EPTNewbie Student Mafia XI - Page 57
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 15 2015 12:55 Sulfurus wrote: Thank you for the answer but I don't think you understand why I made that post. First off there's no point in me defending myself since I am not at risk to be lynched and Second I'm actually trying to reevaluate on trfel by understanding why others are townreading him instead of being one of those people who just mindlessly tunnel on one person. Anyway your logic is actually really good if Rels is mafia but what if rels is town? Is everything we have on trfel just wrong or is he still town? Are you going to answer my question or not? | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On June 14 2015 21:52 ruXxar wrote: This makes no sense to me given this post here.So first off. I'm very disappointed that the night actually started 1 hour earlier than expected. It didn't give me enough time to analyze batsnacks accusation even though it made sense when he posted it. I can't tell you his reasons for doing so, but it felt like such an improvised and irregular post that I don't know what to make of it. All game I had him as scum, and suddenly he makes this one move which totally breaks with his character so far. I can't help but feel like i've been fooled. I want to say that I should've stuck to my gut feeling and not be swayed so easily. If I disregard that one action of his, then batsnacks is still my top scumread. On June 14 2015 06:10 ruXxar wrote: Please explain. I'm more interested in this than the case on MoosyDoosy that follows.Wow bats... I'm speechless. I had you and geript as my top two scum. I refuse to believe that you would bus your own scum teammate this hard. You really redeemed yourself here in my eyes. I'll have to change my alignment of you to town and change my vote to geript. ##Unvote batsnacks ##Vote geript MoosyDoosy, I know you've explained this a few times already, but I'm not sure I understand. On June 14 2015 07:57 MoosyDoosy wrote: You made this post without knowing that geript flipped his alignment. My impression is that you are less convinced that geript is scum, and your worry for him actually being town caused you to be less convinced that Sulfurus and Rels were scum? Is this correct?Lol, I don't think anything is certain after this. getrip was fine with suspecting both Sulfurus and Rels when necessary and he even voted for both at some point. Not only that, but both Sulfurus AND Rels were two of our top suspects as Mafia. I can't shake off the feeling that getrip just really screwed up by accident and we were jumping on it for no reason. Either way, I think that everyone should look over everything again. On June 15 2015 01:29 MoosyDoosy wrote: How can you conclude that ruXxar is town based on this? If he's town, it's a bad play to bring it up because it draws attention to it. If he's scum, it's a bad play to bring it up because he would want to keep it secret and just shoot you. And I don't see anything in his tone that gives me a good read.^.^ I was hoping that someone would pick up on it and to get a solid read based on their reaction. Glad to see you're a townie with us ruXxar. On June 15 2015 01:39 ruXxar wrote: It was a strange change in behavior. However, using Bat Traps is an indicator of batsnacks being town. Batsnacks looks significantly better after that geript push, despite the result.Actually, I think there should be more discussion in general around the batsnacks trap case. Was I the only one that found it a strange change in behavior from him? Also, wow. Those points that batsnacks raised about Rels are really strong. Rels certainly has a lot to say for himself. ##vote Rels On June 15 2015 05:50 ruXxar wrote: Teams are randomized. Plus, it's best to go one lynch at a time.Here's some food for thought. So far we have scum reads on 2 mafia, Rels and Sulfu. Both are newbies. How likely do you think that all 3 mafia are in the newbie group? Would it not make sense that at least 1 mafia is part of the veteran group? People who have played previous newbie games, what is usually the distribution of mafia on newbie/veteran side? On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: This part of n00bKing's post is rather ironic. But I need to disagree here. N00bKing's lynch theory was hardly the most important contribution he's made to the thread, and I see no reason to believe it. There are several reasons for lynching him, one of them being that he's townread by most everyone in the game and is rather active. This is shown by people being suspicious of him during the night, and that suspicion went nowhere fast. N00bKing was almost certainly not going to be lynched this game.I don't particularly expect to be killed tonight. But just in case that happens, here's where my thoughts are at. Briefly, let's consider what it means if I do get killed. There was one post I made that I backreferenced twice, and is probably the post that would be most strongly associated with me. It was this one: I didn't have any luck whatsoever trying to get geript out of the noose, and some players (like damdred and batsnacks) have been saying that a lot of my posts can just be safely ignored. Based on all that, I don't think the scum players would kill me, to make it look like they were trying to silence me, to FRAME one of Sulfurus/batsnacks, if they were both actually town. Rather, the scum team would only kill me if my Theory was indeed correct, and one of Sulfurus/batsnacks IS scum. So remember, if the scum team kills me, the Theory is correct. We already know that I still think the Theory is correct, and I've mentioned some possible teammates for batsnacks (damdred, Moosy) if he is the bad guy in this scenario. And I said that I also had some ideas in mind about who could be possible teammates for Sulfurus, if he is the bad guy in this scenario. So here goes. The association case that n00bKing presents is very interesting, but I generally don't like association cases. I have various levels of suspicions about the people that he suspected, though. On June 14 2015 13:08 Sulfurus wrote: This read makes no sense. I didn't scumread Rels for changing his position a lot. I created a list of Rels' reads and used that as a basis for the arguments presented below, leaving the initial work there for people to check the evidence themselves. Please read more carefully.You basically said Rels his scum for changing his position a lot which isn't even alignment indicative. Like if you like at way rels changes his vote he actually does it in a very townie way giving good logic every time he's done. You on the other hand changed your vote to Geript sporadically (without even giving a read on him at any previous point in the thread) simply because Bats found a 'slip'. On June 15 2015 08:45 Sulfurus wrote: Catching ONE scum is enough of a challenge for me, much less catching multiple. If I can find someone who looks really scummy to lynch, that's about as much as I can hope for. I've been asking questions and pushing my suspicions, so I don't really understand how you can say that I've only been pushing one person.Can someone besides trfel explain to me why he is being so universally town read? I admit looking back his tunnel on rels is better then I thought but that's it. He has spent all his time on this one player and doesn't have good reads on anyone else yet multiple players have put him at the top of their townlists. On June 15 2015 09:18 Kickstart wrote: Posts like this are useless, and give me the feeling that Kickstart isn't invested in this game. He got townread, and then left for a long time. This isn't alignment indicative, but now that he's back, he isn't pushing the thread, or asking questions (which I really would expect, given how much he missed), but he's lurking and only responding when someone called for a cop check on him (right at the start of the day). Why doesn't he simply prove himself through his actions, or find scum?Cop check on me is only useful in confirming im town. I am not mafia nor is anyone really suspicious of me of being mafia from what I can tell, aside from being somewhat concerned over my afkness, cop should check someone that they think will turn up red. You are awfully concerned with what blue roles we have and what they do and you are quite wrong in what actions they should be taking. Let the blue roles play their roles and stop trying to direct them into bad plays or outing themselves. This is a huge contrast to the Kickstart at the start of the game, and the Kickstart I have seen before. And I don't like it one bit. On June 15 2015 11:18 Kickstart wrote: Wait, MORE of this? I don't understand why town!Kickstart would make these posts that don't provide any content and don't help town at all. Pure excuses, no scumhunting whatsoever.Of course me coming back after being afk looks bad, good job pointing out the obvious. Would you prefer I stayed afk? I don't need to make excuses cause it comes down to real life stuff which isn't anyone's business. Deal with it or don't. Me apologizing is because I don't think it is fair to everyone that I was afk when I am normally much more active. I should just ignore people commenting on me coming back but it annoyed me. On June 15 2015 11:38 WaveofShadow wrote: What is the mafia incentive for pushing Rels hard at times, and at other times going with other wagons? That's a lousy way to go about a bus, and if I'm scum and Rels is town, why would I keep jumping around between flipped town geript, likely town batsnacks, and assumed town Rels?Trfel - First to jump on the wake of Bat's 'discovery.' Eh. On looking through I thought he was on Rels all day and then dropped his amazing case instantly in favor of even after this post: But he was onto batsnacks as well at one point. It does kinda look as though he almost doesn't believe his own case at times because of his initial dropoff from Rels onto bats, then as bats lost ground back onto rels again and onto Geript. He does put a LOT of effort into his rels push when he is on him though so at the same time it seems doubtful that this is a half-assed push where he was just looking for an out. Not sold either on this one. Also liked his activity around the lynch and his first post after flip. Given the lackluster way geript was playing, I was suspicious of him. I didn't want to lynch him for that alone, though, because of the weekend and because of the potential risk. However, when batsnacks caught what I thought was a scumslip, this new information convinced me to lynch geript. If I didn't re-evaluate based on new information, that would be more telling. WaveofShadow, with your geript wagon analysis in mind, what do you think about ruXxar, given that you were townreading him earlier? + Show Spoiler [Quote] + On June 15 2015 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol also this moosy vs ruxxar business. I gotta say moosy you're scaring me a little because if I'm going to get burned by one of you it looks like you'd be the one. I can visibly see you improving in the middle of this game and part of me wonders if it's because you were sandbagging all along. Rels is looking pretty bad, the evidence presented by batsnacks pushes it over the top. Rels hasn't seemed at all interested in defending himself. I'm more than happy to lynch him. Kickstart is also looking quite bad. I just don't understand how a townie can be gone for many important events, then come back and only post saying that "being afk isn't alignment indicative". No scumhunting, no questions, no analysis, just excuses. I just don't know about Sulfurus any more. For scumreading me, he seems uninterested in pushing it, but he's so inactive that I'm not sure if this even applies. I just really hope that power roles or associations sort this out. Would like to see a response from Sulfurus about the flaws I've pointed out in his scumread of me. Damdred still feels off. I can't quite put my finger on it, though, beyond a few tells that are best kept to myself for now. I need to take a careful look at his filter in the near future. Also need to look more closely at MoosyDoosy, ruXxar, and Oatsmaster. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
Here is what I'm going to do. First I will defend against the cases I find in the thread, and answer any questions I see. Then, I will post my analysis of every player in this game. This will probably take all day 'cause I'm also working. For the people paying me, you know. I also have a meeting at 10:00 my time, in 30 minutes, so I will be interrupted for a few hours in the middle. So. Let's start with Trfel's case. On June 13 2015 07:14 Trfel wrote: Rels 1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler + 1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments* The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them. Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants. On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.OK I finally found a mafia. There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work. 2. Makes a case on the easiest possible target + Show Spoiler + Fake)Plants only had one post. Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening. 3. Townread on ruXxar + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent. So. What do you think of plants first and only post ? Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever. I already defended against this case. Apparently people have forgotten, so here I go again. It's a good day 1 case so I can only explain my point of view. Nevertheless, only the second point is a strong one. 1. When I entered the thread, I was the last player to do so, if you don't count boxerfred who got replaced. So I had to catch up, and I commented on every post I saw. This is a pretty weak point actually, as someone could do that as either alignement. It's true that it's not town indicative. It's also true that it's not scum indicative. It's just that: NAI. 2. This is the stronger point of the case. Going after the easiest target is certainly scummy. But it's not the scummiest thing possible: the scummiest is to jump on an easy train. That's not what I did here. What I read the thread for the first time, plants' post jumped to me as super scummy, so I analyzed it and pushed a case. I think what is more scummy in my attitude is not the push on plants. It's that it's almost the only analysis I did since the beginning of the game. I understand perfectly what that looks like: 1 - do 1 case 2 - say you're done 3 - don't do anything afterwards. That is almost true so people has the right to suspect me for that reason. This is going to change today, so if you're a good town and that's your reason for voting me, please re evaluate your reads in 12 hours. I say almost 'cause I also did some analysis on moosy, batsnacks' meta and Sulfu's meta. But it's not much for 3 days of playing. 3. On the contrary, that is a super weak point. Because Trfel in his analysis missed this post, one of my first: On June 12 2015 16:39 Rels wrote: How can you scumlean him for his first post. That is not a good reason. This is what happened: 1 - I suspected ruxxar for his "scumlean" magical apparence on KS. 2 - My suspicion was greatly lessened by another post made by him. But the third point of Trfel says I only did the second step. And it's false. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 13 2015 07:16 batsnacks wrote: 4. Hasn't re-evaluated his read on plants now that scott has replaced, which one would think would be a high priority for him. This is batsnacks 4th added point on Trfel case. I wasn't going to respond to it, but I'm seeing that Trfel thinks it's true. On June 13 2015 11:07 Trfel wrote: [...] So, Rels made a faked post that was an easy contribution. Then he didn't re-evaluate when the player he was scumreading (largely for inactivity) was replaced, and then batsnacks read Rels' filter and Rels looked scummier. [...] Trfel and BS are both saying I didn't re evaluate my read after scott replaced him. I'm going to prove that is not true. Here is what happened: 1 - I did my case on plants 2 - I quit the thread 3 - Before I went back to the thread, batsnacks said I didn't re evaluate 4 - I went back to the thread and re evaluated. So the point of me not re evaluating is wrong, because it was said when I was not here. If you don't believe me let's look at the chronolical order of posting: First Last post of me before I quit the thread. I'm still on plants and scott didn't replace yet. + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent. So. What do you think of plants first and only post ? Second scott was replaced and I was not reading the thread. Batsnacks post this saying I was not re evaluating my read after scott replaced. It is non sense because I couldn't have re evaluated my read because I wasn't here. + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2015 07:16 batsnacks wrote: 4. Hasn't re-evaluated his read on plants now that scott has replaced, which one would think would be a high priority for him. Third In the first post when I came back, I re evaluated my read. + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2015 07:16 Rels wrote: Re everyone. Welcome Dam and scott then! scott - I hated the only post of your predecessor, so I will probably push you super easily. Your posts atm are alright. Hard to be re-evaluating when not present. Don't know really, I just felt like this post would be super hard to fake. For the record, I already responded to this point here, so that's the second time I do that. Stop bringing up false things in the future. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
So see you in a few hours! (= | ||
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ruXxar
Norway5669 Posts
On June 15 2015 17:01 Rels wrote: Alright as I said I have a meeting, so I'm stopping here for the moment. I'm rereading the thread to make sure I don't miss question or case against me and I'm currently page 31. I will get back to it after the meeting. So see you in a few hours! (= When you are back I want to hear your opinion on sulfur and his adamant defense of you. What do you think of his reasons for doing so. Why do you think he would do such a thing? | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 14 2015 04:56 Trfel wrote: Rels' Read Progression
+ Show Spoiler [Examples] + Criticizing MoosyDoosy's opening post (geript already did this) Suspicious of batsnacks (common suspicion), geript (WaveofShadow already said this), and MoosyDoosy (geript) Agrees with the suspicion I voiced on MoosyDoosy Immediately asked geript for his reason for being suspicious of scott31337, suddenly is more suspicious of him himself (see my previous post) It seems like Rels is like a leaf in the wind, following thread sentiment, jumping on whatever works. He townreads people who are being townread already, he scumreads people who are being scumread, and only changes when the thread sentiment shifts. The one major departure from this trend is when he townreads batsnacks. He did this before Damdred jumped in. This is a pretty big change in his read, and against the thread sentiment. However, I think that the way that Rels jumps on whatever suspicion is available every other time in the thread is quite telling. I don't know how Trfel can say that about me when three of my only strong reads at the time were not following thread sentiment: - plants scummy - sulfu townie - bats townie Furthermore, saying I suspect geript because of wos' earlier suspicions is pretty stupid. Trfel, the rest of your posts about me is good but this one is super shitty, you're forcing a read. I suppose it's confirmation bias. (bold on "at the time" 'cause I'm tired of people misusing my quotes. If later I find plants townie, sulfu scummy or bats scummy and you want to attack me for that, don't quote this post it's useless. Find something else) NB I almost posted this post without reading the posts after. Lucky for me I did, because noobking posted a rebuttal just after Trfel's post here. He's saying more or less the same as I do. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 15 2015 18:48 ruXxar wrote: When you are back I want to hear your opinion on sulfur and his adamant defense of you. What do you think of his reasons for doing so. Why do you think he would do such a thing? I will do an analysis and post my thought about every player when I'm done defending myself. But the short answer is: I'm not adament to him being town, as I was willing to lynch him instead of bats if the choice was between the two. Again, at the time. But I thought and still think he's townie because: - meta (he's playing exactly like last game where he was town) - he's not jumping on the easy train (lynching me) | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 14 2015 11:33 scott31337 wrote: Oh fish ul Votecount Oatsmaster (0): ruXxar (0): Kickstart (0): Sulfurus (2): Kickstart, Batsnacks (2): n00bKing, scott113133373737131731371313713137 (0): geript (8): Rels (1): Rels - So Sulfurus made five posts between these two reads - a bad read post on Damdred, and a few posts about lynching Trfel. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/486978-newbie-student-mafia-xi?user=Sulfurus Sulf went from second on your lynch list to "sure town" - Can you inform me how you came to this reasoning? Do you want to lynch Trfel now as well? scott linked two posts of mine and say there is an evolution of reads without explanation. In the first post, he's saying that I think sulfu is mafia. That is false. In the second post, he's saying that I think sulfu is town. That is true. The problem in his analysis of this sentence: On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu. Here I exprim the fact that if I had to choose between batsnacks and sulfu, I would lynch Sulfu. It is NOT saying that Sulfu is second in my list lynch. On June 14 2015 11:33 scott31337 wrote: Sulf went from second on your lynch list to "sure town" Scott is saying that my post means: Sulfu is second in my lynch list. Scott, your first question is nonsense because your affirmation preceding it is false. Your second question: On June 14 2015 11:33 scott31337 wrote: Do you want to lynch Trfel now as well? No. WHAT THE FUCK is this question. Please explain it to me. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 15 2015 04:28 ruXxar wrote: Then: I want to know what specifically made you change your opinion on sulfurus and damdred. [...] Nothing changed about Sulfu's read. See this post where I explain it. The reason for why I changed my read on Damdred is in the two posts you quoted ... seriously. Just had to read them. On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking. On June 14 2015 06:13 Rels wrote: Damdred stopped lurking and his posts seems townie to me. Now, a better question you could have asked: what did I mean by "his posts seems townie to me". And it's true that it's pretty bad saying that without backing it up. The first reason, stopping lurking, is why I didn't consider him for a lynch day 1. Right now, Damdred's posts left a townie feeling on me but I have no idea why. Will analyze them later along when I start analyzing people. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 15 2015 05:12 batsnacks wrote: Alright Rels is mafia. His read progression on sulfurus goes like this:
Chronological order: + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2015 09:00 Rels wrote: If it was any other person I would have agree with you about voting opportunistically. But Sulfu played exactly like that last game. On June 13 2015 09:07 Rels wrote: Town lean Trfel Sulfu Oats ruxxar On June 13 2015 09:11 Rels wrote: Yeah I would have agreed if someone else voted you like that. But Sulfu did that day 1 last game. On Breshke and SL. On June 13 2015 18:33 Rels wrote: I agree. But quality is not the reason I'm unvoting him. No idea who I want to lynch. Two of my three town reads are voting sulfurus. I'm suspicious of Sulfu for two reasons: - The "case" on KS on his first post doesn't exist - The vote on BS is opportunist On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu. ##Vote geript The events described here are all true. The conclusion is false. I thought that Sulfu was townie. As said, the two things making me suspecting him are described here. Yes, one point against Sulfu is that he voted for you opportustically. But I still thought Sulfu was townie, while still having two points against him. batsnacks, the summary of your case is: - my read on Sulfu changed without reasons. ==>I just proved that to be false. - I voted geript even though I find Sulfu scummy. ==> That is not true. Two things about that: ===> Never said I was willing to lynch Sulfu. I said that if I had to choose between you and Sulfu, I would lynch Sulfu. See this post. ===> Even though I have suspicions against Sulfu, I think he's townie. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 15 2015 05:22 Damdred wrote: I agree regardless of alignment. I need to look at context was his subtle switch on rels when the wagon on sul building? I don't understand this post. I assume you're talking about Sulfu so: What his Sulfu's "subtle switch on rels when the wagon on sul building ?" | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 15 2015 05:37 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, I started reading filters and I especially looked at Rels/Sulfurus as people have been implying. I REALLY think they're both Mafia. Rels first comes into the thread and directs all attention to the passive posts from both me and Fake)Plants. + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia. First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph. What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points: - He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot. Then he tries to switch the case onto me-geript-batsnacks which is the next best scapegoat from a newbie who only posted once and never again. Not only that, but notice how he attempts to bring this under the light while trying to cover for Sulfurus who is beginning to become suspected. + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2015 07:29 Rels wrote: I have strong town reads on wos and KS. I have town reads on ruxxar, oats and trfel. I really want to like Sulfu as he had the same attitude of "not posting a lot but ask question" last game, and he was town. But I think he has less than 5 posts atm, that's really not a lot. Everybody I have not talk about I have either no read or mafia lean. It's especially hard on the moosy - geript - bats situation. I don't like moosy for : - his first post - his multiple times stating he is a newbie But geript's reasoning for voting him is super bad. And batsnacks' one is so weird, involving double bus at one point. Well. Here is my brain atm. Then he tries to make a case on me once people tell him me-geript-batsnacks was never a thing. + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true. I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them. First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post: I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post. Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about: After this, he leaves the thread for a bit and posts a list of people he suspects in order to pretend to be active. Then WaveofShadow, Oats, and me begin to defend batsnacks whereupon a case begins to form around geript and Sulfurus. Rels decides upon lynching geript and not Sulfurus. Note that before this he is also defending Sulfurus by saying he played the same way in "the previous game". However, batsnacks provided several examples where Sulfurus was providing better critical analysis whereupon Rels is forced to remain quiet. + Show Spoiler + On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking. If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu. ##Vote geript As Trfel already pointed out, Rels also does not really seem to support this vote as he already knows who Mafia REALLY is. + Show Spoiler + On June 14 2015 01:27 Rels wrote: Yo geript. If you ever remember that reason I'll be super interested, as I hated plants' only post. Please answer this post: And from this point, Rels disappears, never addresses Trfel's point and he never really answered any other questions as well. I'm curious to see his response when he comes back although I believe a strong case can be made against both Rels and Sulfurus as a team of Mafia. I don't understand what are the clear points that make me mafia. Try to do like Trfel and summarize your points, because there is no clear points in your case. Seriously, I'm not saying it because I want to be mean; but your case is useless like that. I will help you summarize it, so I can respond to it. If you don't agree with my summary, please rewrite your post with a summary. If I understood correctly your case is: 1 - When I first entered the thread, I directed the attention to passive posters. 2 - I tried to push a lynch on you, bat and geript at the same time. When that didn't work I tried to push a lynch on you. 3 - I pretended to be active 4 - I defended Sulfu 5 - I was not that engaged on geript's lynch. 6 - I didn't answer Trfel's case or questions directed at me. Alright now that the summary is done, I can answer your case. I will answer again if my summary is false, don't hesitate rewriting your case if I misunderstood something. 1 - So what. 2 - Never tried to push the three of you. Just layed my thoughts. I also never tried to push a case on you. The "case" on you that you quoted is not a case but real interrogations I had about you. 3 - I never pretended to be active. But it's true I did almost no analysis since I started playing. So I can't defend against this point right now. Your opinion may change when I do analysis today. 4 - So what. 5 - Now that is your strongest point in your case. It is true, I wasn't that engaged on geript's lynch. The explanation for why is here: On June 13 2015 19:02 Rels wrote: I read his filter and if we're voting BS for no quality post, geript's post are worse. Didn't find anything scummy per se, but there is the push on moosy for a weird reason ... and that's it. He doesn't even answer properly to questions. WOS why did you stop voting him ? I didn't find anything scummy per se in geript's filter. So my reasons for voting him were: - he didn't do anything - he didn't answer to questions 6 - That partially not true. I already answered Trfel's case before EOD. That's true I didn't answer any other questions. That point is now moot because I answered again to Trfel's case and answered any questions I saw. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 15 2015 05:44 MoosyDoosy wrote: As a note, I also doubt that Damdred is Mafia. Rels seemed perfectly fine with lynching him and even pointed out. I also saw little synergy between Damdred and the others as well. I was not perfectly fine lynching Damdred. Please read this post. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: [...] Sulfurus has not made any posts where he is speaking directly to ruXxar OR rels. None. NONE! Nor has ruXxar made ANY posts where he is speaking directly to Sulfurus. Rels has made only 1 post where he is speaking directly to Sulfurus, and has made 2 posts where he is speaking directly to ruXxar. ruXxar has made only 1 post where he is speaking directly to Rels, and that was a post where he is answering a question that Rels has posed to him. But although these guys don't ever talk to each other, they talk ABOUT each other plenty. If you look through their respective filters, you'll find a LOT of instances where they are soft-defending each other, and giving each other slight town reads. Occasionally one of them will give one of the others a hard town read instead. Sometimes they talk about their willingness to vote against one of the others, but it NEVER actually happens. [...] From noobkind wall of text. That is a super good point. Didn't remark that even though Sulfu defended me so hard, he never even talked to me. This is another point in my suspicions of him. On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: [...] And it's a GOOD question. If Sulfurus is scum and trying to avoid the noose, why is he protecting this new potential target (Rels)? Well, one explanation that would make sense is: If Rels is ALSO scum. [...] But this is convincing me that Sulfu is town even more. If Sulfu is mafia, there is no way he's defending me so hard, when, as noobking said, I'm a easy train de hop on and we're two likely candidates for lynch. With this, even though noobking last will is to lynch Sulfu, I'm now convinced he's town. | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
And in the end, I have no idea who he thinks is scum, only numerous townreads. | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
On June 15 2015 07:04 MoosyDoosy wrote: ##vote Rels Good job n00bKing you did well. On June 15 2015 07:09 scott31337 wrote: What an awesome post, n00b. I haven't felt good about Sulf or Rels, and Rels didn't reply to anything, just went to sleep. ##Vote Rels Hahaha that is so good (= I'm so happy to read these two posts. I think the two posters are scum. Here is why. All the suspicions noobkind put on me start with the premise that Sulfu is town. He himself say to lynch Sulfu first, then IF Sulfu is mafia, to lynch ruxxar or me day 3. He also says than ruxxar would be a better lynch than me day 3. Don't believe me ? On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: Sulfurus would be my top lynch on Day 2. If he flips Red, is it better to go after ruXxar or Rels next? That's tough. The ties between Sulfurus and ruXxar are definitely stronger than the ties between Sulfurus and Rels. But Rels is being read by more people as being generally scummy right now, so he might be the easier lynch, even if ruXxar could be the more logical lynch. [...] If Sulfurus flips Green, then it's back to the drawing board, to some extent. Hopefully that would mean a batsnacks scum team, and he's paired with either Moosy or damdred. But that case is tougher to make than Sulfurus/ruXxar/Rels. So. Just after this post, noobking dies and here is what happens: 1 - moosy and scott both expressed good feelings about noobking's post. 2 - noobking's post say to lynch Sulfu day 2, and if he flips mafia, to lynch ruxxar and me, ruxxar being the stronger lynch 3 - moosy and scott vote me instead. You know what is even funnier ? Let me quote this moosy post that happens just after his vote to me. Please read it carefully. On June 15 2015 07:05 MoosyDoosy wrote: Alright guys, Rels first then Sulfurus. After that, we re-look over n00bKing's post then decide on the next person. I'm inclined to trust him though. That analysis was so good. That "so good analysis" that moosy is talking about says to lynch Sulfu first, and that I'm not mafia unless Sulfu is too. But moosy wants to lynch me first. Then he wants to lynch Sulfu. And finally ruxxar. I can see a scum agenda here. How ? Let's consider this timeline: 1 - we lynch Sulfu, he flips green 2 - if we follow noobking post, we're not lynching me nor ruxxar anymore. Conclusion: we only mislynched once. moosy seems to be pushing for a better timeline for mafia: 1 - we lynch me, I flip green 2 - too bad! Let's follow noobking post again ... mm that's true he asked for sulfu's lynch first. 3 - we lynch sulfu, I flip green Conclusion: two mislynches | ||
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Rels
France13467 Posts
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and geript seems to be the lynch.
