On June 15 2015 07:04 MoosyDoosy wrote: ##vote Rels
Good job n00bKing you did well.
On June 15 2015 07:09 scott31337 wrote: What an awesome post, n00b. I haven't felt good about Sulf or Rels, and Rels didn't reply to anything, just went to sleep.
##Vote Rels
Hahaha that is so good (= I'm so happy to read these two posts. I think the two posters are scum. Here is why.
All the suspicions noobkind put on me start with the premise that Sulfu is town. He himself say to lynch Sulfu first, then IF Sulfu is mafia, to lynch ruxxar or me day 3. He also says than ruxxar would be a better lynch than me day 3. Don't believe me ?
On June 15 2015 06:59 n00bKing wrote: Sulfurus would be my top lynch on Day 2. If he flips Red, is it better to go after ruXxar or Rels next? That's tough. The ties between Sulfurus and ruXxar are definitely stronger than the ties between Sulfurus and Rels. But Rels is being read by more people as being generally scummy right now, so he might be the easier lynch, even if ruXxar could be the more logical lynch.
[...]
If Sulfurus flips Green, then it's back to the drawing board, to some extent. Hopefully that would mean a batsnacks scum team, and he's paired with either Moosy or damdred. But that case is tougher to make than Sulfurus/ruXxar/Rels.
So. Just after this post, noobking dies and here is what happens:
1 - moosy and scott both expressed good feelings about noobking's post. 2 - noobking's post say to lynch Sulfu day 2, and if he flips mafia, to lynch ruxxar and me, ruxxar being the stronger lynch 3 - moosy and scott vote me instead.
You know what is even funnier ? Let me quote this moosy post that happens just after his vote to me. Please read it carefully.
On June 15 2015 07:05 MoosyDoosy wrote: Alright guys, Rels first then Sulfurus. After that, we re-look over n00bKing's post then decide on the next person. I'm inclined to trust him though. That analysis was so good.
That "so good analysis" that moosy is talking about says to lynch Sulfu first, and that I'm not mafia unless Sulfu is too. But moosy wants to lynch me first. Then he wants to lynch Sulfu. And finally ruxxar.
I can see a scum agenda here. How ? Let's consider this timeline: 1 - we lynch Sulfu, he flips green 2 - if we follow noobking post, we're not lynching me nor ruxxar anymore. Conclusion: we only mislynched once.
moosy seems to be pushing for a better timeline for mafia: 1 - we lynch me, I flip green 2 - too bad! Let's follow noobking post again ... mm that's true he asked for sulfu's lynch first. 3 - we lynch sulfu, I flip green Conclusion: two mislynches
Yeh, again, that wasn't my intention. The reason why I voted to lynch you first was because there were already arguments from me, Trfel, batsnacks, and now n00bKing. Comparatively, no one really made any cases against Sulfurus which is why I felt it would be safer to be lynching you.
Alright I can accept this explanation. I responded all the cases you mentioned, did that change your read on me ?
The thing about linking your cases to noobking's is still a little, little bit scummy. Obviously it's weak so nobody will lynch you for only this.
If anything, linking my cases to n00bKing's is the opposite of scummy considering that he turned out to be VT as well. Since it seems that no one exactly wants to immediately chop off my head, I'll go back and re-read over everything carefully.
Now that you just admitted that your case and noobking's were different, I find it more opportunistic than good. That's why I called it a small scum hint.
Where did I say mine and n00bKing's cases were different? I was just saying that if you're linking mine and n00bKing's cases together, it would only show that I'm not scum because n00bKing turned out to be VT.
I'm not linking your case to noobking's. You did it yourself.
On June 16 2015 02:22 MoosyDoosy wrote: [...] I also admit, I was a bit excited over the fact that we caught Mafia which is why I linked mine, n00bKing's, and batsnack's arguments to Kickstart, since it seemed that he was wondering what had gone down over the course of the thread. And if anything else, arguments against a certain Mafia is the most important part of the game.
Oh that post. In there, by "linked", I literally meant "linked". As in provide what he should look at. Not the "connect" together definition of "link".
On June 16 2015 02:46 batsnacks wrote: It's not important I know that you're trying to say that there's more stated evidence for Rels and it makes him a better lynch. Safer is just a weird way to put it.
In what way?
I don't consider this relevant because I feel like I understand what you were trying to say anyway but... It could also be "safer" because since there is more evidence for Rels, there will be less suspicion your way if he flips town. Compared to if you lynched hypothetical town sulfurus for (relatively) less evidence.
Lol, which is not what I was trying to say, say no.
Sometimes human beings accidentally reveal their intentions with their word choices. But it seriously doesn't matter you could have afked all day today and still not been the lynch.
I honestly still don't see how you would read that from "safe". In a vacuum, who would you rather lynch? Someone with a bunch of cases against him, or someone with speculation and almost no cases? Thus, it's safer to assume that the one with a bunch of cases is the one to lynch.
Actually its an interesting word choice. But it probably isn't important in the long run.
Basically what you want moose is mafia to follow 100% the case and only rely on logic when their is much more to look at.
word usage is important gut feelings just general human brilliance/stupidity/luck. Anyway its interesting but its not alignment indicative at this moment.
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
2. He refers himself as a newbie several times. Not as much as I thought day 1, but there is still a number of times he does it. In addition, he either dumbtells a few times and didn't read the OP carefully. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: [...] I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 13 2015 02:08 scott31337 wrote: Geript has four posts and very little content. I know he's good as mafia - but on the scum side of null for now.
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
Is this a dumbtell and didn't read the OP? Did he read boxerfred's last game and took all his ideas (Ie I'll act like I'm so newb everybody will just read me over for a few days)
On June 13 2015 00:58 MoosyDoosy wrote: What I want to do is find out why geript stopped posting after WaveofShadow had a scumread on him.
@batsnacks, I mean, I'm pretty sure I made it clear I was a town but sure, go ahead and waste your vote.
I sure am not seeing this "I made it clear". "Go ahead and waste your vote" is a very interesting way to word a vote on you if you are town.
On June 12 2015 22:54 batsnacks wrote: I think I'm going to sheep geript now he was making sense about moose.
##unvote ##vote moosygoosy
On June 12 2015 10:27 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
people should be talking about this.
Making sense? He quoted one post and said talk about this.
I like Oat's post about "N00bking" looking townie since didn't stop his advice posting even when people stopped him - that makes a lot of sense.
Bats and Geript bussing Moose? looks like the most logical conclusion I see at this time.
## Batsnacks / Geript / MoosyDoosy but that would be too ez.
But not liking Batsnacks.
Anyone have any questions or want to point out things I may have missed?
Ok, let's get this straight. As I said multiple times before, I'm new to TL and online Mafia. Either way, I'll address your points.
1. You say geript is a good Mafia from previous games and he's too obvious here leading to the conclusion he's not Mafia. If that's the case, how would you expect me to know that? I've never played TL Mafia before and never played with geript so I wouldn't know. 2. All I know about boxerfred is from his post here where he said he couldn't play and from his lack of posts. I don't even know what games he was previously in. The only person I know is Trfel who goes on Bnet forums from time to time which is where I commonly post. 3. I don't see how "Go ahead and waste your vote" is weird. I'm clearly a town so I don't see why batsnacks would vote for me. 4. I already explained why I worded my first post in my first Mafia game in the way I did. I've obviously seen why that's a bad thing to do (Mafia will find a way to point it out and lynch me) so I'm obviously not going to do that in the future.
Is there anything else?
1. I was not saying either way - but Geript is a good mafia player.Is he AFK or uninterested or mafia or both? That's what we're trying to figure out. If you have free time and would like, the TL Mafia Database has a listing of peoples games here and links.
2. I'll rephrase - Boxerfred posted a lot of newbie/dumb questions and skated on this for a few days until people got suspicious of him. It was a ruse. You have read the whole OP (first post) now right? You know what roles CAN be in the game?
3. You just said it again. "I'm clearly a town" - if you say it enough I'll start to believe it? People who keep saying lines like this irk me. "The Most Basic Form of Mind Control is Repetition"
4. Fair enough point, thank you.
scott, bottom line is that most of your reasoning is based on the belief that I'll know how others play or how to play. And what I keep saying is that I'm new to online Mafia and don't know how to play or how others play.
There are 3 Mafia and 2 town roles. I believe that reducing kill power from 2 to 1 is the single most important factor in us winning the game. This would buy us so much time that we should have overwhelming odds of winning. The chance of targeting Carl is very low.
I'm ok with taking the odds of a power role checking Carl if it means we increase our chances of killing mafia.
Does knowing that there is only 1 mafia attack each Night change your position?
Also, where are you getting that there are "2 town roles?" I see absolutely nothing that would indicate there are 8 VTs and 2 non-Vanilla Town roles, if that is what you are saying.
Sorry for this newbie question which I should have asked earlier but which slipped my mind because I had to do something else. What's a Carl?
3. WIFOM point: 3 hours before noobking was killed, moosy did two posts to say noobking was town. Could be he knew that noobking was going to be confirmed town, and wanted the towncred of listing as town before he died. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:47 MoosyDoosy wrote: Nah, I think n00bKing's a townie. He's been decent at pressuring people although he's pretty bossy and gives way too much advice. Not to mention his posts are super wordy. Either way, I still think Rels/Sulfurus deserve another look. When Rels comes back, we should ask him to defend himself against Trfel's points. We should be able to get a read on the defense.
On June 15 2015 04:22 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, did a reading of n00bKing and I don't think he's Mafia.
Personality read: Likes to be in control, dislikes change, rather bossy. As can be evidenced in his posts lamenting changes in people's opinion, how he gives so much advice, and how he always tries and tell people what to do. I think his personality is what affects so much of his posting which is why most of it is convoluted and he feels the need to pursue even the trivial. Like really? Arguing with batsnacks over "advice"?
Town read: Very consistent. At the start, yes he floods the thread with advice, but when he starts pressuring people, he remains consistent. It seems that he suspected batsnacks, me, and Plants at the start for our behavior and strange post(s). As the game continues and even to this very point, he has been pressuring me and batsnacks and has remained consistent in doing so.
In fact, this may be his downfall more than most. While it seems that he agrees that Rels/Sulf exhibit suspicious behavior, he still seems intent on finding ways to bring me and batsnacks down per how he read us at the very start of the thread. As for other people's posts, he seems content to question a couple but mostly agree or add on to their posts.
Conclusion: n00bking's filter just shows consistency in what he's been doing. He gets caught in the trivial, he's bossy, and he gave a bit too much advice at the start, but he is definitely a townie that's trying to catch the Mafia.
4. This post where I make the theory that moosy is using noobking's legacy to push his own case, even though it's not the same. 5. He was very wishy washy day 1, and argumented it was his style. Then night 1 and day 2 he changed pretty hardly and is now pushing ruxxar hard for my lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 09:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: @Rels, any comments on my posts? Still confused why you don't think I'm townie.
OK sorry in advance, but in my mind it's actually pretty good where you're at. I was so sure you were mafia with your first post that me imagining you at null read is a pretty good deal. When I made this post with the two points I was thinking I was going to destroy you. I think I was clouded by my first impression of you.
You won't ever be a town lean in my mind until you either make a case on someone and defend it, or sheep a case on someone and explain why. Not taking stances = I can't judge you 100%.
Unfortunately I'm trying to be careful with my vote so it looks like that won't happen anytime soon. -.- At least I'm glad to see you're finally starting to realize I'm a townie.
On June 15 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Maybe me being suspicious of all of them early day 1 will buy me some town cred???? I need some after being afk so long.
Don't worry. It looks like Rels -> Sulfurus right now. If both are right, I'm pretty sure we'll have to vote to kill ruXxar and we always have cop to check if necessary.
Reasons that he could be town: 1. He posts questions to people, but contrary to scott, he follows up with analysis of the answer. He shows a willingness to solve the game, or at least he's faking that willingness. 2. Didn't solely sheep the cases on me, but made his own. OK, the points are not clear, but he worked on it. He even addressed a point nobody else did: the fact that I wasn't that much engaged on a geript's lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 05:37 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, I started reading filters and I especially looked at Rels/Sulfurus as people have been implying. I REALLY think they're both Mafia.
Rels first comes into the thread and directs all attention to the passive posts from both me and Fake)Plants. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
Then he tries to switch the case onto me-geript-batsnacks which is the next best scapegoat from a newbie who only posted once and never again. Not only that, but notice how he attempts to bring this under the light while trying to cover for Sulfurus who is beginning to become suspected.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
I have strong town reads on wos and KS. I have town reads on ruxxar, oats and trfel. I really want to like Sulfu as he had the same attitude of "not posting a lot but ask question" last game, and he was town. But I think he has less than 5 posts atm, that's really not a lot.
Everybody I have not talk about I have either no read or mafia lean. It's especially hard on the moosy - geript - bats situation. I don't like moosy for : - his first post - his multiple times stating he is a newbie
But geript's reasoning for voting him is super bad. And batsnacks' one is so weird, involving double bus at one point.
Well. Here is my brain atm.
Then he tries to make a case on me once people tell him me-geript-batsnacks was never a thing.
On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post:
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post.
Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about:
On June 12 2015 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yo, also keep in mind a newbie might be Mafia which is why he's not jumping on my post. Seems like something Mafia should do from reading the guide.
On June 13 2015 03:34 geript wrote: Nah. It'd be pretty odd if there wasn't at least 1 veteran on the mafia team.
I'm re-reading posts right now to make a list, but the veteran(s) had to be inactive at the start to not point it out. On the other hand, any newbie might be the Mafia.
After this, he leaves the thread for a bit and posts a list of people he suspects in order to pretend to be active. Then WaveofShadow, Oats, and me begin to defend batsnacks whereupon a case begins to form around geript and Sulfurus. Rels decides upon lynching geript and not Sulfurus. Note that before this he is also defending Sulfurus by saying he played the same way in "the previous game". However, batsnacks provided several examples where Sulfurus was providing better critical analysis whereupon Rels is forced to remain quiet.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
##Vote geript
As Trfel already pointed out, Rels also does not really seem to support this vote as he already knows who Mafia REALLY is.
On June 13 2015 19:22 Rels wrote: Geript could you expand on two things when you come back ?
1
On June 13 2015 03:08 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
This post is pretty bad.
On June 12 2015 10:30 Kickstart wrote: Because I've had the urge to troll you since I came back to playing mafia Oats. I can't help myself. Don't worry though the 2 scums atm are ruxxar and sulfurus so you are not in my tunnel atm.
[...] Oooh Damdred replaced in. That guy's town 100%. ezpz.
On June 13 2015 06:41 geript wrote: Nah. Damdred is 100% town. He's gotten pretty easy to read.
It's pretty cool that you can read damdred (= but this game he's impossible for to read atm due to lack of posts. Were you saying that if he's town you're going to know it for sure later ? And do you read damdred town right now ?
2
On June 13 2015 06:56 geript wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 geript wrote: Wave not making association cases would be far more concerning. Not a fan of trfel
Why don't you like Trfel?
Not really something something I can put my finger on. Feels I guess. Maybe my impression of his meta is off from his actual meta since I don't think I've played a game with him for a bit. [...]
I would be super interested if you took the time to reread Trfel's past game with you and expand on that. If you don't have the time to do that, could you at least try to explain this more ?
And from this point, Rels disappears, never addresses Trfel's point and he never really answered any other questions as well. I'm curious to see his response when he comes back although I believe a strong case can be made against both Rels and Sulfurus as a team of Mafia.
3. WOS, one of my town hard read, has a hard read on moosy. Quoted in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Moosydoosy For all of the reasons I've stated previously. Moosy's play has just been extremely consistent with a very new player overall. Yes it is POSSIBLE scum can replicate this, but not without messing up somewhere down the line and certainly not with this level of activity. (The caveat here which might have to be looked into eventually that I find kind of interesting is this 'bait' he pulled off recently. Is a Moosy who is so nooby as to not realize geript flipped town for example, able to pull off a play like that? Food for thought, but not tomorrow.)
At the end of the day, I find that his wishy washiness disappeared a little bit too fast when he started pushing me hard. So I'm not definite he's scum, but if I was at LYLO with him and anyone other than Kickstart and scott, I would lynch him. Conclusion: Mafia lean
On June 16 2015 00:46 ruXxar wrote: Moosy and kick then both HARD agree that I have to bus rels and sulfur as the only chance to clear my name.
Wait.... what???
The amount of content that Rels put out is just insane.... and while I don't like all of his points, he does raise some good points (particularly some of the ones against scott31337). I don't really like his response to batsnacks' case, but if he is scum, it's really impressive that he would go through all that work when he seemed to be completely doomed.
On June 16 2015 00:46 ruXxar wrote: Moosy and kick then both HARD agree that I have to bus rels and sulfur as the only chance to clear my name.
Wait.... what???
The amount of content that Rels put out is just insane.... and while I don't like all of his points, he does raise some good points (particularly some of the ones against scott31337). I don't really like his response to batsnacks' case, but if he is scum, it's really impressive that he would go through all that work when he seemed to be completely doomed.
##unvote
You should read that thing I said about ruxxar being mafia because he voted me for 99% of d1 only to sheep me hard at the last second on a town wagon for reasons that he considers bad and a mistake. Then you should vote ruxxar because he's probably the best lynch.
On June 16 2015 00:46 ruXxar wrote: Moosy and kick then both HARD agree that I have to bus rels and sulfur as the only chance to clear my name.
Wait.... what???
The amount of content that Rels put out is just insane.... and while I don't like all of his points, he does raise some good points (particularly some of the ones against scott31337). I don't really like his response to batsnacks' case, but if he is scum, it's really impressive that he would go through all that work when he seemed to be completely doomed.
##unvote
You should read that thing I said about ruxxar being mafia because he voted me for 99% of d1 only to sheep me hard at the last second on a town wagon for reasons that he considers bad and a mistake. Then you should vote ruxxar because he's probably the best lynch.
I need to look into that some more.
And I'm also thinking about lynching Kickstart or scott31337. But I have some work to do now, so I can't filter dive for at least another hour or two.
And I don't really like Rels' case on MoosyDoosy at all. I'm reasonably confident that MoosyDoosy is town, and Rels' reasons weren't terribly compelling.
On June 16 2015 03:28 Rels wrote: MoosyDoosy I don't really know about him. Will list for what reasons I find him scummy, and what reasons he could be town too.
Reasons for me suspecting him: 1. His first post. It's bad, long and weird. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
2. He refers himself as a newbie several times. Not as much as I thought day 1, but there is still a number of times he does it. In addition, he either dumbtells a few times and didn't read the OP carefully. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: [...] I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 13 2015 02:08 scott31337 wrote: Geript has four posts and very little content. I know he's good as mafia - but on the scum side of null for now.
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
Is this a dumbtell and didn't read the OP? Did he read boxerfred's last game and took all his ideas (Ie I'll act like I'm so newb everybody will just read me over for a few days)
On June 13 2015 00:58 MoosyDoosy wrote: What I want to do is find out why geript stopped posting after WaveofShadow had a scumread on him.
@batsnacks, I mean, I'm pretty sure I made it clear I was a town but sure, go ahead and waste your vote.
I sure am not seeing this "I made it clear". "Go ahead and waste your vote" is a very interesting way to word a vote on you if you are town.
On June 12 2015 22:54 batsnacks wrote: I think I'm going to sheep geript now he was making sense about moose.
##unvote ##vote moosygoosy
On June 12 2015 10:27 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
people should be talking about this.
Making sense? He quoted one post and said talk about this.
I like Oat's post about "N00bking" looking townie since didn't stop his advice posting even when people stopped him - that makes a lot of sense.
Bats and Geript bussing Moose? looks like the most logical conclusion I see at this time.
## Batsnacks / Geript / MoosyDoosy but that would be too ez.
But not liking Batsnacks.
Anyone have any questions or want to point out things I may have missed?
Ok, let's get this straight. As I said multiple times before, I'm new to TL and online Mafia. Either way, I'll address your points.
1. You say geript is a good Mafia from previous games and he's too obvious here leading to the conclusion he's not Mafia. If that's the case, how would you expect me to know that? I've never played TL Mafia before and never played with geript so I wouldn't know. 2. All I know about boxerfred is from his post here where he said he couldn't play and from his lack of posts. I don't even know what games he was previously in. The only person I know is Trfel who goes on Bnet forums from time to time which is where I commonly post. 3. I don't see how "Go ahead and waste your vote" is weird. I'm clearly a town so I don't see why batsnacks would vote for me. 4. I already explained why I worded my first post in my first Mafia game in the way I did. I've obviously seen why that's a bad thing to do (Mafia will find a way to point it out and lynch me) so I'm obviously not going to do that in the future.
Is there anything else?
1. I was not saying either way - but Geript is a good mafia player.Is he AFK or uninterested or mafia or both? That's what we're trying to figure out. If you have free time and would like, the TL Mafia Database has a listing of peoples games here and links.
2. I'll rephrase - Boxerfred posted a lot of newbie/dumb questions and skated on this for a few days until people got suspicious of him. It was a ruse. You have read the whole OP (first post) now right? You know what roles CAN be in the game?
3. You just said it again. "I'm clearly a town" - if you say it enough I'll start to believe it? People who keep saying lines like this irk me. "The Most Basic Form of Mind Control is Repetition"
4. Fair enough point, thank you.
scott, bottom line is that most of your reasoning is based on the belief that I'll know how others play or how to play. And what I keep saying is that I'm new to online Mafia and don't know how to play or how others play.
There are 3 Mafia and 2 town roles. I believe that reducing kill power from 2 to 1 is the single most important factor in us winning the game. This would buy us so much time that we should have overwhelming odds of winning. The chance of targeting Carl is very low.
I'm ok with taking the odds of a power role checking Carl if it means we increase our chances of killing mafia.
Does knowing that there is only 1 mafia attack each Night change your position?
Also, where are you getting that there are "2 town roles?" I see absolutely nothing that would indicate there are 8 VTs and 2 non-Vanilla Town roles, if that is what you are saying.
Sorry for this newbie question which I should have asked earlier but which slipped my mind because I had to do something else. What's a Carl?
3. WIFOM point: 3 hours before noobking was killed, moosy did two posts to say noobking was town. Could be he knew that noobking was going to be confirmed town, and wanted the towncred of listing as town before he died. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:47 MoosyDoosy wrote: Nah, I think n00bKing's a townie. He's been decent at pressuring people although he's pretty bossy and gives way too much advice. Not to mention his posts are super wordy. Either way, I still think Rels/Sulfurus deserve another look. When Rels comes back, we should ask him to defend himself against Trfel's points. We should be able to get a read on the defense.
On June 15 2015 04:22 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, did a reading of n00bKing and I don't think he's Mafia.
Personality read: Likes to be in control, dislikes change, rather bossy. As can be evidenced in his posts lamenting changes in people's opinion, how he gives so much advice, and how he always tries and tell people what to do. I think his personality is what affects so much of his posting which is why most of it is convoluted and he feels the need to pursue even the trivial. Like really? Arguing with batsnacks over "advice"?
Town read: Very consistent. At the start, yes he floods the thread with advice, but when he starts pressuring people, he remains consistent. It seems that he suspected batsnacks, me, and Plants at the start for our behavior and strange post(s). As the game continues and even to this very point, he has been pressuring me and batsnacks and has remained consistent in doing so.
In fact, this may be his downfall more than most. While it seems that he agrees that Rels/Sulf exhibit suspicious behavior, he still seems intent on finding ways to bring me and batsnacks down per how he read us at the very start of the thread. As for other people's posts, he seems content to question a couple but mostly agree or add on to their posts.
Conclusion: n00bking's filter just shows consistency in what he's been doing. He gets caught in the trivial, he's bossy, and he gave a bit too much advice at the start, but he is definitely a townie that's trying to catch the Mafia.
4. This post where I make the theory that moosy is using noobking's legacy to push his own case, even though it's not the same. 5. He was very wishy washy day 1, and argumented it was his style. Then night 1 and day 2 he changed pretty hardly and is now pushing ruxxar hard for my lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 09:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: @Rels, any comments on my posts? Still confused why you don't think I'm townie.
OK sorry in advance, but in my mind it's actually pretty good where you're at. I was so sure you were mafia with your first post that me imagining you at null read is a pretty good deal. When I made this post with the two points I was thinking I was going to destroy you. I think I was clouded by my first impression of you.
You won't ever be a town lean in my mind until you either make a case on someone and defend it, or sheep a case on someone and explain why. Not taking stances = I can't judge you 100%.
Unfortunately I'm trying to be careful with my vote so it looks like that won't happen anytime soon. -.- At least I'm glad to see you're finally starting to realize I'm a townie.
On June 15 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Maybe me being suspicious of all of them early day 1 will buy me some town cred???? I need some after being afk so long.
Don't worry. It looks like Rels -> Sulfurus right now. If both are right, I'm pretty sure we'll have to vote to kill ruXxar and we always have cop to check if necessary.
Reasons that he could be town: 1. He posts questions to people, but contrary to scott, he follows up with analysis of the answer. He shows a willingness to solve the game, or at least he's faking that willingness. 2. Didn't solely sheep the cases on me, but made his own. OK, the points are not clear, but he worked on it. He even addressed a point nobody else did: the fact that I wasn't that much engaged on a geript's lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 05:37 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, I started reading filters and I especially looked at Rels/Sulfurus as people have been implying. I REALLY think they're both Mafia.
Rels first comes into the thread and directs all attention to the passive posts from both me and Fake)Plants. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
Then he tries to switch the case onto me-geript-batsnacks which is the next best scapegoat from a newbie who only posted once and never again. Not only that, but notice how he attempts to bring this under the light while trying to cover for Sulfurus who is beginning to become suspected.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
I have strong town reads on wos and KS. I have town reads on ruxxar, oats and trfel. I really want to like Sulfu as he had the same attitude of "not posting a lot but ask question" last game, and he was town. But I think he has less than 5 posts atm, that's really not a lot.
Everybody I have not talk about I have either no read or mafia lean. It's especially hard on the moosy - geript - bats situation. I don't like moosy for : - his first post - his multiple times stating he is a newbie
But geript's reasoning for voting him is super bad. And batsnacks' one is so weird, involving double bus at one point.
Well. Here is my brain atm.
Then he tries to make a case on me once people tell him me-geript-batsnacks was never a thing.
On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post:
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post.
Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about:
On June 12 2015 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yo, also keep in mind a newbie might be Mafia which is why he's not jumping on my post. Seems like something Mafia should do from reading the guide.
On June 13 2015 03:34 geript wrote: Nah. It'd be pretty odd if there wasn't at least 1 veteran on the mafia team.
I'm re-reading posts right now to make a list, but the veteran(s) had to be inactive at the start to not point it out. On the other hand, any newbie might be the Mafia.
After this, he leaves the thread for a bit and posts a list of people he suspects in order to pretend to be active. Then WaveofShadow, Oats, and me begin to defend batsnacks whereupon a case begins to form around geript and Sulfurus. Rels decides upon lynching geript and not Sulfurus. Note that before this he is also defending Sulfurus by saying he played the same way in "the previous game". However, batsnacks provided several examples where Sulfurus was providing better critical analysis whereupon Rels is forced to remain quiet.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
##Vote geript
As Trfel already pointed out, Rels also does not really seem to support this vote as he already knows who Mafia REALLY is.
On June 13 2015 19:22 Rels wrote: Geript could you expand on two things when you come back ?
1
On June 13 2015 03:08 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
This post is pretty bad.
On June 12 2015 10:30 Kickstart wrote: Because I've had the urge to troll you since I came back to playing mafia Oats. I can't help myself. Don't worry though the 2 scums atm are ruxxar and sulfurus so you are not in my tunnel atm.
[...] Oooh Damdred replaced in. That guy's town 100%. ezpz.
On June 13 2015 06:41 geript wrote: Nah. Damdred is 100% town. He's gotten pretty easy to read.
It's pretty cool that you can read damdred (= but this game he's impossible for to read atm due to lack of posts. Were you saying that if he's town you're going to know it for sure later ? And do you read damdred town right now ?
2
On June 13 2015 06:56 geript wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 geript wrote: Wave not making association cases would be far more concerning. Not a fan of trfel
Why don't you like Trfel?
Not really something something I can put my finger on. Feels I guess. Maybe my impression of his meta is off from his actual meta since I don't think I've played a game with him for a bit. [...]
I would be super interested if you took the time to reread Trfel's past game with you and expand on that. If you don't have the time to do that, could you at least try to explain this more ?
And from this point, Rels disappears, never addresses Trfel's point and he never really answered any other questions as well. I'm curious to see his response when he comes back although I believe a strong case can be made against both Rels and Sulfurus as a team of Mafia.
3. WOS, one of my town hard read, has a hard read on moosy. Quoted in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Moosydoosy For all of the reasons I've stated previously. Moosy's play has just been extremely consistent with a very new player overall. Yes it is POSSIBLE scum can replicate this, but not without messing up somewhere down the line and certainly not with this level of activity. (The caveat here which might have to be looked into eventually that I find kind of interesting is this 'bait' he pulled off recently. Is a Moosy who is so nooby as to not realize geript flipped town for example, able to pull off a play like that? Food for thought, but not tomorrow.)
At the end of the day, I find that his wishy washiness disappeared a little bit too fast when he started pushing me hard. So I'm not definite he's scum, but if I was at LYLO with him and anyone other than Kickstart and scott, I would lynch him. Conclusion: Mafia lean
1. Newbie post. I know you hate me saying it, but it is a newbie post. As a note, I was interested in finding out their perspectives which is why I asked. I would understand if it was a completely empty and passive post, but I was trying to get in on the conversation, and it's enough that you keep harping on it after this long. 2. I was attempting to help my fellow newbies escape a mislynch based on their first posts like you seem intent on doing with my first post. 3. Someone said that we should look at n00bKing which the first quote was a response to. That someone (I think Damdred?) then asked for reasoning which I provided with second quote. So it wasn't me trying to associate with n00bKing but me answering someone's questions and replying to that someone. 4. Yeh, that's already refuted because I felt it was safer to assume that the person with more cases against him was Mafia. 5. I figured it was time to take movement. I'm still a passive player, but you can still see hints of that aggression in my defense in Day 1. I was also uncertain if ruXxar was a Mafia or not which is what I was pressuring him for. I wasn't pressuring him to lynch you two (he said he would, but backed out of it just as fast) but I was trying to see if I could get a slip to know if he's Mafia or not. I'm still not sure about it, but his defense was terrible and he ran away at the end.
Does that answer your points or would you like specifics?
On June 15 2015 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol also this moosy vs ruxxar business. I gotta say moosy you're scaring me a little because if I'm going to get burned by one of you it looks like you'd be the one. I can visibly see you improving in the middle of this game and part of me wonders if it's because you were sandbagging all along.
On June 15 2015 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol also this moosy vs ruxxar business. I gotta say moosy you're scaring me a little because if I'm going to get burned by one of you it looks like you'd be the one. I can visibly see you improving in the middle of this game and part of me wonders if it's because you were sandbagging all along.
^.^ Nah. idk if you'll necessarily trust me since this is a game of Mafia, but I'm not scum. Either way, thanks for the compliment. The only reason why I've been improving this much is because I have a whole host of role models and examples in this thread to look at.
If I'm still Mafia in your mind after all that, then there's nothing I can do about it at that point because I've already refuted all your points unless you have any more.
On June 16 2015 03:28 Rels wrote: MoosyDoosy I don't really know about him. Will list for what reasons I find him scummy, and what reasons he could be town too.
Reasons for me suspecting him: 1. His first post. It's bad, long and weird. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
2. He refers himself as a newbie several times. Not as much as I thought day 1, but there is still a number of times he does it. In addition, he either dumbtells a few times and didn't read the OP carefully. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: [...] I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 13 2015 02:08 scott31337 wrote: Geript has four posts and very little content. I know he's good as mafia - but on the scum side of null for now.
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
Is this a dumbtell and didn't read the OP? Did he read boxerfred's last game and took all his ideas (Ie I'll act like I'm so newb everybody will just read me over for a few days)
On June 13 2015 00:58 MoosyDoosy wrote: What I want to do is find out why geript stopped posting after WaveofShadow had a scumread on him.
@batsnacks, I mean, I'm pretty sure I made it clear I was a town but sure, go ahead and waste your vote.
I sure am not seeing this "I made it clear". "Go ahead and waste your vote" is a very interesting way to word a vote on you if you are town.
On June 12 2015 22:54 batsnacks wrote: I think I'm going to sheep geript now he was making sense about moose.
##unvote ##vote moosygoosy
On June 12 2015 10:27 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:16 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On June 12 2015 08:10 ruXxar wrote: I'd like to hear your reasoning for voting on me, besides the fact that very few other people have spoke up yet.
I am just rather overwhelmed by the amount of (cross) analysis occurring right now. ^.^ Although this is my first time around, I can already tell this will be great.
Down to business. So @ruXxar, your reasoning for voting for Kickstart is his statement about lying in a game of Mafia?
And @Trfel, can you please share why you're suspecting @ruXxar? I would have to agree with ruXxar's point that it is generally annoying when someone answers a question directed at you. Although I don't see why Kickstart went so far as to vote for Oatsmaster right off the bat. Unless he's the Mafia and trying to mislead us.
On another note, do we know how many Mafias there are? If there are two Mafias, Oatsmaster and Kickstart may be those two and may have set this up to make everyone confused and make people like you two fight amongst yourselves.
people should be talking about this.
Making sense? He quoted one post and said talk about this.
I like Oat's post about "N00bking" looking townie since didn't stop his advice posting even when people stopped him - that makes a lot of sense.
Bats and Geript bussing Moose? looks like the most logical conclusion I see at this time.
## Batsnacks / Geript / MoosyDoosy but that would be too ez.
But not liking Batsnacks.
Anyone have any questions or want to point out things I may have missed?
Ok, let's get this straight. As I said multiple times before, I'm new to TL and online Mafia. Either way, I'll address your points.
1. You say geript is a good Mafia from previous games and he's too obvious here leading to the conclusion he's not Mafia. If that's the case, how would you expect me to know that? I've never played TL Mafia before and never played with geript so I wouldn't know. 2. All I know about boxerfred is from his post here where he said he couldn't play and from his lack of posts. I don't even know what games he was previously in. The only person I know is Trfel who goes on Bnet forums from time to time which is where I commonly post. 3. I don't see how "Go ahead and waste your vote" is weird. I'm clearly a town so I don't see why batsnacks would vote for me. 4. I already explained why I worded my first post in my first Mafia game in the way I did. I've obviously seen why that's a bad thing to do (Mafia will find a way to point it out and lynch me) so I'm obviously not going to do that in the future.
Is there anything else?
1. I was not saying either way - but Geript is a good mafia player.Is he AFK or uninterested or mafia or both? That's what we're trying to figure out. If you have free time and would like, the TL Mafia Database has a listing of peoples games here and links.
2. I'll rephrase - Boxerfred posted a lot of newbie/dumb questions and skated on this for a few days until people got suspicious of him. It was a ruse. You have read the whole OP (first post) now right? You know what roles CAN be in the game?
3. You just said it again. "I'm clearly a town" - if you say it enough I'll start to believe it? People who keep saying lines like this irk me. "The Most Basic Form of Mind Control is Repetition"
4. Fair enough point, thank you.
scott, bottom line is that most of your reasoning is based on the belief that I'll know how others play or how to play. And what I keep saying is that I'm new to online Mafia and don't know how to play or how others play.
There are 3 Mafia and 2 town roles. I believe that reducing kill power from 2 to 1 is the single most important factor in us winning the game. This would buy us so much time that we should have overwhelming odds of winning. The chance of targeting Carl is very low.
I'm ok with taking the odds of a power role checking Carl if it means we increase our chances of killing mafia.
Does knowing that there is only 1 mafia attack each Night change your position?
Also, where are you getting that there are "2 town roles?" I see absolutely nothing that would indicate there are 8 VTs and 2 non-Vanilla Town roles, if that is what you are saying.
Sorry for this newbie question which I should have asked earlier but which slipped my mind because I had to do something else. What's a Carl?
3. WIFOM point: 3 hours before noobking was killed, moosy did two posts to say noobking was town. Could be he knew that noobking was going to be confirmed town, and wanted the towncred of listing as town before he died. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:47 MoosyDoosy wrote: Nah, I think n00bKing's a townie. He's been decent at pressuring people although he's pretty bossy and gives way too much advice. Not to mention his posts are super wordy. Either way, I still think Rels/Sulfurus deserve another look. When Rels comes back, we should ask him to defend himself against Trfel's points. We should be able to get a read on the defense.
On June 15 2015 04:22 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, did a reading of n00bKing and I don't think he's Mafia.
Personality read: Likes to be in control, dislikes change, rather bossy. As can be evidenced in his posts lamenting changes in people's opinion, how he gives so much advice, and how he always tries and tell people what to do. I think his personality is what affects so much of his posting which is why most of it is convoluted and he feels the need to pursue even the trivial. Like really? Arguing with batsnacks over "advice"?
Town read: Very consistent. At the start, yes he floods the thread with advice, but when he starts pressuring people, he remains consistent. It seems that he suspected batsnacks, me, and Plants at the start for our behavior and strange post(s). As the game continues and even to this very point, he has been pressuring me and batsnacks and has remained consistent in doing so.
In fact, this may be his downfall more than most. While it seems that he agrees that Rels/Sulf exhibit suspicious behavior, he still seems intent on finding ways to bring me and batsnacks down per how he read us at the very start of the thread. As for other people's posts, he seems content to question a couple but mostly agree or add on to their posts.
Conclusion: n00bking's filter just shows consistency in what he's been doing. He gets caught in the trivial, he's bossy, and he gave a bit too much advice at the start, but he is definitely a townie that's trying to catch the Mafia.
4. This post where I make the theory that moosy is using noobking's legacy to push his own case, even though it's not the same. 5. He was very wishy washy day 1, and argumented it was his style. Then night 1 and day 2 he changed pretty hardly and is now pushing ruxxar hard for my lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 09:10 MoosyDoosy wrote: @Rels, any comments on my posts? Still confused why you don't think I'm townie.
OK sorry in advance, but in my mind it's actually pretty good where you're at. I was so sure you were mafia with your first post that me imagining you at null read is a pretty good deal. When I made this post with the two points I was thinking I was going to destroy you. I think I was clouded by my first impression of you.
You won't ever be a town lean in my mind until you either make a case on someone and defend it, or sheep a case on someone and explain why. Not taking stances = I can't judge you 100%.
Unfortunately I'm trying to be careful with my vote so it looks like that won't happen anytime soon. -.- At least I'm glad to see you're finally starting to realize I'm a townie.
On June 15 2015 07:35 Kickstart wrote: Maybe me being suspicious of all of them early day 1 will buy me some town cred???? I need some after being afk so long.
Don't worry. It looks like Rels -> Sulfurus right now. If both are right, I'm pretty sure we'll have to vote to kill ruXxar and we always have cop to check if necessary.
Reasons that he could be town: 1. He posts questions to people, but contrary to scott, he follows up with analysis of the answer. He shows a willingness to solve the game, or at least he's faking that willingness. 2. Didn't solely sheep the cases on me, but made his own. OK, the points are not clear, but he worked on it. He even addressed a point nobody else did: the fact that I wasn't that much engaged on a geript's lynch. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 05:37 MoosyDoosy wrote: Okay, I started reading filters and I especially looked at Rels/Sulfurus as people have been implying. I REALLY think they're both Mafia.
Rels first comes into the thread and directs all attention to the passive posts from both me and Fake)Plants. + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
Then he tries to switch the case onto me-geript-batsnacks which is the next best scapegoat from a newbie who only posted once and never again. Not only that, but notice how he attempts to bring this under the light while trying to cover for Sulfurus who is beginning to become suspected.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
I have strong town reads on wos and KS. I have town reads on ruxxar, oats and trfel. I really want to like Sulfu as he had the same attitude of "not posting a lot but ask question" last game, and he was town. But I think he has less than 5 posts atm, that's really not a lot.
Everybody I have not talk about I have either no read or mafia lean. It's especially hard on the moosy - geript - bats situation. I don't like moosy for : - his first post - his multiple times stating he is a newbie
But geript's reasoning for voting him is super bad. And batsnacks' one is so weird, involving double bus at one point.
Well. Here is my brain atm.
Then he tries to make a case on me once people tell him me-geript-batsnacks was never a thing.
On June 13 2015 08:25 Rels wrote: Fuck I was making a case on you moosy but reading your filter a lot of my points are false. Like I was saying you kept repeating that you were newb. Actually it's not true.
I still have two things left in my suspicion of you, so could you please comment on them.
First point You don't take any stand. Not against me nor anyone else. More than that, a few hours ago, you discussed people you wanted to make a case on but you're still undecided. In particular what is this post:
On June 13 2015 05:40 geript wrote: ~7 hours batty
Okay I can't dick around anymore. Please help me not get lynched, I require written instructions for how to get people to unvote me.
Push someone who you think is actually scum then???????? Just a though~
What do I do if I don't have any scum reads? In a sense almost no one has scum reads because I'm town and the only people pushing stuff are pushing me.
Here's would lynch: 3)MoosyDoosy 4)Sulfurus 7)Fake)Plants 2)batsnacks 3)Trfel
here's idk can't form opinion: 6)damdred 1)Rels 4)WaveofShadow 5)geript 5)ruXxar
Here's would not lynch: 2)n00bKing 1)Kickstart 6)Oatsmaster
HELP
Sulfurus looks easiest if you want to make a case. geript might pass but idk. They both have 1 vote so you just need to persuade 2 more. tbh, I'm deciding between either Sulfurus or geript so help me out by making a case.
I hate that you are giving him targets on the basis of "you only need to convince two guys for those targets". Almost look like you want him to make a case, join him, and push the blame on him later. I also hate this sentence: "Sulfurus looks easiest is you want to make a case." Go make one yourself if you're so confident. Plus, you make this post to the guy voting you. Really, I liked your filter way than expected, but I hate this post.
Second point I find it weird that you say the following: newbie must be on mafia team, because otherwise they would have pushed on my first post. I find it weird that you felt the need to say it, against a super weak attack ("mafia should have pushed this post and didn't so moosy is mafia", more or less). Here are the posts I'm talking about:
On June 12 2015 11:03 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yo, also keep in mind a newbie might be Mafia which is why he's not jumping on my post. Seems like something Mafia should do from reading the guide.
On June 13 2015 03:34 geript wrote: Nah. It'd be pretty odd if there wasn't at least 1 veteran on the mafia team.
I'm re-reading posts right now to make a list, but the veteran(s) had to be inactive at the start to not point it out. On the other hand, any newbie might be the Mafia.
After this, he leaves the thread for a bit and posts a list of people he suspects in order to pretend to be active. Then WaveofShadow, Oats, and me begin to defend batsnacks whereupon a case begins to form around geript and Sulfurus. Rels decides upon lynching geript and not Sulfurus. Note that before this he is also defending Sulfurus by saying he played the same way in "the previous game". However, batsnacks provided several examples where Sulfurus was providing better critical analysis whereupon Rels is forced to remain quiet.
On June 13 2015 20:59 Rels wrote: Alright I have to go. I will check from my phone from time to time. For now my vote is on geript. May switch to Damdred if he keeps on lurking.
If nobody changes vote and I have to choose between the two wagons I'll vote Sulfu.
##Vote geript
As Trfel already pointed out, Rels also does not really seem to support this vote as he already knows who Mafia REALLY is.
On June 13 2015 19:22 Rels wrote: Geript could you expand on two things when you come back ?
1
On June 13 2015 03:08 geript wrote:
On June 12 2015 10:12 Sulfurus wrote: I'm starting to really like the case on Kickstarter; he has made a lot of posts that give the illusion of being a helpful towny with his PSA and rule clarifications but they are really just filler and something that the mods already have covered.
On top of that I think n00bKing's defense of ruXx is spot on which gives even more validity to the Kickstarter push.
##Vote: Kickstarter
(I admit that in a vacuum I would probably scum read Bats more but I've learned my lesson from last game)
This post is pretty bad.
On June 12 2015 10:30 Kickstart wrote: Because I've had the urge to troll you since I came back to playing mafia Oats. I can't help myself. Don't worry though the 2 scums atm are ruxxar and sulfurus so you are not in my tunnel atm.
[...] Oooh Damdred replaced in. That guy's town 100%. ezpz.
On June 13 2015 06:41 geript wrote: Nah. Damdred is 100% town. He's gotten pretty easy to read.
It's pretty cool that you can read damdred (= but this game he's impossible for to read atm due to lack of posts. Were you saying that if he's town you're going to know it for sure later ? And do you read damdred town right now ?
2
On June 13 2015 06:56 geript wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 batsnacks wrote:
On June 13 2015 06:47 geript wrote: Wave not making association cases would be far more concerning. Not a fan of trfel
Why don't you like Trfel?
Not really something something I can put my finger on. Feels I guess. Maybe my impression of his meta is off from his actual meta since I don't think I've played a game with him for a bit. [...]
I would be super interested if you took the time to reread Trfel's past game with you and expand on that. If you don't have the time to do that, could you at least try to explain this more ?
And from this point, Rels disappears, never addresses Trfel's point and he never really answered any other questions as well. I'm curious to see his response when he comes back although I believe a strong case can be made against both Rels and Sulfurus as a team of Mafia.
3. WOS, one of my town hard read, has a hard read on moosy. Quoted in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler +
On June 15 2015 03:00 WaveofShadow wrote: Moosydoosy For all of the reasons I've stated previously. Moosy's play has just been extremely consistent with a very new player overall. Yes it is POSSIBLE scum can replicate this, but not without messing up somewhere down the line and certainly not with this level of activity. (The caveat here which might have to be looked into eventually that I find kind of interesting is this 'bait' he pulled off recently. Is a Moosy who is so nooby as to not realize geript flipped town for example, able to pull off a play like that? Food for thought, but not tomorrow.)
At the end of the day, I find that his wishy washiness disappeared a little bit too fast when he started pushing me hard. So I'm not definite he's scum, but if I was at LYLO with him and anyone other than Kickstart and scott, I would lynch him. Conclusion: Mafia lean
1. Newbie post. I know you hate me saying it, but it is a newbie post. As a note, I was interested in finding out their perspectives which is why I asked. I would understand if it was a completely empty and passive post, but I was trying to get in on the conversation, and it's enough that you keep harping on it after this long. 2. I was attempting to help my fellow newbies escape a mislynch based on their first posts like you seem intent on doing with my first post. 3. Someone said that we should look at n00bKing which the first quote was a response to. That someone (I think Damdred?) then asked for reasoning which I provided with second quote. So it wasn't me trying to associate with n00bKing but me answering someone's questions and replying to that someone. 4. Yeh, that's already refuted because I felt it was safer to assume that the person with more cases against him was Mafia. 5. I figured it was time to take movement. I'm still a passive player, but you can still see hints of that aggression in my defense in Day 1. I was also uncertain if ruXxar was a Mafia or not which is what I was pressuring him for. I wasn't pressuring him to lynch you two (he said he would, but backed out of it just as fast) but I was trying to see if I could get a slip to know if he's Mafia or not. I'm still not sure about it, but his defense was terrible and he ran away at the end.
Does that answer your points or would you like specifics?
Point 1, 2 and 4, you're going to say that even if you're mafia, so your answers don't solve nor aggravate the points. By themselves they don't make you hard scum, they just make me suspicious of you.
Point 3, I'll check, if you're right then this point is null.
Point 5, I'll see how you evolved as the day goes on.
On June 16 2015 03:44 MoosyDoosy wrote: Also Rels I'd like you to take a look at this.
On June 15 2015 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol also this moosy vs ruxxar business. I gotta say moosy you're scaring me a little because if I'm going to get burned by one of you it looks like you'd be the one. I can visibly see you improving in the middle of this game and part of me wonders if it's because you were sandbagging all along.
On June 15 2015 11:03 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol also this moosy vs ruxxar business. I gotta say moosy you're scaring me a little because if I'm going to get burned by one of you it looks like you'd be the one. I can visibly see you improving in the middle of this game and part of me wonders if it's because you were sandbagging all along.
^.^ Nah. idk if you'll necessarily trust me since this is a game of Mafia, but I'm not scum. Either way, thanks for the compliment. The only reason why I've been improving this much is because I have a whole host of role models and examples in this thread to look at.
That's NAI but touching (= whatever your alignment I can see you're improving and having fun, so it's pretty cool.
On June 16 2015 00:19 Rels wrote: scott31337 I think scott is mafia for these reasons 1. You knew it was coming (= scott's predecessor, plants, had only one post, and that post was super bad. + Show Spoiler +
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
Lying is a powerful tool that when used in the right situation can greatly benefit one's interests.
I really don't like this idea from ruX. If town lies and gets lynched then what information did that townie provide? Are you trying to lure out mafia by lying? Mafia has more information at the beginning and can utilize lying better than town, especially if it comes from a townie.
Sorry for being late to the thread, I did not check TL the last couple of days after I thought someone else beat me to a newbie slot. Good to be here!
First post of his. Next to last to enter the thread. Just fluff on the first paragraph.
What is really scum is the second paragraph. Two points:
- He enter the thread late and feels he needs to post an excuse. To me, he had the mindset of entering the thread without saying anything, and apologizing so people like him. - His excuse is false. We all had to confirm yesterday, so that's not possible that he did not check TL the last couple of days, or that he believed that someone else took his spot.
2. scott hoped on the "lynch Rels" train too easily for my taste. His only arguments were "Trfel's case is good" and "he didn't answer my question". Furthermore, the Trfel's case he's sheeping is not the initial one but a super bad one. Even noobking said so. See here for more info on case. In spoiler you'll find the evolution of scott's read on me.
That's fair - You have looked a bit better in the last few pages - It's appreciated. I was ready to lynch you. I haven't read anything on KS either since this post. The thing I'm not liking is how you try to convince Sulf is town. We will figure this out. His wall of text sounded convincing, and yes, I did see N00b actually wanted Sulf lynched first. Look what happened?
On June 13 2015 01:44 scott31337 wrote: Good day. I'm at page 16 - So far not liking N00bking for his wordy fluff - and Rels gets a slight townread (even if it's for calling out my replacement). KS and Oats feel are two townies angry at each other.
On June 12 2015 10:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway Trfel, what makes bats town?
I had a town lean on batsnacks due to the balance between his jokes and serious reads. Since then, batsnacks has been much more serious, and his jokes are few and far between, so this read isn't valid any more.
On June 12 2015 10:51 Oatsmaster wrote: NAI is a new thing lol.
I kinda like ruxxar. It was really funny that he answered a question not directed at him asking why people shouldnt answer questions not directed at them.
He doesnt do it intentionally to just create content IMO.
(bold added) So if he doesn't do it intentionally, then why is it towny?
On June 12 2015 15:03 n00bKing wrote: It's also worth noting that RuXx purposely furthered the conversation about Town players lying, AFTER he saw that some other players were reacting negatively to what he had said. If a Newbie scum player saw that what he had said was causing some raised eyebrows, he might clam up or change the subject, to get beyond the comment that had raised suspicion, and bury it. Instead, he challenges the people who expressed a contradictory viewpoint, which ensures that no readers who come along later will gloss over what he's said.
You could try to say that he didn't realize it was a controversial statement when he first made it. But even after it was clear to him (based on the posts of other players) that it was a controversial statement, he stuck to it, and called more attention to it. Again, I feel like this is boldness you would seldom see from an inexperienced scum player.
This point about ruXxar continuing to press the lying issue is good. I guess I judged ruXxar too early.
##unvote
On June 12 2015 16:35 Rels wrote: Hello everybody, GL HF!
I'll read the thread now and comment on things. See you soon.
I really don't like this post at all. Posting without having read the thread is useless, the only thing it helps with is making it look like you're doing more work that you actually are, and it detracts from scumhunting. But making a useless post after the investigation has already started is pathetic.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
Rels, what about ruXxar's post made you say this?
On June 13 2015 01:10 WaveofShadow wrote: I can't decide now if I think geript and bats could be scum together for this horribleness. Association cases = bad but I can't help it and I THINK it's probably not the case. One of them at least for sure though.
I have no idea why someone as experienced as WaveofShadow would share a potential association case while in the same post acknowledging that association cases are bad. Please explain.
On June 13 2015 01:44 scott31337 wrote: Good day. I'm at page 16 - So far not liking N00bking for his wordy fluff - and Rels gets a slight townread (even if it's for calling out my replacement). KS and Oats feel are two townies angry at each other.
Let me catch up with the rest and a through read.
Why does calling out the player with only one post, who needs to get replaced, make someone town? Especially because, if you are town, he called out the easiest player to pick on who happens to be confirmed town.
I really don't like batsnacks' response to the pressure on him. Batsnacks doesn't normally react like this, he's fine under pressure. In my first game playing with him, I tunneled him for basically all of Day 1 and Night 1, and he made a post telling people to stop arguing about useless things and read the case I had posted on him.
I need to read some filters, but batsnacks seems very active, concerned about his safety, but not providing actual content.
On June 13 2015 06:42 n00bKing wrote:
On June 13 2015 03:28 geript wrote:
On June 13 2015 03:25 batsnacks wrote: I don't know what geripts alignment is...
Clearly that guy is 3P.
I don't know what 3P means either.
Third party.
Let me rephrase this since I see what you are saying but I didn't type that properly. Rels made a case on my replacement slot that he believed in, and caught Plants in a "lie" - I saw him a slight town read for believing in his case. I meant more of (even if he is calling out my replacement slot).
On June 13 2015 07:29 scott31337 wrote: Who I'm liking so far -
Wave Trfel n00bKing Damdred Oats
Probably wouldn't lynch today - Rels Kickstart
Could Lynch - Batsnacks Geript MoosyDoosy Sulfurus RuXxar
On June 13 2015 07:37 scott31337 wrote: KS and Rels are playing a lot different then my last game with either of them, which makes me wonder.
What the fuck is that thing. Say how we played differently or don't say anything at all.
His next post is how he changed his reads on me. Just sheep the Trfel. Easy no effort would do again.
Rels is generally throwing around suspicions on everything. His townread on ruXxar changed after it was clear that the push on ruXxar wasn't going anywhere. He's scumreading people already being scumread by others, and multiple times he uses other people's posts to justify increasing his own suspicions of other people. + Show Spoiler [Examples] +
Criticizing MoosyDoosy's opening post (geript already did this) Suspicious of batsnacks (common suspicion), geript (WaveofShadow already said this), and MoosyDoosy (geript) Agrees with the suspicion I voiced on MoosyDoosy Immediately asked geript for his reason for being suspicious of scott31337, suddenly is more suspicious of him himself (see my previous post)
It seems like Rels is like a leaf in the wind, following thread sentiment, jumping on whatever works. He townreads people who are being townread already, he scumreads people who are being scumread, and only changes when the thread sentiment shifts.
The one major departure from this trend is when he townreads batsnacks. He did this before Damdred jumped in. This is a pretty big change in his read, and against the thread sentiment. However, I think that the way that Rels jumps on whatever suspicion is available every other time in the thread is quite telling.
I can get aboard this and feeling better then a Sulf lynch - you pulled a lot of work Trfel. You the man!
On June 15 2015 02:05 batsnacks wrote: n00bking you read a lot of newbie mafia X right? Who would you say your play style this game most closely resembles in that game?
That's a very unusual question. I guess I hadn't thought about it. Without going back to look at that thread, I guess I would say my play in this game is a closest match for...Rels, in that game? I remember often thinking that Breschke and Barakos were saying things that made me think they were Town. But they weren't always saying things that I had myself been thinking before they posted it. Rels was.
(P.S. I still can't believe you guys lynched Bill Murray over ninjabunnies. I was almost yelling at the screen, toward the end of that Phase. lol)
BM was a fine lynch he didn't do anything to prevent it and we had a green check on bunnies.
Your posting this game is very similar to boxerfred. He spent tons of effort speculating about roles instead of focusing on finding mafia and we all just gave him a pass because he was new and at least he was posting a lot.
I don't know if he read the mafia QT either, but it was all a ruse to get newbtowncred. This brings up a very good point.
So even in my question to rels (who has not answered yet) Sulfurus still hasn't posted anything. All there is are a couple posts on lynch Trfel (who I townread and is mostly townread at this time) so I'm doubtful this is going to happen. - so make a case or try again.
I'm down for a Sulf or a Rels lynch.
Where I'm at -
BS looks- okay? even if we was incorrect Damdred is trying to solve the game WoS and Trfel are up there as well, I like WoS list post. Oats has a little defensive attitude, but slight town also Kickstart just feels so much more different then his last game as town which makes me wonder about him n00bking is a slight town read but a lot of wordy fluff in his posts Moosy I'm still a toss up on Ruxxar - His bluehunting was terrible. I want to smack him in the head with a trout. Donkey town?
On June 15 2015 07:09 scott31337 wrote: What an awesome post, n00b. I haven't felt good about Sulf or Rels, and Rels didn't reply to anything, just went to sleep.
K so to begin with, Rels and Oats are the first two on. Circumstances: Rels - came up with sorta-novel reasons to vote Geript once I was already off of him. This is probably actually a point in his favour overall as it was probably easier to do so while I was on him (though then again maybe it's just because he wasn't on while all my shit with him was going down? meh. He also asks me why I stopped voting him) The vote itself isn't bad is what I'm saying here.
Oats - Just switched on to him with no exposition as I mentioned earlier. When asked his response was:
On June 14 2015 10:16 Oatsmaster wrote: WHat you want wave?
Geript flipped town. Sucks. Move on.
If you are asking why Geript as opposed to other people, basically what I explained earlier. He didn't post before I slept so yeah, that's where my read was.
On June 13 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm scum reading sulfurus because you are sleeping people onto bats, means you don't really tthink bats is mafia, but your town reads do so you value their opinion over yours.
Bats isn't gonna shit up the thread lol, that's an empty threat. I was totally right about geript switching off moose btw. I think geript is easily mafia.
This is believable actually, and he had a good reason to switch I suppose, I just didn't bother to look back initially when accusing him. This also fits with his 'more-likely-townplay' of switching reads around constantly.
Now comes the shitstorm. I'm fine with Bat's vote so I'm not going to bother here. Important to note though that he already has 3 people on him when Bats votes so scum can now see this is as a likely mislynch.
Trfel - First to jump on the wake of Bat's 'discovery.' Eh. On looking through I thought he was on Rels all day and then dropped his amazing case instantly in favor of even after this post:
On June 14 2015 04:14 Trfel wrote: Ugh, I just don't quite feel right about lynching geript or Damdred. They're both incredible players, and it's the weekend, so it's unfair to expect normal activity levels from them.
##vote Rels
But he was onto batsnacks as well at one point. It does kinda look as though he almost doesn't believe his own case at times because of his initial dropoff from Rels onto bats, then as bats lost ground back onto rels again and onto Geript. He does put a LOT of effort into his rels push when he is on him though so at the same time it seems doubtful that this is a half-assed push where he was just looking for an out. Not sold either on this one. Also liked his activity around the lynch and his first post after flip.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Bats...I am so proud of you
Interested to hear what bats himself thinks here of the people who sheeped him actually. I take it you were too excited it about your lynch at the time to see all of this going down?
Moosy - Fine with him. Has a monster filter, constant discussion of the lynch while it was going down.
Ruxxar - Ah, I remember pointing this one out before.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Wow bats... I'm speechless.
I had you and geript as my top two scum.
I refuse to believe that you would bus your own scum teammate this hard. You really redeemed yourself here in my eyes.
I'll have to change my alignment of you to town and change my vote to geript.
##Unvote batsnacks ##Vote geript
I also remember not liking his post after the flip. Just looks like he's making more excuses and feigning...something. Ugh I know I've been calling him town due to the moosy business but the more I watch those two the more I think SOMETHING has to be going on here. Ruxxar more likely scum than moosy by a huge factor.
Scott - Actually just ninjavoted. Didn't even say a thing about Geript. That's interesting. Ballsy for scum but apparently nobody picked up on it so far?
Personally thinking Damdred and Ruxxar come out looking the worst on geript train analysis. Both jump on after the train has begun to gather steam and help to push it past the crucial point (Damdred more so than even Ruxxar) But ruxxar's posting around it was pretty terrible while Damdred's is minimal and while not great, I COULD just see it coming from non-self-conscious town.
I'm kind of glad I did, when I came back to the thread the flip was already there. I could've got modkilled for failure to vote with the hour earlier confusion. Batsnacks case made sense at the time and I sheeped it.
was there any reason you didnt feel a need to post in the thread around that time?
Who are your scumreads now?
I did but indirectly. The flipped already happened - I went to re-evaluate.
Rels / Sulf / KS - I have asked multiple questions to Rels and he could care less answering mine or the others.
Sulf's filter as I've said before has a couple posts and then goes after Trfel
KS would be the least of the three, but his game is so much different then last game and he was town.
3. Small filter, that can be explained by the fact that he replaced in. But in his small filters, there is a lot of fluff.
On June 14 2015 03:50 n00bKing wrote: Does knowing that there is only 1 mafia attack each Night change your position?
Knowing that there is only 1 kp, then i believe there is a case both for and against the PGO to reveal himself.
Here are my scenarios for and against :
For:
The PGO is a weak town player that might get cop checked. The PGO is one of the strongest town players and likely to be targeted by the medic.
Against:
A semi strong town player is the PGO, but he's not the strongest. Medic will most likely protect the perceived strongest town player. The mafia knowing this will go for some of the second strongest targets they know probably won't be saved by the medic. In this case it's beneficial for the PGO to not reveal himself.
That's pretty interesting, considering you had just said this:
ruXxar wrote: After reducing kill power to 1 I would agree that Carl revealing himself is a good play.
In my first post I was just taking into consideration that mafia with 1 kp perform 1 target action per night and that town has 2 with cop and medic. It wasn't until my last post that i thought about it more deeply and tried to figure out the real scenarios.
I'm also not used to mafia with more roles than mafia, cop, medic, vigilante and town. A lot of my thinking right now is automatically based around just having those roles in the game, since that's what i've had the most exposure to. I'm trying to rectify this.
You're moving in the opposite direction of what would make sense, though. You assumed the Town had only Cop and Doctor. And said that once the Mafia was down to 1kp, it makes sense for Carl to claim.
Now, nevermind the fact that a discussion OF the Carl role ALREADY destroys your notion that the Town only has Cop and Doctor as its non-vanilla roles.
When you add in Dr. Weird and Frylock as additional Town roles that could be killed by Carl (both of which would kill Carl at the same time!) it becomes way MORE obvious that Carl needs to claim. Instead, when you thought about it more, you start to see a case for and against him claiming? That doesn't make any sense. Please make sense.
My scenarios make sense in the isolated scope i presented.
I'm trying to make sense of the role listed posted on the first page but it's confusing me.
scum team - "Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday" context: + Show Spoiler +
Roleblocker - Cybernectic Ghost of Christmas Past from the Future: Every night, you may choose a player to roleblock, which will prevent them from performing actions and visits that night. The roleblocked player will be notified, even if s/he is vanilla. + Show Spoiler +
Rolecop -Happy Time Harry: Every night you may choose a player to role check. You will get a result saying what role they have.+ Show Spoiler +
Godfather - Ignignokt the mooninite: You return "town" to cop checks, as though you were a vanilla townie. + Show Spoiler +
Vigilante - rabbot: Once per game, at night, you may select a player to kill. That player is shot overnight and dies at the start of the next day. If your target was also shot by mafia, or was protected by a doctor or veteran status, your bullet is lost. If you were roleblocked, you don't use your bullet and can try againt he next night. + Show Spoiler +
Goon - plutionian (Emory and Ogelthorpe) + Show Spoiler +
Town Mad Hatter - Dr. Weird: You have 1 bomb. At night you can place that bomb on another player, or move the bomb. When you die, the bomb blows up killing them. If your target is lynched, your bomb is lost. If your target is shot, the bomb is returned to you. You win with the town.+ Show Spoiler +
Cop - Allen (Alien): Each night phase, you may choose a player to investigate. You will visit the player and receive "Town" or "Anti-town" as a result. Your results are guaranteed to be accurate. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
Veteran - Master Shake: You have a bulletproof vest that can absorb one bullet. This means you need to be shot twice in order to die: once to destroy the vest, once to kill you. If you are roleblocked, however, your bulletproof vest doesn't work that night. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
Vigilante - frylock: Once per game, at night, you may select a player to kill. That player is shot overnight and dies at the start of the next day. If your target was also shot by mafia, or was protected by a doctor or veteran status, your bullet is lost. If you were roleblocked, you don't use your bullet and can try againt he next night. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
Paranoid Gun Owner - Carl: The Paranoid Gun Owner passively (and involuntarily) kills anyone who targets it during the Night. You win with town.+ Show Spoiler +
Doctor - Neil: Every night, you may choose a player other than yourself to protect. You will visit the player, and if the mafia attempt to kill a player you are protecting on the same night, the kill will fail. Neither you nor the target will be notified if you prevent a kill. You win with the town. + Show Spoiler +
VT - Meatwad piece + Show Spoiler +
According to this, it's possible that the 3 mafia can have these roles:
Role blocker, rolecop, godfather, vigilante and goon.
Or does it mean that there are 3 mafia PLUS possibly 5 other roles that are not mafia, but win when mafia wins?
Please help me understand.
Your first sentence is correct - "it's possible that the 3 mafia can have these roles:
Role blocker, rolecop, godfather, vigilante and goon."
and It's usually going to be two roles and a goon, and one will probably be a roleblocker. But the hosts could have some crazy setup as well, you never know, this is just based on past TL mafia games.
On June 15 2015 05:50 ruXxar wrote: Here's some food for thought.
So far we have scum reads on 2 mafia, Rels and Sulfu. Both are newbies.
How likely do you think that all 3 mafia are in the newbie group? Would it not make sense that at least 1 mafia is part of the veteran group?
People who have played previous newbie games, what is usually the distribution of mafia on newbie/veteran side?
In theory it's RNG.
IX was all newbies until Holyflare replaced in.
4. Even more troubling than small filters with fluff posts, scott has a lot of his posts asking question. And he never did anything with the answer he got. Seriously, if scott asked you a question, look if he did anything with his answer.
I didn't have anything to reply, they answered their questions to my satisfaction, when they did. Is your question I asked you in here? Nope. Did Oats ever respond to my question? Nope - but I'm fine with that, I think he was just trying for a reaction.
1. Lots of early posts with no content, only purpose is to make it seem like he's doing stuff + Show Spoiler +
1. Completely useless "hi" post ~10 hours after the game started, not necessary at all. 2. "LOL" in response to ruXxar's contradiction, no conclusion about his alignment at all* 3. Asks a question to ruXxar (still nothing about ruXxar's alignment) 4. Says that MoosyDoosy's first post is weird* 5. Tells n00bKing not to defend ruXxar* 6. Asks a question to Sulfurus* 7. Repeats one of Oatsmaster's comments*
The things with asterisks had been said by someone else before Rels commented on them.
Then he (finally) posts his case on Fake)Plants.
On June 12 2015 17:53 Rels wrote: OK I finally found a mafia.
And by doing this shows that all of his previous posts amount to very little.
There's really no reason for Rels to post like this, it serves no purpose for scumhunting or confirming his own alignment. All it does is make it look like he's doing work, but repeating things that have already been said isn't even work.
Rels just continues to talk about this post, spending many, many posts directing people back to it. He's not showing any interest in anything else that's happening.
On June 13 2015 00:22 Rels wrote: Alright ruxxar I was unsure how to read you. But with this post I now believe you're a super excited townie. I too believe that we should not let mafia the ability to stay silent.
So. What do you think of plants first and only post ?
Rels thinks that ruXxar is town for making a post with no content at all. RuXxar made a post saying that MoosyDoosy's defense of himself is really good, and then Rels townreads ruXxar for this. RuXxar's inability to defend himself but willingness to jump on someone else's defense of him is extremely scummy, and reminds me of ShoCkeyy in my last game. There is absolutely no reason for Rels to townread ruXxar because of this post.
Furthermore, he agrees that we shouldn't let the mafia stay silent. And he does this by asking his townread about the only other read he's made in this game, and then vanishing. Not actually acting on this whatsoever.
Oh hey good timing.
I really disagree on the easy target. I have no idea who is mafia between geript bat and moosy, if any. On the other hand the entrance post of plants was and still is super bad. And I don't care for IRL wifom, a lie is a lie.
So it sounds like you have been thru the thread. Any other thoughts?
On June 13 2015 08:24 Sulfurus wrote: To start off I think n00bKing is the towniest person in this game period. Almost all of his posts are there to benefit town with either advice or very good questioning and again I think his reasoning on ruXxar is spot on (and much better then what Kick has said). So fmpov this make ruXx look really good and bats/kick look terrible (ruxx has also done a lot since that looks really towny in my eyes whereas kick and bats haven't).
Moving on there is also the whole conflict between Wave and Geript caused by his shitty read on Moosy (which was sheeped by Bats even though geript himself has changed his mind). I think this interaction makes Wave look pretty good and bats once again doesn't however he has since changed his vote to Rels.
Speaking of which the reason he is even voting Rels is because of a read by Trfel (looking back he was also one of the first to push scum on ruXx).
So they may not be the strongest town reads on those I called town but I think you guys are right and bats really is playing differently this game.
##Vote: Batsnacks
So you have a couple townreads and read bats scum, is that correct?
Bats is showing himself a little more townie lately, would you agree or no?
On June 13 2015 08:24 Sulfurus wrote: To start off I think n00bKing is the towniest person in this game period. Almost all of his posts are there to benefit town with either advice or very good questioning and again I think his reasoning on ruXxar is spot on (and much better then what Kick has said). So fmpov this make ruXx look really good and bats/kick look terrible (ruxx has also done a lot since that looks really towny in my eyes whereas kick and bats haven't).
Moving on there is also the whole conflict between Wave and Geript caused by his shitty read on Moosy (which was sheeped by Bats even though geript himself has changed his mind). I think this interaction makes Wave look pretty good and bats once again doesn't however he has since changed his vote to Rels.
Speaking of which the reason he is even voting Rels is because of a read by Trfel (looking back he was also one of the first to push scum on ruXx).
So they may not be the strongest town reads on those I called town but I think you guys are right and bats really is playing differently this game.
##Vote: Batsnacks
So you have a couple townreads and read bats scum, is that correct?
Bats is showing himself a little more townie lately, would you agree or no?
Who would you like to lynch besides Bats?
What about batsnacks' posting is towny? Self-meta?
On June 13 2015 07:23 n00bKing wrote: I'm confused about why you expect people to think you're Town? Can you help with that?
Well you haven't given me anything that I haven't responded to and you haven't brought anything new to the ongoing case on me in a long time so... I'm just assuming that you stopped scum reading me and forgot to switch your vote. Or you haven't decided who to switch to yet.
Okay. Well nope, I continue to agree with you that you're a reasonably good lynch target for Day 1. Also, you're aware that the player you're voting against now was not anywhere on your "would lynch" list, an hour ago? Trfel really turned your whole world upside down that quickly?
Yes he did Trfel makes awesome cases. Also I made that list before I started reading filters. If you follow the thread you can verify that.
Do you think this is just a pocket or he is mafia?
On June 14 2015 09:49 scott31337 wrote: I want to re-read Sulf and Rels again among others.
On June 14 2015 09:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I quite like lynching Scot.
What would your reasons for this be?
5. That list post without any explanation. After I asked, he gave some one liners to explain each scum leans he has. His scum lean on ruxxar is not explained, given that he stated that he has a town lean on him before.
I wanted to let the town know how I was feeling at that time - so this makes me scummy? I don't see where you are going from this.
On June 13 2015 08:40 Rels wrote: Alright scott I don't see your posts as scummy. Could you comment on this list post of yours:
On June 13 2015 07:29 scott31337 wrote: Who I'm liking so far -
Wave Trfel n00bKing Damdred Oats
Probably wouldn't lynch today - Rels Kickstart
Could Lynch - Batsnacks Geript MoosyDoosy Sulfurus RuXxar
Could you please add justifications for the "could lynch" nominees ?
Batsnacks - Been on the wagon most of the day and play is different then his normal town. His last few posts have been slightly better though so that's why I haven't voted him yet. Geript - Hasn't taken much of a stance - his list post wasn't that great - He's a good mafia player but really has a IDGAF mode this game so far. MoosyDoosy - pretty down the line middle - the "Sulfurus is the easiest to make a case" post, "wishy-washy" Sulfurus - has like four posts - unsure if he's legit AFK/IRL or just shitting the bed - and none of them were that great, and quick start vote. Probably leaning the most ATM RuXxar-3/4's of his thread is about liars and and the rest is pretty blah - Hopefully he'll show up tonight.
Before this list post, here is the only time he gives his opinion on ruxxar:
On June 12 2015 11:33 MoosyDoosy wrote: ^ Also Kickstart, I wouldn't read too much into ruXx's initial post where he's rambling about slapping/daydreaming about Mafia. It might have been from an attempt to identify himself as a non-aggressor to the Mafia so that when night time comes around, they don't kill him. If the game went on for longer, people would also suspect ruXx more giving the Mafia an easy kill. This actually happens a ton in real life Mafia but it's clear it's totally different online at this point.
Also, going back to his post where he "misses the interaction" which is right after his rambling, it's pretty clear that ruXx is not paying attention whatsoever. As a newbie he was probably just as excited as I was about remaining passive which is why he didn't notice the err in his post. Just the fact that it seems he has no idea whatsoever about what he's saying during his rambling just shows this too.
I'll look through the rest of your points, but I'll try and provide a "newbie perspective." Either way, it looks like he wised up real fast and stopped being as frantic and energetic in his posts.
On June 12 2015 11:38 MoosyDoosy wrote: Yeah, the more I read of ruXx's initial posts, the more it seems he's thinking in terms of a real life Mafia game as well as tryharding a bit.
Him intercepting a question was him tryharding a basic read and him supporting lying is from a real life Mafia mindset since lying is much more common in real life.
The last two posts that you point out are kind of shady but even then they err on the side of newbie to online Mafia. Overall I wouldn't vote him just yet until we get more evidence.
Wow moosy.
I have to give you 5 stars for this read. It's like you're inside my head or something. I had goosebumps reading this since it was so spot on.
You are absolutely right that my only exposure to mafia has been through watching the TI qualifiers hub, and later watching all stars mafia on youtube.
I really wanted to emulate the dynamic of a live environment, and went in trying to actively counter some of the things i picked up that a mafia would do.
From watching those live mafia games I learned that the number 1 trait of a mafia is to be silent. They would bide their time and look for arguments to bandwagon onto, often avoid getting into heated arguments if possible, and when attacked they would try to deflect onto another person.
I admit I am very excited to go out playing my first mafia game, and overracted by claiming my role before day 1 post(I did not know that this was frowned upon).
Another thing that I learned is that it doesn't matter if you are mafia or not, as long as you contribute to try solving the case, then it's good to keep people around just in case they are town, because then in the largest portion of games they would be a boon to you as a town.
This is Rexxar's best post. The goosebumps part sounds so legitimate and would be extremely creative to fake from the posts he made earlier. Slight town read
6. This post. This is such a bad post. Either you say what's different or you don't say anything at all.
I wanted to make it a point, but because your name is included and probably the reason you commented on it - I'll elaborate. KS had a lot of critical analysis, was being mostly scumread and I read him as town because I saw it in him. It feels the opposite this game. It's ongoing so I won't get any more into it at this time. Although I got lynched - you were a lot different in that game on your D1. You are starting to show parts of that game now, unlike KS. + Show Spoiler +
On June 13 2015 07:37 scott31337 wrote: KS and Rels are playing a lot different then my last game with either of them, which makes me wonder.
7. Voted geript 40 minutes before the deadline, without ever referencing him before. In his lynch list, Sulfu was the scummier. Two hours before EOD, he said he would lynch me over Sulfu. I don't even know when the fucking deadline was, including the rest. There's a post on this already - I'd probably be modkilled if I didn't vote. Batsnacks's case look like he believed in it, BS looked townie, I believed in it and sheeped it. Oats thinks to do this would be ballsy as mafia - and I would agree - you think it's reason in a case. hmmm.
Rels is generally throwing around suspicions on everything. His townread on ruXxar changed after it was clear that the push on ruXxar wasn't going anywhere. He's scumreading people already being scumread by others, and multiple times he uses other people's posts to justify increasing his own suspicions of other people. + Show Spoiler [Examples] +
Criticizing MoosyDoosy's opening post (geript already did this) Suspicious of batsnacks (common suspicion), geript (WaveofShadow already said this), and MoosyDoosy (geript) Agrees with the suspicion I voiced on MoosyDoosy Immediately asked geript for his reason for being suspicious of scott31337, suddenly is more suspicious of him himself (see my previous post)
It seems like Rels is like a leaf in the wind, following thread sentiment, jumping on whatever works. He townreads people who are being townread already, he scumreads people who are being scumread, and only changes when the thread sentiment shifts.
The one major departure from this trend is when he townreads batsnacks. He did this before Damdred jumped in. This is a pretty big change in his read, and against the thread sentiment. However, I think that the way that Rels jumps on whatever suspicion is available every other time in the thread is quite telling.
I can get aboard this and feeling better then a Sulf lynch - you pulled a lot of work Trfel. You the man!
K so to begin with, Rels and Oats are the first two on. Circumstances: Rels - came up with sorta-novel reasons to vote Geript once I was already off of him. This is probably actually a point in his favour overall as it was probably easier to do so while I was on him (though then again maybe it's just because he wasn't on while all my shit with him was going down? meh. He also asks me why I stopped voting him) The vote itself isn't bad is what I'm saying here.
Oats - Just switched on to him with no exposition as I mentioned earlier. When asked his response was:
On June 14 2015 10:16 Oatsmaster wrote: WHat you want wave?
Geript flipped town. Sucks. Move on.
If you are asking why Geript as opposed to other people, basically what I explained earlier. He didn't post before I slept so yeah, that's where my read was.
On June 13 2015 11:37 Oatsmaster wrote: I'm scum reading sulfurus because you are sleeping people onto bats, means you don't really tthink bats is mafia, but your town reads do so you value their opinion over yours.
Bats isn't gonna shit up the thread lol, that's an empty threat. I was totally right about geript switching off moose btw. I think geript is easily mafia.
This is believable actually, and he had a good reason to switch I suppose, I just didn't bother to look back initially when accusing him. This also fits with his 'more-likely-townplay' of switching reads around constantly.
Now comes the shitstorm. I'm fine with Bat's vote so I'm not going to bother here. Important to note though that he already has 3 people on him when Bats votes so scum can now see this is as a likely mislynch.
Trfel - First to jump on the wake of Bat's 'discovery.' Eh. On looking through I thought he was on Rels all day and then dropped his amazing case instantly in favor of even after this post:
On June 14 2015 04:14 Trfel wrote: Ugh, I just don't quite feel right about lynching geript or Damdred. They're both incredible players, and it's the weekend, so it's unfair to expect normal activity levels from them.
##vote Rels
But he was onto batsnacks as well at one point. It does kinda look as though he almost doesn't believe his own case at times because of his initial dropoff from Rels onto bats, then as bats lost ground back onto rels again and onto Geript. He does put a LOT of effort into his rels push when he is on him though so at the same time it seems doubtful that this is a half-assed push where he was just looking for an out. Not sold either on this one. Also liked his activity around the lynch and his first post after flip.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Bats...I am so proud of you
Interested to hear what bats himself thinks here of the people who sheeped him actually. I take it you were too excited it about your lynch at the time to see all of this going down?
Moosy - Fine with him. Has a monster filter, constant discussion of the lynch while it was going down.
Ruxxar - Ah, I remember pointing this one out before.
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
Here is me saying sulfurus's post is bold, I ask why mafia would post such a thing: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
Here geript explains that sometimes mafia like to defend town poorly. geript knows that Rels is town, yet he would sheep Trfel's case on Rels: + Show Spoiler +
On June 14 2015 05:00 Sulfurus wrote: I didn't want to say anything about trfel before because his vote on Bats was protecting me but he is just straight up wrong on Rels. He makes a post here where he says rels made a bad town read on ruXxar even though (IMO) ruXx is one of the towniest players in the game.
He also keeps saying that Rels is tunneled on Plant's only post and he basically dismisses the rest of his filter when in fact it's really good and shows a town who is focused on trying to solve the game.
This is bold. Why does mafia post this?
It's not uncommon for mafia to defend town badly. Especially newer mafia.
Wow bats... I'm speechless.
I had you and geript as my top two scum.
I refuse to believe that you would bus your own scum teammate this hard. You really redeemed yourself here in my eyes.
I'll have to change my alignment of you to town and change my vote to geript.
##Unvote batsnacks ##Vote geript
I also remember not liking his post after the flip. Just looks like he's making more excuses and feigning...something. Ugh I know I've been calling him town due to the moosy business but the more I watch those two the more I think SOMETHING has to be going on here. Ruxxar more likely scum than moosy by a huge factor.
Scott - Actually just ninjavoted. Didn't even say a thing about Geript. That's interesting. Ballsy for scum but apparently nobody picked up on it so far?
Personally thinking Damdred and Ruxxar come out looking the worst on geript train analysis. Both jump on after the train has begun to gather steam and help to push it past the crucial point (Damdred more so than even Ruxxar) But ruxxar's posting around it was pretty terrible while Damdred's is minimal and while not great, I COULD just see it coming from non-self-conscious town.
I'm kind of glad I did, when I came back to the thread the flip was already there. I could've got modkilled for failure to vote with the hour earlier confusion. Batsnacks case made sense at the time and I sheeped it.
8. This post were I put the theory of moosy and scott being mafia for acclaiming noobking's super play, but not following his last will. This is kinda weak on its own, but in addition to the other points that theory makes sense. Conclusion: Mafia
So I put the replies in bold above, just so they aren't missed, people have been before. You have put a lot of effort in to your thoughts - espically how you have the same thoughts on Kickstart. Let me finish reading the thread. ##Unvote
EPT
