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Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative

Forum Index > General Forum
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1 2 Next All
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
June 30 2025 12:22 GMT
#1
I asume most here on TL community loves video games in some way or another. Well, if you are from the EU you can help a campaign that, in its own words:

"Stop Killing Games" is a consumer movement started to challenge the legality of publishers destroying video games they have sold to customers. An increasing number of video games are sold effectively as goods - with no stated expiration date - but designed to be completely unplayable as soon as support from the publisher ends. This practice is a form of planned obsolescence and is not only detrimental to customers, but makes preservation effectively impossible. Furthermore, the legality of this practice is largely untested in many countries.

- I From the campaign site: https://www.stopkillinggames.com/

If you are a EU citizen, you can help the campaign, Right now it needs around 333.202 signatures more, but the Deadline is already 31 july. After that it is too late.

Link to the European Citizens' Initiative: eci.ec.europa.eu

Ross Scott from Accursed farms who started the campaign (yes, the same guy who made Freemans Mind and Civil Protection) has made several video explaining it way better than me.



Is there other TL users who has been following this campaign? Obiviously i am all for it, but maybe other disagree with my position, which is fine (not that i would understand it).
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6934 Posts
June 30 2025 12:34 GMT
#2
I've heard of that one. I also heard of that one streamer guy that basically stopped the whole movement while having absolutely no idea what it was about and not understanding it. But he apparently had lots of followers. Sort of the Trump of gaming lol
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
June 30 2025 12:41 GMT
#3
On June 30 2025 21:34 Harris1st wrote:
I've heard of that one. I also heard of that one streamer guy that basically stopped the whole movement while having absolutely no idea what it was about and not understanding it. But he apparently had lots of followers. Sort of the Trump of gaming lol


Yeah, PirateSoftware. Never head of him until a week ago. Not my type.

But ironically the drama that happened has help the campaign get alot of exposure.

What matters is that people who can sign it sees it and hopefully do it. Its super easy.
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Uldridge
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium4811 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-06-30 13:54:50
June 30 2025 13:54 GMT
#4
Gaming companies will no longer call it a sale, but a service and that'll be that.
Taxes are for Terrans
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25530 Posts
June 30 2025 14:42 GMT
#5
I’d be intrigued to see what happens if this actually goes to legal adjudication.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2566 Posts
July 01 2025 02:20 GMT
#6
At a glance, two forks come to mind if this came to pass :

One, if publishers in europe have a ban on games-as-a-service being allowed to close, I see that resulting in damage to EU-based game publishers and/or simple workarounds that don't positively impact the consumer, I.E. multiplayer online games having shitty, tacked on 'offline modes', or an exodus of EU publishers to other shores.

Two, if the ban is of SALES of games-as-a-service in EU, then EU just sees fewer games. Certainly not a net loss, because big companies aren't going to be willing to just not sell to all of europe, but smaller companies may not be as able to accomodate new restrictions.

Basically, at a glance I don't know if I'd support this because I'm extremely pessimistic that it'd actually be a net positive for consumers. If I were in the EU, I'd read more and better educate myself.
Bacillus
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland1949 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-07-01 06:52:22
July 01 2025 05:00 GMT
#7
I haven't really dug into to have a proper say, but it definitely feels like a thing where people have good intentions and eventually end up driving a self-righteous truck through a pretty complex issue that would actually require careful thought.

One thing that confuses me a bit is that there's a lot of subtext people are discussing, but meanwhile the petition itself seems very barebones. Are the EU lawmakers going to sit down and watch the Youtube discussions & read reddit threads to figure out what was the actual intention of the petition?

I guess one of my main worries is that added regulation forces games into boxes that comply with the rules with certain patterns and for example make it even harder to roll out your own tech and solutions because you risk running some nasty surprises later on.

If this just stops some triple A single player game from having a expiration date, then it's all good in my books. However, the games and game devs are a diverse bunch and I feel someone somewhere is going to end up getting caught in the crossfire.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6934 Posts
July 01 2025 06:55 GMT
#8
Maybe just add a minimum amount of time a game must under all circumstances be playable? Forever is a really long time and supporting a game as a dev that is 20 years old and has 3 active players is never a net positive. But they could open their code for say user owner dedicated servers or something along those lines? Dunno how that technical could work.

I for one still love playing Heroes of the Storm, a game that is 11 years old and that Blizzard officially abandoned 3 years ago. It is still fully playable, there is even bug support. I would be hella mad and sad if that weren't the case
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10741 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-07-01 08:14:46
July 01 2025 08:13 GMT
#9
On July 01 2025 15:55 Harris1st wrote:
Maybe just add a minimum amount of time a game must under all circumstances be playable? Forever is a really long time and supporting a game as a dev that is 20 years old and has 3 active players is never a net positive. But they could open their code for say user owner dedicated servers or something along those lines? Dunno how that technical could work.


What issue exactly?

This is not about "support", it's about keeping it possible to run the games, no one is making the publisher do it.

As an example: Blizzard shuts down Classic-WoW ---> "Private" Servers are now allowed.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6934 Posts
July 01 2025 08:39 GMT
#10
On July 01 2025 17:13 Velr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2025 15:55 Harris1st wrote:
Maybe just add a minimum amount of time a game must under all circumstances be playable? Forever is a really long time and supporting a game as a dev that is 20 years old and has 3 active players is never a net positive. But they could open their code for say user owner dedicated servers or something along those lines? Dunno how that technical could work.


What issue exactly?

This is not about "support", it's about keeping it possible to run the games, no one is making the publisher do it.

As an example: Blizzard shuts down Classic-WoW ---> "Private" Servers are now allowed.


I don't understand you. What is it exactly you want to argue about?
I meant support as in "run servers" and then explained how than can be shifted to the users which is basically what you said.

Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10741 Posts
July 01 2025 09:54 GMT
#11
Sorry, quoted you by mistake.



In general:
People tend to make this petition sound like it's about way more than it actually is and therefore worry about things that don't even apply but are mildly connected (like games as a service and so on).
Southlight
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
United States11767 Posts
July 01 2025 18:43 GMT
#12
On July 01 2025 14:00 Bacillus wrote:Are the EU lawmakers going to sit down and watch the Youtube discussions & read reddit threads to figure out what was the actual intention of the petition?


I don't know how they'd gather information but they would be legally required to do their due diligence and debate the topic. At the very least it becomes a recognized topic of discussion with added awareness and scrutiny - even if no major change is immediately made, awareness and discussion is usually a big step.
oraoraoraoraoraoraoraora
Bacillus
Profile Joined August 2010
Finland1949 Posts
July 01 2025 20:06 GMT
#13
On July 02 2025 03:43 Southlight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2025 14:00 Bacillus wrote:Are the EU lawmakers going to sit down and watch the Youtube discussions & read reddit threads to figure out what was the actual intention of the petition?


I don't know how they'd gather information but they would be legally required to do their due diligence and debate the topic. At the very least it becomes a recognized topic of discussion with added awareness and scrutiny - even if no major change is immediately made, awareness and discussion is usually a big step.

Yeah, I think that's probably the good bit.

I took some time to go through the actual official petition and it seems probably alright to me. I think it gets much more muddy once you listen to campaigner's ideas about the practical solutions. My first instinct would be to go with more explicit declaration of parts that are independent of the publisher/developer. Maybe there's a good reason to not go there, but it would be much less restrictive than some ideas that I hear being thrown around.
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2631 Posts
July 02 2025 12:58 GMT
#14
We do it for car parts which are physical items.
You can buy parts for old cars because once the manufacturer closes down their production line 3rd party producers are allowed to sell parts. It works well.

Could easily have the same thing here. You stop supporting your online game other actors can now service it, either paid or for free.
waaaaaaaaaaaooooow - Felicia, SPF2:T
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10305 Posts
July 02 2025 15:07 GMT
#15
What SKG boils down to is basically:

-Availability of offline modes in single-player games;

-Legal protection against sudden server shutdowns that render purchased games inaccessible;

-Permission to create private servers if the developer no longer supports the game;

-Recognition of digital ownership—the idea that purchasing a game should provide permanent access, not a temporary license

As of this post, the petition only needs 170.331 more signatures.

Remember, this is not legist
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6934 Posts
July 07 2025 07:11 GMT
#16
1,2 million of 1 million required. I don't expect something in the next 5 years though. EU law is incredible slow.
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11865 Posts
July 07 2025 20:07 GMT
#17
On July 07 2025 16:11 Harris1st wrote:
1,2 million of 1 million required. I don't expect something in the next 5 years though. EU law is incredible slow.


It will achieve one thing short term. Curbing worse behavior from the largest companies. Since they know this is now on the radar of legislation and if they want it killed they need to run a solid campaign against it.

I think one way they could semi kill it would be by using books and movies as examples. With VERY long protections afforded to the creators. Sure, all of the above is fine. Just wait for the copyright to expire.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6934 Posts
July 08 2025 07:14 GMT
#18
On July 08 2025 05:07 Yurie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2025 16:11 Harris1st wrote:
1,2 million of 1 million required. I don't expect something in the next 5 years though. EU law is incredible slow.


It will achieve one thing short term. Curbing worse behavior from the largest companies. Since they know this is now on the radar of legislation and if they want it killed they need to run a solid campaign against it.

I think one way they could semi kill it would be by using books and movies as examples. With VERY long protections afforded to the creators. Sure, all of the above is fine. Just wait for the copyright to expire.


Wdym? Books and movies?

It also could go incredible wrong as in we are not buying games anymore, we are officially leasing games. Duration 8-10 years. After that you either make a new lease or you can't play. Though will probably get an even bigger outcry from the community
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
11865 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-07-08 15:11:16
July 08 2025 15:06 GMT
#19
On July 08 2025 16:14 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2025 05:07 Yurie wrote:
On July 07 2025 16:11 Harris1st wrote:
1,2 million of 1 million required. I don't expect something in the next 5 years though. EU law is incredible slow.


It will achieve one thing short term. Curbing worse behavior from the largest companies. Since they know this is now on the radar of legislation and if they want it killed they need to run a solid campaign against it.

I think one way they could semi kill it would be by using books and movies as examples. With VERY long protections afforded to the creators. Sure, all of the above is fine. Just wait for the copyright to expire.


Wdym? Books and movies?

It also could go incredible wrong as in we are not buying games anymore, we are officially leasing games. Duration 8-10 years. After that you either make a new lease or you can't play. Though will probably get an even bigger outcry from the community

after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.


https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html

-----

I agree that them changing from buying to leasing is the most likely outcome. That at least makes GOG have an advantage where they can keep the same wording while nobody else can.
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia717 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-07-10 09:17:07
July 10 2025 09:16 GMT
#20
On July 08 2025 16:14 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 08 2025 05:07 Yurie wrote:
On July 07 2025 16:11 Harris1st wrote:
1,2 million of 1 million required. I don't expect something in the next 5 years though. EU law is incredible slow.


It will achieve one thing short term. Curbing worse behavior from the largest companies. Since they know this is now on the radar of legislation and if they want it killed they need to run a solid campaign against it.

I think one way they could semi kill it would be by using books and movies as examples. With VERY long protections afforded to the creators. Sure, all of the above is fine. Just wait for the copyright to expire.


Wdym? Books and movies?

It also could go incredible wrong as in we are not buying games anymore, we are officially leasing games. Duration 8-10 years. After that you either make a new lease or you can't play. Though will probably get an even bigger outcry from the community


Some companies might try and do that, and risk losing one of the biggest markets in the world.

This is like people saying that Apple will stop selling iPhones in EU if they are forced to change the charger to USB-C, something that a lot of people said EU won't be able to do and look at me now, having to bring one cable only everywhere.

Companies are not stupid, maybe US companies like EA or Ubisoft and some Japan/Korea based ones like Nintendo or Krafton might try to zag in this way but companies like CD Projekt Red and others who understand that gamers as an audience appreciates a honest company willing to work with them won't and we'll keep buying their games.
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
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