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I am doing this better than progamers do.

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
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1 2 Next All
jtkirk
Profile Joined January 2017
33 Posts
May 20 2025 11:40 GMT
#1
This is a topic, that I wanted to start a long time ago. Here we go.

Obviously, most of us stand no chance when facing a Brood War progamer. Yet, sometimes, I see them do things that could be done in a more better/efficient way. And these things are easy to execute, so easy, that even I am able to do so.
Why don't they care more?

Here are my two examples.

1) Protoss pushing into terran with buildings floating around. Dragoons stay behind for a while attacking the building, while zealots quickly die in the front. When I play, I always use the move command and have dragoons rejoin zealots, targetting terran units instead of buildings. It's automatic for me.
But I've seen Stork too many times throwing his army to a single floating barrack. Even in Best games this can be seen sometimes.

2) Chasing first overlord with first corsair. Many players start attacking the overlord when corsair comes into range and do not move closer. As overlord runs away, corsair stops attacking once in a while to move back to the range again. With scourge being an imminent danger, I wonder, why they simply do not move the corsair as close as possible and kill it few seconds faster. I always do it automatically.

Please share your thoughts. Are these little things really so insignificant?
Did you spot similar inefficiencies in programer games?
tankgirl
Profile Blog Joined May 2016
376 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-20 13:16:01
May 20 2025 13:14 GMT
#2
On may 20 2025 20:40 jtkirk wrote:
Did you spot similar inefficiencies in programer games?


Yes! OK so I always see progamers using the mouse to move the screen over the main geyser to build refinery/extractor/assimilator. Sometimes it takes 2-3 mouse flicks to get the building centered properly especially if they over/under-shoot the screen with that initial screen movement.

Instead I use an Fkey (F2-F3-F4, whichever you use for main/nat) because in its default (unchanged) location, it is always slightly "above" the town hall. So, this allows for instant placement of the building on the gas, with no mouse movement required!
Larva appears to have gone for a 3 hatch spire into lurker into hive before muta, into defiler guardian...off 2 base...
TL+ Member
iFU.spx
Profile Joined April 2011
Russian Federation368 Posts
May 20 2025 16:02 GMT
#3
Dragoons stay behind for a while attacking the building, while zealots quickly die in the front.

When I play, I always use the move command and have dragoons rejoin zealots

Congratulations! Now your dragoons rejoined with zealots and blew up on mines together <3
radley
Profile Joined August 2008
Poland582 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-20 16:21:24
May 20 2025 16:20 GMT
#4
It should be 'Congratulations! You have picked the only viable race for b rank, have fun and harvest some terran tears.`
TL+ Member
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland24879 Posts
May 20 2025 22:01 GMT
#5
For harassment, why not shift attack spam on a worker line? Even at the very highest level you’ll see Zealots or vultures or whatever get in, kill a few and get aggroed off the second an army unit shows up
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
QRCode
Profile Joined December 2024
United States36 Posts
May 21 2025 03:43 GMT
#6
On May 21 2025 01:02 iFU.spx wrote:
Show nested quote +
Dragoons stay behind for a while attacking the building, while zealots quickly die in the front.

Show nested quote +
When I play, I always use the move command and have dragoons rejoin zealots

Congratulations! Now your dragoons rejoined with zealots and blew up on mines together <3


I think he meant when there are no mines and you can bring your goons in. It is fine and true in that situation. And I do see pros goons wasting their time like this, but goons are hard to control and they've gotten much better with this in current play.
WGT-Baal
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
France3351 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-21 12:26:49
May 21 2025 12:24 GMT
#7
Not shift clicking shuttles away after dropping on tanks in pvt, or moving the shuttle a bit later. Very common having 3-4 shuttles micro-ed for the drop, then they loiter over there until a Goliath comes over 2mins later.

Though i understand this is the start of battle so there are a lot of things to do but maybe a hotkey for the shuttle and press it after the battle fully starts?

For things i do as well as pros, I am an expert at storming my own obs in pvz, if i do say so myself. On par with the pros
Horang2 fan
QRCode
Profile Joined December 2024
United States36 Posts
May 22 2025 00:20 GMT
#8
On May 21 2025 21:24 WGT-Baal wrote:
Not shift clicking shuttles away after dropping on tanks in pvt, or moving the shuttle a bit later. Very common having 3-4 shuttles micro-ed for the drop, then they loiter over there until a Goliath comes over 2mins later.

Though i understand this is the start of battle so there are a lot of things to do but maybe a hotkey for the shuttle and press it after the battle fully starts?

For things i do as well as pros, I am an expert at storming my own obs in pvz, if i do say so myself. On par with the pros


Shift clicking with corsairs after targeting overlords. Corsairs attack cooldown is so fast they can almost immediately move after the last shot and this gives them some extra speed for sneaking in last hits and dodging attacks. Makes multi with them a little easier as well.
Kraekkling
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
404 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-22 22:35:08
May 22 2025 22:06 GMT
#9
Sunken placement zvt - when built close to the hatch sunkens provide coverage behind the mineral line and for most of the back side of the natural expansion. On some modern maps like Dominator all of the area in the back is covered.

Imo this is much better vs drops + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

compared to this + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


But also general building placement in zvt - a common layout you'll see lategame Zerg end up with in their main is something like this + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
, which is very disadvantageous for defense with lings and lurks vs MM drops due to chokes between the buildings.

These spots + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
are at least somewhat protected by the sunks and there is no potential for terran units to kite backwards.
(*^^)(^*)
Kraekkling
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
404 Posts
May 23 2025 03:30 GMT
#10
consuming lings with a defiler by moving the defiler towards the clump of lings, then consuming the front ones and then either waiting for the animation to finish to get to the lings further behind or by moving the defiler again

it's quicker to bring the lings to the defiler instead. move command a bit behind the defiler so the lings surround the defiler and are in range for consume
(*^^)(^*)
kogeT
Profile Joined September 2013
Poland2036 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-23 12:33:35
May 23 2025 12:32 GMT
#11
On May 20 2025 20:40 jtkirk wrote:
This is a topic, that I wanted to start a long time ago. Here we go.

Obviously, most of us stand no chance when facing a Brood War progamer. Yet, sometimes, I see them do things that could be done in a more better/efficient way. And these things are easy to execute, so easy, that even I am able to do so.
Why don't they care more?

Here are my two examples.

1) Protoss pushing into terran with buildings floating around. Dragoons stay behind for a while attacking the building, while zealots quickly die in the front. When I play, I always use the move command and have dragoons rejoin zealots, targetting terran units instead of buildings. It's automatic for me.
But I've seen Stork too many times throwing his army to a single floating barrack. Even in Best games this can be seen sometimes.

2) Chasing first overlord with first corsair. Many players start attacking the overlord when corsair comes into range and do not move closer. As overlord runs away, corsair stops attacking once in a while to move back to the range again. With scourge being an imminent danger, I wonder, why they simply do not move the corsair as close as possible and kill it few seconds faster. I always do it automatically.

Please share your thoughts. Are these little things really so insignificant?
Did you spot similar inefficiencies in programer games?


You are not doing in better, you are doing it different. SC is a game of priorities, while you micro your goons or corsair, pros make a macro round or so. And they found it more important to prioritise. It is also a matter of individual styles, some people prefer to micro one screen, some go macro, others jump to another place to harras at the same time.
https://www.twitch.tv/kogetbw
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States904 Posts
May 25 2025 17:53 GMT
#12
On May 23 2025 07:06 Kraekkling wrote:
Sunken placement zvt - when built close to the hatch sunkens provide coverage behind the mineral line and for most of the back side of the natural expansion. On some modern maps like Dominator all of the area in the back is covered.

Imo this is much better vs drops + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

compared to this + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


But also general building placement in zvt - a common layout you'll see lategame Zerg end up with in their main is something like this + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
, which is very disadvantageous for defense with lings and lurks vs MM drops due to chokes between the buildings.

These spots + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
are at least somewhat protected by the sunks and there is no potential for terran units to kite backwards.

This is actually very smart, I do place my sunkens there, but didn't think of putting my tech there

Here's mine: use the move command to get perfect surrounds on zealots when they wonder out of the base and want to run back in

You run past the zealot and move click on it

XenOsky
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Chile2257 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-05-25 18:15:16
May 25 2025 18:14 GMT
#13
theres one thing i do better than protoss progamers

+ Show Spoiler +
dodge pvz
StarCraft & Audax Italiano.
Peeano
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Netherlands4978 Posts
May 26 2025 22:10 GMT
#14
On May 21 2025 21:24 WGT-Baal wrote:
Not shift clicking shuttles away after dropping on tanks in pvt, or moving the shuttle a bit later. Very common having 3-4 shuttles micro-ed for the drop, then they loiter over there until a Goliath comes over 2mins later.

Though i understand this is the start of battle so there are a lot of things to do but maybe a hotkey for the shuttle and press it after the battle fully starts?

For things i do as well as pros, I am an expert at storming my own obs in pvz, if i do say so myself. On par with the pros

I'm convinced SKT1 players never learned this in the team house, and that to this day Bisu still doesn't know about this lmao
FBH #1!
Nirli
Profile Joined February 2023
Bulgaria365 Posts
May 27 2025 14:13 GMT
#15
Hands down one of the threads of 2025.
Not to stay off topic, one thing I do better than progamers is unpausing the games when my oponent is AFK.
Kraekkling
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
404 Posts
May 27 2025 17:32 GMT
#16
I guess this is old knowledge but there's literally no reason to not always do this

this is mostly relevant for whenever T or P get a scouting worker into the base of Zerg or try to keep the scout alive for some time - it is always better to mine a mineral chunk with your scouting worker. The return cargo command is like an additional ability which allows to instantly head home while ignoring unit collision; and it doesn't require to switch screens.

its really not that uncommon to see a Probe get stuck somewhere for a moment while being micro'ed and instantly die to lings, which could have been an easy escape if return cargo was available
(*^^)(^*)
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States904 Posts
May 27 2025 19:22 GMT
#17
On May 28 2025 02:32 Kraekkling wrote:
I guess this is old knowledge but there's literally no reason to not always do this

this is mostly relevant for whenever T or P get a scouting worker into the base of Zerg or try to keep the scout alive for some time - it is always better to mine a mineral chunk with your scouting worker. The return cargo command is like an additional ability which allows to instantly head home while ignoring unit collision; and it doesn't require to switch screens.

its really not that uncommon to see a Probe get stuck somewhere for a moment while being micro'ed and instantly die to lings, which could have been an easy escape if return cargo was available

Except you lose the ability to prevent drones from mining a patch
Kraekkling
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
404 Posts
May 28 2025 01:23 GMT
#18
On May 28 2025 04:22 iopq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 28 2025 02:32 Kraekkling wrote:
I guess this is old knowledge but there's literally no reason to not always do this

this is mostly relevant for whenever T or P get a scouting worker into the base of Zerg or try to keep the scout alive for some time - it is always better to mine a mineral chunk with your scouting worker. The return cargo command is like an additional ability which allows to instantly head home while ignoring unit collision; and it doesn't require to switch screens.

its really not that uncommon to see a Probe get stuck somewhere for a moment while being micro'ed and instantly die to lings, which could have been an easy escape if return cargo was available

Except you lose the ability to prevent drones from mining a patch

true!! which means there's an optimal timing to mine
(*^^)(^*)
FyRe_DragOn
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
Canada2056 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-03 00:48:16
June 03 2025 00:34 GMT
#19
On May 23 2025 07:06 Kraekkling wrote:
Sunken placement zvt - when built close to the hatch sunkens provide coverage behind the mineral line and for most of the back side of the natural expansion. On some modern maps like Dominator all of the area in the back is covered.

Imo this is much better vs drops + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

compared to this + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


But also general building placement in zvt - a common layout you'll see lategame Zerg end up with in their main is something like this + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
, which is very disadvantageous for defense with lings and lurks vs MM drops due to chokes between the buildings.

These spots + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]
are at least somewhat protected by the sunks and there is no potential for terran units to kite backwards.



Could be wrong since i dont main zvt but i think pros are placing sunkens that way because drops are not a priority early game, defending vs the first group of mnm is. And if you place the sunkens touching the hatchery like that then you give them an opportunity to potentially just stim and runby into your main in some situations. Also its more difficult to place additional sunkens behind if youre doing stuff like muta+ling counter base trade there, and also theres less space to have a nydus behind the sunkens.

The main tech buildings are placed tightly together around the main hatchery so you can more easily defend with fewer dark swarms, having chokes between the buildings isnt the biggest issue there.

If all pros are using similar building placements theres probably a good reason for it, as goes for any of their other habits. I dont think they are infallible but they will be doing stuff that works best for them, after optimizing over many thousands of games.

edit: forgot also that vs tank pushes, having the sunkens placed forward is important as well because you dont want terran to be able to siege down your main hatchery or hit spawning defilers withou first killing all the sunkens in the way, so its essential the sunkens be placed at least somewhat forward. Thats probably more important that the other stuff i mentioned even
aka DragOn[NaS]
Timebon3s
Profile Joined May 2018
Norway684 Posts
June 03 2025 19:11 GMT
#20
- If I see a flock of scourge, I try to attack them instead of running away with all corsairs and end up losing them to scourge connects anyway. I see progamers do this a lot.

- Focus down buildings.

- Not retreat your army and lose the entire army. Even if its a losing battle, at least I get -something- out of it.
I often see protoss pro-gamers just run away and end up losing it without doing any dmg, which I never understood why.
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