum meta is to post this much. I am a 1 page per day scum poster not a post more than anyone else scum poster.
That's not as extreme as he's saying, but it is true. In particular, look at the size of the filters of these two games. In both he got lynched D1. Can you guess in which one he was scum ?
On June 13 2015 18:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Did you see the quality of those posts though. Cause in this game, there is quantity but practically no quality.
I agree. But quality is not the reason I'm unvoting him.
On June 13 2015 18:19 Oatsmaster wrote: I think it's pretty unlikely we have a PGO. Hey rels, what made you look through bats last few games? Also, who do you want to lynch now?
Just Bats seems like the easy target so I wanted to look at him more. The two posts I quote are statements he made to defend himself, so I wanted to see if he was lying to defend.
No idea who I want to lynch. Two of my three town reads are voting sulfurus. I'm suspicious of Sulfu for two reasons: - The "case" on KS on his first post doesn't exist - The vote on BS is opportunist
But to me he's playing the same as last game I played with him. So I don't know.
Two suspicious people are geript and Damdred. Reasons for Damdred are easy, he didn't anything, so it's so weak. I'm reading geript's filter right now.
I read his filter and if we're voting BS for no quality post, geript's post are worse. Didn't find anything scummy per se, but there is the push on moosy for a weird reason ... and that's it. He doesn't even answer properly to questions.
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
On June 12 2015 10:30 Kickstart wrote: Because I've had the urge to troll you since I came back to playing mafia Oats. I can't help myself. Don't worry though the 2 scums atm are ruxxar and sulfurus so you are not in my tunnel atm.
[...] Oooh Damdred replaced in. That guy's town 100%. ezpz.
On June 13 2015 06:41 geript wrote: Nah. Damdred is 100% town. He's gotten pretty easy to read.
It's pretty cool that you can read damdred (= but this game he's impossible for to read atm due to lack of posts. Were you saying that if he's town you're going to know it for sure later ? And do you read damdred town right now ?
On June 13 2015 06:47 geript wrote: Wave not making association cases would be far more concerning. Not a fan of trfel
Why don't you like Trfel?
Not really something something I can put my finger on. Feels I guess. Maybe my impression of his meta is off from his actual meta since I don't think I've played a game with him for a bit. [...]
I would be super interested if you took the time to reread Trfel's past game with you and expand on that. If you don't have the time to do that, could you at least try to explain this more ?
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
This post is pretty bad.
On June 12 2015 10:30 Kickstart wrote: Because I've had the urge to troll you since I came back to playing mafia Oats. I can't help myself. Don't worry though the 2 scums atm are ruxxar and sulfurus so you are not in my tunnel atm.
[...] Oooh Damdred replaced in. That guy's town 100%. ezpz.
On June 13 2015 06:41 geript wrote: Nah. Damdred is 100% town. He's gotten pretty easy to read.
It's pretty cool that you can read damdred (= but this game he's impossible for to read atm due to lack of posts. Were you saying that if he's town you're going to know it for sure later ? And do you read damdred town right now ?
On June 13 2015 06:47 geript wrote: Wave not making association cases would be far more concerning. Not a fan of trfel
Why don't you like Trfel?
Not really something something I can put my finger on. Feels I guess. Maybe my impression of his meta is off from his actual meta since I don't think I've played a game with him for a bit. [...]
I would be super interested if you took the time to reread Trfel's past game with you and expand on that. If you don't have the time to do that, could you at least try to explain this more ?
Yo everybody I'm super drunk so I'll post my thoughts and get back to party.
From what I read I'm sure bs and sulfu are both town. Geript is not making sense and didn't answer my question. I think he's mafia so my vote is on the right place.
Damdred stopped lurking and his posts seems townie to me.
From the last post count I m happy to see that my two scumleads are voting for me and geript seems to be the lynch.
Its my last post until tomorrow so take care everyone
Yo everybody. Wasn't available all day. I finish reading everything and I have a lot of posts to answer to and I need to sleep so I will do that tomorrow. If I'm not vigid of course.
A message to everybody: I'm town, so even if I'm lynched tomorrow keep these in mind: - look for who is sheeping my lynch too easily - continue looking for mafia even if you're sure I am one. In particular, don't start suspecting people because of my relations with them, like moosy did, before I flip
On June 15 2015 06:48 Rels wrote: Yo everybody. Wasn't available all day. I finish reading everything and I have a lot of posts to answer to and I need to sleep so I will do that tomorrow. If I'm not vigid of course.
So if you die tonight, it could only be because you were vigi'd? There's no chance the scum team would have killed you? That's only because you're lynchbait now, right? And not because you're on the team?
Alright finally have some time in front of me. So it's time to post a lot of things. (=
Here is what I'm going to do. First I will defend against the cases I find in the thread, and answer any questions I see. Then, I will post my analysis of every player in this game.
This will probably take all day 'cause I'm also working. For the people paying me, you know. I also have a meeting at 10:00 my time, in 30 minutes, so I will be interrupted for a few hours in the middle.
So. Let's start with Trfel's case.
On June 13 2015 07:14 Trfel wrote: Rels
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
I already defended against this case. Apparently people have forgotten, so here I go again. It's a good day 1 case so I can only explain my point of view. Nevertheless, only the second point is a strong one.
1. When I entered the thread, I was the last player to do so, if you don't count boxerfred who got replaced. So I had to catch up, and I commented on every post I saw. This is a pretty weak point actually, as someone could do that as either alignement. It's true that it's not town indicative. It's also true that it's not scum indicative. It's just that: NAI.
2. This is the stronger point of the case. Going after the easiest target is certainly scummy. But it's not the scummiest thing possible: the scummiest is to jump on an easy train. That's not what I did here. What I read the thread for the first time, plants' post jumped to me as super scummy, so I analyzed it and pushed a case.
I think what is more scummy in my attitude is not the push on plants. It's that it's almost the only analysis I did since the beginning of the game. I understand perfectly what that looks like: 1 - do 1 case 2 - say you're done 3 - don't do anything afterwards. That is almost true so people has the right to suspect me for that reason. This is going to change today, so if you're a good town and that's your reason for voting me, please re evaluate your reads in 12 hours.
I say almost 'cause I also did some analysis on moosy, batsnacks' meta and Sulfu's meta. But it's not much for 3 days of playing.
3. On the contrary, that is a super weak point. Because Trfel in his analysis missed this post, one of my first:
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
Scum lean.
What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement. I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.
So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
Wait....
So you are serious about your explanation for not answering a question directed at someone else, because it helps them answer the question if they are scum. But in saying this, you answered a question directed at someone else, your scum read?
This explanation is going to be good.
Yes my answer was serious.
I see now how that actually denied us information from kick start. It was a mistake on my part to actually answer that question.
Can you please clarify, why are you scumreading Kickstart?
I didn't like his statement about not liking liars.
This whole game is based on the concept of deception. If you don't like that aspect of the game, why are you here? You might claim that you like hunting lying mafia, But it's not a given beforehand what role you will be, so that doesn't make sense either.
I have no prior info about any of the players here, so he might have some personal conviction for why he said that, but to me it didn't seem like a genuine well thought through statement.
That is not a good reason.
This is what happened: 1 - I suspected ruxxar for his "scumlean" magical apparence on KS. 2 - My suspicion was greatly lessened by another post made by him.
But the third point of Trfel says I only did the second step. And it's false.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
4. Hasn't re-evaluated his read on plants now that scott has replaced, which one would think would be a high priority for him.
This is batsnacks 4th added point on Trfel case. I wasn't going to respond to it, but I'm seeing that Trfel thinks it's true.
On June 13 2015 11:07 Trfel wrote: [...] So, Rels made a faked post that was an easy contribution. Then he didn't re-evaluate when the player he was scumreading (largely for inactivity) was replaced, and then batsnacks read Rels' filter and Rels looked scummier. [...]
Trfel and BS are both saying I didn't re evaluate my read after scott replaced him. I'm going to prove that is not true.
Here is what happened: 1 - I did my case on plants 2 - I quit the thread 3 - Before I went back to the thread, batsnacks said I didn't re evaluate 4 - I went back to the thread and re evaluated.
So the point of me not re evaluating is wrong, because it was said when I was not here. If you don't believe me let's look at the chronolical order of posting:
First Last post of me before I quit the thread. I'm still on plants and scott didn't replace yet. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Second scott was replaced and I was not reading the thread. Batsnacks post this saying I was not re evaluating my read after scott replaced. It is non sense because I couldn't have re evaluated my read because I wasn't here. + Show Spoiler +
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
4. Hasn't re-evaluated his read on plants now that scott has replaced, which one would think would be a high priority for him.
Third In the first post when I came back, I re evaluated my read. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 07:16 Rels wrote: Re everyone. Welcome Dam and scott then!
scott - I hated the only post of your predecessor, so I will probably push you super easily. Your posts atm are alright.
On June 13 2015 06:57 batsnacks wrote: ebwop also Rels doesn't appear to have re-evaluated his plants read now that scott has replaced. If Rels is mafia that could be why.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
Rels, what about ruXxar's post made you say this? [...]
Don't know really, I just felt like this post would be super hard to fake.
For the record, I already responded to this point here, so that's the second time I do that. Stop bringing up false things in the future.
Alright as I said I have a meeting, so I'm stopping here for the moment. I'm rereading the thread to make sure I don't miss question or case against me and I'm currently page 31. I will get back to it after the meeting.
Rels is generally throwing around suspicions on everything. His townread on ruXxar changed after it was clear that the push on ruXxar wasn't going anywhere. He's scumreading people already being scumread by others, and multiple times he uses other people's posts to justify increasing his own suspicions of other people. + Show Spoiler [Examples] +
Criticizing MoosyDoosy's opening post (geript already did this) Suspicious of batsnacks (common suspicion), geript (WaveofShadow already said this), and MoosyDoosy (geript) Agrees with the suspicion I voiced on MoosyDoosy Immediately asked geript for his reason for being suspicious of scott31337, suddenly is more suspicious of him himself (see my previous post)
It seems like Rels is like a leaf in the wind, following thread sentiment, jumping on whatever works. He townreads people who are being townread already, he scumreads people who are being scumread, and only changes when the thread sentiment shifts.
The one major departure from this trend is when he townreads batsnacks. He did this before Damdred jumped in. This is a pretty big change in his read, and against the thread sentiment. However, I think that the way that Rels jumps on whatever suspicion is available every other time in the thread is quite telling.
I don't know how Trfel can say that about me when three of my only strong reads at the time were not following thread sentiment: - plants scummy - sulfu townie - bats townie
Furthermore, saying I suspect geript because of wos' earlier suspicions is pretty stupid.
Trfel, the rest of your posts about me is good but this one is super shitty, you're forcing a read. I suppose it's confirmation bias.
(bold on "at the time" 'cause I'm tired of people misusing my quotes. If later I find plants townie, sulfu scummy or bats scummy and you want to attack me for that, don't quote this post it's useless. Find something else)
NB I almost posted this post without reading the posts after. Lucky for me I did, because noobking posted a rebuttal just after Trfel's post here. He's saying more or less the same as I do.
On June 15 2015 17:01 Rels wrote: Alright as I said I have a meeting, so I'm stopping here for the moment. I'm rereading the thread to make sure I don't miss question or case against me and I'm currently page 31. I will get back to it after the meeting.
So see you in a few hours! (=
When you are back I want to hear your opinion on sulfur and his adamant defense of you. What do you think of his reasons for doing so. Why do you think he would do such a thing?
I will do an analysis and post my thought about every player when I'm done defending myself. But the short answer is:
I'm not adament to him being town, as I was willing to lynch him instead of bats if the choice was between the two. Again, at the time. But I thought and still think he's townie because: - meta (he's playing exactly like last game where he was town) - he's not jumping on the easy train (lynching me)
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
On June 14 2015 06:13 Rels wrote: Yo everybody I'm super drunk so I'll post my thoughts and get back to party.
From what I read I'm sure bs and sulfu are both town. Geript is not making sense and didn't answer my question. I think he's mafia so my vote is on the right place.
Damdred stopped lurking and his posts seems townie to me.
From the last post count I m happy to see that my two scumleads are voting for me and geript seems to be the lynch.
Its my last post until tomorrow so take care everyone
Sulf went from second on your lynch list to "sure town" - Can you inform me how you came to this reasoning? Do you want to lynch Trfel now as well?
scott linked two posts of mine and say there is an evolution of reads without explanation.
In the first post, he's saying that I think sulfu is mafia. That is false. In the second post, he's saying that I think sulfu is town. That is true.
The problem in his analysis of this sentence:
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
Here I exprim the fact that if I had to choose between batsnacks and sulfu, I would lynch Sulfu. It is NOT saying that Sulfu is second in my list lynch.
On June 14 2015 11:33 scott31337 wrote: Sulf went from second on your lynch list to "sure town"
Scott is saying that my post means: Sulfu is second in my lynch list.
Scott, your first question is nonsense because your affirmation preceding it is false.
Your second question:
On June 14 2015 11:33 scott31337 wrote: Do you want to lynch Trfel now as well?
No. WHAT THE FUCK is this question. Please explain it to me.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
On June 14 2015 06:13 Rels wrote: Yo everybody I'm super drunk so I'll post my thoughts and get back to party.
From what I read I'm sure bs and sulfu are both town. Geript is not making sense and didn't answer my question. I think he's mafia so my vote is on the right place.
Damdred stopped lurking and his posts seems townie to me.
From the last post count I m happy to see that my two scumleads are voting for me and geript seems to be the lynch.
Its my last post until tomorrow so take care everyone
I want to know what specifically made you change your opinion on sulfurus and damdred. [...]
Nothing changed about Sulfu's read. See this post where I explain it.
The reason for why I changed my read on Damdred is in the two posts you quoted ... seriously. Just had to read them.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
On June 14 2015 06:13 Rels wrote: Damdred stopped lurking and his posts seems townie to me.
Now, a better question you could have asked: what did I mean by "his posts seems townie to me". And it's true that it's pretty bad saying that without backing it up. The first reason, stopping lurking, is why I didn't consider him for a lynch day 1. Right now, Damdred's posts left a townie feeling on me but I have no idea why. Will analyze them later along when I start analyzing people.
On June 15 2015 05:12 batsnacks wrote: Alright Rels is mafia. His read progression on sulfurus goes like this:
First I voted sulfurus for voting me opportunistically. Rels responds to me saying that if it were anyone but sulfurus then he would consider this scummy, but since sulfurus voted opportunistically last game then it is not scummy.
Rels repeats that if anyone but sulfurus had voted me the way that sulfurus did, he would consider it scummy. However since sulfurus voted SL and Breshke opportunistically last game as town, then he is not scum reading sulfurus for it.
Yeah I would have agreed if someone else voted you like that. But Sulfu did that day 1 last game. On Breshke and SL.
Rels suddenly says he is suspicious of sulfurus for voting opportunistically, directly contradicting two posts he made earlier explaining that sulfurus voting opportunistically does not make him mafia since he did the same thing in his last game.
No idea who I want to lynch. Two of my three town reads are voting sulfurus. I'm suspicious of Sulfu for two reasons: - The "case" on KS on his first post doesn't exist - The vote on BS is opportunist
Rels votes geript and says if the wagon on geript doesn't go anywhere, that he will be switching to sulfurus.
On June 13 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel's case is still good but I'm now voting sulfur for misrepresenting my play last game (twice) and now voting me opportunistically.
##unvote ##vote Sulfurus
If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game.
On June 13 2015 09:07 Rels wrote: Town lean Trfel Sulfu Oats ruxxar
On June 13 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel's case is still good but I'm now voting sulfur for misrepresenting my play last game (twice) and now voting me opportunistically.
##unvote ##vote Sulfurus
If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game. And I don't think he misreprented your plays. Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
You just voted me for saying something you agree with!!!
Yeah I would have agreed if someone else voted you like that. But Sulfu did that day 1 last game. On Breshke and SL.
On June 13 2015 18:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Did you see the quality of those posts though. Cause in this game, there is quantity but practically no quality.
I agree. But quality is not the reason I'm unvoting him.
On June 13 2015 18:19 Oatsmaster wrote: I think it's pretty unlikely we have a PGO. Hey rels, what made you look through bats last few games? Also, who do you want to lynch now?
No idea who I want to lynch. Two of my three town reads are voting sulfurus. I'm suspicious of Sulfu for two reasons: - The "case" on KS on his first post doesn't exist - The vote on BS is opportunist
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
The events described here are all true. The conclusion is false.
I thought that Sulfu was townie. As said, the two things making me suspecting him are described here. Yes, one point against Sulfu is that he voted for you opportustically. But I still thought Sulfu was townie, while still having two points against him.
batsnacks, the summary of your case is: - my read on Sulfu changed without reasons. ==>I just proved that to be false.
- I voted geript even though I find Sulfu scummy. ==> That is not true. Two things about that: ===> Never said I was willing to lynch Sulfu. I said that if I had to choose between you and Sulfu, I would lynch Sulfu. See this post. ===> Even though I have suspicions against Sulfu, I think he's townie.
On June 15 2015 05:37 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, I started reading filters and I especially looked at Rels/Sulfurus as people have been implying. I REALLY think they're both Mafia.
Rels first comes into the thread and directs all attention to the passive posts from both me and Fake)Plants. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
Then he tries to switch the case onto me-geript-batsnacks which is the next best scapegoat from a newbie who only posted once and never again. Not only that, but notice how he attempts to bring this under the light while trying to cover for Sulfurus who is beginning to become suspected.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
I have strong town reads on wos and KS. I have town reads on ruxxar, oats and trfel. I really want to like Sulfu as he had the same attitude of "not posting a lot but ask question" last game, and he was town. But I think he has less than 5 posts atm, that's really not a lot.
Everybody I have not talk about I have either no read or mafia lean. It's especially hard on the moosy - geript - bats situation. I don't like moosy for : - his first post - his multiple times stating he is a newbie
But geript's reasoning for voting him is super bad. And batsnacks' one is so weird, involving double bus at one point.
Well. Here is my brain atm.
Then he tries to make a case on me once people tell him me-geript-batsnacks was never a thing.
On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post:
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post.
Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about:
On June 12 2015 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yo, also keep in mind a newbie might be Mafia which is why he's not jumping on my post. Seems like something Mafia should do from reading the guide.
On June 13 2015 03:34 geript wrote: Nah. It'd be pretty odd if there wasn't at least 1 veteran on the mafia team.
I'm re-reading posts right now to make a list, but the veteran(s) had to be inactive at the start to not point it out. On the other hand, any newbie might be the Mafia.
After this, he leaves the thread for a bit and posts a list of people he suspects in order to pretend to be active. Then WaveofShadow, Oats, and me begin to defend batsnacks whereupon a case begins to form around geript and Sulfurus. Rels decides upon lynching geript and not Sulfurus. Note that before this he is also defending Sulfurus by saying he played the same way in "the previous game". However, batsnacks provided several examples where Sulfurus was providing better critical analysis whereupon Rels is forced to remain quiet.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
##Vote geript
As Trfel already pointed out, Rels also does not really seem to support this vote as he already knows who Mafia REALLY is.
On June 13 2015 19:22 Rels wrote: Geript could you expand on two things when you come back ?
1
On June 13 2015 03:08 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
This post is pretty bad.
On June 12 2015 10:30 Kickstart wrote: Because I've had the urge to troll you since I came back to playing mafia Oats. I can't help myself. Don't worry though the 2 scums atm are ruxxar and sulfurus so you are not in my tunnel atm.
[...] Oooh Damdred replaced in. That guy's town 100%. ezpz.
On June 13 2015 06:41 geript wrote: Nah. Damdred is 100% town. He's gotten pretty easy to read.
It's pretty cool that you can read damdred (= but this game he's impossible for to read atm due to lack of posts. Were you saying that if he's town you're going to know it for sure later ? And do you read damdred town right now ?
2
On June 13 2015 06:56 geript wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 geript wrote: Wave not making association cases would be far more concerning. Not a fan of trfel
Why don't you like Trfel?
Not really something something I can put my finger on. Feels I guess. Maybe my impression of his meta is off from his actual meta since I don't think I've played a game with him for a bit. [...]
I would be super interested if you took the time to reread Trfel's past game with you and expand on that. If you don't have the time to do that, could you at least try to explain this more ?
And from this point, Rels disappears, never addresses Trfel's point and he never really answered any other questions as well. I'm curious to see his response when he comes back although I believe a strong case can be made against both Rels and Sulfurus as a team of Mafia.
I don't understand what are the clear points that make me mafia. Try to do like Trfel and summarize your points, because there is no clear points in your case. Seriously, I'm not saying it because I want to be mean; but your case is useless like that.
I will help you summarize it, so I can respond to it. If you don't agree with my summary, please rewrite your post with a summary. If I understood correctly your case is: 1 - When I first entered the thread, I directed the attention to passive posters. 2 - I tried to push a lynch on you, bat and geript at the same time. When that didn't work I tried to push a lynch on you. 3 - I pretended to be active 4 - I defended Sulfu 5 - I was not that engaged on geript's lynch. 6 - I didn't answer Trfel's case or questions directed at me.
Alright now that the summary is done, I can answer your case. I will answer again if my summary is false, don't hesitate rewriting your case if I misunderstood something. 1 - So what. 2 - Never tried to push the three of you. Just layed my thoughts. I also never tried to push a case on you. The "case" on you that you quoted is not a case but real interrogations I had about you. 3 - I never pretended to be active. But it's true I did almost no analysis since I started playing. So I can't defend against this point right now. Your opinion may change when I do analysis today. 4 - So what. 5 - Now that is your strongest point in your case. It is true, I wasn't that engaged on geript's lynch. The explanation for why is here:
On June 13 2015 19:02 Rels wrote: I read his filter and if we're voting BS for no quality post, geript's post are worse. Didn't find anything scummy per se, but there is the push on moosy for a weird reason ... and that's it. He doesn't even answer properly to questions.
WOS why did you stop voting him ?
I didn't find anything scummy per se in geript's filter. So my reasons for voting him were: - he didn't do anything - he didn't answer to questions 6 - That partially not true. I already answered Trfel's case before EOD. That's true I didn't answer any other questions. That point is now moot because I answered again to Trfel's case and answered any questions I saw.
On June 15 2015 05:44 MoosyDoosy wrote: As a note, I also doubt that Damdred is Mafia. Rels seemed perfectly fine with lynching him and even pointed out. I also saw little synergy between Damdred and the others as well.
I was not perfectly fine lynching Damdred. Please read this post.
On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: [...] Sulfurus has not made any posts where he is speaking directly to ruXxar OR rels. None. NONE! Nor has ruXxar made ANY posts where he is speaking directly to Sulfurus.
Rels has made only 1 post where he is speaking directly to Sulfurus, and has made 2 posts where he is speaking directly to ruXxar. ruXxar has made only 1 post where he is speaking directly to Rels, and that was a post where he is answering a question that Rels has posed to him.
But although these guys don't ever talk to each other, they talk ABOUT each other plenty. If you look through their respective filters, you'll find a LOT of instances where they are soft-defending each other, and giving each other slight town reads. Occasionally one of them will give one of the others a hard town read instead. Sometimes they talk about their willingness to vote against one of the others, but it NEVER actually happens. [...]
From noobkind wall of text. That is a super good point. Didn't remark that even though Sulfu defended me so hard, he never even talked to me. This is another point in my suspicions of him.
On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: [...] And it's a GOOD question. If Sulfurus is scum and trying to avoid the noose, why is he protecting this new potential target (Rels)? Well, one explanation that would make sense is: If Rels is ALSO scum. [...]
But this is convincing me that Sulfu is town even more. If Sulfu is mafia, there is no way he's defending me so hard, when, as noobking said, I'm a easy train de hop on and we're two likely candidates for lynch.
With this, even though noobking last will is to lynch Sulfu, I'm now convinced he's town.
On June 15 2015 07:04 MoosyDoosy wrote: ##vote Rels
Good job n00bKing you did well.
On June 15 2015 07:09 scott31337 wrote: What an awesome post, n00b. I haven't felt good about Sulf or Rels, and Rels didn't reply to anything, just went to sleep.
##Vote Rels
Hahaha that is so good (= I'm so happy to read these two posts. I think the two posters are scum. Here is why.
All the suspicions noobkind put on me start with the premise that Sulfu is town. He himself say to lynch Sulfu first, then IF Sulfu is mafia, to lynch ruxxar or me day 3. He also says than ruxxar would be a better lynch than me day 3. Don't believe me ?
On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: Sulfurus would be my top lynch on Day 2. If he flips Red, is it better to go after ruXxar or Rels next? That's tough. The ties between Sulfurus and ruXxar are definitely stronger than the ties between Sulfurus and Rels. But Rels is being read by more people as being generally scummy right now, so he might be the easier lynch, even if ruXxar could be the more logical lynch.
[...]
If Sulfurus flips Green, then it's back to the drawing board, to some extent. Hopefully that would mean a batsnacks scum team, and he's paired with either Moosy or damdred. But that case is tougher to make than Sulfurus/ruXxar/Rels.
So. Just after this post, noobking dies and here is what happens:
1 - moosy and scott both expressed good feelings about noobking's post. 2 - noobking's post say to lynch Sulfu day 2, and if he flips mafia, to lynch ruxxar and me, ruxxar being the stronger lynch 3 - moosy and scott vote me instead.
You know what is even funnier ? Let me quote this moosy post that happens just after his vote to me. Please read it carefully.
On June 15 2015 07:05 MoosyDoosy wrote: Alright guys, Rels first then Sulfurus. After that, we re-look over n00bKing's post then decide on the next person. I'm inclined to trust him though. That analysis was so good.
That "so good analysis" that moosy is talking about says to lynch Sulfu first, and that I'm not mafia unless Sulfu is too. But moosy wants to lynch me first. Then he wants to lynch Sulfu. And finally ruxxar.
I can see a scum agenda here. How ? Let's consider this timeline: 1 - we lynch Sulfu, he flips green 2 - if we follow noobking post, we're not lynching me nor ruxxar anymore. Conclusion: we only mislynched once.
moosy seems to be pushing for a better timeline for mafia: 1 - we lynch me, I flip green 2 - too bad! Let's follow noobking post again ... mm that's true he asked for sulfu's lynch first. 3 - we lynch sulfu, I flip green Conclusion: two mislynches
OK I said I didn't want to start analyzing before I finished answering any questions to me. So I'll continue reading the thread to see if there is any question left. Only then I will analyze people. But from what I see, scott and moosy and strong scumleans.
On June 15 2015 20:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Rels just did his go through the thread and reply to every single post thing again.
And in the end, I have no idea who he thinks is scum, only numerous townreads.
I'm not replying to every post. A lot of people has expressed the feeling that I didn't answer the cases and questions about me. So I replied to every posts attacking me and asking me something.
I will repeat: I will finish answering every post attacking me or asking me, and THEN I will analyze.
OK I feel dumb responding you like that ... 'cause I finished reading the whole thread and there is no more attack or questions to me. (=
So. If somehow I missed a case or a question, requote it. If anyone say I didn't answer something without quoting it, I will link him this post. If that person says it twice, he's probably scum.
Now it's time for some analyzis. I will read the filters of each players in the game and post an analyzis of him. For fun here is my mind before doing the filter diving:
Town Sulfurus Trfel WaveofShadow
Town lean ruxxar Damdred Oatsmaster batsnacks
Scum lean Kickstart
Scum moosy scott
Gonna afk 30 minutes to eat, then the analyzis will start. We'll see after that if the list has changed.
On June 15 2015 21:46 batsnacks wrote: Rels back up to the stuff I said n1. You said in your response just now that sulfu voting opportunistically is a point against him, and that is the reason you would have voted sulfu over me. The whole point of the case I made is that you said twice that sulfu voting opportunistically does not make him mafia, and is not a point against him, because he did the same thing last game d1 to SL and Breshke. After saying that twice, you switched to saying that sulfu voting me was opportunistic and it is points against him.
Is it unreasonable for me to think that your defense here actually re-enforces what I said?
I don't really understand what you are saying. I suppose you're saying that: 1- I said that one of the points against Sulfu is that his vote on you was opportunistic 2- You voted on Sulfu because his vote on you was opportunistic 3- I voted you because I felt your vote on Sulfu was bad 4- Therefore there is a contradition: I cannot be mad at you for voting Sulfu for reason X, when I admit reason X is something against Sulfu
On June 13 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel's case is still good but I'm now voting sulfur for misrepresenting my play last game (twice) and now voting me opportunistically.
##unvote ##vote Sulfurus
If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game. And I don't think he misreprented your plays. Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
After I slept, I re evaluated on this and agreed that Sulfu's vote was opportunistic and could be a point against him.
On June 13 2015 18:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Did you see the quality of those posts though. Cause in this game, there is quantity but practically no quality.
I agree. But quality is not the reason I'm unvoting him.
On June 13 2015 18:19 Oatsmaster wrote: I think it's pretty unlikely we have a PGO. Hey rels, what made you look through bats last few games? Also, who do you want to lynch now?
Just Bats seems like the easy target so I wanted to look at him more. The two posts I quote are statements he made to defend himself, so I wanted to see if he was lying to defend.
No idea who I want to lynch. Two of my three town reads are voting sulfurus. I'm suspicious of Sulfu for two reasons: - The "case" on KS on his first post doesn't exist - The vote on BS is opportunist
But to me he's playing the same as last game I played with him. So I don't know.
Two suspicious people are geript and Damdred. Reasons for Damdred are easy, he didn't anything, so it's so weak. I'm reading geript's filter right now.
Look at the timestamps if you doubt this story.
Now, I thought and still think Sulfu is town. I didn't say Sulfu's vote was opportunistic because I was suspecting him. I did so because:
I thought your reason for voting Sulfu was bad before going to sleep. After sleeping, I realized that your reason for voting Sulfu wasn't bad.
Voilà. What you say is true, I went back to my words. I re evaluated Sulfu's vote from townie to opportunistic. Doesn't mean I don't think he's town though.
Hehe sure. I'm still checking if new posts have come from times to times.
I'm suspicious of moosy and scott voting me over Sulfu and doing so while praising noobking's post. I'm also suspicious of them because even before reading their posts, they were the most likely mafia with kickstart in my mind.
I'm actually reading their filters right now, so I'll see if my suspicions are match by their posts.
Kickstart I think the guy is mafia for these reasons: 1. Lots of fluff and not a lot of analysis. I didn't believe that before rerading his filter but that is true: there is almost no analysis in it. 2. This case is super forced 4 hours into the game. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 11:16 Kickstart wrote: Here's something of a mini-case on why I am scum reading ruXxar atm.
First several posts he seems quite concerned about the scum team! Why is this. This doesn't seem to be normal new town player concerns to me.
On June 12 2015 07:26 ruXxar wrote: I actually believe in the right of individual freedom, so as long as the mafia just stick to themselves and don't hurt anyone, I don't mind having them around .
*slaps himself*
No, stop daydreaming ruxx!
Then there was his answering question slip which has been the topic of much debate. It is really weird because I said I don't like people answering questions directed at others, Trfel asks me why, and then ruxx answers -______-. I think a townie would read that and be wary of answering because they see me saying that answering for others is a bad thing. My take on it is that ruxx maybe saw an easy opportunity to seem helpful and didn't even pay attention to the interaction going on there.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
Another post which doesn't seem like a town mindset at all to me. Why would town try to defend lying. This seems like scum saying "lying is ok" but trying to make it seem like something town just does all the time too, it isn't, and this is scum mindset imo.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like liars? Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests. This goes for both sides. Deception is not a thing reserved only for mafia.
What you meant to say is that you don't like liars that have conflicting interests from you.
And yet another on the lying thing that I just don't see a townie making. This just stinks of scum mindset to me again.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
Scum lean.
What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement. I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.
So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
Wait....
So you are serious about your explanation for not answering a question directed at someone else, because it helps them answer the question if they are scum. But in saying this, you answered a question directed at someone else, your scum read?
This explanation is going to be good.
Yes my answer was serious.
I see now how that actually denied us information from kick start. It was a mistake on my part to actually answer that question.
Can you please clarify, why are you scumreading Kickstart?
I didn't like his statement about not liking liars.
This whole game is based on the concept of deception. If you don't like that aspect of the game, why are you here? You might claim that you like hunting lying mafia, But it's not a given beforehand what role you will be, so that doesn't make sense either.
I have no prior info about any of the players here, so he might have some personal conviction for why he said that, but to me it didn't seem like a genuine well thought through statement.
And here is a ton of WIFOM that is literally useless to town. Ended with a pointless question to me. Again to me it is just obvious why as town you don't like people to lie, I even explained a few times what I meant by the statement, so he is either not reading or pressing a nonsensical point.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
RuXxar provided a reasonable explanation for why it is bad to answer questions directed at other people. However, this explanation was an answer to my question directed at Kickstart. In this very post, he's doing why he says that this is bad.
He's confident enough to ignore any potential purpose that I had for this question, confident enough in Kickstart's alignment that he doesn't want to hear Kickstart's answer, but not confident enough to leave the post without stating that this is what he thinks, implying that he could be wrong.
2. The person he answered a question for is now his scumread + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
Scum lean.
What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement. I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.
So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
When he is questioned, ruxXar throws out a scum lean. However, he does this on Kickstart, the same player he just answered a question for.
Imagine that ruXxar is town. He sees Kickstart make a post, but doesn't try to look into his alignment. Then he sees me (Trfel) ask a question to Kickstart about that post, then immediately answers the question without stopping to realize that this is the same behavior criticized in his explanation (and he realizes that his play hurt town here). Only after answering my question to Kickstart does he bother to actually think about Kickstart's alignment.
I can't see this coming from a town mindset, from someone who is actually interested in determining people's alignments.
Furthermore, he hasn't made any alignment-related comments about anyone in the game other than Kickstart.
RuXxar is being contradictory, cautious, and is showing a mindset that isn't towny at all. He's not interested in thinking about people's alignments.
I beg to differ.
I've been leading an open and active discussion, answering and asking questions. If I was scum I would be very careful not to expose myself like that. I already admitted that I missed the logical inconsistency in answering kick starts question.
If I had been mafia then I would have been way more careful in considering my response and not make such an obvious error.
The only one that has made any statements that I don't understand / agree with so far is kick start. He's also dodged my question so far.
Liers means if you say you are going to do something but don't when it comes to forum mafia. Also good job breaking one of my rules,
He only explained what it means, not why he said it.
So @ kickstart.
Please explain why you don't like liars.
On its own this post isn't too bad but coupled with his general tone I think this just adds to it. A tell that a lot of new scum players fall for is proclaiming their inexperience. He does this a lot in his earlier posts in the way of justifying various things because of not knowing the game or the players, and in this post he does it again when it is needless imo. Saying I agree would have sufficed but for some reason he feels the need to proclaim his inexperience, something that everyone in the game knows.
On June 12 2015 08:24 ruXxar wrote: I'm not voting on anyone yet, it's way too early for that.
I'm gathering information to base my reads upon. I can only evaluate what I've read so far.
Putting pressure on people is also a good thing, not necessarily because you believe they are scum, but to see how they react in tense situations.
You're right, putting pressure on people can be a good thing, to see how they react.
That's why you're wrong, it is not too early to vote.
I agree.
As said, it's my first time playing mafia and I haven't been in many situations lately where i have to formulate sharp logical arguments.
I am usually forgiving to players I don't know or newer players, but to me there are so many things that seem scummy to me that I can't do that in ruXxars case.
Thoughts?
3. Posted a lot day 1 and left a good impression on everyone, then left. Came back multiple times with an excuse but didn't a whole lot and left again. Even worse, promised something and never did it. + Show Spoiler +
First time he came, he promised an analysis of bats filter that never came.
On June 13 2015 05:37 Kickstart wrote: Damn I went back to sleep and slept forever. 2 replacements already whata game. Still think ruXxar is slightly scummy but several people think he isn't so that's that. Sulfuris did come in and logic up his posts but that still leaves me baffled about his initial vote. If he is so concerned with the logic of his arguments and reads then how the hell did he make that post with that mindset. Seems like he did something scummy then tried to logic his way out. Seems the idea of a bats lynch is gathering steam. I actually thought his posting was weird but I have only played with him in 1 other game to go off of. I'll reread his filter at some point before EoD and see if I still get that impression.
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote: First of all I want to apologize for my lack of activity. It isn't fair to everyone that I am usually quite active and in this game I neglected to play for some time. I am town though. Secondly this end of cycle times is getting really stupid, please set a time and stick to it. I thought it was 21:00 originally then it was 1 hour earlier and now its 18:00.
Originally was suspicious mainly of ruxx and sulf. Sulf still scummy ruxx not so much. Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
4. This post seems forced to me too. It's about how he doesn't like noobking's posting. Not sure about that one though. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 16:38 Kickstart wrote: Eh got some beauty sleep so I'm a bit calmer, lets see how long that lasts. Don't like n00bKing's posting in general. First game here, very lectury. Goes out of his way to tell people not to post fluff, yet posts nothing in the way of reads.
@king Who are you suspicious of at the moment, who do you think could be scum?
5. His progression of his read on me is so bad. I think at least one of the people pushing me is doing so because I'm an easy mislynch. And I think kickstart is the most opportunistic person that came into my train. Here is his train of thought regarding me. Please read at least the last quote in the spoiler, it's hilarious as hell. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 16:53 Kickstart wrote: Either Rels is second smartest person in here behind me or he is trying real hard to pocket me D:. Everything hes posted has been in line with my thinking as well.
On June 13 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Wheres does scotts 'wouldn't lynch rels' read come from. U wot. Gosh i rly dont like list posts with no reasoning in them. Are me and rels suspicious to you but not enough to not vote and that is why we aren't in your 'like' list or what.
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote: First of all I want to apologize for my lack of activity. It isn't fair to everyone that I am usually quite active and in this game I neglected to play for some time. I am town though. Secondly this end of cycle times is getting really stupid, please set a time and stick to it. I thought it was 21:00 originally then it was 1 hour earlier and now its 18:00.
Originally was suspicious mainly of ruxx and sulf. Sulf still scummy ruxx not so much. Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
On June 15 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: meant to go ahead and vote.
##Vote Rels
On June 15 2015 07:34 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I don't agree with everything in noobs large post but I tend to agree that the most likely scum trio to me atm is sulf, ruxx, rels. And if one of them flips red it makes the other 2 look even scummier.
On June 15 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Maybe me being suspicious of all of them early day 1 will buy me some town cred???? I need some after being afk so long.
On June 15 2015 23:19 Rels wrote: Kickstart I think the guy is mafia for these reasons: 1. Lots of fluff and not a lot of analysis. I didn't believe that before rerading his filter but that is true: there is almost no analysis in it. 2. This case is super forced 4 hours into the game. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 11:16 Kickstart wrote: Here's something of a mini-case on why I am scum reading ruXxar atm.
First several posts he seems quite concerned about the scum team! Why is this. This doesn't seem to be normal new town player concerns to me.
On June 12 2015 07:26 ruXxar wrote: I actually believe in the right of individual freedom, so as long as the mafia just stick to themselves and don't hurt anyone, I don't mind having them around .
*slaps himself*
No, stop daydreaming ruxx!
Then there was his answering question slip which has been the topic of much debate. It is really weird because I said I don't like people answering questions directed at others, Trfel asks me why, and then ruxx answers -______-. I think a townie would read that and be wary of answering because they see me saying that answering for others is a bad thing. My take on it is that ruxx maybe saw an easy opportunity to seem helpful and didn't even pay attention to the interaction going on there.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
Another post which doesn't seem like a town mindset at all to me. Why would town try to defend lying. This seems like scum saying "lying is ok" but trying to make it seem like something town just does all the time too, it isn't, and this is scum mindset imo.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like liars? Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests. This goes for both sides. Deception is not a thing reserved only for mafia.
What you meant to say is that you don't like liars that have conflicting interests from you.
And yet another on the lying thing that I just don't see a townie making. This just stinks of scum mindset to me again.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
Scum lean.
What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement. I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.
So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
Wait....
So you are serious about your explanation for not answering a question directed at someone else, because it helps them answer the question if they are scum. But in saying this, you answered a question directed at someone else, your scum read?
This explanation is going to be good.
Yes my answer was serious.
I see now how that actually denied us information from kick start. It was a mistake on my part to actually answer that question.
Can you please clarify, why are you scumreading Kickstart?
I didn't like his statement about not liking liars.
This whole game is based on the concept of deception. If you don't like that aspect of the game, why are you here? You might claim that you like hunting lying mafia, But it's not a given beforehand what role you will be, so that doesn't make sense either.
I have no prior info about any of the players here, so he might have some personal conviction for why he said that, but to me it didn't seem like a genuine well thought through statement.
And here is a ton of WIFOM that is literally useless to town. Ended with a pointless question to me. Again to me it is just obvious why as town you don't like people to lie, I even explained a few times what I meant by the statement, so he is either not reading or pressing a nonsensical point.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
RuXxar provided a reasonable explanation for why it is bad to answer questions directed at other people. However, this explanation was an answer to my question directed at Kickstart. In this very post, he's doing why he says that this is bad.
He's confident enough to ignore any potential purpose that I had for this question, confident enough in Kickstart's alignment that he doesn't want to hear Kickstart's answer, but not confident enough to leave the post without stating that this is what he thinks, implying that he could be wrong.
2. The person he answered a question for is now his scumread + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
Scum lean.
What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement. I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.
So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
When he is questioned, ruxXar throws out a scum lean. However, he does this on Kickstart, the same player he just answered a question for.
Imagine that ruXxar is town. He sees Kickstart make a post, but doesn't try to look into his alignment. Then he sees me (Trfel) ask a question to Kickstart about that post, then immediately answers the question without stopping to realize that this is the same behavior criticized in his explanation (and he realizes that his play hurt town here). Only after answering my question to Kickstart does he bother to actually think about Kickstart's alignment.
I can't see this coming from a town mindset, from someone who is actually interested in determining people's alignments.
Furthermore, he hasn't made any alignment-related comments about anyone in the game other than Kickstart.
RuXxar is being contradictory, cautious, and is showing a mindset that isn't towny at all. He's not interested in thinking about people's alignments.
I beg to differ.
I've been leading an open and active discussion, answering and asking questions. If I was scum I would be very careful not to expose myself like that. I already admitted that I missed the logical inconsistency in answering kick starts question.
If I had been mafia then I would have been way more careful in considering my response and not make such an obvious error.
The only one that has made any statements that I don't understand / agree with so far is kick start. He's also dodged my question so far.
Liers means if you say you are going to do something but don't when it comes to forum mafia. Also good job breaking one of my rules,
He only explained what it means, not why he said it.
So @ kickstart.
Please explain why you don't like liars.
On its own this post isn't too bad but coupled with his general tone I think this just adds to it. A tell that a lot of new scum players fall for is proclaiming their inexperience. He does this a lot in his earlier posts in the way of justifying various things because of not knowing the game or the players, and in this post he does it again when it is needless imo. Saying I agree would have sufficed but for some reason he feels the need to proclaim his inexperience, something that everyone in the game knows.
On June 12 2015 08:24 ruXxar wrote: I'm not voting on anyone yet, it's way too early for that.
I'm gathering information to base my reads upon. I can only evaluate what I've read so far.
Putting pressure on people is also a good thing, not necessarily because you believe they are scum, but to see how they react in tense situations.
You're right, putting pressure on people can be a good thing, to see how they react.
That's why you're wrong, it is not too early to vote.
I agree.
As said, it's my first time playing mafia and I haven't been in many situations lately where i have to formulate sharp logical arguments.
I am usually forgiving to players I don't know or newer players, but to me there are so many things that seem scummy to me that I can't do that in ruXxars case.
Thoughts?
3. Posted a lot day 1 and left a good impression on everyone, then left. Came back multiple times with an excuse but didn't a whole lot and left again. Even worse, promised something and never did it. + Show Spoiler +
First time he came, he promised an analysis of bats filter that never came.
On June 13 2015 05:37 Kickstart wrote: Damn I went back to sleep and slept forever. 2 replacements already whata game. Still think ruXxar is slightly scummy but several people think he isn't so that's that. Sulfuris did come in and logic up his posts but that still leaves me baffled about his initial vote. If he is so concerned with the logic of his arguments and reads then how the hell did he make that post with that mindset. Seems like he did something scummy then tried to logic his way out. Seems the idea of a bats lynch is gathering steam. I actually thought his posting was weird but I have only played with him in 1 other game to go off of. I'll reread his filter at some point before EoD and see if I still get that impression.
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote: First of all I want to apologize for my lack of activity. It isn't fair to everyone that I am usually quite active and in this game I neglected to play for some time. I am town though. Secondly this end of cycle times is getting really stupid, please set a time and stick to it. I thought it was 21:00 originally then it was 1 hour earlier and now its 18:00.
Originally was suspicious mainly of ruxx and sulf. Sulf still scummy ruxx not so much. Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
4. This post seems forced to me too. It's about how he doesn't like noobking's posting. Not sure about that one though. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 16:38 Kickstart wrote: Eh got some beauty sleep so I'm a bit calmer, lets see how long that lasts. Don't like n00bKing's posting in general. First game here, very lectury. Goes out of his way to tell people not to post fluff, yet posts nothing in the way of reads.
@king Who are you suspicious of at the moment, who do you think could be scum?
5. His progression of his read on me is so bad. I think at least one of the people pushing me is doing so because I'm an easy mislynch. And I think kickstart is the most opportunistic person that came into my train. Here is his train of thought regarding me. Please read at least the last quote in the spoiler, it's hilarious as hell. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 16:53 Kickstart wrote: Either Rels is second smartest person in here behind me or he is trying real hard to pocket me D:. Everything hes posted has been in line with my thinking as well.
On June 13 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Wheres does scotts 'wouldn't lynch rels' read come from. U wot. Gosh i rly dont like list posts with no reasoning in them. Are me and rels suspicious to you but not enough to not vote and that is why we aren't in your 'like' list or what.
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote: First of all I want to apologize for my lack of activity. It isn't fair to everyone that I am usually quite active and in this game I neglected to play for some time. I am town though. Secondly this end of cycle times is getting really stupid, please set a time and stick to it. I thought it was 21:00 originally then it was 1 hour earlier and now its 18:00.
Originally was suspicious mainly of ruxx and sulf. Sulf still scummy ruxx not so much. Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
On June 15 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: meant to go ahead and vote.
##Vote Rels
On June 15 2015 07:34 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I don't agree with everything in noobs large post but I tend to agree that the most likely scum trio to me atm is sulf, ruxx, rels. And if one of them flips red it makes the other 2 look even scummier.
On June 15 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Maybe me being suspicious of all of them early day 1 will buy me some town cred???? I need some after being afk so long.
scott31337 I think scott is mafia for these reasons 1. You knew it was coming (= scott's predecessor, plants, had only one post, and that post was super bad. + Show Spoiler +
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
2. scott hoped on the "lynch Rels" train too easily for my taste. His only arguments were "Trfel's case is good" and "he didn't answer my question". Furthermore, the Trfel's case he's sheeping is not the initial one but a super bad one. Even noobking said so. See here for more info on case. In spoiler you'll find the evolution of scott's read on me. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 01:44 scott31337 wrote: Good day. I'm at page 16 - So far not liking N00bking for his wordy fluff - and Rels gets a slight townread (even if it's for calling out my replacement). KS and Oats feel are two townies angry at each other.
On June 12 2015 10:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway Trfel, what makes bats town?
I had a town lean on batsnacks due to the balance between his jokes and serious reads. Since then, batsnacks has been much more serious, and his jokes are few and far between, so this read isn't valid any more.
On June 12 2015 10:51 Oatsmaster wrote: NAI is a new thing lol.
I kinda like ruxxar. It was really funny that he answered a question not directed at him asking why people shouldnt answer questions not directed at them.
He doesnt do it intentionally to just create content IMO.
(bold added) So if he doesn't do it intentionally, then why is it towny?
On June 12 2015 15:03 n00bKing wrote: It's also worth noting that RuXx purposely furthered the conversation about Town players lying, AFTER he saw that some other players were reacting negatively to what he had said. If a Newbie scum player saw that what he had said was causing some raised eyebrows, he might clam up or change the subject, to get beyond the comment that had raised suspicion, and bury it. Instead, he challenges the people who expressed a contradictory viewpoint, which ensures that no readers who come along later will gloss over what he's said.
You could try to say that he didn't realize it was a controversial statement when he first made it. But even after it was clear to him (based on the posts of other players) that it was a controversial statement, he stuck to it, and called more attention to it. Again, I feel like this is boldness you would seldom see from an inexperienced scum player.
This point about ruXxar continuing to press the lying issue is good. I guess I judged ruXxar too early.
##unvote
On June 12 2015 16:35 Rels wrote: Hello everybody, GL HF!
I'll read the thread now and comment on things. See you soon.
I really don't like this post at all. Posting without having read the thread is useless, the only thing it helps with is making it look like you're doing more work that you actually are, and it detracts from scumhunting. But making a useless post after the investigation has already started is pathetic.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
Rels, what about ruXxar's post made you say this?
On June 13 2015 01:10 WaveofShadow wrote: I can't decide now if I think geript and bats could be scum together for this horribleness. Association cases = bad but I can't help it and I THINK it's probably not the case. One of them at least for sure though.
I have no idea why someone as experienced as WaveofShadow would share a potential association case while in the same post acknowledging that association cases are bad. Please explain.
On June 13 2015 01:44 scott31337 wrote: Good day. I'm at page 16 - So far not liking N00bking for his wordy fluff - and Rels gets a slight townread (even if it's for calling out my replacement). KS and Oats feel are two townies angry at each other.
Let me catch up with the rest and a through read.
Why does calling out the player with only one post, who needs to get replaced, make someone town? Especially because, if you are town, he called out the easiest player to pick on who happens to be confirmed town.
I really don't like batsnacks' response to the pressure on him. Batsnacks doesn't normally react like this, he's fine under pressure. In my first game playing with him, I tunneled him for basically all of Day 1 and Night 1, and he made a post telling people to stop arguing about useless things and read the case I had posted on him.
I need to read some filters, but batsnacks seems very active, concerned about his safety, but not providing actual content.
On June 13 2015 06:42 n00bKing wrote:
On June 13 2015 03:28 geript wrote:
On June 13 2015 03:25 batsnacks wrote: I don't know what geripts alignment is...
Clearly that guy is 3P.
I don't know what 3P means either.
Third party.
Let me rephrase this since I see what you are saying but I didn't type that properly. Rels made a case on my replacement slot that he believed in, and caught Plants in a "lie" - I saw him a slight town read for believing in his case. I meant more of (even if he is calling out my replacement slot).
On June 13 2015 07:29 scott31337 wrote: Who I'm liking so far -
Wave Trfel n00bKing Damdred Oats
Probably wouldn't lynch today - Rels Kickstart
Could Lynch - Batsnacks Geript MoosyDoosy Sulfurus RuXxar
On June 13 2015 07:37 scott31337 wrote: KS and Rels are playing a lot different then my last game with either of them, which makes me wonder.
What the fuck is that thing. Say how we played differently or don't say anything at all.
His next post is how he changed his reads on me. Just sheep the Trfel. Easy no effort would do again.
Rels is generally throwing around suspicions on everything. His townread on ruXxar changed after it was clear that the push on ruXxar wasn't going anywhere. He's scumreading people already being scumread by others, and multiple times he uses other people's posts to justify increasing his own suspicions of other people. + Show Spoiler [Examples] +
Criticizing MoosyDoosy's opening post (geript already did this) Suspicious of batsnacks (common suspicion), geript (WaveofShadow already said this), and MoosyDoosy (geript) Agrees with the suspicion I voiced on MoosyDoosy Immediately asked geript for his reason for being suspicious of scott31337, suddenly is more suspicious of him himself (see my previous post)
It seems like Rels is like a leaf in the wind, following thread sentiment, jumping on whatever works. He townreads people who are being townread already, he scumreads people who are being scumread, and only changes when the thread sentiment shifts.
The one major departure from this trend is when he townreads batsnacks. He did this before Damdred jumped in. This is a pretty big change in his read, and against the thread sentiment. However, I think that the way that Rels jumps on whatever suspicion is available every other time in the thread is quite telling.
I can get aboard this and feeling better then a Sulf lynch - you pulled a lot of work Trfel. You the man!
On June 15 2015 02:05 batsnacks wrote: n00bking you read a lot of newbie mafia X right? Who would you say your play style this game most closely resembles in that game?
That's a very unusual question. I guess I hadn't thought about it. Without going back to look at that thread, I guess I would say my play in this game is a closest match for...Rels, in that game? I remember often thinking that Breschke and Barakos were saying things that made me think they were Town. But they weren't always saying things that I had myself been thinking before they posted it. Rels was.
(P.S. I still can't believe you guys lynched Bill Murray over ninjabunnies. I was almost yelling at the screen, toward the end of that Phase. lol)
BM was a fine lynch he didn't do anything to prevent it and we had a green check on bunnies.
Your posting this game is very similar to boxerfred. He spent tons of effort speculating about roles instead of focusing on finding mafia and we all just gave him a pass because he was new and at least he was posting a lot.
I don't know if he read the mafia QT either, but it was all a ruse to get newbtowncred. This brings up a very good point.
So even in my question to rels (who has not answered yet) Sulfurus still hasn't posted anything. All there is are a couple posts on lynch Trfel (who I townread and is mostly townread at this time) so I'm doubtful this is going to happen. - so make a case or try again.
I'm down for a Sulf or a Rels lynch.
Where I'm at -
BS looks- okay? even if we was incorrect Damdred is trying to solve the game WoS and Trfel are up there as well, I like WoS list post. Oats has a little defensive attitude, but slight town also Kickstart just feels so much more different then his last game as town which makes me wonder about him n00bking is a slight town read but a lot of wordy fluff in his posts Moosy I'm still a toss up on Ruxxar - His bluehunting was terrible. I want to smack him in the head with a trout. Donkey town?
On June 15 2015 07:09 scott31337 wrote: What an awesome post, n00b. I haven't felt good about Sulf or Rels, and Rels didn't reply to anything, just went to sleep.
K so to begin with, Rels and Oats are the first two on. Circumstances: Rels - came up with sorta-novel reasons to vote Geript once I was already off of him. This is probably actually a point in his favour overall as it was probably easier to do so while I was on him (though then again maybe it's just because he wasn't on while all my shit with him was going down? meh. He also asks me why I stopped voting him) The vote itself isn't bad is what I'm saying here.
Oats - Just switched on to him with no exposition as I mentioned earlier. When asked his response was:
On June 14 2015 10:16 Oatsmaster wrote: WHat you want wave?
Geript flipped town. Sucks. Move on.
If you are asking why Geript as opposed to other people, basically what I explained earlier. He didn't post before I slept so yeah, that's where my read was.
On June 13 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm scum reading sulfurus because you are sleeping people onto bats, means you don't really tthink bats is mafia, but your town reads do so you value their opinion over yours.
Bats isn't gonna shit up the thread lol, that's an empty threat. I was totally right about geript switching off moose btw. I think geript is easily mafia.
This is believable actually, and he had a good reason to switch I suppose, I just didn't bother to look back initially when accusing him. This also fits with his 'more-likely-townplay' of switching reads around constantly.
Now comes the shitstorm. I'm fine with Bat's vote so I'm not going to bother here. Important to note though that he already has 3 people on him when Bats votes so scum can now see this is as a likely mislynch.
Trfel - First to jump on the wake of Bat's 'discovery.' Eh. On looking through I thought he was on Rels all day and then dropped his amazing case instantly in favor of even after this post:
On June 14 2015 04:14 Trfel wrote: Ugh, I just don't quite feel right about lynching geript or Damdred. They're both incredible players, and it's the weekend, so it's unfair to expect normal activity levels from them.
##vote Rels
But he was onto batsnacks as well at one point. It does kinda look as though he almost doesn't believe his own case at times because of his initial dropoff from Rels onto bats, then as bats lost ground back onto rels again and onto Geript. He does put a LOT of effort into his rels push when he is on him though so at the same time it seems doubtful that this is a half-assed push where he was just looking for an out. Not sold either on this one. Also liked his activity around the lynch and his first post after flip.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Bats...I am so proud of you
Interested to hear what bats himself thinks here of the people who sheeped him actually. I take it you were too excited it about your lynch at the time to see all of this going down?
Moosy - Fine with him. Has a monster filter, constant discussion of the lynch while it was going down.
Ruxxar - Ah, I remember pointing this one out before.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Wow bats... I'm speechless.
I had you and geript as my top two scum.
I refuse to believe that you would bus your own scum teammate this hard. You really redeemed yourself here in my eyes.
I'll have to change my alignment of you to town and change my vote to geript.
##Unvote batsnacks ##Vote geript
I also remember not liking his post after the flip. Just looks like he's making more excuses and feigning...something. Ugh I know I've been calling him town due to the moosy business but the more I watch those two the more I think SOMETHING has to be going on here. Ruxxar more likely scum than moosy by a huge factor.
Scott - Actually just ninjavoted. Didn't even say a thing about Geript. That's interesting. Ballsy for scum but apparently nobody picked up on it so far?
Personally thinking Damdred and Ruxxar come out looking the worst on geript train analysis. Both jump on after the train has begun to gather steam and help to push it past the crucial point (Damdred more so than even Ruxxar) But ruxxar's posting around it was pretty terrible while Damdred's is minimal and while not great, I COULD just see it coming from non-self-conscious town.
I'm kind of glad I did, when I came back to the thread the flip was already there. I could've got modkilled for failure to vote with the hour earlier confusion. Batsnacks case made sense at the time and I sheeped it.
was there any reason you didnt feel a need to post in the thread around that time?
Who are your scumreads now?
I did but indirectly. The flipped already happened - I went to re-evaluate.
Rels / Sulf / KS - I have asked multiple questions to Rels and he could care less answering mine or the others.
Sulf's filter as I've said before has a couple posts and then goes after Trfel
KS would be the least of the three, but his game is so much different then last game and he was town.
3. Small filter, that can be explained by the fact that he replaced in. But in his small filters, there is a lot of fluff. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 06:22 scott31337 wrote: I'm around if you have any questions.
On June 13 2015 08:04 scott31337 wrote: Rels I think you're required to revote after a replacement.
On June 14 2015 03:50 n00bKing wrote: Does knowing that there is only 1 mafia attack each Night change your position?
Knowing that there is only 1 kp, then i believe there is a case both for and against the PGO to reveal himself.
Here are my scenarios for and against :
For:
The PGO is a weak town player that might get cop checked. The PGO is one of the strongest town players and likely to be targeted by the medic.
Against:
A semi strong town player is the PGO, but he's not the strongest. Medic will most likely protect the perceived strongest town player. The mafia knowing this will go for some of the second strongest targets they know probably won't be saved by the medic. In this case it's beneficial for the PGO to not reveal himself.
That's pretty interesting, considering you had just said this:
ruXxar wrote: After reducing kill power to 1 I would agree that Carl revealing himself is a good play.
In my first post I was just taking into consideration that mafia with 1 kp perform 1 target action per night and that town has 2 with cop and medic. It wasn't until my last post that i thought about it more deeply and tried to figure out the real scenarios.
I'm also not used to mafia with more roles than mafia, cop, medic, vigilante and town. A lot of my thinking right now is automatically based around just having those roles in the game, since that's what i've had the most exposure to. I'm trying to rectify this.
You're moving in the opposite direction of what would make sense, though. You assumed the Town had only Cop and Doctor. And said that once the Mafia was down to 1kp, it makes sense for Carl to claim.
Now, nevermind the fact that a discussion OF the Carl role ALREADY destroys your notion that the Town only has Cop and Doctor as its non-vanilla roles.
When you add in Dr. Weird and Frylock as additional Town roles that could be killed by Carl (both of which would kill Carl at the same time!) it becomes way MORE obvious that Carl needs to claim. Instead, when you thought about it more, you start to see a case for and against him claiming? That doesn't make any sense. Please make sense.
My scenarios make sense in the isolated scope i presented.
I'm trying to make sense of the role listed posted on the first page but it's confusing me.
scum team - "Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday" context: + Show Spoiler +
Roleblocker - Cybernectic Ghost of Christmas Past from the Future: Every night, you may choose a player to roleblock, which will prevent them from performing actions and visits that night. The roleblocked player will be notified, even if s/he is vanilla. + Show Spoiler +
Rolecop -Happy Time Harry: Every night you may choose a player to role check. You will get a result saying what role they have.+ Show Spoiler +
Godfather - Ignignokt the mooninite: You return "town" to cop checks, as though you were a vanilla townie. + Show Spoiler +
Vigilante - rabbot: Once per game, at night, you may select a player to kill. That player is shot overnight and dies at the start of the next day. If your target was also shot by mafia, or was protected by a doctor or veteran status, your bullet is lost. If you were roleblocked, you don't use your bullet and can try againt he next night. + Show Spoiler +
Goon - plutionian (Emory and Ogelthorpe) + Show Spoiler +
Town Mad Hatter - Dr. Weird: You have 1 bomb. At night you can place that bomb on another player, or move the bomb. When you die, the bomb blows up killing them. If your target is lynched, your bomb is lost. If your target is shot, the bomb is returned to you. You win with the town.+ Show Spoiler +
Cop - Allen (Alien): Each night phase, you may choose a player to investigate. You will visit the player and receive "Town" or "Anti-town" as a result. Your results are guaranteed to be accurate. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
Veteran - Master Shake: You have a bulletproof vest that can absorb one bullet. This means you need to be shot twice in order to die: once to destroy the vest, once to kill you. If you are roleblocked, however, your bulletproof vest doesn't work that night. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
Vigilante - frylock: Once per game, at night, you may select a player to kill. That player is shot overnight and dies at the start of the next day. If your target was also shot by mafia, or was protected by a doctor or veteran status, your bullet is lost. If you were roleblocked, you don't use your bullet and can try againt he next night. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
Paranoid Gun Owner - Carl: The Paranoid Gun Owner passively (and involuntarily) kills anyone who targets it during the Night. You win with town.+ Show Spoiler +
Doctor - Neil: Every night, you may choose a player other than yourself to protect. You will visit the player, and if the mafia attempt to kill a player you are protecting on the same night, the kill will fail. Neither you nor the target will be notified if you prevent a kill. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
VT - Meatwad piece + Show Spoiler +
According to this, it's possible that the 3 mafia can have these roles:
Role blocker, rolecop, godfather, vigilante and goon.
Or does it mean that there are 3 mafia PLUS possibly 5 other roles that are not mafia, but win when mafia wins?
Please help me understand.
Your first sentence is correct - "it's possible that the 3 mafia can have these roles:
Role blocker, rolecop, godfather, vigilante and goon."
and It's usually going to be two roles and a goon, and one will probably be a roleblocker. But the hosts could have some crazy setup as well, you never know, this is just based on past TL mafia games.
On June 15 2015 05:50 ruXxar wrote: Here's some food for thought.
So far we have scum reads on 2 mafia, Rels and Sulfu. Both are newbies.
How likely do you think that all 3 mafia are in the newbie group? Would it not make sense that at least 1 mafia is part of the veteran group?
People who have played previous newbie games, what is usually the distribution of mafia on newbie/veteran side?
In theory it's RNG.
IX was all newbies until Holyflare replaced in.
4. Even more troubling than small filters with fluff posts, scott has a lot of his posts asking question. And he never did anything with the answer he got. Seriously, if scott asked you a question, look if he did anything with his answer. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 02:13 scott31337 wrote: You have three votes Bats, how do you feel about those people? (N00b, ruxxar, Oats)
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
On June 13 2015 08:24 Sulfurus wrote: To start off I think n00bKing is the towniest person in this game period. Almost all of his posts are there to benefit town with either advice or very good questioning and again I think his reasoning on ruXxar is spot on (and much better then what Kick has said). So fmpov this make ruXx look really good and bats/kick look terrible (ruxx has also done a lot since that looks really towny in my eyes whereas kick and bats haven't).
Moving on there is also the whole conflict between Wave and Geript caused by his shitty read on Moosy (which was sheeped by Bats even though geript himself has changed his mind). I think this interaction makes Wave look pretty good and bats once again doesn't however he has since changed his vote to Rels.
Speaking of which the reason he is even voting Rels is because of a read by Trfel (looking back he was also one of the first to push scum on ruXx).
So they may not be the strongest town reads on those I called town but I think you guys are right and bats really is playing differently this game.
##Vote: Batsnacks
So you have a couple townreads and read bats scum, is that correct?
Bats is showing himself a little more townie lately, would you agree or no?
On June 13 2015 08:24 Sulfurus wrote: To start off I think n00bKing is the towniest person in this game period. Almost all of his posts are there to benefit town with either advice or very good questioning and again I think his reasoning on ruXxar is spot on (and much better then what Kick has said). So fmpov this make ruXx look really good and bats/kick look terrible (ruxx has also done a lot since that looks really towny in my eyes whereas kick and bats haven't).
Moving on there is also the whole conflict between Wave and Geript caused by his shitty read on Moosy (which was sheeped by Bats even though geript himself has changed his mind). I think this interaction makes Wave look pretty good and bats once again doesn't however he has since changed his vote to Rels.
Speaking of which the reason he is even voting Rels is because of a read by Trfel (looking back he was also one of the first to push scum on ruXx).
So they may not be the strongest town reads on those I called town but I think you guys are right and bats really is playing differently this game.
##Vote: Batsnacks
So you have a couple townreads and read bats scum, is that correct?
Bats is showing himself a little more townie lately, would you agree or no?
Who would you like to lynch besides Bats?
What about batsnacks' posting is towny? Self-meta?
On June 13 2015 07:23 n00bKing wrote: I'm confused about why you expect people to think you're Town? Can you help with that?
Well you haven't given me anything that I haven't responded to and you haven't brought anything new to the ongoing case on me in a long time so... I'm just assuming that you stopped scum reading me and forgot to switch your vote. Or you haven't decided who to switch to yet.
Okay. Well nope, I continue to agree with you that you're a reasonably good lynch target for Day 1. Also, you're aware that the player you're voting against now was not anywhere on your "would lynch" list, an hour ago? Trfel really turned your whole world upside down that quickly?
Yes he did Trfel makes awesome cases. Also I made that list before I started reading filters. If you follow the thread you can verify that.
Do you think this is just a pocket or he is mafia?
On June 14 2015 09:49 scott31337 wrote: I want to re-read Sulf and Rels again among others.
On June 14 2015 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I quite like lynching Scot.
What would your reasons for this be?
5. That list post without any explanation. After I asked, he gave some one liners to explain each scum leans he has. His scum lean on ruxxar is not explained, given that he stated that he has a town lean on him before. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 07:29 scott31337 wrote: Who I'm liking so far -
Wave Trfel n00bKing Damdred Oats
Probably wouldn't lynch today - Rels Kickstart
Could Lynch - Batsnacks Geript MoosyDoosy Sulfurus RuXxar
On June 13 2015 08:40 Rels wrote: Alright scott I don't see your posts as scummy. Could you comment on this list post of yours:
On June 13 2015 07:29 scott31337 wrote: Who I'm liking so far -
Wave Trfel n00bKing Damdred Oats
Probably wouldn't lynch today - Rels Kickstart
Could Lynch - Batsnacks Geript MoosyDoosy Sulfurus RuXxar
Could you please add justifications for the "could lynch" nominees ?
Batsnacks - Been on the wagon most of the day and play is different then his normal town. His last few posts have been slightly better though so that's why I haven't voted him yet. Geript - Hasn't taken much of a stance - his list post wasn't that great - He's a good mafia player but really has a IDGAF mode this game so far. MoosyDoosy - pretty down the line middle - the "Sulfurus is the easiest to make a case" post, "wishy-washy" Sulfurus - has like four posts - unsure if he's legit AFK/IRL or just shitting the bed - and none of them were that great, and quick start vote. Probably leaning the most ATM RuXxar-3/4's of his thread is about liars and and the rest is pretty blah - Hopefully he'll show up tonight.
Before this list post, here is the only time he gives his opinion on ruxxar:
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: ^ Also Kickstart, I wouldn't read too much into ruXx's initial post where he's rambling about slapping/daydreaming about Mafia. It might have been from an attempt to identify himself as a non-aggressor to the Mafia so that when night time comes around, they don't kill him. If the game went on for longer, people would also suspect ruXx more giving the Mafia an easy kill. This actually happens a ton in real life Mafia but it's clear it's totally different online at this point.
Also, going back to his post where he "misses the interaction" which is right after his rambling, it's pretty clear that ruXx is not paying attention whatsoever. As a newbie he was probably just as excited as I was about remaining passive which is why he didn't notice the err in his post. Just the fact that it seems he has no idea whatsoever about what he's saying during his rambling just shows this too.
I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 12 2015 11:38 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yeah, the more I read of ruXx's initial posts, the more it seems he's thinking in terms of a real life Mafia game as well as tryharding a bit.
Him intercepting a question was him tryharding a basic read and him supporting lying is from a real life Mafia mindset since lying is much more common in real life.
The last two posts that you point out are kind of shady but even then they err on the side of newbie to online Mafia. Overall I wouldn't vote him just yet until we get more evidence.
Wow moosy.
I have to give you 5 stars for this read. It's like you're inside my head or something. I had goosebumps reading this since it was so spot on.
You are absolutely right that my only exposure to mafia has been through watching the TI qualifiers hub, and later watching all stars mafia on youtube.
I really wanted to emulate the dynamic of a live environment, and went in trying to actively counter some of the things i picked up that a mafia would do.
From watching those live mafia games I learned that the number 1 trait of a mafia is to be silent. They would bide their time and look for arguments to bandwagon onto, often avoid getting into heated arguments if possible, and when attacked they would try to deflect onto another person.
I admit I am very excited to go out playing my first mafia game, and overracted by claiming my role before day 1 post(I did not know that this was frowned upon).
Another thing that I learned is that it doesn't matter if you are mafia or not, as long as you contribute to try solving the case, then it's good to keep people around just in case they are town, because then in the largest portion of games they would be a boon to you as a town.
This is Rexxar's best post. The goosebumps part sounds so legitimate and would be extremely creative to fake from the posts he made earlier. Slight town read
6. This post. This is such a bad post. Either you say what's different or you don't say anything at all. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 07:37 scott31337 wrote: KS and Rels are playing a lot different then my last game with either of them, which makes me wonder.
7. Voted geript 40 minutes before the deadline, without ever referencing him before. In his lynch list, Sulfu was the scummier. Two hours before EOD, he said he would lynch me over Sulfu. + Show Spoiler +
Rels is generally throwing around suspicions on everything. His townread on ruXxar changed after it was clear that the push on ruXxar wasn't going anywhere. He's scumreading people already being scumread by others, and multiple times he uses other people's posts to justify increasing his own suspicions of other people. + Show Spoiler [Examples] +
Criticizing MoosyDoosy's opening post (geript already did this) Suspicious of batsnacks (common suspicion), geript (WaveofShadow already said this), and MoosyDoosy (geript) Agrees with the suspicion I voiced on MoosyDoosy Immediately asked geript for his reason for being suspicious of scott31337, suddenly is more suspicious of him himself (see my previous post)
It seems like Rels is like a leaf in the wind, following thread sentiment, jumping on whatever works. He townreads people who are being townread already, he scumreads people who are being scumread, and only changes when the thread sentiment shifts.
The one major departure from this trend is when he townreads batsnacks. He did this before Damdred jumped in. This is a pretty big change in his read, and against the thread sentiment. However, I think that the way that Rels jumps on whatever suspicion is available every other time in the thread is quite telling.
I can get aboard this and feeling better then a Sulf lynch - you pulled a lot of work Trfel. You the man!
K so to begin with, Rels and Oats are the first two on. Circumstances: Rels - came up with sorta-novel reasons to vote Geript once I was already off of him. This is probably actually a point in his favour overall as it was probably easier to do so while I was on him (though then again maybe it's just because he wasn't on while all my shit with him was going down? meh. He also asks me why I stopped voting him) The vote itself isn't bad is what I'm saying here.
Oats - Just switched on to him with no exposition as I mentioned earlier. When asked his response was:
On June 14 2015 10:16 Oatsmaster wrote: WHat you want wave?
Geript flipped town. Sucks. Move on.
If you are asking why Geript as opposed to other people, basically what I explained earlier. He didn't post before I slept so yeah, that's where my read was.
On June 13 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm scum reading sulfurus because you are sleeping people onto bats, means you don't really tthink bats is mafia, but your town reads do so you value their opinion over yours.
Bats isn't gonna shit up the thread lol, that's an empty threat. I was totally right about geript switching off moose btw. I think geript is easily mafia.
This is believable actually, and he had a good reason to switch I suppose, I just didn't bother to look back initially when accusing him. This also fits with his 'more-likely-townplay' of switching reads around constantly.
Now comes the shitstorm. I'm fine with Bat's vote so I'm not going to bother here. Important to note though that he already has 3 people on him when Bats votes so scum can now see this is as a likely mislynch.
Trfel - First to jump on the wake of Bat's 'discovery.' Eh. On looking through I thought he was on Rels all day and then dropped his amazing case instantly in favor of even after this post:
On June 14 2015 04:14 Trfel wrote: Ugh, I just don't quite feel right about lynching geript or Damdred. They're both incredible players, and it's the weekend, so it's unfair to expect normal activity levels from them.
##vote Rels
But he was onto batsnacks as well at one point. It does kinda look as though he almost doesn't believe his own case at times because of his initial dropoff from Rels onto bats, then as bats lost ground back onto rels again and onto Geript. He does put a LOT of effort into his rels push when he is on him though so at the same time it seems doubtful that this is a half-assed push where he was just looking for an out. Not sold either on this one. Also liked his activity around the lynch and his first post after flip.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Bats...I am so proud of you
Interested to hear what bats himself thinks here of the people who sheeped him actually. I take it you were too excited it about your lynch at the time to see all of this going down?
Moosy - Fine with him. Has a monster filter, constant discussion of the lynch while it was going down.
Ruxxar - Ah, I remember pointing this one out before.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Wow bats... I'm speechless.
I had you and geript as my top two scum.
I refuse to believe that you would bus your own scum teammate this hard. You really redeemed yourself here in my eyes.
I'll have to change my alignment of you to town and change my vote to geript.
##Unvote batsnacks ##Vote geript
I also remember not liking his post after the flip. Just looks like he's making more excuses and feigning...something. Ugh I know I've been calling him town due to the moosy business but the more I watch those two the more I think SOMETHING has to be going on here. Ruxxar more likely scum than moosy by a huge factor.
Scott - Actually just ninjavoted. Didn't even say a thing about Geript. That's interesting. Ballsy for scum but apparently nobody picked up on it so far?
Personally thinking Damdred and Ruxxar come out looking the worst on geript train analysis. Both jump on after the train has begun to gather steam and help to push it past the crucial point (Damdred more so than even Ruxxar) But ruxxar's posting around it was pretty terrible while Damdred's is minimal and while not great, I COULD just see it coming from non-self-conscious town.
I'm kind of glad I did, when I came back to the thread the flip was already there. I could've got modkilled for failure to vote with the hour earlier confusion. Batsnacks case made sense at the time and I sheeped it.
8. This post were I put the theory of moosy and scott being mafia for acclaiming noobking's super play, but not following his last will. This is kinda weak on its own, but in addition to the other points that theory makes sense. Conclusion: Mafia
I'm leaving work in 30 minutes so I don't have the time to finish a full analysis of moosy's filter, as it is pretty enormous. Didn't think these two posts on scott and on kickstart would take me that long.
Here is what I'm going to do: - In the time I have before going home, I'll analyse my hard town reads - I'll do the moosy analysis when I get home, so you can expect it in 3 hours max. For the other players that will take longer as I also have to take care of my sick GF. I'll definitely do everybody before sleeping though, so I'll have posted analysis on everyone in 9 hours max.
Here are some quicker analysis then KS' and scott's. Quicker 'cause I think these players are town.
Sulfurus
I think Sulfu is town for two reasons
1. Sulfu's play match his play on the newbie X game. Seriously, go read his filter on that game if you doubt that. 2. Sulfurus has been on a lot of pressure starting on the latter part of day 1. He could easily have been lynched. But he still hardefended me all game, even today where we are the two wagons. Noobking post pushed me even harder in this direction and I'm now sure Sulfu is town.
On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: [...] And it's a GOOD question. If Sulfurus is scum and trying to avoid the noose, why is he protecting this new potential target (Rels)? Well, one explanation that would make sense is: If Rels is ALSO scum. [...]
But this is convincing me that Sulfu is town even more. If Sulfu is mafia, there is no way he's defending me so hard, when, as noobking said, I'm a easy train de hop on and we're two likely candidates for lynch.
Conclusion : Town
Trfel Wow. His filter is so good. Every action is backed up by reasons. I'm not gonna quote or list reasons 'cause it's going to be quick. Initially, I thought the only suspicious thing about him was how he changed his scumreads so many times during the end of day 1. But reading his filter, every change of opinion is clearly explicated. From me, then batsnacks mafia, then batsnacks town, then geript mafia ... the way he thinks is very clear. I would very much like that he stopped on confirmation bias on me though. His initial reasons and BS reasons for suspecting me were good at the time, but then he went to evaluate a lot of my posts as mafia when there was no good reasons to. Talking about this and this. Conclusion: Town
WaveofShadow This guy is so universally read as town that that's going to be super quick too. To be short: - we can see his train of thought super easily - he's pressuring people with good questions - he's not jumping on my train even though it was so easy to do so at the start of day 2 Conclusion: Town
ruxxar I think he's town because: 1. Post his thought very clearly on the thread. 2. I cannot see a mafia making this post. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: ^ Also Kickstart, I wouldn't read too much into ruXx's initial post where he's rambling about slapping/daydreaming about Mafia. It might have been from an attempt to identify himself as a non-aggressor to the Mafia so that when night time comes around, they don't kill him. If the game went on for longer, people would also suspect ruXx more giving the Mafia an easy kill. This actually happens a ton in real life Mafia but it's clear it's totally different online at this point.
Also, going back to his post where he "misses the interaction" which is right after his rambling, it's pretty clear that ruXx is not paying attention whatsoever. As a newbie he was probably just as excited as I was about remaining passive which is why he didn't notice the err in his post. Just the fact that it seems he has no idea whatsoever about what he's saying during his rambling just shows this too.
I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 12 2015 11:38 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yeah, the more I read of ruXx's initial posts, the more it seems he's thinking in terms of a real life Mafia game as well as tryharding a bit.
Him intercepting a question was him tryharding a basic read and him supporting lying is from a real life Mafia mindset since lying is much more common in real life.
The last two posts that you point out are kind of shady but even then they err on the side of newbie to online Mafia. Overall I wouldn't vote him just yet until we get more evidence.
Wow moosy.
I have to give you 5 stars for this read. It's like you're inside my head or something. I had goosebumps reading this since it was so spot on.
You are absolutely right that my only exposure to mafia has been through watching the TI qualifiers hub, and later watching all stars mafia on youtube.
I really wanted to emulate the dynamic of a live environment, and went in trying to actively counter some of the things i picked up that a mafia would do.
From watching those live mafia games I learned that the number 1 trait of a mafia is to be silent. They would bide their time and look for arguments to bandwagon onto, often avoid getting into heated arguments if possible, and when attacked they would try to deflect onto another person.
I admit I am very excited to go out playing my first mafia game, and overracted by claiming my role before day 1 post(I did not know that this was frowned upon).
Another thing that I learned is that it doesn't matter if you are mafia or not, as long as you contribute to try solving the case, then it's good to keep people around just in case they are town, because then in the largest portion of games they would be a boon to you as a town.
3. Tried to solve the game with arguments I understand and post questions. + Show Spoiler +
I'll leave this post as example of solving.
On June 13 2015 23:03 ruXxar wrote: I'm trying to figure out why people are scumreading sulfurus.
I read through his filter and I found nothing to make me read him as either alignment. I went through the voting history to see who voted for him. The kickstart vote was too early to judge for me, so I ignored it. The next one to vote is geript.
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
people should be talking about this.
He pointed out that since noone jumped on moosy for this post, then moosy is mafia. This makes no sense to me. To me that post is filled with genuine excitement from a newbie. Seeing as I'm a newbie too i understand all to well how he must've felt in his early posts.
On June 13 2015 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Geript I don't understand how you go from seemingly town-->scum-->town on moosy without any real change in anything he has done. Not following thought processes with you at all, though I think that actually might be standard for you and it annoys me.
Never assumed he was town to start w/ babycakes. Moreso: 1. Moosy makes a god awful post --> I think he's scum 2. No one pushes Moosy --> If he's town I'd expect someone to have jumped on him therefore scum 3. Posts a shit ton --> Probably just nubian with bad opening and mafia afk or otherwise engaged
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
Did you look at this post at all?
He's commenting about things that don't really matter in a way that he's seemingly had some interesting thought on it. He asks a question that's essentially a statement. He meanders through potentially interesting topics while giving no opinion on anything. Then he plays the dumbtell card.
It's a big post that literally offers nothing while commenting on things in a way that confer a formed opinion. It almost can be boiled down to: "I've been thinking about this game, but I won't really comment on it at all. What do you guys think about this random stuff?" I don't see even newer town players do that often.
Then he gets into an argument with waveofshadow who also picks up on his inconsistency in alignment on moosy.
I can't see his reasoning for voting on sulfurous. Basically he said 2 things about sulfurous:
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
On June 13 2015 04:37 Sulfurus wrote: @geript That's good that you no longer scum read Moosy but Bats hasn't made the same realization you have and you townread two of the people voting on him. So what do you think of him?
I'd rather lynch you.
Then kickstart says this which aligns with my own thinking.
On June 13 2015 06:03 Kickstart wrote: Went through geript's filter. His move off moosy and onto sulfurus was weird to me. He just said "id rather lynch you" in this thread, then voted in the other thread, and hasn't mentioned it at all. strange.
This give me a townlean on kickstart.
I still think bats is our best lynch for day 1, but geript has raised a red flag for me. I want to know why he's voting for sulfurus.
BUT one point against him: I find extremely weird that he spends so many post wondering about blues, cops, if moosy is doctor, setups. It creates length of filter for no info at all + Show Spoiler +
I'm very disappointed that the night actually started 1 hour earlier than expected. It didn't give me enough time to analyze batsnacks accusation even though it made sense when he posted it. I can't tell you his reasons for doing so, but it felt like such an improvised and irregular post that I don't know what to make of it. All game I had him as scum, and suddenly he makes this one move which totally breaks with his character so far. I can't help but feel like i've been fooled. I want to say that I should've stuck to my gut feeling and not be swayed so easily.
If I disregard that one action of his, then batsnacks is still my top scumread.
After reading all the filters again I also get a bad vibe off moosy. I had you as a town read early on since you so accurately read me with the IRL mafia association and came from the point of view as a newbie, but somehow I feel like that has blinded me from looking at the overarching lines of your play.
-Pulls the noob card a lot, too much imo. I can't excuse that you thought there were only 2 mafia in the game, nor that you missed that geript flipped. Missing that geript flipped as town has nothing to do with being a newb, but seems to me that you're trying to ride that excuse for a lot of things.
-Indecisive, passive play, says he wants to be careful with his vote. A lot of his comments are just very superficial questions which he backs off very easily. Almost like he's trying to pretend like he's helping but not really. He makes it seem like he's contributing by asking players their opinions, but makes no hard accusations of his own. The only time he follows an accusation is when other people already started a wagon. Wants other people to make a case for him:
On June 13 2015 05:52 MoosyDoosy wrote: Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
On June 14 2015 05:53 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 14 2015 05:51 n00bKing wrote: The last couple of hours are such a disappointment. Had 6 votes on one player and 5 on another. Now there are 4 different players with at least 3 votes on them, none of which have more than a 1-vote lead on any other. Who wants to post a trainwreck pic?
Do you seriously not think geript is Mafia at this point?
Trying to misrepresent what geript actually said(he said that the post about his slip was dumb, not the post he himself made was dumb).
On June 14 2015 06:09 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 14 2015 06:06 n00bKing wrote:
On June 14 2015 05:38 batsnacks wrote: Here is geript saying he will sheep Trfel's amazing case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 04:54 geript wrote: Actually, I think I'm going to sheep too.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
How is any of that supposed to be difficult to explain? Geript has at times thought Sulfurus looked scummy. And he has at times thought Rels looked scummy. Most recently, his vote has been on Rels, so that is presumably his top scum read.
You ask geript why Sulfurus would defend Rels if Sulfurus were scum. geript at this point participates in a discussion that PRE-ASSUMES Sulfurus is scum. And he hypothesizes that Sulfurus could be defending a Town player poorly. This would require him to be wrong about Rels being scum. I see nothing wrong with geript acknowledging the possibility that he could be wrong about Rels being scum, and answering a hypothetical question about why Sulfurus would act as he has if HE were scum.
This is almost as hollow as the reasoning Trfel used against Rels. Not quite as hollow. But almost.
That's a lot of assumptions about what geript is thinking which he can only explain. His initial reaction afterwards leads us to believe it was a slip on his part and that the above wasn't what he was thinking. He said it was one of his dumbest posts ever which leads us to believe that he did still think that Rels + Sulfurus was scum at that moment and he contradicted himself there. So getrip kinda just killed your argument there by himself.
Then he posts this gem:
On June 14 2015 06:02 MoosyDoosy wrote: I think the better thing to discuss in terms of roles now that we're all voting for geript is finding who the doctors should save for night time.
I'm trying to imagine a world where moosy and bat are mafia together. It seems possible.
There's more points to be made about moosy which some people have already made, including n00bking and rels. For now Moosy is climbing up as my #2 scum after bat.
Alright ruXxar, let's dance this dance of death.
1. Pulling the noob card I mean, what can I say? This is completely my fault for not reading things correctly and I realize it more than anyone else. However, if you look at the posts I make cluelessly, you can see that I'm still genuinely attempting to help. - When I bring up the possibility of 2 Mafia, I'm trying to expand our thought process in case there is more than 1 Mafia. After all, it's a terrible idea to have a confined mindset. Also, a nitpick with this point of yours. If you say that me suggesting there's 2 Mafia is "inexcusable" that's more of an accusation of bad play and not scum-oriented behavior. - geript flipped as town. Okay, try and follow me here. IF we didn't know that geript was flipped, then my thought process was clear here. IF geript was a Mafia, then his two suspects in Sulfurus and Rels can't be Mafia as well unless he was busing them. Which was unfortunate because Sulfurus and Rels were also our top suspects for Mafia. IF geript was a townie which seems more likely due to the above scenario, we screwed up big time. That's what my thought process was but it turns out geript flipped which means we screwed up. - Also, I do try and read stuff but some of it just doesn't end up in my brain. If you recall ruXxar, I did point out that we can ask questions in green text which at least displays some reading comprehension. You might want to point that out to show that I haven't completely been pulling out the noob card in every sentence I use.
2. Indecisive, passive play - Your example where I'm suggesting either Sulfurus or geript to batsnacks is a terrible one. I believe I said it somewhere else before, but it was an attempt for me to set bait. If batsnacks does try to defend himself with either of my suggestions or just makes a good case in general, that means he's town. If he doesn't try, he's scum. In the end, I'd still say I think he's town because he's genuinely been trying to defend himself and used geript as a way out. - Also, expand more on this if you're going to make it a point. You can't just nitpick things like you did with point #1 too. If we're talking about indecisiveness, cover how I don't really want to place a vote, I come into the thread passive, and I'm generally terrible at pressuring people. If you count all these things in, I'm pretty sure anyone can see that I have a passive playstyle. If you hate my playstyle, sure go for it and make a case off of my passivity, but don't nitpick stuff just to support your own argument. - Also, I won't answer your other quotes because those are totally irrelevant when looked at in context.
3. Asking about pr roles - Hm...I can see why you think a Mafia would post that. But don't worry, there was a reason behind that post. If you still want to pressure me on this, feel free to do so as I can't adequately defend myself on this one unless I wish to ruin the game.
Overall? Stop nitpicking stuff bro. Your argument was decent, but your evidence was weak. If you're going to try and kill a townie, you should work harder.
The bold part makes me think you have a power role...
Actually, I don't just think so, it seems like very strong evidence for a power role.
I'm curious if you actually are the medic.
On June 15 2015 05:50 ruXxar wrote: Here's some food for thought.
So far we have scum reads on 2 mafia, Rels and Sulfu. Both are newbies.
How likely do you think that all 3 mafia are in the newbie group? Would it not make sense that at least 1 mafia is part of the veteran group?
People who have played previous newbie games, what is usually the distribution of mafia on newbie/veteran side?
I think this guy is town. But the enormous amount of posts him discussing setups, blues, mafia teams ... is offsetting me a little bit. I rushed to finish this case so I didn't quote every post where he does that in the spoiler, but there is more. Conclusion: Town lean
On June 15 2015 07:04 MoosyDoosy wrote: ##vote Rels
Good job n00bKing you did well.
On June 15 2015 07:09 scott31337 wrote: What an awesome post, n00b. I haven't felt good about Sulf or Rels, and Rels didn't reply to anything, just went to sleep.
##Vote Rels
Hahaha that is so good (= I'm so happy to read these two posts. I think the two posters are scum. Here is why.
All the suspicions noobkind put on me start with the premise that Sulfu is town. He himself say to lynch Sulfu first, then IF Sulfu is mafia, to lynch ruxxar or me day 3. He also says than ruxxar would be a better lynch than me day 3. Don't believe me ?
On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: Sulfurus would be my top lynch on Day 2. If he flips Red, is it better to go after ruXxar or Rels next? That's tough. The ties between Sulfurus and ruXxar are definitely stronger than the ties between Sulfurus and Rels. But Rels is being read by more people as being generally scummy right now, so he might be the easier lynch, even if ruXxar could be the more logical lynch.
[...]
If Sulfurus flips Green, then it's back to the drawing board, to some extent. Hopefully that would mean a batsnacks scum team, and he's paired with either Moosy or damdred. But that case is tougher to make than Sulfurus/ruXxar/Rels.
So. Just after this post, noobking dies and here is what happens:
1 - moosy and scott both expressed good feelings about noobking's post. 2 - noobking's post say to lynch Sulfu day 2, and if he flips mafia, to lynch ruxxar and me, ruxxar being the stronger lynch 3 - moosy and scott vote me instead.
You know what is even funnier ? Let me quote this moosy post that happens just after his vote to me. Please read it carefully.
On June 15 2015 07:05 MoosyDoosy wrote: Alright guys, Rels first then Sulfurus. After that, we re-look over n00bKing's post then decide on the next person. I'm inclined to trust him though. That analysis was so good.
That "so good analysis" that moosy is talking about says to lynch Sulfu first, and that I'm not mafia unless Sulfu is too. But moosy wants to lynch me first. Then he wants to lynch Sulfu. And finally ruxxar.
I can see a scum agenda here. How ? Let's consider this timeline: 1 - we lynch Sulfu, he flips green 2 - if we follow noobking post, we're not lynching me nor ruxxar anymore. Conclusion: we only mislynched once.
moosy seems to be pushing for a better timeline for mafia: 1 - we lynch me, I flip green 2 - too bad! Let's follow noobking post again ... mm that's true he asked for sulfu's lynch first. 3 - we lynch sulfu, I flip green Conclusion: two mislynches
Yeh, again, that wasn't my intention. The reason why I voted to lynch you first was because there were already arguments from me, Trfel, batsnacks, and now n00bKing. Comparatively, no one really made any cases against Sulfurus which is why I felt it would be safer to be lynching you.
Alright I can accept this explanation. I responded all the cases you mentioned, did that change your read on me ?
The thing about linking your cases to noobking's is still a little, little bit scummy. Obviously it's weak so nobody will lynch you for only this.
On June 15 2015 07:04 MoosyDoosy wrote: ##vote Rels
Good job n00bKing you did well.
On June 15 2015 07:09 scott31337 wrote: What an awesome post, n00b. I haven't felt good about Sulf or Rels, and Rels didn't reply to anything, just went to sleep.
##Vote Rels
Hahaha that is so good (= I'm so happy to read these two posts. I think the two posters are scum. Here is why.
All the suspicions noobkind put on me start with the premise that Sulfu is town. He himself say to lynch Sulfu first, then IF Sulfu is mafia, to lynch ruxxar or me day 3. He also says than ruxxar would be a better lynch than me day 3. Don't believe me ?
On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: Sulfurus would be my top lynch on Day 2. If he flips Red, is it better to go after ruXxar or Rels next? That's tough. The ties between Sulfurus and ruXxar are definitely stronger than the ties between Sulfurus and Rels. But Rels is being read by more people as being generally scummy right now, so he might be the easier lynch, even if ruXxar could be the more logical lynch.
[...]
If Sulfurus flips Green, then it's back to the drawing board, to some extent. Hopefully that would mean a batsnacks scum team, and he's paired with either Moosy or damdred. But that case is tougher to make than Sulfurus/ruXxar/Rels.
So. Just after this post, noobking dies and here is what happens:
1 - moosy and scott both expressed good feelings about noobking's post. 2 - noobking's post say to lynch Sulfu day 2, and if he flips mafia, to lynch ruxxar and me, ruxxar being the stronger lynch 3 - moosy and scott vote me instead.
You know what is even funnier ? Let me quote this moosy post that happens just after his vote to me. Please read it carefully.
On June 15 2015 07:05 MoosyDoosy wrote: Alright guys, Rels first then Sulfurus. After that, we re-look over n00bKing's post then decide on the next person. I'm inclined to trust him though. That analysis was so good.
That "so good analysis" that moosy is talking about says to lynch Sulfu first, and that I'm not mafia unless Sulfu is too. But moosy wants to lynch me first. Then he wants to lynch Sulfu. And finally ruxxar.
I can see a scum agenda here. How ? Let's consider this timeline: 1 - we lynch Sulfu, he flips green 2 - if we follow noobking post, we're not lynching me nor ruxxar anymore. Conclusion: we only mislynched once.
moosy seems to be pushing for a better timeline for mafia: 1 - we lynch me, I flip green 2 - too bad! Let's follow noobking post again ... mm that's true he asked for sulfu's lynch first. 3 - we lynch sulfu, I flip green Conclusion: two mislynches
Yeh, again, that wasn't my intention. The reason why I voted to lynch you first was because there were already arguments from me, Trfel, batsnacks, and now n00bKing. Comparatively, no one really made any cases against Sulfurus which is why I felt it would be safer to be lynching you.
Alright I can accept this explanation. I responded all the cases you mentioned, did that change your read on me ?
The thing about linking your cases to noobking's is still a little, little bit scummy. Obviously it's weak so nobody will lynch you for only this.
If anything, linking my cases to n00bKing's is the opposite of scummy considering that he turned out to be VT as well. Since it seems that no one exactly wants to immediately chop off my head, I'll go back and re-read over everything carefully.
Now that you just admitted that your case and noobking's were different, I find it more opportunistic than good. That's why I called it a small scum hint.
On June 15 2015 07:04 MoosyDoosy wrote: ##vote Rels
Good job n00bKing you did well.
On June 15 2015 07:09 scott31337 wrote: What an awesome post, n00b. I haven't felt good about Sulf or Rels, and Rels didn't reply to anything, just went to sleep.
##Vote Rels
Hahaha that is so good (= I'm so happy to read these two posts. I think the two posters are scum. Here is why.
All the suspicions noobkind put on me start with the premise that Sulfu is town. He himself say to lynch Sulfu first, then IF Sulfu is mafia, to lynch ruxxar or me day 3. He also says than ruxxar would be a better lynch than me day 3. Don't believe me ?
On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: Sulfurus would be my top lynch on Day 2. If he flips Red, is it better to go after ruXxar or Rels next? That's tough. The ties between Sulfurus and ruXxar are definitely stronger than the ties between Sulfurus and Rels. But Rels is being read by more people as being generally scummy right now, so he might be the easier lynch, even if ruXxar could be the more logical lynch.
[...]
If Sulfurus flips Green, then it's back to the drawing board, to some extent. Hopefully that would mean a batsnacks scum team, and he's paired with either Moosy or damdred. But that case is tougher to make than Sulfurus/ruXxar/Rels.
So. Just after this post, noobking dies and here is what happens:
1 - moosy and scott both expressed good feelings about noobking's post. 2 - noobking's post say to lynch Sulfu day 2, and if he flips mafia, to lynch ruxxar and me, ruxxar being the stronger lynch 3 - moosy and scott vote me instead.
You know what is even funnier ? Let me quote this moosy post that happens just after his vote to me. Please read it carefully.
On June 15 2015 07:05 MoosyDoosy wrote: Alright guys, Rels first then Sulfurus. After that, we re-look over n00bKing's post then decide on the next person. I'm inclined to trust him though. That analysis was so good.
That "so good analysis" that moosy is talking about says to lynch Sulfu first, and that I'm not mafia unless Sulfu is too. But moosy wants to lynch me first. Then he wants to lynch Sulfu. And finally ruxxar.
I can see a scum agenda here. How ? Let's consider this timeline: 1 - we lynch Sulfu, he flips green 2 - if we follow noobking post, we're not lynching me nor ruxxar anymore. Conclusion: we only mislynched once.
moosy seems to be pushing for a better timeline for mafia: 1 - we lynch me, I flip green 2 - too bad! Let's follow noobking post again ... mm that's true he asked for sulfu's lynch first. 3 - we lynch sulfu, I flip green Conclusion: two mislynches
Yeh, again, that wasn't my intention. The reason why I voted to lynch you first was because there were already arguments from me, Trfel, batsnacks, and now n00bKing. Comparatively, no one really made any cases against Sulfurus which is why I felt it would be safer to be lynching you.
Alright I can accept this explanation. I responded all the cases you mentioned, did that change your read on me ?
The thing about linking your cases to noobking's is still a little, little bit scummy. Obviously it's weak so nobody will lynch you for only this.
If anything, linking my cases to n00bKing's is the opposite of scummy considering that he turned out to be VT as well. Since it seems that no one exactly wants to immediately chop off my head, I'll go back and re-read over everything carefully.
Now that you just admitted that your case and noobking's were different, I find it more opportunistic than good. That's why I called it a small scum hint.
Where did I say mine and n00bKing's cases were different? I was just saying that if you're linking mine and n00bKing's cases together, it would only show that I'm not scum because n00bKing turned out to be VT.
I'm not linking your case to noobking's. You did it yourself.
On June 16 2015 02:22 MoosyDoosy wrote: [...] I also admit, I was a bit excited over the fact that we caught Mafia which is why I linked mine, n00bKing's, and batsnack's arguments to Kickstart, since it seemed that he was wondering what had gone down over the course of the thread. And if anything else, arguments against a certain Mafia is the most important part of the game.
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
2. He refers himself as a newbie several times. Not as much as I thought day 1, but there is still a number of times he does it. In addition, he either dumbtells a few times and didn't read the OP carefully. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: [...] I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 13 2015 02:08 scott31337 wrote: Geript has four posts and very little content. I know he's good as mafia - but on the scum side of null for now.
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
Is this a dumbtell and didn't read the OP? Did he read boxerfred's last game and took all his ideas (Ie I'll act like I'm so newb everybody will just read me over for a few days)
On June 13 2015 00:58 MoosyDoosy wrote: What I want to do is find out why geript stopped posting after WaveofShadow had a scumread on him.
@batsnacks, I mean, I'm pretty sure I made it clear I was a town but sure, go ahead and waste your vote.
I sure am not seeing this "I made it clear". "Go ahead and waste your vote" is a very interesting way to word a vote on you if you are town.
On June 12 2015 22:54 batsnacks wrote: I think I'm going to sheep geript now he was making sense about moose.
##unvote ##vote moosygoosy
On June 12 2015 10:27 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
people should be talking about this.
Making sense? He quoted one post and said talk about this.
I like Oat's post about "N00bking" looking townie since didn't stop his advice posting even when people stopped him - that makes a lot of sense.
Bats and Geript bussing Moose? looks like the most logical conclusion I see at this time.
## Batsnacks / Geript / MoosyDoosy but that would be too ez.
But not liking Batsnacks.
Anyone have any questions or want to point out things I may have missed?
Ok, let's get this straight. As I said multiple times before, I'm new to TL and online Mafia. Either way, I'll address your points.
1. You say geript is a good Mafia from previous games and he's too obvious here leading to the conclusion he's not Mafia. If that's the case, how would you expect me to know that? I've never played TL Mafia before and never played with geript so I wouldn't know. 2. All I know about boxerfred is from his post here where he said he couldn't play and from his lack of posts. I don't even know what games he was previously in. The only person I know is Trfel who goes on Bnet forums from time to time which is where I commonly post. 3. I don't see how "Go ahead and waste your vote" is weird. I'm clearly a town so I don't see why batsnacks would vote for me. 4. I already explained why I worded my first post in my first Mafia game in the way I did. I've obviously seen why that's a bad thing to do (Mafia will find a way to point it out and lynch me) so I'm obviously not going to do that in the future.
Is there anything else?
1. I was not saying either way - but Geript is a good mafia player.Is he AFK or uninterested or mafia or both? That's what we're trying to figure out. If you have free time and would like, the TL Mafia Database has a listing of peoples games here and links.
2. I'll rephrase - Boxerfred posted a lot of newbie/dumb questions and skated on this for a few days until people got suspicious of him. It was a ruse. You have read the whole OP (first post) now right? You know what roles CAN be in the game?
3. You just said it again. "I'm clearly a town" - if you say it enough I'll start to believe it? People who keep saying lines like this irk me. "The Most Basic Form of Mind Control is Repetition"
4. Fair enough point, thank you.
scott, bottom line is that most of your reasoning is based on the belief that I'll know how others play or how to play. And what I keep saying is that I'm new to online Mafia and don't know how to play or how others play.
There are 3 Mafia and 2 town roles. I believe that reducing kill power from 2 to 1 is the single most important factor in us winning the game. This would buy us so much time that we should have overwhelming odds of winning. The chance of targeting Carl is very low.
I'm ok with taking the odds of a power role checking Carl if it means we increase our chances of killing mafia.
Does knowing that there is only 1 mafia attack each Night change your position?
Also, where are you getting that there are "2 town roles?" I see absolutely nothing that would indicate there are 8 VTs and 2 non-Vanilla Town roles, if that is what you are saying.
Sorry for this newbie question which I should have asked earlier but which slipped my mind because I had to do something else. What's a Carl?
3. WIFOM point: 3 hours before noobking was killed, moosy did two posts to say noobking was town. Could be he knew that noobking was going to be confirmed town, and wanted the towncred of listing as town before he died. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:47 MoosyDoosy wrote: Nah, I think n00bKing's a townie. He's been decent at pressuring people although he's pretty bossy and gives way too much advice. Not to mention his posts are super wordy. Either way, I still think Rels/Sulfurus deserve another look. When Rels comes back, we should ask him to defend himself against Trfel's points. We should be able to get a read on the defense.
On June 15 2015 04:22 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, did a reading of n00bKing and I don't think he's Mafia.
Personality read: Likes to be in control, dislikes change, rather bossy. As can be evidenced in his posts lamenting changes in people's opinion, how he gives so much advice, and how he always tries and tell people what to do. I think his personality is what affects so much of his posting which is why most of it is convoluted and he feels the need to pursue even the trivial. Like really? Arguing with batsnacks over "advice"?
Town read: Very consistent. At the start, yes he floods the thread with advice, but when he starts pressuring people, he remains consistent. It seems that he suspected batsnacks, me, and Plants at the start for our behavior and strange post(s). As the game continues and even to this very point, he has been pressuring me and batsnacks and has remained consistent in doing so.
In fact, this may be his downfall more than most. While it seems that he agrees that Rels/Sulf exhibit suspicious behavior, he still seems intent on finding ways to bring me and batsnacks down per how he read us at the very start of the thread. As for other people's posts, he seems content to question a couple but mostly agree or add on to their posts.
Conclusion: n00bking's filter just shows consistency in what he's been doing. He gets caught in the trivial, he's bossy, and he gave a bit too much advice at the start, but he is definitely a townie that's trying to catch the Mafia.
4. This post where I make the theory that moosy is using noobking's legacy to push his own case, even though it's not the same. 5. He was very wishy washy day 1, and argumented it was his style. Then night 1 and day 2 he changed pretty hardly and is now pushing ruxxar hard for my lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 09:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: @Rels, any comments on my posts? Still confused why you don't think I'm townie.
OK sorry in advance, but in my mind it's actually pretty good where you're at. I was so sure you were mafia with your first post that me imagining you at null read is a pretty good deal. When I made this post with the two points I was thinking I was going to destroy you. I think I was clouded by my first impression of you.
You won't ever be a town lean in my mind until you either make a case on someone and defend it, or sheep a case on someone and explain why. Not taking stances = I can't judge you 100%.
Unfortunately I'm trying to be careful with my vote so it looks like that won't happen anytime soon. -.- At least I'm glad to see you're finally starting to realize I'm a townie.
On June 15 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Maybe me being suspicious of all of them early day 1 will buy me some town cred???? I need some after being afk so long.
Don't worry. It looks like Rels -> Sulfurus right now. If both are right, I'm pretty sure we'll have to vote to kill ruXxar and we always have cop to check if necessary.
Reasons that he could be town: 1. He posts questions to people, but contrary to scott, he follows up with analysis of the answer. He shows a willingness to solve the game, or at least he's faking that willingness. 2. Didn't solely sheep the cases on me, but made his own. OK, the points are not clear, but he worked on it. He even addressed a point nobody else did: the fact that I wasn't that much engaged on a geript's lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 05:37 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, I started reading filters and I especially looked at Rels/Sulfurus as people have been implying. I REALLY think they're both Mafia.
Rels first comes into the thread and directs all attention to the passive posts from both me and Fake)Plants. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
Then he tries to switch the case onto me-geript-batsnacks which is the next best scapegoat from a newbie who only posted once and never again. Not only that, but notice how he attempts to bring this under the light while trying to cover for Sulfurus who is beginning to become suspected.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
I have strong town reads on wos and KS. I have town reads on ruxxar, oats and trfel. I really want to like Sulfu as he had the same attitude of "not posting a lot but ask question" last game, and he was town. But I think he has less than 5 posts atm, that's really not a lot.
Everybody I have not talk about I have either no read or mafia lean. It's especially hard on the moosy - geript - bats situation. I don't like moosy for : - his first post - his multiple times stating he is a newbie
But geript's reasoning for voting him is super bad. And batsnacks' one is so weird, involving double bus at one point.
Well. Here is my brain atm.
Then he tries to make a case on me once people tell him me-geript-batsnacks was never a thing.
On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post:
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post.
Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about:
On June 12 2015 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yo, also keep in mind a newbie might be Mafia which is why he's not jumping on my post. Seems like something Mafia should do from reading the guide.
On June 13 2015 03:34 geript wrote: Nah. It'd be pretty odd if there wasn't at least 1 veteran on the mafia team.
I'm re-reading posts right now to make a list, but the veteran(s) had to be inactive at the start to not point it out. On the other hand, any newbie might be the Mafia.
After this, he leaves the thread for a bit and posts a list of people he suspects in order to pretend to be active. Then WaveofShadow, Oats, and me begin to defend batsnacks whereupon a case begins to form around geript and Sulfurus. Rels decides upon lynching geript and not Sulfurus. Note that before this he is also defending Sulfurus by saying he played the same way in "the previous game". However, batsnacks provided several examples where Sulfurus was providing better critical analysis whereupon Rels is forced to remain quiet.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
##Vote geript
As Trfel already pointed out, Rels also does not really seem to support this vote as he already knows who Mafia REALLY is.
On June 13 2015 19:22 Rels wrote: Geript could you expand on two things when you come back ?
1
On June 13 2015 03:08 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
This post is pretty bad.
On June 12 2015 10:30 Kickstart wrote: Because I've had the urge to troll you since I came back to playing mafia Oats. I can't help myself. Don't worry though the 2 scums atm are ruxxar and sulfurus so you are not in my tunnel atm.
[...] Oooh Damdred replaced in. That guy's town 100%. ezpz.
On June 13 2015 06:41 geript wrote: Nah. Damdred is 100% town. He's gotten pretty easy to read.
It's pretty cool that you can read damdred (= but this game he's impossible for to read atm due to lack of posts. Were you saying that if he's town you're going to know it for sure later ? And do you read damdred town right now ?
2
On June 13 2015 06:56 geript wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 geript wrote: Wave not making association cases would be far more concerning. Not a fan of trfel
Why don't you like Trfel?
Not really something something I can put my finger on. Feels I guess. Maybe my impression of his meta is off from his actual meta since I don't think I've played a game with him for a bit. [...]
I would be super interested if you took the time to reread Trfel's past game with you and expand on that. If you don't have the time to do that, could you at least try to explain this more ?
And from this point, Rels disappears, never addresses Trfel's point and he never really answered any other questions as well. I'm curious to see his response when he comes back although I believe a strong case can be made against both Rels and Sulfurus as a team of Mafia.
3. WOS, one of my town hard read, has a hard read on moosy. Quoted in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Moosydoosy For all of the reasons I've stated previously. Moosy's play has just been extremely consistent with a very new player overall. Yes it is POSSIBLE scum can replicate this, but not without messing up somewhere down the line and certainly not with this level of activity. (The caveat here which might have to be looked into eventually that I find kind of interesting is this 'bait' he pulled off recently. Is a Moosy who is so nooby as to not realize geript flipped town for example, able to pull off a play like that? Food for thought, but not tomorrow.)
At the end of the day, I find that his wishy washiness disappeared a little bit too fast when he started pushing me hard. So I'm not definite he's scum, but if I was at LYLO with him and anyone other than Kickstart and scott, I would lynch him. Conclusion: Mafia lean
On June 16 2015 03:28 Rels wrote: MoosyDoosy I don't really know about him. Will list for what reasons I find him scummy, and what reasons he could be town too.
Reasons for me suspecting him: 1. His first post. It's bad, long and weird. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
2. He refers himself as a newbie several times. Not as much as I thought day 1, but there is still a number of times he does it. In addition, he either dumbtells a few times and didn't read the OP carefully. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: [...] I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 13 2015 02:08 scott31337 wrote: Geript has four posts and very little content. I know he's good as mafia - but on the scum side of null for now.
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
Is this a dumbtell and didn't read the OP? Did he read boxerfred's last game and took all his ideas (Ie I'll act like I'm so newb everybody will just read me over for a few days)
On June 13 2015 00:58 MoosyDoosy wrote: What I want to do is find out why geript stopped posting after WaveofShadow had a scumread on him.
@batsnacks, I mean, I'm pretty sure I made it clear I was a town but sure, go ahead and waste your vote.
I sure am not seeing this "I made it clear". "Go ahead and waste your vote" is a very interesting way to word a vote on you if you are town.
On June 12 2015 22:54 batsnacks wrote: I think I'm going to sheep geript now he was making sense about moose.
##unvote ##vote moosygoosy
On June 12 2015 10:27 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
people should be talking about this.
Making sense? He quoted one post and said talk about this.
I like Oat's post about "N00bking" looking townie since didn't stop his advice posting even when people stopped him - that makes a lot of sense.
Bats and Geript bussing Moose? looks like the most logical conclusion I see at this time.
## Batsnacks / Geript / MoosyDoosy but that would be too ez.
But not liking Batsnacks.
Anyone have any questions or want to point out things I may have missed?
Ok, let's get this straight. As I said multiple times before, I'm new to TL and online Mafia. Either way, I'll address your points.
1. You say geript is a good Mafia from previous games and he's too obvious here leading to the conclusion he's not Mafia. If that's the case, how would you expect me to know that? I've never played TL Mafia before and never played with geript so I wouldn't know. 2. All I know about boxerfred is from his post here where he said he couldn't play and from his lack of posts. I don't even know what games he was previously in. The only person I know is Trfel who goes on Bnet forums from time to time which is where I commonly post. 3. I don't see how "Go ahead and waste your vote" is weird. I'm clearly a town so I don't see why batsnacks would vote for me. 4. I already explained why I worded my first post in my first Mafia game in the way I did. I've obviously seen why that's a bad thing to do (Mafia will find a way to point it out and lynch me) so I'm obviously not going to do that in the future.
Is there anything else?
1. I was not saying either way - but Geript is a good mafia player.Is he AFK or uninterested or mafia or both? That's what we're trying to figure out. If you have free time and would like, the TL Mafia Database has a listing of peoples games here and links.
2. I'll rephrase - Boxerfred posted a lot of newbie/dumb questions and skated on this for a few days until people got suspicious of him. It was a ruse. You have read the whole OP (first post) now right? You know what roles CAN be in the game?
3. You just said it again. "I'm clearly a town" - if you say it enough I'll start to believe it? People who keep saying lines like this irk me. "The Most Basic Form of Mind Control is Repetition"
4. Fair enough point, thank you.
scott, bottom line is that most of your reasoning is based on the belief that I'll know how others play or how to play. And what I keep saying is that I'm new to online Mafia and don't know how to play or how others play.
There are 3 Mafia and 2 town roles. I believe that reducing kill power from 2 to 1 is the single most important factor in us winning the game. This would buy us so much time that we should have overwhelming odds of winning. The chance of targeting Carl is very low.
I'm ok with taking the odds of a power role checking Carl if it means we increase our chances of killing mafia.
Does knowing that there is only 1 mafia attack each Night change your position?
Also, where are you getting that there are "2 town roles?" I see absolutely nothing that would indicate there are 8 VTs and 2 non-Vanilla Town roles, if that is what you are saying.
Sorry for this newbie question which I should have asked earlier but which slipped my mind because I had to do something else. What's a Carl?
3. WIFOM point: 3 hours before noobking was killed, moosy did two posts to say noobking was town. Could be he knew that noobking was going to be confirmed town, and wanted the towncred of listing as town before he died. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:47 MoosyDoosy wrote: Nah, I think n00bKing's a townie. He's been decent at pressuring people although he's pretty bossy and gives way too much advice. Not to mention his posts are super wordy. Either way, I still think Rels/Sulfurus deserve another look. When Rels comes back, we should ask him to defend himself against Trfel's points. We should be able to get a read on the defense.
On June 15 2015 04:22 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, did a reading of n00bKing and I don't think he's Mafia.
Personality read: Likes to be in control, dislikes change, rather bossy. As can be evidenced in his posts lamenting changes in people's opinion, how he gives so much advice, and how he always tries and tell people what to do. I think his personality is what affects so much of his posting which is why most of it is convoluted and he feels the need to pursue even the trivial. Like really? Arguing with batsnacks over "advice"?
Town read: Very consistent. At the start, yes he floods the thread with advice, but when he starts pressuring people, he remains consistent. It seems that he suspected batsnacks, me, and Plants at the start for our behavior and strange post(s). As the game continues and even to this very point, he has been pressuring me and batsnacks and has remained consistent in doing so.
In fact, this may be his downfall more than most. While it seems that he agrees that Rels/Sulf exhibit suspicious behavior, he still seems intent on finding ways to bring me and batsnacks down per how he read us at the very start of the thread. As for other people's posts, he seems content to question a couple but mostly agree or add on to their posts.
Conclusion: n00bking's filter just shows consistency in what he's been doing. He gets caught in the trivial, he's bossy, and he gave a bit too much advice at the start, but he is definitely a townie that's trying to catch the Mafia.
4. This post where I make the theory that moosy is using noobking's legacy to push his own case, even though it's not the same. 5. He was very wishy washy day 1, and argumented it was his style. Then night 1 and day 2 he changed pretty hardly and is now pushing ruxxar hard for my lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 09:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: @Rels, any comments on my posts? Still confused why you don't think I'm townie.
OK sorry in advance, but in my mind it's actually pretty good where you're at. I was so sure you were mafia with your first post that me imagining you at null read is a pretty good deal. When I made this post with the two points I was thinking I was going to destroy you. I think I was clouded by my first impression of you.
You won't ever be a town lean in my mind until you either make a case on someone and defend it, or sheep a case on someone and explain why. Not taking stances = I can't judge you 100%.
Unfortunately I'm trying to be careful with my vote so it looks like that won't happen anytime soon. -.- At least I'm glad to see you're finally starting to realize I'm a townie.
On June 15 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Maybe me being suspicious of all of them early day 1 will buy me some town cred???? I need some after being afk so long.
Don't worry. It looks like Rels -> Sulfurus right now. If both are right, I'm pretty sure we'll have to vote to kill ruXxar and we always have cop to check if necessary.
Reasons that he could be town: 1. He posts questions to people, but contrary to scott, he follows up with analysis of the answer. He shows a willingness to solve the game, or at least he's faking that willingness. 2. Didn't solely sheep the cases on me, but made his own. OK, the points are not clear, but he worked on it. He even addressed a point nobody else did: the fact that I wasn't that much engaged on a geript's lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 05:37 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, I started reading filters and I especially looked at Rels/Sulfurus as people have been implying. I REALLY think they're both Mafia.
Rels first comes into the thread and directs all attention to the passive posts from both me and Fake)Plants. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
Then he tries to switch the case onto me-geript-batsnacks which is the next best scapegoat from a newbie who only posted once and never again. Not only that, but notice how he attempts to bring this under the light while trying to cover for Sulfurus who is beginning to become suspected.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
I have strong town reads on wos and KS. I have town reads on ruxxar, oats and trfel. I really want to like Sulfu as he had the same attitude of "not posting a lot but ask question" last game, and he was town. But I think he has less than 5 posts atm, that's really not a lot.
Everybody I have not talk about I have either no read or mafia lean. It's especially hard on the moosy - geript - bats situation. I don't like moosy for : - his first post - his multiple times stating he is a newbie
But geript's reasoning for voting him is super bad. And batsnacks' one is so weird, involving double bus at one point.
Well. Here is my brain atm.
Then he tries to make a case on me once people tell him me-geript-batsnacks was never a thing.
On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post:
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post.
Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about:
On June 12 2015 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yo, also keep in mind a newbie might be Mafia which is why he's not jumping on my post. Seems like something Mafia should do from reading the guide.
On June 13 2015 03:34 geript wrote: Nah. It'd be pretty odd if there wasn't at least 1 veteran on the mafia team.
I'm re-reading posts right now to make a list, but the veteran(s) had to be inactive at the start to not point it out. On the other hand, any newbie might be the Mafia.
After this, he leaves the thread for a bit and posts a list of people he suspects in order to pretend to be active. Then WaveofShadow, Oats, and me begin to defend batsnacks whereupon a case begins to form around geript and Sulfurus. Rels decides upon lynching geript and not Sulfurus. Note that before this he is also defending Sulfurus by saying he played the same way in "the previous game". However, batsnacks provided several examples where Sulfurus was providing better critical analysis whereupon Rels is forced to remain quiet.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
##Vote geript
As Trfel already pointed out, Rels also does not really seem to support this vote as he already knows who Mafia REALLY is.
On June 13 2015 19:22 Rels wrote: Geript could you expand on two things when you come back ?
1
On June 13 2015 03:08 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
This post is pretty bad.
On June 12 2015 10:30 Kickstart wrote: Because I've had the urge to troll you since I came back to playing mafia Oats. I can't help myself. Don't worry though the 2 scums atm are ruxxar and sulfurus so you are not in my tunnel atm.
[...] Oooh Damdred replaced in. That guy's town 100%. ezpz.
On June 13 2015 06:41 geript wrote: Nah. Damdred is 100% town. He's gotten pretty easy to read.
It's pretty cool that you can read damdred (= but this game he's impossible for to read atm due to lack of posts. Were you saying that if he's town you're going to know it for sure later ? And do you read damdred town right now ?
2
On June 13 2015 06:56 geript wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 geript wrote: Wave not making association cases would be far more concerning. Not a fan of trfel
Why don't you like Trfel?
Not really something something I can put my finger on. Feels I guess. Maybe my impression of his meta is off from his actual meta since I don't think I've played a game with him for a bit. [...]
I would be super interested if you took the time to reread Trfel's past game with you and expand on that. If you don't have the time to do that, could you at least try to explain this more ?
And from this point, Rels disappears, never addresses Trfel's point and he never really answered any other questions as well. I'm curious to see his response when he comes back although I believe a strong case can be made against both Rels and Sulfurus as a team of Mafia.
3. WOS, one of my town hard read, has a hard read on moosy. Quoted in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Moosydoosy For all of the reasons I've stated previously. Moosy's play has just been extremely consistent with a very new player overall. Yes it is POSSIBLE scum can replicate this, but not without messing up somewhere down the line and certainly not with this level of activity. (The caveat here which might have to be looked into eventually that I find kind of interesting is this 'bait' he pulled off recently. Is a Moosy who is so nooby as to not realize geript flipped town for example, able to pull off a play like that? Food for thought, but not tomorrow.)
At the end of the day, I find that his wishy washiness disappeared a little bit too fast when he started pushing me hard. So I'm not definite he's scum, but if I was at LYLO with him and anyone other than Kickstart and scott, I would lynch him. Conclusion: Mafia lean
1. Newbie post. I know you hate me saying it, but it is a newbie post. As a note, I was interested in finding out their perspectives which is why I asked. I would understand if it was a completely empty and passive post, but I was trying to get in on the conversation, and it's enough that you keep harping on it after this long. 2. I was attempting to help my fellow newbies escape a mislynch based on their first posts like you seem intent on doing with my first post. 3. Someone said that we should look at n00bKing which the first quote was a response to. That someone (I think Damdred?) then asked for reasoning which I provided with second quote. So it wasn't me trying to associate with n00bKing but me answering someone's questions and replying to that someone. 4. Yeh, that's already refuted because I felt it was safer to assume that the person with more cases against him was Mafia. 5. I figured it was time to take movement. I'm still a passive player, but you can still see hints of that aggression in my defense in Day 1. I was also uncertain if ruXxar was a Mafia or not which is what I was pressuring him for. I wasn't pressuring him to lynch you two (he said he would, but backed out of it just as fast) but I was trying to see if I could get a slip to know if he's Mafia or not. I'm still not sure about it, but his defense was terrible and he ran away at the end.
Does that answer your points or would you like specifics?
Point 1, 2 and 4, you're going to say that even if you're mafia, so your answers don't solve nor aggravate the points. By themselves they don't make you hard scum, they just make me suspicious of you.
Point 3, I'll check, if you're right then this point is null.
Point 5, I'll see how you evolved as the day goes on.
On June 16 2015 03:44 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also Rels I'd like you to take a look at this.
On June 15 2015 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol also this moosy vs ruxxar business. I gotta say moosy you're scaring me a little because if I'm going to get burned by one of you it looks like you'd be the one. I can visibly see you improving in the middle of this game and part of me wonders if it's because you were sandbagging all along.
On June 15 2015 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol also this moosy vs ruxxar business. I gotta say moosy you're scaring me a little because if I'm going to get burned by one of you it looks like you'd be the one. I can visibly see you improving in the middle of this game and part of me wonders if it's because you were sandbagging all along.
^.^ Nah. idk if you'll necessarily trust me since this is a game of Mafia, but I'm not scum. Either way, thanks for the compliment. The only reason why I've been improving this much is because I have a whole host of role models and examples in this thread to look at.
That's NAI but touching (= whatever your alignment I can see you're improving and having fun, so it's pretty cool.
On June 16 2015 00:19 Rels wrote: scott31337 I think scott is mafia for these reasons 1. You knew it was coming (= scott's predecessor, plants, had only one post, and that post was super bad. + Show Spoiler +
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
2. scott hoped on the "lynch Rels" train too easily for my taste. His only arguments were "Trfel's case is good" and "he didn't answer my question". Furthermore, the Trfel's case he's sheeping is not the initial one but a super bad one. Even noobking said so. See here for more info on case. In spoiler you'll find the evolution of scott's read on me.
That's fair - You have looked a bit better in the last few pages - It's appreciated. I was ready to lynch you. I haven't read anything on KS either since this post. The thing I'm not liking is how you try to convince Sulf is town. We will figure this out. His wall of text sounded convincing, and yes, I did see N00b actually wanted Sulf lynched first. Look what happened?
On June 13 2015 01:44 scott31337 wrote: Good day. I'm at page 16 - So far not liking N00bking for his wordy fluff - and Rels gets a slight townread (even if it's for calling out my replacement). KS and Oats feel are two townies angry at each other.
On June 12 2015 10:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway Trfel, what makes bats town?
I had a town lean on batsnacks due to the balance between his jokes and serious reads. Since then, batsnacks has been much more serious, and his jokes are few and far between, so this read isn't valid any more.
On June 12 2015 10:51 Oatsmaster wrote: NAI is a new thing lol.
I kinda like ruxxar. It was really funny that he answered a question not directed at him asking why people shouldnt answer questions not directed at them.
He doesnt do it intentionally to just create content IMO.
(bold added) So if he doesn't do it intentionally, then why is it towny?
On June 12 2015 15:03 n00bKing wrote: It's also worth noting that RuXx purposely furthered the conversation about Town players lying, AFTER he saw that some other players were reacting negatively to what he had said. If a Newbie scum player saw that what he had said was causing some raised eyebrows, he might clam up or change the subject, to get beyond the comment that had raised suspicion, and bury it. Instead, he challenges the people who expressed a contradictory viewpoint, which ensures that no readers who come along later will gloss over what he's said.
You could try to say that he didn't realize it was a controversial statement when he first made it. But even after it was clear to him (based on the posts of other players) that it was a controversial statement, he stuck to it, and called more attention to it. Again, I feel like this is boldness you would seldom see from an inexperienced scum player.
This point about ruXxar continuing to press the lying issue is good. I guess I judged ruXxar too early.
##unvote
On June 12 2015 16:35 Rels wrote: Hello everybody, GL HF!
I'll read the thread now and comment on things. See you soon.
I really don't like this post at all. Posting without having read the thread is useless, the only thing it helps with is making it look like you're doing more work that you actually are, and it detracts from scumhunting. But making a useless post after the investigation has already started is pathetic.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
Rels, what about ruXxar's post made you say this?
On June 13 2015 01:10 WaveofShadow wrote: I can't decide now if I think geript and bats could be scum together for this horribleness. Association cases = bad but I can't help it and I THINK it's probably not the case. One of them at least for sure though.
I have no idea why someone as experienced as WaveofShadow would share a potential association case while in the same post acknowledging that association cases are bad. Please explain.
On June 13 2015 01:44 scott31337 wrote: Good day. I'm at page 16 - So far not liking N00bking for his wordy fluff - and Rels gets a slight townread (even if it's for calling out my replacement). KS and Oats feel are two townies angry at each other.
Let me catch up with the rest and a through read.
Why does calling out the player with only one post, who needs to get replaced, make someone town? Especially because, if you are town, he called out the easiest player to pick on who happens to be confirmed town.
I really don't like batsnacks' response to the pressure on him. Batsnacks doesn't normally react like this, he's fine under pressure. In my first game playing with him, I tunneled him for basically all of Day 1 and Night 1, and he made a post telling people to stop arguing about useless things and read the case I had posted on him.
I need to read some filters, but batsnacks seems very active, concerned about his safety, but not providing actual content.
On June 13 2015 06:42 n00bKing wrote:
On June 13 2015 03:28 geript wrote:
On June 13 2015 03:25 batsnacks wrote: I don't know what geripts alignment is...
Clearly that guy is 3P.
I don't know what 3P means either.
Third party.
Let me rephrase this since I see what you are saying but I didn't type that properly. Rels made a case on my replacement slot that he believed in, and caught Plants in a "lie" - I saw him a slight town read for believing in his case. I meant more of (even if he is calling out my replacement slot).
On June 13 2015 07:29 scott31337 wrote: Who I'm liking so far -
Wave Trfel n00bKing Damdred Oats
Probably wouldn't lynch today - Rels Kickstart
Could Lynch - Batsnacks Geript MoosyDoosy Sulfurus RuXxar
On June 13 2015 07:37 scott31337 wrote: KS and Rels are playing a lot different then my last game with either of them, which makes me wonder.
What the fuck is that thing. Say how we played differently or don't say anything at all.
His next post is how he changed his reads on me. Just sheep the Trfel. Easy no effort would do again.
Rels is generally throwing around suspicions on everything. His townread on ruXxar changed after it was clear that the push on ruXxar wasn't going anywhere. He's scumreading people already being scumread by others, and multiple times he uses other people's posts to justify increasing his own suspicions of other people. + Show Spoiler [Examples] +
Criticizing MoosyDoosy's opening post (geript already did this) Suspicious of batsnacks (common suspicion), geript (WaveofShadow already said this), and MoosyDoosy (geript) Agrees with the suspicion I voiced on MoosyDoosy Immediately asked geript for his reason for being suspicious of scott31337, suddenly is more suspicious of him himself (see my previous post)
It seems like Rels is like a leaf in the wind, following thread sentiment, jumping on whatever works. He townreads people who are being townread already, he scumreads people who are being scumread, and only changes when the thread sentiment shifts.
The one major departure from this trend is when he townreads batsnacks. He did this before Damdred jumped in. This is a pretty big change in his read, and against the thread sentiment. However, I think that the way that Rels jumps on whatever suspicion is available every other time in the thread is quite telling.
I can get aboard this and feeling better then a Sulf lynch - you pulled a lot of work Trfel. You the man!
On June 15 2015 02:05 batsnacks wrote: n00bking you read a lot of newbie mafia X right? Who would you say your play style this game most closely resembles in that game?
That's a very unusual question. I guess I hadn't thought about it. Without going back to look at that thread, I guess I would say my play in this game is a closest match for...Rels, in that game? I remember often thinking that Breschke and Barakos were saying things that made me think they were Town. But they weren't always saying things that I had myself been thinking before they posted it. Rels was.
(P.S. I still can't believe you guys lynched Bill Murray over ninjabunnies. I was almost yelling at the screen, toward the end of that Phase. lol)
BM was a fine lynch he didn't do anything to prevent it and we had a green check on bunnies.
Your posting this game is very similar to boxerfred. He spent tons of effort speculating about roles instead of focusing on finding mafia and we all just gave him a pass because he was new and at least he was posting a lot.
I don't know if he read the mafia QT either, but it was all a ruse to get newbtowncred. This brings up a very good point.
So even in my question to rels (who has not answered yet) Sulfurus still hasn't posted anything. All there is are a couple posts on lynch Trfel (who I townread and is mostly townread at this time) so I'm doubtful this is going to happen. - so make a case or try again.
I'm down for a Sulf or a Rels lynch.
Where I'm at -
BS looks- okay? even if we was incorrect Damdred is trying to solve the game WoS and Trfel are up there as well, I like WoS list post. Oats has a little defensive attitude, but slight town also Kickstart just feels so much more different then his last game as town which makes me wonder about him n00bking is a slight town read but a lot of wordy fluff in his posts Moosy I'm still a toss up on Ruxxar - His bluehunting was terrible. I want to smack him in the head with a trout. Donkey town?
On June 15 2015 07:09 scott31337 wrote: What an awesome post, n00b. I haven't felt good about Sulf or Rels, and Rels didn't reply to anything, just went to sleep.
K so to begin with, Rels and Oats are the first two on. Circumstances: Rels - came up with sorta-novel reasons to vote Geript once I was already off of him. This is probably actually a point in his favour overall as it was probably easier to do so while I was on him (though then again maybe it's just because he wasn't on while all my shit with him was going down? meh. He also asks me why I stopped voting him) The vote itself isn't bad is what I'm saying here.
Oats - Just switched on to him with no exposition as I mentioned earlier. When asked his response was:
On June 14 2015 10:16 Oatsmaster wrote: WHat you want wave?
Geript flipped town. Sucks. Move on.
If you are asking why Geript as opposed to other people, basically what I explained earlier. He didn't post before I slept so yeah, that's where my read was.
On June 13 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm scum reading sulfurus because you are sleeping people onto bats, means you don't really tthink bats is mafia, but your town reads do so you value their opinion over yours.
Bats isn't gonna shit up the thread lol, that's an empty threat. I was totally right about geript switching off moose btw. I think geript is easily mafia.
This is believable actually, and he had a good reason to switch I suppose, I just didn't bother to look back initially when accusing him. This also fits with his 'more-likely-townplay' of switching reads around constantly.
Now comes the shitstorm. I'm fine with Bat's vote so I'm not going to bother here. Important to note though that he already has 3 people on him when Bats votes so scum can now see this is as a likely mislynch.
Trfel - First to jump on the wake of Bat's 'discovery.' Eh. On looking through I thought he was on Rels all day and then dropped his amazing case instantly in favor of even after this post:
On June 14 2015 04:14 Trfel wrote: Ugh, I just don't quite feel right about lynching geript or Damdred. They're both incredible players, and it's the weekend, so it's unfair to expect normal activity levels from them.
##vote Rels
But he was onto batsnacks as well at one point. It does kinda look as though he almost doesn't believe his own case at times because of his initial dropoff from Rels onto bats, then as bats lost ground back onto rels again and onto Geript. He does put a LOT of effort into his rels push when he is on him though so at the same time it seems doubtful that this is a half-assed push where he was just looking for an out. Not sold either on this one. Also liked his activity around the lynch and his first post after flip.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Bats...I am so proud of you
Interested to hear what bats himself thinks here of the people who sheeped him actually. I take it you were too excited it about your lynch at the time to see all of this going down?
Moosy - Fine with him. Has a monster filter, constant discussion of the lynch while it was going down.
Ruxxar - Ah, I remember pointing this one out before.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Wow bats... I'm speechless.
I had you and geript as my top two scum.
I refuse to believe that you would bus your own scum teammate this hard. You really redeemed yourself here in my eyes.
I'll have to change my alignment of you to town and change my vote to geript.
##Unvote batsnacks ##Vote geript
I also remember not liking his post after the flip. Just looks like he's making more excuses and feigning...something. Ugh I know I've been calling him town due to the moosy business but the more I watch those two the more I think SOMETHING has to be going on here. Ruxxar more likely scum than moosy by a huge factor.
Scott - Actually just ninjavoted. Didn't even say a thing about Geript. That's interesting. Ballsy for scum but apparently nobody picked up on it so far?
Personally thinking Damdred and Ruxxar come out looking the worst on geript train analysis. Both jump on after the train has begun to gather steam and help to push it past the crucial point (Damdred more so than even Ruxxar) But ruxxar's posting around it was pretty terrible while Damdred's is minimal and while not great, I COULD just see it coming from non-self-conscious town.
I'm kind of glad I did, when I came back to the thread the flip was already there. I could've got modkilled for failure to vote with the hour earlier confusion. Batsnacks case made sense at the time and I sheeped it.
was there any reason you didnt feel a need to post in the thread around that time?
Who are your scumreads now?
I did but indirectly. The flipped already happened - I went to re-evaluate.
Rels / Sulf / KS - I have asked multiple questions to Rels and he could care less answering mine or the others.
Sulf's filter as I've said before has a couple posts and then goes after Trfel
KS would be the least of the three, but his game is so much different then last game and he was town.
3. Small filter, that can be explained by the fact that he replaced in. But in his small filters, there is a lot of fluff.
On June 14 2015 03:50 n00bKing wrote: Does knowing that there is only 1 mafia attack each Night change your position?
Knowing that there is only 1 kp, then i believe there is a case both for and against the PGO to reveal himself.
Here are my scenarios for and against :
For:
The PGO is a weak town player that might get cop checked. The PGO is one of the strongest town players and likely to be targeted by the medic.
Against:
A semi strong town player is the PGO, but he's not the strongest. Medic will most likely protect the perceived strongest town player. The mafia knowing this will go for some of the second strongest targets they know probably won't be saved by the medic. In this case it's beneficial for the PGO to not reveal himself.
That's pretty interesting, considering you had just said this:
ruXxar wrote: After reducing kill power to 1 I would agree that Carl revealing himself is a good play.
In my first post I was just taking into consideration that mafia with 1 kp perform 1 target action per night and that town has 2 with cop and medic. It wasn't until my last post that i thought about it more deeply and tried to figure out the real scenarios.
I'm also not used to mafia with more roles than mafia, cop, medic, vigilante and town. A lot of my thinking right now is automatically based around just having those roles in the game, since that's what i've had the most exposure to. I'm trying to rectify this.
You're moving in the opposite direction of what would make sense, though. You assumed the Town had only Cop and Doctor. And said that once the Mafia was down to 1kp, it makes sense for Carl to claim.
Now, nevermind the fact that a discussion OF the Carl role ALREADY destroys your notion that the Town only has Cop and Doctor as its non-vanilla roles.
When you add in Dr. Weird and Frylock as additional Town roles that could be killed by Carl (both of which would kill Carl at the same time!) it becomes way MORE obvious that Carl needs to claim. Instead, when you thought about it more, you start to see a case for and against him claiming? That doesn't make any sense. Please make sense.
My scenarios make sense in the isolated scope i presented.
I'm trying to make sense of the role listed posted on the first page but it's confusing me.
scum team - "Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday" context: + Show Spoiler +
Roleblocker - Cybernectic Ghost of Christmas Past from the Future: Every night, you may choose a player to roleblock, which will prevent them from performing actions and visits that night. The roleblocked player will be notified, even if s/he is vanilla. + Show Spoiler +
Rolecop -Happy Time Harry: Every night you may choose a player to role check. You will get a result saying what role they have.+ Show Spoiler +
Godfather - Ignignokt the mooninite: You return "town" to cop checks, as though you were a vanilla townie. + Show Spoiler +
Vigilante - rabbot: Once per game, at night, you may select a player to kill. That player is shot overnight and dies at the start of the next day. If your target was also shot by mafia, or was protected by a doctor or veteran status, your bullet is lost. If you were roleblocked, you don't use your bullet and can try againt he next night. + Show Spoiler +
Goon - plutionian (Emory and Ogelthorpe) + Show Spoiler +
Town Mad Hatter - Dr. Weird: You have 1 bomb. At night you can place that bomb on another player, or move the bomb. When you die, the bomb blows up killing them. If your target is lynched, your bomb is lost. If your target is shot, the bomb is returned to you. You win with the town.+ Show Spoiler +
Cop - Allen (Alien): Each night phase, you may choose a player to investigate. You will visit the player and receive "Town" or "Anti-town" as a result. Your results are guaranteed to be accurate. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
Veteran - Master Shake: You have a bulletproof vest that can absorb one bullet. This means you need to be shot twice in order to die: once to destroy the vest, once to kill you. If you are roleblocked, however, your bulletproof vest doesn't work that night. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
Vigilante - frylock: Once per game, at night, you may select a player to kill. That player is shot overnight and dies at the start of the next day. If your target was also shot by mafia, or was protected by a doctor or veteran status, your bullet is lost. If you were roleblocked, you don't use your bullet and can try againt he next night. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
Paranoid Gun Owner - Carl: The Paranoid Gun Owner passively (and involuntarily) kills anyone who targets it during the Night. You win with town.+ Show Spoiler +
Doctor - Neil: Every night, you may choose a player other than yourself to protect. You will visit the player, and if the mafia attempt to kill a player you are protecting on the same night, the kill will fail. Neither you nor the target will be notified if you prevent a kill. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
VT - Meatwad piece + Show Spoiler +
According to this, it's possible that the 3 mafia can have these roles:
Role blocker, rolecop, godfather, vigilante and goon.
Or does it mean that there are 3 mafia PLUS possibly 5 other roles that are not mafia, but win when mafia wins?
Please help me understand.
Your first sentence is correct - "it's possible that the 3 mafia can have these roles:
Role blocker, rolecop, godfather, vigilante and goon."
and It's usually going to be two roles and a goon, and one will probably be a roleblocker. But the hosts could have some crazy setup as well, you never know, this is just based on past TL mafia games.
On June 15 2015 05:50 ruXxar wrote: Here's some food for thought.
So far we have scum reads on 2 mafia, Rels and Sulfu. Both are newbies.
How likely do you think that all 3 mafia are in the newbie group? Would it not make sense that at least 1 mafia is part of the veteran group?
People who have played previous newbie games, what is usually the distribution of mafia on newbie/veteran side?
In theory it's RNG.
IX was all newbies until Holyflare replaced in.
4. Even more troubling than small filters with fluff posts, scott has a lot of his posts asking question. And he never did anything with the answer he got. Seriously, if scott asked you a question, look if he did anything with his answer.
I didn't have anything to reply, they answered their questions to my satisfaction, when they did. Is your question I asked you in here? Nope. Did Oats ever respond to my question? Nope - but I'm fine with that, I think he was just trying for a reaction.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
On June 13 2015 08:24 Sulfurus wrote: To start off I think n00bKing is the towniest person in this game period. Almost all of his posts are there to benefit town with either advice or very good questioning and again I think his reasoning on ruXxar is spot on (and much better then what Kick has said). So fmpov this make ruXx look really good and bats/kick look terrible (ruxx has also done a lot since that looks really towny in my eyes whereas kick and bats haven't).
Moving on there is also the whole conflict between Wave and Geript caused by his shitty read on Moosy (which was sheeped by Bats even though geript himself has changed his mind). I think this interaction makes Wave look pretty good and bats once again doesn't however he has since changed his vote to Rels.
Speaking of which the reason he is even voting Rels is because of a read by Trfel (looking back he was also one of the first to push scum on ruXx).
So they may not be the strongest town reads on those I called town but I think you guys are right and bats really is playing differently this game.
##Vote: Batsnacks
So you have a couple townreads and read bats scum, is that correct?
Bats is showing himself a little more townie lately, would you agree or no?
On June 13 2015 08:24 Sulfurus wrote: To start off I think n00bKing is the towniest person in this game period. Almost all of his posts are there to benefit town with either advice or very good questioning and again I think his reasoning on ruXxar is spot on (and much better then what Kick has said). So fmpov this make ruXx look really good and bats/kick look terrible (ruxx has also done a lot since that looks really towny in my eyes whereas kick and bats haven't).
Moving on there is also the whole conflict between Wave and Geript caused by his shitty read on Moosy (which was sheeped by Bats even though geript himself has changed his mind). I think this interaction makes Wave look pretty good and bats once again doesn't however he has since changed his vote to Rels.
Speaking of which the reason he is even voting Rels is because of a read by Trfel (looking back he was also one of the first to push scum on ruXx).
So they may not be the strongest town reads on those I called town but I think you guys are right and bats really is playing differently this game.
##Vote: Batsnacks
So you have a couple townreads and read bats scum, is that correct?
Bats is showing himself a little more townie lately, would you agree or no?
Who would you like to lynch besides Bats?
What about batsnacks' posting is towny? Self-meta?
On June 13 2015 07:23 n00bKing wrote: I'm confused about why you expect people to think you're Town? Can you help with that?
Well you haven't given me anything that I haven't responded to and you haven't brought anything new to the ongoing case on me in a long time so... I'm just assuming that you stopped scum reading me and forgot to switch your vote. Or you haven't decided who to switch to yet.
Okay. Well nope, I continue to agree with you that you're a reasonably good lynch target for Day 1. Also, you're aware that the player you're voting against now was not anywhere on your "would lynch" list, an hour ago? Trfel really turned your whole world upside down that quickly?
Yes he did Trfel makes awesome cases. Also I made that list before I started reading filters. If you follow the thread you can verify that.
Do you think this is just a pocket or he is mafia?
On June 14 2015 09:49 scott31337 wrote: I want to re-read Sulf and Rels again among others.
On June 14 2015 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I quite like lynching Scot.
What would your reasons for this be?
5. That list post without any explanation. After I asked, he gave some one liners to explain each scum leans he has. His scum lean on ruxxar is not explained, given that he stated that he has a town lean on him before.
I wanted to let the town know how I was feeling at that time - so this makes me scummy? I don't see where you are going from this.
On June 13 2015 08:40 Rels wrote: Alright scott I don't see your posts as scummy. Could you comment on this list post of yours:
On June 13 2015 07:29 scott31337 wrote: Who I'm liking so far -
Wave Trfel n00bKing Damdred Oats
Probably wouldn't lynch today - Rels Kickstart
Could Lynch - Batsnacks Geript MoosyDoosy Sulfurus RuXxar
Could you please add justifications for the "could lynch" nominees ?
Batsnacks - Been on the wagon most of the day and play is different then his normal town. His last few posts have been slightly better though so that's why I haven't voted him yet. Geript - Hasn't taken much of a stance - his list post wasn't that great - He's a good mafia player but really has a IDGAF mode this game so far. MoosyDoosy - pretty down the line middle - the "Sulfurus is the easiest to make a case" post, "wishy-washy" Sulfurus - has like four posts - unsure if he's legit AFK/IRL or just shitting the bed - and none of them were that great, and quick start vote. Probably leaning the most ATM RuXxar-3/4's of his thread is about liars and and the rest is pretty blah - Hopefully he'll show up tonight.
Before this list post, here is the only time he gives his opinion on ruxxar:
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: ^ Also Kickstart, I wouldn't read too much into ruXx's initial post where he's rambling about slapping/daydreaming about Mafia. It might have been from an attempt to identify himself as a non-aggressor to the Mafia so that when night time comes around, they don't kill him. If the game went on for longer, people would also suspect ruXx more giving the Mafia an easy kill. This actually happens a ton in real life Mafia but it's clear it's totally different online at this point.
Also, going back to his post where he "misses the interaction" which is right after his rambling, it's pretty clear that ruXx is not paying attention whatsoever. As a newbie he was probably just as excited as I was about remaining passive which is why he didn't notice the err in his post. Just the fact that it seems he has no idea whatsoever about what he's saying during his rambling just shows this too.
I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 12 2015 11:38 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yeah, the more I read of ruXx's initial posts, the more it seems he's thinking in terms of a real life Mafia game as well as tryharding a bit.
Him intercepting a question was him tryharding a basic read and him supporting lying is from a real life Mafia mindset since lying is much more common in real life.
The last two posts that you point out are kind of shady but even then they err on the side of newbie to online Mafia. Overall I wouldn't vote him just yet until we get more evidence.
Wow moosy.
I have to give you 5 stars for this read. It's like you're inside my head or something. I had goosebumps reading this since it was so spot on.
You are absolutely right that my only exposure to mafia has been through watching the TI qualifiers hub, and later watching all stars mafia on youtube.
I really wanted to emulate the dynamic of a live environment, and went in trying to actively counter some of the things i picked up that a mafia would do.
From watching those live mafia games I learned that the number 1 trait of a mafia is to be silent. They would bide their time and look for arguments to bandwagon onto, often avoid getting into heated arguments if possible, and when attacked they would try to deflect onto another person.
I admit I am very excited to go out playing my first mafia game, and overracted by claiming my role before day 1 post(I did not know that this was frowned upon).
Another thing that I learned is that it doesn't matter if you are mafia or not, as long as you contribute to try solving the case, then it's good to keep people around just in case they are town, because then in the largest portion of games they would be a boon to you as a town.
This is Rexxar's best post. The goosebumps part sounds so legitimate and would be extremely creative to fake from the posts he made earlier. Slight town read
6. This post. This is such a bad post. Either you say what's different or you don't say anything at all.
I wanted to make it a point, but because your name is included and probably the reason you commented on it - I'll elaborate. KS had a lot of critical analysis, was being mostly scumread and I read him as town because I saw it in him. It feels the opposite this game. It's ongoing so I won't get any more into it at this time. Although I got lynched - you were a lot different in that game on your D1. You are starting to show parts of that game now, unlike KS. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 07:37 scott31337 wrote: KS and Rels are playing a lot different then my last game with either of them, which makes me wonder.
7. Voted geript 40 minutes before the deadline, without ever referencing him before. In his lynch list, Sulfu was the scummier. Two hours before EOD, he said he would lynch me over Sulfu. I don't even know when the fucking deadline was, including the rest. There's a post on this already - I'd probably be modkilled if I didn't vote. Batsnacks's case look like he believed in it, BS looked townie, I believed in it and sheeped it. Oats thinks to do this would be ballsy as mafia - and I would agree - you think it's reason in a case. hmmm.
Rels is generally throwing around suspicions on everything. His townread on ruXxar changed after it was clear that the push on ruXxar wasn't going anywhere. He's scumreading people already being scumread by others, and multiple times he uses other people's posts to justify increasing his own suspicions of other people. + Show Spoiler [Examples] +
Criticizing MoosyDoosy's opening post (geript already did this) Suspicious of batsnacks (common suspicion), geript (WaveofShadow already said this), and MoosyDoosy (geript) Agrees with the suspicion I voiced on MoosyDoosy Immediately asked geript for his reason for being suspicious of scott31337, suddenly is more suspicious of him himself (see my previous post)
It seems like Rels is like a leaf in the wind, following thread sentiment, jumping on whatever works. He townreads people who are being townread already, he scumreads people who are being scumread, and only changes when the thread sentiment shifts.
The one major departure from this trend is when he townreads batsnacks. He did this before Damdred jumped in. This is a pretty big change in his read, and against the thread sentiment. However, I think that the way that Rels jumps on whatever suspicion is available every other time in the thread is quite telling.
I can get aboard this and feeling better then a Sulf lynch - you pulled a lot of work Trfel. You the man!
K so to begin with, Rels and Oats are the first two on. Circumstances: Rels - came up with sorta-novel reasons to vote Geript once I was already off of him. This is probably actually a point in his favour overall as it was probably easier to do so while I was on him (though then again maybe it's just because he wasn't on while all my shit with him was going down? meh. He also asks me why I stopped voting him) The vote itself isn't bad is what I'm saying here.
Oats - Just switched on to him with no exposition as I mentioned earlier. When asked his response was:
On June 14 2015 10:16 Oatsmaster wrote: WHat you want wave?
Geript flipped town. Sucks. Move on.
If you are asking why Geript as opposed to other people, basically what I explained earlier. He didn't post before I slept so yeah, that's where my read was.
On June 13 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm scum reading sulfurus because you are sleeping people onto bats, means you don't really tthink bats is mafia, but your town reads do so you value their opinion over yours.
Bats isn't gonna shit up the thread lol, that's an empty threat. I was totally right about geript switching off moose btw. I think geript is easily mafia.
This is believable actually, and he had a good reason to switch I suppose, I just didn't bother to look back initially when accusing him. This also fits with his 'more-likely-townplay' of switching reads around constantly.
Now comes the shitstorm. I'm fine with Bat's vote so I'm not going to bother here. Important to note though that he already has 3 people on him when Bats votes so scum can now see this is as a likely mislynch.
Trfel - First to jump on the wake of Bat's 'discovery.' Eh. On looking through I thought he was on Rels all day and then dropped his amazing case instantly in favor of even after this post:
On June 14 2015 04:14 Trfel wrote: Ugh, I just don't quite feel right about lynching geript or Damdred. They're both incredible players, and it's the weekend, so it's unfair to expect normal activity levels from them.
##vote Rels
But he was onto batsnacks as well at one point. It does kinda look as though he almost doesn't believe his own case at times because of his initial dropoff from Rels onto bats, then as bats lost ground back onto rels again and onto Geript. He does put a LOT of effort into his rels push when he is on him though so at the same time it seems doubtful that this is a half-assed push where he was just looking for an out. Not sold either on this one. Also liked his activity around the lynch and his first post after flip.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Bats...I am so proud of you
Interested to hear what bats himself thinks here of the people who sheeped him actually. I take it you were too excited it about your lynch at the time to see all of this going down?
Moosy - Fine with him. Has a monster filter, constant discussion of the lynch while it was going down.
Ruxxar - Ah, I remember pointing this one out before.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Wow bats... I'm speechless.
I had you and geript as my top two scum.
I refuse to believe that you would bus your own scum teammate this hard. You really redeemed yourself here in my eyes.
I'll have to change my alignment of you to town and change my vote to geript.
##Unvote batsnacks ##Vote geript
I also remember not liking his post after the flip. Just looks like he's making more excuses and feigning...something. Ugh I know I've been calling him town due to the moosy business but the more I watch those two the more I think SOMETHING has to be going on here. Ruxxar more likely scum than moosy by a huge factor.
Scott - Actually just ninjavoted. Didn't even say a thing about Geript. That's interesting. Ballsy for scum but apparently nobody picked up on it so far?
Personally thinking Damdred and Ruxxar come out looking the worst on geript train analysis. Both jump on after the train has begun to gather steam and help to push it past the crucial point (Damdred more so than even Ruxxar) But ruxxar's posting around it was pretty terrible while Damdred's is minimal and while not great, I COULD just see it coming from non-self-conscious town.
I'm kind of glad I did, when I came back to the thread the flip was already there. I could've got modkilled for failure to vote with the hour earlier confusion. Batsnacks case made sense at the time and I sheeped it.
8. This post were I put the theory of moosy and scott being mafia for acclaiming noobking's super play, but not following his last will. This is kinda weak on its own, but in addition to the other points that theory makes sense. Conclusion: Mafia
So I put the replies in bold above, just so they aren't missed, people have been before. You have put a lot of effort in to your thoughts - espically how you have the same thoughts on Kickstart. Let me finish reading the thread. ##Unvote
Reading your answers, I see that points 3, 4 and 5 of my case were super weak, so I'll discard them from my mind. I'll discard point 6 too 'cause you explained it.
The 4 other points still stand. plants' first post is bad, you can't do anything about it. You jumped on my wagon on a weak case - to me you're the second most opportunistic guy to jump on my train, the first being Kickstarter. You have a good explanation for your last minute vote on geript afterwards, but as we cannot know if that's true that's moot. Your vote is still opportunistic. And you praised noobking's last will but didn't follow it.
You answered well to the case. To me you're still the second most likely mafia, but I would lynch KS over you at the moment.
On June 16 2015 05:22 WaveofShadow wrote: I've already said I haven't read much of Rels' posts. Top scum is still absolutely Sulf. If the only reason to not lynch him is because 'oh well he did this shit in another game,' then that's not nearly enough.
Not much else has changed to be honest, other than the fact that I'd probably bump Rels up on my list to that muddle of 'null' players. Other two are more than likely amongst Damdred/you(ruxxar)/Rels/Scott/Kickstart. I think Oats re-gets a townread for feels and you move down slightly because I dunno how you could be voting moosy and calling Sulf town without some shenanigans going on.
And why won't you read rels posts?!.... As a town it's your duty to stay informed so you can make a judgement based on as much information as possible.
Because they're long, boring, and mostly useless clearly. Can you explain to me what makes them particularly important in the grand scheme of things?
You're right you shouldn't read my defense posts if I'm not your lynch target. They're useless by themselves. You should read the cases I made on the other people though, and reply to them with what you agree and disagree. They're not very long.
On June 13 2015 09:00 Rels wrote: Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
Yeah you're totally wrong and that is points against you. The only time I posted nonsense that game was at night and that's because I was the cop and did not want to get killed.
Definitely not true. I expect he is talking about this steaming pile here, which was posted early in Day 1, and not at night:
batsnacks wrote: above is THE JOYOUS, LAKE below is KEEPING STILL, MOUNTAIN
Influence. Success.
When a weak element is above (the lake) and a strong element is below (the mountain), their powers attract each other so that they unite. This brings about success, for all success depends on the effect of mutual attraction
Perseverance furthers.
By keeping still within while experiencing joy without, one can prevent the joy from going to excess and hold it within proper bounds. This is the meaning of, "Perseverance furthers."
To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune
Heaven and earth attract each other and thus all creatures come into being. From the attractions they exert we can learn the nature of all beings in heaven and on earth.
A lake on the mountain: The image of influence. Thus the superior man encourages people to approach him By his readiness to receive them.
A mountain with a lake on its summit is stimulated by the moisture from the lake. It has this advantage because its summit does not jut out as a peak but is sunken. The image counsels that the mind should be kept humble and free, so that it may remain receptive to good advice. People soon give up counseling a man who thinks that he knows everything better than anyone else.
The influence shows itself in the calves of the legs. Misfortune. Tarrying brings good fortune.
In movement, the calf of the leg follows the foot; by itself it can neither go forward nor stand still. Since the movement is not self-governed, it bodes ill. One should wait quietly until one is impelled to action by a real influence. Then one remains uninjured.
Your philosophical post about danger in this game looks a bit like a forced attempt to duplicate the same kind of nonsense you kicked off the last game with (since it was very recent, and people will remember you were Town).
Meanwhile, you never answered my question about approximately how many times you've been assigned a scum role in these games.
[...] Also I only provide iching commentary when I'm town so I thank you for bringing this up.
That's true. I found 3 games where I did something similar, all of them town. Posts in spoiler if you're curious. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 08:11 Trfel wrote: First, my computer internet died, so I am on my phone.
Second, Moosy, I do think that ruX could be mafia, but I feel that Rels is more likely.
Though I might actually want to lynch bats instead. His quick agreement with me is unexpected, his play doesnt feel like his town meta.
Your case is the best most compelling thing that has been posted yet??? Also you can't meta me remember what happened last time you tried?
Last time I tried was the Ver game and I was right.
I have learned a thing or two since my first game of mafia ever, thank you very much.
You don't have to believe this is my normal town meta because it's not, but you can't believe my scum meta is to post this much. I am a 1 page per day scum poster not a post more than anyone else scum poster.
That's not as extreme as he's saying, but it is true. In particular, look at the size of the filters of these two games. In both he got lynched D1. Can you guess in which one he was scum ?
If you don't wanna play the guessing game: he has two times more post in the first game, where he was town.
Conclusion By meta I don't think BS is mafia this game.
##Unvote
2. The two cases he did were pretty good I felt. I mean, there were on geript and me, so they were wrong; but the cases themselves were good, exploiting contradiction each time. + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
On June 15 2015 05:12 batsnacks wrote: Alright Rels is mafia. His read progression on sulfurus goes like this:
First I voted sulfurus for voting me opportunistically. Rels responds to me saying that if it were anyone but sulfurus then he would consider this scummy, but since sulfurus voted opportunistically last game then it is not scummy.
Rels repeats that if anyone but sulfurus had voted me the way that sulfurus did, he would consider it scummy. However since sulfurus voted SL and Breshke opportunistically last game as town, then he is not scum reading sulfurus for it.
Yeah I would have agreed if someone else voted you like that. But Sulfu did that day 1 last game. On Breshke and SL.
Rels suddenly says he is suspicious of sulfurus for voting opportunistically, directly contradicting two posts he made earlier explaining that sulfurus voting opportunistically does not make him mafia since he did the same thing in his last game.
No idea who I want to lynch. Two of my three town reads are voting sulfurus. I'm suspicious of Sulfu for two reasons: - The "case" on KS on his first post doesn't exist - The vote on BS is opportunist
Rels votes geript and says if the wagon on geript doesn't go anywhere, that he will be switching to sulfurus.
On June 13 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel's case is still good but I'm now voting sulfur for misrepresenting my play last game (twice) and now voting me opportunistically.
##unvote ##vote Sulfurus
If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game.
On June 13 2015 09:07 Rels wrote: Town lean Trfel Sulfu Oats ruxxar
On June 13 2015 08:57 batsnacks wrote: Trfel's case is still good but I'm now voting sulfur for misrepresenting my play last game (twice) and now voting me opportunistically.
##unvote ##vote Sulfurus
If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game. And I don't think he misreprented your plays. Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
You just voted me for saying something you agree with!!!
Yeah I would have agreed if someone else voted you like that. But Sulfu did that day 1 last game. On Breshke and SL.
On June 13 2015 18:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Did you see the quality of those posts though. Cause in this game, there is quantity but practically no quality.
I agree. But quality is not the reason I'm unvoting him.
On June 13 2015 18:19 Oatsmaster wrote: I think it's pretty unlikely we have a PGO. Hey rels, what made you look through bats last few games? Also, who do you want to lynch now?
No idea who I want to lynch. Two of my three town reads are voting sulfurus. I'm suspicious of Sulfu for two reasons: - The "case" on KS on his first post doesn't exist - The vote on BS is opportunist
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
On June 13 2015 22:42 Damdred wrote: Yeah bats is a completely stupid lynch, here. (Never use this again bats is to smart a player)
If you look at bats last scum/town games you see a few things crop up.
1) as scum once it's clear that he is going to,be one of,l the leading wagons his care factor diminishes to a few posts randomly complaining without doing anything about it or pushing his own thoughts.
In comparison here he is pushing what he thinks explaining why he's town,and,not giving,up. I liked bats when I first read his filter. He keeps pushing the thread.
2) as scum, he has developed an ability to have weak scum reads to a point.
Here he has well reasoned or seemingly well reasoned reasons for calling people out.
3) resorts to trolling as scum when he's caught.
He's not doing this here.
Bats is town, besides meta. Biggest filter, most controversial figure d1. Okish reads.
Leave the bats alone
BUT There is a lot of things that could be wrong with him. They are: 1. The only two cases he made were wrong. In fact, I liked his case on me, but noobking didn't like it at all. + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
How is any of that supposed to be difficult to explain? Geript has at times thought Sulfurus looked scummy. And he has at times thought Rels looked scummy. Most recently, his vote has been on Rels, so that is presumably his top scum read.
You ask geript why Sulfurus would defend Rels if Sulfurus were scum. geript at this point participates in a discussion that PRE-ASSUMES Sulfurus is scum. And he hypothesizes that Sulfurus could be defending a Town player poorly. This would require him to be wrong about Rels being scum. I see nothing wrong with geript acknowledging the possibility that he could be wrong about Rels being scum, and answering a hypothetical question about why Sulfurus would act as he has if HE were scum.
This is almost as hollow as the reasoning Trfel used against Rels. Not quite as hollow. But almost.
2. 90% of his posts are not scumhunting. I think everybody agrees to that. Here is some posts from noobking and oats in the subject: + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 21:51 batsnacks wrote: That isn't a scum read. That is me being concerned that ruxxar and n00b are making mistakes that could cost town the game. They should have a dialog with me before the lynch because I'm town and I can convince them I'm town, or at the very least not the best lynch today.
Okay? We're waiting. Let's have a dialogue. Convince me that you're Town.
Again, I was very excited to see you follow through on your promise to destroy the thread, if you stayed in the vote lead. And the scummiest thing Rels has done this entire game is panic after that promise, and start reading your posts in other games so that he could manufacture a flimsy excuse to move his vote off of you.
As a Town player, I couldn't WAIT for you to blow up the thread. But if I were scum, that idea might be pretty concerning to me. And I might try to figure out a way to get you out of the vote lead, so you'll shut up.
batsnacks wrote: I completely disagree that most of what I've posted is useless I think I have easily contributed more to this game than anyone else
Clicking the "Post" button a bunch of times does not mean you are making worthwhile contributions. You keep yapping about your long filter, but NOTHING kicks, fights, bites and screams more than a mafia player that is in vote trouble without there being concrete evidence behind it. Staring down the noose MIGHT spur an inactive Town player into action, but not nearly as much (or as consistently) as it spurs mafia players into action.
You talk like people are voting against you only because of your poor open, but that they aren't reassessing bases on the posts you've made since. I've read every post you've made. There isn't anything that counteracts your poor open. You've been told this by multiple players already, so it's not like I am blind to what those others see.
On June 13 2015 18:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Did you see the quality of those posts though. Cause in this game, there is quantity but practically no quality.
3. Meta is not that decisive on judging people. Trfel made me think twice about it here: + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 15:22 Trfel wrote: There is some scum motivation not to do that, but there's a lot more scum motivation TO do it. A whole lot more than the town motivation, anyway.
Please explain further. What is the scum motivation to do that?
It makes him look active, and makes him look like he's doing stuff. Posts without purpose.
On June 13 2015 16:20 n00bKing wrote: Rels? Dunno, man. He looks a lot to me like he did in Newbie X, when he was Town. But some of the veterans in this game are seeing stuff from him they don't like. I'm not ready to try and pass judgment on Rels, I'll just have to keep watching him.
On June 13 2015 09:00 Rels wrote: Last game D1 you didn't do a whole lot either if I remember correctly. In both game you also posted a nonsense post to gauge reactions.
Yeah you're totally wrong and that is points against you. The only time I posted nonsense that game was at night and that's because I was the cop and did not want to get killed.
Definitely not true. I expect he is talking about this steaming pile here, which was posted early in Day 1, and not at night:
batsnacks wrote: above is THE JOYOUS, LAKE below is KEEPING STILL, MOUNTAIN
Influence. Success.
When a weak element is above (the lake) and a strong element is below (the mountain), their powers attract each other so that they unite. This brings about success, for all success depends on the effect of mutual attraction
Perseverance furthers.
By keeping still within while experiencing joy without, one can prevent the joy from going to excess and hold it within proper bounds. This is the meaning of, "Perseverance furthers."
To take a maiden to wife brings good fortune
Heaven and earth attract each other and thus all creatures come into being. From the attractions they exert we can learn the nature of all beings in heaven and on earth.
A lake on the mountain: The image of influence. Thus the superior man encourages people to approach him By his readiness to receive them.
A mountain with a lake on its summit is stimulated by the moisture from the lake. It has this advantage because its summit does not jut out as a peak but is sunken. The image counsels that the mind should be kept humble and free, so that it may remain receptive to good advice. People soon give up counseling a man who thinks that he knows everything better than anyone else.
The influence shows itself in the calves of the legs. Misfortune. Tarrying brings good fortune.
In movement, the calf of the leg follows the foot; by itself it can neither go forward nor stand still. Since the movement is not self-governed, it bodes ill. One should wait quietly until one is impelled to action by a real influence. Then one remains uninjured.
Your philosophical post about danger in this game looks a bit like a forced attempt to duplicate the same kind of nonsense you kicked off the last game with (since it was very recent, and people will remember you were Town).
Meanwhile, you never answered my question about approximately how many times you've been assigned a scum role in these games.
[...] Also I only provide iching commentary when I'm town so I thank you for bringing this up.
That's true. I found 3 games where I did something similar, all of them town. Posts in spoiler if you're curious. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 08:11 Trfel wrote: First, my computer internet died, so I am on my phone.
Second, Moosy, I do think that ruX could be mafia, but I feel that Rels is more likely.
Though I might actually want to lynch bats instead. His quick agreement with me is unexpected, his play doesnt feel like his town meta.
Your case is the best most compelling thing that has been posted yet??? Also you can't meta me remember what happened last time you tried?
Last time I tried was the Ver game and I was right.
I have learned a thing or two since my first game of mafia ever, thank you very much.
You don't have to believe this is my normal town meta because it's not, but you can't believe my scum meta is to post this much. I am a 1 page per day scum poster not a post more than anyone else scum poster.
That's not as extreme as he's saying, but it is true. In particular, look at the size of the filters of these two games. In both he got lynched D1. Can you guess in which one he was scum ?
If you don't wanna play the guessing game: he has two times more post in the first game, where he was town.
Conclusion By meta I don't think BS is mafia this game.
##Unvote
Your first point is technically correct, but it doesn't mean anything. It's extremely easy for mafia!batsnacks to post this as scum. One good example of this is Onegu, who was known for a long time to only claim VT as town, and never as scum. Well, one game he did it as scum. If someone has a meta that "makes" them town, it's useless unless there's an actual reason why they can't do the same thing as scum.
As for the second point, again, the post quality is important, not just the quantity.
Damdred's post on batsnacks is really interesting, those are things that I didn't check. However, comparing the two games that Rels linked, I don't see batsnacks fitting Damdred's description that much. Notably because while he's always been a leading wagon, it's always been very close. Looking at Imperial Mafia (town!batsnacks), I noticed that batsnacks' filter at End of Day was extremely productive and focused, and I'm not seeing that from batsnacks this game. I'll take a look at batsnacks' scum reads now.
On June 14 2015 03:08 batsnacks wrote: Here are the final vote counts from the first two days of newbie X, notice how sulfurus is off doing his own thing
Why does this matter? He did something generally considered to be bad, he got lynched for it, and I'd really hope he didn't do the same thing in his next game.
Were his reasons for voting those people original, or sheeping others (even if not in the final vote)?
So ... batsnacks has the longest filter in the game, and he's the player I am the least sure about. My opinion of him can change very easily in good or bad depending on his actions and other's reactions. Conclusion: Null
Damdred OK this is going to be quick. I cannot read the guy town because he almost didn't do any scumhunting. His only analysis post is this one: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 12:15 Damdred wrote: Damdreds Late night Reads List:
Firstly i'm going to take out the wagons that ended up with 0 votes to start with, and also the scratched people presently. I'll dedicate a post later to talking about vote changes (maybe in this post on some people) to determine some alignments if I can.
First thing I do is color in Geript with a bold and a green since hes flipped to the thread.
Secondly since im not confirmed to the thread but to myself (go me) i'm putting myself as green. I'd rather not have to right out a town case currently for myself so just trust me for now.
Two easiest town reads are now colored in green for me.
Batsnacks I've covered pretty extensively in my earlier filter, if you want the longer case its in my filter go read it a bit. But to add on a bit, Bats made a decent point and pushed it. Thought he found a slip and pushed it, he led the lynch on Geript even fi he flipped town. Scum bats is really back seat he does try to cause confusion. However at this end of day he was really useful he was calm and acted really towny with how he went about the lynch. This guy might be the most town I've ever seen Bats be before, if he did this as scum i'm pretty impressed.
Trfel, is town also. Made some excellent points on Rel, but ended up sheeping Batsnacks around the same time I did. The posts that Trfel did make were some of the longer cases I thought were pretty good and factually sound. Though some people might disagree with them It hought they were really good and showed a clear understanding of what was going on. Also Trfel knows my kryptonite somewhat and how to abuse me in a thread without seeming scummy for it and chose to try to work with me and give me time instead of coming down hard on me. Its also partially a tone read and how the involvement in the thread is going. i'm pretty confident that Trfel is town here.
Ruxxar is one of my scum leans currently. I won't take credit for the initial find of the post where he switched votes from bats to Geript. (Wave gets credit for pointing it out) He shows very little consistency with how his reads change and how he approaches the thread, for example when bats makes his push on Geript he showed very little suspicion for someone that was hard scum reading Bats and thought that he was the best lynch in the entire game. Also he gave kickstart a town lean for almost no reason when he was suspicious of him before. He also has expanded his filter with a lot of talk about speculation and about claims and how to handl blues etc. Overall I think hes decently scummy and should be lookd at harder.
WaveofShadow is another decent town lean currently. He shows genuine interest in figuring out peoples alignments, he pushes on people and is searching to find scum when he is here. One of the negatives I have is that sometimes he feels a little passive in the way that he does things at the same time. I know for instance he asked me several questions that I just didn't answer at the time and still haven't answered (I believe) and even though I've been in the thread with him he just hasn't cared. So he worries me a little bit but i'm generally paranoid of him also, plus he soft pushed geript a little bit.
Moosy I think is town, I would look at him more later, and its mostly just a gut feeling. He feels really honest to me and just confused at points. I think hes town.
Tone read on scott, and his postings just feel like his towny self. Good direction I feel like at points.
I am going to end this here for now, I don't have the attention span to go through everything. I'll try to finish reads before the morning on the others. I'm still leaning scum on Rels and kickstarts activity is worrying and lack of real content compared to his other games.
And while there is nothing in here scummy, there is only one mafia accusation that I partially disagree with. It's true that I don't like ruxxar's posts about blues, and his vote could be opportunistic. To me that's not enough to make him mafia, especially when several people's vote could be considered opportunistic.
Nevertheless I can not read this guy mafia either because his posts in general seem genuine. In particular, I loved this post:
On June 14 2015 09:09 Damdred wrote: Umm Idk why Geript as confirmed town would have better reads than say... anyone left alive?
Like I can understand parssing what Geript said see who voted him why (good catch wave) but I don't think,scum,bats leads the lynch onto Geript,like this. Nor do I think we should really debate if the big should shoot him or not
On June 16 2015 07:16 WaveofShadow wrote: What seems genuine or 'observation-y' about that post you highlighted Rels? I just see a post that anyone with common sense and experience would post, of either alignment.
It seems genuine to me 'cause a lot of people were sucking noobking's dick when he died. In my mind it's easy for mafia to say how great a town dead player was, to gain town cred. You're right it's not a super town tell. That's why damdred is null for me actually.
On June 16 2015 07:16 batsnacks wrote: I don't know why Rels is going through the motions with this actually. He responded to what was brought against him his time would be better spent playing the game again instead of going through these tedious null reads.
The serious answer ? Cause I promised to, so I wanna finish. I agree the last 2 analysis and the one coming are super lackluster.
But it's not useless to me. Rereding your, damdred's and oat's filters put some things in my memory. I just can't explain them nor have I good reads on you 3 for the time being.
Oatsmaster OK I'm super tired so this one is going to be shit. I think he's town cause I like how he questions every post he sees that is weird in his mind. And I have the feeling reading his filters that I saw his train of thought in front of me. That's it. Conclusion: Town lean
OK I learned something today. Yeah for newbie game.
First, I had fun reading people attacks on me and try to see which one were well spirited and which one felt forced. Second, I learned things rereading the game, and I should keep doing that. Third, I feel my cases on my hard scums reflect exactly what I have in mind. But my cases on my town leans were almost useless to be nice, and my cases on my null reads were useless. I finished these cases 'cause I promised, but in the future I will only do that for suspicious people.
So. At the end of the day, I think my case on Kickstart was the strongest. I also think that the strongest point on this case is that he jumped on the train to lynch me so opportunistically that it screams scum. My train was super easy to hop on at the time, so I feel people doing so too easily are really suspicious; so Kickstart is my vote for the moment.
On June 16 2015 07:11 Damdred wrote: Why is bring wrong a negative exactly?
It doesn't by itself. I just don't want to forget that the only cases you made were wrong. Doesn't make you mafia.
Don you think,generally town is usually more often wrong than scum?
I think it's easy for mafia to make good looking cases on townie, starting from a simple contradiction and blowing it out of proportion.
Itsactually much,much harder as mafia to,contribute in the same way as town. I read an amazing post at one point that explained why being scum is difficult. Its much more psychologically draining than most people think.
Dunno about forum mafia, but I enjoy being werewolf IRL. Maybe that's different in forum games where you have to keep your lies in your mind for several days in a row.
On June 16 2015 11:08 Kickstart wrote: People are just desperate to get a lynch on me, to the point they are making stuff up. I never promised anything, people saying I did is a lie. [...]
You actually did. Please read my case on you.
On June 15 2015 23:19 Rels wrote: Kickstart I think the guy is mafia for these reasons: 1. Lots of fluff and not a lot of analysis. I didn't believe that before rerading his filter but that is true: there is almost no analysis in it. 2. This case is super forced 4 hours into the game. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 11:16 Kickstart wrote: Here's something of a mini-case on why I am scum reading ruXxar atm.
First several posts he seems quite concerned about the scum team! Why is this. This doesn't seem to be normal new town player concerns to me.
On June 12 2015 07:26 ruXxar wrote: I actually believe in the right of individual freedom, so as long as the mafia just stick to themselves and don't hurt anyone, I don't mind having them around .
*slaps himself*
No, stop daydreaming ruxx!
Then there was his answering question slip which has been the topic of much debate. It is really weird because I said I don't like people answering questions directed at others, Trfel asks me why, and then ruxx answers -______-. I think a townie would read that and be wary of answering because they see me saying that answering for others is a bad thing. My take on it is that ruxx maybe saw an easy opportunity to seem helpful and didn't even pay attention to the interaction going on there.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
Another post which doesn't seem like a town mindset at all to me. Why would town try to defend lying. This seems like scum saying "lying is ok" but trying to make it seem like something town just does all the time too, it isn't, and this is scum mindset imo.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like liars? Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests. This goes for both sides. Deception is not a thing reserved only for mafia.
What you meant to say is that you don't like liars that have conflicting interests from you.
And yet another on the lying thing that I just don't see a townie making. This just stinks of scum mindset to me again.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
Scum lean.
What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement. I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.
So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
Wait....
So you are serious about your explanation for not answering a question directed at someone else, because it helps them answer the question if they are scum. But in saying this, you answered a question directed at someone else, your scum read?
This explanation is going to be good.
Yes my answer was serious.
I see now how that actually denied us information from kick start. It was a mistake on my part to actually answer that question.
Can you please clarify, why are you scumreading Kickstart?
I didn't like his statement about not liking liars.
This whole game is based on the concept of deception. If you don't like that aspect of the game, why are you here? You might claim that you like hunting lying mafia, But it's not a given beforehand what role you will be, so that doesn't make sense either.
I have no prior info about any of the players here, so he might have some personal conviction for why he said that, but to me it didn't seem like a genuine well thought through statement.
And here is a ton of WIFOM that is literally useless to town. Ended with a pointless question to me. Again to me it is just obvious why as town you don't like people to lie, I even explained a few times what I meant by the statement, so he is either not reading or pressing a nonsensical point.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
RuXxar provided a reasonable explanation for why it is bad to answer questions directed at other people. However, this explanation was an answer to my question directed at Kickstart. In this very post, he's doing why he says that this is bad.
He's confident enough to ignore any potential purpose that I had for this question, confident enough in Kickstart's alignment that he doesn't want to hear Kickstart's answer, but not confident enough to leave the post without stating that this is what he thinks, implying that he could be wrong.
2. The person he answered a question for is now his scumread + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
At least that is what I think.
........
The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.
Scum lean.
What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement. I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.
So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
When he is questioned, ruxXar throws out a scum lean. However, he does this on Kickstart, the same player he just answered a question for.
Imagine that ruXxar is town. He sees Kickstart make a post, but doesn't try to look into his alignment. Then he sees me (Trfel) ask a question to Kickstart about that post, then immediately answers the question without stopping to realize that this is the same behavior criticized in his explanation (and he realizes that his play hurt town here). Only after answering my question to Kickstart does he bother to actually think about Kickstart's alignment.
I can't see this coming from a town mindset, from someone who is actually interested in determining people's alignments.
Furthermore, he hasn't made any alignment-related comments about anyone in the game other than Kickstart.
RuXxar is being contradictory, cautious, and is showing a mindset that isn't towny at all. He's not interested in thinking about people's alignments.
I beg to differ.
I've been leading an open and active discussion, answering and asking questions. If I was scum I would be very careful not to expose myself like that. I already admitted that I missed the logical inconsistency in answering kick starts question.
If I had been mafia then I would have been way more careful in considering my response and not make such an obvious error.
The only one that has made any statements that I don't understand / agree with so far is kick start. He's also dodged my question so far.
Liers means if you say you are going to do something but don't when it comes to forum mafia. Also good job breaking one of my rules,
He only explained what it means, not why he said it.
So @ kickstart.
Please explain why you don't like liars.
On its own this post isn't too bad but coupled with his general tone I think this just adds to it. A tell that a lot of new scum players fall for is proclaiming their inexperience. He does this a lot in his earlier posts in the way of justifying various things because of not knowing the game or the players, and in this post he does it again when it is needless imo. Saying I agree would have sufficed but for some reason he feels the need to proclaim his inexperience, something that everyone in the game knows.
On June 12 2015 08:24 ruXxar wrote: I'm not voting on anyone yet, it's way too early for that.
I'm gathering information to base my reads upon. I can only evaluate what I've read so far.
Putting pressure on people is also a good thing, not necessarily because you believe they are scum, but to see how they react in tense situations.
You're right, putting pressure on people can be a good thing, to see how they react.
That's why you're wrong, it is not too early to vote.
I agree.
As said, it's my first time playing mafia and I haven't been in many situations lately where i have to formulate sharp logical arguments.
I am usually forgiving to players I don't know or newer players, but to me there are so many things that seem scummy to me that I can't do that in ruXxars case.
Thoughts?
3. Posted a lot day 1 and left a good impression on everyone, then left. Came back multiple times with an excuse but didn't a whole lot and left again. Even worse, promised something and never did it. + Show Spoiler +
First time he came, he promised an analysis of bats filter that never came.
On June 13 2015 05:37 Kickstart wrote: Damn I went back to sleep and slept forever. 2 replacements already whata game. Still think ruXxar is slightly scummy but several people think he isn't so that's that. Sulfuris did come in and logic up his posts but that still leaves me baffled about his initial vote. If he is so concerned with the logic of his arguments and reads then how the hell did he make that post with that mindset. Seems like he did something scummy then tried to logic his way out. Seems the idea of a bats lynch is gathering steam. I actually thought his posting was weird but I have only played with him in 1 other game to go off of. I'll reread his filter at some point before EoD and see if I still get that impression.
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote: First of all I want to apologize for my lack of activity. It isn't fair to everyone that I am usually quite active and in this game I neglected to play for some time. I am town though. Secondly this end of cycle times is getting really stupid, please set a time and stick to it. I thought it was 21:00 originally then it was 1 hour earlier and now its 18:00.
Originally was suspicious mainly of ruxx and sulf. Sulf still scummy ruxx not so much. Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
4. This post seems forced to me too. It's about how he doesn't like noobking's posting. Not sure about that one though. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 16:38 Kickstart wrote: Eh got some beauty sleep so I'm a bit calmer, lets see how long that lasts. Don't like n00bKing's posting in general. First game here, very lectury. Goes out of his way to tell people not to post fluff, yet posts nothing in the way of reads.
@king Who are you suspicious of at the moment, who do you think could be scum?
5. His progression of his read on me is so bad. I think at least one of the people pushing me is doing so because I'm an easy mislynch. And I think kickstart is the most opportunistic person that came into my train. Here is his train of thought regarding me. Please read at least the last quote in the spoiler, it's hilarious as hell. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 16:53 Kickstart wrote: Either Rels is second smartest person in here behind me or he is trying real hard to pocket me D:. Everything hes posted has been in line with my thinking as well.
On June 13 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Wheres does scotts 'wouldn't lynch rels' read come from. U wot. Gosh i rly dont like list posts with no reasoning in them. Are me and rels suspicious to you but not enough to not vote and that is why we aren't in your 'like' list or what.
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote: First of all I want to apologize for my lack of activity. It isn't fair to everyone that I am usually quite active and in this game I neglected to play for some time. I am town though. Secondly this end of cycle times is getting really stupid, please set a time and stick to it. I thought it was 21:00 originally then it was 1 hour earlier and now its 18:00.
Originally was suspicious mainly of ruxx and sulf. Sulf still scummy ruxx not so much. Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
On June 15 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: meant to go ahead and vote.
##Vote Rels
On June 15 2015 07:34 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I don't agree with everything in noobs large post but I tend to agree that the most likely scum trio to me atm is sulf, ruxx, rels. And if one of them flips red it makes the other 2 look even scummier.
On June 15 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Maybe me being suspicious of all of them early day 1 will buy me some town cred???? I need some after being afk so long.
The strongest point of this case to me is the last one. Here is what happened: 1 - you were scumreading ruxx and Sulfu 2 - you jumped on my train and your only reason for doing so was:
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote: First of all I want to apologize for my lack of activity. It isn't fair to everyone that I am usually quite active and in this game I neglected to play for some time. I am town though. Secondly this end of cycle times is getting really stupid, please set a time and stick to it. I thought it was 21:00 originally then it was 1 hour earlier and now its 18:00.
Originally was suspicious mainly of ruxx and sulf. Sulf still scummy ruxx not so much. Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
3 - Then not long ago you came back to the thread and posted this:
On June 16 2015 08:07 Kickstart wrote: Ill be a misslynch guys, if you are that concerned wait for a cop check or something. Should just lynch sulfurus like you were supposed to day 1.
##Unvote ##Vote Sulfuras
Really. It is your fucking first post after coming back. You obviously read the thread 'cause you unvoted me. But you didn't bother respond to the case or explain your thought process.
Yeah I agree AFK != scum. But since his post saying he came back to the thread:
On June 16 2015 08:07 Kickstart wrote: Ill be a misslynch guys, if you are that concerned wait for a cop check or something. Should just lynch sulfurus like you were supposed to day 1.
##Unvote ##Vote Sulfuras
And his last post of the day:
On June 16 2015 14:37 Kickstart wrote: I tend to agree with your reads. Ive been suspicious of ruxx and sulf from the start and theyve not done much to change that. Like I said ruxxars posting is a bit odd so I'm not entirely sure but I would say they are my strongest scum reads. I think Oats play has been suspicious for reasons I pointed out already. I pointed it now but I also pointed it out way early in Day1 because he was doing it then too. Kept asking everyone "Can we just lynch _______?" which I think is weird because it seems like he has had no concern over who the vote is on, ever. Rels was scummy but then he wrote a dissertation so he seems alright for now. Of the veterans I would only be willing to lynch Oats probably, I think we got at least 2 scum in the new players :D. After sulfurus then ruxxar I would have to look at scotts and moosy's filters. Off the top of my head I am more suspicious of scott but that is probably just because he has scum read me and moosy hasnt so I probably need to take a closer look at them both to see how they stand on reads apart from me.
That said it's late and I'm going to sleep~
He posted 9 posts in 6 hours. If he wanted he had the time to explain his thought process, and didn't. It's not like he just posted one post and left. He posted things over 6 hours and didn't explain shit or scumhunt or analyze shit.
Really. His reason for voting me was:
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote: [...] Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
And his reason for unvoting me was, 6 hours after the unvote:
On June 16 2015 14:37 Kickstart wrote: [...] Rels was scummy but then he wrote a dissertation so he seems alright for now. [...]
I was writing this answer, then realized I got a bit long-winded. Spoilered for those who aren't interested. + Show Spoiler [Answer to Rels] +
Haha, well first, I'm in the US.... Should probably go to bed sometime myself XD
Anyway, I'm somewhat suspicious of scott31337 myself.
As to your reasons for scott31337 and MoosyDoosy being scum, I disagree. First, despite n00bKing being a flipped town, and their statement that they liked his analysis, that doesn't mean they have to follow it exactly. N00bKing's post was based on a faulty premise, that our two main wagons some time before the Day 1 lynch contained one scum, therefore Sulfurus was scum. The real contribution that n00bKing provided was the unflipped association case, which while good, is still an unflipped association case and therefore is unreliable. In the same way, scumreading MoosyDoosy and scott31337 for this reason suffers from unflipped association (relies on Sulfurus being mafia). If there's something scummy about these votes, this isn't why.
Furthermore, mafia simply won't be able to get away with choosing their targets based on a dead townie's post, as doing so is terrible and ignores a ton of information that's filled the thread since then. For example, you've started looking a ton more townie since n00bKing made this post. However, Sulfurus doesn't seem likely to put up a lot of resistance to being lynched due to his inactivity. So there is mafia motivation to lynch someone else and then Sulfurus later, though this wouldn't be based on n00bKing's post.
Alright TY. It's true that it is super weak. I agree that them utilizing noobking's post is NAI at best. But what I'm suspicious of is that they both looked like they wanted to jump on my wagon at any cost at the start of the day.
I also made a case on scott, but for now KS is scummier. I'll update my scott case day 3 to see if I still want to lynch him or no.
On June 17 2015 01:28 batsnacks wrote: It's my birthday so... Lynch ruxxar/sulf. Maybe kick if you need to but you better have better reasons then 'afk.' I'll try to check in before deadline.
Happy birthday Yesterday you quoted my case on kickstart, in which there is reason other that just afk. Trfek also made a super good case.
On June 17 2015 01:47 Kickstart wrote:I read through Rels 'case' on me as he asked where he says I promised something, I don't see it.
'cause you didn't read carefully.
On June 13 2015 05:37 Kickstart wrote: [...] Seems the idea of a bats lynch is gathering steam. I actually thought his posting was weird but I have only played with him in 1 other game to go off of. I'll reread his filter at some point before EoD and see if I still get that impression.
On June 17 2015 01:47 Kickstart wrote: Case on me is awful and those pushing it look bad for it. Your case is that I was gone so I can back and went with thread sentiment because no one was on the lynches I thought were scum and that makes me scum? And then when that guy came in and posted a lot I took my vote off of him (like most others) and put it onto scum, which happens to be who I pegged as scum from early on? Yeah, nice case, not. I proposed cop check if you were actually worried about me, but still your only points are that I was afk and then came back to the thread, which is fucking awful as it is in no way alignment indicative. I read through Rels 'case' on me as he asked where he says I promised something, I don't see it. Only thing I see is that I said I would look at sulfurus filter, and I did, and he is scummy. Don't think this wagon warrants much of a defense as it is literally 'Kickstart was afk, came back and went with thread sentiment because he wasn't up to date'. Which is dumb. I have pushed who I thought were scummy, better yet my suspicions and scum reads have remained relatively similar now with perhaps Oats on my list too. This poor attempt at a wagon on me and Trfel and Rels has me concerned but I'll see what else they do as I don't want to omgus people to death.
Yes, to repeat your words, I find that "Kickstart was afk, came back and went with thread sentiment because he wasn't up to date" is enough to be suspicious of you. But that's not all.
Yesterday you spent 9 posts in 6 hours and didn't say anything useful. I explain that here.
On June 16 2015 16:37 Rels wrote: Yeah I agree AFK != scum. But since his post saying he came back to the thread:
On June 16 2015 08:07 Kickstart wrote: Ill be a misslynch guys, if you are that concerned wait for a cop check or something. Should just lynch sulfurus like you were supposed to day 1.
On June 16 2015 14:37 Kickstart wrote: I tend to agree with your reads. Ive been suspicious of ruxx and sulf from the start and theyve not done much to change that. Like I said ruxxars posting is a bit odd so I'm not entirely sure but I would say they are my strongest scum reads. I think Oats play has been suspicious for reasons I pointed out already. I pointed it now but I also pointed it out way early in Day1 because he was doing it then too. Kept asking everyone "Can we just lynch _______?" which I think is weird because it seems like he has had no concern over who the vote is on, ever. Rels was scummy but then he wrote a dissertation so he seems alright for now. Of the veterans I would only be willing to lynch Oats probably, I think we got at least 2 scum in the new players :D. After sulfurus then ruxxar I would have to look at scotts and moosy's filters. Off the top of my head I am more suspicious of scott but that is probably just because he has scum read me and moosy hasnt so I probably need to take a closer look at them both to see how they stand on reads apart from me.
That said it's late and I'm going to sleep~
He posted 9 posts in 6 hours. If he wanted he had the time to explain his thought process, and didn't. It's not like he just posted one post and left. He posted things over 6 hours and didn't explain shit or scumhunt or analyze shit.
On June 15 2015 07:17 Kickstart wrote: [...] Hate to just come in and agree with thread sentiment but rels is scummy as well. Tbh I just skimmed through most of the EoD and the night stuff though.
And his reason for unvoting me was, 6 hours after the unvote:
On June 17 2015 02:40 Kickstart wrote: Alright then lynch me. When I flip green you can be in as useless a place as I said you would be. I ask you to consider what shape town is in if I flip green because I know the answer but it seems you either a) aren't considering it or b) don't care. Both of which are weird. Also I did give some reads earlier on who I thought was scummy and who I would lynch/not lynch. They may not be detailed or as in depth as you would usually expect from me but we've been over the reasons for that, you do what you wish with the information. Anyways really got to go now , just been getting ready. I expect to be back in under 2 hours or so.
Alright. I'm not considering a town with you flipping green 'cause I think you're going to flip red.
If you're really town and gave up on defending, at least leave a last will post like noobking did.
On June 17 2015 02:54 scott31337 wrote: Rels can you elaborate on your post that is like the others now that you are not tired?
I have not idea what "that is like the others" mean but I suppose you want me to expand on Oats.
Sorry I have almost nothing to say. I learned yesterday than doing cases on nullish people is useless. His filter has no analysis but good questions and observations. But he doesn't commit to much. So he's team lean to me. Would not lynch him over a lot of people, but would lynch him over hard town reads like Trfel.
On June 17 2015 03:04 Damdred wrote: So here's the deal, I don't think Ks is going to flip scum. Its mostly a gut feeling and how dickish/non surviving he's playing atm.
I expect more but yeah think he will flip town
Yeah this last post seemed very much like a townie giving up ... But at the same time, a mafia could do exactly that to appear like a townie giving up. So I suppose it's WIFOM.
I can see why everybody is starting to switch. This post screams townie.
On June 17 2015 04:34 Kickstart wrote: I'm here but going to forumulate a big ass post in typical Kickstart fashion because if town is going to be bad and let this lynch on me happen I can at least try to give something so you won't be in a useless spot after the lynch like you would be if it happened right now. Give me some time it takes me awhile to make these big posts, will try and keep up with the thread as I'm working on it.
But what's happening right now seems like mafia doing a last minute switch, especially at a time when the two people doing cases on kickstart (Trfel and me) said they weren't going to be around for deadline.
On June 17 2015 05:00 Damdred wrote: I thought rels was town though.
But that post just is weird to me anytime someone calls someone an easy mislynch or town for no reason bothers mr
It's because I felt all day that if mafia tried a switch, it would be on ruxxar. Lots of people yesterday and today kept mentionning how they would be OK lynching him. The thread sentiment is against him.
On June 17 2015 05:11 MoosyDoosy wrote: Sulfurus's post basically reveals that he would have only lynched Kickstart if everyone else was going to. This basically shows that he's only willing to vote on wagons and never by himself. This correlates to the rest of his play which is disturbing because Mafia generally wishes to follow easy wagons.
Says he's VT in the first post (which is bad anyway, narrows down the blues) and then defends himself about his VT claim saying "Have you seen it done before?" (BTW, Onegu has done it before in XXX I believe) + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 21:53 Oatsmaster wrote: But you dont want to convince me or Trfel?
Ok bats, quote 5 posts you think will help town lynch mafia. So that does not include fluff and defensive posts.
I am actively trying to convince you and would be delighted if Trfel joined in. Trfel at the very least is scuming me for recent things. You, noob, and rux just didn't like my opening.
Im sure you read the most recent Ver game where he caught at least one mafia because of a bad opening post.
Tell me, why did you vote for the vt claim? You think that mafia somehow claims vt in one of the first few posts? Have you see that happen before?
Switches his read on Bats fairly easily, doesn't mention the reason for switching to geript - bails + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 01:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Im going to sleep. Lynch geript.
Wants to go after Moosy now, even though he only mentions a joke post about him and nothing else + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 09:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Let's get moosy tmr
On June 12 2015 22:54 batsnacks wrote: I think I'm going to sheep geript now he was making sense about moose.
##unvote ##vote moosygoosy
So you're voting along with scum? Interesting.
I thought what he said was pretty reasonable. If I were mafia I would have gone after moose's post.
So now we base reads on what mafia was supposed to do and didnt?
Dont like that at all. Dont like that you peaced out and dont care about the game either. You came back here and did nothing but defend yourself. You didnt scumhunt, you didnt advance the thread.
Geript too btw.
I kinda think noob is town because he just keeps on giving advice even after people tell him to stop.
I don't feel like there's anything I need to defend against.
But yeah I do like the idea of basing reads off of what mafia should and shouldn't do. That's why I'm voting moosegoose.
And what exactly did I do to show I'm Mafia? I admit my first post was dumb of me but that was because I'm generally more of a passive poster.
Besides, if you want to go along with basing reads off of what Mafia should and shouldn't do, shouldn't YOU be thinking of geript right now? He makes a post about how Mafia should act, leaves the thread after being accused of Mafia, and then does nothing to defend himself.
You didn't do anything. It's what your scum mates did, or rather didn't do (push you).
LOL So you're not even assuming the same thing Geript apparently did? Geript at least seemed to assume Moosy was town shitposting at first which would make scum jump on for an easy mislynch, but you think he's scum and ALSO think scum would bus him right off the bat?
That's fucking horrible.
Dude, wtf would the Mafias do that for. Shouldn't they try and help each other?
LOL this post. Oh man. I would feel so silly if moose is mafia.
Throws out lynching me with no explanation - I and others ask about it but never replies - what happened to Moosy? + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I quite like lynching Scot.
Meta reason for calling Damdred scum - still doesn't explain the reasoning on me + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 15:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Damdred didn't call me town, he's scum. Also that completely pointless list post that has more townreads than scum reads.
Sulph / damdred mafia.
Scott also maybe.
Goes back to Damdred without reason except for the above? + Show Spoiler +
On June 16 2015 08:41 Oatsmaster wrote: I really dont like this kickstart lynch, its coming up super fast and everyone is supporting it. What happened to lynching ruxxar? I thought that was pretty good. or damdred.
Conclusions -
Oats asks a lot of questions without followup Follows the bandwagon of the thread until KS wants to be lynched Shit reasons for wanting to lynch me and Damdred Unsure what direction he wants to go if he's town Oats could be mafia.
OK so your case basically is: 1. Oats is not commiting to reads or pushes.. 2. Oats talks a lot but doesn't analyse anything. 3. Oats switched without giving reasons.
Mm. I would not lynched over kickstart. But I would lynched over ruxxar.
OK taking 2 minutes thinking about Kickstart, I still think he's mafia.
I admit this post screams townie and made me rethink.
On June 17 2015 04:34 Kickstart wrote: I'm here but going to forumulate a big ass post in typical Kickstart fashion because if town is going to be bad and let this lynch on me happen I can at least try to give something so you won't be in a useless spot after the lynch like you would be if it happened right now. Give me some time it takes me awhile to make these big posts, will try and keep up with the thread as I'm working on it.
But still, all the cases on him are still true. His vote process on me then on Sulfu was opportunistic, he didn't scumhunt at all except a super long case 6 hours into the game on ruxxar, he afk and posted excuses a few times, he had weird stances on the cop thing.
Sorry Kickstart if you are town, but coming with townie posts promising analysis 2 hours before deadline is not enough for me. I see that you are working on a last will post, so if you're town and that's not a ruse to make us switch, that's cool.
On June 17 2015 05:40 ruXxar wrote: I just want to say to everyone that I'm a very passive person in real life. Playing mafia makes me feel so bad because I have to treat a lot of people like shit -_-. It feels very wrong.
I hope you don't take anything I say personally moosy.
Offense taken. My goal is to take you down in this game no matter what.
What. You want to create a bad town atmosphere ? You re not willing to re evaluate all game ?
On June 17 2015 05:27 Rels wrote: Fuck I cant leave the thread when it's like that. Guess I'm gonna be super tired tomorrow. ><
I've only gotten 5 hours combined sleep the last 2 days :/ I don't recommend it at all.
I know that feeling!
Mafia is actually making it worse.
My head is automatically overflowing with thoughts trying to see connections, reasonings and flaws in peoples arguments. Trying to put together alignments.
I just can't put it down and I end lying in bed with my phone next to me, refreshing the last page waiting for a new post.. which never comes.
It's even starting to influence my work, taking over my whole daily life basically. I don't know how I feel about that, but somehow it feels great to be 100% engaged in something for once.
Dude that post is super cool. I know that feeling too. I spent my whole day yesterday just thinking about the game and posting things. It's really not the same watching a game and playing it.
On June 17 2015 05:40 ruXxar wrote: I just want to say to everyone that I'm a very passive person in real life. Playing mafia makes me feel so bad because I have to treat a lot of people like shit -_-. It feels very wrong.
I hope you don't take anything I say personally moosy.
Offense taken. My goal is to take you down in this game no matter what.
What. You want to create a bad town atmosphere ? You re not willing to re evaluate all game ?
I'll re-evaluate but I won't consider ruXxar seriously. Feel free to talk or ask me questions and I'll answer.
Yes Sulfu not voting KS is so weird, when he said he was suspecting KS. If Sulfu and KS are mafia, it's weird that KS is voting Sulfu. If Sulfu mafia and KS town, it's weird that Sulfu is not voting KS. If Sulfu town and KS whatever, it's weird that Sulfu is not voting KS when he thinks he mafia.
Sulfu can you explain your thought process I don't get it.
On June 17 2015 06:16 Kickstart wrote: The sulf not voting me is quite strange but I can see mafia justification for it. Especially since I'm set to be lynched without his vote at the moment.
I don't see mafia nor town justification, it's just weird. The part about you getting lynched without your vote is not true. 3 people has not voted yet, and in this system of vote, if he goes to 4 votes before you do, even if you get up to 4 votes, he s going to be the lynch.
OK guys please read carefully the big post of Kickstart. It's bad. His only points of analysis are: 1 - bunch of quotes of fluff posts from filters 2 - their votes are without explanations or with bad explanations Point 1 is not mafia indicative. Point 2 are you kidding Kickstart ? That's what you did all game.
OK if even Trfel votes Sulfu, I suppose KS is not going to be the lynch today.
I still think Sulfu is town. He wouldn't have hard defended me if he was mafia last day. I still think KS is mafia. One big post one hour before the deadline is not enough to make me change my mind. Especially since there is no summary of any cases, it's a lot of words to say very few reasons. Good reasons, but very few for the size of the posts.
On June 17 2015 06:37 Kickstart wrote: Lol. rels you are so ridiculous. My quotes from them illustrates my points about them. If you think my points on them are bullshit bring one up specifically, I cant respond to you if you just say "your entire huge post is bullshit, all of it. As for point 2, I have pushed both ruxxar and sulf this game. My only vote that has been without good explanation was my vote on you. Now I can see the OMGUS from you onto me for me coming back from being afk and just joining the wagon on you because that was thread sentiment, but to say that none of my votes have been with no explanations is not true when they all have save for that one instance on you. Take a step back from your OMGUS tunnel on me and realize that me coming back from being afk and going with thread sentiment isn't as scummy as you want it to be.
That may be true and I'll see that tomorrow. But I still think your case is awful as it's a lot of words without a summary. It's hard to see the clear points. The only clear points I saw on both Sulfu and Oats was that their votes was opportunistic.
On June 17 2015 06:42 Kickstart wrote: Well come on. I mean I don't want to make excuses for myself when I have already said it over and over again, but I was fucking afk for eod1 and all of the night1 and into day2 and you expect me to come out with a million points against people when ive missed that much? That is just not reasonable to expect from me. And while I dont have a million points against my scum reads, I do have points that I expanded upon to show what I mean, and I beleive they are good points as to why they could be scum. I gave the reads I could give given how I've played, I apologize that I was afk and probably can't provide as good as a read as if I were here the whole time, but I wasn't here, so expecting that of me is not reasonable.
Can you give me a quick summary on each of your scum then please. Don't worry about justifications, they are in your big post. Just the points.
I guess you are (= I mean, it's always possible that you bus'd your partner ... but I agree with what you said:
On June 17 2015 09:25 Kickstart wrote: @Oats
Again this idea you have that me and sulf are somehow scum buddies just doesnt make sense. We were at each other from minute one at the start of the game and I have had him as my top scum read since the beginning of the game and he has pushed to have me lynched likewise. I mean I guess it is POSSIBLE but definitely not the most likely explanation.
On June 17 2015 07:07 Kickstart wrote: Am i confirmed town now friends?
I guess you are (= I mean, it's always possible that you bus'd your partner ... but I agree with what you said:
On June 17 2015 09:25 Kickstart wrote: @Oats
Again this idea you have that me and sulf are somehow scum buddies just doesnt make sense. We were at each other from minute one at the start of the game and I have had him as my top scum read since the beginning of the game and he has pushed to have me lynched likewise. I mean I guess it is POSSIBLE but definitely not the most likely explanation.
I also had a thought about batsnacks while sleeping. Two days in a row, he was pretty suspicious of Sulfu, but tried to deflect the lynch from him at EOD.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
The second day he proposed to switch to scott. Of course he said it jokingly, so we can't know if it's a joke or a disguised attempt. But the fact is that he repeated it several times in the last hour of the day:
Says he's VT in the first post (which is bad anyway, narrows down the blues) and then defends himself about his VT claim saying "Have you seen it done before?" (BTW, Onegu has done it before in XXX I believe) + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 21:53 Oatsmaster wrote: But you dont want to convince me or Trfel?
Ok bats, quote 5 posts you think will help town lynch mafia. So that does not include fluff and defensive posts.
I am actively trying to convince you and would be delighted if Trfel joined in. Trfel at the very least is scuming me for recent things. You, noob, and rux just didn't like my opening.
Im sure you read the most recent Ver game where he caught at least one mafia because of a bad opening post.
Tell me, why did you vote for the vt claim? You think that mafia somehow claims vt in one of the first few posts? Have you see that happen before?
Switches his read on Bats fairly easily, doesn't mention the reason for switching to geript - bails + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 01:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Im going to sleep. Lynch geript.
Wants to go after Moosy now, even though he only mentions a joke post about him and nothing else + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 09:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Let's get moosy tmr
On June 12 2015 22:54 batsnacks wrote: I think I'm going to sheep geript now he was making sense about moose.
##unvote ##vote moosygoosy
So you're voting along with scum? Interesting.
I thought what he said was pretty reasonable. If I were mafia I would have gone after moose's post.
So now we base reads on what mafia was supposed to do and didnt?
Dont like that at all. Dont like that you peaced out and dont care about the game either. You came back here and did nothing but defend yourself. You didnt scumhunt, you didnt advance the thread.
Geript too btw.
I kinda think noob is town because he just keeps on giving advice even after people tell him to stop.
I don't feel like there's anything I need to defend against.
But yeah I do like the idea of basing reads off of what mafia should and shouldn't do. That's why I'm voting moosegoose.
And what exactly did I do to show I'm Mafia? I admit my first post was dumb of me but that was because I'm generally more of a passive poster.
Besides, if you want to go along with basing reads off of what Mafia should and shouldn't do, shouldn't YOU be thinking of geript right now? He makes a post about how Mafia should act, leaves the thread after being accused of Mafia, and then does nothing to defend himself.
You didn't do anything. It's what your scum mates did, or rather didn't do (push you).
LOL So you're not even assuming the same thing Geript apparently did? Geript at least seemed to assume Moosy was town shitposting at first which would make scum jump on for an easy mislynch, but you think he's scum and ALSO think scum would bus him right off the bat?
That's fucking horrible.
Dude, wtf would the Mafias do that for. Shouldn't they try and help each other?
LOL this post. Oh man. I would feel so silly if moose is mafia.
Throws out lynching me with no explanation - I and others ask about it but never replies - what happened to Moosy? + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I quite like lynching Scot.
Meta reason for calling Damdred scum - still doesn't explain the reasoning on me + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 15:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Damdred didn't call me town, he's scum. Also that completely pointless list post that has more townreads than scum reads.
Sulph / damdred mafia.
Scott also maybe.
Goes back to Damdred without reason except for the above? + Show Spoiler +
On June 16 2015 08:41 Oatsmaster wrote: I really dont like this kickstart lynch, its coming up super fast and everyone is supporting it. What happened to lynching ruxxar? I thought that was pretty good. or damdred.
Conclusions -
Oats asks a lot of questions without followup Follows the bandwagon of the thread until KS wants to be lynched Shit reasons for wanting to lynch me and Damdred Unsure what direction he wants to go if he's town Oats could be mafia.
OK so your case basically is: 1. Oats is not commiting to reads or pushes.. 2. Oats talks a lot but doesn't analyse anything. 3. Oats switched without giving reasons.
Mm. I would not lynched over kickstart. But I would lynched over ruxxar.
The first two points are definitely true and describes you as someone active but not useful. I'm not sure the third point is that true. I think it's just the consequence of you not describing your thought process at all time.
Anyway, I don't think scott's case makes you 100% mafia, but it brings good points.
On June 17 2015 18:30 Rels wrote: It can be summarized in three points I think (scott correct me if I'm wrong):
On June 17 2015 05:25 Rels wrote:
On June 17 2015 05:18 scott31337 wrote:
Oatsmaster could be mafia
Says he's VT in the first post (which is bad anyway, narrows down the blues) and then defends himself about his VT claim saying "Have you seen it done before?" (BTW, Onegu has done it before in XXX I believe) + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 21:53 Oatsmaster wrote: But you dont want to convince me or Trfel?
Ok bats, quote 5 posts you think will help town lynch mafia. So that does not include fluff and defensive posts.
I am actively trying to convince you and would be delighted if Trfel joined in. Trfel at the very least is scuming me for recent things. You, noob, and rux just didn't like my opening.
Im sure you read the most recent Ver game where he caught at least one mafia because of a bad opening post.
Tell me, why did you vote for the vt claim? You think that mafia somehow claims vt in one of the first few posts? Have you see that happen before?
Switches his read on Bats fairly easily, doesn't mention the reason for switching to geript - bails + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 01:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Im going to sleep. Lynch geript.
Wants to go after Moosy now, even though he only mentions a joke post about him and nothing else + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 09:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Let's get moosy tmr
On June 12 2015 22:54 batsnacks wrote: I think I'm going to sheep geript now he was making sense about moose.
##unvote ##vote moosygoosy
So you're voting along with scum? Interesting.
I thought what he said was pretty reasonable. If I were mafia I would have gone after moose's post.
So now we base reads on what mafia was supposed to do and didnt?
Dont like that at all. Dont like that you peaced out and dont care about the game either. You came back here and did nothing but defend yourself. You didnt scumhunt, you didnt advance the thread.
Geript too btw.
I kinda think noob is town because he just keeps on giving advice even after people tell him to stop.
I don't feel like there's anything I need to defend against.
But yeah I do like the idea of basing reads off of what mafia should and shouldn't do. That's why I'm voting moosegoose.
And what exactly did I do to show I'm Mafia? I admit my first post was dumb of me but that was because I'm generally more of a passive poster.
Besides, if you want to go along with basing reads off of what Mafia should and shouldn't do, shouldn't YOU be thinking of geript right now? He makes a post about how Mafia should act, leaves the thread after being accused of Mafia, and then does nothing to defend himself.
You didn't do anything. It's what your scum mates did, or rather didn't do (push you).
LOL So you're not even assuming the same thing Geript apparently did? Geript at least seemed to assume Moosy was town shitposting at first which would make scum jump on for an easy mislynch, but you think he's scum and ALSO think scum would bus him right off the bat?
That's fucking horrible.
Dude, wtf would the Mafias do that for. Shouldn't they try and help each other?
LOL this post. Oh man. I would feel so silly if moose is mafia.
Throws out lynching me with no explanation - I and others ask about it but never replies - what happened to Moosy? + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I quite like lynching Scot.
Meta reason for calling Damdred scum - still doesn't explain the reasoning on me + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 15:18 Oatsmaster wrote: Damdred didn't call me town, he's scum. Also that completely pointless list post that has more townreads than scum reads.
Sulph / damdred mafia.
Scott also maybe.
Goes back to Damdred without reason except for the above? + Show Spoiler +
On June 16 2015 08:41 Oatsmaster wrote: I really dont like this kickstart lynch, its coming up super fast and everyone is supporting it. What happened to lynching ruxxar? I thought that was pretty good. or damdred.
Conclusions -
Oats asks a lot of questions without followup Follows the bandwagon of the thread until KS wants to be lynched Shit reasons for wanting to lynch me and Damdred Unsure what direction he wants to go if he's town Oats could be mafia.
OK so your case basically is: 1. Oats is not commiting to reads or pushes.. 2. Oats talks a lot but doesn't analyse anything. 3. Oats switched without giving reasons.
Mm. I would not lynched over kickstart. But I would lynched over ruxxar.
The first two points are definitely true and describes you as someone active but not useful. I'm not sure the third point is that true. I think it's just the consequence of you not describing your thought process at all time.
Anyway, I don't think scott's case makes you 100% mafia, but it brings good points.
What exactly is "not committing to reads or pushes? Also, i have analysed a decent amount, but regardless, why is not analysing scummy? Why is switching a lot scummy?
Anyone can answer these questions btw.
Hey I'll let him defend his case himself. "Not committing" and "switching a lot" can be scum indicators.
I don't want nor have the time to analyse cases or people now. The main things I want to do is look through Sulfu's filters and through the votes. So I'll stop arguing about cases and people behaviour until day 3.
On June 17 2015 17:38 Rels wrote: I'll also add moosy [to the town list] for the moment, as I think he was suspicious of Sulfu since the beginning of the game. I need to check this one.
OK I just did that. Moosy casted suspicions on Sulfurus as early as 21 hours into day 1. He was the second to do so, after Kickstart. And where Kickstart's vote was caused by a Sulfu attack on him, moosy's posts about Sulfu weren't, so it wasn't OMGUS. Here are the posts in question:
On June 13 2015 03:40 geript wrote: I can't be surprised if "people didn't call him scum" if there wasn't something good/obvious to call him scum for wubby
To be fair, you did try and point out my post as possible Mafia first, but backed off after Oatsmaster said it might be lynchbait. From there you tried to say it was something that Mafia should have pushed on.
As for new players, I'm seeing only Fake)Plants as a possible Mafia tell while Sulfurus might be one and n00bking is barely suspicious.
On June 13 2015 05:19 MoosyDoosy wrote: Either way, I'll doubt geript will be voted for this round. Right now I'm wondering whether to cast between batsnacks or Sulfurus. The thing is that Sulfurus has contributed little and some of his posts have been questionably empty.
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
On June 13 2015 05:52 MoosyDoosy wrote: Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
Wait, really? Just a few posts earlier, you were "wondering whether to cast between batsnacks or Sulfurus." Suddenly batsnacks drops so low in suspicion for you that you're asking him to help you by making a case against geript?
Um...where did I say I suspected batsnacks? I was always making a case against geript.
The part I put in quotation marks should have been sufficient to jog your memory. I don't think you want to make a habit of forcing people to go back and dig up YOUR posts so that you can remember what YOU said.
The full post was:
On June 13 2015 05:19 MoosyDoosy wrote: Either way, I'll doubt geript will be voted for this round. Right now I'm wondering whether to cast between batsnacks or Sulfurus. The thing is that Sulfurus has contributed little and some of his posts have been questionably empty.
And then just a few posts later, you are asking batsnacks to help you out by making a case against either Sulfurus or geript (when geript, who you say is the one you were "always making a case against", was unmentioned in your earlier post).
Oh yeah, I did say that. It just seemed that no one was willing to pursue a case against geript at that moment, seeing how no one was talking about him and no one voted for him. Both batsnacks and Sulfurus looked fishy at that time too so I was willing to vote for either. Then WaveofShadows came along and helped the case I was making against geript which was why I went back to it. Either way, I still think geript, Sulfurus, and batsnacks look fishy in that order.
So definitely settled the question of moosy for me. He's town for now.
They're not 100% scum indicators. They can be scum indicators. A mafia often tries to be active without contributing. So if someone is active and is not contributive, there is a chance he's mafia.
Not committing means being active but not doing cases or explaining their opinions.
Now Oats, I don't want to spend more time doing this. So if you want to ask a question like "why not doing cases is scummy", please don't.
Actually I have a question. Do you find scott's case on you bad ? Or just wrong ? If bad, can you explain why.
On June 17 2015 21:03 Rels wrote: They're not 100% scum indicators. They can be scum indicators. A mafia often tries to be active without contributing. So if someone is active and is not contributive, there is a chance he's mafia.
Not committing means being active but not doing cases or explaining their opinions.
Now Oats, I don't want to spend more time doing this. So if you want to ask a question like "why not doing cases is scummy", please don't.
Actually I have a question. Do you find scott's case on you bad ? Or just wrong ? If bad, can you explain why.
I already explained why its bad when he asked me. But basically its a bunch of observations. None of it is actually saying why im mafia because of the things ive done, just the things ive done. And its a very generic basic list of "bad" things that people do. Actually, both town and scum do those things. Scott never explained why me doing it is scummy.
So scotts case is bad. And hes mafia.
Alright. I'm not so sure about that last sentence anymore due to moosy's point of scott hammering his vote day 1, before everyone switched to geript. But you're right that his post is more a bunch of observations than a case.
And thinking about it, scott came late end of day 1 and threw away his vote with no explanation. He also came late end of day 2 and voted KS, before switching to Sulfu as the last vote if I recall well, or at least the next to last vote. Suspicious.
On June 17 2015 21:32 batsnacks wrote: You guys remember when ruxxar said to lynch him over sulfurus because he was 100% confident sulfurus was shitty town and not mafia? Good times.
True. It seems super extreme.
I know ruxxar defended Sulfu against an attack a few hours before EOD. I'll check his filter to see if that was the only time or not.
On June 17 2015 21:32 batsnacks wrote: You guys remember when ruxxar said to lynch him over sulfurus because he was 100% confident sulfurus was shitty town and not mafia? Good times.
True. It seems super extreme.
I know ruxxar defended Sulfu against an attack a few hours before EOD. I'll check his filter to see if that was the only time or not.
It's not. He was defending sulfurus early d1.
Mm would like a quote on that. The earlier post from ruxxar defending Sulfu I found is 40 hours into the game, so more late day 1.
OK, in spoiler, the 5 posts I found where ruxxar either soft or hard defends Sulfu. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 23:03 ruXxar wrote: I'm trying to figure out why people are scumreading sulfurus.
I read through his filter and I found nothing to make me read him as either alignment. I went through the voting history to see who voted for him. [...] I still think bats is our best lynch for day 1, but geript has raised a red flag for me. I want to know why he's voting for sulfurus.
On June 15 2015 08:45 Sulfurus wrote: Can someone besides trfel explain to me why he is being so universally town read? I admit looking back his tunnel on rels is better then I thought but that's it. He has spent all his time on this one player and doesn't have good reads on anyone else yet multiple players have put him at the top of their townlists.
Please explain why you wanted to defend rels so badly and also why you wanted to lynch trelf. This is very important information, please make it clear to me because I don't understand it at all.
It's another slip up on Sulfurus's part that he's Mafia.
As we all agree, Rels is scum. Trfel was the first one to suspect Rels and when we all least expected it. Thus, it would be really weird for Trfel to have been a Mafia as he would have been busing over Rels when no one was really looking into him. Thus, what Sulfurus is suggesting makes no sense.
He's trying to defend himself by offering Trfel as lynch but overlooked that point.
Did we not learn from geripts case that mafia slip ups that get caught never are?
On June 16 2015 05:44 ruXxar wrote: Just to make it clear to everyone.
I wouldn't mind if Sulfur was lynched for his complete lack of contribution.
However, I would much rather try to lynch a mafia than a shitty town any day of the week.
On June 16 2015 05:44 ruXxar wrote: Just to make it clear to everyone.
I wouldn't mind if Sulfur was lynched for his complete lack of contribution.
However, I would much rather try to lynch a mafia than a shitty town any day of the week.
Wanna know the easiest way to tell the difference between mafia and shitty town? Be mafia. Like seriously there is no way you should be able to tell the difference as town given what sulfur has provided, unless you are mafia and you actually know sulfur's alignment.
Well except that this would belie that Sulf is actually town and Ruxxar's case is a simple case of TMI, and I have a very hard time believing that Sulf is town.
Associations aside I still don't know if I'd lynch Ruxxar first, but I think at this point I'd do it over Rels. Votecount?
How many people are still on him actually, because that may be some interesting info too considering how quickly the wagon started at the beginning of the day.
If ruxxar and sulfur are both mafia I don't think it's unreasonable to think that ruxxar is defending his scum mate who has all but left their team to fend for themselves. I also don't think it's unreasonable to think that ruxxar's case is TMI. So sulfur's alignment doesn't matter, ruxxar is scummy regardless.
Ok so here's a thought.
You're a mafia. It's an exciting role yes? If you rolled mafia would you not be more inclined to actually stay alive and win than if you were town?
I can understand the IDGAF attitude if you roll vanilla town, but as mafia I would be way more interested in the game.
Why would sulfurus STILL not even ATTEMPT to mount some sort of defense? Is he breaking the rules of the mafia game and not playing to WIN? Does he honestly think that I alone am going to be able to save him? Not in a million years when I'm already suspect as mafia.
On June 17 2015 05:11 MoosyDoosy wrote: Sulfurus's post basically reveals that he would have only lynched Kickstart if everyone else was going to. This basically shows that he's only willing to vote on wagons and never by himself. This correlates to the rest of his play which is disturbing because Mafia generally wishes to follow easy wagons.
On June 16 2015 15:32 Sulfurus wrote: K I just realized that Oats is scummy. ##Vote: Oatsmaster
I'm also getting tired of your bandwagon argument in every post you make. Do you have anything new to come up with?
Again, this is not a case, just observations for tomorrow. To me ruxxar's defenses posts don't seem that bad, except the last one.
To his credit, ruxxar had a phase he suspected Sulfu (more or less night 1), here is a post of him attacking Sulfu. I don't think it means anything, 'cause you can say what you want during the night and change opinions during the day when opinions really matter. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:00 WaveofShadow wrote: This is likely my final reads post before the daypost. This isn't a ranked list per se, all of the same colors/boldness are in the same tier I think though.
Batsnacks Play fits previous town play exactly. I don't see any way in hell he pulls off that geript stuff as scum for multiple reasons, including but not limited to risking him looking like balls after the flip, or drawing further attention to those 'scum-mates' he would have apparently tried to save. I just don't see it.
Moosydoosy For all of the reasons I've stated previously. Moosy's play has just been extremely consistent with a very new player overall. Yes it is POSSIBLE scum can replicate this, but not without messing up somewhere down the line and certainly not with this level of activity. (The caveat here which might have to be looked into eventually that I find kind of interesting is this 'bait' he pulled off recently. Is a Moosy who is so nooby as to not realize geript flipped town for example, able to pull off a play like that? Food for thought, but not tomorrow.)
Trfel Extremely solid play throughout the entirety of D1. Great case on Rels who we should still be lynching. Probably got caught up in geript shenanigans but maybe worth a look into.
RuxxarFor reasons previously stated. Do not agree with nooby even though it is possible it was all some sort of setup. Needs to stop talk about setup though and actually play this game properly to avoid stupid shit like what he pulled.
NoobkingAlso needs to stop talking about setup because it gets us absolutely nowhere. The most experienced of the apparent new players, but as often focused on completely irrelevant matters. When he does scumhunt it is in incredible detail and he is also pretty prominent in thread. Not as big a fan as I was earlier on in the game when I first townread him but still town.
Kickstart I think the problems here have been adequately summarized. He might be worth a vig shot or a check (cop obviously do whatever you want here) because as soon as he was universally townread he left the thread completely and more importantly everyone forgot about him for a long time. Pressure and/or removal likely necessary.
Oats I still lean townish on him because of his early play but he has fallen off immensely. This is alignment non-indicative for him though, but when he HAS been here he hasn't shown anywhere near the degree of effort shown before. I don't treat him the same as Kickstart here (who i'm leaning to the scum side on) because Kickstart started way higher and fell way further.
Damdred Just not even remotely what I'd expect from a player of his calibre. And I'm actually saying that here because he is probably the best player currently in this game. Very little effort, not amazing scumhunting. That being said he has been on the same page as me a lot this game which is a good sign, and I mostly liked his 'late night reads' post. He just needs to do more of it, especially if he's town and I get shot tonight. If he doesn't do more, he is likely coasting on his ability to try when attention is brought up and doesn't actually care what's happening in thread = scum.
Scott Some analysis, but also looking through his filter a lot of jabs and questioning that leads absolutely nowhere (feigning useful activity??) It feels as though he's attempting to figure out the game when around but liek many in the thread there's not a lot to go on. Need a lot more from him to cement things either way.
Rels Probably scum? The points brought up against him are still pretty damning though circumstantially I wonder how likely it is that we had two scum on the block D1 before the geript shenanigans. Still the scummiest of the lot aside from Sulf, so re-evaluate as necessary after Sulf lynch.
Sulfurus Lynch with fire tomorrow. I've called him out, geript called him out, he has still accomplished absolutely nothing warranting a townread. Shows up sporadically to attempt to deflect but does not actually contribute meaningfully.
Lynch target for tomorrow is Sulf. Do not stray the course ladies and gents. As far as the entirety of the team, anyone from the null list could apply here, and it's also possible I am wrong on one of my townreads, but only one. We didn't have an amazing start but we can easily recover from this. Scumhunting was really strong D1 we just have to keep it up as a whole and keep activity up.
On June 14 2015 05:10 Sulfurus wrote: Also don't feel bad if I don't answer your questions. I just don't feel like defending myself since I honestly feel my play is townie enough to speak for itself and I would rather find mafia for you guys to lynch afterwards.
On June 14 2015 05:11 Sulfurus wrote: Like ask me questions if you want but there's no guarantee I'll answer.
Claims he's playing very town, but these statements are incongruent with that. Don't care for this attitude, doesn't seem like a town player wanting to win.
On June 14 2015 05:17 Sulfurus wrote: Are you kidding me! Do you see what trfel has done he just took the lynch away from scum!bats right under our noses and pitted town vs town.
Like what incentive do I have to do anything towny if it's just going to get rels lynched.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Earlier he pushes really hard on batsnacks, which in itself is not strange, but then he uses me as an example of the towniest players in the game, when a lot of people disagreed. It seems like a good excuse to bandwagon on my batsnacks push.
On June 16 2015 05:13 WaveofShadow wrote: I mean I'm just sitting here wondering why we're not lynching the guy who's clearly not playing the game, but that's just me. I am liking all the other stuff going on though. It makes me feel like scum are scrambling because the top townreads haven't really changed a whole lot and are untouchable while the scum are trying to figure out which of the dregs they can safely remove to continue on with the game.
That in itself makes me feel good about Sulf not being targeted by anyone seemingly other than me. That says likely Sulf is scum and all the target switching and scumreads thrown out constantly means we're on the right track (although having to figure out which of all the people tossing around new scumreads are actually scum is blegggh).
He's a shitty town. That doesn't make him mafia.
On June 16 2015 05:44 ruXxar wrote: Just to make it clear to everyone.
I wouldn't mind if Sulfur was lynched for his complete lack of contribution.
However, I would much rather try to lynch a mafia than a shitty town any day of the week.
On June 16 2015 05:13 WaveofShadow wrote: I mean I'm just sitting here wondering why we're not lynching the guy who's clearly not playing the game, but that's just me. I am liking all the other stuff going on though. It makes me feel like scum are scrambling because the top townreads haven't really changed a whole lot and are untouchable while the scum are trying to figure out which of the dregs they can safely remove to continue on with the game.
That in itself makes me feel good about Sulf not being targeted by anyone seemingly other than me. That says likely Sulf is scum and all the target switching and scumreads thrown out constantly means we're on the right track (although having to figure out which of all the people tossing around new scumreads are actually scum is blegggh).
He's a shitty town. That doesn't make him mafia.
On June 16 2015 05:44 ruXxar wrote: Just to make it clear to everyone.
I wouldn't mind if Sulfur was lynched for his complete lack of contribution.
However, I would much rather try to lynch a mafia than a shitty town any day of the week.
are even worst when you read this one along:
On June 17 2015 07:38 ruXxar wrote: It wasn't meant in that way.
I'm just bitter that the whole premise on my theory rested on the fact that Sulfur was actually a good player q.q.
On June 16 2015 05:13 WaveofShadow wrote: I mean I'm just sitting here wondering why we're not lynching the guy who's clearly not playing the game, but that's just me. I am liking all the other stuff going on though. It makes me feel like scum are scrambling because the top townreads haven't really changed a whole lot and are untouchable while the scum are trying to figure out which of the dregs they can safely remove to continue on with the game.
That in itself makes me feel good about Sulf not being targeted by anyone seemingly other than me. That says likely Sulf is scum and all the target switching and scumreads thrown out constantly means we're on the right track (although having to figure out which of all the people tossing around new scumreads are actually scum is blegggh).
On June 18 2015 02:11 Kickstart wrote: [...] God I am terrible at making a point succinctly. [...]
Hehe that is so true. (=
On June 18 2015 02:11 Kickstart wrote: [...] Basically ruxxar made some bullshit list on like the second page of the game where he was suspicious of me and then sulfurus comes in with his first post and votes me and just says 'I agree with ruxxars case', when it was literally nothing; [...]
Wow that's true, another point in favor of Sulfu + ruxxar.
There is so many hints pointing to that now. When I have time I'll make a case rassembling all those hints.
On June 17 2015 17:46 Rels wrote: I also had a thought about batsnacks while sleeping. Two days in a row, he was pretty suspicious of Sulfu, but tried to deflect the lynch from him at EOD.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
The second day he proposed to switch to scott. Of course he said it jokingly, so we can't know if it's a joke or a disguised attempt. But the fact is that he repeated it several times in the last hour of the day:
On June 17 2015 06:19 batsnacks wrote:
On June 17 2015 06:18 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 17 2015 06:17 batsnacks wrote: Dude wtf ruxxar giving me cold feet with his feels.
What do you mean by this?
It means I'm about to vote sulfur and hate myself for it. Unless anyone but me wants to lynch scott which doesn't seem to be the case.
On June 17 2015 06:27 batsnacks wrote: I'm like 75% sure scott is mafia and that's a really high number.
On June 17 2015 06:47 batsnacks wrote: Shenanies onto scott?
On June 17 2015 06:49 batsnacks wrote: I really, really want to vote scott.
On June 17 2015 07:17 batsnacks wrote: Glad we didn't lynch scott, he's probably just a lowly goon.
I admit the last one made me laugh. (=
That's not a case, just an observation for future days.
Some of this actually started to get me thinking, even though it would require some of the ballsiest scumplay I've ever seen to blatantly attempt to shenanigan a lynch off a scummate at EOD. When combined with D1 stuff it makes things very unlikely but then again
TODO list for tomorrow: vote analysis + ruxxar / Sulf association analysis.
Following WOS post, a thought poped in my head. Moosy, I think it was you that accused ruxxar for this day 1: the fact that ruxxar was voting batsnacks, then without explanation found batsnacks' case wonderful and sheeped / voted geript. If what WOS say is true, that may be an association between BS and ruxx.
On June 18 2015 05:56 Rels wrote: Anyway, good night everyone (=
TODO list for tomorrow: vote analysis + ruxxar / Sulf association analysis.
Following WOS post, a thought poped in my head. Moosy, I think it was you that accused ruxxar for this day 1: the fact that ruxxar was voting batsnacks, then without explanation found batsnacks' case wonderful and sheeped / voted geript. If what WOS say is true, that may be an association between BS and ruxx.
Besides that one incident with geript, which I've already explained earlier, I don't see how me and batsnacks have any connection.
Yeah I don't recall any other myself. But I'll check to be sure. Unflipped association are bad anyway, so I suppose my thought was bad.
You were the one to start the train on kickstart, and you reluctantly switched over to sulfur at the end.
Do you still think that kickstart is scum?
That didn't happen. You're making shit up.
He had only light suspicions until Trfel's and my case. Then much later he had stronger suspicions, but didn't vote him until 17 minutes before deadline:
On June 17 2015 06:43 scott31337 wrote: ##Vote Kickstart
OK I want to do a vote analysis but official votecounts are not enough. So I will do something we can all use. Will mark timestamp like that: dXhYY, where X is the number of the day, and YY how many hours has passed since the beginning of the day.
Fuck this is taking me way longer than I thought >< I really hope it's going to be useful or I'll be mad.
First, if we only consider this, the most obvious mafia is ... geript. Fucking seriously. Two votes, one with no reasons, one sheeping another vote. I suppose Oats is right and vote analysis are not good by themselves.
Two other people are suspicious by this vote count IMO. scott Voted me sheeping a super bad case, switching from mafia Sulfu at the same time. Ninja voted geript just before deadline, almost as if he absolutely wanted to be in the group.
Damdred Two votes on town, each time sheeping someone else's case. Made me think of a mafia agreeing with every case posted and congrulating everyone.
One people is less suspicious by this vote count, still IMO. batsnacks Two votes that followed two good cases by him. In particular, he had no reason to do a case on geript and make everyone switch to him if I he was mafia. OK, I know I hard town read Sulfu with this argument, so I'm not gonna hard town batsnacks. But in my mind he's a good sign for him.
And wow, I wasn't here EOD1 and N1 and I didn't realize I really would have been lynched without batsnacks' case. I thought that was my drunk post that made everybody go "ah, he's so genuine". I now understand better the big wagon on me at the start of day 2. (= Still, I'm sure at least one mafia jumped on that easy wagon.
Another person is weird. It's Oatsmaster. He did the same thing for his two votes. He jumped on a new train, so he was second vote each time; and each time, his reasons were ... not. Yeah no reasons actually.
It's almost as he wanted to be the second in the group, no matter who was the lynch, so he could say after "hey, I was at the beginning of the train, didn't hop in opportuniscally".
I'll see if his day 2 votes are the same. Later. This shit takes too long to do.
On June 18 2015 17:56 Rels wrote: Another person is weird. It's Oatsmaster. He did the same thing for his two votes. He jumped on a new train, so he was second vote each time; and each time, his reasons were ... not. Yeah no reasons actually.
It's almost as he wanted to be the second in the group, no matter who was the lynch, so he could say after "hey, I was at the beginning of the train, didn't hop in opportuniscally".
I'll see if his day 2 votes are the same. Later. This shit takes too long to do.
To add to that, he didn't do this with Sulfurus. Even more suspicious.
*sigh* let's do day 2 now. The three wagons of the day were on me, Kickstart and Sulfurus. Reading about this vote list and reasons, I'll try to see: - who jumped too easily on me and Kickstart - who was relunctant to jump on Sulfu - who on the contrary had no reason to jump on Sulfu but did, hinting at a bus I suggest you do the same.
OK first as I said several times, I think at least one mafia jumped on my easy train at the start of day 2. Discarding moosy, the people on my train were: batsnacks scott ruxxar Damdred Kickstart Trfel
So there is a good chance at least 1 mafia is in that list.
Oatsmaster Like day 1, he didn't vote neither me nor Sulfurus. In his reasons to vote Kickstart, he expresses suspicion on Sulfu, but never vote him. Suspicious IMO.
ruxxar ruxx went on my wagon when it was easy. Then he went on moosy's wagon for weird reasons when I started posting stuff. Then he went on Kickstart's easy wagon for no reason. Then he didnt' go for Sulfu's easy wagon. Not town sign obviously but not that suspicious IMO.
Damdred The first to go on Sulfu's wagon (after Kickstart's defense vote). Pretty good sign.
batsnacks Started on my per his case, but quickly voted ruxxar. Super weird, as I was super scummy before day 2.
WOS First of the day to express real doubts on Sulfu. Good sign.
Trfel Explained everything he did. Very logical. Hammered Sulfu with his vote.
scott Super suspicious. I will pretend he's mafia and construct a likely narrative for him for day 2.
He hoped into my easy train sheeping someone at the very start of the day 2. He had 14 posts between 5 hours before the deadline and the deadline In the first of these 14 posts he soft defended Sulfu, when Sulfu only had one vote (Kickstart's):
On June 16 2015 13:06 Kickstart wrote: I said sorry once. Again you are just making stuff up in that regard. Only in your mind was last game an ok lynch and was I playing weird at all, your only qualm was my posts were too long.... But I don't want to argue with you about a prior game or about anything for that matter. For someone who likes to talk about what others do, you sure sit back and do nothing early on and get yourself into the the most ridiculous tunnels :rollseyes:.
Not discussing this nonsense further it is a waste of time.
Then let us discuss Sulfurus - what do you not like about him? He just voted for Oats I see.
Then, even though he posted 8 posts in the last 4 hours, he posted this:
On June 17 2015 06:38 scott31337 wrote: Yeah Im here had to finish the other game - I fought well let me read and catch up and my vote
This post looks like this to me: "Ow I don't have time to think I may do a mistake voting as I only have a few minutes to decides" And mistake he did since he posted this:
On June 17 2015 06:43 scott31337 wrote: Grrr I haven't like KS all game - his wall of text isn't that great but it's something....I like who's on Sulfurs better, but the last three times I've used that suggestion, Its because the mafia were on the other side and enough townies on the ML anyway I'm going with KS.
At the same time, Sulfu also voted Kickstart.
Then scott realized his vote and Sulfu's was not enough to lynch Kickstart, so he salvaged the situation:
On June 17 2015 06:49 scott31337 wrote: If Sulf is mafia then I'll look like shit
Trfel is my believer and WoS is my believer they want Sulf dead Sulf isn't doing shit Let's go Sulf then fuhq it
What does he "if Sulfu if mafia then I'll look like shit". Why care so much. He had the same kind of thinking day 1, when he ninja voted geript for no reason. That reason may be that he wanted to be in the group.
So the strongest thing I take from day 2 analysis is a strong scum lean on scott. These reasons especially: - he was part of the group that had an easy jump on me - he tried to hammer kickstart - he changed his mind just after, as it was clear that Sulfu was going to get lynched
Woaw I leave the thread for 5 hours and a third of the messages are from the host.
Anyway I have a request for everyone reading: I want you to take a look at voting patterns and tell your thoughts about it. I made voting recap for day 1 and day 2. Or you can use Trfel's analysis if you prefer that style.
On June 19 2015 03:42 batsnacks wrote: Sulfur's strategy d1 is getting on my wagon asap and townreading the other people who voted and stayed on my wagon. Sulfur is "rewarding" n00b and ruxxar with town reads because they are pushing an agenda that benefits him. Sulfur does not need to reward his scum mates to get them to push his agenda, they do it for free.
K now I'm about to possibly get controversial. Re-reading sulfur's filter again, oats is town. I will show you why with sulfur's oats case:
On June 16 2015 15:32 Sulfurus wrote: K I just realized that Oats is scummy.
I looked through his filter and minus the fluff it's just him asking questions (interspersed with attempts to discredit towny posts)
Now I'm sure n00b would be quick to remind me that asking questions is actually towny as it provides valuable scum hunting information But even if Oats has gotten anything from his posts he hasn't actually provided any of it to the thread in fact it's likely that his questions are helping mafia more then town.
##Vote: Oatsmaster
Look where sulfur says oats is discrediting n00b and Rels townie posts. Sulfur is defending their posts from the big bad bully oats. Newer mafia players do this a lot as scum; they defend townies from aggressive/abrasive town players and scum read them because they believe that the abrasive townie's attitude will make them easier to mislynch. They believe they are earning town points from saving other townie's from the bully. This also implies that Rels is town.
Don't have any motivation to do a scott case with 6/8 people on him. Just the voting pattern is enough for me for voting him, and I don't need a case to convince people already voting for him.
I'm gonna sleep now so see you tomorrow. Take care everyone (=
Last thought of the day: this push is too easy. So easy. There is 6 people voting scott, and WOS was here and did nothing to interrupt that: so that's 7 people out of 9, and 2 mafia left. Statistically, there is at least one mafia on these 7, who is currently is not doing anything to make the thread move.
And I can apply this theory for the whole day. Almost nothing happened, and scott was the most likely train from the very beginning. I know for a fact ruxx and Oats were here and did nothing, for example.
So to me everybody is happy with the lynch going this way: town 'cause scott is super scummy, AND mafia.
So it seems that the mafia team is happy with scott going down. It can mean: - scott is not defendable - scott is townie
Ok I'm too tired to think but tomorrow I will look for each person reason to join this scott train. If I find someone jumping on my train day 2 with no reason AND jumping on this current train for no reason, I'm sure he's mafia.
OK I still have the feeling that push is too easy, whatever happen. So I'm gonna read scott's filter in this current game, then I'll read the filters listed above.
If I don't find anything that make me sure scott is mafia, I'll be cool to switch if my vote stay on that list:
On June 18 2015 19:18 Rels wrote: So crossing the lists, these people has a good chance being mafia: scott ruxxar Damdred
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
On June 14 2015 06:13 Rels wrote: Yo everybody I'm super drunk so I'll post my thoughts and get back to party.
From what I read I'm sure bs and sulfu are both town. Geript is not making sense and didn't answer my question. I think he's mafia so my vote is on the right place.
Damdred stopped lurking and his posts seems townie to me.
From the last post count I m happy to see that my two scumleads are voting for me and geript seems to be the lynch.
Its my last post until tomorrow so take care everyone
OK I still have the feeling that push is too easy, whatever happen. So I'm gonna read scott's filter in this current game, then I'll read the filters listed above.
If I don't find anything that make me sure scott is mafia, I'll be cool to switch if my vote stay on that list:
I remarked two things reading these filters: 1 - filter size; scott's filter this game is almost the same as his mafia game in newbie VIII. In his town game, his filter day 3 was longer. 2 - scott was lynched last day in his townie game. I have the feeling that his defense of himself was more emotional than in this game.
Voilà! I was looking for reasons scott should be town and didn't find them. The reasons above are not great, but it's a little more suspicions of scott when I already have plenty.
OK I still have the feeling that push is too easy, whatever happen. So I'm gonna read scott's filter in this current game, then I'll read the filters listed above.
If I don't find anything that make me sure scott is mafia, I'll be cool to switch if my vote stay on that list:
On June 18 2015 19:18 Rels wrote: So crossing the lists, these people has a good chance being mafia: scott ruxxar Damdred
hsh I see you linking my filters but not reaching to any conclusions - am I mafia?
Read them and I saw very similar styles, except for size where it's hugely different. Would love someone like Trfel, WOS or batsnacks to read them and tell me their thought though.
Didn't find the revelation that you were town, and that's what I was looking for.
OK I still have the feeling that push is too easy, whatever happen. So I'm gonna read scott's filter in this current game, then I'll read the filters listed above.
If I don't find anything that make me sure scott is mafia, I'll be cool to switch if my vote stay on that list:
On June 18 2015 19:18 Rels wrote: So crossing the lists, these people has a good chance being mafia: scott ruxxar Damdred
hsh I see you linking my filters but not reaching to any conclusions - am I mafia?
Read them and I saw very similar styles, except for size where it's hugely different. Would love someone like Trfel, WOS or batsnacks to read them and tell me their thought though.
Didn't find the revelation that you were town, and that's what I was looking for.
Maybe you can do it and point me how these filters mean you're town and not mafia, 'cause I didn't find it.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
##Vote geript
On June 14 2015 06:13 Rels wrote: Yo everybody I'm super drunk so I'll post my thoughts and get back to party.
From what I read I'm sure bs and sulfu are both town. Geript is not making sense and didn't answer my question. I think he's mafia so my vote is on the right place.
Damdred stopped lurking and his posts seems townie to me.
From the last post count I m happy to see that my two scumleads are voting for me and geript seems to be the lynch.
Its my last post until tomorrow so take care everyone
On June 19 2015 16:08 scott31337 wrote: Every newbie game I had a coach I was mafia I need to play a game with a coach as town - I did okay by myself in Guardians but I still lost the game.
I can't interpret this post any other way than you being mafia Scott. I'm sorry.
OK ruxxar. For now I think you're town. And if scott flips mafia I'll never get back on this, 'cause my main point against you is how you jump on easy train, and I don't think you would do that to your teammate.
On June 13 2015 02:08 scott31337 wrote: Geript has four posts and very little content. I know he's good as mafia - but on the scum side of null for now.
He scumreads geript here, but uses the reason that geript is good at mafia to weaken his argument. As a result, he doesn't push this at all (and it would be hard to push geript, because he is a strong player).
He also scumreads MoosyDoosy and batsnacks, back when MoosyDoosy was a very easy target and batsnacks was scumread by most people.
On June 13 2015 01:44 scott31337 wrote: Good day. I'm at page 16 - So far not liking N00bking for his wordy fluff - and Rels gets a slight townread (even if it's for calling out my replacement). KS and Oats feel are two townies angry at each other.
Let me catch up with the rest and a through read.
It makes no sense whatsoever for town!scott31337 to townread Rels for scumreading the person he replaced for his one post. Assuming that scott31337 is town, he townreads Rels for scumreading someone who scott31337 knows is town and was only able to make one (useless) post. There is no reason whatsoever that Rels should get a townread for this. To me, this feels like scott31337 is attempting to pocket Rels, which makes sense given that Rels would naturally be suspicious of him after the replacement. His explanation here adds that he townread Rels for strongly believing this case, but mafia!Rels has no reason NOT to push his case so strongly because he knows that Fake)Plants is town (thus an easy mislynch) and that he almost certainly won't provide strong resistance.
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: ^ Also Kickstart, I wouldn't read too much into ruXx's initial post where he's rambling about slapping/daydreaming about Mafia. It might have been from an attempt to identify himself as a non-aggressor to the Mafia so that when night time comes around, they don't kill him. If the game went on for longer, people would also suspect ruXx more giving the Mafia an easy kill. This actually happens a ton in real life Mafia but it's clear it's totally different online at this point.
Also, going back to his post where he "misses the interaction" which is right after his rambling, it's pretty clear that ruXx is not paying attention whatsoever. As a newbie he was probably just as excited as I was about remaining passive which is why he didn't notice the err in his post. Just the fact that it seems he has no idea whatsoever about what he's saying during his rambling just shows this too.
I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 12 2015 11:38 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yeah, the more I read of ruXx's initial posts, the more it seems he's thinking in terms of a real life Mafia game as well as tryharding a bit.
Him intercepting a question was him tryharding a basic read and him supporting lying is from a real life Mafia mindset since lying is much more common in real life.
The last two posts that you point out are kind of shady but even then they err on the side of newbie to online Mafia. Overall I wouldn't vote him just yet until we get more evidence.
Wow moosy.
I have to give you 5 stars for this read. It's like you're inside my head or something. I had goosebumps reading this since it was so spot on.
You are absolutely right that my only exposure to mafia has been through watching the TI qualifiers hub, and later watching all stars mafia on youtube.
I really wanted to emulate the dynamic of a live environment, and went in trying to actively counter some of the things i picked up that a mafia would do.
From watching those live mafia games I learned that the number 1 trait of a mafia is to be silent. They would bide their time and look for arguments to bandwagon onto, often avoid getting into heated arguments if possible, and when attacked they would try to deflect onto another person.
I admit I am very excited to go out playing my first mafia game, and overracted by claiming my role before day 1 post(I did not know that this was frowned upon).
Another thing that I learned is that it doesn't matter if you are mafia or not, as long as you contribute to try solving the case, then it's good to keep people around just in case they are town, because then in the largest portion of games they would be a boon to you as a town.
This is Rexxar's best post. The goosebumps part sounds so legitimate and would be extremely creative to fake from the posts he made earlier. Slight town read
Slight townread on ruXxar. Then he doesn't mention ruXxar for a while, until:
On June 13 2015 07:29 scott31337 wrote: Who I'm liking so far -
Wave Trfel n00bKing Damdred Oats
Probably wouldn't lynch today - Rels Kickstart
Could Lynch - Batsnacks Geript MoosyDoosy Sulfurus RuXxar
Including basically everyone who could be lynched today in the "Could Lynch" category. Again, note that he ends up voting for Rels, despite having included him in the "Probably wouldn't lynch today" category, the only reasons being sheeping me and this post:
On June 13 2015 07:37 scott31337 wrote: KS and Rels are playing a lot different then my last game with either of them, which makes me wonder.
Finally, he's always saying he could lynch geript, without actually pushing it or doing anything about it. When the votes finally switched to geript, and scott31337 switched his own vote to geript, he didn't say anything whatsoever.
I need to move on, I'm running out of time, but I'm pretty confident that scott31337 is mafia.
3. Meta: - His filter when he was town in HG was 2 pages longer than on this one. - His filter when he was town in newbie IX was 3 pages on day 1 when he was lynched, more than half the size than this game. - His filter when he was mafia in newbie VIII was 1 page less than this game.
And you discarded it, but 4. Vote analysis: - Day 1 ninja voted geript as the last vote. - Day 2 weird behaviour at EOD.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
##Vote geript
On June 14 2015 06:13 Rels wrote: Yo everybody I'm super drunk so I'll post my thoughts and get back to party.
From what I read I'm sure bs and sulfu are both town. Geript is not making sense and didn't answer my question. I think he's mafia so my vote is on the right place.
Damdred stopped lurking and his posts seems townie to me.
From the last post count I m happy to see that my two scumleads are voting for me and geript seems to be the lynch.
Its my last post until tomorrow so take care everyone
Sulf went from second on your lynch list to "sure town" - Can you inform me how you came to this reasoning? Do you want to lynch Trfel now as well?
@scott: Why did you ask me that question ? Why did you have the feeling I wanted to lynch Trfel as well?
It was an association read question from filter diving - Your name was no where to be found. Does that make sense? How do you feel about Trfel at this time, BTW?
Not really. Because I almost never mention Trfel I would like to lynch him ? Trfel is one of my top town.
On June 19 2015 18:53 Rels wrote: @Scott Did Damdred afk like that in Holy Gardians ? In particular, did I ever afk 36 hours in a row ?
Nawh, Damdred never AFK'ed for extended periods of time in Guardians he was always around within a reasonable time. [/QUOTE] OK that is weird. May switch to Damdred.
On June 19 2015 16:08 scott31337 wrote: Every newbie game I had a coach I was mafia I need to play a game with a coach as town - I did okay by myself in Guardians but I still lost the game.
I can't interpret this post any other way than you being mafia Scott. I'm sorry.
On June 19 2015 16:08 scott31337 wrote: Every newbie game I had a coach I was mafia I need to play a game with a coach as town - I did okay by myself in Guardians but I still lost the game.
I can't interpret this post any other way than you being mafia Scott. I'm sorry.
OK I have to go so I will explain why I don't like this at all.
On June 19 2015 16:08 scott31337 wrote: Every newbie game I had a coach I was mafia I need to play a game with a coach as town - I did okay by myself in Guardians but I still lost the game.
First - that is not true, scott played as newbie and town in newbie IX, so he had had a coach as town.
On June 19 2015 22:33 Rels wrote: Fuck you're right.
He played on newbie IX as a newbie, so he had a coach for sure.
So, why would scott lie about it ?
If he's town, that's because ... *here someone else fill because I have nothing*
If he's mafia, that's because it is an easy way to: - say he's playing badly so anything weird we find in his play should be excused. - try to appeal to our emotional side like this: "oooooo poor fellow, never had a coach as town ...."
Anyway that's a lie, and a lie I find hard to explain from a town perspective. Maybe as he was lynched day 1 as town, he didn't have lots of time to interact with his coach ...
On June 19 2015 16:08 scott31337 wrote: Every newbie game I had a coach I was mafia I need to play a game with a coach as town - I did okay by myself in Guardians but I still lost the game.
I can't interpret this post any other way than you being mafia Scott. I'm sorry.
I replaced into Newbie Mini Mafia LX Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 3 and Half the Sky carried us into that game - I posted a case and the town had no clue who to vote and GG'ed it out - flawless Newbie Student Mafia VIII Mafia Godfather Survived Day 3 - Holyflare replaced into this and he's one of the most respected mafia players here I look up to - no mafia died 3-0 as well. Newbie Student Mafia IX Town Vanilla Lynched Day 1 - I woke up to a wagon on me but had a lot to do lynch day and only had about 30 minutes to post my thoughts - I was town but after my mislynch town got themselves figured out and lynched mafia. I won this game as well. Newbie IX - My internet shit the bed and was partying the night before so I was unable to get to a wifi connection before I was already lynched - was RB - lost Holy Guardians - I was town and we were pretty lost until Day 4 - I was voting on a town and town Damdred saved the say for wanting to change the lynch when if he was mafia it was all over - we lynched Mafia and the game was almost in the bag- just had to convince town VE - it didn't work but was my best town experienced game - lost
On June 19 2015 16:08 scott31337 wrote: Every newbie game I had a coach I was mafia I need to play a game with a coach as town - I did okay by myself in Guardians but I still lost the game.
I can't interpret this post any other way than you being mafia Scott. I'm sorry.
I replaced into Newbie Mini Mafia LX Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 3 and Half the Sky carried us into that game - I posted a case and the town had no clue who to vote and GG'ed it out - flawless Newbie Student Mafia VIII Mafia Godfather Survived Day 3 - Holyflare replaced into this and he's one of the most respected mafia players here I look up to - no mafia died 3-0 as well. Newbie Student Mafia IX Town Vanilla Lynched Day 1 - I woke up to a wagon on me but had a lot to do lynch day and only had about 30 minutes to post my thoughts - I was town but after my mislynch town got themselves figured out and lynched mafia. I won this game as well. Newbie IX - My internet shit the bed and was partying the night before so I was unable to get to a wifi connection before I was already lynched - was RB - lost Holy Guardians - I was town and we were pretty lost until Day 4 - I was voting on a town and town Damdred saved the say for wanting to change the lynch when if he was mafia it was all over - we lynched Mafia and the game was almost in the bag- just had to convince town VE - it didn't work but was my best town experienced game - lost
And in the newbie IX game you are mentioning spending so little time in, your filter for 48 hours is more than half the size than your filter in this game.
On June 19 2015 16:08 scott31337 wrote: Every newbie game I had a coach I was mafia I need to play a game with a coach as town - I did okay by myself in Guardians but I still lost the game.
I can't interpret this post any other way than you being mafia Scott. I'm sorry.
I replaced into Newbie Mini Mafia LX Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 3 and Half the Sky carried us into that game - I posted a case and the town had no clue who to vote and GG'ed it out - flawless Newbie Student Mafia VIII Mafia Godfather Survived Day 3 - Holyflare replaced into this and he's one of the most respected mafia players here I look up to - no mafia died 3-0 as well. Newbie Student Mafia IX Town Vanilla Lynched Day 1 - I woke up to a wagon on me but had a lot to do lynch day and only had about 30 minutes to post my thoughts - I was town but after my mislynch town got themselves figured out and lynched mafia. I won this game as well. Newbie IX - My internet shit the bed and was partying the night before so I was unable to get to a wifi connection before I was already lynched - was RB - lost Holy Guardians - I was town and we were pretty lost until Day 4 - I was voting on a town and town Damdred saved the say for wanting to change the lynch when if he was mafia it was all over - we lynched Mafia and the game was almost in the bag- just had to convince town VE - it didn't work but was my best town experienced game - lost
That's not the question.
Did you have a coach in newbie IX as town ?
I did but I had real life issues and was unable to use it.
OK I really have to go now. Willing to switch to Damdred or ruxxar as I said, but I let you guys discuss the next few hours. Should be back before deadline hopefully.
On June 13 2015 02:08 scott31337 wrote: Geript has four posts and very little content. I know he's good as mafia - but on the scum side of null for now.
He scumreads geript here, but uses the reason that geript is good at mafia to weaken his argument. As a result, he doesn't push this at all (and it would be hard to push geript, because he is a strong player).
He also scumreads MoosyDoosy and batsnacks, back when MoosyDoosy was a very easy target and batsnacks was scumread by most people.
On June 13 2015 01:44 scott31337 wrote: Good day. I'm at page 16 - So far not liking N00bking for his wordy fluff - and Rels gets a slight townread (even if it's for calling out my replacement). KS and Oats feel are two townies angry at each other.
Let me catch up with the rest and a through read.
It makes no sense whatsoever for town!scott31337 to townread Rels for scumreading the person he replaced for his one post. Assuming that scott31337 is town, he townreads Rels for scumreading someone who scott31337 knows is town and was only able to make one (useless) post. There is no reason whatsoever that Rels should get a townread for this. To me, this feels like scott31337 is attempting to pocket Rels, which makes sense given that Rels would naturally be suspicious of him after the replacement. His explanation here adds that he townread Rels for strongly believing this case, but mafia!Rels has no reason NOT to push his case so strongly because he knows that Fake)Plants is town (thus an easy mislynch) and that he almost certainly won't provide strong resistance.
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: ^ Also Kickstart, I wouldn't read too much into ruXx's initial post where he's rambling about slapping/daydreaming about Mafia. It might have been from an attempt to identify himself as a non-aggressor to the Mafia so that when night time comes around, they don't kill him. If the game went on for longer, people would also suspect ruXx more giving the Mafia an easy kill. This actually happens a ton in real life Mafia but it's clear it's totally different online at this point.
Also, going back to his post where he "misses the interaction" which is right after his rambling, it's pretty clear that ruXx is not paying attention whatsoever. As a newbie he was probably just as excited as I was about remaining passive which is why he didn't notice the err in his post. Just the fact that it seems he has no idea whatsoever about what he's saying during his rambling just shows this too.
I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 12 2015 11:38 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yeah, the more I read of ruXx's initial posts, the more it seems he's thinking in terms of a real life Mafia game as well as tryharding a bit.
Him intercepting a question was him tryharding a basic read and him supporting lying is from a real life Mafia mindset since lying is much more common in real life.
The last two posts that you point out are kind of shady but even then they err on the side of newbie to online Mafia. Overall I wouldn't vote him just yet until we get more evidence.
Wow moosy.
I have to give you 5 stars for this read. It's like you're inside my head or something. I had goosebumps reading this since it was so spot on.
You are absolutely right that my only exposure to mafia has been through watching the TI qualifiers hub, and later watching all stars mafia on youtube.
I really wanted to emulate the dynamic of a live environment, and went in trying to actively counter some of the things i picked up that a mafia would do.
From watching those live mafia games I learned that the number 1 trait of a mafia is to be silent. They would bide their time and look for arguments to bandwagon onto, often avoid getting into heated arguments if possible, and when attacked they would try to deflect onto another person.
I admit I am very excited to go out playing my first mafia game, and overracted by claiming my role before day 1 post(I did not know that this was frowned upon).
Another thing that I learned is that it doesn't matter if you are mafia or not, as long as you contribute to try solving the case, then it's good to keep people around just in case they are town, because then in the largest portion of games they would be a boon to you as a town.
This is Rexxar's best post. The goosebumps part sounds so legitimate and would be extremely creative to fake from the posts he made earlier. Slight town read
Slight townread on ruXxar. Then he doesn't mention ruXxar for a while, until:
On June 13 2015 07:29 scott31337 wrote: Who I'm liking so far -
Wave Trfel n00bKing Damdred Oats
Probably wouldn't lynch today - Rels Kickstart
Could Lynch - Batsnacks Geript MoosyDoosy Sulfurus RuXxar
Including basically everyone who could be lynched today in the "Could Lynch" category. Again, note that he ends up voting for Rels, despite having included him in the "Probably wouldn't lynch today" category, the only reasons being sheeping me and this post:
On June 13 2015 07:37 scott31337 wrote: KS and Rels are playing a lot different then my last game with either of them, which makes me wonder.
Finally, he's always saying he could lynch geript, without actually pushing it or doing anything about it. When the votes finally switched to geript, and scott31337 switched his own vote to geript, he didn't say anything whatsoever.
I need to move on, I'm running out of time, but I'm pretty confident that scott31337 is mafia.
3. Meta: - His filter when he was town in HG was 2 pages longer than on this one. - His filter when he was town in newbie IX was 3 pages on day 1 when he was lynched, more than half the size than this game. - His filter when he was mafia in newbie VIII was 1 page less than this game.
And you discarded it, but 4. Vote analysis: - Day 1 ninja voted geript as the last vote. - Day 2 weird behaviour at EOD.
On June 20 2015 21:51 ruXxar wrote: From actually thinking through what I wrote up above, it could make sense that Rels is mafia.
I'll make an evaluation on him to see if I can put together a solid case based on his actions. After I'm done with that I'll be giving you my clear stance on Rels.
I'm doing this as much for my own sake, to get all my thoughts in order. I need to clear out my head on the Rels/sulfur association.
Sure. I'm happy you're doing this 'cause here is my POE right now:
Town: WOS Trfel batsnacks Kickstart ruxxar
Scum: Damdred Oatsmaster
You're my weakest town read, so bring on your case. I want to see if it's forced or not.
On June 19 2015 16:08 scott31337 wrote: Every newbie game I had a coach I was mafia I need to play a game with a coach as town - I did okay by myself in Guardians but I still lost the game.
I can't interpret this post any other way than you being mafia Scott. I'm sorry.
I replaced into Newbie Mini Mafia LX Mafia Vanilla Survived Day 3 and Half the Sky carried us into that game - I posted a case and the town had no clue who to vote and GG'ed it out - flawless Newbie Student Mafia VIII Mafia Godfather Survived Day 3 - Holyflare replaced into this and he's one of the most respected mafia players here I look up to - no mafia died 3-0 as well. Newbie Student Mafia IX Town Vanilla Lynched Day 1 - I woke up to a wagon on me but had a lot to do lynch day and only had about 30 minutes to post my thoughts - I was town but after my mislynch town got themselves figured out and lynched mafia. I won this game as well. Newbie IX - My internet shit the bed and was partying the night before so I was unable to get to a wifi connection before I was already lynched - was RB - lost Holy Guardians - I was town and we were pretty lost until Day 4 - I was voting on a town and town Damdred saved the say for wanting to change the lynch when if he was mafia it was all over - we lynched Mafia and the game was almost in the bag- just had to convince town VE - it didn't work but was my best town experienced game - lost
That's not the question.
Did you have a coach in newbie IX as town ?
I did but I had real life issues and was unable to use it.
On June 21 2015 06:43 ruXxar wrote: Here's my thought on the mafias play.
Either your or wave are going to die. If neither of you die, then one of you has to be mafia.
Does that sound far fetched?
The thought is valid but wifom.
I loved the way you answered these questions BTW. A mafia has to fabricate reads, so changing them is difficult. You explaining how you changed your read on the sulfu / me situation make me think you're really town.
Day 1 he voted Sulfu 3 hours into the game and never did anything else ?? Day 2 he was the first on Sulfu's wagon (WOS had switched before) and never did anything else ? Day 3 he was on the easy train, not the only one. NAI.
OK another thought. Damdred dying might be a good opportunity for us.
For the first time in the game, something that the mafia didn't plan happened. It is very possible that the mafia team pushed subtily Damdred to be mislynched today. If you remember someone saying "damdred might be scum" during day 3 or night 3, please quote.
On June 21 2015 06:55 WaveofShadow wrote: Ruxxar rels trfel
kickstart oats bats damdred Never had time to do reread 'cause weekend stuff, sorry Not sure on the null/scum list tbh but I am confident the 2 scum are there.
Bye guys! It was a pleasure!
... fuck. My hard town read.
Cant believe WOS is mafia though ... Will see if someone else influenced him.
On June 21 2015 07:49 Rels wrote: OK another thought. Damdred dying might be a good opportunity for us.
For the first time in the game, something that the mafia didn't plan happened. It is very possible that the mafia team pushed subtily Damdred to be mislynched today. If you remember someone saying "damdred might be scum" during day 3 or night 3, please quote.
OK on the other hand I just read Kickstart's filter the past two days. Wasn't hard it is so short ... Kickstart hard defended Damdred the past two days, so wasn't pushing for his mislynch. Good point for him.
On June 21 2015 07:49 Rels wrote: OK another thought. Damdred dying might be a good opportunity for us.
For the first time in the game, something that the mafia didn't plan happened. It is very possible that the mafia team pushed subtily Damdred to be mislynched today. If you remember someone saying "damdred might be scum" during day 3 or night 3, please quote.
OK on the other hand I just read Kickstart's filter the past two days. Wasn't hard it is so short ... Kickstart hard defended Damdred the past two days, so wasn't pushing for his mislynch. Good point for him.
Isn't it ironic how batsnacks was the biggest proponent of damdred scum? That's why damdred is dead in the first place LOL.
Yeah.
When batsnacks pushed the easy lynch on geript, mafia and townie alike followed. When Trfel / me / others pushed the easy lynch on scott, mafia and townie alike followed. So I want to know who tried to push the easy lynch on Damdred, if that actually happened.
On June 19 2015 15:30 Trfel wrote: Scott31337, I see your post and I'm pretty convinced you are mafia. Not going to argue with you about this any more.
I'm sorry you feel this way - Who would you like to lynch tomorrow when I flip town?
Not sure. I'm also suspecting Oatsmaster, looking through his filter at the moment. And I still need to take a closer look at ruXxar.
There are a lot of people who seem to be suspicious of Damdred, and I'm waiting for them to really explain why. I don't see many real reasons to suspect Damdred at this point.
On June 19 2015 15:30 Trfel wrote: Scott31337, I see your post and I'm pretty convinced you are mafia. Not going to argue with you about this any more.
I'm sorry you feel this way - Who would you like to lynch tomorrow when I flip town?
Not sure. I'm also suspecting Oatsmaster, looking through his filter at the moment. And I still need to take a closer look at ruXxar.
There are a lot of people who seem to be suspicious of Damdred, and I'm waiting for them to really explain why. I don't see many real reasons to suspect Damdred at this point.
why is damdred town?
I analyzed Damdred's voting in this post. While the formatting isn't ideal (the formatting emphasized the less important parts), I just don't feel like Damdred's interactions with Sulfurus are sensible for mafia.
how should damdred interaction with sulf if hes mafia?
Also, why dont you agree that the voting analysis is pretty damn useless.
How is the voting analysis useful?
This one I didn't include above 'cause I don't understand it:
On June 21 2015 08:12 Kickstart wrote: Don't like the position we are in. Oats deserves to die but if he is town then he fucked all of us by deciding to not play this game. If he is town now is the time for him to do something, otherwise he is still the best lynch.
You posted the same thing for scott. Why do you believe it will be different this time ?
On June 16 2015 14:19 Damdred wrote: Let me reinterate I'm not shitting on you, I want you to stop playing with a chip on your shoulder right now and cooperate towards finding scum to be active.
Like you can say a lot about my early game I know its the weakest part of my game and its compounded here by work+replacing in at an awkward juncture, but if I say X is a problem in this situation regardless of alignment its just how I see it. Its not a tunnel, I generally don't tunnel.
Here's the thing I honestly think that you are probably town. And we need to not bicker, I accept that I'm playing like shit and I can laugh at myself about it, give me some reads Ks.
personally id still rather lynch rux or sul today. I'd rather not lynch moose because of bad reasons. Oats is a possibility he has no real floe this game and can't see his thought movement which is troubling
Wave is probably town, rel feels town. Trfel is probably town, bats is defo town. So for me its a pretty small list of players I could see hang today.
I see few spotlights of townyness in his play, but otherwise he's been a null read from his actions for me.
Only reason for me to suspect him is his lack of activity, and his unwillingness to lead the thread forward.
But by process of elimination the most likely scum is Damdred and oats, and I don't think oats is scum if scott is scum.
On June 21 2015 06:43 ruXxar wrote: Here's my thought on the mafias play.
Either your or wave are going to die. If neither of you die, then one of you has to be mafia.
Does that sound far fetched?
The thought is valid but wifom.
I loved the way you answered these questions BTW. A mafia has to fabricate reads, so changing them is difficult. You explaining how you changed your read on the sulfu / me situation make me think you're really town.
Yo pals, as I said like last weekend, won't be available today, with family + fête de la musique. Will have much more time tomorrow.
Two things I thought when reading the thread: - Trfel's big post of me contains things that are all true, so no distorsion of reality. But Trfel, if you think I'm not very commited to my reads, what do you think of ruxxar ? - Oatsmaster has now attacked everyone to defend himself ... To quote a WOS post without looking for it, he's "throwing mud everywhere to see where it sticks". If deadline was now my vote would be on him.
On June 21 2015 18:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Cause it would be super weird for me to suddenly town read someone I've kinda semi scum read the whole game.
That's not true. Here is your ONLY post mentioning Kickstart day 3.
On June 19 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Wave I forgot I posted that post when you didnt answer.
And cause everyone wants to lynch scott, which I am completely ok with.
Kickstart is just scumreading me to be a dick right now lol.
So you weren't semi scum reading him day 3.
2nd thing Plus you didn't just do one post one attacking him. You really attacked him and WOS hard. Nonsense for your supposed greencheck. Here are your psots attacking him: + Show Spoiler +
Night 3:
On June 21 2015 01:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Why wouldn't I vote for sulph if I'm mafia? To make this argument is the wrong answer btw. Also I changed my Mind about Kickstart as you can see later.
On June 21 2015 07:09 Kickstart wrote: Lol at bats failuire :D. Means he took out Damdred with him correct? -_______- Well that puts the damdred lynch nonsense to rest that some were pushing. I really think we kill oats here but we can't afford any mistakes so will see.
On June 21 2015 06:52 Kickstart wrote: Doubt I'll die with some others still here but just in case, kill oats~
On June 21 2015 01:17 Kickstart wrote: Oats is so scummy here and should never have been allowed to live to this point. He is just starting shit fights and calling every single player in the game scum with 0 reasoning and then peacing out or telling every person who makes any point whatsoever that their point is bad or doesn't make sense while he himself gets hung up over the most useless things. Like this 'scumslip' he keeps going on about. It clearly wasn't a fucking scumslip because the guy flipped town so why the fuck oats is so hung up on it is beyond me, besides it being the new thing he can shit up the thread and argue with someone about without actually contributing in any way. If he turns out to be town he has been fucking useless and should feel bad.
On June 20 2015 07:30 Kickstart wrote: zzzzzzzzzzz Was wanting to switch to oats but overslept and no one was here any fucking ways. Where does this put us. 2 mafia vs how many town still? 2v4? Nightkill we are 2v3.
Yep, have to get the next one right boys.
On June 19 2015 23:05 Kickstart wrote: So scot n oats still scummy to me. Only thing I want to note is if scott flips town I am going to have to have a look at bats and trfel for telling him to not talk to them because they aren't listening. I mean I think scott is scum too and trfel is like shitting town rainbows any time he decides to post but yeah.
On June 19 2015 04:56 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I have no recent experience with oats so I can't speak to that. He just seems to give no fucks about the game or even trying to figure it out. He just comes in and nitpicks at peoples points or makes some insane mafia teams that make no sense. My only experience with him was 3 years ago and he was scum that game so he was much different.
On June 19 2015 04:41 Kickstart wrote: He tends to sit back like this. But he does come in when it counts or when there is pressure and does decent then. That is how I felt he did day2 and that is why I like him for now. I would agree that other than the day2 he has been very under the radar but that is exactly how I felt about him in the 1 other games I played with him (thin it was just 1 ) and that is just how he plays. Scott is a good lynch today. My worry is with Oats is that he could be mafia or town and just being lazy, but if we allow him to live to mylo or lylo we are in a real bad spot having to try to read him, whereas almost everyone else would be easier to read at that point I think. That said we still have time and a scott lynch again looks the best to me (I'm about equal on oats vs scott lynch but seems most people arent as sure on an oats lynch as I am).
On June 19 2015 03:49 Kickstart wrote: Actually tbh I would just go between oats and scott now. Rels and ruxxar have posted a lot and both of them look better now so. Would lynch oats/scott today.
On June 19 2015 03:48 Kickstart wrote: So you saying rels ruxxar and oats arent scummy and you want to lynch scott? Not sure I agree that anything sulfurus does makes them 3 town but I said those are the 4 I would lynch into and I still feel that way. In order it is probably like oats, scott, rels, ruxxar at this point with oats being who I would most want to lynch.
On June 21 2015 08:12 Kickstart wrote: Don't like the position we are in. Oats deserves to die but if he is town then he fucked all of us by deciding to not play this game. If he is town now is the time for him to do something, otherwise he is still the best lynch.
In the past 2 pages of his filter, kickstart has posted like 12 posts telling people to lynch me. That seems like more than usual paranoia. especially since hes wrong.
##vote kickstart Also all his arguments are really bad and basically hinge on him not liking the way I play, rather than any real reasons why Im mafia.
On June 21 2015 09:24 Oatsmaster wrote: So I doubt bats was a hatter snipe. Wave is more scummy than kickstart though.
Man I actually have to go through his filter and make a case. Life sucks.
Also he will be pushing my ass for really bad reasons.
Can I preempt his omgus?
On June 21 2015 11:20 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol kick, why would I switch to you if I'm mafia. Can you explain that? Why don't I just lynch sulf especially since I can make up a real good reason why he's mafia.
The bad thing about this is that I definitely will look like town if I'm mafia. I think wave is mafia because he didn't die. I think you are mafia because the only thing on your mind the past 3 days is lynching me. When there are still 2 mafia alive. Why do you say I'm hedging my vote just cause I call more than one person mafia at a time?
Also how am I the only person to think that Scott and damdred were mafia. Everyone in the game thought they were mafia.
On June 21 2015 12:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Man do I really have to pos. "oh iI think bats is town. ? Isn't obvious when I vote that I think a certain person is townier or scummier??? I voted for kickstart because I thought trfels case was good and I have been burned a lotta times by afk townies, aka damdred.
You know, when someone says someone else is scummy it doesn't mean that he is the scummiest. I thought I made it pretty damn obvious by my voting that it was the person I thought was the scummiest.
On June 21 2015 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm not looking for the best chance to lynch scum. I'm looking for scum. Why don't we nolynch here so you can prove me wrong Kickstarter?
3rd thing It makes no sense that you didn't claim right after night ended. WOS is the most town read guy here and your arguments are shit, no there is no way you believed yuo could convince people to vote him.
On June 21 2015 07:23 Kickstart wrote: What role did sulf flip. OP is not updated with flips so I don't remember if he was a regular goon or a special role. Rly wanted to see if he was godfather cause with a godfather we probably have a cop I would think. (but then we had 2 blue flips already so I dunno). Again, I am shit at setup speculation but I thought sulf was godfather iirc and that should mean we have a cop??? As I think doctor and mad hatter roles aren't considered very powerful in list of possible blue roles. Anyways I'm not a role but I again will say now is the time to come out with info if there is any.
This is Kickstart's post 20 minutes after the start of this current day.
You should have claimed right here if you were a real cop.
On June 21 2015 18:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Dude it wasn't a trap, it was to see if anyone would go on it. And to not slip that I'm cop. Cause it would be super weird for me to suddenly town read someone I've kinda semi scum read the whole game.
Seriously you pushed kick start hard d2 and never mentioned him d3. That is very consistent with you checking him green actually.
So why do you say you didn't want to be very suspicious swapping your read of him ? That is EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID
On June 21 2015 23:33 WaveofShadow wrote: Unfortunately shouting 'I know im town therefore oats must be scum' isn't helpful to everyone else that doesn't know my alignment. I've already shown two ways that you're faking it. Your explanation of your scum reading kickstart is horseshit.
Go ahead and explain away and bring all the horseshit you need to. Hopefully town doesn't buy into it but at least I'm doing all I can.
For like the 3rd damn time, why would I fakeclaim such a shitty check? I havent seen any answers from anyone.
You dont seem worried that being lynched means town lose the game. You dont seem worried at all.
I have to agree with the point oats is making here.
If he was fake claiming cop, why wouldn't he say that he red checked me or rels? It would be such an easy win for the mafia.
Yo, between two drinks, here is a message to Oats, as he probably will be sleeping when I wake up tomorrow:
Oats, I'm not believing your claim right now. But ... it makes a little bit more sense than I thought. You didn't attack batsnacks during D2. You ignored Kickstart during D3.
So. Please show me a previous game of yours where you do something like that. If it exists, show me a game where you are a cop and you did one of the following: - you didn't claim a redcheck, but tried to attack him with arguments - you didn't breadcrumb - you attacked a greencheck to throw off mafia members
Another thing. The timing of his relation with Kickstart doesn't make sense. Here is what happened chronogically:
1 Oats start scumreading Kickstart D2H39. Note that he defended him pretty hard all day before that post.
On June 16 2015 22:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Pretty ok case I guess. Dammit I hate being a wrong but now kickstart actually looks like mafia.
It's weird that sulph wants to lynch me rather than kickstart though.
2 Oats ignored completely Kickstart day 3. Only post about Kickstart all D3:
On June 19 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Wave I forgot I posted that post when you didnt answer.
And cause everyone wants to lynch scott, which I am completely ok with.
Kickstart is just scumreading me to be a dick right now lol.
3 THEN he attacked Kickstart starting N3. Here are the posts: + Show Spoiler +
Night 3:
On June 21 2015 01:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Why wouldn't I vote for sulph if I'm mafia? To make this argument is the wrong answer btw. Also I changed my Mind about Kickstart as you can see later.
On June 21 2015 07:09 Kickstart wrote: Lol at bats failuire :D. Means he took out Damdred with him correct? -_______- Well that puts the damdred lynch nonsense to rest that some were pushing. I really think we kill oats here but we can't afford any mistakes so will see.
On June 21 2015 06:52 Kickstart wrote: Doubt I'll die with some others still here but just in case, kill oats~
On June 21 2015 01:17 Kickstart wrote: Oats is so scummy here and should never have been allowed to live to this point. He is just starting shit fights and calling every single player in the game scum with 0 reasoning and then peacing out or telling every person who makes any point whatsoever that their point is bad or doesn't make sense while he himself gets hung up over the most useless things. Like this 'scumslip' he keeps going on about. It clearly wasn't a fucking scumslip because the guy flipped town so why the fuck oats is so hung up on it is beyond me, besides it being the new thing he can shit up the thread and argue with someone about without actually contributing in any way. If he turns out to be town he has been fucking useless and should feel bad.
On June 20 2015 07:30 Kickstart wrote: zzzzzzzzzzz Was wanting to switch to oats but overslept and no one was here any fucking ways. Where does this put us. 2 mafia vs how many town still? 2v4? Nightkill we are 2v3.
Yep, have to get the next one right boys.
On June 19 2015 23:05 Kickstart wrote: So scot n oats still scummy to me. Only thing I want to note is if scott flips town I am going to have to have a look at bats and trfel for telling him to not talk to them because they aren't listening. I mean I think scott is scum too and trfel is like shitting town rainbows any time he decides to post but yeah.
On June 19 2015 04:56 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I have no recent experience with oats so I can't speak to that. He just seems to give no fucks about the game or even trying to figure it out. He just comes in and nitpicks at peoples points or makes some insane mafia teams that make no sense. My only experience with him was 3 years ago and he was scum that game so he was much different.
On June 19 2015 04:41 Kickstart wrote: He tends to sit back like this. But he does come in when it counts or when there is pressure and does decent then. That is how I felt he did day2 and that is why I like him for now. I would agree that other than the day2 he has been very under the radar but that is exactly how I felt about him in the 1 other games I played with him (thin it was just 1 ) and that is just how he plays. Scott is a good lynch today. My worry is with Oats is that he could be mafia or town and just being lazy, but if we allow him to live to mylo or lylo we are in a real bad spot having to try to read him, whereas almost everyone else would be easier to read at that point I think. That said we still have time and a scott lynch again looks the best to me (I'm about equal on oats vs scott lynch but seems most people arent as sure on an oats lynch as I am).
On June 19 2015 03:49 Kickstart wrote: Actually tbh I would just go between oats and scott now. Rels and ruxxar have posted a lot and both of them look better now so. Would lynch oats/scott today.
On June 19 2015 03:48 Kickstart wrote: So you saying rels ruxxar and oats arent scummy and you want to lynch scott? Not sure I agree that anything sulfurus does makes them 3 town but I said those are the 4 I would lynch into and I still feel that way. In order it is probably like oats, scott, rels, ruxxar at this point with oats being who I would most want to lynch.
On June 21 2015 08:12 Kickstart wrote: Don't like the position we are in. Oats deserves to die but if he is town then he fucked all of us by deciding to not play this game. If he is town now is the time for him to do something, otherwise he is still the best lynch.
In the past 2 pages of his filter, kickstart has posted like 12 posts telling people to lynch me. That seems like more than usual paranoia. especially since hes wrong.
##vote kickstart Also all his arguments are really bad and basically hinge on him not liking the way I play, rather than any real reasons why Im mafia.
On June 21 2015 09:24 Oatsmaster wrote: So I doubt bats was a hatter snipe. Wave is more scummy than kickstart though.
Man I actually have to go through his filter and make a case. Life sucks.
Also he will be pushing my ass for really bad reasons.
Can I preempt his omgus?
On June 21 2015 11:20 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol kick, why would I switch to you if I'm mafia. Can you explain that? Why don't I just lynch sulf especially since I can make up a real good reason why he's mafia.
The bad thing about this is that I definitely will look like town if I'm mafia. I think wave is mafia because he didn't die. I think you are mafia because the only thing on your mind the past 3 days is lynching me. When there are still 2 mafia alive. Why do you say I'm hedging my vote just cause I call more than one person mafia at a time?
Also how am I the only person to think that Scott and damdred were mafia. Everyone in the game thought they were mafia.
On June 21 2015 12:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Man do I really have to pos. "oh iI think bats is town. ? Isn't obvious when I vote that I think a certain person is townier or scummier??? I voted for kickstart because I thought trfels case was good and I have been burned a lotta times by afk townies, aka damdred.
You know, when someone says someone else is scummy it doesn't mean that he is the scummiest. I thought I made it pretty damn obvious by my voting that it was the person I thought was the scummiest.
On June 21 2015 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm not looking for the best chance to lynch scum. I'm looking for scum. Why don't we nolynch here so you can prove me wrong Kickstarter?
4 Finally, he said he attacked Kickstart, whom he presumably greenchecked. First he explained that was to get reaction from other people:
On June 21 2015 17:03 Rels wrote: Yo pals, as I said like last weekend, won't be available today, with family + fête de la musique. Will have much more time tomorrow.
Two things I thought when reading the thread: - Trfel's big post of me contains things that are all true, so no distorsion of reality. But Trfel, if you think I'm not very commited to my reads, what do you think of ruxxar ? - Oatsmaster has now attacked everyone to defend himself ... To quote a WOS post without looking for it, he's "throwing mud everywhere to see where it sticks". If deadline was now my vote would be on him.
I havent attacked you. Or kickstart. Why are you saying that im throwing mud everywhere when Im only throwing it on like 3 people?
On June 21 2015 07:09 Kickstart wrote: Lol at bats failuire :D. Means he took out Damdred with him correct? -_______- Well that puts the damdred lynch nonsense to rest that some were pushing. I really think we kill oats here but we can't afford any mistakes so will see.
On June 21 2015 06:52 Kickstart wrote: Doubt I'll die with some others still here but just in case, kill oats~
On June 21 2015 01:17 Kickstart wrote: Oats is so scummy here and should never have been allowed to live to this point. He is just starting shit fights and calling every single player in the game scum with 0 reasoning and then peacing out or telling every person who makes any point whatsoever that their point is bad or doesn't make sense while he himself gets hung up over the most useless things. Like this 'scumslip' he keeps going on about. It clearly wasn't a fucking scumslip because the guy flipped town so why the fuck oats is so hung up on it is beyond me, besides it being the new thing he can shit up the thread and argue with someone about without actually contributing in any way. If he turns out to be town he has been fucking useless and should feel bad.
On June 20 2015 07:30 Kickstart wrote: zzzzzzzzzzz Was wanting to switch to oats but overslept and no one was here any fucking ways. Where does this put us. 2 mafia vs how many town still? 2v4? Nightkill we are 2v3.
Yep, have to get the next one right boys.
On June 19 2015 23:05 Kickstart wrote: So scot n oats still scummy to me. Only thing I want to note is if scott flips town I am going to have to have a look at bats and trfel for telling him to not talk to them because they aren't listening. I mean I think scott is scum too and trfel is like shitting town rainbows any time he decides to post but yeah.
On June 19 2015 04:56 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I have no recent experience with oats so I can't speak to that. He just seems to give no fucks about the game or even trying to figure it out. He just comes in and nitpicks at peoples points or makes some insane mafia teams that make no sense. My only experience with him was 3 years ago and he was scum that game so he was much different.
On June 19 2015 04:41 Kickstart wrote: He tends to sit back like this. But he does come in when it counts or when there is pressure and does decent then. That is how I felt he did day2 and that is why I like him for now. I would agree that other than the day2 he has been very under the radar but that is exactly how I felt about him in the 1 other games I played with him (thin it was just 1 ) and that is just how he plays. Scott is a good lynch today. My worry is with Oats is that he could be mafia or town and just being lazy, but if we allow him to live to mylo or lylo we are in a real bad spot having to try to read him, whereas almost everyone else would be easier to read at that point I think. That said we still have time and a scott lynch again looks the best to me (I'm about equal on oats vs scott lynch but seems most people arent as sure on an oats lynch as I am).
On June 19 2015 03:49 Kickstart wrote: Actually tbh I would just go between oats and scott now. Rels and ruxxar have posted a lot and both of them look better now so. Would lynch oats/scott today.
On June 19 2015 03:48 Kickstart wrote: So you saying rels ruxxar and oats arent scummy and you want to lynch scott? Not sure I agree that anything sulfurus does makes them 3 town but I said those are the 4 I would lynch into and I still feel that way. In order it is probably like oats, scott, rels, ruxxar at this point with oats being who I would most want to lynch.
On June 21 2015 08:12 Kickstart wrote: Don't like the position we are in. Oats deserves to die but if he is town then he fucked all of us by deciding to not play this game. If he is town now is the time for him to do something, otherwise he is still the best lynch.
In the past 2 pages of his filter, kickstart has posted like 12 posts telling people to lynch me. That seems like more than usual paranoia. especially since hes wrong.
##vote kickstart Also all his arguments are really bad and basically hinge on him not liking the way I play, rather than any real reasons why Im mafia.
nice strawman bro.
Do you even know what a strawman is? You just said you didn't attack Kickstart, I LITERALLY SHOWED HOW YOU ATTACKED KICKSTART. TODAY.
And you apparently voted for someone you greenchecked?
I just...I just can't believe how terrible this is.
I'm done being provoked into these nonsensical arguments.
And, the "attack" on kickstart was for reactions from other people. I retracted like 30 minutes later. Its totally a strawman.
5 One hour later, to the same question "why did you attack you greencheck", he says it was not really to get reactions to other people, but so mafia don't find out he was a cop:
On June 21 2015 18:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Dude it wasn't a trap, it was to see if anyone would go on it. And to not slip that I'm cop. Cause it would be super weird for me to suddenly town read someone I've kinda semi scum read the whole game.
So we have two lies in here:
First lie Oats said on D4H10 that he attacked Kickstart to get reactions from other people.
On June 21 2015 17:47 Oatsmaster wrote: And, the "attack" on kickstart was for reactions from other people.
Oats said on D4H11 that he didn't really attack Kickstart to get reactions from other people, but to be less suspicious.
On June 21 2015 18:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Dude it wasn't a trap, it was to see if anyone would go on it. And to not slip that I'm cop. Cause it would be super weird for me to suddenly town read someone I've kinda semi scum read the whole game.
The fact that Oats don't answer to the same question with the same answers pretty much means these explanations are fabricated.
Second lie Oats said he attacked Kickstart so it wouldn't be weird for him to suddenly town read someone he's kinda scumread before. Except that is exactly what he did D3: even though he voted for him D2, he completely ignored him D3, and the only post mentioning him can be read as a townread:
On June 19 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Kickstart is just scumreading me to be a dick right now lol.
As for his partner, for the moment I think Kickstart for a few reasons: - Oats' weird relation with Kickstart: hard defended him most of D2, ignored him D3, attacked, then greenchecked him D4. - The previous cases may be still valid. Will have to check. - His last few posts tried to get people to believe Oats is a cop and no lynch. It's consistent with him being Oats' partner. In particular this post:
On June 22 2015 13:06 Kickstart wrote: If Oats fakeclaimed I will just never play with him again sigh.
What ??? If Oats fakeclaims it means he's mafia so it's a good play ... This post feels so bad to me. This comment seems to do two mafia things to me: - create even more of a thread sentiment that Oats is mafia - if he's wrong and Oats is mafia, Kickstart has an excuse: "I didn't really believe him, look I said I wasn't going to play with him again if he fakeclaims ..."
In short, this post in addition to the few one just before seems to me like a good way to not explain his stances and look alright whatever the outcome is.
@Kickstart can you explain this sentence ?
On June 22 2015 13:06 Kickstart wrote: If Oats fakeclaimed I will just never play with him again sigh.
On June 22 2015 17:42 Kickstart wrote: Rels you are hung up on some pretty dumb things. I said that because at that point in time I chose to believe his claim. I'm really not going to get into a discussion about me being upset at oats and being pissed about his claim because it is neither important nor fruitful. Now I'm pissed at you for caring about something so meaningless when if we get this lynch wrong we fucking lose.
The only thing to decide here is if we believe Oats claim. If his claim is true, wave and rels are the scumteam imo. If oats is lying he is obviously scum and wave is town and then his scumbuddy is in trfel or ruxxar I think, probably ruxxar; though I guess Rels could be his teammate as well, havent given that world much though atm. Biggest issue here is I know I'm town and at this point I will put the idea of Trfel being town above almost everything else (in regards to who else is town or who is mafia) simply based on the current situation. Now I am inclined to believe Oats but it seems Trfel doubts it. Rels also seems to doubt Oats claim but now he is hung up on some real retarded shit leading me to think he is scum as well.
Like I just don't understand Rels questioning of me here. The single most important event that has happened in this game is the Oats claim and it is the ONLY thing that needs to be figured out to decide if this game is won/lost for town and he is asking me retarded questions??? It just baffles me as the only thing everyone should be discussing and putting their energy into is figuring out if Oats is indeed the cop. Rels this is so weird/scummy of you I need you to explain.
That's two times now I've asked you a question, and you didn't answer and instead got angry.
Anyway, we're apparently lynching Oats today. As you say, let's focus on that today. I won't forget it; we'll talk next day.
On June 22 2015 17:42 Kickstart wrote: Like I just don't understand Rels questioning of me here. The single most important event that has happened in this game is the Oats claim and it is the ONLY thing that needs to be figured out to decide if this game is won/lost for town and he is asking me retarded questions??? It just baffles me as the only thing everyone should be discussing and putting their energy into is figuring out if Oats is indeed the cop. Rels this is so weird/scummy of you I need you to explain.
So we should only decide if either Oats or WOS is lying right ? Exactly what you did here 5 hours ago right ?
On June 22 2015 13:06 Kickstart wrote: The main thing being his hard defense of Rels which I really didn't see as justifiable. But if he is scum and Rels is his buddy then it makes perfect sense.
Plus, my questioning is perfectly justified. You seem soooo sorry to believe Oats' claim it is super suspicious.
On June 22 2015 13:06 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I thought about it and as much as it pains me I think the most logical thing has to be to trust Oats claim. [...] If Oats fakeclaimed I will just never play with him again sigh.
You're usually pretty clear and cut, so why the excuse and the justification here ?
On June 22 2015 18:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Rels why aren't don't you seem to have any problems at all with lynching me and losing the game?
'cause I think you're mafia. You can explain your actions all you want, I believe your explanations are false and the better explanation is that you're mafia.
Plus, there is something you can't explain, even if in the eventuality you're town: setup analysis. All behavioural analysis aside, it's super weird that you would be cop in this setup.
And why do you try to convince me when you just said I slip and I am the second mafia ... You really attacked everyone today. Throwing mud, etc.
On June 22 2015 18:45 Oatsmaster wrote: Wave has like 5 posts since I claimed. I have like 20 but he's town and I'm mafia? Come on guys, please think properly about this.
I am not playing you.
Think about it, if I'm mafia, why don't I just post seals and rely on my teammate winning? You guys have no idea who the other mafia is, if I'm mafia and I post seals.
Yeah you really did nothing all game, and only posted when you were under suspicion. Good point.
On June 22 2015 18:45 Oatsmaster wrote: Think about it, if I'm mafia, why don't I just post seals and rely on my teammate winning? You guys have no idea who the other mafia is, if I'm mafia and I post seals.
On June 22 2015 18:50 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm mafia and I fakeclaim cop, now my partner has to take a side and correctly read town sentiment for a pretty damn low chance at winning the game right here. And if we get it wrong, we lose.
It just makes 0 sense. Sure the gain is that mafia win, but it's a really awkward fake claim to make.
You're right, your partner must have tried to influence town sentiment ...
On June 22 2015 09:13 Kickstart wrote: I figured there would be a cop claim. I was paranoid before I went to sleep earlier that since there was no cop claim from anyone yet that mafia could use it for an easy win. In general I would instantly believe a quick claim that seemed to make sense but Oats really did poorly in waiting so long in the position he was in. Now I have to look at his claimed checks and how he played after them and see if it makes sense.
From what I can remember an Oats cop may make sense. He was pushing on bats so hard day 1 so a check there makes sense, and the fact that after that he doesn't push scum bats ahain from what I can remember. I personally don't think I check on me makes sense after the sulf lynch but I suppose in a position where I am tunneling you really fucking hard you may be inclined to do so. Wave or trfel check dunno.
Thing like this really requires actually reading through the thread and not just his filter; fml. I knew there would be a claim today and I knew it was going to be hard to believe because either side was going to be able to do it, maybe I should have fakeclaimed first D:
On June 22 2015 09:14 Kickstart wrote: Well a nolynch from a cop actually makes sense. It would save him from getting lynched and he probably wouldnt be killed since everyone wants him dead anyways and it gives him another night to check someone else. Surely you could figure that out Ruxxar ^^.
On June 22 2015 09:16 Kickstart wrote: Actually, a no lynch right now might be an easy way to tell if his claim is true. If it is true, mafia really have to kill him. I mean they could try to next level us and not kill him but that would be really risky as he could hit the last scum with his check or confirm somebody.
Want to hear everyone elses thoughts on a no lynch to give oats cop (if he is) another check.
On June 22 2015 09:20 Kickstart wrote: Actually a mafia roleblocker is possible which would just fuck everything. They roleblock him and kill me or something and we have no more info than before and no way to confirm oats. Arghhh I dunno. There must be a way to solve this around oats cop claim D:
Gonna go eat and think about it.
On June 22 2015 13:06 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I thought about it and as much as it pains me I think the most logical thing has to be to trust Oats claim. I think given his stated checks the way he has played around them is reasonable and this explains some of the recent problems I had with Waves postings. Some things that really threw me off were some of Waves reads recently but I had him as such a town read that I didn't give them the proper thought. The main thing being his hard defense of Rels which I really didn't see as justifiable. But if he is scum and Rels is his buddy then it makes perfect sense. I also had trouble with his Damdred read but obviously some townies got that wrong as well. I suggest people read his filter, especially recently and see what they think and if they come to the same conclusion as I do.
If Oats fakeclaimed I will just never play with him again sigh.
On June 22 2015 13:06 Kickstart wrote: I think given his stated checks the way he has played around them is reasonable and this explains some of the recent problems I had with Waves postings. Some things that really threw me off were some of Waves reads recently but I had him as such a town read that I didn't give them the proper thought. The main thing being his hard defense of Rels which I really didn't see as justifiable. But if he is scum and Rels is his buddy then it makes perfect sense. I also had trouble with his Damdred read but obviously some townies got that wrong as well.
@Kickstart: what is your "recent problems" you had with Wave's posting ? Is it only his hard defense of me ? Or is there something else ? Please expand.
On June 22 2015 13:06 Kickstart wrote: I think given his stated checks the way he has played around them is reasonable and this explains some of the recent problems I had with Waves postings. Some things that really threw me off were some of Waves reads recently but I had him as such a town read that I didn't give them the proper thought. The main thing being his hard defense of Rels which I really didn't see as justifiable. But if he is scum and Rels is his buddy then it makes perfect sense. I also had trouble with his Damdred read but obviously some townies got that wrong as well.
@Kickstart: what is your "recent problems" you had with Wave's posting ? Is it only his hard defense of me ? Or is there something else ? Please expand.
On June 22 2015 19:29 Kickstart wrote: @Rels I explained my fucking problems with him in that very post. His HARD defense of you and to a lesser extend his Damdred read. Both of which were are completely illogical.
OK so that was really all your explanations. Seems super light to me to completely reverse your read of WOS.
On June 22 2015 17:42 Kickstart wrote: It just baffles me as the only thing everyone should be discussing and putting their energy into is figuring out if Oats is indeed the cop.
On June 22 2015 19:22 Kickstart wrote: I'm like so sure Rels is mafia I'm tempted to drop the Oats copclaim and lynch him.
On June 22 2015 19:29 Kickstart wrote: And both seem to be oblivious to the fact that if oats is in fact town and he is telling the truth then we just lost already, but in light of that fact they would rather get me riled up than try and figure out the oats claim.
Can't speak for ruxxar, but that's not true for me. I started the day by analyzing Oats.
Now that I'm sure he's mafia, I can talk about something else, as my read of him won't change.
On June 22 2015 17:42 Kickstart wrote: It just baffles me as the only thing everyone should be discussing and putting their energy into is figuring out if Oats is indeed the cop.
On June 22 2015 19:22 Kickstart wrote: I'm like so sure Rels is mafia I'm tempted to drop the Oats copclaim and lynch him.
On June 22 2015 19:29 Kickstart wrote: And both seem to be oblivious to the fact that if oats is in fact town and he is telling the truth then we just lost already, but in light of that fact they would rather get me riled up than try and figure out the oats claim.
On June 22 2015 19:35 Kickstart wrote: AGain you are focusing on the completely wrong things Rels; I just don't get it. The wave read is completely secondary to the Oats claim.
THE ENTIRE GAME IS DECIDED BY WHETHER OR NOT WE BELEIVE OATS CLAIM. WAVE BEING TOWN OR SCUM RELIES ON IF OATS IS TELLING THE TRUTH OR NOT. ME THINKING OATS COULD BE TELLING THE TRUTH AND HAVING ISSUES WITH WAVES POSTINGS KIND OF VALIDATES HIS CLAIM.
It really isn't that hard to understand. And again you are being ridiculous with questioning me when the entire game is decided by how we handle oats claim right now. You do realize town has to get this lynch right and hit scum or we automatically lose right? You seem to be just ignoring that fact and focusing on shit that doesn't matter.
You're right.
But as I said, my mind is closed about Oats. I analyzed his lies and agrees with Trfel's analysis. So your "I should be focused on Oats" is not true anymore.
On June 22 2015 19:35 Kickstart wrote: AGain you are focusing on the completely wrong things Rels; I just don't get it. The wave read is completely secondary to the Oats claim.
THE ENTIRE GAME IS DECIDED BY WHETHER OR NOT WE BELEIVE OATS CLAIM. WAVE BEING TOWN OR SCUM RELIES ON IF OATS IS TELLING THE TRUTH OR NOT. ME THINKING OATS COULD BE TELLING THE TRUTH AND HAVING ISSUES WITH WAVES POSTINGS KIND OF VALIDATES HIS CLAIM.
It really isn't that hard to understand. And again you are being ridiculous with questioning me when the entire game is decided by how we handle oats claim right now. You do realize town has to get this lynch right and hit scum or we automatically lose right? You seem to be just ignoring that fact and focusing on shit that doesn't matter.
Don't know why you are trying so hard to make me understand when you are convinced I'm mafia. Do you not really think I'm mafia ? How much percent do you believe it ? 50% ? 100% ?
On June 22 2015 19:42 Kickstart wrote: How do you know we have all that time to discuss is unless you are teamed with Oats and just bussed him. Convenient that you are the very last vote on him aside from Trfel.
Good night scum.
Funny you say that, 'cause before Trfel came you seemed like you wanted to change your mind. Only after his analysis and my post about lies did your keep your vote straight.
Maybe the reason I wans't here was that I was sleeping, and I asked a question to Oats before I went to sleep ?
Anyway,
On June 22 2015 19:42 Kickstart wrote: Good night scum.
On June 22 2015 19:47 Kickstart wrote: Bussing your teammate as late as possible when you don't have a choice anymore and then picking a fight by creating the most retarded scumteam ever is not how you go for the win.
Another funny thing to say, as I posted this one hour after Oats' claim:
On June 19 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: Wave I forgot I posted that post when you didnt answer.
And cause everyone wants to lynch scott, which I am completely ok with.
Kickstart is just scumreading me to be a dick right now lol.
So you weren't semi scum reading him day 3.
2nd thing Plus you didn't just do one post one attacking him. You really attacked him and WOS hard. Nonsense for your supposed greencheck. Here are your psots attacking him: + Show Spoiler +
Night 3:
On June 21 2015 01:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Why wouldn't I vote for sulph if I'm mafia? To make this argument is the wrong answer btw. Also I changed my Mind about Kickstart as you can see later.
On June 21 2015 07:09 Kickstart wrote: Lol at bats failuire :D. Means he took out Damdred with him correct? -_______- Well that puts the damdred lynch nonsense to rest that some were pushing. I really think we kill oats here but we can't afford any mistakes so will see.
On June 21 2015 06:52 Kickstart wrote: Doubt I'll die with some others still here but just in case, kill oats~
On June 21 2015 01:17 Kickstart wrote: Oats is so scummy here and should never have been allowed to live to this point. He is just starting shit fights and calling every single player in the game scum with 0 reasoning and then peacing out or telling every person who makes any point whatsoever that their point is bad or doesn't make sense while he himself gets hung up over the most useless things. Like this 'scumslip' he keeps going on about. It clearly wasn't a fucking scumslip because the guy flipped town so why the fuck oats is so hung up on it is beyond me, besides it being the new thing he can shit up the thread and argue with someone about without actually contributing in any way. If he turns out to be town he has been fucking useless and should feel bad.
On June 20 2015 07:30 Kickstart wrote: zzzzzzzzzzz Was wanting to switch to oats but overslept and no one was here any fucking ways. Where does this put us. 2 mafia vs how many town still? 2v4? Nightkill we are 2v3.
Yep, have to get the next one right boys.
On June 19 2015 23:05 Kickstart wrote: So scot n oats still scummy to me. Only thing I want to note is if scott flips town I am going to have to have a look at bats and trfel for telling him to not talk to them because they aren't listening. I mean I think scott is scum too and trfel is like shitting town rainbows any time he decides to post but yeah.
On June 19 2015 04:56 Kickstart wrote: Yeah I have no recent experience with oats so I can't speak to that. He just seems to give no fucks about the game or even trying to figure it out. He just comes in and nitpicks at peoples points or makes some insane mafia teams that make no sense. My only experience with him was 3 years ago and he was scum that game so he was much different.
On June 19 2015 04:41 Kickstart wrote: He tends to sit back like this. But he does come in when it counts or when there is pressure and does decent then. That is how I felt he did day2 and that is why I like him for now. I would agree that other than the day2 he has been very under the radar but that is exactly how I felt about him in the 1 other games I played with him (thin it was just 1 ) and that is just how he plays. Scott is a good lynch today. My worry is with Oats is that he could be mafia or town and just being lazy, but if we allow him to live to mylo or lylo we are in a real bad spot having to try to read him, whereas almost everyone else would be easier to read at that point I think. That said we still have time and a scott lynch again looks the best to me (I'm about equal on oats vs scott lynch but seems most people arent as sure on an oats lynch as I am).
On June 19 2015 03:49 Kickstart wrote: Actually tbh I would just go between oats and scott now. Rels and ruxxar have posted a lot and both of them look better now so. Would lynch oats/scott today.
On June 19 2015 03:48 Kickstart wrote: So you saying rels ruxxar and oats arent scummy and you want to lynch scott? Not sure I agree that anything sulfurus does makes them 3 town but I said those are the 4 I would lynch into and I still feel that way. In order it is probably like oats, scott, rels, ruxxar at this point with oats being who I would most want to lynch.
On June 21 2015 08:12 Kickstart wrote: Don't like the position we are in. Oats deserves to die but if he is town then he fucked all of us by deciding to not play this game. If he is town now is the time for him to do something, otherwise he is still the best lynch.
In the past 2 pages of his filter, kickstart has posted like 12 posts telling people to lynch me. That seems like more than usual paranoia. especially since hes wrong.
##vote kickstart Also all his arguments are really bad and basically hinge on him not liking the way I play, rather than any real reasons why Im mafia.
On June 21 2015 09:24 Oatsmaster wrote: So I doubt bats was a hatter snipe. Wave is more scummy than kickstart though.
Man I actually have to go through his filter and make a case. Life sucks.
Also he will be pushing my ass for really bad reasons.
Can I preempt his omgus?
On June 21 2015 11:20 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol kick, why would I switch to you if I'm mafia. Can you explain that? Why don't I just lynch sulf especially since I can make up a real good reason why he's mafia.
The bad thing about this is that I definitely will look like town if I'm mafia. I think wave is mafia because he didn't die. I think you are mafia because the only thing on your mind the past 3 days is lynching me. When there are still 2 mafia alive. Why do you say I'm hedging my vote just cause I call more than one person mafia at a time?
Also how am I the only person to think that Scott and damdred were mafia. Everyone in the game thought they were mafia.
On June 21 2015 12:14 Oatsmaster wrote: Man do I really have to pos. "oh iI think bats is town. ? Isn't obvious when I vote that I think a certain person is townier or scummier??? I voted for kickstart because I thought trfels case was good and I have been burned a lotta times by afk townies, aka damdred.
You know, when someone says someone else is scummy it doesn't mean that he is the scummiest. I thought I made it pretty damn obvious by my voting that it was the person I thought was the scummiest.
On June 21 2015 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm not looking for the best chance to lynch scum. I'm looking for scum. Why don't we nolynch here so you can prove me wrong Kickstarter?
3rd thing It makes no sense that you didn't claim right after night ended. WOS is the most town read guy here and your arguments are shit, no there is no way you believed yuo could convince people to vote him.
On June 22 2015 19:47 Kickstart wrote: And what in the fuck have I tried to convince you of.
On June 22 2015 19:49 Kickstart wrote: Rels if you really think I'm scum with sulf+oats after how I interacted with them this game I don't know what to tell you other than you are wrong and that that is ridiculous.
On June 22 2015 19:54 Kickstart wrote: Me saying that that scum team is impossible is pretty much directed at everyone.
But my name is the first word so that is false. It's directed at me.
On June 22 2015 19:49 Kickstart wrote: Rels if you really think I'm scum with sulf+oats after how I interacted with them this game I don't know what to tell you other than you are wrong and that that is ridiculous.
On June 22 2015 19:56 Kickstart wrote: For someone who is nitpicking everything I say you clearly haven't been following my train of thought. Yes, if oats is cop then I believe that the scum team is automatically wave and yourself. I already pointed that out earlier. So your "oh now you beleive" bullshit isnt going to work like im flipping shit around and making it up cause I said this already earlier.
Yes I have the feeling your changing your reads too easily.
So. NOW, do you believe Oats is cop or mafia ? Do you believe WOS is VT or mafia ?
You know what, go to sleep. With all your contradictions that you called nitpicking, I'm now convinced you're mafia. So stop trying to talk to me, you're not lynched today anyway. Try to convince other people tomorrow.
On June 22 2015 19:47 Kickstart wrote: And what in the fuck have I tried to convince you of.
On June 22 2015 19:49 Kickstart wrote: Rels if you really think I'm scum with sulf+oats after how I interacted with them this game I don't know what to tell you other than you are wrong and that that is ridiculous.
On June 22 2015 20:02 Kickstart wrote: How many times do I have to explain to you how it works.
Be one with your words and stop trying. My opinion may change tomorrow, but for now you're mafia with Oats in my mind.
Yo. Sorry if you're town Oats but my mind is sealed on your case. This post was enough for me actually, the rest was just additionnal things:
On June 22 2015 15:27 Trfel wrote: Wow.
Normally cop claims make the game easier, you just lynch the red check and if it's wrong, lynch the claimed cop. But at MYLO or LYLO, that doesn't work.
Before the cop claim, I was scumreading Oatsmaster fairly strongly, and I was pretty convinced that WaveofShadow was town.
We know for a fact that town had a Doctor and a Mad Hatter. Doctor is a very strong power role, and Mad Hatter seems to be of about medium strength (about the same as a vigilante). We don't really know what roles mafia has.
However, most (13 player normal) mafia games are two moderately strong town power roles versus one strong mafia role and one weak mafia role. One example of this is the setup normally used in minis, accepted as a very standard setup.
The newbie setup is as follows:
This game uses a variable open setup. When the game begins, one of the following setups will be chosen:
A) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon B) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon C) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon D) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
Cop is a strong role, Doctor is a strong role, Vigilante is a moderately strong role, and Veteran is a bit weaker. The setup is at most two strong roles versus one and a half scum roles (Godfather is weaker).
Here are a list of the roles in the 13 player normal games with the last post in the past three months (bumps excluded, also note that all setups are 10 town versus 3 mafia):
Holy Guardians Chapter 1: 1 random blue versus 1 Godfather and 1 Weak Roleblocker (can't roleblock same person twice in a row)
I believe it's pretty clear. Not counting the unaware miller as a power role, every 13 player normal game in the past three months had a maximum of two town power roles.
In contrast, two of the listed games (I Still Cant Believe It's Not Themed Mafia and Game of Thrones Mini Mafia) had a mafia role with no purpose. Framer in the first game, Godfather in the second.
It feels like having a Cop in addition to a Doctor and Mad Hatter is very unlikely.
But you know what. For the sake of it I'll check if what he's saying in this post is true. If it is then I won't move my vote. If he lied then I'll vote WOS + Trfel with you.
Read the list of game Trfel quoted, and look the newbie games.
On June 22 2015 15:27 Trfel wrote: Wow.
Normally cop claims make the game easier, you just lynch the red check and if it's wrong, lynch the claimed cop. But at MYLO or LYLO, that doesn't work.
Before the cop claim, I was scumreading Oatsmaster fairly strongly, and I was pretty convinced that WaveofShadow was town.
We know for a fact that town had a Doctor and a Mad Hatter. Doctor is a very strong power role, and Mad Hatter seems to be of about medium strength (about the same as a vigilante). We don't really know what roles mafia has.
However, most (13 player normal) mafia games are two moderately strong town power roles versus one strong mafia role and one weak mafia role. One example of this is the setup normally used in minis, accepted as a very standard setup.
The newbie setup is as follows:
This game uses a variable open setup. When the game begins, one of the following setups will be chosen:
A) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon B) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon C) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon D) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
Cop is a strong role, Doctor is a strong role, Vigilante is a moderately strong role, and Veteran is a bit weaker. The setup is at most two strong roles versus one and a half scum roles (Godfather is weaker).
Here are a list of the roles in the 13 player normal games with the last post in the past three months (bumps excluded, also note that all setups are 10 town versus 3 mafia):
Holy Guardians Chapter 1: 1 random blue versus 1 Godfather and 1 Weak Roleblocker (can't roleblock same person twice in a row)
I believe it's pretty clear. Not counting the unaware miller as a power role, every 13 player normal game in the past three months had a maximum of two town power roles.
In contrast, two of the listed games (I Still Cant Believe It's Not Themed Mafia and Game of Thrones Mini Mafia) had a mafia role with no purpose. Framer in the first game, Godfather in the second.
It feels like having a Cop in addition to a Doctor and Mad Hatter is very unlikely.
We have newbie IX, VIII, VII ... where is X ? Here it is. By now if you read the "fuck" above I suppose you guessed it. Three power roles.
So Trfel: - Left out ONE game of newbie these past three month - The game he left out was ofc the game where there was three power roles - Then went on to claim he went through ALL mini normal games of this past 3 month, and ALL had a maximum two power roles
I also have to leave work so will be afk for one hour more or less. But right now, with Trfel fucking lying, the only mafia team that makes sense in my mind is WOS / Trfel.
I can see Trfel easily as mafia. But WOS is like my super hard town read. I'll have to read all his filter again tonight.
On June 23 2015 02:11 ruXxar wrote: Rels, I don't understand your reaction. If trfel left out that game on purpose to frame oat, then obviously trfel is mafia.
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote: A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?
Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.
If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.
Fuck. WOS filter is so perfect. If he is scum I want someone to walk though it with me post game and show me where are the scum leans.
OK I give up. I have the biggest gut feel that WOS + Trfel is a thing. But rereading WOS' filter, it's so townie. And rereading Oatsmaster, I forgot he fucking attacked his "greencheck" after ignoring him all D3.
The facts are clear. Just can't shake that weird feeling, like when scott's lynch was so easy.
The game had town Roleblocker, Cop, and Mason pair versus mafia Roleblocker and Godfather.
So, this is four town power roles. However, a mason pair isn't very strong, the only real use is to claim (and even this can be unreliable). Overall, I'd say both masons are about the strength of one weaker normal blue role.
Furthermore, town Roleblockers are really weird. At the start of the game they are extremely weak, being as likely to hit town power roles as mafia carrying KP. Looking at the setup, the town has roleblocker as a possible role option, but no watcher/tracker. Therefore, in this setup mafia will be using their least suspected player to deliver KP, making the roleblocker extremely weak until there are few people left, when it's extremely strong.
Despite this game having four power roles, they're generally weaker. This game is balanced, despite mafia having the same, standard roleblocker/godfather setup as in all of the other, standard, two power role games.
Mad Hatter feels like a moderately strong role. Compare it to vigilante. When the Mad Hatter gets lynched, it's like a vigilante who gets to fire in the day. Otherwise, it's like a vigilante who gets to hold their bullet until the end of the game, but doesn't have to worry about being killed early. The disadvantage of the mad hatter is that their action is far less immediate than the vigilante's, and the vigilante can sometimes provide a confirmed town (which the mad hatter can rarely do).
Doctor is an extremely strong power role throughout the game. Can help confirm people, can help keep top townies alive, can block mafia KP, can force mafia to choose sub-optimal night kills. No downside to targeting town power roles (actually, an upside), and no downside to targeting mafia.
Cop is fairly strong, but I've heard that Doctor is a bit stronger.
It's hard to see town having the blue power of Cop/Doctor/Mad Hatter.
Still, if Oatsmaster is the cop, then he's the cop. The setup analysis is something to use to help make a decision, but it's not a stand-alone argument. It's important, but much less important than standard forms of analysis. If the only reason you think that Oatsmaster is scum is because of the power role balance, then you need to rethink that read.
Look, I kinda agree with your analysis.
But I don't care for excuses. You did forget one game which convienently had 3 power roles. You can explain it all you want after, the fact you did is real and won't disappear.
Anyway unless ruxxar or Kickstart can find some WOS scumslips, I'll stay like that.
On June 23 2015 02:32 Rels wrote: OK WOS didn't answer my question immediately. Whatever his excuse is, negative point it is.
This really annoys me for the record. Like if you want to lynch me and think Oats is actually the cop, fine, but to give out arbitrary 'negative points' AFTER you're already voting me because I'm not in front of my computer right when you want me to be is horseshit.
Again as I've mentioned before, by the PoE I've done today so far I'd guess last scum to be Ruxxar but that's not complete. My best course of action today in order to ensure this game continues is to make sure as many people as possible are on Oats to minimize the ability for last second shenanigans or switching, so I'll concern myself with that when he flips red.
I find that super weird. You know for a FACT that Oats is mafia. You've known for more then 24 hours. But you just did nothing really, when you could be hunting scum. You are the only one that can do it with certitude.
You seem too ... static when even if Oats is scum, we still have another MYLO tomorrow.
The game had town Roleblocker, Cop, and Mason pair versus mafia Roleblocker and Godfather.
So, this is four town power roles. However, a mason pair isn't very strong, the only real use is to claim (and even this can be unreliable). Overall, I'd say both masons are about the strength of one weaker normal blue role.
Furthermore, town Roleblockers are really weird. At the start of the game they are extremely weak, being as likely to hit town power roles as mafia carrying KP. Looking at the setup, the town has roleblocker as a possible role option, but no watcher/tracker. Therefore, in this setup mafia will be using their least suspected player to deliver KP, making the roleblocker extremely weak until there are few people left, when it's extremely strong.
Despite this game having four power roles, they're generally weaker. This game is balanced, despite mafia having the same, standard roleblocker/godfather setup as in all of the other, standard, two power role games.
Mad Hatter feels like a moderately strong role. Compare it to vigilante. When the Mad Hatter gets lynched, it's like a vigilante who gets to fire in the day. Otherwise, it's like a vigilante who gets to hold their bullet until the end of the game, but doesn't have to worry about being killed early. The disadvantage of the mad hatter is that their action is far less immediate than the vigilante's, and the vigilante can sometimes provide a confirmed town (which the mad hatter can rarely do).
Doctor is an extremely strong power role throughout the game. Can help confirm people, can help keep top townies alive, can block mafia KP, can force mafia to choose sub-optimal night kills. No downside to targeting town power roles (actually, an upside), and no downside to targeting mafia.
Cop is fairly strong, but I've heard that Doctor is a bit stronger.
It's hard to see town having the blue power of Cop/Doctor/Mad Hatter.
Still, if Oatsmaster is the cop, then he's the cop. The setup analysis is something to use to help make a decision, but it's not a stand-alone argument. It's important, but much less important than standard forms of analysis. If the only reason you think that Oatsmaster is scum is because of the power role balance, then you need to rethink that read.
Look, I kinda agree with your analysis.
But I don't care for excuses. You did forget one game which convienently had 3 power roles. You can explain it all you want after, the fact you did is real and won't disappear.
Anyway unless ruxxar or Kickstart can find some WOS scumslips, I'll stay like that.
And I'm pretty sure it's been explained to you already (and shown by the geript flip) that isolated scumslips are just not likely to come from scum as is. If you're to call me scum it should be blaring at you from the heavens. There should be something overarching about my play that feels wrong, or forced, or with a specific agenda in mind, or whatever. But I'm willing to bet you're not getting that, and I'm pretty sure I know why that is.
You're actually so wrong. It's exactly the inverse. I HAVE the fucking feeling you're weird, but can't find any hints to that.
No you were my 100% town read until a few hours ago.
When I found that Trfel's missing game I had the feeling I was missing something. Like he did a case on everyone but not a "super scummy" Sulfurus. You and Trfel had opposite opinions all game too. That's almost look like that's on purpose. On me, Damdred, Sulfurus, scott ... you were two of the most town read players, but never killed and never on the same page. And lastly, I find weird that you had NO thoughts regarding the last scum, given that if you are really town, you must have thought about the game during 24 hours knowing Oats is mafia.
On June 23 2015 03:16 Rels wrote: No you were my 100% town read until a few hours ago.
When I found that Trfel's missing game I had the feeling I was missing something. Like he did a case on everyone but not a "super scummy" Sulfurus. You and Trfel had opposite opinions all game too. That's almost look like that's on purpose. On me, Damdred, Sulfurus, scott ... you were two of the most town read players, but never killed and never on the same page. And lastly, I find weird that you had NO thoughts regarding the last scum, given that if you are really town, you must have thought about the game during 24 hours knowing Oats is mafia.
Voilà, here is my feeling.
That's not true, I was 100% on the same page about scott by the end of that day, and as I recall we also had similar thoughts regarding Moosy and maybe kickstart as well? I'm nto sure what having differing opinions from someone is supposed to say about me being scum. And I don't have NO thoughts regarding last scum. I've been attempting to analyze while I've been here in between bouts of defending myself and responding to pressure, I just currently feel that ensuring I don't get lynched is the mroe important factor here since, you know, me getting lynched LOSES town the game.
OK OK if you'e mafia you're too strong with words for me.
It's not all too. The cases on Oats are too strong to be false I feel. Like the fact he attacked his greenchecked just before claiming ...
I want to thank my coach ritoki for the many many hours he helped me try to make sense of everything. Thanks coach will be rooting for you every time now!
Now apparently there was a podcast on fucking how wos can be mafia. I hope it's recorded cause I wanna hear that
LOL ritoki pointed to things I posted on my coach QT D3. I feel so dumb not following it ...
Wow. I reread your tips and you adviced me to see who voted Sulfu day 2 but not day 1. This fucking list is fucking short: Damdred, who was early voting him.
And fucking Trfel. Fucking "so logical" Trfel. Fucking "I made a case on anyone scummy but Sulfu" Trfel. Fucking "I switch to Sulfu when it looks like he's gonna be the lynch" Trfel. Fucking "I didn't do anything day 3 except when scott answered to my case" Trfel.
Fucking fuck I can't believe it.
OK that's actually super easy. If Trfel is mafia, scott is town. So we mislynched him, and we have two chances to find Trfel partner. He's gonna keep me alive 'cause I'm sucking his dick each time I talk about him, and he thinks I'll vote with him no matter what at 3-men LYLO. So. If I'm ever with him at 3-men LYLO, I'll fucking lynch him.
Now. If Trfel is mafia, I have nooo idea who is his partner.
He made cases on ruxxar, batsnacks, Kickstart, scott. He expressed doubts over Damdred votes. He expressed suspicions over Oats. And hop, that's everyone except WOS. But I'm sure WOS is town.
Actually. He expressed doubts over Damdred votes, but in his latest post he's soft defending him.
On June 21 2015 13:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Scum between Oats/Trfel/Ruxxar ezpz. 66% chance boyysssss
I want to hear wave answer both of these questions:
#1: Explain why Trfel could be mafia. #2: Explain why I could be mafia.
I'm going to answer this question pretty simply here.
Look at what Rels and Kickstart have been doing. Do either of those players look like scum to you fighting off a townie? That is absolutely a town on town fight right there. I've seen a fucking thousand of them.
Now look at the people who don't give a shit that it's happening as it goes on.
Trfel/you/Oats. Although I suppose Trfel went to bed before it started? so meh. I highly doubt Trfel sits down and makes an huge entire fucking case for Oats being scum/me being town as scum because that makes no goddamn sense to do when all he has to do is vote me. You're the one who is still asking questions and looking like you're trying to find a reason to switch one way or the other. Of the two of you? I think you're more likely scum here. That being said I've seen some dumb shit in my time---I could be wrong on Trfel and he could be pulling some long-ass play to ensure that he still looks good and can switch/ride the tide of a voteswap at the end of the day easy. Actually come to think of it the same could be said for almost anyone if they assume that this is where the votes are most likely to be at the end of the day---if Oats absolutely looks like he is going down any scummer is going to be afraid to be the vote of dissent which is going to make our job harder going forward.
The thing is, in most cases if I'm about to die I give reads on absolutely everyone I possible can so you guys have something to go on once I'm dead, but in this case that shit doesn't matter because everything ends once I die.
I'm going to do everything I can today to make sure Oats is the lynch and we have the time to sit back and figure out who the final scum is.
The only post that made me doubt is this one. Like WOS thinks KS and me are town, and respond no problem to the guy he's SURE 100% is mafia. That's when I started to have the feeling WOS + Trfel was real.
But the rest of the posts is just super townie. And Oats motherfucking attacked his "greencheck". So I backed off.
So where are the scumtells ? I'm starting the podcast thing.
On June 23 2015 17:41 ruXxar wrote: Wave said that the his biggest scum tell is too much information. Being so absolutely ecru an that someone is town.
Like how he in day 4 so easily could call eels and kick town. He's never that certain as town.
Another thing to look for is people that are too perfect. A mafia has a filter to everything the day, so their statements on General will look a lot more polished. Town on the other hand, doesn't really care what they look like so much, so you will find more irregularities in their posting, a more carefree nature.
Fuck no way I would have caught that even with more time. But I see now how someone else could have caught him. Thanks.
On June 23 2015 17:44 ruXxar wrote: Another thing that we missed was the no lynch. We should've absolutely no lynched. It always the best option in a Mylo situation. You reduce the amount if town, so that a bigger percentage of the group is mafia. This means that when you lunch next day, you have a bigger chance of lynching mafia.
On June 23 2015 22:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes you are right Wave.
The problem however becomes when the game plays out like it usually does if there is going to be a no-lynch in MYLO. Like what you and Trfel did in this game. Both of you posted some analysis on the last day but neither of you reached into any hard conclusions (tbf neither did the townies). The final conclsuion for ALL the players were "Oats is mafia, who cares about the other mafia at this point". Regardless of if you would correctly lynch Oats (or any other player in any other situation) or no-lynch here, you really gain nothing, just because you lynched the obvious mafia and noone ever cared about the OTHER mafia (which in this case - in this game, should be the MAIN point of discussion on D4).
Like if everyone is dead set on Oats being mafia here why talk about him? Just ignore him and try to find the other mafia, otherwise you are just wasting the day. When i read the final day i got the impression RuXx, kickstart and Rels were actually trying to figure out the game as a whole. Trfel posted analysis but didn't really look like he was interested in ACTUALLY solving the game rather than just looking good. Wave and Oats were obviously just calling each other mafia and finding reasons why the other one is mafia - which is reasonable.
My interpretation is in the end mafia just shot down town's attempts to actually talk about anything relevant and kept the game onto "let's lynch Oats and figure the game out later". And they did it well.
Yeah exactly. We as town should have pushed hard on WOS, who was content on lyncing Oats, towreading KS Trfel and me, and discussing very calmly with ruxxar. I was fooled the whole game by WOS so no regret over the past days; but I know we, as town, could have played a lot better that last day.
On June 23 2015 02:32 Rels wrote: OK WOS didn't answer my question immediately. Whatever his excuse is, negative point it is.
This really annoys me for the record. Like if you want to lynch me and think Oats is actually the cop, fine, but to give out arbitrary 'negative points' AFTER you're already voting me because I'm not in front of my computer right when you want me to be is horseshit.
Again as I've mentioned before, by the PoE I've done today so far I'd guess last scum to be Ruxxar but that's not complete. My best course of action today in order to ensure this game continues is to make sure as many people as possible are on Oats to minimize the ability for last second shenanigans or switching, so I'll concern myself with that when he flips red.
I find that super weird. You know for a FACT that Oats is mafia. You've known for more then 24 hours. But you just did nothing really, when you could be hunting scum. You are the only one that can do it with certitude.
You seem too ... static when even if Oats is scum, we still have another MYLO tomorrow.
I'm like super angry at myself for that last day. Not the rest of the game as my reads were super shitty. But that last day we could have won! But oh well, I learned sooo much too this game. Next one is gonna be better (=
EPT
and geript seems to be the lynch.
) and that is just how he plays. Scott is a good lynch today. My worry is with Oats is that he could be mafia or town and just being lazy, but if we allow him to live to mylo or lylo we are in a real bad spot having to try to read him, whereas almost everyone else would be easier to read at that point I think. That said we still have time and a scott lynch again looks the best to me (I'm about equal on oats vs scott lynch but seems most people arent as sure on an oats lynch as I am).
