Damn, Trfel. I don't think you were getting lynched in a million years this game. Nobody wanted to live in a world where you were mafia because you were just too town. Good work.

Basically everyone was convinced the team included ruxXar. Hah.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

June 23 2015 11:57 GMT

#2742

On June 23 2015 17:44 ruXxar wrote:
Another thing that we missed was the no lynch.
We should've absolutely no lynched.
It always the best option in a Mylo situation.
You reduce the amount if town, so that a bigger percentage of the group is mafia.
This means that when you lunch next day, you have a bigger chance of lynching mafia.

I don't think you should think the bolded part is correct.
In this game it would have been a right thing to do but in a lot of situations you just lose the player who is most likely going to find mafia, looks the most town, and end up with no new information - in fact you end up in a worse spot.

Let's say in this game Oats did not claim cop and that Wave was in fact town. Do you no-lynch? What do you learn when Wave the obvious night kill just dies? Or switch Wave with Trfel here. Or with any townie everyone townreads.

WaveofShadow

Canada31495 Posts

June 23 2015 12:06 GMT

#2743

If I was actually town I would have died earlier. It's kind of hard to make that kind of theoretical argument.

Yes you're right that it's not always the right call, but you don't necessarily have people who are amazingly good at solving the game by the time you get to MYLO so it's tougher to say.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

June 23 2015 12:12 GMT

#2744

Okay maybe "amazingly good at solving the game" is a wrong wording to use if i implied so.

Usually, with no blues around anymore (if you discount Oats' claim here) the most townie person dies, it's gonna be a no-brainer and only causes WIFOM. They were either right or wrong (but still looked town) and you can't really say "hey this guy died because he said these people are mafia", especially if the town doesn't really either (1) have a clear clue who is scum or (2) all think certain people are scum. Both of those are usually the cases, either mafia is playing too well and the townies are just wrong or "everyone is right" and mafia has been mostly found out.

Both of those cases in my opinion gain more from there being the "obvious town who noone thinks is mafia" alive, because you can be sure their voting/thoughts are from town perspective.

EDIT: Like imo it's really much harder to convince 2 of 4 townies to vote with you than it is to convince 1 of 3 townies to do so as mafia.

WaveofShadow

Canada31495 Posts

June 23 2015 12:51 GMT

#2745

On June 23 2015 21:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay maybe "amazingly good at solving the game" is a wrong wording to use if i implied so.

Usually, with no blues around anymore (if you discount Oats' claim here) the most townie person dies, it's gonna be a no-brainer and only causes WIFOM. They were either right or wrong (but still looked town) and you can't really say "hey this guy died because he said these people are mafia", especially if the town doesn't really either (1) have a clear clue who is scum or (2) all think certain people are scum. Both of those are usually the cases, either mafia is playing too well and the townies are just wrong or "everyone is right" and mafia has been mostly found out.

Both of those cases in my opinion gain more from there being the "obvious town who noone thinks is mafia" alive, because you can be sure their voting/thoughts are from town perspective.

EDIT: Like imo it's really much harder to convince 2 of 4 townies to vote with you than it is to convince 1 of 3 townies to do so as mafia.

I'll concede the point if there is an extremely obvious NK and it's not going to help you narrow things down any further but you also have to then assume that it will be extremely obvious for everyone in the game and/or no major dissenting opinions like you were saying. I think as a general rule though especially for these newbies no lynching at MYLO is usually the way to go, and as they get better they'll be able to judge for themselves each game beyond that if there is a point to doing so.

Edit: And I just read that Ruxxar said always no lynch at MYLO so yeah Rayn is definitely right---there are cases where it doesn't necessarily help like he's been saying.

raynpelikoneet

Finland43270 Posts

June 23 2015 13:00 GMT

#2746

Yes you are right Wave.

The problem however becomes when the game plays out like it usually does if there is going to be a no-lynch in MYLO. Like what you and Trfel did in this game. Both of you posted some analysis on the last day but neither of you reached into any hard conclusions (tbf neither did the townies). The final conclsuion for ALL the players were "Oats is mafia, who cares about the other mafia at this point". Regardless of if you would correctly lynch Oats (or any other player in any other situation) or no-lynch here, you really gain nothing, just because you lynched the obvious mafia and noone ever cared about the OTHER mafia (which in this case - in this game, should be the MAIN point of discussion on D4).

Like if everyone is dead set on Oats being mafia here why talk about him? Just ignore him and try to find the other mafia, otherwise you are just wasting the day. When i read the final day i got the impression RuXx, kickstart and Rels were actually trying to figure out the game as a whole. Trfel posted analysis but didn't really look like he was interested in ACTUALLY solving the game rather than just looking good. Wave and Oats were obviously just calling each other mafia and finding reasons why the other one is mafia - which is reasonable.

My interpretation is in the end mafia just shot down town's attempts to actually talk about anything relevant and kept the game onto "let's lynch Oats and figure the game out later". And they did it well.

Rels

France13467 Posts

June 23 2015 13:20 GMT

#2747

On June 23 2015 22:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes you are right Wave.

The problem however becomes when the game plays out like it usually does if there is going to be a no-lynch in MYLO. Like what you and Trfel did in this game. Both of you posted some analysis on the last day but neither of you reached into any hard conclusions (tbf neither did the townies). The final conclsuion for ALL the players were "Oats is mafia, who cares about the other mafia at this point". Regardless of if you would correctly lynch Oats (or any other player in any other situation) or no-lynch here, you really gain nothing, just because you lynched the obvious mafia and noone ever cared about the OTHER mafia (which in this case - in this game, should be the MAIN point of discussion on D4).

Like if everyone is dead set on Oats being mafia here why talk about him? Just ignore him and try to find the other mafia, otherwise you are just wasting the day. When i read the final day i got the impression RuXx, kickstart and Rels were actually trying to figure out the game as a whole. Trfel posted analysis but didn't really look like he was interested in ACTUALLY solving the game rather than just looking good. Wave and Oats were obviously just calling each other mafia and finding reasons why the other one is mafia - which is reasonable.

My interpretation is in the end mafia just shot down town's attempts to actually talk about anything relevant and kept the game onto "let's lynch Oats and figure the game out later". And they did it well.

Yeah exactly. We as town should have pushed hard on WOS, who was content on lyncing Oats, towreading KS Trfel and me, and discussing very calmly with ruxxar. I was fooled the whole game by WOS so no regret over the past days; but I know we, as town, could have played a lot better that last day.

Like I should have pushed this post way harder:

On June 23 2015 03:08 Rels wrote:

Show nested quote +

I find that super weird. You know for a FACT that Oats is mafia. You've known for more then 24 hours. But you just did nothing really, when you could be hunting scum. You are the only one that can do it with certitude.

You seem too ... static when even if Oats is scum, we still have another MYLO tomorrow.

I'm like super angry at myself for that last day. Not the rest of the game as my reads were super shitty. But that last day we could have won! But oh well, I learned sooo much too this game. Next one is gonna be better (=

Oatsmaster

United States16628 Posts

June 23 2015 14:10 GMT

#2748

Meh the way I thought about it there was way less chance for rux or rels or kickstart to be mafia than wave and trfel, so that's how I got it. Honestly, townies don't necessarily have the best logic in the world, townie play imo is more categorised by having genuine reads and conversations with people that actually progress.

Cause for trfel, he just posted walls of text and oonly interacted around them. For wave, he was too distant imo, just came in, posted something that made sense and left. Never really felt like he was trying to solve the game.

IMO.

Haha. Well played though, definitely.

ruXxar

Norway5669 Posts

June 23 2015 14:37 GMT

#2749

I'm starting to like you oats.
You're that extra spice that makes the game fun.
Your fake claim at the end was ballsy as fuck.

I hope we can play again soon