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Newbie Student Mafia XI - Page 9

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Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
June 11 2015 23:29 GMT
#161
I'm joking with him it means nothing. His statement was silly and scummy, I said I would let him decide which one he wants us to classify it as. (hint: I think it is mildly scummy).
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
June 11 2015 23:35 GMT
#162
On June 12 2015 08:29 Kickstart wrote:
I'm joking with him it means nothing. His statement was silly and scummy, I said I would let him decide which one he wants us to classify it as. (hint: I think it is mildly scummy).
Thanks.

On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
Now that you know that there are three mafia, do you stand by this statement?
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
June 11 2015 23:37 GMT
#163
On June 12 2015 08:19 Trfel wrote:
ruXxar

1. Answered a question directed to someone else, while explaining why answering questions directed at others hurts town
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 07:36 ruXxar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2015 07:32 Trfel wrote:
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote:
A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?


Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.

If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.

At least that is what I think.
RuXxar provided a reasonable explanation for why it is bad to answer questions directed at other people. However, this explanation was an answer to my question directed at Kickstart. In this very post, he's doing why he says that this is bad.

He's confident enough to ignore any potential purpose that I had for this question, confident enough in Kickstart's alignment that he doesn't want to hear Kickstart's answer, but not confident enough to leave the post without stating that this is what he thinks, implying that he could be wrong.


2. The person he answered a question for is now his scumread
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 07:46 ruXxar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2015 07:41 Trfel wrote:
On June 12 2015 07:36 ruXxar wrote:
On June 12 2015 07:32 Trfel wrote:
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote:
A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?


Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.

If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.

At least that is what I think.
........

The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.

Scum lean.


What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement.
I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.

So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
When he is questioned, ruxXar throws out a scum lean. However, he does this on Kickstart, the same player he just answered a question for.

Imagine that ruXxar is town. He sees Kickstart make a post, but doesn't try to look into his alignment. Then he sees me (Trfel) ask a question to Kickstart about that post, then immediately answers the question without stopping to realize that this is the same behavior criticized in his explanation (and he realizes that his play hurt town here). Only after answering my question to Kickstart does he bother to actually think about Kickstart's alignment.

I can't see this coming from a town mindset, from someone who is actually interested in determining people's alignments.

Furthermore, he hasn't made any alignment-related comments about anyone in the game other than Kickstart.


RuXxar is being contradictory, cautious, and is showing a mindset that isn't towny at all. He's not interested in thinking about people's alignments.
Please tell me why I'm wrong, or vote for ruXxar.
batsnacks
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
United States4466 Posts
June 11 2015 23:42 GMT
#164
I'm going to make a quick and easy how to play town guide:

  1. don't claim your role
  2. find exactly 1 person who you think is mafia
  3. say why this 1 person is mafia
  4. do not form reads based on unflipped associations e.g. player X AND player Y could be mafia together because Z.
ruXxar
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway5669 Posts
June 11 2015 23:43 GMT
#165
On June 12 2015 08:19 Trfel wrote:
ruXxar

1. Answered a question directed to someone else, while explaining why answering questions directed at others hurts town
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 07:36 ruXxar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2015 07:32 Trfel wrote:
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote:
A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?


Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.

If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.

At least that is what I think.
RuXxar provided a reasonable explanation for why it is bad to answer questions directed at other people. However, this explanation was an answer to my question directed at Kickstart. In this very post, he's doing why he says that this is bad.

He's confident enough to ignore any potential purpose that I had for this question, confident enough in Kickstart's alignment that he doesn't want to hear Kickstart's answer, but not confident enough to leave the post without stating that this is what he thinks, implying that he could be wrong.


2. The person he answered a question for is now his scumread
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 07:46 ruXxar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2015 07:41 Trfel wrote:
On June 12 2015 07:36 ruXxar wrote:
On June 12 2015 07:32 Trfel wrote:
On June 12 2015 07:18 Kickstart wrote:
A friendly PSA: I don't like lurkers or liers or people who answer questions directed at other people.
Why don't you like it when people answer questions directed at others?


Usually you want to hear the reasoning of the person you're asking.

If someone answers the question before him, you potentially open up for someone else to make a logical conclusion beforehand, and then the guy the question was directed at get an easy bandwagon onto that guys conclusions.

At least that is what I think.
........

The "at least that is what I think" pushes it over the top. I could see it as a joke, but then there's no reason to include the last sentence. It's either inherently contradictory or unnecessarily cautious.

Scum lean.


What I meant by the last sentence was that that was my number one assumption of why he made that statement.
I won't pretend to be a mind reader, but I find it strange that he throws out unsubstantiated claims like that.

So far kickstart is a scumlean for me.
When he is questioned, ruxXar throws out a scum lean. However, he does this on Kickstart, the same player he just answered a question for.

Imagine that ruXxar is town. He sees Kickstart make a post, but doesn't try to look into his alignment. Then he sees me (Trfel) ask a question to Kickstart about that post, then immediately answers the question without stopping to realize that this is the same behavior criticized in his explanation (and he realizes that his play hurt town here). Only after answering my question to Kickstart does he bother to actually think about Kickstart's alignment.

I can't see this coming from a town mindset, from someone who is actually interested in determining people's alignments.

Furthermore, he hasn't made any alignment-related comments about anyone in the game other than Kickstart.


RuXxar is being contradictory, cautious, and is showing a mindset that isn't towny at all. He's not interested in thinking about people's alignments.


I beg to differ.

I've been leading an open and active discussion, answering and asking questions.
If I was scum I would be very careful not to expose myself like that.
I already admitted that I missed the logical inconsistency in answering kick starts question.

If I had been mafia then I would have been way more careful in considering my response and not make such an obvious error.

The only one that has made any statements that I don't understand / agree with so far is kick start.
He's also dodged my question so far.

Liers means if you say you are going to do something but don't when it comes to forum mafia. Also good job breaking one of my rules,


He only explained what it means, not why he said it.

So @ kickstart.

Please explain why you don't like liars.
"alright guys im claiming my role im actually politician I can manipulate a persons vote during the day phase, used it on clarity last phase and forced him to vote for HF. full role name donald trump, definitely town sided". - EBH
batsnacks
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
United States4466 Posts
June 11 2015 23:45 GMT
#166
5. Don't lie.
n00bKing
Profile Joined June 2015
United States1202 Posts
June 11 2015 23:46 GMT
#167
On June 12 2015 08:24 ruXxar wrote:
I'm not voting on anyone yet, it's way too early for that.

I'm gathering information to base my reads upon.
I can only evaluate what I've read so far.

Putting pressure on people is also a good thing, not necessarily because you believe they are scum, but to see how they react in tense situations.

You're right, putting pressure on people can be a good thing, to see how they react.

That's why you're wrong, it is not too early to vote.
ruXxar
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway5669 Posts
June 11 2015 23:51 GMT
#168
On June 12 2015 08:45 batsnacks wrote:
5. Don't lie.


Not sure how this is relevant?
"alright guys im claiming my role im actually politician I can manipulate a persons vote during the day phase, used it on clarity last phase and forced him to vote for HF. full role name donald trump, definitely town sided". - EBH
n00bKing
Profile Joined June 2015
United States1202 Posts
June 11 2015 23:51 GMT
#169
On June 12 2015 08:45 batsnacks wrote:
5. Don't lie.

RuXx is on the Newbie list. How likely do you think it is that an inexperienced Mafia player would lead off the game talking about how it's cool for Town players to lie? An inexperienced Mafia member might be timid about saying hardly anything, but could be especially timid about telling everyone that there's nothing wrong with telling lies, even if you're Town. That kind of reckless boldness is a little Town-indicative to me.

Someone wants to vote against him because of his needless roleclaim, fine. But voting against him because he says it's fine to lie would be a stretch. And I think voting against him because he got caught answering a question directed at someone else (while explaining why you shouldn't answer questions directed at someone else) would be a stretch.
ruXxar
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway5669 Posts
June 11 2015 23:53 GMT
#170
On June 12 2015 08:46 n00bKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2015 08:24 ruXxar wrote:
I'm not voting on anyone yet, it's way too early for that.

I'm gathering information to base my reads upon.
I can only evaluate what I've read so far.

Putting pressure on people is also a good thing, not necessarily because you believe they are scum, but to see how they react in tense situations.

You're right, putting pressure on people can be a good thing, to see how they react.

That's why you're wrong, it is not too early to vote.


I agree.

As said, it's my first time playing mafia and I haven't been in many situations lately where i have to formulate sharp logical arguments.
"alright guys im claiming my role im actually politician I can manipulate a persons vote during the day phase, used it on clarity last phase and forced him to vote for HF. full role name donald trump, definitely town sided". - EBH
Trfel
Profile Joined August 2011
7015 Posts
June 11 2015 23:55 GMT
#171
On June 12 2015 08:51 n00bKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2015 08:45 batsnacks wrote:
5. Don't lie.

RuXx is on the Newbie list. How likely do you think it is that an inexperienced Mafia player would lead off the game talking about how it's cool for Town players to lie? An inexperienced Mafia member might be timid about saying hardly anything, but could be especially timid about telling everyone that there's nothing wrong with telling lies, even if you're Town. That kind of reckless boldness is a little Town-indicative to me.

Someone wants to vote against him because of his needless roleclaim, fine. But voting against him because he says it's fine to lie would be a stretch. And I think voting against him because he got caught answering a question directed at someone else (while explaining why you shouldn't answer questions directed at someone else) would be a stretch.
I disagree. He wouldn't dare say this as scum, unless he actually believes that it is acceptable and beneficial for town to lie. And as town, he would only say this if he actually believes it (yes, I see the irony). Either alignment, he's saying something that he believes to be true, so this isn't alignment indicative.

Vote for ruXxar because he only bothered to try and figure out someone's alignment after making posts deflecting my questions of that person.
ruXxar
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Norway5669 Posts
June 11 2015 23:56 GMT
#172
I'm going to bed now to get some good rest.
I hope to see lots of activity when I read the thread tomorrow!
"alright guys im claiming my role im actually politician I can manipulate a persons vote during the day phase, used it on clarity last phase and forced him to vote for HF. full role name donald trump, definitely town sided". - EBH
batsnacks
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
United States4466 Posts
June 11 2015 23:57 GMT
#173
On June 12 2015 08:51 n00bKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2015 08:45 batsnacks wrote:
5. Don't lie.

RuXx is on the Newbie list. How likely do you think it is that an inexperienced Mafia player would lead off the game talking about how it's cool for Town players to lie? An inexperienced Mafia member might be timid about saying hardly anything, but could be especially timid about telling everyone that there's nothing wrong with telling lies, even if you're Town. That kind of reckless boldness is a little Town-indicative to me.

Someone wants to vote against him because of his needless roleclaim, fine. But voting against him because he says it's fine to lie would be a stretch. And I think voting against him because he got caught answering a question directed at someone else (while explaining why you shouldn't answer questions directed at someone else) would be a stretch.


I don't think it would be productive for town for me to defend ruxxar. He's a big boy.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
June 11 2015 23:58 GMT
#174
##vote moosydoosy
batsnacks
Profile Blog Joined April 2014
United States4466 Posts
June 12 2015 00:36 GMT
#175
Through repetition of danger we grow accustomed to it. Water sets the example for the right conduct under such circumstances. It flows on and on, and merely fills up all the places through which it flows; it does not shrink from any dangerous spot nor from any plunge, and nothing can make it lose its own essential nature. It remains true to itself under all conditions. Thus likewise, if one is sincere when confronted with difficulties, the heart can penetrate the meaning of the situation. And once we have gained inner mastery of a problem, it will come about naturally that the action we take will succeed. In danger all that counts is really carrying out all that has to be done.

Properly used, danger can have an important meaning as a protective measure. Thus heaven has its perilous height protecting it against every attempt at invasion, and earth has its mountains and bodies of water, separating countries by their dangers. Thus also rulers make use of danger to protect themselves against attacks from without and against turmoil within.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
June 12 2015 01:08 GMT
#176
I've explained the no lying thing, read please. If you say you will do something do it - that is what is generally meant in forum mafia about lying. If you say " I will give my reads at such and such time", then you better do it, etc etc.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
June 12 2015 01:09 GMT
#177
And town shouldn't really lie anyways. I don't know how ruxxar got in his mind that this game is about lying all over the place. Towns job is to not lie and be open and honest, only people that need to be thinking about lying this early are scum, save for some rare situations.
Sulfurus
Profile Joined May 2015
United States166 Posts
June 12 2015 01:12 GMT
#178
I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.

On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.

##Vote: Kickstarter

(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
June 12 2015 01:17 GMT
#179
What case. The only case is that ruxxar misunderstood everything I said.

Just an fyi, I will tunnel people to hell and back who willfully misrepresent what I say. Ask Oats. Whenever he decides to show up that is.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
June 12 2015 01:18 GMT
#180
Ruxxar is looking most scummy and sulfurus needlessly hoping on me as well is suspicious. Especially when he cites a non existent case as the reason.
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