Very new players shouldn't try to learn complicated builds, but instead they should have fun. Here I will present the simplest builds that even new players can execute.
4 pool
Good against Protoss and Terran
Pool at 4 supply (without making a drone). You can cancel a drone if you already made one, you won't need that larva
4/9 scout exactly at 128 minerals (when you have 120 minerals and the drone is bringing 8 more)
zerglings after that
make an extractor at 9/9 and 100 minerals, make a pair of lings and cancel the extractor (called extractor trick)
10/9 overlord
This build is viable even at the highest level. It's a hard counter to proxy 8 barracks. Sometimes you'll need to play a macro game after this, especially if the Protoss knows to abandon the forge and pylon and cannon inside the base.
5 pool
Can be good against every race
5/9 pool
6/9 scout with the last drone you make
zerglings from now on 9/9 extractor and a pair of zerglings, cancel extractor (this is called extractor trick)
10/9 overlord
if the opponent is Zerg, make a sunken in his base, but don't make it too obvious or too early
More economy oriented build, the only hard counter to 12 hatch in base. If you do it against Protoss with the intention to macro behind it, you can make a drone instead of a 4th pair of lings.
With these two builds, I was able to get around 1800 MMR, mostly losing to Zerg 9 pools. Of course, a new player wouldn't be able to macro out of a failed 4 pool, so a new player would have a lower MMR doing this build. But a new player still gains a lot by doing these builds - learning how to scout, micro, multi-task, follow a build. I will follow up with a more interesting build for the second part of the guide.
Im not sure, is the point of ladder to win few games and never win again? Or is to understand your current level and slowly build your skill? Playing 4/5 pools is a quick way to get bored of a game..
This 9 pool speedling build is the most common ZvZ build. It can be used to deny scouting to do weird all-ins vs. Terran and Protoss. Even while playing I kept running into the issue that I'm not that good at catching scouting workers! By playing this build I learned how to properly fan out my zerglings and catch scouting workers. It's very important they don't see the timing of your expansion, or your strategy is basically toast.
Can be effective vs. Terran and Protoss. Starts off with the same basic 9 pool speedling build to deny scouting. This is key, do not rush into the Protoss's perfectly timed cannons with your first 6 zerglings. Kill the probe and then pretend you're doing a run-by to force probes to block holes.
9/9 pool
9/9 gas
8/9 overlord
scout with drone if it's a 4 player map
9/9 save larva and money for zerlings
100 gas speed take one larva off gas
100 gas lair
put larva back on gas quickly, you need more gas than the muta build since you're not getting a second hatchery
drone to 16/17
hydralisk den (doesn't have to complete at lair)
overlord
ventral sacs (overlord drop upgrade)
lurker aspect
5 hydralisks
make 4 lurkers, leave one hydralisk to defend against a corsair
continue droning, you are only trying to do economic damage with your slow drop
Both the 1 hatch lurker and 1 hatch muta builds are countered by cannons in the back, but the Protoss cannot know it's coming instead of a zergling or hydra all-in. If you can kill one nexus, you can transition to macro and fan zerglings out to find ninja expansions.
With these two builds I was able to achieve around 1900 MMR. The better success rate of these builds is due to the fact that I was playing a more standard ZvZ instead of instantly losing to 9 pool builds.
On May 10 2018 19:23 kogeT wrote: Im not sure, is the point of ladder to win few games and never win again? Or is to understand your current level and slowly build your skill? Playing 4/5 pools is a quick way to get bored of a game..
of course, it would be boring to just do 4/5 pools
so that's why I started another account to do other 1 hatch all-ins - I didn't do speedling all-in, that's a bit too boring
I will cover 2 hatch play later - but to get started with the game, doing 1 hatch builds is enough, I think.
YES ladder IS a terrible place for a new player. POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT IS A MUST If you have all ins in your bag of builds you WILL WIN a few of them. Nobody should expect a new player to start with macro intensive builds.
Learn the easy then the hard. Not try to learn the hard and give up like so many before you!
AND EVEN if you lose with your 4 pool against a Probe ALL IN for example then you STILL learn a valuable lesson. Which is EXECUTION is always king.
5 pool is a good build that builds a lot of elementary skills. Things like scouting mattering a lot, controlling units, doing a build order properly, and even macro/multitask on a minimal scale are all tested. It's also good to test a player's improvisational skill in how they followup.
I don't think this is very good advice. I do think players should have fun, and not grind their face against a cheese grater trying to immediately ladder. I don't think they should 4pool every game.
I think new players should watch a lot of streams and VODs, play a bunch of different stuff like 1v1, 2v2, BGH, fastest map possible, zero clutter, hunters, bloodbath, etc., and play all three races for awhile. Like, play a whole bunch of games as Protoss, then play a bunch of games as Zerg, then play a bunch of games as Terran.
Also, 3v5 comp stomps. Or, if they're feeling bold, 2v6. All of these things will provide variety while teaching new players various things about the game, such as:
- Your teammates are cruel when you're new - Your teammates hate you even if you're good - How to mute your teammates - Find rare "nice" teammates - Make friends on StarCraft - Max out one's army on Fastest quickly by making a lot of production buildings and controlling them - How to win on Bloodbath without ever leaving your base - That computers are bulli - That competitive games are taken way too seriously
but most importantly:
- How to play the game and find out what they like. Maybe they'll like custom games best. Maybe they'll go "Hey, I like playing Terran" but then change their mind and go "I think I like Zerg best". Stuff like that.
On May 10 2018 22:02 ninazerg wrote: I don't think this is very good advice. I do think players should have fun, and not grind their face against a cheese grater trying to immediately ladder. I don't think they should 4pool every game.
No, sometimes they should 5 pool.
But to be serious, I think you should learn one race at a time. There's too much to learn at once.
One race, one build, one map, one opponent. This is probably the ideal practice scenario.
People who ladder would probably have a little bit of practice from the campaign or against the computer first, obviously. But that's why I'm giving 9 pool speed variants that work against every race (including random).
I wouldn't recommend anyone to pick up SC now. The game is too frustrating to play, too hard to learn enough to be able to find equal opponents on ladder.
I love the time I've spent with it, but..... life is easier than SC.
Better pick up pickup and bang chicks instead of being pwned by nerds.
On May 11 2018 08:41 niteReloaded wrote: I wouldn't recommend anyone to pick up SC now. The game is too frustrating to play, too hard to learn enough to be able to find equal opponents on ladder.
I love the time I've spent with it, but..... life is easier than SC.
Better pick up pickup and bang chicks instead of being pwned by nerds.
Yea or maybe you can always bang chicks and own nerds.
On May 11 2018 08:41 niteReloaded wrote: I wouldn't recommend anyone to pick up SC now. The game is too frustrating to play, too hard to learn enough to be able to find equal opponents on ladder.
I love the time I've spent with it, but..... life is easier than SC.
Better pick up pickup and bang chicks instead of being pwned by nerds.
There's 24 hours in the day, what are you going to do with the other 22-23 hours?
I will test out more aggressive builds on ladder - if my rating is higher being aggressive, then I will transition to turtle Zerg style and learn how to macro defending all game until I get a high rating with that too, but that's like step 10
On May 11 2018 08:41 niteReloaded wrote: I wouldn't recommend anyone to pick up SC now. The game is too frustrating to play, too hard to learn enough to be able to find equal opponents on ladder.
I love the time I've spent with it, but..... life is easier than SC.
Better pick up pickup and bang chicks instead of being pwned by nerds.
Come on. The game isn't that frustrating. You learn a build. Practice it alone on a macro map. Eventually get it right. Practice it in multi, realise things are so much harder against a person. Lose lots of games. Watch lots of replays. Learn and get better.
Then, when you get those wins they feel amazing. And you earnt every bit of that.
In terms of finding equal opponents. Be social. Join a clan or make friends and get as much advice and practice as you can. You will learn and get better whoever you play against and it's a lot more fun than random people on ladder.
New players please don't be discouraged. I'm on day 18 of really trying to get into bw. I have improved and actually won a few games now. You just need to have the right mindset to take the losses and learn from your mistakes. I can't see myself giving up anytime soon
Honestly I think iopq is on the right track. The game is too fast and complex for a lower end (D+ and lower) player to be trying to learn macro intensive builds for laddering.
Granted, it all depends on how you find fun. I came from SC2 first and I didn't care for all-ins or cheese so I went straight to macro builds, but I also had to sit down and grind out 300 PvT's in a row to learn how to make gateway units halfway decently. 90% of people aren't going to do that.
I think one thing to take away is that people should not downplay the viability of all-ins or cheese. They're a great way to learn certain fundamentals and everyone should be able to do a cheese or an all-in on command. They can especially help someone learn when to go for a kill.
On May 11 2018 08:41 niteReloaded wrote: I wouldn't recommend anyone to pick up SC now. The game is too frustrating to play, too hard to learn enough to be able to find equal opponents on ladder.
I love the time I've spent with it, but..... life is easier than SC.
Better pick up pickup and bang chicks instead of being pwned by nerds.
Yea or maybe you can always bang chicks and own nerds.
One would have to play a lottt to own nerds if he/she picks up BW now, wouldn't you say?
I know what you're saying, but it comes down to whether the person has the passion for BW. If they do, by all means, play.
I think the fact that RTSs are being made less and less (and easier mechanically) shows that BW wasn't ideal when it comes to catering to gamers' needs.
Games are supposed to be fun. And winning is fun. And the fastest way to winning in BW is grinding out mechanics, which only a small percentage of people will actually find fun imo. Somehow now the MMA analogy comes to my mind.. it's fun to watch UFC fights, but I don't wanna go in the streets asking people for 1v1 as I didn't practice my kicks a thousand times this week, and my jiu jitsu sucks.
heh. I realize I don't have a concise point.. maybe I should keep my opinion to myself if it's in a place like this where SC lovers gather.
Just do whatever you find fun. I think ladder is not the best way to start, as opposed to custom games or even 2v2 (3v3, 4v4 FFA, w/e floats your boat) Finding friends to play with is good when you begin because it ll motivate you to keep playing.
But if you do want to ladder right off the bat, then this thread is a good summary of some of the strategies you can do. Learn the maps first by playing vs the computer on each of them once at least (so you know where the bases are). May be 5 pool the computer too and see how it goes.
As long as you re having fun everything is fine, but ladder is a competitive place (duh!) so may be not the best to meet ppl.
On May 12 2018 01:00 ruypture wrote: Honestly I think iopq is on the right track. The game is too fast and complex for a lower end (D+ and lower) player to be trying to learn macro intensive builds for laddering.
Granted, it all depends on how you find fun. I came from SC2 first and I didn't care for all-ins or cheese so I went straight to macro builds, but I also had to sit down and grind out 300 PvT's in a row to learn how to make gateway units halfway decently. 90% of people aren't going to do that.
I think one thing to take away is that people should not downplay the viability of all-ins or cheese. They're a great way to learn certain fundamentals and everyone should be able to do a cheese or an all-in on command. They can especially help someone learn when to go for a kill.
You learn through practice, and if you don't practice something, you can't learn it.
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