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Newbie Student Mafia XII
Rsoultin and Rels is co-hosting. Questions may be sent to either of them or myself.
Night actions should be sent to all hosts!
+ Show Spoiler [Important posts] +
Introduction:
Mafia is an educated guessing game of epic proportions. The objective of the game is to lynch or kill all mafia members before they outnumber the rest of the town. It's much like a game of poker because mafia members are also part of the town during the day and may manipulate the vote to their liking. If the mafia at any time outnumber or equal the townspeople, they win. The town's goal is to lynch all the members of the mafia.
The game is typically very active, so the thread may grow large quickly. However, it is essential to read the thread to play the game. If you do not have the time or patience to read the whole thread, do not play.
Rules:
Cheating:
Cheating includes (but is not limited to):
1. Posting after death. You may have one polite goodbye post, but it may not contain any potentially game-changing information.
2. Ruining the game by doing something like hand out your mafia's member list to the town.
3. Logging on to someone else's account to get their role or looking over someone's shoulder to get their role.
4. Comparing role PM times to determine roles.
5. Posting screenshots of your inbox.
6. Posting any PM you receive from a host.
7. Getting yourself modkilled to help your team. Your non-majority-decided death may not be used as a bargaining chip.
8. Signing up more than once using smurf accounts.
9. Betting items outside of the game in exchange for in-game benefits.
10. Sharing accounts with other players. Only you may post on your account.
11. You may not reveal or hint about the identity of your coach. You may not refer to any idea, course of action, etc. as something that was suggested by your coach.
If you feel that any action you are considering may be against the spirit of the game, it is best to contact a host and ensure it is allowed before proceeding.
Posting:
Host Color:
The color blue is reserved for the hosts of the game to make our posts easy to notice. Please do not use it.
Questions:
All questions to the hosts must be sent as PMs, do not ask in the thread. You are not allowed to say in thread you’re going to ask the hosts something, and you are not allowed to share your answer with the thread. If the question is a clarification all town needs to know, the hosts will post an announcement in the thread.
Activity:
You must post in this thread once per day/night cycle and vote every day while you are alive. Roughly speaking, this equates to a bare minimum of one post per 36 hours. If you fail to do so, you will be modkilled or replaced.
Smurfs:
Smurfs must PM the host because TL doesn't allow multiple accounts otherwise. If the host is unaware of smurfs, you (and/or your smurf) can be banned for having multiple accounts
Spam:
Spam is not tolerated, nor is any off-topic material. Do not discuss Proleague here. Do not talk about Starcraft II here. Play Mafia here.
Editing:
Editing is not allowed for any reason. Editing will result in a warning. After that, you will be modkilled. This is the one part of the site where it is okay to be double posting, even triple-posting. "Editing" includes indirect editing like linking an image, then editing the image. Editing your profile or signature are allowed, but if you edit them for any game-related reasons (ie, breadcrumbing, sending messages, etc) this will be considered out-of-thread posting and will be punished.
Inappropriate posts and use of the report post link:
If you want to post something insulting or inappropriate and know the TL mods would have a problem with it elsewhere, don't post it here. If you do, a host will warn you or modkill you and request that you be banned from future games. The hosts have the final say on what is inappropriate. If you do not like how someone is talking to you, please PM a host, GMarshal, or Mig before involving the TL moderation staff or using the report post link. If you are unsatisfied with how the situation is resolved, then you can appeal to the TL staff normally.
Ban discussions:
Please wait until this game is over to talk about modkills and bans resulting from this game.
Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
This also means that you cannot leave the game without a good reason without a ban. These situations will be dealt with on a case by case basis. PM your host if you need to leave the game.
Out of thread communication:
It is common for mafia to use a medium outside of TL such as QuickTopics or IRC to communicate during the game. Players who have not explicitly been given permission to communicate outside the thread are not allowed to attempt to infiltrate such communication channels. Players who are not mafia are not allowed to communicate about this game outside of the thread.
Voting rules:
1. Voting is done by posting in the separate voting thread. Votes posted in this thread will not be counted.
2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: Kavdragon or ##Vote Kavdragon. Votes must be in bold, and votes not written in the correct fashion will not be counted.
3. No conditional voting.
4. You may vote only for other living players in the thread. You may not vote for yourself.
5. This game uses plurality voting, so whoever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. There is no minimum number of votes required to lynch someone. If there is a tie for most votes, whoever most recently had more votes than the other is the person who is up for the lynch.
6. The person who is up for the lynch is whoever has the most votes. Bringing another player up to that number of votes doesn't put him up for the lynch; he has to have the most votes.
7. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Signups:
7 spots in this game are reserved for new players*. The other 6 spots in this game are open to anyone, but new players still take priority and can possibly bump other players from these spots. These numbers are flexible, but the goal is to bring new members in and give them a chance to play. If you're a forum regular, please bear in mind there will be newbies in this game and act appropriately to introduce them to TL Mafia.
*new player - played in 3 or fewer previous TL mafia games. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible
Signup for the game by posting /in in the thread if you are new, or /in: Open if you are not.
Game-specific rules:
Modkills:
This game follows the TL Mafia Ban List. If you are modkilled, your punishment will go beyond being eliminated from this game. Please refer to it for questions about your punishment. If you want to use this game to sit out your ban, please post in the Ban List.
Replacements
This game uses replacements. Players who are inactive may be replaced by other players.
Clues:
There are no clues.
PMs
PMs and out of thread communication are not allowed in this game, unless your role explicitly allows them.
Time Cycle:
This game will follow a 48 hour day/24 hour night cycle. Any votes or night actions up to and including the deadline will count. One minute after the deadline, the game will be put on hold until the night post is posted. The deadline for each cycle will be 22:00 GMT (+00:00).
Credits:
Thanks to Blazinghand who I stole this post and the setup from. And every active member of the TL mafia community.
On February 20 2013 21:59 Acrofales wrote: Newbie-specific stuff 1.It's already in the rules, but remember, no editing. If you feel you must correct your post, please make a second post to clarify your statements. You may put EBWOP ("Edit by way of post," a handy acronym invented by semioldguy) at the beginning of your post to indicate that you are clearing up a point you made. If your EBWOP post is several posts after your original, please quote your original post in your EBWOP post for the sake of clarity. 2. Only sign up if you know you will have the time available to properly play the game. It is essential that players remain active in a newbie game, so only /in if you are able to play to your fullest. 3. If there is any sort of issue, you are unsure about some mechanic, or you are just wondering if your devilish scheme is even allowed, feel free to PM me, or ask in-thread with green text. Don't feel shy; these games are meant to be a place to learn and be open. 4. Behave as gentlemen (or ladies). Things get heated here, but personal attacks will not be acceptable, and will be dealt with accordingly. Remember, this is a game; have fun and happy scumhunting! 5. Please do not talk about any ongoing games either in-game or pre-game. This can affect other games and is unacceptable. Please do not refer to outside-of- thread activity of players in this thread. 6. If you receive coaching, don't tell town about it. 7. glhf!
>>> Link to Guides! <<<
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Game setup information:
This is a mafia game for 13 players. 3 players will be randomly selected as mafia.
The town's win condition:
The town wins when all mafia are eliminated.
The mafia's win condition:
The mafia wins if the number of mafia players alive is equal or greater to the number of town players alive and town night actions cannot reverse this.
When a player dies in the game, the player's alignment (that is, which team the player wins with), and role will be revealed. This reveal is guaranteed to be accurate.
This game uses a variable open setup. When the game begins, one of the following setups will be chosen:
A) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
B) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
C) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
D) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
The mafia will be informed as to which setup is chosen, but the town will not!
Role descriptions:
Vanilla Townie
You have no special abilities, but your voice and your vote are just as important as anyone else's. You win with the town.
Town Cop / Detective
Every night, you may choose a player to investigate. You will visit the player and receive "Town-aligned" or "Mafia-aligned" as a result. Your results are guaranteed to be accurate. You win with the town.
Town Doctor
Every night, you may choose a player other than yourself to protect. You will visit the player, and if the mafia attempt to kill a player you are protecting on the same night, the kill will fail. Neither you nor the target will be notified if you prevent a kill. You win with the town.
Town Vigilante
Once per game, at night, you may select a player to kill. That player is shot overnight and dies at the start of the next day. If your target was also shot by mafia, or was protected by a doctor or veteran status, your bullet is lost. If you were roleblocked, you don't use your bullet and can try againt he next night. You win with the town.
Town Veteran
You have a bulletproof vest that can absorb one bullet. This means you need to be shot twice in order to die: once to destroy the vest, once to kill you. If you are roleblocked, however, your bulletproof vest doesn't work that night. You win with the town.
Mafia Roleblocker
Every night, you may choose a player to roleblock, which will prevent them from performing actions and visits that night. The roleblocked player will be notified, even if s/he is vanilla. Every night, the mafia team must choose a player to kill. You may communicate with other members of your mafia team outside of the game thread at any time. You win with the mafia.
The mafia team is:
A quicktopic has been provided for your team:
The setup that is being used for this game is: (A/B/C/D)
Mafia Goon
Every night, the mafia team must choose a player to kil;.You may communicate with other members of your mafia team outside of the game thread at any time. You win with the mafia.
The mafia team is:
A quicktopic has been provided for your team:
The setup that is being used for this game is: (A/B/C/D)
Mafia Godfather
You return "town" to cop checks, as though you were a vanilla townie. Every night, the mafia team must choose a player to kill. You may communicate with other members of your mafia team outside of the game thread at any time. You win with the mafia.
The mafia team is:
A quicktopic has been provided for your team:
The setup that is being used for this game is: (A/B/C/D)
Sample PMs:
Vanilla Town Town Cop Town Vigilante Town Veteran Town Doctor Mafia Goon
The mafia team is:
A quicktopic has been provided for your team:
The setup that is being used for this game is: (A/B/C/D) Mafia Roleblocker
The mafia team is:
A quicktopic has been provided for your team:
The setup that is being used for this game is: (A/B/C/D)
If there is any confusion about your role PM or the setup, PM me or your coach if you have one.
Notifications:
Roleblocks are always notified, even if the target is vanilla town.
Veteran saves are not notified.
Doctor saves are not notified.
FAQs:
Q: Can good guys communicate outside of the thread? What about just the Cop / Detective?
A: The good guys can't communicate outside of the thread. This includes the Cop.
Q: I'm confused about some role names that are used interchangeably.
A: VT = Vanilla Townie = Town Vanilla. Cop = DT = Detective. Medic = Doc = Doctor = Angel. Scum = Mafia. RB = Roleblocker
Q: Does something extra bad happen to the Doctor if s/he visits a mafia player?
A: The Doctor has no penalty for saving a mafia player
Q: I want to talk about coaching, or have a question about coaching. Where should I ask this?
A: PM me. Do not post in the thread about coaching.
Q: Should I talk about this game anywhere other than this thread?
A: No. You can talk in your special Scum Quicktopic if you are Mafia. You can also talk with your coach. Otherwise, do not mention this game. Don't mention it in passing. Don't mention that you're alive. Don't mention that you think your case is good. People in this game read all parts of the forums here on TL, so if you go over the Sc2 Strategy and say "I'm a bad mafia dude in this game" you will get found out.
Q: Should I talk about this game anywhere other than this thread if I'm dead?
A: When you die I will provide you with a quicktopic for dead players to hang out in and discuss the game.
Q: Can town decide to "sleep" or vote for a no-lynch?
A: You are allowed to vote for a no-lynch.
Q: The deadline passed and the Host hasn't finished writing the Day post or Night post. During these minutes between the lynch ending, or between the night ending, and the start of the next phase, can I talk?
A: Do not talk if the day or night post is late. After the lynch or the night kills have been 100% determined, in theory the next day should start instantly. In practice, it takes me some time to compose the new post, and during this time you should quietly wait for the flip. Typically there's a delay of between 1 and 10 minutes.
Q: Can we claim our roles or night actions and their results?
A: You may claim anything you want to, including fake claims. It is up to the other players whether they will believe your claim.
Q: Can I post a screenshot of my role PM? Can we compare formatting or timestamps of messages from the hosts?
A: You may not directly quote or screenshot anything from outside the thread. This also implies that things like comparing PM timestamps or formatting are disallowed. You may not ask things like "was your role PM colored green?".
Q: Are the teams balanced based on newbie/vet status?
A: Nope, they are assigned at random.
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/obs
Sorry don't have time to actually play till like mid July.
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/in:Open but I would like a coach please
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Will wait to see if 1) I'm forced to drop out of Gaiden and 2) if this fills up on time soon after the 4th of July weekend.
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I've only played "werewolves" alot in real life, but I think this game is very similar. 
I'd like to try!
/in
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I have a question about this :
"*new player - played in 3 or fewer previous TL mafia games. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible"
I have read this in multiple newbie threads, but isn't it : you aren't eligible if it is your 4th game? I'm confused
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On June 30 2015 16:39 WonnaPlay wrote:
I have a question about this :
"*new player - played in 3 or fewer previous TL mafia games. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible"
I have read this in multiple newbie threads, but isn't it : you aren't eligible if it is your 4th game? I'm confused
If it is your 4th I let you sign up in a newbie slot
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On June 30 2015 16:39 WonnaPlay wrote:
I have a question about this :
"*new player - played in 3 or fewer previous TL mafia games. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible"
I have read this in multiple newbie threads, but isn't it : you aren't eligible if it is your 4th game? I'm confused
If this is your 4th TL mafia game, it means you played in 3 TL mafia games before.
If you played in 0, 1, 2 or 3 TL mafia games before this one, you are eligible.
Therefore if this is your 4th TL mafia game, you are eligible.
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So, shouldn't it be ; 'you are still eligible'?
I understand what you're saying, but it feels like such an unnatural sentence to me.
Maybe my English is just messed up
Thanks anyways
edit;
@Onegu, it's my 1st 
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On June 30 2015 16:54 WonnaPlay wrote:
So, shouldn't it be ; 'you are still eligible'?
Maybe ... Enligsh ain't my mother tongue so I have no idea (=
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new player - played in 3 or fewer previous TL mafia games. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible
This is fine, it is really clear if you read it carefully.
I think your brain sees 3 and it likes to make that assumption that 3 is the important number, but the way the text reads makes total sense. Especially with the word "previous" clarifying that it is mafia games PRIOR to this one that you are counting.
That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible
effectively reads the same as
That means if this would be your 4th game, you are still eligible
So both ways of saying it are fine. It's a clarification of the first point anyways which imo doesn't even need to be there.
My Point?
WonnaPlay is arguing semantics, and is clearly mafia.
##VOTE: WonnaPlay
WIFOM
+ Show Spoiler +Or am I mafia for pushing on his arguing of semantics? + Show Spoiler +We'll never know... I'm not playing this game!
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On June 30 2015 18:39 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +new player - played in 3 or fewer previous TL mafia games. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible This is fine, it is really clear if you read it carefully. I think your brain sees 3 and it likes to make that assumption that 3 is the important number, but the way the text reads makes total sense. Especially with the word "previous" clarifying that it is mafia games PRIOR to this one that you are counting. effectively reads the same as So both ways of saying it are fine. It's a clarification of the first point anyways which imo doesn't even need to be there. My Point? WonnaPlay is arguing semantics, and is clearly mafia.
##VOTE: WonnaPlayWIFOM + Show Spoiler +Or am I mafia for pushing on his arguing of semantics? + Show Spoiler +We'll never know... I'm not playing this game!
My brain sees the sentences as contradicting;
"You're a new player if you have played 0-3 times mafia."
"You are eligible when it is your 4th game."
I understand your explanation, it just tickles my sad Dutch brain.
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
Sounds like you might be mixing up "eligible" and "ineligible"
/obs
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On June 30 2015 21:10 WonnaPlay wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2015 18:39 Tictock wrote:new player - played in 3 or fewer previous TL mafia games. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible This is fine, it is really clear if you read it carefully. I think your brain sees 3 and it likes to make that assumption that 3 is the important number, but the way the text reads makes total sense. Especially with the word "previous" clarifying that it is mafia games PRIOR to this one that you are counting. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible effectively reads the same as That means if this would be your 4th game, you are still eligible So both ways of saying it are fine. It's a clarification of the first point anyways which imo doesn't even need to be there. My Point? WonnaPlay is arguing semantics, and is clearly mafia.
##VOTE: WonnaPlayWIFOM + Show Spoiler +Or am I mafia for pushing on his arguing of semantics? + Show Spoiler +We'll never know... I'm not playing this game! My brain sees the sentences as contradicting; "You're a new player if you have played 0-3 times mafia." "You are eligible when it is your 4th game." I understand your explanation, it just tickles my sad Dutch brain.
The two statements are not mutually exclusive.
If you have played mafia zero, once, twice or thrice then you can enter. The second statement is simply clarifying that if you enter this as your fourth game, that is allowed.
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It could be better written, though. I think that's what the Dutch guy is trying to say
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On July 01 2015 02:14 GlowingBear wrote:
It could be better written, though. I think that's what the Dutch guy is trying to say
Copy paste it is what it is
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On July 01 2015 04:21 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 02:14 GlowingBear wrote:
It could be better written, though. I think that's what the Dutch guy is trying to say Copy paste it is what it is
Not a criticism, though
/coach
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Looking forward to seeing the setup.
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On July 01 2015 02:14 GlowingBear wrote:
It could be better written, though. I think that's what the Dutch guy is trying to say
As a native English speaker I think it is written very clearly and is fine. I can't comment as to how it might read to a non-native english speaker though.
I'm not seeing what the confusion is though...
If I've played 0 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 1st game.
If I've played 1 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 2nd game.
If I've played 2 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 3rd game.
If I've played 3 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 4th game.
In all those situations I am considered a newbie because I've played 3 or fewer games prior to this one.
Anyways, this horse is already pretty beaten so I'll leave it at that.
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/in for now
edit: open player obviously
I'll try and make do without a coach and see how I do.
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/in
(Can't have a Newbie game without THE n00b!)
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/in
Plz no spamerino threaderino :-/
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5 newbies, 2 vets in so far, and 2 coaches needed gogogogogogogogogo <3
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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Oh you ignored my /coach, k
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On July 01 2015 02:14 GlowingBear wrote:
It could be better written, though. I think that's what the Dutch guy is trying to say
Which one?!
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On July 03 2015 16:39 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 02:14 GlowingBear wrote:
It could be better written, though. I think that's what the Dutch guy is trying to say Which one?!
The one that didn't ask "which one?!"
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Can I save a noobie slot for my boyfriend?
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Can't see that it's a good idea who have people who know each other irl in the same game?
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"Hey, honey, do that thing you know I like."
"I will if you tell me your role."
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We agreed zero talk of forum mafia outside of thread 100% (unless we're masons or mafia together).
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If it's a big problem or issue, I don't mind hydraing with him or shadowing
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On July 04 2015 10:50 NydusHerMain wrote:
We agreed zero talk of forum mafia outside of thread 100% (unless we're masons or mafia together).
Cool, does he have experience with the game?
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On July 04 2015 10:51 plotspot wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2015 10:50 NydusHerMain wrote:
We agreed zero talk of forum mafia outside of thread 100% (unless we're masons or mafia together). Cool, does he have experience with the game?
He has 2 years video mafia experience but zero forum mafia experience.
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/in for now (wanna play with n00bking <3)
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Not a problem to play with people you know if you don't talk about the game.
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Actually I'll /out.
I don't think I want to overload myself with 2 games, since the other game is REALLY big.
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On July 04 2015 10:15 NydusHerMain wrote:
Can I save a noobie slot for my boyfriend?
Its fine he can play, Rsoul played a game with her brother. Just dont cheat and we will be fine.
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On July 04 2015 11:40 Holyflare wrote:
Not a problem to play with people you know if you don't talk about the game.
lol a lot of us are ts junkies as it is. and yeah, i've played with my brother more than once. it's just an integrity thing xP
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I can coach in case it's okay i am online mainly only ~7-10 GMT.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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Come on people - lets get this going before HTS has to go away...
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/in
Get ready for the revolution guys
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I wish the best of luck to my alignment
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This will be our third game together NHM - wonder if we'll be able to do the Damdred/ritoky 'soul read' yet.
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On July 08 2015 02:02 Fidei86 wrote:
This will be our third game together NHM - wonder if we'll be able to do the Damdred/ritoky 'soul read' yet.
Your last 2 games were like polar opposites and both town so probably not xD
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My second was only different at the start, when the thread was going 1,000,000 mph. I feel like I stepped back up to where I was once the numbers slimmed.
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I also got scumread early on in both games. So if you're town reading me early on, it might be a bad sign. But I probably should stop WIFOMing myself.
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Bump onegu 
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Bumperino. Let's get this game going so NHM can redeem herself for her throws in the last game ;-)
I tease, I tease.
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Bleh, apologies if I have it wrong NHM.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On July 08 2015 19:05 Lord Tolkien wrote:
*his
imo
blatant homo
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On July 08 2015 20:10 marvellosity wrote:blatant homo
guilty >_<
and so are you
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On July 08 2015 20:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2015 20:10 marvellosity wrote:On July 08 2015 19:05 Lord Tolkien wrote:
*his
imo blatant homo guilty >_< and so are you
I meant NHM, based on a couple of posts i saw. i may be exaggerating :p
but yes, me and you too, lol
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i was aware
so many gheys in this thread right now
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Your internet gaydar is clearly strong
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I hope all this bumping is getting noticed.
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I'd love to join but I'm afraid gaiden takes all of my attention
/obs however
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Good work everyone I'm really grasping the concepts of mafia rn
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On July 09 2015 05:36 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Good work everyone I'm really grasping the concepts of mafia rn
young padawan
mafia is 90% shitposting
10% trying to make that shitposting look like shitposting a town would post as opposed to shitposting scum would post
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
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Alright confim pms going out and will start tomorrow
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I am terribly sorry i can't possibly coach.
I jsut found out i have to do basically 2,5 guys work for the next week.
Means no time.
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Scott is in this game? Time to get my tunnel back on XD
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
Put me in as a coach. I can coach up to 2 players, or scum.
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Kelsier has outed we have one more slot open. Also with rayn not coaching and a large number of newbies even with BH coaching we could use one more.
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On July 09 2015 07:12 Onegu wrote:
Kelsier has outed we have one more slot open. Also with rayn not coaching and a large number of newbies even with BH coaching we could use one more.
On July 06 2015 12:27 Lord Tolkien wrote:
/coach
or
/co-host
cough
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Can't coach me if you can't spell my name bud
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On July 09 2015 07:44 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Can't coach me if you can't spell my name bud
You're the buster who mis-spelled Gandhi, jeff.
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Canada11355 Posts
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Don't sit out then, come play!
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Have 10/12 confirmed but still need a in
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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So I have 12/12 confirmed. But unfortunately F word dude cannot in twice so as soon as we have one more in we will start.
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F word dude is the best nick for him ever
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On July 10 2015 11:16 Onegu wrote:
So I have 12/12 confirmed. But unfortunately F word dude cannot in twice so as soon as we have one more in we will start.
I believe F word dude was saying 13/13 because Kelsier came back /in after earlier saying he was /out.
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Ok then we will start today
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When should we expect role PMs? :-)
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Imma be a bit late to the start but should be back on 1 or 2 hours after it. c: Hopefully not a problem. Or, you could, you know, say it's a 100% scum tell.
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PMs may go out at 1800 and game start at 1900 we will see
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Ill get the PMs out in the next half hour and we can start at 1800
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Role PMs Going out now stop talking
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ALL PMs ARE OUT. Day post in 5
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DAY 1
Your votes go here
Day ends in
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Fidei is playing dota, he's probably confirmed town.
All Dota players are confirmed town. 
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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KSC is also a dota player, so far that's three.....alright....who else?
Don't know the newbies that well....
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On July 11 2015 07:03 KelsierSC wrote:
nice flavour
^^
<3 Onegu
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Alright newbies here's a lesson then...
The key to joining the town circle - if you aren't doing so already - is to start playing dota
If you already do, name your three favourite heroes.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
or just post , that is sometimes a good idea
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Hey boyz
I hate DotA so lets all keep a cool head
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On July 11 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:
YAY confirmed town <3
If only posting first did somehow make you confirmed town. That would sure make this game a lot easier
So that everyone knows, the only players I know in the game are scott and NHM. I tunnelled scott pretty hard in the game we played together (Holy Guardians) but he was actually town. I null read NHM in HGand he was mafia, then town read him in Himalayas and he was town. I've also chatted a fair bit to HTS, but I don't know how she plays mafia.
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So I guess I'll dive in first, since the game needs to start somewhere.
My opinion on the ideal town environment is that it is one where everyone contributes, but nobody spams. The best way for townies to get town-read by other townies is to be active, to discuss things and to give your opinion freely. If you're lurking as town, you're actively hurting your own team. Even if you don't say much and make it to the later rounds, and even if you solve the game, you're an easy mislynch if your filter is only one or two pages long.
However, at the same time, too much back and forth leads to the thread becoming unmanageable for players with less time -- essentially allowing mafia to hide in amongst the noise. I don't want to over-traffic cop, and I'm hopeful it's not going to be a big problem this game, but ... there it is.
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On July 11 2015 07:07 Half the Sky wrote:Alright newbies here's a lesson then... The key to joining the town circle - if you aren't doing so already - is to start playing dota If you already do, name your three favourite heroes.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bLaHGuc.png)
I might have played a game or two
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I'm cop with a guilty check on noobking
##noobking
get rekt
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My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing
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Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of shitters
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On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing
We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing.
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/says doesn't think spam is going to be a problem
/spam ensues
/facepalm
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 11 2015 10:17 Fidei86 wrote:
/says doesn't think spam is going to be a problem
/spam ensues
/facepalm
such a killjoy
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
and because it's TL
MFW
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jMx1v.jpg)
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Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early
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##Vote: KelsierSC
The meme police, they live inside of the thread
The meme police, they come to me in my bed
The meme police, they're coming to arrest Kelsier, oh, no
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 11 2015 10:47 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
##Vote: KelsierSC
The meme police, they live inside of the thread
The meme police, they come to me in my bed
The meme police, they're coming to arrest Kelsier, oh, no
nice one bellend
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 11 2015 10:47 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
##Vote: KelsierSC
The meme police, they live inside of the thread
The meme police, they come to me in my bed
The meme police, they're coming to arrest Kelsier, oh, no
i'm moving to Norway to live in the mountains ,
Fed's can't touch this
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
![[image loading]](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRYn4nb2QePZitGZjvjVcv56KuWVGYDCiXC00X5WWL52nNtBFLeLw)
i'm guna go here, take a shit load of books anf study chess,
fuck marshall
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
meh fuck this, if you want me to talk i'm in my cabin but i'm not coming out
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On July 11 2015 07:29 Fidei86 wrote:If only posting first did somehow make you confirmed town. That would sure make this game a lot easier So that everyone knows, the only players I know in the game are scott and NHM. I tunnelled scott pretty hard in the game we played together (Holy Guardians) but he was actually town. I null read NHM in HGand he was mafia, then town read him in Himalayas and he was town. I've also chatted a fair bit to HTS, but I don't know how she plays mafia.
Yo I have no clue wtf those acronyms mean can u put like Nydushermain (NHM) the first time you use an acronym so I can understand what you're talking about? Who is HTS?
On a game note, I think it's pretty good if we all say like what our mafia background 1) I don't know anyone except for nydus and 2) i always judge my reads on people against a background of their experience (e.g. easier to read someone new to mafia based on little things they do).
I have played video mafia on DailyMafia for almost two years and have never played forum mafia before. I am basically a god. I am in a clan called the elo angels because im so good and my elo is so high. My day job involves working with and for lawyers every day so i think about thinks pretty logically and might write formally at some points based on my mood. In video mafia I usually pick up on and push on (sometimes minor) logical inconsistencies and ive noticed ive been tunnelling a bit too hard lately so that may happen this game.
My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming.
[purple]Also it allowed if i just put every post I type in purple so taht you guys always know its me?[/purple]
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On July 11 2015 09:14 Fidei86 wrote:
My opinion on the ideal town environment is that it is one where everyone contributes, but nobody spams. The best way for townies to get town-read by other townies is to be active, to discuss things and to give your opinion freely. If you're lurking as town, you're actively hurting your own team. Even if you don't say much and make it to the later rounds, and even if you solve the game, you're an easy mislynch if your filter is only one or two pages long.
However, at the same time, too much back and forth leads to the thread becoming unmanageable for players with less time -- essentially allowing mafia to hide in amongst the noise. I don't want to over-traffic cop, and I'm hopeful it's not going to be a big problem this game, but ... there it is.
Yup. In my last game, I mentioned during Day 1 that this is possibly my favorite part of the General Guide on how to play this game:
Don’t babble. If you speak without having a clear goal in mind, you impede the town and decrease everyone else’s productivity. This paralyzes town analysis and decision-making and allows mafia to hide in the chaos
But there ended up being a fair bit of babbling in that game. There's a lot more of it in Gaiden. And there will probably be plenty of it in this game, if the first couple of pages are any indication. But I appreciate you at least trying.
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On July 11 2015 11:06 TJHuggins wrote: My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming.
TJHuggins wrote:
Who is HTS?
Could be anyone, really!
##Vote: NydusHerMain
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On July 11 2015 11:23 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 11:06 TJHuggins wrote: My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming. Could be anyone, really! ##Vote: NydusHerMain
Your name suddenly makes sense now
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 11 2015 11:38 NydusHerMain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 11:23 n00bKing wrote:On July 11 2015 11:06 TJHuggins wrote: My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming. TJHuggins wrote:
Who is HTS? Could be anyone, really! ##Vote: NydusHerMain Your name suddenly makes sense now
![[image loading]](http://bensbargains.com/thecheckout/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Burn.jpg)
i'm going back to my cabin
I just came down to say this
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@n00bKing dude I already got you
On July 11 2015 09:18 Sulfurus wrote:
I'm cop with a guilty check on noobking
##noobking
get rekt
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Never liked Ashton Kutcher anyways. Good to see my vote was a strong one.
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On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early
Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like?
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In case anyone is interested, the reason why I'm feeling so anti-spam at the moment is that the last game I was in, Himalayas, had 100 pages of filter before day1 had ended. It turned out that two of the scum players had taken it upon themselves to get into shit fights with townies, in order to make the thread totally unmanageable. In practical terms, it meant all the important posts were hidden amongst the noise. I spoke about it a couple of times. I wanted to say it at the start, given that a lot of us are new.
As to why NHM thinks what I said is scummy, I'm guessing because I was a lot more passive at the start of the last two days. That was because Holy Guardians (HG) was my first ever game and Himalayas was the spam fest. This time I feel like I can usefully contribute at the start, at least to trying to set up a good town environment.
I'm not sure that much of what has happened so far is alignment indicative. I agree that Half The Sky's thread entry was a little odd, but I think the opening posts are almost always a little strange ("hi, I'm town" the only sensible thing VT's know, and saying that doesn't move things forward). I think NHM is probably just pressuring me with his vote, although his approach to posting in the thread is a lot different to how he has posted since the game started. I appreciate noobking backing me up re the anti-babble stuff, but not sure that's particularly alignment indicative either.
I'm keen to hear from all the people who haven't spoken yet, honestly.
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A few questions -
noob why the vote on NHM? Can't tell whether your vote is a joke vote or not, the others I can.
Fidei's first posting to me is NAI, he - or anyone for the matter - can talk anti spam.
If you read other games, usually the first 1-2 pages are silly and most people make useless/silly/goofy posts. Sometimes with certain veterans it goes a bit longer than that.
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On TJs question, I've only played forum mafia. I've played on other sites and on TL since Nov 2014 and started hosting in February.
If you look at my profile you can get a sense for my experience on TL. If you go to the database thread for any player who's played at least 1 game here (at least since Kitas last update here) you can also do the same.
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I'm interested in the answer to that as well. I wouldn't say I *know* NHM, but I find it weird he calls me "this guy" when we were happily bantering in the thread before the game started. As I said, it looks just like a pressure vote to me, although that theory falls apart a little considering he hasnt followed it up with any reasoning, or pursued it since.
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@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..)
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Good Morning... Let me wake up a bit more and re-read, but I don't see a whole lot to go on so far that sticks out at me - except a slight town lean on Fidei.
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I looked on the first page to figure out who is even in the game because I'm having a hard time keeping everyone straight. I see "silentwarrior" is living up to his name.
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My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue.
My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about.
On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing.
On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like?
I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure.
just an initial read.
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I also loved how Fidei says its weird the NHM refers to him as "this guy" when they were friendly before the game started.
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On July 11 2015 23:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:
We are all sheep.
On that note imma sheep n00bKing.
##vote NydusHerMain
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On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read.
I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says.
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On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..)
You weren't in the last Newbie Student Mafia game. T.T WaveofShadow and Trfel were the perfect townies from start to end and fooled us all. So I don't really think this is something you should completely put your faith in.
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Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :|
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IN response to this:
On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says.
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On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :|
Exactly what I was thinking. His first post seems to be more of a first page banter post. The second one is asking for clarification although as you say, it leads nowhere. But then again, newer players have a tendency to ask for clarification without having a drive behind it.
Any thoughts on the suspicion of you Ghandi? :3
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NydusHerMain please explain your shift in attitude as well. :3
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Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3
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I agree that it was grokken's town prodding question that got me suspicious of him in the first place.
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@Moosy If you want a monster filter do it yourself.
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On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..)
I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation.
That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742
was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this.
In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell.
The second quote that was called into question -
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148
First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on.
I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does.
I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know).
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@HTS Fair enough. It's difficult to disagree with anything you just posted.
@Scott Where are your thoughts following your reading of the thread? We want to hear from you. Don't make me tunnel you again
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On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :|
The irony here is that it did - although more on the asker of the question (Grokken) than the subject (NHM). In any case I do want to see what NHM says on Fidei's opening or subsequent posts.
Also find it interesting that Sulfurus tells MD to create his big filter, yet he doesnt' comment on anything MD has posted so far nor does he derive a conclusion from the latest quote MD posted about creating a big filter. Usually hanging back like this is a scum tell for a newbie player.
On July 12 2015 04:09 Sulfurus wrote:
@Moosy If you want a monster filter do it yourself.
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On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3
On this quote itself, this could be self-consciousness (a scum tell) or it could be an earnest townie just wanting to play the game, but then again scum wouldn't make this so obvious. Newbie scum....ehhhh probably not. Probably a slight townlean, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know how MD played last game.
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Right now its basically impossible to read into anything effectively, so Day 1 we might as well just flush out all of the lurkers, which I may work on when I get off work in a couple hours.
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On July 12 2015 04:27 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3 On this quote itself, this could be self-consciousness (a scum tell) or it could be an earnest townie just wanting to play the game, but then again scum wouldn't make this so obvious. Newbie scum....ehhhh probably not. Probably a slight townlean, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know how MD played last game.
I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.
Also @Sulfurus, that's a terrible post. There's no way for me to make a monster filter without a conversation except by spamming which won't help us in any way.
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On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know).
I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for.
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^ But I did read it that same way btw.
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On July 11 2015 21:15 Half the Sky wrote:
noob why the vote on NHM? Can't tell whether your vote is a joke vote or not, the others I can.
If the vote were a joke, I'm not sure what about it is supposed to be funny. Like...what's the joke?
And my joke votes wouldn't go in the voting thread, and that one is in the voting thread. If you want to see a fake vote, you can look at the one on me from Sulfurus. He wastes space with a fakecheck and a fakevote, and then wastes more space by backreferencing them. That's all you get, from his first two posts. His third (and thus far, final) post is him essentially telling Moosy to "do stuff" without actually doing stuff himself. We get roughly the same amount of value from Kelsier's posts, in which he tells people to "start the game" without actually doing anything that would get the game going. If either of Kelsier/Sulfurus are town, they've already got a headstart on being useless town.
Okay, so why the vote on NHM? Two reasons.
1) At the time that NHM votes, there is only ONE player who has really expressed any interest in progressing the game. Fidei86. He was the only one (to that point) who had made a legitimate, "let's start thinking about the actual game itself" type of post. And that is who NHM chooses to vote against: the one player who showed an indication that they might be taking the game seriously.
2) The other reason should not be revealed yet.
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On July 12 2015 01:31 TJHuggins wrote:
I see "silentwarrior" is living up to his name.
And "WonnaPlay" apparently does not. It's funny to me that Scott already felt like he needed to "re-read" before he was comfortable saying anything...when we were only 2 pages into the game.
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On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
On July 12 2015 02:53 MoosyDoosy wrote:Exactly what I was thinking. His first post seems to be more of a first page banter post. The second one is asking for clarification although as you say, it leads nowhere.
Grokken's post does not "prod the town" it only prods NHM. And since NHM hasn't responded, I agree with HtS that "there's nothing to follow up on."
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On July 12 2015 05:30 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.
Change things up in what way? Are you saying you want to vary your play? Or do you mean something else?
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I figure it's time for me to make an actual post now that the thread is getting more active.
Sulfurus:
Has made a few posts, but only one-liners and contentless posts. I know you are here and reading the thread, why not try to post something more useful? Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean.
WonnaPlay:
Should post so we know you're still alive.
n00bKing
I was just about to say that you haven't said anything of substance, but then I refresh the thread and there you are! You made some good points and seem to come to similar conclusions as I do, slight townread.
Fidei86:
On July 11 2015 09:14 Fidei86 wrote:
So I guess I'll dive in first, since the game needs to start somewhere.
My opinion on the ideal town environment is that it is one where everyone contributes, but nobody spams. The best way for townies to get town-read by other townies is to be active, to discuss things and to give your opinion freely. If you're lurking as town, you're actively hurting your own team. Even if you don't say much and make it to the later rounds, and even if you solve the game, you're an easy mislynch if your filter is only one or two pages long.
However, at the same time, too much back and forth leads to the thread becoming unmanageable for players with less time -- essentially allowing mafia to hide in amongst the noise. I don't want to over-traffic cop, and I'm hopeful it's not going to be a big problem this game, but ... there it is.
I checked the Himalayas thread, and it's true that there was a huge volume of posts. It seems reasonable to me that he wants to avoid spam in this game. Post makes sense to me, good advice for new players too I think he seems towny overall, posts a decent amount and keeps the thread active without spamming nonsense. Doesn't seem afraid to post what he thinks.
silentwarrior:
silentwarrior is living up to his name, as someone said earlier.
NydusHerMain:
Only real post is a random vote for Fidei. Seems inactive for now, lets wait until he gets back.
MoosyDoosy:
Has made some good posts in my opinion. In particular I agree with the following post:
On July 12 2015 05:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know). I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for.
I was going to bring this up myself, but seems like you beat me to it. Although the defense is good, I think it would be better to just let me defend myself, especially because I haven't really posted much before now. MoosyDoosy is a townread for me.
TJHuggins:
Seems like town to me. He identifies me as someone who has no clue what to post, which is pretty accurate considering this is my first online mafia game (my only previous experience is some IRL mafia just before I signed up for this one). I think it makes sense as town to pressure inexperienced players, and try to make them slip up while defending themselves.
Grokken:
Thats me.
Open Slots:
scott31337: Seems to be lurking, no real contribution so far.
Half the Sky:
Seems like town to me. She (?) has made quite a few posts, with a lot of content and some good points. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that she defended me for seemingly no reason.
GhandiEAGLE:
He says that there isn't much to go by day 1. He hasn't really contributed too much, but the posts he has made feels slightly towny to me. He made a point to flush out the lurkers, which seems like a good idea.
KelsierSC
spamspamspamspamspamspamspam, don't know what to think.
In conclusion, I think we should try to lynch one of the people who is keeping up with the thread, but aren't making useful contributions. These people are in my opinion more likely to be mafia rather than the people who aren't saying anything at all. At this point, these people are Sulfurus, scott31337 and KelsierSC.
This is the first time I make a post like this one, sorry if the formatting is bad.
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On July 12 2015 05:51 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 05:30 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting. Change things up in what way? Are you saying you want to vary your play? Or do you mean something else?
Ofc vary my play. I'm not sure how you could read this any other way. o.O
Eh, good post Grokken. You'll catch on quickly to TL Mafia. We basically analyze, cross analyze, then analyze some more of people's filters before finding contradictions or scum reads to lynch ppl. If you want to push something on someone, write up a "case" similar to the one you've written but with bullet points with quotes for evidence. So what you've been doing is pretty good.
For people wondering, what I do is find townreads and work from there so don't expect me to be finding Mafia anytime soon.
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On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:
In conclusion, I think we should try to lynch one of the people who is keeping up with the thread, but aren't making useful contributions. These people are in my opinion more likely to be mafia rather than the people who aren't saying anything at all. At this point, these people are Sulfurus, scott31337 and KelsierSC.
AND NydusHerMain, who you conspicuously left out of this group, even though two of your townreads (Moosy and myself) are voting against him. Scott has only one post, but you decide that he's "lurking" and think he's a good lynch. NHM you describe as "inactive" instead, and you want to "wait until he gets back." Why the preferential treatment?
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On July 12 2015 07:49 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 05:51 n00bKing wrote:On July 12 2015 05:30 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting. Change things up in what way? Are you saying you want to vary your play? Or do you mean something else? Ofc vary my play. I'm not sure how you could read this any other way. o.O
I could not think of any other way to read it. But I wanted to give you a chance to dig yourself out of that hole anyway, since "vary my play" would be a stupid answer.
You were town and you were widely townread, and you were night-killed on Night 2, after I had been night-killed on Night 1. Now you want to "change things up" and "make things interesting" by varying your play, so that people will NOT be able to townread you so easily? How is that good strategy, Moosy? If you're town, shouldn't you WANT your alignment to be evident again, as it was in that game?
You sound like you are pre-emptively making excuses for not matching your own town play. So that if someone like Sulfurus or Scott or myself says "Moosy is playing nothing like he did in the last game...where he was town" you'll be able to say "Well I already told you I was going to vary my play this time!"
See what I'm saying?
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I agree with Grokken that things have probably gone far enough to start pulling my thoughts together. I'm only going to pick out a couple of things I think are worth discussing, to try and keep things focussed.
I also want to say that if I say something below that makes me sound mean about your play (and you're town...), please remember that I'm just scum-hunting like you. Don't take it too personally.
First, I am scum-reading Moosy. So far I have felt that each of his posts is underwhelming or scum-leaning.
I had typed up a long post by post analysis, but I don't want to detract from my main point, so I'll focus on that. Look at his seventh post, which is here. This makes absolutely makes NO SENSE from a town perspective. Moosy says that last game he was town and was town read. Getting town read as town is the second most important thing a townie can do (after scum-hunting, obviously). If everyone agrees you're town, it means that the mafia have less places to hide. It also gives your reads more weight (because people don't think you're lying to them), and finally if you're VT then it means the scum have to choose between lynching you and trying to find blues. If they go for you, then you're giving your blues another turn to work, which is obviously a massive advantage for town. So, with that in mind, why on earth would you want to change your playstyle??? If I was townread last game, I would try and do EXACTLY the same thing again. I do not buy the excuse that he's just changing up his play. There's no reason to abandon a winning formula (unless you care more about your meta than winning, which no serious player should).
Also, the rest of his filter thus far is just agreeing with people, asking questions and shitting on my post about spam (disclaimer: possible OMGUS on my part here).
I would lynch Moosy today.
I am also scum-reading NHM and scott, at least for now. I've hinted at this above, but basically, NHM's initial reaction to me was strange (calling me "this guy" having been friendly to me before the start of the game). And voting for me after all I'd done was mildly traffic cop seems really really weird, PARTICULARLY because NHM was in Holy Guardians, where we D1 lynched Kickstart essentially for traffic copping. Also, in Himalayas NHM was super constructive and friendly, and his posts were easy and flowed nicely from both a logic and a tone standpoint. This game, it's been the opposite so far.
I'm scum reading scott because he said he was going to "re-read" the three page filter this game has so far, but then never game back. That's a massive scum tell to me. When someone claims that RL problems are keeping them busy, but they are plainly free enough to touch base into the thread, more often than not they're trying to keep their face in the thread without actually saying anything of merit.
Some shorter points, because this has already gone on long enough:
- KSC is town read for me, as it looks like he's pulling the same Chezinu crap that Onegu and ritoky love. That said, if he doesn't come in with some stronger plays then he'd be a good candidate for a d2 or d3 lynch - I do not want to take an Onegu clone into Lylo and lose on a coinflip mislynch AGAIN (it would be the third time in a row :-\)
- I'm town reading TJH at the moment. Some people have criticised his case on Grokken (here), but I actually read it as an honest attempt to make a scum case despite the early stage of the game. If nothing else, it got Grokken to come in and post, which was definitely a pro-town result. (Disclaimer: He said nice things about me, so could be pocketed a little).
- I put together a long post poking what I thought was a hole in HTS' logic, but it actually turned out when I read it again that her logic was sound. I might be biased because I like HTS out of game, but I'm town reading her atm. She seems to be posting in a thoughtful and nuanced style. That said, it's all been a big marginal at the moment, so I'll expect her to get more substantive as we move forward.
- Town reading n00bKing, as his reads are similar to mine and also I liked his explanation of his NHM vote. And I REALLY like his case on Moosy, since it's the same as mine.
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Hey guys, sorry for being late. So I just read trough the thread and here are some of my thoughts now. First, fidei seems like a town read to me right now. He seems to genuienly want to create an enviroment that is good for town. His first post makes this obvious. Have to disagree on his stance however. Imo, most games suffer from people not saying enough than the opposite.
My background is pretty newbie. Have been in a few forum mafia games, but mostly i play IRL.
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Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns.
I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia.
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On July 12 2015 08:07 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 07:49 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 05:51 n00bKing wrote:On July 12 2015 05:30 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting. Change things up in what way? Are you saying you want to vary your play? Or do you mean something else? Ofc vary my play. I'm not sure how you could read this any other way. o.O I could not think of any other way to read it. But I wanted to give you a chance to dig yourself out of that hole anyway, since "vary my play" would be a stupid answer. You were town and you were widely townread, and you were night-killed on Night 2, after I had been night-killed on Night 1. Now you want to "change things up" and "make things interesting" by varying your play, so that people will NOT be able to townread you so easily? How is that good strategy, Moosy? If you're town, shouldn't you WANT your alignment to be evident again, as it was in that game? You sound like you are pre-emptively making excuses for not matching your own town play. So that if someone like Sulfurus or Scott or myself says "Moosy is playing nothing like he did in the last game...where he was town" you'll be able to say "Well I already told you I was going to vary my play this time!" See what I'm saying?
I see what you're saying but posting the same way would just be boring for me and everyone else. Eh, just keep an open mind about me.
Also, n00bKing, you need to stop creating specific scenarios. Like, it's cool you can think that far ahead unlike me but then you'll just fall into the hole that ruXxar did and interpret everything I do as Mafia. We saw his rationale for why he thought I was Mafia and it was pretty convoluted and not pretty.
Anyway, things are already becoming interesting what with people thinking I'm Mafia. And that's the goal of this game for me. To make life interesting. :3
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I guess the least that I can say is that I'm trying to find Mafia in a different way than creating a monster filter / sheeping cases with an earnest playstyle like I did last game.
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You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it??
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I agree with most about what has been said about Moosy. I'm trying to read this game similar to how I would read someone in video mafia (whether or not that is going to work remains to be seen). One way people often get on my "radar" if you will is by dropping sort of key phrases or acting in a certain way after being called out. In my first few months of playing, sometimes this scenario would happen:
A particular player, who may be lurking, or just doesn't sound the same (voice tone, pattern, activeness, etc.) would get pinged out by another player who would say that they "feel different this game" or ask "why they're not playing the same as X game they played with them in." In some of these cases, the person would respond back by saying some variation of the phrase "I'm trying to switch up my play this game" or "I'm trying something new this game." I started to realize that when someone came back with this response most of the time they ended up being a mafia trying to cover up for there change in playstyle due to the change in alignment, or sometimes it was just an excuse to lurk e.g. "I'm going to try to sit back and listen and try to get town reads this game instead of trying to pressure the mafia to see how it works."
I got a similar feeling looking back at what Moosy said (the quote that many have already noted), though I'll admit I didn't catch it the first time. One thing that I did catch, which I thought was kind of odd, is the quote below, though I'm not quite sure what it means yet.
On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says.
It's a pretty innocuous post on it's face, but what stood out for me is that he is deferring to Ghandi before making judgment. But Ghandi's role in the context of the quoted posts is so minor that I can't think what he could possibly add to the conversation that would in turn color your judgment on Grokken's alignment. In fact, I never even mentioned Ghandi in my post. If he disagrees, ok, but why is he saying he needs to wait and see what Ghandi says?
Not sure if I want to lynch him today, but he's on my radar. I still want to hear more.
On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it??
I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives?
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On July 12 2015 04:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Right now its basically impossible to read into anything effectively, so Day 1 we might as well just flush out all of the lurkers, which I may work on when I get off work in a couple hours.
If I'm reading you correctly you want to lynch lurkers (bolded). Policy lynches are something you resort to (or calling for a potential vigilante to shoot them or any DT to check them at night) for lurkers. You always want to give some effort to look for some sort of scummy behaviour.
I did gloss quick over the first few pages of the one game you played. You seemed a bit clueless as town in some of your posts, so I am inclined this could be another deer in the headlights reaction from you however, pretending to do nothing is a meta that can be easily faked. It's a null read for now until I see the first wave of reads from you - which you did eventually offer in your town game.
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I'm strictly against considering policy lynches this early in the day. I'm saying we should get everyone to start talking because lurkers quickly become scapegoats, especially in newbie games where lurkers are often people who are just unsure of what to say.
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Reading the comments on Scott - he's a borderline policy lynch for me. Yes there's an unfulfilled promise lying there taht others have mentioned but at the same time having played several games with him he DOES have long periods of afk. If he's inactive a lot through EoD, I would advocate a DT check/vig shot (which is the conventional way to deal with lurkers) instead - and take the lynch for someone who actually exhibits more scummy behaviour.
The same thing would also apply for (at this point in time) WannaPlay who has yet to post.
SW is a null read as he is repeating most of the points said and repeating (parroting is another term you'll see used) is something that can be done as either alignment early on, exclusively parroting the entire game is usually scum indicative.
Looking through the thread I would say my top three lynches at this point in time are Sulfurus (the post on MD), MD (self-meta) - I know I've seen veterans try to trash/adjust their meta, but for someone who's only played one game on site, I don't understand why you'd want to make the game more difficult for yourself as town - and to a lesser extent NHM (the post on Fidei).
On MD, aside from what others have said, I also don't like the comment "creating specific scenarios" - unless you are directly accusing noobking of actually lying about what happened last game, it would otherwise seem he's relating from another game - database on NSM shows what noob said actually happened re: the nightkills so that is a clear indication you were in decent standing amongst the playerbase in that game.
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On July 12 2015 12:06 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I'm strictly against considering policy lynches this early in the day. I'm saying we should get everyone to start talking because lurkers quickly become scapegoats, especially in newbie games where lurkers are often people who are just unsure of what to say.
Alright, good, thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure by when you said "flush out" - I usually think "get rid of" but you simply meant "expose" or force them to play. Fair enough.
From what I read of your other game you have admitted some hesitation as town to read people. Do you have even a slight thought on the most discussed lynch targets (from what I can tell - scott/Nydus/Moosy/Sulfurus)?
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On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it??
I said I'm changing things up. :3
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Oh man I feel bad. XD I'm like anti-town at best right now. We'll see where this goes. These posts are starting to get interesting.
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noobking gets town points as well for the double standard argument on Grokken in addition to the case on MD.
Another thing of note - for MD - question for you
On July 12 2015 07:49 MoosyDoosy wrote:
For people wondering, what I do is find townreads and work from there so don't expect me to be finding Mafia anytime soon.
In the earlier stages of the game, and especially when there are at least 3-4 individuals that have little to no posting with (I think approx 19h left in the day cycle), how do you expect to ultimately decide whom you want to lynch for the D1?
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On July 12 2015 12:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I said I'm changing things up. :3
You're not particularly answering the question. Maybe it might help if you answered the one I just posed.
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On July 12 2015 09:57 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives?
I don't think I agree with this sentiment TJ. I think I know what Fidei is trying to achieve with the question, but I'll let him sort it out.
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On July 12 2015 12:18 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 12:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I said I'm changing things up. :3 You're not particularly answering the question. Maybe it might help if you answered the one I just posed.
Not particularly interested in something because I'm still waiting but whatever.
I try and form who I think are the core of townies and work from there. I do tend to sheep cases in the earlier stages of the game but it's not because I'm mindless. Something to keep in mind.
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On July 12 2015 12:21 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 12:18 Half the Sky wrote:On July 12 2015 12:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I said I'm changing things up. :3 You're not particularly answering the question. Maybe it might help if you answered the one I just posed. Not particularly interested in something because I'm still waiting but whatever. I try and form who I think are the core of townies and work from there. I do tend to sheep cases in the earlier stages of the game but it's not because I'm mindless. Something to keep in mind.
And what if town are on the wrong track? How do we know you aren't taking advantage of that as scum?
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On July 12 2015 12:39 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 12:21 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 12:18 Half the Sky wrote:On July 12 2015 12:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I said I'm changing things up. :3 You're not particularly answering the question. Maybe it might help if you answered the one I just posed. Not particularly interested in something because I'm still waiting but whatever. I try and form who I think are the core of townies and work from there. I do tend to sheep cases in the earlier stages of the game but it's not because I'm mindless. Something to keep in mind. And what if town are on the wrong track? How do we know you aren't taking advantage of that as scum?
You don't. Which is why things are interesting. :D
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On July 12 2015 12:41 MoosyDoosy wrote:
You don't. Which is why things are interesting. :D
I think in 18-19 hours' time let's see if you find the noose interesting.
##vote MoosyDoosy
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On July 12 2015 12:46 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 12:41 MoosyDoosy wrote:
You don't. Which is why things are interesting. :D I think in 18-19 hours' time let's see if you find the noose interesting. ##vote MoosyDoosy
I do :3
##unvote NydusHerMain
##vote MoosyDoosy
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.......
If you're town you shouldn't be doing this.
What do you think on the most widely (not just me) discussed potential scum if you aren't? (scott/nydus/sulfurus)
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On July 12 2015 08:01 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:
In conclusion, I think we should try to lynch one of the people who is keeping up with the thread, but aren't making useful contributions. These people are in my opinion more likely to be mafia rather than the people who aren't saying anything at all. At this point, these people are Sulfurus, scott31337 and KelsierSC. AND NydusHerMain, who you conspicuously left out of this group, even though two of your townreads (Moosy and myself) are voting against him. Scott has only one post, but you decide that he's "lurking" and think he's a good lynch. NHM you describe as "inactive" instead, and you want to "wait until he gets back." Why the preferential treatment?
Mainly because he popped in early on, made 2 posts, then disappeared and hasn't posted since, while the other have made a few more posts. But yeah, there isn't much difference between NHM and the other people I mentioned.
Also, I might have to change my stance on MD being town. his later posts seem rather suspicious as other people have pointed out. I don't really buy the "switching things up" claim. Also, the following seems contradictory:
On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3
On July 12 2015 02:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:On that note imma sheep n00bKing. ##vote NydusHerMain
On July 12 2015 08:44 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I guess the least that I can say is that I'm trying to find Mafia in a different way than creating a monster filter / sheeping cases with an earnest playstyle like I did last game.
HtS proposed that we try to lynch the most scummy person rather than policy-lynching people for lurking, and rather use DT checks/VT shots for the lurkers, which seems reasonable to me. I listed the lurkers as potential lynch targets mostly because I didn't have any other scumreads. MD might be a better target for a day 1 lynch.
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Last post from me for a bit....
On July 12 2015 13:35 Grokken wrote:Also, I might have to change my stance on MD being town. his later posts seem rather suspicious as other people have pointed out. I don't really buy the "switching things up" claim. Also, the following seems contradictory: Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3 Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 11 2015 23:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:
We are all sheep. On that note imma sheep n00bKing. ##vote NydusHerMain Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 08:44 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I guess the least that I can say is that I'm trying to find Mafia in a different way than creating a monster filter / sheeping cases with an earnest playstyle like I did last game. HtS proposed that we try to lynch the most scummy person rather than policy-lynching people for lurking, and rather use DT checks/VT shots for the lurkers, which seems reasonable to me. I listed the lurkers as potential lynch targets mostly because I didn't have any other scumreads. MD might be a better target for a day 1 lynch.
You said in your FIRST assessment of him:
On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:MoosyDoosy: Has made some good posts in my opinion. In particular I agree with the following post: Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 05:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know). I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for. I was going to bring this up myself, but seems like you beat me to it. Although the defense is good, I think it would be better to just let me defend myself, especially because I haven't really posted much before now. MoosyDoosy is a townread for me.
You pick up ONE post that was good but the posts that others commented on that were poor were also BEFORE you posted. The two posts called into question by others BEFORE your first assessment are:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#160
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=9#174
If you townread him for his posting in general, why did these posts pass you by? The second was about an hour before you responded so it's not likely you were ninjaed there.
The switching things up argument was also made BEFORE your first townread of him.
To me at first glance, this looks like you are blending in with the crowd once MD has been called out.
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On July 12 2015 12:19 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 09:57 TJHuggins wrote:On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives? I don't think I agree with this sentiment TJ. I think I know what Fidei is trying to achieve with the question, but I'll let him sort it out.
Thanks HTS. I can feel the pocket already! :-)
@TJH Two reasons for that post really:
1. One of my favourite ways to try and exonerate falsely accused scum is to judge their reaction to being pressured/tunnelled. In Holy Guardians everyone wanted to lynch a player called Chocolate for the first three days (and we did lynch him like d3 or d4). But I actually believed his town claim just from the emotional way he defended himself. I totally agree that this is never going to be conclusive, and it's only one piece of a big and complicated jigsaw, but there it is.
2. I get a bit ... emotional about scum hunting. People who played with me in HG will remember some of the posts I made when town mislynched Chocolate (there was some swearing ha). Basically, I can get a bit carried away. I would still ask that question again, I think, but you're totally right to call me out on the way I phrased it. That said, given Moosy's incredibly lacklustre response to it, I'm glad I did post it.
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On July 12 2015 14:35 Half the Sky wrote:Last post from me for a bit.... Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 13:35 Grokken wrote:Also, I might have to change my stance on MD being town. his later posts seem rather suspicious as other people have pointed out. I don't really buy the "switching things up" claim. Also, the following seems contradictory: On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3 On July 12 2015 02:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 11 2015 23:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:
We are all sheep. On that note imma sheep n00bKing. ##vote NydusHerMain On July 12 2015 08:44 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I guess the least that I can say is that I'm trying to find Mafia in a different way than creating a monster filter / sheeping cases with an earnest playstyle like I did last game. HtS proposed that we try to lynch the most scummy person rather than policy-lynching people for lurking, and rather use DT checks/VT shots for the lurkers, which seems reasonable to me. I listed the lurkers as potential lynch targets mostly because I didn't have any other scumreads. MD might be a better target for a day 1 lynch. You said in your FIRST assessment of him: Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:MoosyDoosy: Has made some good posts in my opinion. In particular I agree with the following post: On July 12 2015 05:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know). I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for. I was going to bring this up myself, but seems like you beat me to it. Although the defense is good, I think it would be better to just let me defend myself, especially because I haven't really posted much before now. MoosyDoosy is a townread for me. You pick up ONE post that was good but the posts that others commented on that were poor were also BEFORE you posted. The two posts called into question by others BEFORE your first assessment are: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#160http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=9#174If you townread him for his posting in general, why did these posts pass you by? The second was about an hour before you responded so it's not likely you were ninjaed there. The switching things up argument was also made BEFORE your first townread of him. To me at first glance, this looks like you are blending in with the crowd once MD has been called out.
A mistake on my part. When i made the first post I was reading through everyones filter to figure out exactly who said what. It took a decent amount of time, and after refreshing there were new posts, so I had to go back and re-evaluate some people. I read through a lot of posts, and I must have overlooked the ones you linked.
I was originally gonna put MD as neutral, but then he made this post:
On July 12 2015 05:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know). I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for.
I was also asking myself why you would be defending me, I hadn't really posted much at this point, and hearing my defense could have resulted in some useful reads. At this point, I had a friend waiting for me, so I decided to put him as town and be done with it.
Anyway, when other people pointed out the problems with his posts, I went back and reread his filter in more detail, and that made me change my mind.
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All of that said, although I think Moosy is a fine choice for lynching, I am more concerned about the chronic lurkers we have. The thing about Moosy is that, although literally everything he has done has been scummy, this early on d1 it's all pretty much just tone reads and looking for scum 'slips'. This is highly important, as it gives town something to talk about and can force scum to start talking in the thread. However, having slept on it (and calmed a bit), I can see a stronger argument for lurking one of the lurkers. I know HTS and others have talked before about not policy lynching, but the thing is that Moosy is at least here to defend himself. The others aren't, and that makes lynching them later on down the line basically a coin flip. I'd rather get that out of the way early.
That said, I wonder if there will be mod-kills/replacements for the people who haven't posted at all? Does anyone know what usually happens in these Newbie Mafia games?
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On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote:
Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns.
I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia.
Silent's two posts got lost in the mix a little, but I want to just flag them up. I know this is a newbie game, so maybe people are just giving them a pass because he's new, or it could be that people were expecting him to continue his train of thought. However, on their face, these are incredibly poor posts.
First, he apologises for being late to the thread (being nervous and apologetic can be a scum-sign), then he proceeds to parrot points that have all been made in exactly the other way by other people. If you read them both again, there is not an original thought in them.
Second, he makes them and then retreats back into the shadows.
I'm not going to full on scum read him because, as I said above, he's new and so may just be honestly struggling for something new to say. I know I felt the same way in my first game. Still, this is a troubling start and he's going to have to improve to avoid drawing my attention later on.
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I just took a look over Scott's filter in Gaiden and he has been pretty inactive in there too over the last 36 hours or so, save for one post last night/this morning. That doesn't intrinsically mean much, but I thought I'd flag it up anyway. Hopefully he'll be back well in advance of the deadline..
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Going to bed now (yeah I know it's 2pm in Sweden, don't judge me), made my vote in case i don't get back.
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So, unfortunately this started on a busy weekend for me, but here I am again.
As for my background in Mafia, I have none, but I have played "Werewolves of Miller's Hollow", which is similar I guess.
My initial thoughts are that there are some people who are actually trying to help the discussion so far and some people are just trying to create chaos.
In my opinion people who try to create chaos aren't playing happily for the village.
NHM : somehow votes really really early, without having a solid argument.
MoosyDoosy: Votes on NHM with the motto of sheep. I'm not particularly fond of sheep, becuse in that case it seems like you will vote with anyone, just so you don't get killed during the day, which seems conspicuous. He does seem to "try" to help, but voting on himself afterwards isn't really helpfull either.
My first impression on MD is that he is trying to create too much chaos, which is scumlike. But in the same time it seems like he is just trying to provoke alot of people, which is townlike i guess?
Scott : somehow says he has a townlead towards Fidei, but hasn't said anything since, nor did he do anything to explain his thoughts, which seems just really random.
TJHuggins : seems to be trying to find out more information on certain partys, which is better (imo) than spraying confusement.
HTS: seems to be really forward in his questions calling people onto their nonsense, which could be really strong mafia play, but for now it seems like he is legitimately hunting.
Ghandi : I don't really know what he's thinking, he seems to try to avoid policy lynches on the first day, which I can understand, but it could also just be easy targeting/avoiding death. I don't have experience with this game, but I doubt that "Day 1 reads are all luck anyways" is true.. I think you can really come to some sort of fruition about some people..
Kelsier : So far he has only spammed nonesense into this thread, which is confusing for everyone. I think mafia players like chaos in the game, so in this case Kelsier is doing a "good" thing, by being a bit active without doing anything to help the town at all.
Sulfurus : just randomly said he had the cop check, but I assume this is to get some reactions to it. Hasn't really said much since..
n00bking / grokken/ fidei: has actually tried to get more explanations / reactions out of people which is good for the village imo.
silentwarrior : really is kinda silent.. .
It's really hard to tell, especially since it is in the beginning of the game, but seeing that Kelsier has alot of experience and is only trying to create chaos, is worrying for me. Some others which seems untrustworthy aren't making a mess out of the rest of the town, so for me MoosyDoosy and Kelsier are the most dangerous at this moment..
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Kelsier - if you are running the Chezniu/Onegu line, you're doing it all wrong and it's time to stop and contribute. We all know that you're a very strong player, and not having you helping out is actively hurting town.
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WonnaPlay - welcome to TL Mafia (he says, only having had two prior games of experience). Who are you thinking about lynching at the moment?
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On July 12 2015 21:29 Fidei86 wrote:
WonnaPlay - welcome to TL Mafia (he says, only having had two prior games of experience). Who are you thinking about lynching at the moment?
Hi, Thanks
As I said in my other post, my 2 most 'dangerous' villagers are MD and Kelsier, just for the fact that they're creating chaos.
If they are townies, I don't think their prime objective would be chaos creation. So I would probably vote for one of these 2, unless they come up with a decent post in the coming 9 hours.
I'll also wait for Scott's reaction, because he claimed to post something soon.
You just said Kelsier is a really good player, yet to me he showed signs of the most scummie player. Maybe it was on purpose, maybe it was not. Untill he explains himself he's the #1 suspect for me
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In my first game ever we had a player do more or less the same as Kelsier is doing now. I reacted more or less exactly the same way as you have done. In this specific scenario, and given that I've played with Kelsier, I don't think he is a good lynch for today. However, I'll leave it to Kelsier to come and explain what he is up to.
I give you a slight town read for the way you are thinking, even if I don't agree quite with where you end up.
Also, am I right in thinking that English is not your first language? (If it isn't, it's still a hell of a lot better than my Dutch, believe me - and this is coming from someone who once dated a Dutch girl for six months).
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 12 2015 21:27 Fidei86 wrote:
Kelsier - if you are running the Chezniu/Onegu line, you're doing it all wrong and it's time to stop and contribute. We all know that you're a very strong player, and not having you helping out is actively hurting town.
I will send out the message from my cabin but I see no reason to abandon my sanctuary to the "chaotic" game I created.
Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.
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I can't wait for HTS to wake up from her (likely atrocious) hangover and kick your ass for being lazy :p
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I know there's not a whole lot to go on so far (so much for me being concerned about spam), but given that it looks like the population of this game is very new (lots of people on their first game) then some of the more experienced people are going to have to step up and give some leadership. Obviously if you're mafia, then you're perfectly happy sitting in the shadows.
So what I'm saying is, get out of your 'cabin' (?) and help me solve this game!
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 12 2015 22:13 Fidei86 wrote:
I know there's not a whole lot to go on so far (so much for me being concerned about spam), but given that it looks like the population of this game is very new (lots of people on their first game) then some of the more experienced people are going to have to step up and give some leadership. Obviously if you're mafia, then you're perfectly happy sitting in the shadows.
So what I'm saying is, get out of your 'cabin' (?) and help me solve this game!
I just gave two mafia.
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List posts aren't necessarily a scum tell. They can be, obviously, but for two brand new players I don't think we can just rush to assume they're both scum.
And more than that, you know fine well that there's no value in you just throwing out scum reads. You're never going to get them lynched without actually explaining why what you've pointed out is scummy. It's painfully obvious that the population in this game is much newer than other games, so you can't just throw out comments like that and expect everyone to know what you're talking about.
Also, can you give us any insight as to whether you're pulling the Chezniu/Onegu card, or not?
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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On July 12 2015 22:07 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 21:27 Fidei86 wrote:
Kelsier - if you are running the Chezniu/Onegu line, you're doing it all wrong and it's time to stop and contribute. We all know that you're a very strong player, and not having you helping out is actively hurting town. I will send out the message from my cabin but I see no reason to abandon my sanctuary to the "chaotic" game I created. Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.
Why is a list post a terrible thing in the early game? I'm just trying to share my thoughts, where in your case you just share your conclusion without any effort to back it up.
I was also told by my parents since I was young, that I shouldn't trust people in cabins..
On July 12 2015 22:17 Fidei86 wrote:
Also, can you give us any insight as to whether you're pulling the Chezniu/Onegu card, or not?
Please explain to me what the "Chezniu/Onegu card is.
On July 12 2015 22:03 Fidei86 wrote:
Also, am I right in thinking that English is not your first language? (If it isn't, it's still a hell of a lot better than my Dutch, believe me - and this is coming from someone who once dated a Dutch girl for six months).
It's not my first language indeed.. Is it this terrible? I also don't think you can learn Dutch in six months
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No your English is brilliant, I just like to know these things because it gives me a better insight into why and how you might phrase certain things.
Re Chezinu/Onegu, I don't want to say yet because I'm not sure if Kelsier is actually playing it or not. If he is, it kind of ruins it if I explain it.
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Even though I think it's stupid.
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"Sheep me, I'm good at this game" or "I act as scum and see if anyone bites, then I attack them" - Onegu Card?
So basically Kelsier is trying to get newer players to attack him, because he is sowing nonsense. To see if other people just blatantly follow those new players, which means that those followers or "sheep" are probably mafia players looking to get an easy kill?
If this is what he's doing, then I think that his posts make more sense indeed, however I think it's provoking the wrong reactions in a newbie game.
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I literally could not agree with you more.
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VOTE COUNT
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
NydusHerMain (1): N00bKing
MoosyDoosy(3): Half the Sky, MoosyDoosy, Grokken
Wonnaplay(1): KelsierSC
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the MaFia ban thread.
Currently MoosyDoosy is set to be lynched
Day 1 ends in
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On July 12 2015 22:26 KelsierSC wrote:
##Vote: Wonnaplay
Kelsier, I'm wondering if you would care to explain what factors weighed in on your decision here to vote for Wonnaplay as opposed to Grokken when from your previous post it appears you considered them equally scummy for the same reason?
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On July 12 2015 22:43 WonnaPlay wrote:
"Sheep me, I'm good at this game" or "I act as scum and see if anyone bites, then I attack them" - Onegu Card?
So basically Kelsier is trying to get newer players to attack him, because he is sowing nonsense. To see if other people just blatantly follow those new players, which means that those followers or "sheep" are probably mafia players looking to get an easy kill?
If this is what he's doing, then I think that his posts make more sense indeed, however I think it's provoking the wrong reactions in a newbie game.
I think it's more like: Act like a fool and get town read for it.
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TJH - slightly weird question here, but are you NHM's boyfriend? I only ask because he said he was going to ask his BF to play, and I was wondering if that was you.
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Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191)
I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.")
I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play.
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On July 12 2015 23:20 Fidei86 wrote:
TJH - slightly weird question here, but are you NHM's boyfriend? I only ask because he said he was going to ask his BF to play, and I was wondering if that was you.
Yes.
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Do you know whether NHM has any OOC reasons for not being in the thread over the last day or so?
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On July 12 2015 23:38 Fidei86 wrote:
Do you know whether NHM has any OOC reasons for not being in the thread over the last day or so?
Yes.
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Yes you know, or yes he does?
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On July 12 2015 22:07 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 21:27 Fidei86 wrote:
Kelsier - if you are running the Chezniu/Onegu line, you're doing it all wrong and it's time to stop and contribute. We all know that you're a very strong player, and not having you helping out is actively hurting town. I will send out the message from my cabin but I see no reason to abandon my sanctuary to the "chaotic" game I created. Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.
How are they terrible list posts? Repeating here but newbies do that a lot. How is that outside the realm of possibilities for town? And for people legitimately entering the thread late what are your expectations?
Additionally Grokken's posted more than that how much did you take that into account?
How much of the WP read is OMGUS?
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On July 12 2015 21:18 WonnaPlay wrote:
So, unfortunately this started on a busy weekend for me, but here I am again.
As for my background in Mafia, I have none, but I have played "Werewolves of Miller's Hollow", which is similar I guess.
My initial thoughts are that there are some people who are actually trying to help the discussion so far and some people are just trying to create chaos.
In my opinion people who try to create chaos aren't playing happily for the village.
NHM : somehow votes really really early, without having a solid argument.
MoosyDoosy: Votes on NHM with the motto of sheep. I'm not particularly fond of sheep, becuse in that case it seems like you will vote with anyone, just so you don't get killed during the day, which seems conspicuous. He does seem to "try" to help, but voting on himself afterwards isn't really helpfull either.
My first impression on MD is that he is trying to create too much chaos, which is scumlike. But in the same time it seems like he is just trying to provoke alot of people, which is townlike i guess?
Scott : somehow says he has a townlead towards Fidei, but hasn't said anything since, nor did he do anything to explain his thoughts, which seems just really random.
TJHuggins : seems to be trying to find out more information on certain partys, which is better (imo) than spraying confusement.
HTS: seems to be really forward in his questions calling people onto their nonsense, which could be really strong mafia play, but for now it seems like he is legitimately hunting.
Ghandi : I don't really know what he's thinking, he seems to try to avoid policy lynches on the first day, which I can understand, but it could also just be easy targeting/avoiding death. I don't have experience with this game, but I doubt that "Day 1 reads are all luck anyways" is true.. I think you can really come to some sort of fruition about some people..
Kelsier : So far he has only spammed nonesense into this thread, which is confusing for everyone. I think mafia players like chaos in the game, so in this case Kelsier is doing a "good" thing, by being a bit active without doing anything to help the town at all.
Sulfurus : just randomly said he had the cop check, but I assume this is to get some reactions to it. Hasn't really said much since..
n00bking / grokken/ fidei: has actually tried to get more explanations / reactions out of people which is good for the village imo.
silentwarrior : really is kinda silent.. .
It's really hard to tell, especially since it is in the beginning of the game, but seeing that Kelsier has alot of experience and is only trying to create chaos, is worrying for me. Some others which seems untrustworthy aren't making a mess out of the rest of the town, so for me MoosyDoosy and Kelsier are the most dangerous at this moment..
The bit about me is terrible. I really don't see how you could draw that as a conclusion unless you're deliberately twisting your own mind to try and "nail" a scum slip. If you honestly think that's what I'm doing go back and read the timeline of the thread.
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Continuing to read through thread.
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On July 12 2015 13:07 Half the Sky wrote:
.......
If you're town you shouldn't be doing this.
What do you think on the most widely (not just me) discussed potential scum if you aren't? (scott/nydus/sulfurus)
I have no thoughts. It's more interesting to have people kill an obvious townie and facepalm as a reaction afterwards. XD
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On July 12 2015 22:07 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 21:27 Fidei86 wrote:
Kelsier - if you are running the Chezniu/Onegu line, you're doing it all wrong and it's time to stop and contribute. We all know that you're a very strong player, and not having you helping out is actively hurting town. I will send out the message from my cabin but I see no reason to abandon my sanctuary to the "chaotic" game I created. Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.
ayeeE finally someone who sees what's going on.
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On July 12 2015 22:43 WonnaPlay wrote:
"Sheep me, I'm good at this game" or "I act as scum and see if anyone bites, then I attack them" - Onegu Card?
So basically Kelsier is trying to get newer players to attack him, because he is sowing nonsense. To see if other people just blatantly follow those new players, which means that those followers or "sheep" are probably mafia players looking to get an easy kill?
If this is what he's doing, then I think that his posts make more sense indeed, however I think it's provoking the wrong reactions in a newbie game.
Um...no. Kelsier this might be a townie read since he seems to have no idea what traps are.
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On July 13 2015 01:06 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 13:07 Half the Sky wrote:
.......
If you're town you shouldn't be doing this.
What do you think on the most widely (not just me) discussed potential scum if you aren't? (scott/nydus/sulfurus) I have no thoughts. It's more interesting to have people kill an obvious townie and facepalm as a reaction afterwards. XD
Moosy if you aren't going to defend yourself, you're gonna get lynched. If you're town, it's your duty to defend yourself.
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On July 13 2015 01:35 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 01:06 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 13:07 Half the Sky wrote:
.......
If you're town you shouldn't be doing this.
What do you think on the most widely (not just me) discussed potential scum if you aren't? (scott/nydus/sulfurus) I have no thoughts. It's more interesting to have people kill an obvious townie and facepalm as a reaction afterwards. XD Moosy if you aren't going to defend yourself, you're gonna get lynched. If you're town, it's your duty to defend yourself.
Nah it's cool. I'm fine with me dying. I've been hoping to get more of a reaction but I haven't seem to got it. I think I'll re-read the thread and some filters before writing an epitaph for my death.
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If anyone does want to talk I am in more of a cooperative mindset. So if any of you have questions this is the time to ask.
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On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:
I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself.
Players may not vote for themselves. So the vote count posted on Page 12 is not completely accurate.
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Well there's been plenty said about you, and the thread is not that long. Care to respond to any of it?
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On July 13 2015 02:03 Fidei86 wrote:
Well there's been plenty said about you, and the thread is not that long. Care to respond to any of it?
Don't really feel like going back tbh. I also don't know exactly what you have questions about.
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On July 13 2015 02:00 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:
I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. Players may not vote for themselves. So the vote count posted on Page 12 is not completely accurate.
Hey hey, don't burst my bubble. Let me vote for myself.
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On July 12 2015 05:30 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I see what you're saying but posting the same way would just be boring for me and everyone else. Eh, just keep an open mind about me.
Me keeping an open mind is automatic, you don't have to ask for it. But frankly, I could give a shit what is boring for you. If you're Town, help me win! :D
On July 12 2015 07:49 MoosyDoosy wrote:Also, n00bKing, you need to stop creating specific scenarios. Like, it's cool you can think that far ahead unlike me but then you'll just fall into the hole that ruXxar did and interpret everything I do as Mafia. We saw his rationale for why he thought I was Mafia and it was pretty convoluted and not pretty.
I ain't ruXxar. And I'm sure you're not going to try to say I'm tunneled on you or something, when I haven't voted against you (yet...)
On July 12 2015 08:42 MoosyDoosy wrote:Anyway, things are already becoming interesting what with people thinking I'm Mafia. And that's the goal of this game for me. To make life interesting. :3
Again, if you're Town, then I would be happier if your goal for this game was to achieve your win condition, and not "to make life interesting."
All of the above are things I could have said last night, but I decided to give you more time, before jumping all over those posts. So that if you were waiting for specific types of reactions from certain players, you would have an opportunity to see what would happen. But I think it's gone on long enough. If there's any method to your actions, it's time to move on to the next phase of the plan.
MoosyDoosy wrote:
If anyone does want to talk I am in more of a cooperative mindset. So if any of you have questions this is the time to ask.
You think so? Because to me, you don't seem like you're in a more cooperative mindset at all. To me, it seems more like you're already picking up some of the WORST habits that some of the veterans have (being obstinate and useless, and adopting an "If you want to mislynch me, then screw you anyway" attitude) instead of trying to develop any of the best habits that any of the veterans have.
So yeah, I have a question for you: Why are you playing against the Town's win condition? Is it because you don't have the Town's win condition? Or is it because you aren't following the rules of the game? We know you ignored the rule that says you can't vote for yourself. But IF you are Town, then you're also ignoring this rule:
"Play to win.
This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game."
I know you've said that you want to make things interesting and keep yourself from being bored. If all you cared about was entertaining yourself, you could have just gone and masturbated. But this game is a TEAM exercise. If you're Town, start helping your team, please.
If you're Scum, just keep on keepin' on, since it is obviously getting the votes on you.
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Here is Sulfurus' 2nd post in Newbie X (when he was Town):
On May 22 2015 11:34 Sulfurus wrote:
@NinjaBunnies the most important point in this game so far is when Breshke 1st stared pushing on Sicklucker since the conflict between the two has defined the entire game.
Speaking of that, Breshke is my top scum since he continuously pushes against Sicklucker with very bad reasoning (#159 he complains that he has disappeared and hasn't thought critically only 3 hours into the game)
I also scum read Murray due to his weak and untrue accusation against Dis in post #191 which made me think Sick is town since he tried Bandwagoning on him but he has since rescinded his vote.
In this game, Sulfurus' 2nd post was just him quoting his own 1st post, in which he fakeclaimed a red check, and made a fake vote that he didn't actually put in the voting thread.
In Newbie XI, Sulfurus was lurky, and useless, and SCUM.
In this game, Sulfurus is lurky, and useless, and...draw your own conclusions.
If Moosy starts actually doing something worthwhile, then I'm all about the idea of just lynching Sulfurus on Day 1 of every game until he stops flipping Red, or starts participating in games.
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On July 12 2015 12:09 Half the Sky wrote:
On MD, aside from what others have said, I also don't like the comment "creating specific scenarios" - unless you are directly accusing noobking of actually lying about what happened last game, it would otherwise seem he's relating from another game - database on NSM shows what noob said actually happened re: the nightkills so that is a clear indication you were in decent standing amongst the playerbase in that game.
In Moosy's defense (since we know he's shown no interest in defending himself) I think the "specific scenario" he was talking about is the one where he says he'll be changing up his play, as a cover for when he later does not play the way he had previously, when Town. I would not count that line as a strike against him (though I obviously have no problem admitting there are strikes against him).
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@n00bking I'm down for that. I'd rather lynch a lurker than Moosy. At least Moosy is here and semi-willing to engage. There's still a few hours before deadline, but right now I'd lynch Scott and/or Sulfur and/or NHM without hesitation.
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On July 12 2015 12:11 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 12:06 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I'm strictly against considering policy lynches this early in the day. I'm saying we should get everyone to start talking because lurkers quickly become scapegoats, especially in newbie games where lurkers are often people who are just unsure of what to say. Alright, good, thanks for clarifying. I wasn't sure by when you said "flush out" - I usually think "get rid of" but you simply meant "expose" or force them to play. Fair enough.
This could be a US vs. UK thing, on how the phrase is normally used. Since EAGLE and I are both in the US, I'll confirm for him that in this context, for Americans, "flush out" would mean to flush out of hiding or flush out into the open, rather than flushing them away.
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On July 12 2015 13:35 Grokken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 08:01 n00bKing wrote:On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:
In conclusion, I think we should try to lynch one of the people who is keeping up with the thread, but aren't making useful contributions. These people are in my opinion more likely to be mafia rather than the people who aren't saying anything at all. At this point, these people are Sulfurus, scott31337 and KelsierSC. AND NydusHerMain, who you conspicuously left out of this group, even though two of your townreads (Moosy and myself) are voting against him. Scott has only one post, but you decide that he's "lurking" and think he's a good lynch. NHM you describe as "inactive" instead, and you want to "wait until he gets back." Why the preferential treatment? Mainly because he popped in early on, made 2 posts, then disappeared and hasn't posted since, while the other have made a few more posts.
Yeah, no. Sulfurus has had 1 more post than NHM, but Scott still hasn't made a 2nd post yet. The others have not "made a few more posts" than NHM, when you have Scott in that group of others. So NHM remains conspicuous by his absence from your list. I don't think there will be an opportunity to consider seriously pressuring you today, but I'm making this post just as a note to myself (or reminder to anyone that reads my filter later) that Grokken says things that are not true.
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So I'm sitting here thinking "n00b just made a big case on Moosy, then immediately defended him and now wants to lynch elsewhere - classic scum tell!". But then I thought about it and realised that my approach has been exactly the same. I want Moosy to engage, since everything we have on him at the moment is tonal, and could be bad/lazy town. Bleh.
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On July 12 2015 22:07 KelsierSC wrote:
Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.
Looks like Fidei and WonnaPlay have both interpreted this post to mean that "list posts are terrible." I interpreted it to mean that you just think THEIR lists are terrible. Can you clarify on that? And if I'm right that you just mean THEIR lists are terrible, please expound on what you think makes the lists terrible.
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I'm getting a really bad feeling about KSC this game. He was NK'd D1 in Himalayas. On paper, he has to be one of the strongest players on this roster. And his contributions have been utterly hopeless.
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On July 13 2015 02:43 Fidei86 wrote:
So I'm sitting here thinking "n00b just made a big case on Moosy, then immediately defended him and now wants to lynch elsewhere - classic scum tell!". But then I thought about it and realised that my approach has been exactly the same. I want Moosy to engage, since everything we have on him at the moment is tonal, and could be bad/lazy town. Bleh.
This is not a classic scum tell. It's pretty obvious I'm being a shitty townie so his analysis is pretty on point as usual. I really don't see how you guys think I'm Mafia. XD
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You're asking people to vote for you? You very rarely see town do that.
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On July 13 2015 03:32 Fidei86 wrote:
You're asking people to vote for you? You very rarely see town do that.
Really? How (in)experienced are you at Mafia? Have you been in games with shitty townies before?
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 13 2015 02:53 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 22:07 KelsierSC wrote:
Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.
Looks like Fidei and WonnaPlay have both interpreted this post to mean that "list posts are terrible." I interpreted it to mean that you just think THEIR lists are terrible. Can you clarify on that? And if I'm right that you just mean THEIR lists are terrible, please expound on what you think makes the lists terrible.
their lists are just LR's of a very small thread with no interesting opinions.
Shit lists = mafia
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On July 13 2015 03:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 02:43 Fidei86 wrote:
So I'm sitting here thinking "n00b just made a big case on Moosy, then immediately defended him and now wants to lynch elsewhere - classic scum tell!". But then I thought about it and realised that my approach has been exactly the same. I want Moosy to engage, since everything we have on him at the moment is tonal, and could be bad/lazy town. Bleh. This is not a classic scum tell. It's pretty obvious I'm being a shitty townie so his analysis is pretty on point as usual. I really don't see how you guys think I'm Mafia. XD
Can you explain to me how I am supposed to differentiate "shitty townie" play from Mafia play? The way your posts are reading to me now it sounds like you are a mafia resigned to their fate. If that's not the case then what is your play here? Do you have anyone you think is mafia? Anyone that you think is town? Any reasons for those reads? Any reasoning for why you have been writing/acting like a 14 year old for the last 12 hours? I'm going to be seriously upset if you are lynched and flip town because all that I will be thinking is: "What the fuck?"
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 12 2015 23:16 TJHuggins wrote:Kelsier, I'm wondering if you would care to explain what factors weighed in on your decision here to vote for Wonnaplay as opposed to Grokken when from your previous post it appears you considered them equally scummy for the same reason?
good question, Wonnaplay's list felt the most like shit so I voted for him
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On July 13 2015 03:42 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 02:53 n00bKing wrote:On July 12 2015 22:07 KelsierSC wrote:
Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.
Looks like Fidei and WonnaPlay have both interpreted this post to mean that "list posts are terrible." I interpreted it to mean that you just think THEIR lists are terrible. Can you clarify on that? And if I'm right that you just mean THEIR lists are terrible, please expound on what you think makes the lists terrible. their lists are just LR's of a very small thread with no interesting opinions. Shit lists = mafia
What's LR?
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On July 13 2015 03:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:
This is not a classic scum tell. It's pretty obvious I'm being a shitty townie so his analysis is pretty on point as usual. I really don't see how you guys think I'm Mafia. XD
Thanks for the compliment on my consistently on-point analysis! You could totally pocket me, if you were Mafia (and weren't getting yourself lynched today!)
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 13 2015 03:46 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 03:42 KelsierSC wrote:On July 13 2015 02:53 n00bKing wrote:On July 12 2015 22:07 KelsierSC wrote:
Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.
Looks like Fidei and WonnaPlay have both interpreted this post to mean that "list posts are terrible." I interpreted it to mean that you just think THEIR lists are terrible. Can you clarify on that? And if I'm right that you just mean THEIR lists are terrible, please expound on what you think makes the lists terrible. their lists are just LR's of a very small thread with no interesting opinions. Shit lists = mafia What's LR?
live reports, basically summarising what has happened in the game so far but not adding anything to it.
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On July 13 2015 03:54 KelsierSC wrote:
live reports, basically summarising what has happened in the game so far but not adding anything to it.
What's added to it is their opinions. Most of the positions they take may not be interesting or unexpected. They may not advance us much toward winning the game. But at least they are taking positions, that I can later use to help determine their motivations. I'd rather have players making "shitty list posts" than players that aren't here to participate (Scott) or are here but refuse to participate (Moosy)
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On July 13 2015 03:43 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 03:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 13 2015 02:43 Fidei86 wrote:
So I'm sitting here thinking "n00b just made a big case on Moosy, then immediately defended him and now wants to lynch elsewhere - classic scum tell!". But then I thought about it and realised that my approach has been exactly the same. I want Moosy to engage, since everything we have on him at the moment is tonal, and could be bad/lazy town. Bleh. This is not a classic scum tell. It's pretty obvious I'm being a shitty townie so his analysis is pretty on point as usual. I really don't see how you guys think I'm Mafia. XD Can you explain to me how I am supposed to differentiate "shitty townie" play from Mafia play? The way your posts are reading to me now it sounds like you are a mafia resigned to their fate. If that's not the case then what is your play here? Do you have anyone you think is mafia? Anyone that you think is town? Any reasons for those reads? Any reasoning for why you have been writing/acting like a 14 year old for the last 12 hours? I'm going to be seriously upset if you are lynched and flip town because all that I will be thinking is: "What the fuck?"
Ya that's gonna happen. If you read my filter I did say in one of my posts that my goal is to make you all lynch me and facepalm afterwards.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 13 2015 04:07 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 03:54 KelsierSC wrote:
live reports, basically summarising what has happened in the game so far but not adding anything to it. What's added to it is their opinions. Most of the positions they take may not be interesting or unexpected. They may not advance us much toward winning the game. But at least they are taking positions, that I can later use to help determine their motivations. I'd rather have players making "shitty list posts" than players that aren't here to participate (Scott) or are here but refuse to participate (Moosy)
i'm glad you got that off your chest
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So as far as I am concerned Moosy has killed himself and talking about him is a waste of time, which ironically makes Kelsier the most productive town since he moved the conversation to something actually important.
Anyway I noticed that HTS came to Grokk's defense against an accurate post on him even after calling Grokk out for blatantly reversing his read on Moosy just to fit thread sentiment. What's up with that?
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Looking forward to half the players being mod-killed by Day 2, for failure to vote. 
Just by the way, does anyone know of any decent websites for playing Mafia-by-Forum?
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Uh ... This one?
##Vote: MoosyDoosy
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I've got my vote in for Moosy, just in case my internet crashes or I get distracted or something. But I'll try and be around for EOD. I'd much rather lynch Sulfurus, NHM or Scott. Anyone willing to help with one of those? I'd prefer NHM, I think, but any of those would be fine. I cannot abide lurkers.
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On July 13 2015 05:39 Fidei86 wrote:
Uh ... This one?
NOPE.
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nonono plz kill me.
n00bKing we know how this will end up anyway. XD
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Gonna vote for NydusHerMain. Right now, she isn't saying much at all, and left pretty suspiciously. I would rather her get lynched than MoosyDoosy, since he is actually active and contributing. That helps the town, even if most of what he says is bad and he is still high on my scumlist. However, not saying anything dosen't help much at all.
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On July 13 2015 05:15 Sulfurus wrote:So as far as I am concerned Moosy has killed himself and talking about him is a waste of time, which ironically makes Kelsier the most productive town since he moved the conversation to something actually important.Anyway I noticed that HTS came to Grokk's defense against an accurate post on him even after calling Grokk out for blatantly reversing his read on Moosy just to fit thread sentiment. What's up with that?
No, just no.
Out of context much? There's a massive difference between questioning someone's argument on/for their target (which n00bking did too mind you) and defending said target. There was reason to question Kelsier over what he posted, and that is not the same as coming to Grok's defence.
Just no, and your first sentence in that post is like you don't care about the lynch which screams mafia. The fact you aren't even lending your opinion re: MD when presumably you've had experience with him one way or another is also another red flag and I'm thinking you're just content to let him die if he's town. You haven't done jack all and that's not even considering that your first serious post in the game is actually scummy.
n00bking might be on to something about that meta argument of yours. You haven't even passed judgement on some of the other players in this game. Maybe there's a solution to that...the noose.
##unvote
##vote Sulfurus
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My preferred order atm
Sulfurus > MD/NHM (tossup) > Scott
I shouldn't be talking about replacements...but there was a call for one for this game, and I'll just leave it at that.
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On July 13 2015 06:04 silentwarrior wrote:
Gonna vote for NydusHerMain. Right now, she isn't saying much at all, and left pretty suspiciously. I would rather her get lynched than MoosyDoosy, since he is actually active and contributing. That helps the town, even if most of what he says is bad and he is still high on my scumlist. However, not saying anything dosen't help much at all.
Do you have any comments on the other top candidates? (sulfurus/scott)
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On July 13 2015 05:40 Fidei86 wrote:
I've got my vote in for Moosy, just in case my internet crashes or I get distracted or something. But I'll try and be around for EOD. I'd much rather lynch Sulfurus, NHM or Scott. Anyone willing to help with one of those? I'd prefer NHM, I think, but any of those would be fine. I cannot abide lurkers.
Sulfurus is the most scummy lurker.
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On July 13 2015 04:19 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 04:07 n00bKing wrote:On July 13 2015 03:54 KelsierSC wrote:
live reports, basically summarising what has happened in the game so far but not adding anything to it. What's added to it is their opinions. Most of the positions they take may not be interesting or unexpected. They may not advance us much toward winning the game. But at least they are taking positions, that I can later use to help determine their motivations. I'd rather have players making "shitty list posts" than players that aren't here to participate (Scott) or are here but refuse to participate (Moosy) i'm glad you got that off your chest
He's got a point here Kels, Anyone can parrot and continuous parroting is a problem but fundamentally if there's no original material, most list posts are actually null provided they aren't totally illogical, or something in that post isn't out of context (which is why SW was null to me as well on his first set of opinions).
Now where is everyone, switching to Gaiden until I see more people....but I am here.
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On July 13 2015 03:32 Fidei86 wrote:
You're asking people to vote for you? You very rarely see town do that.
Actually on average townies are more likely to do that than mafia especially in newbie games. Veteran games are slightly different but newbie games...but the fact that MD self-metaed already obviously negates all that.
On July 13 2015 05:32 n00bKing wrote:Looking forward to half the players being mod-killed by Day 2, for failure to vote. Just by the way, does anyone know of any decent websites for playing Mafia-by-Forum?
This is honestly one of the best ones. Stick around for the veteran games, from what I can tell of your play, regardless of whichever alignment you are, you seem pretty cut out for the vet games, where people do take things a little more seriously. The thread on average moves slower in newbie games, that's just how it is.
On July 13 2015 03:43 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 03:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 13 2015 02:43 Fidei86 wrote:
So I'm sitting here thinking "n00b just made a big case on Moosy, then immediately defended him and now wants to lynch elsewhere - classic scum tell!". But then I thought about it and realised that my approach has been exactly the same. I want Moosy to engage, since everything we have on him at the moment is tonal, and could be bad/lazy town. Bleh. This is not a classic scum tell. It's pretty obvious I'm being a shitty townie so his analysis is pretty on point as usual. I really don't see how you guys think I'm Mafia. XD Can you explain to me how I am supposed to differentiate "shitty townie" play from Mafia play? The way your posts are reading to me now it sounds like you are a mafia resigned to their fate. If that's not the case then what is your play here? Do you have anyone you think is mafia? Anyone that you think is town? Any reasons for those reads? Any reasoning for why you have been writing/acting like a 14 year old for the last 12 hours? I'm going to be seriously upset if you are lynched and flip town because all that I will be thinking is: "What the fuck?"
Honestly I'm fearing that, and ESPECIALLY with the afk votes, and the comment by Sulfurus....
WAKE UP PEOPLE.
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Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:
1. MoosyDoosy
2. Sulfuras
3. Grokken
Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)
If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.
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@HTS I'm down.
##Vote: Sulfurus
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On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote:
Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:
1. MoosyDoosy
2. Sulfuras
3. Grokken
Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)
If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.
If there's a vig in the setup, shoot Sulfurus 100%. I'm waiting to see if there's more votes for the switch, but I'm fearing with the number of people just sat on MD and the last comment by Sulfurus, MD if town, made this an easy ML for the mafia, which is infuriating, especially for a D1 lynch.
If there's a DT, check any of the lurkers/nulls - NHM/Scott/SW/WP
And what specifically is the deal with Grokken from your end?
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
sounds good to me
##vote Sulfurus
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To the people voting Nydus:
On July 13 2015 06:09 Half the Sky wrote:
My preferred order atm
Sulfurus > MD/NHM (tossup) > Scott
I shouldn't be talking about replacements...but there was a call for one for this game, and I'll just leave it at that.
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If I counted right, the votes are tied 3-3, with MD getting lynched for the tiebreaker.
MD FFS SAVE YOURSELF IF YOU ARE TOWN.
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On July 13 2015 06:46 Half the Sky wrote:To the people voting Nydus: Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 06:09 Half the Sky wrote:
My preferred order atm
Sulfurus > MD/NHM (tossup) > Scott
I shouldn't be talking about replacements...but there was a call for one for this game, and I'll just leave it at that.
Unless you know more than what is bolded, your post could just as easily refer to Scott.
Anyway, I have moved my vote to Sulfurus.
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On July 13 2015 06:50 Half the Sky wrote:
If I counted right, the votes are tied 3-3, with MD getting lynched for the tiebreaker.
MD FFS SAVE YOURSELF IF YOU ARE TOWN.
Believe that there are now 4 votes on Sulfurus. You/fidei/Kelsier/me. And in your 3 votes on Moosy, are you counting his own vote? Because it won't/shouldn't count.
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On July 13 2015 06:50 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 06:46 Half the Sky wrote:To the people voting Nydus: On July 13 2015 06:09 Half the Sky wrote:
My preferred order atm
Sulfurus > MD/NHM (tossup) > Scott
I shouldn't be talking about replacements...but there was a call for one for this game, and I'll just leave it at that. Unless you know more than what is bolded, your post could just as easily refer to Scott. Anyway, I have moved my vote to Sulfurus.
Very true, I had Scott as null/policy lynch regardless but that just reinforces the case that both should probably be left alone.
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On July 13 2015 06:52 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 06:50 Half the Sky wrote:
If I counted right, the votes are tied 3-3, with MD getting lynched for the tiebreaker.
MD FFS SAVE YOURSELF IF YOU ARE TOWN. Believe that there are now 4 votes on Sulfurus. You/fidei/Kelsier/me. And in your 3 votes on Moosy, are you counting his own vote? Because it won't/shouldn't count.
Grokken, Sulfurus, TJH
Eagle hasn't voted I don't think.
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VOTE COUNT
Sulfurus(4): Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently Sulfurus is set to be lynched with 4 votes.
Day 1 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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On June 27 2015 13:22 Onegu wrote:
Voting rules: 1. Voting is done by posting in the separate voting thread. Votes posted in this thread will not be counted. 2. Please vote in the following format: ##Vote: Kavdragon or ##Vote Kavdragon. Votes must be in bold, and votes not written in the correct fashion will not be counted. 3. No conditional voting. 4. You may vote only for other living players in the thread. You may not vote for yourself.5. This game uses plurality voting, so whoever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. There is no minimum number of votes required to lynch someone. If there is a tie for most votes, whoever most recently had more votes than the other is the person who is up for the lynch. 6. The person who is up for the lynch is whoever has the most votes. Bringing another player up to that number of votes doesn't put him up for the lynch; he has to have the most votes. 7. Voting is mandatory. You may NOT abstain.
Not to be persnickety...
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@rsoultin: Again, from the voting rules - "You may not vote for yourself." Doesn't say that it's poor form or bad sportsmanship. It just can't happen.
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lol this is the most OMGUS vote I've ever seen.
I'm sure most people just saw a bunch of words in HTS's filter and assumed she was town without noticing the way she is just throwing out accusations until she gets something to stick.
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I blame onegu votecount corrected
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yea you many not vote for yourself I am mobile currently
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On July 13 2015 06:56 Sulfurus wrote:
lol this is the most OMGUS vote I've ever seen.
I'm sure most people just saw a bunch of words in HTS's filter and assumed she was town without noticing the way she is just throwing out accusations until she gets something to stick.
You realise there's not a shred of OMGUS in my argument and then again I scumread you BEFORE your last comment on me so that is also debunked.
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On July 13 2015 05:15 Sulfurus wrote:So as far as I am concerned Moosy has killed himself and talking about him is a waste of time, which ironically makes Kelsier the most productive town since he moved the conversation to something actually important. Anyway I noticed that HTS came to Grokk's defense against an accurate post on him even after calling Grokk out for blatantly reversing his read on Moosy just to fit thread sentiment. What's up with that?
Seriously how in the hell do you say something like this with the amount of time you had to sort him out?
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Wait what... the vote count was changed after the day ended. This is some shitty modding.
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FINAL VOTE COUNT
Sulfurus(4): Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Sulfurus has been lynched with 4 votes.
Day 1 ends in
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I was refreshing the voting thread and never saw the change? Why was it even included in the first place if it wasn't allowed? That's silly.
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Stop posting. Final warning. Take it to pms.
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Night 1
Sulfurus the Mafia Godfather has been lynched.
Please submit your night actions to both Onegu and myself.
Night ends in
WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy have been warned for failing to vote.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
welp thats a lot of confirmed town
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YES! ONE DOWN THREE TO GO.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 13 2015 07:10 Half the Sky wrote:
YES! ONE DOWN THREE TO GO.
nice job
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Mods, my mistake, I should have just stopped at 2959. He couldn't have responded anyways.
GGs Sulfurus. It wasn't personal <3
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LOL that should have been one down, two to go lol. But thanks.
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Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it.
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And with the GF down, if there's a DT, now you can check any of the lurkers I mentioned on page 15.
Vig....ehhhhhh....I'm not sure on this one.
Medic, if you exist...well the voting table should clearly indicate whom to save.
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On July 13 2015 07:10 KelsierSC wrote:
welp thats a lot of confirmed town
Welp, it's the 3 players I already figured were Town (Fidei, HtS, me) and now we added you! Not bad, not bad.
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On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote:
Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it.
We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that.
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I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD.
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On July 13 2015 07:10 rsoultin wrote:
Sulfurus the Mafia Godfather has been lynched.
TJHuggins wrote:
I was refreshing the voting thread and never saw the change? Why was it even included in the first place if it wasn't allowed? That's silly.
U mad, bro?
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On July 13 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote:
Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it. We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that.
You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. The fact that it was not corrected until after the time in the day ended is unacceptable imo. I feel very strongly about the integrity of games that I am in and it just annoys me when something like this happens.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD.
I can give you a hint
+ Show Spoiler +
also please don't criticise mods the way you did, they run games for us and it isn't easy.
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It's a lesson learnt TJ, when in doubt, always check the OP and if the OP isn't specific enough then take it to a moderator via PM. At that point it's on the moderator to sort it out.
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The way to find additional mafia is to see who else was content to let MD die. That might be a good starting point.
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On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:
We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that. You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden.
That's odd that you would think that, considering that this happened, all the way back on Page 13:
On July 13 2015 02:00 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:
I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. Players may not vote for themselves. So the vote count posted on Page 12 is not completely accurate.
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On July 13 2015 07:16 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. I can give you a hint + Show Spoiler +also please don't criticise mods the way you did, they run games for us and it isn't easy.
The mistake was made: that's fine. Everyone makes mistakes. To retroactively correct the mistake after the day ends instead of leaving it as is? Unacceptable from a game integrity standpoint. But we got a mafia; it's whatever. I get passionate about lynches.
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On July 13 2015 07:20 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote:On July 13 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:
We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that. You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. That's odd that you would think that, considering that this happened, all the way back on Page 13: Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 02:00 n00bKing wrote:On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:
I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. Players may not vote for themselves. So the vote count posted on Page 12 is not completely accurate.
My point is the vote remained on the voting thread and was included in the vote counts until a minute or two after the day concluded.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
anyway i'm headed back to the cabin
l8
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 13 2015 07:21 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:16 KelsierSC wrote:On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. I can give you a hint + Show Spoiler +also please don't criticise mods the way you did, they run games for us and it isn't easy. The mistake was made: that's fine. Everyone makes mistakes. To retroactively correct the mistake after the day ends instead of leaving it as is? Unacceptable from a game integrity standpoint. But we got a mafia; it's whatever. I get passionate about lynches.
yeh but doesn't mean you have to be an asshole
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Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Nice job HTS.
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I don't count this as getting lynched since 4 people didn't vote but regardless gg wp.
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Also doesn't giving people only a warning for not voting a bit of a bad precedent to set? Isn't this essentially akin to allowing each player to make one non-vote each game?
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On July 13 2015 07:32 TJHuggins wrote:
Also doesn't giving people only a warning for not voting a bit of a bad precedent to set? Isn't this essentially akin to allowing each player to make one non-vote each game?
The rules are as clear about the warning for the first failure to vote, as they are about the fact that players cannot vote for themselves.
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On July 13 2015 02:27 n00bKing wrote:Here is Sulfurus' 2nd post in Newbie X (when he was Town): Show nested quote +On May 22 2015 11:34 Sulfurus wrote:
@NinjaBunnies the most important point in this game so far is when Breshke 1st stared pushing on Sicklucker since the conflict between the two has defined the entire game.
Speaking of that, Breshke is my top scum since he continuously pushes against Sicklucker with very bad reasoning (#159 he complains that he has disappeared and hasn't thought critically only 3 hours into the game)
I also scum read Murray due to his weak and untrue accusation against Dis in post #191 which made me think Sick is town since he tried Bandwagoning on him but he has since rescinded his vote. In this game, Sulfurus' 2nd post was just him quoting his own 1st post, in which he fakeclaimed a red check, and made a fake vote that he didn't actually put in the voting thread. In Newbie XI, Sulfurus was lurky, and useless, and SCUM. In this game, Sulfurus is lurky, and useless, and...draw your own conclusions. If Moosy starts actually doing something worthwhile, then I'm all about the idea of just lynching Sulfurus on Day 1 of every game until he stops flipping Red, or starts participating in games.
Guess I'll have to keep waiting!
On July 11 2015 09:18 Sulfurus wrote:
I'm cop with a guilty check on noobking
##noobking
get rekt
Don't eff with the n00b, Sulfurus. 
In addition to the 4 players who voted out the Godfather, I am also randomly townreading GhandiEAGLE for some reason or other. So that's 5 people I feel pretty good about.
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Hey guys, good lynch. As of now, I think that, aside from those who voted on sulfurus, these two are town: Grokken and MoosyDoosy. MoosyDoosy is a little obvious, sulfurus woulnd't go for him if he was another mafia. And a sacrifice here seems unlikely, seeing as MoosyDoosy was nowhere a done deal, so he could have been saved still. Sulfurus getting on the MoosyDoosy train seems like a way to just vote on the most popular one and slip by. He basically admitted to doing this even.
Then Grokken is because of this post:
On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:
I figure it's time for me to make an actual post now that the thread is getting more active.
Sulfurus:
Has made a few posts, but only one-liners and contentless posts. I know you are here and reading the thread, why not try to post something more useful? Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean.
He pings sulfurus as a scum lean fairly early, before any of the recent suspicion started. That means that most likely that they aren't mafia partners, as mafia will not give scumlean to their own partners when there is no other big suspicion on him. This leads me to believe that he is town as well.
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Half the Sky wrote:
If there's a DT, check any of the lurkers/nulls - NHM/Scott/SW/WP
Would be interested in hearing opinions from others, on whether this would be the best use of a Cop's ability. A null is always statistically more likely to be Town than not. So if a Cop just goes stumbling into that group, he can expect to get a Town check back.
The good thing about getting a town check on someone in that group is that you won't mislynch them, when otherwise, it is always tempting to lynch a lurker.
But the bad thing about getting a town check on someone in that group is that...even once you know you can trust them, how much help are you really going to get from them? If Nydus were to come back, and we knew he could be trusted, then maybe that would be awesome, having a vet that is known to be Town, for sure. But right now, I don't see how we can bank on Scott/SilentWarrior/WonnaPlay giving us a lot of assistance in reasoning things out, even if they were known to be Town.
Grokken and TJ have both been much more active. I'm more curious about whether those guys are actually allies of mine, than I am about whether Scott is. And each is suspicious, in his own way. They both had their vote on Moosy while the Godfather was getting lynched. So that's not great. And then:
Grokken - Kelsier hated his list post. I didn't, really. But Kelsier could still be right, even though I didn't see anything. What was more suspicious to me was that when I started to turn thread sentiment against Moosy, Grokken quickly flipped his read on Moosy from Green to Red.
TJ - Being pissed about the Sulfurus lynch isn't necessarily alignment-indicative. Because if he were scum & smart, he would raise hell about it in the scum thread, and not here in the main thread, where it paints him in a negative light. But he could have been WIFOM'ing, or he could have been reacting in an emotional moment, without first thinking about how it would be perceived (as this is his first Mafia-by-Forum game, it sounded like). Moreover, there was something specific about TJ's behavior (that I won't bring to light just yet) that I found suspicious throughout all of Day 1. A town-check on this guy would keep me from spending the rest of the game tunneled on him. lol
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nonono Sulfurus was busing me. I'm Mafia too guys plz kill me. XD
Alright down to business. Apparently my bait was successful although I wasn't around to catch the slip from Sulfurus. Glad to see that Half the Sky caught it. I'm going to actually work from here on out. Re-reading the thread seriously.
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I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me.
Also, i get a townvibe from wonnaplay.
Of course, I could be all wrong about this, and mafia decided to sacrifice sulfurus, but dont really think so right now. Regardless, those reamaining that I think the mafia is among is : scott31337, GhandiEAGLE, NydusHerMain. One or two of these three are probably mafia.
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@n00b I think generally it's best for people to not give advice to the cop. Firstly, we don't even know if there is a cop. Secondly, if we all say "check X" and then nothing comes from it during the next day, everyone might assume the person is town, when either there isn't a cop, or the cop checked elsewhere. Thirdly, giving advice as to who the cop should check might be indicative that you aren't the cop. That's helpful for the scum, who are probably furiously blue hunting.
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Well HtS was already giving advice to the cop. heh
I think it's worthwhile for people to give advice to pretty much any role that can use an action.
The only reason for anyone to talk during the Night Phase is to guide the actions of the Blue Roles. That's it. Otherwise, no one should say anything until a minute before the deadline.
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Sorry about being useless/afk, small stuff that takes priority came up. From now on I have my full attention on the game, will drop in my current reads (spoilers; I don't trust Moose) later.
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On July 13 2015 08:55 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Sorry about being useless/afk, small stuff that takes priority came up. From now on I have my full attention on the game, will drop in my current reads (spoilers; I don't trust Moose) later.
yesyesyes I like this post the most. Especially the spoiler part. Let's start off and end with this on Day 2 folks.
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On July 13 2015 07:29 Sulfurus wrote:
I don't count this as getting lynched since 4 people didn't vote but regardless gg wp.
It's plurality lynch Sulfurus, not majority. There's a massive difference between the two, hopefully someone's telling you that in the obs qt.
On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD.
That's part of the problem....there were none. That is how I tagged him!
On July 13 2015 07:32 TJHuggins wrote:
Also doesn't giving people only a warning for not voting a bit of a bad precedent to set? Isn't this essentially akin to allowing each player to make one non-vote each game?
This is a newbie game for a reason. People here (well 10/13) are new to TL. It's trying to get used to our site - kiddie pool style. Even in veteran games some moderators (Artanis, myself, etc) will allow warnings for first offences, and others (e.g. Blazinghand) will directly modkill. Again, the rules are NOT universal, so always read the OP.
On July 13 2015 08:12 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote + Half the Sky wrote:
If there's a DT, check any of the lurkers/nulls - NHM/Scott/SW/WP Would be interested in hearing opinions from others, on whether this would be the best use of a Cop's ability. A null is always statistically more likely to be Town than not. So if a Cop just goes stumbling into that group, he can expect to get a Town check back. The good thing about getting a town check on someone in that group is that you won't mislynch them, when otherwise, it is always tempting to lynch a lurker. But the bad thing about getting a town check on someone in that group is that...even once you know you can trust them, how much help are you really going to get from them? If Nydus were to come back, and we knew he could be trusted, then maybe that would be awesome, having a vet that is known to be Town, for sure. But right now, I don't see how we can bank on Scott/SilentWarrior/WonnaPlay giving us a lot of assistance in reasoning things out, even if they were known to be Town. Grokken and TJ have both been much more active. I'm more curious about whether those guys are actually allies of mine, than I am about whether Scott is. And each is suspicious, in his own way. They both had their vote on Moosy while the Godfather was getting lynched. So that's not great. And then: Grokken - Kelsier hated his list post. I didn't, really. But Kelsier could still be right, even though I didn't see anything. What was more suspicious to me was that when I started to turn thread sentiment against Moosy, Grokken quickly flipped his read on Moosy from Green to Red. TJ - Being pissed about the Sulfurus lynch isn't necessarily alignment-indicative. Because if he were scum & smart, he would raise hell about it in the scum thread, and not here in the main thread, where it paints him in a negative light. But he could have been WIFOM'ing, or he could have been reacting in an emotional moment, without first thinking about how it would be perceived (as this is his first Mafia-by-Forum game, it sounded like). Moreover, there was something specific about TJ's behavior (that I won't bring to light just yet) that I found suspicious throughout all of Day 1. A town-check on this guy would keep me from spending the rest of the game tunneled on him. lol
Well here's the thing, there are two ways to play this, if there is a DT in this game.
Clearing lurkers or red checking them will help you in LYLO - as scum will push a certain way through a game and then boom late game clearing people may catch them off guard.
Alternatively you can also look at people whose current behaviour (if reasonably active) are soemwhat questionable or you cannot get a good read on them or if they appear controversial (like some people are townreading and others are scumreading) then they are also good checks. Given the current game state, I think for example Grokken would be a good check in this category.
As for TJ's behaviour I think I know what you might be inferring but we'll see how he progresses N1/D2.
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On July 13 2015 08:49 n00bKing wrote:Well HtS was already giving advice to the cop. heh I think it's worthwhile for people to give advice to pretty much any role that can use an action. The only reason for anyone to talk during the Night Phase is to guide the actions of the Blue Roles. That's it. Otherwise, no one should say anything until a minute before the deadline.
Well it never hurts to plan for the next phase.
I look at those who haven't voted for instance and I do wonder if some of them were trying to blend in (maybe? IDK, it's too early to tell, ie WP), but they really need to step up if they are town and....
....the four people who did not vote for the love of everything good esp if you are town, DO NOT FORGET TO VOTE!!!!!!!!!
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Guys I didn't vote because I didn't want to kill my scum mate Sulfurus.
^^^
^^^
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On July 13 2015 08:17 MoosyDoosy wrote:
nonono Sulfurus was busing me. I'm Mafia too guys plz kill me. XD
Alright down to business. Apparently my bait was successful although I wasn't around to catch the slip from Sulfurus. Glad to see that Half the Sky caught it. I'm going to actually work from here on out. Re-reading the thread seriously.
LOL...
anyhow....if you are town, you are in a good position to tell us who the scummers - if any - were on your wagon. Who do you think they were?
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On July 13 2015 09:38 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 08:17 MoosyDoosy wrote:
nonono Sulfurus was busing me. I'm Mafia too guys plz kill me. XD
Alright down to business. Apparently my bait was successful although I wasn't around to catch the slip from Sulfurus. Glad to see that Half the Sky caught it. I'm going to actually work from here on out. Re-reading the thread seriously. LOL... anyhow....if you are town, you are in a good position to tell us who the scummers - if any - were on your wagon. Who do you think they were?
tbh I have 2 suspicions but I'd rather wait. If I'm right, I'd rather not say it and die. Either way I doubt Mafia will try and kill me since some people apparently somehow see me as a possible scum and they will try and bus me. But knowing that they might kill me although there are better people to kill. ^.^ I love screwing things up for the Mafia.
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On July 13 2015 09:43 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 09:38 Half the Sky wrote:On July 13 2015 08:17 MoosyDoosy wrote:
nonono Sulfurus was busing me. I'm Mafia too guys plz kill me. XD
Alright down to business. Apparently my bait was successful although I wasn't around to catch the slip from Sulfurus. Glad to see that Half the Sky caught it. I'm going to actually work from here on out. Re-reading the thread seriously. LOL... anyhow....if you are town, you are in a good position to tell us who the scummers - if any - were on your wagon. Who do you think they were? tbh I have 2 suspicions but I'd rather wait. If I'm right, I'd rather not say it and die. Either way I doubt Mafia will try and kill me since some people apparently somehow see me as a possible scum and they will try and bus me. But knowing that they might kill me although there are better people to kill. ^.^ I love screwing things up for the Mafia.
You can post like 1 minute before night ends. That way, mafia can't kill you for whatever you say, as they don't have time to react.
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On July 13 2015 10:09 silentwarrior wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 09:43 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 13 2015 09:38 Half the Sky wrote:On July 13 2015 08:17 MoosyDoosy wrote:
nonono Sulfurus was busing me. I'm Mafia too guys plz kill me. XD
Alright down to business. Apparently my bait was successful although I wasn't around to catch the slip from Sulfurus. Glad to see that Half the Sky caught it. I'm going to actually work from here on out. Re-reading the thread seriously. LOL... anyhow....if you are town, you are in a good position to tell us who the scummers - if any - were on your wagon. Who do you think they were? tbh I have 2 suspicions but I'd rather wait. If I'm right, I'd rather not say it and die. Either way I doubt Mafia will try and kill me since some people apparently somehow see me as a possible scum and they will try and bus me. But knowing that they might kill me although there are better people to kill. ^.^ I love screwing things up for the Mafia. You can post like 1 minute before night ends. That way, mafia can't kill you for whatever you say, as they don't have time to react.
^.^ That was the goal.
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Usually when Mafia can't stop a d1 lynch, it's a sign that they don't have much sway over town and that the town 'leaders' are probably actually town. The number of people who didn't vote throws that up in the air a little bit, but I think for now we can look elsewhere other than HTS, Kelsier and n00b. There's nothing to stop HTS bussing Sulfurus, but at the same time the general inactivity of town and the inevitability of the Moosy lynch make me think that's unlikely. Especially because, from a meta perspective, I don't think scum HTS would bus a new player so out of the blue - the aim of these games is at least partly to make everyone enjoy and learn the game.
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I should probably finish my thoughts by saying that n00b was on Sulfurus from the start, so I think a bus is unlikely. I don't know whether Kelsier is a busser. His behaviour is definitely the most suspicious of all the people on Moosy - he had been wanting to lynch Silent and Wonna (I think, phone posting here). Still, he wasn't sold on the Moosy lynch, so it's not too big of a stretch.
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EBWOP "the most suspicious of all the people on Sulfurus"
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
sulfur's exit post saying that "4 people not voting means it doesn't count" indicates mafia is in the non votes who could have swayed it for him.
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Meh, two things:
1) I don't think it necessarily reads that way; and
2) I don't think we should place too much weight on what he said, since technically he shouldn't have said anything.
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On July 13 2015 19:55 Fidei86 wrote:
Meh, two things:
1) I don't think it necessarily reads that way; and
2) I don't think we should place too much weight on what he said, since technically he shouldn't have said anything.
Or the fact that given he's flipped scum, it really should be disregarded as WIFOM.
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On July 13 2015 19:38 KelsierSC wrote:
sulfur's exit post saying that "4 people not voting means it doesn't count" indicates mafia is in the non votes who could have swayed it for him.
Yeah I don't necessarily read it in that way. It could have just been townies that would have sheeped the case on me.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 13 2015 21:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 19:38 KelsierSC wrote:
sulfur's exit post saying that "4 people not voting means it doesn't count" indicates mafia is in the non votes who could have swayed it for him.
Yeah I don't necessarily read it in that way. It could have just been townies that would have sheeped the case on me.
very well, retracted
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Where I am currently:
Town: Fidei, myself, NK
Probable town: KSC
Town lean/maybe town: MD
Null: Ghandi, WP, SW, Grokken
Null/Policy: Scott
Scumlean: NHM
Probable scum: TJHuggins
Grokken's thread sentiment point I did query that earlier and I think noob, you mentioned that too, do you think this response makes sense for the read change? Not sure if you missed it.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=11#210
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Has anyone ever been in a game with a successful D1 lynch? This is kind of new territory for me, I'm used to going straight through to LYLO with mislynches...
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On July 13 2015 21:37 Fidei86 wrote:
Has anyone ever been in a game with a successful D1 lynch? This is kind of new territory for me, I'm used to going straight through to LYLO with mislynches...
Yes, twice, once as each alignment, though. Can you tie Sulfurus to anyone else, maybe? I guess that's what you are asking?
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But Fidei it really does not happen often, just above a quarter of the time (the actual figure is in the database somewhere but it's something like that).
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@HTS My list is basically exactly the same as yours, which is encouraging. I'm thinking the same on TJH, but I haven't had time to properly filter dive yet. Was there anything in particular you wanted to flag up, so I could keep my eyes open for it?
For what it's worth, I agree that it's more likely than not that Moosy is town. The chance of both wagons being mafia d1 has to be pretty remote, given that there were plenty of policy lynches (NHM and Scott) that definitely could have gotten traction, but didn't.
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On July 13 2015 21:40 Half the Sky wrote:
But Fidei it really does not happen often, just above a quarter of the time (the actual figure is in the database somewhere but it's something like that).
That's okay, I don't mind you carrying me in DOTA *and* in mafia :D
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On July 13 2015 21:39 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 21:37 Fidei86 wrote:
Has anyone ever been in a game with a successful D1 lynch? This is kind of new territory for me, I'm used to going straight through to LYLO with mislynches... Yes, twice, once as each alignment, though. Can you tie Sulfurus to anyone else, maybe? I guess that's what you are asking?
I was more wondering whether there were any specific things that people have noticed about d1 lynch games, which might be useful here..
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Also, I think this is probably worth saying - if there is a medic, they should 100% try and save HTS this evening. She is probably the most town-read person (maybe along side me), but given that she just nailed Sulfurus in one post, I definitely think she's towns biggest asset right now. She's definitely smarter than me, anyway
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So if you look at my profile, the two games I'm going to cite are Linux and Not Themed.
The short answer is that both individuals in my cases were caught out more or less because of meta.
In Linux, the person who got nailed D1 was done so because he was more lurky than his town meta and he didn't followup on important points he made. He also showed a little too much concern for getting killed Night 1 (and he was getting killed N1 a lot) so he made excuses to not play D1. Additionally he made a very awkward turnabout read on a player that claimed blue D1.
In Not Themed, the scummer who got lynched did so because he has a known meta where he contributes little and does nothing as scum. The individual who would have gotten lynched otherwise wound up being blue and people didn't lynch him even though his gameplay was scummy, so he wound up being the fallback alternative. The problem for town was that several townies were playing poor so it was easy to take advantage and neither myself nor my remaining teammate were ever caught.
TLDR - D1 lynches come down to how organised town is, and why the lynches occur also lend some insight as to how they will progress later in the game.
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On July 13 2015 22:07 Fidei86 wrote:Also, I think this is probably worth saying - if there is a medic, they should 100% try and save HTS this evening. She is probably the most town-read person (maybe along side me), but given that she just nailed Sulfurus in one post, I definitely think she's towns biggest asset right now. She's definitely smarter than me, anyway
Awwwww <3
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On July 13 2015 22:10 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 22:07 Fidei86 wrote:Also, I think this is probably worth saying - if there is a medic, they should 100% try and save HTS this evening. She is probably the most town-read person (maybe along side me), but given that she just nailed Sulfurus in one post, I definitely think she's towns biggest asset right now. She's definitely smarter than me, anyway Awwwww <3
I'm going to take the bullet for you, bodyguard style
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I missed the vote, because I fell asleep :/
I'll be honest, I wasn't planning on voting for Sulfurus when I was awake, since I had no argument against him, but seeing the last posts do give a bit of a tell...
I would have probably voted for Kelsier, since he still makes nonsense conclusions without any background or maybe MD, because of his style...
Even in the end Kelsier seems to just follow blindly, but did vote for the scum, so eventhough I really dislike his way of playing, I think he's a town after all. I doubt scum would vote on one of their own in the first day, but then again, this would be a very strong play, especially against us "noobies".
I'm also unsure if it's smart to post my thoughts during the night, but f*ck it.. :
I'm unsure how to handle people that aren't here at all (eventhough I messed up aswell these first days :/), since Scott and NHM have absolutely done nothing to contribute.
Also Ghandi's posts are very, very contradicting with eachother:
[quote so Day 1 we might as well just flush out all of the lurkers, which I may work on when I get off work in a couple hours.[/quote]
I'm strictly against considering policy lynches this early in the day. I'm saying we should get everyone to start talking because lurkers quickly become scapegoats,
Sorry about being useless/afk, small stuff that takes priority came up. From now on I have my full attention on the game, will drop in my current reads (spoilers; I don't trust Moose) later.
Right after this, goes AFK again..?
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Tictock is replacing Nydushermain.
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Ticktock *and* Scott again in the same game?
/sigh
... Kidding. Welcome TT!
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Thank goodness. I had a feeling something was up there. Welcome back.
And Tictock would appear to be a relatively easy player to read. I'd know, I coached him as town in NSM10 *happy dance*
On July 13 2015 21:41 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS My list is basically exactly the same as yours, which is encouraging. I'm thinking the same on TJH, but I haven't had time to properly filter dive yet. Was there anything in particular you wanted to flag up, so I could keep my eyes open for it?
Oh my, I realised I missed this question. Hold on. Grabbing relevant quotes.
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PS I'm at work atm so don't have time for any long posts, but the short story is that TT was scum in the first game I was in (Holy Guardians) but I tunnelled him and Scott (who was town) relentlessly after D2. TT basically carried the game for scum, who won on mislynching Scott.
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Fidei, on TJH - (going to spoiler quotes for readability)
+ Show Spoiler [initial read] +On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read.
This post, there's an agenda in the sense that this read lacks context. First quote was part of a joke between him and Ghandi, and nothing should be made of it and TJH tried to. Second quote, there was reason to question NHM and that question isn't for naught. Overall he's making something out of nothing.
I also feel he did the same thing when he tried to pin Fidei for the wording on MD earlier.
+ Show Spoiler [followup - "town prodding"] +On July 12 2015 03:10 TJHuggins wrote:
I agree that it was grokken's town prodding question that got me suspicious of him in the first place.
Then right after he says "this posts doesn't really offer anything" he then says it's a "town prodding question" (which noob called him out for anyways) so then why did he say before that it doesn't really offer anything? The wording association between those two quotes is really awkward.
+ Show Spoiler [comment on Sulfurus] +On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD.
Now TJH already had Sulfurus as 2 on his list of scummies so why would he need to reread it - additionally there was nothing Sulfur even said on MD which was the biggest issue I had.
+ Show Spoiler [Kelsier scumread] +On July 12 2015 23:16 TJHuggins wrote:Kelsier, I'm wondering if you would care to explain what factors weighed in on your decision here to vote for Wonnaplay as opposed to Grokken when from your previous post it appears you considered them equally scummy for the same reason? On July 12 2015 23:18 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 22:43 WonnaPlay wrote:
"Sheep me, I'm good at this game" or "I act as scum and see if anyone bites, then I attack them" - Onegu Card?
So basically Kelsier is trying to get newer players to attack him, because he is sowing nonsense. To see if other people just blatantly follow those new players, which means that those followers or "sheep" are probably mafia players looking to get an easy kill?
If this is what he's doing, then I think that his posts make more sense indeed, however I think it's provoking the wrong reactions in a newbie game.
I think it's more like: Act like a fool and get town read for it.
This one is pretty simple - he appears scumread Kelsier and then he drops that read altogether in his lynch list. Or at least it's not clear why he dropped him or where he stands on him now.
TLDR - there's a bit of awkward progression and grasping for straws with the scumreads he's putting in. Also his reaction post-lynch was a bit more subdued and I'm ignoring the issues he's had with the mods, I'm more specifically talking about the "mod error I'll take it" post.
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I need to afk for quite some time - work is kicking my rear and I have a long day today. Will try and pop in with questions over dinner if I can, but I make no promises.
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Hey guys, been following the game thus far... Good job on that D1 lynch!
I'm going to be a little touch and go with posting untill sometime late tomorow. I'm still on Holiday, but right at the end of it.
I'll need to reread things now that I'm official part of the game, but I think HtS and n00b are pretty much for sure town for how D1 played out. MD is also very likely town, but his posting sucks.
I'll be back a little later to share some scum reads.
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On July 13 2015 08:05 silentwarrior wrote:Hey guys, good lynch. As of now, I think that, aside from those who voted on sulfurus, these two are town: Grokken and MoosyDoosy. MoosyDoosy is a little obvious, sulfurus woulnd't go for him if he was another mafia. And a sacrifice here seems unlikely, seeing as MoosyDoosy was nowhere a done deal, so he could have been saved still. Sulfurus getting on the MoosyDoosy train seems like a way to just vote on the most popular one and slip by. He basically admitted to doing this even. Then Grokken is because of this post: Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:
I figure it's time for me to make an actual post now that the thread is getting more active.
Sulfurus:
Has made a few posts, but only one-liners and contentless posts. I know you are here and reading the thread, why not try to post something more useful? Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean. He pings sulfurus as a scum lean fairly early, before any of the recent suspicion started. That means that most likely that they aren't mafia partners, as mafia will not give scumlean to their own partners when there is no other big suspicion on him. This leads me to believe that he is town as well.
Actually, I think that "when there is no other big suspicion on him" is a good time to scumlean a mafia teammate. Because it's unlikely that anything will come of it in the near term. And if something does come of it later, you'd be able to say "I was scumreading that guy since Day 1!"
That post from Grokken is probably a point in his favor, but it still leaves plenty of room for error.
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On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote:
I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me.
Also, i get a townvibe from wonnaplay.
Of course, I could be all wrong about this, and mafia decided to sacrifice sulfurus, but dont really think so right now. Regardless, those reamaining that I think the mafia is among is : scott31337, GhandiEAGLE, NydusHerMain. One or two of these three are probably mafia.
Okay, so apparently I don't agree with much that silentwarrior has to say during Night 1.
"Second on scum list" is a fairly commonplace spot for mafia to put their teammates. Say that he looks scummy (in case he gets lynched) but don't actually try to get him lynched, because someone else is first on your scum list.
And for you to be "all wrong about this" doesn't really require mafia to have sacrificed Sulfurus. He could have been lynched against their will, and your reads could still be wrong anyway.
Of course, you having reads that are different from mine doesn't make you scum (and doesn't even make you wrong)...but I still don't have to like it!
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On July 12 2015 01:02 scott31337 wrote:
Good Morning... Let me wake up a bit more and re-read, but I don't see a whole lot to go on so far that sticks out at me - except a slight town lean on Fidei.
This is literally scotts only post, and it is wierd that he would say he needs to reread anything on the 3rd page of the game.
I'm used to town!scott being more involved, so I'm thinking he rolled scum this game.
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On July 13 2015 09:22 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 08:12 n00bKing wrote: Half the Sky wrote:
If there's a DT, check any of the lurkers/nulls - NHM/Scott/SW/WP Would be interested in hearing opinions from others, on whether this would be the best use of a Cop's ability. Well here's the thing, there are two ways to play this, if there is a DT in this game. Clearing lurkers or red checking them will help you in LYLO - as scum will push a certain way through a game and then boom late game clearing people may catch them off guard. Alternatively you can also look at people whose current behaviour (if reasonably active) are soemwhat questionable or you cannot get a good read on them or if they appear controversial (like some people are townreading and others are scumreading) then they are also good checks. Given the current game state, I think for example Grokken would be a good check in this category.
You were who I was talking to when I said I would be interested in hearing opinions from "others." So by "others" I mean anyone BUT you.
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On July 13 2015 09:38 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 08:17 MoosyDoosy wrote:
nonono Sulfurus was busing me. I'm Mafia too guys plz kill me. XD
Alright down to business. Apparently my bait was successful although I wasn't around to catch the slip from Sulfurus. Glad to see that Half the Sky caught it. I'm going to actually work from here on out. Re-reading the thread seriously. anyhow....if you are town, you are in a good position to tell us who the scummers - if any - were on your wagon. Who do you think they were?
He's in an even BETTER position to tell us, if he's scum! :D
MoosyDoosy wrote: tbh I have 2 suspicions but I'd rather wait. If I'm right, I'd rather not say it and die.
So you don't want to be night-killed? You only want to be mislynched?
Don't worry, there's no chance of the bad guys killing you, no matter what suspicions you want to share. You could name the other 2 mafia members, which one has which role, their social security numbers, and what dinner plans they have for tonight, and they still are not killing you.
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On July 13 2015 21:37 Half the Sky wrote:
Grokken's thread sentiment point I did query that earlier and I think noob, you mentioned that too, do you think this response makes sense for the read change? Not sure if you missed it.
I did see it, but that response doesn't really move me either way. Does that answer make sense? Yeah, some. But we could expect him to give an answer that would make at least SOME sense. It's a little early in the game for him to be getting tangled up in his own posts yet, so it isn't like I was hoping he would say "Yep, I changed my read cuz thread sentiment!"
So while I'm slightly suspicious of Grokken, that POST is null, for me. Did it cause any reaction in you?
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On July 14 2015 02:22 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 09:38 Half the Sky wrote:On July 13 2015 08:17 MoosyDoosy wrote:
nonono Sulfurus was busing me. I'm Mafia too guys plz kill me. XD
Alright down to business. Apparently my bait was successful although I wasn't around to catch the slip from Sulfurus. Glad to see that Half the Sky caught it. I'm going to actually work from here on out. Re-reading the thread seriously. anyhow....if you are town, you are in a good position to tell us who the scummers - if any - were on your wagon. Who do you think they were? He's in an even BETTER position to tell us, if he's scum! :D Show nested quote +MoosyDoosy wrote: tbh I have 2 suspicions but I'd rather wait. If I'm right, I'd rather not say it and die. So you don't want to be night-killed? You only want to be mislynched? Don't worry, there's no chance of the bad guys killing you, no matter what suspicions you want to share. You could name the other 2 mafia members, which one has which role, their social security numbers, and what dinner plans they have for tonight, and they still are not killing you.
You're right. I am scum. I was going to start participating but you just killed off my drive. Forget the epitaph folks. Let's continue to be a shitty townie!
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On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:I figure it's time for me to make an actual post now that the thread is getting more active. Sulfurus: Has made a few posts, but only one-liners and contentless posts. I know you are here and reading the thread, why not try to post something more useful? Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean. WonnaPlay: Should post so we know you're still alive. n00bKing I was just about to say that you haven't said anything of substance, but then I refresh the thread and there you are! You made some good points and seem to come to similar conclusions as I do, slight townread. Fidei86: Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 09:14 Fidei86 wrote:
So I guess I'll dive in first, since the game needs to start somewhere.
My opinion on the ideal town environment is that it is one where everyone contributes, but nobody spams. The best way for townies to get town-read by other townies is to be active, to discuss things and to give your opinion freely. If you're lurking as town, you're actively hurting your own team. Even if you don't say much and make it to the later rounds, and even if you solve the game, you're an easy mislynch if your filter is only one or two pages long.
However, at the same time, too much back and forth leads to the thread becoming unmanageable for players with less time -- essentially allowing mafia to hide in amongst the noise. I don't want to over-traffic cop, and I'm hopeful it's not going to be a big problem this game, but ... there it is. I checked the Himalayas thread, and it's true that there was a huge volume of posts. It seems reasonable to me that he wants to avoid spam in this game. Post makes sense to me, good advice for new players too I think he seems towny overall, posts a decent amount and keeps the thread active without spamming nonsense. Doesn't seem afraid to post what he thinks. silentwarrior: silentwarrior is living up to his name, as someone said earlier. NydusHerMain: Only real post is a random vote for Fidei. Seems inactive for now, lets wait until he gets back. MoosyDoosy: Has made some good posts in my opinion. In particular I agree with the following post: Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 05:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know). I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for. I was going to bring this up myself, but seems like you beat me to it. Although the defense is good, I think it would be better to just let me defend myself, especially because I haven't really posted much before now. MoosyDoosy is a townread for me. TJHuggins: Seems like town to me. He identifies me as someone who has no clue what to post, which is pretty accurate considering this is my first online mafia game (my only previous experience is some IRL mafia just before I signed up for this one). I think it makes sense as town to pressure inexperienced players, and try to make them slip up while defending themselves. Grokken: Thats me. Open Slots: scott31337: Seems to be lurking, no real contribution so far. Half the Sky: Seems like town to me. She (?) has made quite a few posts, with a lot of content and some good points. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that she defended me for seemingly no reason. GhandiEAGLE: He says that there isn't much to go by day 1. He hasn't really contributed too much, but the posts he has made feels slightly towny to me. He made a point to flush out the lurkers, which seems like a good idea. KelsierSC spamspamspamspamspamspamspam, don't know what to think. In conclusion, I think we should try to lynch one of the people who is keeping up with the thread, but aren't making useful contributions. These people are in my opinion more likely to be mafia rather than the people who aren't saying anything at all. At this point, these people are Sulfurus, scott31337 and KelsierSC. This is the first time I make a post like this one, sorry if the formatting is bad.
While this list post seemed to be early to the party, I think its overall not that bad. The reasons for Grok's reads are decent for how little had occured at that point in the game. Between this and one of his earlier posts that seemed casual and jokey I'm comfterable adding him to my town reads.
Oh also I doubt he would make a list post like this that calls out Sulf so early if he were mafia.
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I can only do a one quote post atm since I'm on mobile, which wont work so well for Ghandi but I'm also willing to add him to my town reads for now. He had multiple posts I liked that pushed a towny agenda.
Going out for dinner now, will get back to this later when I am able.
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On July 14 2015 02:16 Tictock wrote:
This is literally scotts only post, and it is wierd that he would say he needs to reread anything on the 3rd page of the game.
I'm used to town!scott being more involved, so I'm thinking he rolled scum this game.
Yeah, I made the same comment, about it being strange for him to say he needs to "re-read" when we had only just started. Scott COULD be scum here, but man...just how much "mailing it in" can we expect from one scum team? Sulf had like 5 posts, and Scott has 1? That's their gameplan?
Ticktock wrote: Oh also I doubt he [Grokken] would make a list post like this that calls out Sulf so early if he were mafia.
Still think "Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean" is not much of a call-out. But I wouldn't push for a vigilante shot on Grokken or anything. So there will be more time to evaluate him. (Though I may not be around for that, since I've been killed on Night 1 in 100% of my TL Mafia games! And Fidei requesting that HtS receive protection clears the way for my demise!)
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I'm so sorry I forgot to vote guys - deadline and other things blew right by me. Let me catch up and post my thoughts.
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I just saw the GF got lynched - nniiccee
That's a nice vote count too - gives us a boatload of information.
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FINAL VOTE COUNT
Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy
I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top.
I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy.
TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
can't you call me mafia instead
it was funny when WonnaPlay tried to do that as he called me town
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On July 14 2015 03:03 scott31337 wrote:
I'm so sorry I forgot to vote guys - deadline and other things blew right by me.
All that posting you were doing in your other game didn't remind you that you were in this game?
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On July 14 2015 02:00 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 08:05 silentwarrior wrote:Hey guys, good lynch. As of now, I think that, aside from those who voted on sulfurus, these two are town: Grokken and MoosyDoosy. MoosyDoosy is a little obvious, sulfurus woulnd't go for him if he was another mafia. And a sacrifice here seems unlikely, seeing as MoosyDoosy was nowhere a done deal, so he could have been saved still. Sulfurus getting on the MoosyDoosy train seems like a way to just vote on the most popular one and slip by. He basically admitted to doing this even. Then Grokken is because of this post: On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:
I figure it's time for me to make an actual post now that the thread is getting more active.
Sulfurus:
Has made a few posts, but only one-liners and contentless posts. I know you are here and reading the thread, why not try to post something more useful? Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean. He pings sulfurus as a scum lean fairly early, before any of the recent suspicion started. That means that most likely that they aren't mafia partners, as mafia will not give scumlean to their own partners when there is no other big suspicion on him. This leads me to believe that he is town as well. Actually, I think that "when there is no other big suspicion on him" is a good time to scumlean a mafia teammate. Because it's unlikely that anything will come of it in the near term. And if something does come of it later, you'd be able to say "I was scumreading that guy since Day 1!" That post from Grokken is probably a point in his favor, but it still leaves plenty of room for error.
Maybe its a newbie thing, but usually mafia will try to not mention their partners, and do so only in positive ways, to avoid them being lynched. I think they would focus more on helping each other survive the lynch rather than be ready for their death. I do see your point however. They will atleast not give scumreads to partners that early in game.
On July 14 2015 02:13 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote:
I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me.
Also, i get a townvibe from wonnaplay.
Of course, I could be all wrong about this, and mafia decided to sacrifice sulfurus, but dont really think so right now. Regardless, those reamaining that I think the mafia is among is : scott31337, GhandiEAGLE, NydusHerMain. One or two of these three are probably mafia. Okay, so apparently I don't agree with much that silentwarrior has to say during Night 1. "Second on scum list" is a fairly commonplace spot for mafia to put their teammates. Say that he looks scummy (in case he gets lynched) but don't actually try to get him lynched, because someone else is first on your scum list. And for you to be "all wrong about this" doesn't really require mafia to have sacrificed Sulfurus. He could have been lynched against their will, and your reads could still be wrong anyway. Of course, you having reads that are different from mine doesn't make you scum (and doesn't even make you wrong)...but I still don't have to like it!
Yeah, I see your point, didn't think of that. As I said before, the list that he posted was after sulfurus was already tagged by Half the sky, so he could have just done the second on scum list thing.
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On July 13 2015 23:36 Half the Sky wrote:Fidei, on TJH - (going to spoiler quotes for readability) + Show Spoiler [initial read] +On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. This post, there's an agenda in the sense that this read lacks context. First quote was part of a joke between him and Ghandi, and nothing should be made of it and TJH tried to. Second quote, there was reason to question NHM and that question isn't for naught. Overall he's making something out of nothing. I also feel he did the same thing when he tried to pin Fidei for the wording on MD earlier. + Show Spoiler [followup - "town prodding"] +On July 12 2015 03:10 TJHuggins wrote:
I agree that it was grokken's town prodding question that got me suspicious of him in the first place. Then right after he says "this posts doesn't really offer anything" he then says it's a "town prodding question" (which noob called him out for anyways) so then why did he say before that it doesn't really offer anything? The wording association between those two quotes is really awkward. + Show Spoiler [comment on Sulfurus] +On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. Now TJH already had Sulfurus as 2 on his list of scummies so why would he need to reread it - additionally there was nothing Sulfur even said on MD which was the biggest issue I had. + Show Spoiler [Kelsier scumread] +On July 12 2015 23:16 TJHuggins wrote:Kelsier, I'm wondering if you would care to explain what factors weighed in on your decision here to vote for Wonnaplay as opposed to Grokken when from your previous post it appears you considered them equally scummy for the same reason? On July 12 2015 23:18 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 22:43 WonnaPlay wrote:
"Sheep me, I'm good at this game" or "I act as scum and see if anyone bites, then I attack them" - Onegu Card?
So basically Kelsier is trying to get newer players to attack him, because he is sowing nonsense. To see if other people just blatantly follow those new players, which means that those followers or "sheep" are probably mafia players looking to get an easy kill?
If this is what he's doing, then I think that his posts make more sense indeed, however I think it's provoking the wrong reactions in a newbie game.
I think it's more like: Act like a fool and get town read for it. This one is pretty simple - he appears scumread Kelsier and then he drops that read altogether in his lynch list. Or at least it's not clear why he dropped him or where he stands on him now. TLDR - there's a bit of awkward progression and grasping for straws with the scumreads he's putting in. Also his reaction post-lynch was a bit more subdued and I'm ignoring the issues he's had with the mods, I'm more specifically talking about the "mod error I'll take it" post.
Most of this makes me say "meh" but there aren't any cases being presented on any other players (yet) that I find more compelling. So it just goes to show that there isn't POWERFUL evidence against anyone right now. (Which is probably normal, on Night 1.)
What I didn't like about TJ was that he made absolutely no effort whatsoever to read (or even interact with) the only person in the game that he knew before the game started. If I were Town, and was in a game with a bunch of strangers + ONE person I knew quite well, then without a doubt my early focus would be on interacting with that person, to try and get a read on them, because I know things about their personality and mannerisms that may not be known by anyone else on my team. TJ doesn't do this at all.
Conversely, if I were scum in that situation, I might make a point of avoiding that person, because they know things about MY personality and mannerisms that may not be known by anyone else in the Town. And I might steer clear of them (possibly without even realizing I'm doing it) to keep them from getting a read on me.
From reading his filter, it's obvious which route TJ went on this issue. So if I'm killed tonight, I think you guys should make a point of questioning TJ on this. And if he has what seems to be a perfectly reasonable explanation for that behavior, then great! However, if all he can give you is some line about "I knew NHM was afk for real-life reasons, so I didn't bother to try and talk to him, because I knew it would be pointless" then...NOT IMPRESSED.
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Ok back from dinner and going to finish my catching up while I pack for my flight tomorrow.
On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191)I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.") I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play.
So this was an interesting post to me. TJ had made one postregarding MD before where he scum read him, but decideds to vote him here. Nothing in his read had changed but now MD has votes on him which seems to make TJ more comfterable voting on him.
This along with other posts suggest to me that TJ is pushing an agenda over hunting for scum. I know HtS also made a case on him that I liked, but I need to reread it before I comment on her case.
I'm torn about TJ's EoD reaction. On the one hand I dont think scum would post like that In game over in their QT, but on the other hand I don't see town getting so worked up over that host mistake when it meant we lynched scum. The mistake had been discussed a fair bit as well (that MD cannot vote for himself) so it should not have been a suprise, yet he seemed genuinely upset that MD's vote on himself was not counted.
In addition TJ's reaction to that EoD seemed a lot like Sulf's reaction which raises some flags.
So, yea TJ is my top scum read atm.
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Dinner - where I am currently:
Town: Fidei, myself, NK
Probable town: KSC
Town lean/maybe town: MD
Null:
Ghandi,
WP (cracking his latest post)
Scott (scumreads pending)
Grokken
Tictock (replacement/additional material pending)
Scumlean: SW (latest post okay, but possible distancing d1?)
Probable scum: TJHuggins (aforementioned)
Would like to see where some of you are getting the Ghandi town reads - still at null for me and I can't see where the clear town agenda is coming from. The policy lynch post/stance can easily be said by scum, unless people are light townreading him for his tone at the game's opening.
This post is noncommittal. From a town perspective it may be understandably so or he could be scum struggling for a read.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=9#162
SW I have one reservation on him. There might be some distancing going on. I checked his filter again. There wasn't a weigh in on MD although the only thing SW said d1 was that he'd rather NHM over MD get lynched. However, look at his filter - first 5 posts on first page of his filter were before the lynch. His two posts on voting NHM were after my Sulfurus tag, and he makes zero mention one way or other on Sulfurus. Furthermore looking at votes, scum do and can hide on as solo votes, and a bit more apparent in newbie games (veterans are a bit more careful) so seeing SW solo voting nhm might be something to think about.
If he posted his vote/observation on NHM before my tag or if he'd taken any stance on Sulfurus I'd have less reason to suspect him, but him not appearing to take a stance at all on Sulfurus is a red flag. (His last post prior to EoD was 56m prior to lynch, and returned 1h after lynch, first stance on Sulfur was 1h25m after lynch.)
So alone his latest post may be wrong but that combined with a solo vote and lack of a stance anywhere prior to lynch has me reason to slight scumlean him for now. If TJH should happen to flip scum subsequently then SW becomes to me, that more suspicious.
Sidenote - you said dinner Tictock? Sounds like you are in Europe? Whereabouts? Safe travels home tomorrow in any case.
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On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote:
Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:
1. MoosyDoosy
2. Sulfuras
3. Grokken
Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)
If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.
This post caught my eye as well. TJ spent at least one whole post saying why he felt MD and Grok were scum, yet suddenly Sulf just shows up 2nd in his list here, and gives no explanation for it.
This was after n00b and HtS started pushing Sulf as another possible lynch.
Btw, thats why I'm reading HtS and n00b as town since there is no chance they were bussing a teammate in that situation.
I'm reluctant to fully read Fidei as town right now... Like TJ, Fidei seemed to be ignoring Sulf up till this time in the game. However fidei was all too happy to jump on that wagon ... So he still gets a solid town lean.
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Also, Heya to Scott and Fidei.
Kinda jumping in so wanted to get myself on some better footing with reads right off the bat, but always nice to see familiar faces... Er nametags?
@ HtS
I am currently in Geneva, but tonight is my last night here. Will be boarding a flight tomorrow morning back to the States.
I'm visiting my dad who moved out here a few years ago ( he works for the WMO), and did a crazy trip over the past week. We've been here in Geneva, Germany, and also Poland. Technically France as well but only for a short bit today.
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Deadline is in 15 minutes send me your actions if you havent already done so
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On July 14 2015 02:48 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 02:16 Tictock wrote:
This is literally scotts only post, and it is wierd that he would say he needs to reread anything on the 3rd page of the game.
I'm used to town!scott being more involved, so I'm thinking he rolled scum this game. Yeah, I made the same comment, about it being strange for him to say he needs to "re-read" when we had only just started. Scott COULD be scum here, but man...just how much "mailing it in" can we expect from one scum team? Sulf had like 5 posts, and Scott has 1? That's their gameplan? Show nested quote +Ticktock wrote: Oh also I doubt he [Grokken] would make a list post like this that calls out Sulf so early if he were mafia. Still think "Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean" is not much of a call-out. But I wouldn't push for a vigilante shot on Grokken or anything. So there will be more time to evaluate him. (Though I may not be around for that, since I've been killed on Night 1 in 100% of my TL Mafia games! And Fidei requesting that HtS receive protection clears the way for my demise!)
You are correct it is not much of a call out, however Sulf was the first person he listed as his scumreads.
I just dont see scum making a list post that early that lists a teammate so highly on the list.
I might be giving him too much credit for that, but its stronger than a meta or tone read imo.
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On July 14 2015 03:52 scott31337 wrote: FINAL VOTE COUNT Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, NoobkingMoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top. I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy. TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy
This is probably very solid. Very unlikely that mafia buss their teammate in this situation when MD is another option.
The only situation where things get tricky is if MD is in fact mafia as well here...
Seems unlikely to me, but also means MD is an ok Cop check.
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Day 2
KeiserSC the Vanilla Town has been shot.
Reminder voting is mandatory. Voting is done here.
Day ends in
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Considering scum want maximum capital and some were semi-doubting KSC. I find the NK unusual.
Could be a medic dodge if there is a medic in the setup.
Only other thing I can think of if KSC was on to someone that no one else was. That is another angle.
Nightkills are WIFOM but it's to look at all angles.
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Humm yea KSC was not who I expectedto see NK'd.
Looks like a medic dodge to me for sure. Don't recall KSC having very solid reads on anyone.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
set up cabin, lynch mafia, get NK'd
ez fucking game
GG yo , good luck town
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Also I have been roleblocked. I just received note of this.
This means a medic dodge is possible and the prot role is a medic. In randomised open setups, if there is roleblockable veteran in the setup, usually the RB and NK actions are stacked on the target to avoid chancing hitting the veteran. The fact that the nightactions were on separate targets, indicates that the prot role is likely to be a medic.
(It should also be of note that scum already know the setup from the off, so me discussing this doesn't give them any extra advantage.)
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On July 14 2015 06:40 Tictock wrote:
@ HtS
I am currently in Geneva, but tonight is my last night here. Will be boarding a flight tomorrow morning back to the States.
I'm visiting my dad who moved out here a few years ago ( he works for the WMO), and did a crazy trip over the past week. We've been here in Geneva, Germany, and also Poland. Technically France as well but only for a short bit today.
Very nice. I hope you enjoyed your holiday! Sounds like a blast.
Speaking of life on the road, I'm headed to Munich for work in about 3 weeks time after a trip to the States (specifically NYC) starting Friday for 3 weeks (again for work) so I'm headed for a very interesting road trip myself.
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On July 14 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 06:40 Tictock wrote:
@ HtS
I am currently in Geneva, but tonight is my last night here. Will be boarding a flight tomorrow morning back to the States.
I'm visiting my dad who moved out here a few years ago ( he works for the WMO), and did a crazy trip over the past week. We've been here in Geneva, Germany, and also Poland. Technically France as well but only for a short bit today. Very nice. I hope you enjoyed your holiday! Sounds like a blast. Speaking of life on the road, I'm headed to Munich for work in about 3 weeks time after a trip to the States (specifically NYC) starting Friday for 3 weeks (again for work) so I'm headed for a very interesting road trip myself.
Very cool, I have not had the chance to visit NYC myself, but that should be a fun trip.
Hopefully its not all work and you get some time to Play! (No I'm not talking about Mafia :p )
If you are ever in Colorado feel free to drop me a PM.
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Ok I need to head to bed, and I'm not sure how much I'll be around tomorrow so going to drop my vote now.
##Vote: TJHuggins
I've already made a few posts explaining my read on him and HtS also made a semi case.
I'm not sure who the other scum might be but my gut tells me it's not Grok (also I have a town read on Grok) and is one of the non-voters. Just not sure who yet.
I will be back home before the end of D2 so fear not, I shall return.
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Almost forgot. Scum could have been bluehunting and KSC was more subdued than usual. Sometimes blue roles do hang back. That could explain the shot too. Interesting.
Without further ado...
##vote TJHuggins
Will return tomorrow.
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Surprised they actually went after Kelsier. At least it confirms my worry that he jumped on Sulfurus as scum to try and assure his own safety; I was just about to post about that, especially since I had a totally unjustifiable scum meta read on him.
By the way, TJH isn't scum to me. He was an early bird on the Sulfurus scum train. That won't be enough to make me think he's town, but it is enough to give me pause before lynching him Day 2. Not ready to jump on that train.
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edit: it confirms that Kelsier did NOT do that
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On July 14 2015 07:54 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Surprised they actually went after Kelsier. At least it confirms my worry that he jumped on Sulfurus as scum to try and assure his own safety; I was just about to post about that, especially since I had a totally unjustifiable scum meta read on him.
By the way, TJH isn't scum to me. He was an early bird on the Sulfurus scum train. That won't be enough to make me think he's town, but it is enough to give me pause before lynching him Day 2. Not ready to jump on that train.
???
TJH actually said *nothing* about Sulfurus, except adding him at #2 to his 'scum list' out of nowhere, and then being angry we didn't lynch Moosy. He voted for Moosy. To say he was "an early bird on the Sulfurus Train" is just totally wrong.
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I think Moosy is either playing a really abysmal town, or is scum. I'm still not sold enough to vote (I realize I say that a lot), but honestly constantly deflecting suspicion with sarcasm. Despite that sarcasm, he doesn't do shit for the town.
On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says.
Why did this happen? It made little sense to ask me, other than I was one of the few early proactive people on the thread and it would make sense to get me on his side. He had no real reason to ask me specifically here, and no real reason to believe that my opinions would hold much weight.
On July 12 2015 02:53 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :| Exactly what I was thinking. His first post seems to be more of a first page banter post. The second one is asking for clarification although as you say, it leads nowhere. But then again, newer players have a tendency to ask for clarification without having a drive behind it. Any thoughts on the suspicion of you Ghandi? :3
There it is again. No reason to be prodding me except that he might suspect that I'm scum (unlikely at that point in the thread), or he's trying to deflect conversations, looking like he moves conversation forward, without actually doing so.
Then he didn't vote, which I didn't either because I forgot about the separate voting thread. So this is excusable because I suck :/
Also, he constantly uses emoticons, which I distrust by nature and generally indicate self-consciousness (I'm not kidding it often points to mafia). Never trust an emoticon.
The rest of his filter is absolute trash, by the way. Nothing helpful at all; all of his posts constantly criticize other people for suspecting him, while offering literally zero content to push the town forward. If he isn't scum, I'd still policy lynch him Day 3 since based_HTS gave us plenty of time. I need meaningful contribution from Moosey or I'm not likely moving off of my vote without heavy evidence on someone else.
##Vote: MoosyDoosy
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Hey guys, good job on the lynch. Sorry for not being around.
On July 13 2015 05:15 Sulfurus wrote:So as far as I am concerned Moosy has killed himself and talking about him is a waste of time, which ironically makes Kelsier the most productive town since he moved the conversation to something actually important. Anyway I noticed that HTS came to Grokk's defense against an accurate post on him even after calling Grokk out for blatantly reversing his read on Moosy just to fit thread sentiment. What's up with that?
Sulfurus made this post, and voted for MD. This could mean 2 things:
1. He thinks his scumbuddy is done for, and is bussing him for town cred.
2. Is mindlessly wagoning him to get an easy townlynch.
I'm not very impressed with his Sulfs day 1 overall. He did nothing to establish himself as a townie, and then slips up with the post above, resulting in getting caught. With 4 votes for MD, his lynch was far from decided, so I don't think bussing is probable. I think option 2 is much more likely.
So despite MD's clowny posts earlier, I have to lean town on him.
If MD is town, HtS/Fidei/n00bking are also confirmed as town, for obvious reasons.
On July 13 2015 08:05 silentwarrior wrote:Hey guys, good lynch. As of now, I think that, aside from those who voted on sulfurus, these two are town: Grokken and MoosyDoosy. MoosyDoosy is a little obvious, sulfurus woulnd't go for him if he was another mafia. And a sacrifice here seems unlikely, seeing as MoosyDoosy was nowhere a done deal, so he could have been saved still. Sulfurus getting on the MoosyDoosy train seems like a way to just vote on the most popular one and slip by. He basically admitted to doing this even. Then Grokken is because of this post: Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:
I figure it's time for me to make an actual post now that the thread is getting more active.
Sulfurus:
Has made a few posts, but only one-liners and contentless posts. I know you are here and reading the thread, why not try to post something more useful? Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean.
He pings sulfurus as a scum lean fairly early, before any of the recent suspicion started. That means that most likely that they aren't mafia partners, as mafia will not give scumlean to their own partners when there is no other big suspicion on him. This leads me to believe that he is town as well.
At this point, I'm far from confirmed town. Peoples reads on me seem to be fairly neutral. Therefore, the above post makes me think SW is town. If SW was mafia, why would he be townreading me? I think it would be more mafia-like for him to try to cast suspicion on me in order to get me mislynched.
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I think that there is actually a fairly decent chance that Ghandi is scum here. Reasons:
1. His entire filter is filler and waffle. He defends Grokken, but then backtracks from giving a read.he promised to give his reads, then didn't.
2. He talks a bit about the difficulty of getting good reads in the first day, then says he wants to flush out lurkers but not vote for them.
3. He apologises for being inactive but then does nothing about it.
4. This is a bit of a stretch, but I think it makes most sense for a more experienced player to NK Kelsier. Assuming Mafia were scared off NKing HTS or n00b (both obvious medic saves), why go after Kelsier, unless you knew he was a strong player/knows he knows your meta.
5. The total lie he just told about TJH.
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Note: I don't really think Moosy is mafia. I want him to help or get out.
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Filler and waffle is over, I've started making legit posts again. TJH wasn't a lie, I just misread the filter page. My inactivity is also clearly over.
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6. His case on Moosy just screams mislynch wagon. It's so massively unlikely that both d1 wagons were scum, I don't think it's worth entertaining, at least for now. Grokken's reasoning above is sound. Looking like TJH and Ghandi might be the scum team here.
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I already said I don't really want to lynch Moosy unless he keeps shitposting tomorrow, and at that point its a policy lynch. Also, talking about the likelihood of both D1 wagons being scum is irrelevant, just because it's unlikely doesn't mean that it justifies any of Moosy's play.
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On July 14 2015 08:12 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Filler and waffle is over, I've started making legit posts again. TJH wasn't a lie, I just misread the filter page. My inactivity is also clearly over.
Your first "legit" post is a total rehash of everything that has already been said on Moosy. And at the end you even say you don't even know if he's scum, you just want him out of the game?? I'm always down for policy lynching lurkers/people you don't want to take to Lylo early. But we now have a contested vote flip which STRONGLY indicates Moosy is town. Yes, he's clearly a destructive town, but town nonetheless.
I think you're Mafia.
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7. You joke vote Kelsier early (NAI). But then you don't vote in the thread, and your excuse is that you thought you'd already voted (ie you thought your vote in the thread stood). Firstly, that's stupid and surely not realistic from a player who has ever played before (hello 11k posts). But secondly, and more importantly, your first vote WAS A JOKE VOTE!! You never pushed Kelsier or really did anything else all of D1. You clearly didn't actually think he was scum, yet you thought you'd left your vote on him and you were okay with that? Please.
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This is just an aside while I'm looking through other stuff, but my post count is VERY much not from mafia experience lol. Don't mistake that for an indicator of experience.
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EBWOP
7. You joke vote Kelsier early (NAI) in the game thread. But then you don't vote in the voting thread, and your excuse is that you thought you'd already voted (ie you thought your vote in the game thread stood). Firstly, that's stupid and surely not realistic from a player who has ever played before (hello 11k posts). But secondly, and more importantly, your first vote WAS A JOKE VOTE!! You never pushed Kelsier or really did anything else all of D1. You clearly didn't actually think he was scum, yet you thought you'd left your vote on him and you were okay with that? Please.
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I think Fidei might be on to something, Ghandis post about MD is just rehashed arguments, he doesn't bring anything new to the table. He is also acting very defensively in the last few posts. He also said he didn't actually think MD is mafia, but still wants to policy-lynch him? I think we should try to lynch the mafia instead.
##vote GhandiEAGLE
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1) Fidei.
Town read; pushing me for my admittedly shitty posting when there was no real consideration of it earlier is pretty darn town.
2) WonnaPlay
Lurk City, hard to know if spooked or noob, but sketchy either way. Because its a noob game all lurkers basically stay in neutral range, instead of my usual neutral-lurker range.
3) N00bking.
Neutral; dont like his filter but he voted for sulfurus, so the two cancel each other out.
4) Silentwarrior.
Shit-tier read list, bandwagonning, lurking. Didn't vote Moosy N1, so neutral or bad scum imo.
5) NHM/Tictoc
Awful posting but apparently had an excuse so mleh. Tictoc says he's followed the game, and showed that he was present in the thread, but has yet to give anything meaningful to the game, so he's on my naughty list until something comes up. Most lurkers commit, but he's already poked his head recently.
6) Moosy
Shit town, prodding him to post better hopefully he actually does, otherwise lynch for derailing conversation. No more discussion on him because its also just derailing now. C'mon man shape up.
7) TJ Huggins
Bandwagonned on Moosy, pointed a lot of fingers, but generally been pretty baseless. This isn't quite a 180 of what I said earlier, because I said in my post that he wasn't scum to me. That hasn't changed; I should have clarified that I didn't think he was that innocent either, he's high up on my neutral list. Just not enough yet to vote on him.
8) Grokken.
Seems pretty sketchy to me. Need to chug through filter again, but voting on me even before Fidei did just feels like someone trying to stand out and be opportunistic. He didn't start the attack, so he doesn't assume culpability if I get lynched and I'm town. He also can't hold onto an accusation.
That said, he didn't fight Sulfurus being lynched; he voted Moosy but didn't protest Sulfurus' death. That doesn't mean, however, that he's not my scum read. Because he is.
9) HtS
Untouchable right now. No fun there :<
10) scottblahblahnumbers
The WORST kind of lurker, if he was maf, I'd be willing to bet he'd be more active, especially since he's not on the noob list; who plays mafia multiple times without wanting to actually participate? For that reasoning he's really town to me, but damn I hate how he's basically not in the game. It's frustrating.
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To sum up
Scummer read is hardest on Grokken,
Town for me definitively is HtS, Scott, and Fidei.
Too many people posting too little (me included, before ~20 minutes ago). Need more activity please.
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I disagree with your reads. How can you think MD is town, but still list n00bking as neutral? You mean he just casually bussed the GF? Also, what don't you like about his filter?
SW didnt vote for MD, which is neutral/scum, and I voted for MD which is also scummy?
Also, how can you say scott is "definitely" town after just 1 post?
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On July 14 2015 08:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
To sum up
Scummer read is hardest on Grokken,
Town for me definitively is HtS, Scott, and Fidei.
Too many people posting too little (me included, before ~20 minutes ago). Need more activity please.
The guy who has contributed the least (scott) is somehow definetly town for you? And your explanation about it is just bullshit, it makes no sense. I smell mafia here.
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On July 14 2015 08:11 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Note: I don't really think Moosy is mafia. I want him to help or get out.
If you don't think I'm Mafia then why the hell would you try and kill me. Like are you trying to waste a Day lynch on me so that Mafia can get a free kill? Or are you just trying to decrease the townie count for Mafia to win?
I won't even address you saying I didn't help because it was my trap with my shitty behavior in the first place which let us snag Sulfurus. I was kinda starting to believe that it wouldn't work but Sulf did slip. And in case you actually start to believe otherwise, I gave plenty of hints I was going to try something new this game which happened to be the trap. Why do you think my first post was "We are all sheep?" lol
Overall, your vote makes absolutely no sense unless you're trying to help Mafia. Either way, I'm completely fine with it. Waste your vote on me and see where it gets you.
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I just realized scott has made a couple more posts, disregard what I said about just having 1 post. Still doesn't change the fact that he has barely said anything though.
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Gonna go to bed now, but will seriosly analyze Ghandi and scott when I come back.
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By the way Moosy, what happened to the post you were gonna make the last minute of night?
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On July 14 2015 09:04 Grokken wrote:
By the way Moosy, what happened to the post you were gonna make the last minute of night?
I decided not to do it since n00bKing was right. There was >1% chance I was gonna die. It's better for Mafia to keep me alive since I'll attract people who are tunneled like Ghandi while I'm not doing anything for town right now besides my initial trap. I still have my thoughts but I prefer to keep them to myself until I find a slip.
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On July 14 2015 08:10 Fidei86 wrote:
I think that there is actually a fairly decent chance that Ghandi is scum here. Reasons:
1. His entire filter is filler and waffle. He defends Grokken, but then backtracks from giving a read.he promised to give his reads, then didn't.
2. He talks a bit about the difficulty of getting good reads in the first day, then says he wants to flush out lurkers but not vote for them.
3. He apologises for being inactive but then does nothing about it.
4. This is a bit of a stretch, but I think it makes most sense for a more experienced player to NK Kelsier. Assuming Mafia were scared off NKing HTS or n00b (both obvious medic saves), why go after Kelsier, unless you knew he was a strong player/knows he knows your meta.
5. The total lie he just told about TJH.
YES number 4 is exactly what I was thinking. The kill on Kelsier was definitely an attempt from Mafia to kill a blue role but this shows us that there HAS to be a veteran Mafia(s) who's thinking that far. Or the Mafia is completely clueless and we don't have much to fear.
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I am dealing with someone that is taking priority in real life right now so I do not have time to write out a big post. I will give the essential information that I can provide to town tomorrow. probably.
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On July 14 2015 09:24 TJHuggins wrote:
I am dealing with someone that is taking priority in real life right now so I do not have time to write out a big post. I will give the essential information that I can provide to town tomorrow. probably.
By essential information is that a blue claim? Or just something your saying.
Also in response to MD's most recent post, is there guarantee of an "experienced" mafia? I thought the roles were 100% randomized.
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On July 14 2015 09:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 09:24 TJHuggins wrote:
I am dealing with someone that is taking priority in real life right now so I do not have time to write out a big post. I will give the essential information that I can provide to town tomorrow. probably.
By essential information is that a blue claim? Or just something your saying. Also in response to MD's most recent post, is there guarantee of an "experienced" mafia? I thought the roles were 100% randomized.
There is no guarantee and roles are randomized but the conclusion I'm drawing is that there HAS to be an "experienced" mafia.
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On July 14 2015 06:55 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 03:52 scott31337 wrote: FINAL VOTE COUNT Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, NoobkingMoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top. I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy. TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy This is probably very solid. Very unlikely that mafia buss their teammate in this situation when MD is another option. The only situation where things get tricky is if MD is in fact mafia as well here... Seems unlikely to me, but also means MD is an ok Cop check.
Why is MD a cop check? Please explain more from your reasoning.
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I'm off in left field in this game but I think we almost have it solved - Sorry I'm not contributing much. HtS town love gives me a stiffy and normally she's not solid - <3
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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Day 2 Vote Count
TJHuggins(2): Ticktock, Half the Sky,
MoosyDoosy(1): GhandiEAGLE
GhandiEAGLE(1): Grokken
Not Voting(7): Fidei86, Noobking, WonnaPlay, scott31337, MoosyDoosy, TJHuggins, silentwarrior
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently Sulfurus is set to be lynched with 4 votes.
Day 1 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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On July 14 2015 08:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
9) HtS
Untouchable right now. No fun there :<
This is such a weird way to say you think HtS is town...
As others have pointed out that whole reads post seems really off as well. A lot of your reads seem to move in one direction but you conclude the opposite. Nothing is well explained either.
Like your Fidei read, hes voting for you and that makes him town? That makes little sense, if Ghandi is town then Fidei voting for him should make Ghandi worried that Fidei could be mafia not convince him he is town.
Also that lie/mistake about TJ feels really wierd too, Fidei might very well be onto something there.
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On July 14 2015 10:37 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 06:55 Tictock wrote:On July 14 2015 03:52 scott31337 wrote: FINAL VOTE COUNT Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, NoobkingMoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top. I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy. TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy This is probably very solid. Very unlikely that mafia buss their teammate in this situation when MD is another option. The only situation where things get tricky is if MD is in fact mafia as well here... Seems unlikely to me, but also means MD is an ok Cop check. Why is MD a cop check? Please explain more from your reasoning.
My reasoning was in the post you quoted.
MD is playing the role of easy lynchbait, which is why I am leaning town on him. His posts make little sense for scum, at least to me.
He was clearly being scum read by a lot of people however, and the only way we don't get a lot of confirmed town off the D1 votes is if MD is in fact mafia here.
Thus I was saying MD was an ok Cop check for those reasons. Since I posted that so close to the start of D2 I guess it was more of a "I can see why someone might Cop check MD" than " Someone should cop check MD"
Just in case we do have a Cop and before this discussion is brought up, there is no reason to claim just yet. It is better to hold off any claims till it benefits town more.
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Oh also, I'd like to remind people that there is no guarantee that the mafia team has experienced players on it.
Since this is a newbie game the scum team has a coach to help them make better choices. Thus a seemingly well thought out NK does not for sure mean there is a veteran player on the scum team, it could easily just mean they have a solid coach.
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@TT I do wish you'd stop misrepresenting me in this thread. This isn't the first time. First you said I hadn't mentioned Sulfurus before I jumped on. That's true to a degree, but I had said before that I was skeptical of the Moosy lynch and thought that any of the lurkers were good options. Then you say I'm voting for Ghandi, but I'm not, I'm just pushing him because I think he's scum. But this is very early in the day, and typically I give the day a little more time to unfold before actually voting (I'm never sure whether it's optimal to wait to vote or not - thinking about it now it's probably better to get my vote out early).
##Vote: Ghandi
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On July 14 2015 14:23 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 08:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
9) HtS
Untouchable right now. No fun there :<
This is such a weird way to say you think HtS is town... As others have pointed out that whole reads post seems really off as well. A lot of your reads seem to move in one direction but you conclude the opposite. Nothing is well explained either. Like your Fidei read, hes voting for you and that makes him town? That makes little sense, if Ghandi is town then Fidei voting for him should make Ghandi worried that Fidei could be mafia not convince him he is town. Also that lie/mistake about TJ feels really wierd too, Fidei might very well be onto something there.
I think it makes him town because, so far, the consensus was that I was neutral. There was a train starting on TJ, and pushing me there when there wasn't a large chance that a lot of people would follow seems like someone genuinely snooping for scum. Basically, to me he's either totally a townie or scumteam with TJ who was just looking for someone to re-orient the train onto. Honestly with that thinking, I think the most telling thing to do as to the alignment of Fidei would be to lynch TJ (scum makes Fidei more suspicious, town makes Fidei pretty clearly townie). I'm still not voting for TJ yet because Fidei is hardly the most pressing case when you look at some of the other people in the game right now, and I didn't think the bandwagon needed more momentum.
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On July 14 2015 09:13 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 09:04 Grokken wrote:
By the way Moosy, what happened to the post you were gonna make the last minute of night? I decided not to do it since n00bKing was right. There was >1% chance I was gonna die. It's better for Mafia to keep me alive since I'll attract people who are tunneled like Ghandi while I'm not doing anything for town right now besides my initial trap. I still have my thoughts but I prefer to keep them to myself until I find a slip.
Just say what your thoughts are, for the love of Christ! All this crap you CONTINUE to spout is driving me up the wall. All of the most vocal town players have you as town now, but your continued refusal to actually participate meaningfully in the game makes you easy lynchbait later on. If you're town - which I think you are - then you are actively hindering us at this point. Please think about that, and then give us your reads and generally just buck the hell up.
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Okay here is where I am right now. I'm phone posting this so it won't be peppered with links or anything, but usually I'd be asleep right now (up early for work).
Town:
Half The Sky - She started the Sulfurus wagon that nobody else was on, when we were happily about to lynch Moosy. Also, from a meta perspective, I don't see a scum HTS bussing a noob team mate when there was absolutely no reason to do so.
Strong Town-lean:
N00b - Again, I don't see any reason for n00b to start pinging out a scum buddy this early, particularly not where the vote circumstances were so close. Unless the scum team includes Moosy, I don't see a world in which n00b is Mafia.
Town-lean:
Grokken, WonnaPlay, Silent - I think we're going to struggle on these three because English isn't the first language for at least two of them, and they're all being pretty quiet. That said, from their filters, I don't see any particularly strong reason to scum read any of them. Their posting has read naturally (other than Silent's atrocious early posts, which I already flagged). That said, the all really need to up their games, as they will make reasonable lynch-bait as the game moves forward.
Moosy - This guy is driving me nuts. His play makes no sense whatsoever, from any perspective. He constantly promises reads then does not deliver, and is generally utterly useless. However, I think the vote outcome at d1 is pretty compelling. Sulfurus was indifferent to his death, when if it was a bus I think he would go for the town cried and bus properly.
Scum lean:
TJH - HTS covered this already, and it's clear at least a fair few people agree. This biggest indictment on him is his randomly including Sulfurus on his scum list without explanation, then being so indignant not only about the vote counting, but also about the vote in general, even though we hit scum.
Scott - Scott is an absolutely worthy policy lynch right now. We've bought a day with out d1 lynch, and I refuse to take someone with Scott's filter forward towards LYLO. Not only is it atrociously short, but it's also devoid of any meaningful content at all. It has been four days, bro, and even the guy in Geneva (TT), the Swede and the Netherlander have been able to get their thoughts out.
NHM/TT - I was scum reading NHM for both general inactivity and his weird thread entry, voting for me and also referring to me as "this guy" when we'd been bantering just before game start. TT has also been meh this far, but I might leave it to HTS to give me a good read, since I tunnelled TT so hard the last game we played together.
Scum:
Ghandi - his last post was like a roller coaster. His town lead on me was totally rational because he is right, everyone else has him as neutral and I think me calling him out is towny (but then I'm biased, obviously). But then he goes on to say that TJH is a good lynch to figure out my alignment, which is laughable because 1. Everyone is town reading me and nobody is discussing my lynch, and 2. shouldn't we be lunching people because they're scummy? Lynching someone everyone has a scum read on to give you information about someone everyone has a town read on is just bizarre. Then he finishes by saying he doesn't even want to vote for his scum read, because there isn't a wagon on me yet. WTF?
At work now, but I'll keep up to speed through the day.
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On July 14 2015 15:12 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I'm still not voting for TJ yet because Fidei is hardly the most pressing case when you look at some of the other people in the game right now, and I didn't think the bandwagon needed more momentum.
Yea... You're scum.
Fidei should have nothing to do with voting for TJ, you are the only person to be trying to make an association between the two. In my mind Fidei pushing on people other than TJ is great for town since there are still 2 scum left and there was no clear associations between Sulf and anyone. Pre-flip associations like this are terrible for town and likely scum modivated to push mislynches.
@ Fidei
Sorry you feel like I'm misrepresenting you, I suppose I should have typed pushing instead of voting. Doesn't seem like a big difference to me though since it was pretty clear where your head was at in regards to Ghandi.
Still, given our last game together I would find it odd if you weren't weary of me. So more town points for you.
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I'm waiting for my flight back to the States in Frankfurt at the moment so am around for the next hour or so if anyone wants to chat.
After this hour I will be in the air for about 10 hours, but I'll be checking in and whatnot when I arrive home tonight. I should be around for EoD as well assuming I'm not completely messed up by timezone stuff.
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Right now I'd be fine withh lynching either Ghandi or TJ today.
MD and Scott fall into somewhat null territory but with slight townreads. Scott made that one post where he put everyone on the Sulf wagon as town. Scum need to get town to lynch town, so listing that many people as town seems like a bad move for scum to make. Its not strong, but its enough for me to lean a little more town on Scott.
I need to filter dive SW as I have no idea about him yet, probably wont get a chance till after I get home though.
My town circle is the 3 remaining people who voted for Sulf. Probably never going to lynch these people:
HtS
n00b
Fidei
I'm still reading Grok as town also, but it isn't nearly as strong as the other 3.
Hope I didnt forget anyone.
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Frankfurt airport is awesome - look for the recline chairs with the charging points if you're in terminal 2. Very comfortable.
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@TT It looks like the only person we really disagree on is Scott, but there isn't that much between us on him. You've played with him more than I have so if you're town, I'd tend to rely upon your read on him over mine. I'm still very comfortable policy lynching him, though.
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Stuck over by the Z gates since its international. Was looking for a charging station for my gameboy but dont have the right voltage adaptor...
Hopefully there are some decent movies on the flight. On the way out here I watched the entire Hobbit trilogy, was kinda nice to see all 3 movies in one sitting.
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(Also, I should note, I tunnelled you hard and I was *right* ).
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On July 14 2015 19:20 Tictock wrote:
Stuck over by the Z gates since its international. Was looking for a charging station for my gameboy but dont have the right voltage adaptor...
Hopefully there are some decent movies on the flight. On the way out here I watched the entire Hobbit trilogy, was kinda nice to see all 3 movies in one sitting.
You can buy adaptors in terminal 2, so I'm sure you can dig them out in terminal 1 if you look hard enough...
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Well thats the thing isn't Fidei, Scott is still a pure policy lynch atm.
Pretty silly to lynch him when we both agree there are better targets. I'm reading him a little more town atm, but honestly the only game I played with him and he was Scum he dissapeared halfway through D1 due to loosing his internet. We got a bit lucky in policy lynching him D1 that game and I can't say I know his scum meta at all based on that.
Right now I'm fine giving him more time to pick his game up here. I assume he bit off more than he expected joining the Gaiden game, which was doing something like 100pages per day phase last I checked. So I can understand his weak posting here.
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That's fair enough, I suppose. I also don't think he's been very active in Gaiden, so he might have some RL issues going on. It doesn't exonerate him by any stretch, and I would still policy lynch him, but you've talked me down from actively pushing it for now.
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On July 14 2015 19:21 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 19:20 Tictock wrote:
Stuck over by the Z gates since its international. Was looking for a charging station for my gameboy but dont have the right voltage adaptor...
Hopefully there are some decent movies on the flight. On the way out here I watched the entire Hobbit trilogy, was kinda nice to see all 3 movies in one sitting. You can buy adaptors in terminal 2, so I'm sure you can dig them out in terminal 1 if you look hard enough...
And pay Airport prices for Electronics? No thanks.
Currently posting on an iPad which has several games on it plus I have a book I have yet to crack open,
I also am smuggling a large quantity of swiss chocolate, so if it comes to it I can break into that and ride the chocolate high all the way home :p
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On July 14 2015 19:32 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 19:21 Fidei86 wrote:On July 14 2015 19:20 Tictock wrote:
Stuck over by the Z gates since its international. Was looking for a charging station for my gameboy but dont have the right voltage adaptor...
Hopefully there are some decent movies on the flight. On the way out here I watched the entire Hobbit trilogy, was kinda nice to see all 3 movies in one sitting. You can buy adaptors in terminal 2, so I'm sure you can dig them out in terminal 1 if you look hard enough... And pay Airport prices for Electronics? No thanks. Currently posting on an iPad which has several games on it plus I have a book I have yet to crack open, I also am smuggling a large quantity of swiss chocolate, so if it comes to it I can break into that and ride the chocolate high all the way home :p
Become a lawyer, get paid, buy airport electronics. Three step plan for life success bro.
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On July 14 2015 19:28 Fidei86 wrote:
That's fair enough, I suppose. I also don't think he's been very active in Gaiden, so he might have some RL issues going on. It doesn't exonerate him by any stretch, and I would still policy lynch him, but you've talked me down from actively pushing it for now.
I stopped following Gaiden when I saw I was more than 150 pages behind, lol. So no comment regarding scotts posting there.
Given that HtS was roleblocked and there was no 2nd kill N1 I'm thinking we are in a Doc/Cop setup. So scott would be a solid Cop check if I'm right about that. The roleblock not being stacked with NK should mean there is no veteren. However, Setup speculation is pretty WIFOM however so prob best to not go down that thinking too far.
HtS can attest that my setup/role speculation has been very poor in the past as well, lol.
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Ok about to board my flight, see you all in ~10 hours.
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On July 12 2015 05:37 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 21:15 Half the Sky wrote:
noob why the vote on NHM? Can't tell whether your vote is a joke vote or not, the others I can. If the vote were a joke, I'm not sure what about it is supposed to be funny. Like...what's the joke? And my joke votes wouldn't go in the voting thread, and that one is in the voting thread. If you want to see a fake vote, you can look at the one on me from Sulfurus. He wastes space with a fakecheck and a fakevote, and then wastes more space by backreferencing them. That's all you get, from his first two posts. His third (and thus far, final) post is him essentially telling Moosy to "do stuff" without actually doing stuff himself. We get roughly the same amount of value from Kelsier's posts, in which he tells people to "start the game" without actually doing anything that would get the game going. If either of Kelsier/Sulfurus are town, they've already got a headstart on being useless town. Okay, so why the vote on NHM? Two reasons. 1) At the time that NHM votes, there is only ONE player who has really expressed any interest in progressing the game. Fidei86. He was the only one (to that point) who had made a legitimate, "let's start thinking about the actual game itself" type of post. And that is who NHM chooses to vote against: the one player who showed an indication that they might be taking the game seriously. 2) The other reason should not be revealed yet.
@n00bking Did you ever post your response to your point at paragraph 2? If you did, could you link/reference me? If you didn't, can you say now?
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I think that we can all agree (for the time being) that HtS, n00b and Fidei are most probably town.
That leaves a couple of others which raise alot of questions.
First I'd like to address that Ghandi's reasoning is all over the place. First he wants to flush out lurkers, because these are either scapegoats or newbies:
I'm saying we should get everyone to start talking because lurkers quickly become scapegoats, especially in newbie games where lurkers are often people who are just unsure of what to say.
But then later "defends" Scott (who is a veteran) for lurking :
On July 14 2015 08:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
10) scottblahblahnumbers
The WORST kind of lurker, if he was maf, I'd be willing to bet he'd be more active, especially since he's not on the noob list; who plays mafia multiple times without wanting to actually participate? For that reasoning he's really town to me, but damn I hate how he's basically not in the game. It's frustrating.
As I said earlier, I'm not really getting a good read from Ghandi, but he's becoming more scummy for me with almost every post.
On July 14 2015 19:10 Tictock wrote:
MD and Scott fall into somewhat null territory but with slight townreads. Scott made that one post where he put everyone on the Sulf wagon as town. Scum need to get town to lynch town, so listing that many people as town seems like a bad move for scum to make. Its not strong, but its enough for me to lean a little more town on Scott.
I completely disagree, it's just a copy/paste post with a sloppy conclusion. I think anyone can make such a summary and wouldn't affect the game at all. Since he's literally not adding anything to the discussion, this post (Scott's) feels very scumlike, instead of townie...
As I was unsure about NHM, I'm also pretty unsure about TickTock, I think more towny of him than I did with NHM, so for the time being I think it's important to prioritize others.
Top scumlist for me :
1] Scott - Gets defended by some people, without him having done anything. I think one of the people talking for him is atleast scum, defending scum. It would also explain the post Sulfurus made about "unvalid vote" and would even explain the night kill on Kelsier (if what you guys saying is true about veterans killing Kelsier).
He isn't even AFK, but because he's afraid from HtS and therefore he is lurking, which raises alarmbells all over the place for me..
2] Ghandi - too sketchy for my taste. The reason I don't have Ghandi on my #1 is that his list looks pretty decent. I'd agree on most points with him there, but who knows if he turns around again after that.. Also his conclusion on Scott being town is totally unwarranted. If Scott turns out to be scum, then Ghandi is one aswell.
3] TJH - made some weird posts during the end of the day regarding the votes, but I could see him being legitimately frustrated about his idea of different rules. I do think that HtS made some solid points, which I can't ignore since she was spot on in the last day. He's also very quiet since that day..
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@HtS : Probably a bit of a newbie question, but why did you immediately claim you had been Roleblocked?
Everyone pretty much trusts you at this moment, so claiming Roleblock doesn't add any strength to your township.
If someone else would claim RoleBlock and you were roleblocked this night, it would become your word against their word and then it's an easy lynch for all of us.
Was it so that it helps figuring out what the scum was thinking or do people just always claim roleblock?
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On July 12 2015 14:16 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 13:40 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
I'm losing all motivation to play this game. It's too goddamn big at this point and it's barely day 3.
I'm really hoping milo and scott are mafia because, if they're not, I'm afraid I'm never going to find more mafia.
Do we even have more scumreads outside of those two? This is a pretty bad idea - I just was filter diving on who talked about/with Damdred - You, Boxer, Trfel and Milo looked the worst, and Breshke, HalfTheSky and Vivax look much more interactive with him. What do you think of Boxerfred?
For everyone else this is the quote in question. Bottom of page 284.
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OH CHRIST, wrong game. Disregard.
I'm in Gaiden now but I will return here ASAP.
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On July 15 2015 00:14 WonnaPlay wrote:
@HtS : Probably a bit of a newbie question, but why did you immediately claim you had been Roleblocked?
Everyone pretty much trusts you at this moment, so claiming Roleblock doesn't add any strength to your township.
If someone else would claim RoleBlock and you were roleblocked this night, it would become your word against their word and then it's an easy lynch for all of us.
Was it so that it helps figuring out what the scum was thinking or do people just always claim roleblock?
I have a lot to add with analysis here but I will answer this question real quick. If you are roleblocked, always claim when RBs are notified. This is even more critical in semi-open setups (where you aren't 100% sure an RB exists).
Anyone should do it, though in this case I was not concerned about towncred. People TRYING to do it for towncred is another issue entirely.
1 It tells town what scum were thinking.
2 It confirms a medic (and not veteran in the game) because the targets had different actions on them. If there was a vet, KSC has a 10 percent chance of being vet and being one scumer down already, scum don't want to chance getting KP blocked.
3 If someone else claims roleblocked, it's 100% a scum claim - or at least I know that. If you don't believe me then when I flip, you'll know immediately to lynch the other person.
4 When RBs are notified it gives town information. RBs especially in late game confirm townies so you'll see scumteams (reference NSM10) hold their roleblocks and in extreme case (usually in a 4-man mylo or if they opt for a no lynch in mylo) scum can hold their KP.
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HTS we're all on tenterhooks waiting for your analysis.
(Well, I am at least ).
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Yeh sorry.....I'm working until 2200. I'm getting hosed this week prior to flying out to NYC.
But I will put aside some time to post.
Largely the TLDR version is that Ghandi looks significantly worse, Scott needs to fill in the gaps with his scumreads, his fear read on me is normal considering that he was on a scumteam where I (more or less) carried, and TJH is still poor, Grokken is slightly better, just skimming I need to get a firmer read on SW, WP and Tictock, the last of whom is concerning from a fear read (read: Holy Guardians) standpoint.
The real question for me is whether I want to lynch TJH or Ghandi.
WP seems okay for a newbie though. SW is the one I had a prior concern on.
I observed that game and I want to cross compare points from that game, but from what I recall, the big problem was that you had milo who was guilty of TMI, Chocolate and Templar were too easy to lynch because they WERE pretty scummy and then Damdred and VE were both playing suboptimally and Scott was also easily mislynched. So basically in this game the way to prevent that with any potential player is if the town stays cohesive it will be harder for scum to hide. There was a Dutch newbie who was playing pretty well enough to not get MLed (in fact he got NKed N2 which was weird in of itself) and ritoky was also doing well but those two were offed pretty quickly.
In a game where town plays suboptimally it will be much harder, based on meta you have to find out whether a player really believes someone is scum or is just trying to push an easy mislynch. Right now there aren't many standing out from the crowd so I'm thinking at this point in time Tic would be an easy read.
If there's something you recall from HG that jumps out to you regarding Tictock shout. I do need to look at him in detail.
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I also forgot....MoosyDoosy it IS possible he still could be scum using percentage play analysis from Sulfurus' end, but more likely than not given he qualified and breadcrumbed his trap, he's town.
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On July 14 2015 08:04 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 07:54 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Surprised they actually went after Kelsier. At least it confirms my worry that he jumped on Sulfurus as scum to try and assure his own safety; I was just about to post about that, especially since I had a totally unjustifiable scum meta read on him.
By the way, TJH isn't scum to me. He was an early bird on the Sulfurus scum train. That won't be enough to make me think he's town, but it is enough to give me pause before lynching him Day 2. Not ready to jump on that train. ??? TJH actually said *nothing* about Sulfurus, except adding him at #2 to his 'scum list' out of nowhere, and then being angry we didn't lynch Moosy. He voted for Moosy. To say he was "an early bird on the Sulfurus Train" is just totally wrong.
This is actually why TJH is more likely to be scum. He "safely" put Sulfurus name as second behind Moosy. You have an unexplained change in reads and furthermore there was no followup after the fact. Not impressed with this one (Ghandi, that is, not Fidei's quote.)
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On July 14 2015 08:09 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
The rest of his filter is absolute trash, by the way. Nothing helpful at all; all of his posts constantly criticize other people for suspecting him, while offering literally zero content to push the town forward. If he isn't scum, I'd still policy lynch him Day 3 since based_HTS gave us plenty of time. I need meaningful contribution from Moosey or I'm not likely moving off of my vote without heavy evidence on someone else.
##Vote: MoosyDoosy
I'm going to ignore the rest of this post because this actually speaks for itself - besides the points others brought up you aren't even taking into consideration why MoosyDoosy posted the way he did. I think the entire game agrees it is suboptimal but he's purposely putting himself as suboptimal and risked getting lynched to do that. Do you even remotely think it's likely scum would do that? He breadcrumbed his strategy.
And you don't ever do policy lynches D2 and beyond in TL games, ever. There are 100-year exceptions but this would not qualify as one of them.
And the waffling which others mentioned in comparison makes me realise you're trying to spare TJHuggins.
On July 14 2015 08:12 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Filler and waffle is over, I've started making legit posts again. TJH wasn't a lie, I just misread the filter page. My inactivity is also clearly over.
If you misread the filter page on TJH, you should also be changing your read. There is ZERO information from TJH on Sulfurus prior to the unexplained change in read. If you mis-read - then your read on him HAS to change if you are townie.
On July 14 2015 08:11 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Note: I don't really think Moosy is mafia. I want him to help or get out.
THEN YOU DON'T LYNCH HIM END OF. In case I wasn't clear the first time, and in the event you are a newbie.....
DO NOT POLICY VOTE D2 AND BEYOND. EVER. THERE IS MORE THAN SUFFICIENT INFORMATION (THE D1 VOTE TABLE FOR STARTERS) TO GET A PROPER SCUM LYNCH OFF.
On July 14 2015 08:15 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I already said I don't really want to lynch Moosy unless he keeps shitposting tomorrow, and at that point its a policy lynch. Also, talking about the likelihood of both D1 wagons being scum is irrelevant, just because it's unlikely doesn't mean that it justifies any of Moosy's play.
Then you shouldn't even be voting him. Find the remaining scummers if you aren't one of them.
On July 14 2015 08:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
1) Fidei.
Town read; pushing me for my admittedly shitty posting when there was no real consideration of it earlier is pretty darn town.
2) WonnaPlay
Lurk City, hard to know if spooked or noob, but sketchy either way. Because its a noob game all lurkers basically stay in neutral range, instead of my usual neutral-lurker range.
3) N00bking.
Neutral; dont like his filter but he voted for sulfurus, so the two cancel each other out.
4) Silentwarrior.
Shit-tier read list, bandwagonning, lurking. Didn't vote Moosy N1, so neutral or bad scum imo.
5) NHM/Tictoc
Awful posting but apparently had an excuse so mleh. Tictoc says he's followed the game, and showed that he was present in the thread, but has yet to give anything meaningful to the game, so he's on my naughty list until something comes up. Most lurkers commit, but he's already poked his head recently.
6) Moosy
Shit town, prodding him to post better hopefully he actually does, otherwise lynch for derailing conversation. No more discussion on him because its also just derailing now. C'mon man shape up.
7) TJ Huggins
Bandwagonned on Moosy, pointed a lot of fingers, but generally been pretty baseless. This isn't quite a 180 of what I said earlier, because I said in my post that he wasn't scum to me. That hasn't changed; I should have clarified that I didn't think he was that innocent either, he's high up on my neutral list. Just not enough yet to vote on him.
8) Grokken.
Seems pretty sketchy to me. Need to chug through filter again, but voting on me even before Fidei did just feels like someone trying to stand out and be opportunistic. He didn't start the attack, so he doesn't assume culpability if I get lynched and I'm town. He also can't hold onto an accusation.
That said, he didn't fight Sulfurus being lynched; he voted Moosy but didn't protest Sulfurus' death. That doesn't mean, however, that he's not my scum read. Because he is.
9) HtS
Untouchable right now. No fun there :<
10) scottblahblahnumbers
The WORST kind of lurker, if he was maf, I'd be willing to bet he'd be more active, especially since he's not on the noob list; who plays mafia multiple times without wanting to actually participate? For that reasoning he's really town to me, but damn I hate how he's basically not in the game. It's frustrating.
For n00bking if you are going to push a universally read town, you had better specify what you don't like about his filter. And if you are going to argue he bussed sulfurus instead of just saying cancelled out, you have to explain the risk reward analysis from his end. You fail to do that. Generally speaking your statement is incongruent, either the voting is the strongest evidence or you need to find a reason where his filter overrides the town cred from hammering (he was the deciding vote on) Sulfurus.
You do neither. Saying overall neutral is a shallow read.
And then you turn around and say SW is bandwagonning. On whom? D1, he was a solo voter which is one of the problems I had with him. The rest of your argument is unsubstantiated.
The Scott read is terrible considering you have lurkers on other standards (double standards) like WP/SW.
If you feel Grokken is scum, you should be pushing him. You should be voting him.
TLDR: Basically your posting is just not believable from a town perspective nor you have/are doing jack all to reconcile those differences. I feel the posting before all of this too is contrived.
I think you have the same problem as Sulfurus. You really don't care between lynching between Grokken and MD and being one down already you're badly in need of a mislynch.
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On July 15 2015 00:07 WonnaPlay wrote:
Top scumlist for me :
1] Scott - Gets defended by some people, without him having done anything. I think one of the people talking for him is atleast scum, defending scum. It would also explain the post Sulfurus made about "unvalid vote" and would even explain the night kill on Kelsier (if what you guys saying is true about veterans killing Kelsier).
He isn't even AFK, but because he's afraid from HtS and therefore he is lurking, which raises alarmbells all over the place for me..
2] Ghandi - too sketchy for my taste. The reason I don't have Ghandi on my #1 is that his list looks pretty decent. I'd agree on most points with him there, but who knows if he turns around again after that.. Also his conclusion on Scott being town is totally unwarranted. If Scott turns out to be scum, then Ghandi is one aswell.
3] TJH - made some weird posts during the end of the day regarding the votes, but I could see him being legitimately frustrated about his idea of different rules. I do think that HtS made some solid points, which I can't ignore since she was spot on in the last day. He's also very quiet since that day..
I don't think you are scum for this but a few things
- Sulfurus was flipped scum so anything he says on the invalid vote should be disregarded as WIFOM.
- Scott isn't afraid of me because he's scum - yes he could be but it's not for that comment on me. He's fearing that I'M scum - this is from his experience with me together on a scumteam. More on this in another post I will have on Scott.
- Regarding your Scott/Ghandi/TJH reads, between Scott and Ghandi, who is MORE likely to be scum? And how do you know Ghandi, being the worse of the two from your perpective isn't BSing about Scott?
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Ok, here is my big analysis of GhandiEagle.
So his first posts were mostly talking about nothing, this one is where really starts talking about the game:
On July 12 2015 04:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Right now its basically impossible to read into anything effectively, so Day 1 we might as well just flush out all of the lurkers, which I may work on when I get off work in a couple hours.
It is very much possible to get reads effectively day 1, that's how we got our first mafia. Everyone knows this. It is harder, true, but you can get decent reads. If you are scum however, people getting reads is the last thing you want. You would rather just have them kill some lurking townie than risk having them read people and figure out who is mafia.
He also says we should "flush out" all the lurkers, which he posts about again here:
On July 12 2015 12:06 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I'm strictly against considering policy lynches this early in the day. I'm saying we should get everyone to start talking because lurkers quickly become scapegoats, especially in newbie games where lurkers are often people who are just unsure of what to say.
He says that he wants to get everyone to talk, but no one to make reads. This supports my theory that he wants to avoid having people try to find mafia and make reads and instead just lynch someone with no one looking around
He is then afk until just 2 hours after lynch, and fails to make a vote. It might me IRL stuff, but it is kind of convenient to pop up so soon after the lycnh.
He then says this after night is over:
On July 14 2015 07:54 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Surprised they actually went after Kelsier. At least it confirms my worry that he jumped on Sulfurus as scum to try and assure his own safety; I was just about to post about that, especially since I had a totally unjustifiable scum meta read on him.
By the way, TJH isn't scum to me. He was an early bird on the Sulfurus scum train. That won't be enough to make me think he's town, but it is enough to give me pause before lynching him Day 2. Not ready to jump on that train.
This has been discuessed before, but just to rehash: TJH only said he thought sulfurus was scum after he was tagged. He also posted him as his second scum list, which seems to be a way for mafia to get creds in case their scum buddies flip. Now, ghandi might have just interepreted TJH wrong, at this point this is not that incriminating. We'll get back to it.
So after that he post his case on MoosyDoosy:
On July 14 2015 08:09 GhandiEAGLE wrote:I think Moosy is either playing a really abysmal town, or is scum. I'm still not sold enough to vote (I realize I say that a lot), but honestly constantly deflecting suspicion with sarcasm. Despite that sarcasm, he doesn't do shit for the town. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says. Why did this happen? It made little sense to ask me, other than I was one of the few early proactive people on the thread and it would make sense to get me on his side. He had no real reason to ask me specifically here, and no real reason to believe that my opinions would hold much weight. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:53 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :| Exactly what I was thinking. His first post seems to be more of a first page banter post. The second one is asking for clarification although as you say, it leads nowhere. But then again, newer players have a tendency to ask for clarification without having a drive behind it. Any thoughts on the suspicion of you Ghandi? :3 There it is again. No reason to be prodding me except that he might suspect that I'm scum (unlikely at that point in the thread), or he's trying to deflect conversations, looking like he moves conversation forward, without actually doing so. Then he didn't vote, which I didn't either because I forgot about the separate voting thread. So this is excusable because I suck :/ Also, he constantly uses emoticons, which I distrust by nature and generally indicate self-consciousness (I'm not kidding it often points to mafia). Never trust an emoticon. The rest of his filter is absolute trash, by the way. Nothing helpful at all; all of his posts constantly criticize other people for suspecting him, while offering literally zero content to push the town forward. If he isn't scum, I'd still policy lynch him Day 3 since based_HTS gave us plenty of time. I need meaningful contribution from Moosey or I'm not likely moving off of my vote without heavy evidence on someone else. ##Vote: MoosyDoosy
Now, this post is kind of weak. His biggest arguments is that MD keeps mentioning him (which isn't indictive of anything really), the fact that MD didn't vote (which he didn't either), and the fact that he uses emoticons (what???). And he seems to completely ignore the vote, which is a pretty big townlean for MD. He also votes for this, but states that he dosen't think he is mafia. Why would you want someone that is not mafia dead?
Later he posts his big list:
On July 14 2015 08:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
1) Fidei.
Town read; pushing me for my admittedly shitty posting when there was no real consideration of it earlier is pretty darn town.
2) WonnaPlay
Lurk City, hard to know if spooked or noob, but sketchy either way. Because its a noob game all lurkers basically stay in neutral range, instead of my usual neutral-lurker range.
3) N00bking.
Neutral; dont like his filter but he voted for sulfurus, so the two cancel each other out.
4) Silentwarrior.
Shit-tier read list, bandwagonning, lurking. Didn't vote Moosy N1, so neutral or bad scum imo.
5) NHM/Tictoc
Awful posting but apparently had an excuse so mleh. Tictoc says he's followed the game, and showed that he was present in the thread, but has yet to give anything meaningful to the game, so he's on my naughty list until something comes up. Most lurkers commit, but he's already poked his head recently.
6) Moosy
Shit town, prodding him to post better hopefully he actually does, otherwise lynch for derailing conversation. No more discussion on him because its also just derailing now. C'mon man shape up.
7) TJ Huggins
Bandwagonned on Moosy, pointed a lot of fingers, but generally been pretty baseless. This isn't quite a 180 of what I said earlier, because I said in my post that he wasn't scum to me. That hasn't changed; I should have clarified that I didn't think he was that innocent either, he's high up on my neutral list. Just not enough yet to vote on him.
8) Grokken.
Seems pretty sketchy to me. Need to chug through filter again, but voting on me even before Fidei did just feels like someone trying to stand out and be opportunistic. He didn't start the attack, so he doesn't assume culpability if I get lynched and I'm town. He also can't hold onto an accusation.
That said, he didn't fight Sulfurus being lynched; he voted Moosy but didn't protest Sulfurus' death. That doesn't mean, however, that he's not my scum read. Because he is.
9) HtS
Untouchable right now. No fun there :<
10) scottblahblahnumbers
The WORST kind of lurker, if he was maf, I'd be willing to bet he'd be more active, especially since he's not on the noob list; who plays mafia multiple times without wanting to actually participate? For that reasoning he's really town to me, but damn I hate how he's basically not in the game. It's frustrating.
Now his tone about TJH is less townlean. This was after everyone pointed about the suspicoins of TJH. So, even if TJH and Ghandi isn't scumteam, he would want to appease to town and follow its general ideas and thoughts. So when he says something and town says another, he would naturally want to change what he says to fit what towns says as mafia. He tries to downplay this change by stating it himself, and saying it's not that big of a change of heart. But really, everyone can see his reversal of opinion.
Something also interesting is that he says scott is town, despite saying he is a lurker. Somehow, being an experienced player makes it ok for being a lurker. This reasoning is just strange, and gets stranger with his next post:
On July 14 2015 08:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
To sum up
Scummer read is hardest on Grokken,
Town for me definitively is HtS, Scott, and Fidei.
Too many people posting too little (me included, before ~20 minutes ago). Need more activity please.
Now he says that scott is in his top 3 town reads. This is when scott had like 3 posts in game, none of which had any content at all in them. So why have someone like that as top 3 town? This leads me to believe that maybe the scumteam is Scott-Ghandi. TJH-Ghandi is also very likely, but he seems to be unusually positive about scott for the amount he has written.
In conclusion, Ghandis posts leads me to believe that he is mafia. I urge the rest of you to also examine him and make your own conclusion.
Vote: GhandiEAGLE
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I think the lynch today should be either of TJH or Ghandi. Percentage play it might be safer to lynch Ghandi based on his tentative read on TJH and then if the flip holds true then go after TJH unless there is stronger evidence for another player based on the flip - I know Grokken is saying Scott is liable and I'll comment on that shortly but you have to also connect Scott's filter to Ghandi's to also make that association. (This does not make Grokken mafia btw)
But unless there is an overriding reason you always side with percentage play analysis and Sulfurus didn't leave too much behind post-lynch. Whether you believe Scott or TJH is the final mafia you have to go with percentage play.
##unvote
##vote GhandiEAGLE
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On July 14 2015 10:42 scott31337 wrote:
I'm off in left field in this game but I think we almost have it solved - Sorry I'm not contributing much. HtS town love gives me a stiffy and normally she's not solid - <3
If you have reason to suspect me, you have a lot of things to prove.
1 I hard bussed Sulfurus from the off. If I were scum, tell me how many cycles it would be before I run into the "why is she alive" theory.
2 I was roleblocked. You'd have to either believe a) scum held their roleblock or b) there is reason to see a veteran in the game as they double stacked actions on KSC or c) I am the roleblocker. In the case of b) you'd still have to explain why KSC got NKed over n00b and Fidei.
3 In line with 1, assuming MD is town you'd have to believe as scum I saved a town that could have very easily been mislynched. I could have just done nothing.
4 You'd have to believe that I had TMI on Sulfurus based on the method that I used to tag him and/or to put it in simpler terms, you believe no townie can look at Sulfurus' post and question why Sulfurus thought it was a waste of time to discuss the leading wagon with 1h45m until EoD with FOUR NO-VOTES.
5 You'd have to believe that MoosyDoosy (who admitted he was springing a trap) and I were both scummates setting our own teammate up to be lynched, a teammate who was much less likely to be lynched than Moosy with at least 6 votes.
Ockham's razor is usually the way to go unless you have reason (above) to think otherwise. If you can reasonably discuss at least 2-3 of the 5 points I raised above, then you might actually have a case.
TLDR - Based on you being on a scumteam with me, you are not unreasonable to fear read me. That post does not make you scum. But fear reading alone isn't going to get you anywhere, and I learnt that one the hard way with Kitaman in Aperture 4.
If you cannot discuss the above, then try again.
On July 14 2015 19:11 Fidei86 wrote:
Frankfurt airport is awesome - look for the recline chairs with the charging points if you're in terminal 2. Very comfortable.
I can sheep this
On July 14 2015 19:39 Tictock wrote:
HtS can attest that my setup/role speculation has been very poor in the past as well, lol.
This I can also sheep, in addition to your setup speculation. Vigilantes usually shoot N1 and there were several reasons to, even ignoring lurkers. (And it should have been clear from me telling a vig to shoot Sulfurus at EoD that I'm not a vig.)
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Here are my views on everyone:
Most likely town:
n00bKing
Half the Sky
Fidei86
Town lean:
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EBWOP (accidently hit post)
Here are my views on everyone:
Most likely town:
n00bKing
Half the Sky
Fidei86
MoosyDoosy
Town lean:
Grokken
Neutral:
NydusHerMain/TICKTOCK
WonnaPlay
Scumlean:
scott31337
TJHuggins
Probably scum:
GhandiEAGLE
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Right now, I'm still thinking Grokken is the scummiest. Main reason is right here
On July 14 2015 08:33 Grokken wrote:
I think Fidei might be on to something, Ghandis post about MD is just rehashed arguments, he doesn't bring anything new to the table. He is also acting very defensively in the last few posts. He also said he didn't actually think MD is mafia, but still wants to policy-lynch him? I think we should try to lynch the mafia instead.
##vote GhandiEAGLE
Acting defensively is something a lot of people would do when suddenly accused of being mafia; to me it's not really good proof unless the person is doing it an extreme amount, which I wasn't. Bringing something new to the table isn't something you did either in this post, so unless you're calling yourself scum, rehashing what other people have said isn't really a good reason to suspect (necessarily). Thirdly, I said that I didn't want to lynch Moosy until Day 3. The reason I voted for him was to get him talking more and getting him into the game.
But disagreeing with your points isn't what's scummy to me. What's scummy is that you jumped on the first bandwagon that had nothing to do with supposedly likely scum, TJ. You issued a short, uninformative paragraph, and then immediately voted for me before even the original accuser, Fidei, did. To me this just seems like opportunistic play that would side yourself with a clear town, give you little to no culpability when I turn up town after a lynch, and still allow you to have a time in your filter where you seemed proactive in a town role, so as to be another defense later. That seems scummy to me.
Additionally, you held a vote on Moosy. You said it was because you weren't present at the final vote, but I have no reason to believe this. A lot of other people can be held to this too, so you're not alone here; however, it doesn't help you. I'm more or less in the dark about who the scummers are, but as far as my reads go you're the scummiest.
Also it's pretty safe to say attempting to get Moosy to participate didn't work out at all. Meh.
##Vote: Grokken
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Day 2 Vote Count
GhandiEAGLE(3): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky
TJHuggins(1): Ticktock
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(6): Noobking, WonnaPlay, scott31337, MoosyDoosy, TJHuggins, silentwarrior
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 4 votes.
Day 1 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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Yayy I'm dead in the other game so I can concentrate on this one now - I'll do some buttkicking tonight after house cleaning.
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On July 14 2015 05:00 Tictock wrote:
I'm torn about TJ's EoD reaction. On the one hand I dont think scum would post like that In game over in their QT, but on the other hand I don't see town getting so worked up over that host mistake when it meant we lynched scum. The mistake had been discussed a fair bit as well (that MD cannot vote for himself) so it should not have been a suprise, yet he seemed genuinely upset that MD's vote on himself was not counted.
I experienced this same thought process after the lynch. I definitely thought that a mafia player would be more likely to complain in the scum thread, instead of in the main thread. But I had a hard time getting past the notion that a town player would not be likely to complain AT ALL.
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Read through Tictock's filter. I'm thinking town lean for now. I'm not seeing any red flags yet, granted there is (understandably at this point) a lot of parroting in the town circle but I'm starting to see some original thought in most of the people I am townreading. I'm not smelling an agenda, and most of what Tictock is saying seems believable from a town standpoint.
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On July 14 2015 20:36 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 05:37 n00bKing wrote:On July 11 2015 21:15 Half the Sky wrote:
noob why the vote on NHM? Can't tell whether your vote is a joke vote or not, the others I can. If the vote were a joke, I'm not sure what about it is supposed to be funny. Like...what's the joke? And my joke votes wouldn't go in the voting thread, and that one is in the voting thread. If you want to see a fake vote, you can look at the one on me from Sulfurus. He wastes space with a fakecheck and a fakevote, and then wastes more space by backreferencing them. That's all you get, from his first two posts. His third (and thus far, final) post is him essentially telling Moosy to "do stuff" without actually doing stuff himself. We get roughly the same amount of value from Kelsier's posts, in which he tells people to "start the game" without actually doing anything that would get the game going. If either of Kelsier/Sulfurus are town, they've already got a headstart on being useless town. Okay, so why the vote on NHM? Two reasons. 1) At the time that NHM votes, there is only ONE player who has really expressed any interest in progressing the game. Fidei86. He was the only one (to that point) who had made a legitimate, "let's start thinking about the actual game itself" type of post. And that is who NHM chooses to vote against: the one player who showed an indication that they might be taking the game seriously. 2) The other reason should not be revealed yet. @n00bking Did you ever post your response to your point at paragraph 2? If you did, could you link/reference me? If you didn't, can you say now?
I did, and it was this:
"What I didn't like about TJ was that he made absolutely no effort whatsoever to read (or even interact with) the only person in the game that he knew before the game started. If I were Town, and was in a game with a bunch of strangers + ONE person I knew quite well, then without a doubt my early focus would be on interacting with that person, to try and get a read on them, because I know things about their personality and mannerisms that may not be known by anyone else on my team. TJ doesn't do this at all.
Conversely, if I were scum in that situation, I might make a point of avoiding that person, because they know things about MY personality and mannerisms that may not be known by anyone else in the Town. And I might steer clear of them (possibly without even realizing I'm doing it) to keep them from getting a read on me.
From reading his filter, it's obvious which route TJ went on this issue. So if I'm killed tonight, I think you guys should make a point of questioning TJ on this. And if he has what seems to be a perfectly reasonable explanation for that behavior, then great! However, if all he can give you is some line about 'I knew NHM was afk for real-life reasons, so I didn't bother to try and talk to him, because I knew it would be pointless' then...NOT IMPRESSED."
That was bothering me throughout the entirety of Day 1. But I didn't want to bring it up, so I could watch and see if things changed, without TJ knowing what I was watching for. Things never changed, and once NHM replaced out, I didn't think there was any reason to keep it under wraps anymore.
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Silentwarrior....I know he's putting in the effort and people can't be in thread perpetually. But in the event that Gandhi winds up being a mislynch he might come under some suspicion. I can't put my finger on articulating it well at the moment (aside from the parroting, even the point by Scott was previously mentioned by WP, but a lot of people are understandably guilty of that) but the first two quotes of his long post at the top of page 25 are slightly biased in that they don't account for how a town Gandhi would act. Nowhere did he say "no one to make reads" but on Gandhi's end you do have a lack of followup. It could be suboptimal town or scum play. GE is in his second game ever on TL so believeable expectations aren't too high if a town Gandhi wants to prioritise lurkers.
Also 2 hours post-lynch depending on timezone is not considered too soon. Stateside, the EoDs (I'm assuming you are EU btw) are during evening rush hour, so who knows. I know you're new so I'm considering this part NAI for now. But popping up so soon after the lynch, 2 hours is not considered very soon. 2 minutes, yes you have a case.
Again I am a bit ahead and it is an associative read at this point in time (meaning can't know until a Gandhi flip) but I'm still null on SW at the moment. I think based on effort most newbie scum wouldn't give much effort. At the same time scum are concerned with "looking town" so I do remain cautious on SW.
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[B]
SW I have one reservation on him. There might be some distancing going on. I checked his filter again. There wasn't a weigh in on MD although the only thing SW said d1 was that he'd rather NHM over MD get lynched. However, look at his filter - first 5 posts on first page of his filter were before the lynch. His two posts on voting NHM were after my Sulfurus tag, and he makes zero mention one way or other on Sulfurus. Furthermore looking at votes, scum do and can hide on as solo votes, and a bit more apparent in newbie games (veterans are a bit more careful) so seeing SW solo voting nhm might be something to think about.
If he posted his vote/observation on NHM before my tag or if he'd taken any stance on Sulfurus I'd have less reason to suspect him, but him not appearing to take a stance at all on Sulfurus is a red flag. (His last post prior to EoD was 56m prior to lynch, and returned 1h after lynch, first stance on Sulfur was 1h25m after lynch.)
I don't think it's that big of a red flag. Sulfurus offered very little to take a stance on. I could see a new player looking at Sulfurus' filter and thinking "there is nothing here to work with."
Even so, I will still scumlean SilentWarrior a little bit. When there are 2 scum left to find, I don't want to have a suspect list that is only two players. So I'll make some room for SilentWarrior.
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On July 15 2015 05:24 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
But disagreeing with your points isn't what's scummy to me. What's scummy is that you jumped on the first bandwagon that had nothing to do with supposedly likely scum, TJ. You issued a short, uninformative paragraph, and then immediately voted for me before even the original accuser, Fidei, did. To me this just seems like opportunistic play that would side yourself with a clear town, give you little to no culpability when I turn up town after a lynch, and still allow you to have a time in your filter where you seemed proactive in a town role, so as to be another defense later. That seems scummy to me.
##Vote: Grokken
That's the second time I've seen you misuse the word bandwagon this game.
Now how does the first bolded sentence exclusively make Grokken mafia?
I don't like the second bolded sentence since you are putting words in his mouth but I think there is a reason Grokken didn't vote TJ.
But let's see if anyone else sorts that out.
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On July 15 2015 08:37 n00bKing wrote:
I don't think it's that big of a red flag. Sulfurus offered very little to take a stance on. I could see a new player looking at Sulfurus' filter and thinking "there is nothing here to work with."
This is a decent point. He was a solo voter and having done too many VCAs to count I might be a little biased since he solo voted, but newbies probably don't have the concept of town consolidation down either, at least not yet.
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Oh yeh, btw, newbies, VCA = vote count analysis, where you analyse wagons post-lynch and figure out alignments based on timing of votes and backup. Scott did a basic one already.
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On July 14 2015 07:11 Half the Sky wrote:
Also I have been roleblocked. I just received note of this.
Well...then if the scum team knows there is a Vigilante in the setup, you can probably expect to be roleblocked again on Night 2 as well. Because they will be worried that you are yourself the Vigilante. In reality, the Vigilante may just have not fired yet, but they probably won't take the chance, and would roleblock you again. If anyone besides you gets RB'd on Night 2, then it's probably a Cop setup instead.
On July 14 2015 07:11 Half the Sky wrote: This means a medic dodge is possible and the prot role is a medic. In randomised open setups, if there is roleblockable veteran in the setup, usually the RB and NK actions are stacked on the target to avoid chancing hitting the veteran. The fact that the nightactions were on separate targets, indicates that the prot role is likely to be a medic.
Yeah, I strongly agree with this. I think there is a Doctor in the setup, and that Kelsier was killed because the scum team was worried that you or I would be healed. I think this theory is much better than ones where the scum team suspected Kelsier of being a blue role, or were just generally afraid of him.
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I am off to bed. It's almost 1am. Good night townies <3
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On July 15 2015 08:44 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 07:11 Half the Sky wrote:
Also I have been roleblocked. I just received note of this. Well...then if the scum team knows there is a Vigilante in the setup, you can probably expect to be roleblocked again on Night 2 as well. Because they will be worried that you are yourself the Vigilante. In reality, the Vigilante may just have not fired yet, but they probably won't take the chance, and would roleblock you again. If anyone besides you gets RB'd on Night 2, then it's probably a Cop setup instead.
Come to think of it, I have been in a newbie game where a newbie vigilante did not fire his shot. I guess it is possible. But it really doesn't happen often. We'll see.
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EBWOP - did not fire his shot N1 (without being RBed)
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On July 14 2015 09:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 09:24 TJHuggins wrote:
I am dealing with someone that is taking priority in real life right now so I do not have time to write out a big post. I will give the essential information that I can provide to town tomorrow. probably.
By essential information is that a blue claim? Or just something your saying.
I don't know, but I wanna find out!
##Vote: TJHuggins
Would love to see some more votes on TJ, just to push him into carrying through with posting his "essential information."
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On July 15 2015 08:31 Half the Sky wrote:
Silentwarrior....I know he's putting in the effort and people can't be in thread perpetually. But in the event that Gandhi winds up being a mislynch he might come under some suspicion. I can't put my finger on articulating it well at the moment (aside from the parroting, even the point by Scott was previously mentioned by WP, but a lot of people are understandably guilty of that) but the first two quotes of his long post at the top of page 25 are slightly biased in that they don't account for how a town Gandhi would act. Nowhere did he say "no one to make reads" but on Gandhi's end you do have a lack of followup. It could be suboptimal town or scum play. GE is in his second game ever on TL so believeable expectations aren't too high if a town Gandhi wants to prioritise lurkers.
Also 2 hours post-lynch depending on timezone is not considered too soon. Stateside, the EoDs (I'm assuming you are EU btw) are during evening rush hour, so who knows. I know you're new so I'm considering this part NAI for now. But popping up so soon after the lynch, 2 hours is not considered very soon. 2 minutes, yes you have a case.
Again I am a bit ahead and it is an associative read at this point in time (meaning can't know until a Gandhi flip) but I'm still null on SW at the moment. I think based on effort most newbie scum wouldn't give much effort. At the same time scum are concerned with "looking town" so I do remain cautious on SW.
I said the thing about scott first right after he posted it. So if anything, wp is parroting me.
Ghandi said that it is impossible to make reads, which basically means to not do them. What else would they mean?
Don't know, still think it was rather convenient that he popped up like that.
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On July 14 2015 16:27 Fidei86 wrote:
Strong Town-lean:
N00b - Again, I don't see any reason for n00b to start pinging out a scum buddy this early, particularly not where the vote circumstances were so close. Unless the scum team includes Moosy, I don't see a world in which n00b is Mafia.
Won't worry much about defending myself, since I'm under no real pressure anyway, but I'll just briefly mention that even if Moosy were scum, it still doesn't create a world in which I can be Mafia, unless Moosy is the roleblocker.
If Moosy ever flipped Goon, I don't think it makes me look worse at all. It would mean I saved the Goon on my team, in order to instead ditch...the Godfather? That's a push if there's no Cop in the setup, and a disaster if there is a Cop in the setup.
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On July 15 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 08:37 n00bKing wrote:
I don't think it's that big of a red flag. Sulfurus offered very little to take a stance on. I could see a new player looking at Sulfurus' filter and thinking "there is nothing here to work with." This is a decent point. He was a solo voter and having done too many VCAs to count I might be a little biased since he solo voted, but newbies probably don't have the concept of town consolidation down either, at least not yet.
I didn't solo vote at the time i voted, noobking changed his vote. But I don't understand, what so bad with solovoting?
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Alright, that's all for now. I should be back on later tonight, to take a giant poop on GhandiEAGLE. In the meantime, I will just reiterate that I would encourage votes on TJHuggins.
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I think it's Ghandi but I've made it a habit to sheep n00bKing.
##Vote TJHuggins
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This is what I don't understand. Ghandi makes this really long post about me as Mafia disregarding the discussion of whether or not it's based on solid analysis. Then right afterwards when the general thread sentiment is that I'm a townie, he immediately says that he "honestly" doesn't think I'm Mafia.
Even if he's trying to get me to interact, he should present his argument in a way that would make me take it seriously. By taking his argument back in his very next post, I feel absolutely no inclination to respond since he says he thinks I'm townie anyway.
Also, his filter before I started questioning him is garbage so I don't see why he finds an issue with me beginning to question him. I merely saw an opportunity to ask Ghandi a question especially since he hadn't really been productive before so I wanted to see what he would say.
So this is for Ghandi:
Can you explain the reason for your sudden switch in saying I'm a townie out of nowhere? Before your post against me, you had been insinuating that I wasn't a townie by saying that you didn't trust me:
On July 13 2015 08:55 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Sorry about being useless/afk, small stuff that takes priority came up. From now on I have my full attention on the game, will drop in my current reads (spoilers; I don't trust Moose) later.
Then you make your long post against me but back out of it in the very next post. There's no indication of a changing thought process in between so I'm curious as to your reaction.
At least TJHuggins on the other hand strongly believed I was Mafia and had strong words about how the votes turned out.
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I can. I thought about it more. I'd gone back and forth on it a few times, and that was one of those instances. I changed my mind on it after that long post before anyone else talked about it. I still don't have a strong pull on you on way or the other, though, which is why I didn't put you on my definitive town list last time I made a large post.
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On July 15 2015 10:33 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I can. I thought about it more. I'd gone back and forth on it a few times, and that was one of those instances. I changed my mind on it after that long post before anyone else talked about it. I still don't have a strong pull on you on way or the other, though, which is why I didn't put you on my definitive town list last time I made a large post.
What about Grokken's post? He basically concluded that I couldn't be Mafia in the post right after your post against me.
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Back home and catching up.
On July 15 2015 03:00 Half the Sky wrote:
Yeh sorry.....I'm working until 2200. I'm getting hosed this week prior to flying out to NYC.
But I will put aside some time to post.
Largely the TLDR version is that Ghandi looks significantly worse, Scott needs to fill in the gaps with his scumreads, his fear read on me is normal considering that he was on a scumteam where I (more or less) carried, and TJH is still poor, Grokken is slightly better, just skimming I need to get a firmer read on SW, WP and Tictock, the last of whom is concerning from a fear read (read: Holy Guardians) standpoint.
The real question for me is whether I want to lynch TJH or Ghandi.
WP seems okay for a newbie though. SW is the one I had a prior concern on.
I observed that game and I want to cross compare points from that game, but from what I recall, the big problem was that you had milo who was guilty of TMI, Chocolate and Templar were too easy to lynch because they WERE pretty scummy and then Damdred and VE were both playing suboptimally and Scott was also easily mislynched. So basically in this game the way to prevent that with any potential player is if the town stays cohesive it will be harder for scum to hide. There was a Dutch newbie who was playing pretty well enough to not get MLed (in fact he got NKed N2 which was weird in of itself) and ritoky was also doing well but those two were offed pretty quickly.
In a game where town plays suboptimally it will be much harder, based on meta you have to find out whether a player really believes someone is scum or is just trying to push an easy mislynch. Right now there aren't many standing out from the crowd so I'm thinking at this point in time Tic would be an easy read.
If there's something you recall from HG that jumps out to you regarding Tictock shout. I do need to look at him in detail.
Aww, it's oddly good to hear you have a fear read on me due to the HG game. You earlier stated you thought I'd be an easy read since you coached me in the game before HG.
2 things. First town has a huge leg up from where HG started. In that game town managed to Mislynch their only blue role and then had to go forward without any assistance from role info. Second, you guys managed to catch Sulf as the GF D1 this game. Which not only means town is in a solid place but if there is a Cop we can trust their checks.
Past that you get no help from me on how to read my meta ^.^ To be honest I'm not sure I know myself.
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On July 15 2015 08:50 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 09:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On July 14 2015 09:24 TJHuggins wrote:
I am dealing with someone that is taking priority in real life right now so I do not have time to write out a big post. I will give the essential information that I can provide to town tomorrow. probably.
By essential information is that a blue claim? Or just something your saying. I don't know, but I wanna find out! ##Vote: TJHugginsWould love to see some more votes on TJ, just to push him into carrying through with posting his "essential information."
Heh, I was thinking the exact opposite right now n00b...
Was wondering if the votes shifted off TJ if he would follow up on that or not.
Since you just put reminded everyone of that post I'll leave my vote on TJ with ya to push for that info as well. As I mentioned earlier I'm also totally ok with the Ghandi lynch as well. Ghandi's last post pushing Grok didn't do much to change my read on him.
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On July 15 2015 08:55 silentwarrior wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:On July 15 2015 08:37 n00bKing wrote:
I don't think it's that big of a red flag. Sulfurus offered very little to take a stance on. I could see a new player looking at Sulfurus' filter and thinking "there is nothing here to work with." This is a decent point. He was a solo voter and having done too many VCAs to count I might be a little biased since he solo voted, but newbies probably don't have the concept of town consolidation down either, at least not yet. I didn't solo vote at the time i voted, noobking changed his vote. But I don't understand, what so bad with solovoting?
The issue with solo voting is that it makes it harder to look at vote counts after a flip. Ideally you want 2 solid wagons so that when you hit on scum you can start to figuer out which players on the opposing wagon are likely scum and which, if any, are scum bussing a teammate.
I'm pretty guilty of throwing my vote out solo in past newbie games, so I understand the temptation to ignore the majority and vote for your own reads. However if you think about it all it really does it make it easier for scum to swing the votes in their favor.
Maybe HtS can answer a little better, also I'm sure there is someplace on the interwebs that has in depth talk about what is good for voteing patterns as town.
My counter question to get you thinking about it more, what do you think could be good about solovoting?
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On July 15 2015 04:29 Half the Sky wrote:
I think the lynch today should be either of TJH or Ghandi. Percentage play it might be safer to lynch Ghandi based on his tentative read on TJH and then if the flip holds true then go after TJH unless there is stronger evidence for another player based on the flip - I know Grokken is saying Scott is liable and I'll comment on that shortly but you have to also connect Scott's filter to Ghandi's to also make that association. (This does not make Grokken mafia btw)
But unless there is an overriding reason you always side with percentage play analysis and Sulfurus didn't leave too much behind post-lynch. Whether you believe Scott or TJH is the final mafia you have to go with percentage play.
##unvote
##vote GhandiEAGLE
I overall agree with your post here (as with most of your posts this game) HtS. However I'm wondering if you could explain what you mean by percentage play here.
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On July 15 2015 05:24 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Right now, I'm still thinking Grokken is the scummiest. Main reason is right here Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 08:33 Grokken wrote:
I think Fidei might be on to something, Ghandis post about MD is just rehashed arguments, he doesn't bring anything new to the table. He is also acting very defensively in the last few posts. He also said he didn't actually think MD is mafia, but still wants to policy-lynch him? I think we should try to lynch the mafia instead.
##vote GhandiEAGLE Acting defensively is something a lot of people would do when suddenly accused of being mafia; to me it's not really good proof unless the person is doing it an extreme amount, which I wasn't. Bringing something new to the table isn't something you did either in this post, so unless you're calling yourself scum, rehashing what other people have said isn't really a good reason to suspect (necessarily). Thirdly, I said that I didn't want to lynch Moosy until Day 3. The reason I voted for him was to get him talking more and getting him into the game. But disagreeing with your points isn't what's scummy to me. What's scummy is that you jumped on the first bandwagon that had nothing to do with supposedly likely scum, TJ. You issued a short, uninformative paragraph, and then immediately voted for me before even the original accuser, Fidei, did. To me this just seems like opportunistic play that would side yourself with a clear town, give you little to no culpability when I turn up town after a lynch, and still allow you to have a time in your filter where you seemed proactive in a town role, so as to be another defense later. That seems scummy to me. Additionally, you held a vote on Moosy. You said it was because you weren't present at the final vote, but I have no reason to believe this. A lot of other people can be held to this too, so you're not alone here; however, it doesn't help you. I'm more or less in the dark about who the scummers are, but as far as my reads go you're the scumm iest. Also it's pretty safe to say attempting to get Moosy to participate didn't work out at all. Meh. ##Vote: Grokken
This is a pretty bad post imo, and the reasons to vote for Grok are flimsy at best.
Acting defensively is something a lot of people would do when suddenly accused of being mafia
That is about the only statement that I totally agree with. Town can, and should, defend themselves against a push just as much as Scum will want to.
Bringing something new to the table isn't something you did either in this post, so unless you're calling yourself scum, rehashing what other people have said isn't really a good reason to suspect (necessarily).
This seems to be Ghandi's main point, but the bolded part really only seems to be included to open up his next point. Otherwise he doesn't back up when he thinks rehashing is a scum tell.
What's scummy is that you jumped on the first bandwagon that had nothing to do with supposedly likely scum, TJ. You issued a short, uninformative paragraph, and then immediately voted for me before even the original accuser, Fidei, did.
So in one paragraph Ganhdi says that rehashing other peoples points isn't a good way to scum read people, then goes ahead and makes Grok's sheep on Fedei his main reason for this scum read. Whats the differentiating factor here? When is it ok and when is is scummy?
Also the part I bolded here is funny wording. Ghandi isn't saying that Grok is voting according to his own reads (which would be a scum tell) but that Grok not voting with what is the thread sentiment is scummy. That makes little sense to me. It also is worded in such a way to suggest Ghandi doesn't really think that TJ is scum, yet in his last posts mentioning TJ he seemed to be scumreading him.
The last paragraph about Grok voting for MD D1 is meh. First off we we don't know MD's alignment yet so the people voting for him are not at all scummy for doing so, it really should be if Grok's vote matches up with his EoD reads not just who he voted for, especially when we don't know the alignment of who he voted for (in this case MD).
I'm more or less in the dark about who the scummers are, but as far as my reads go you're the scummiest.
I will give Ghandi credit that Grok was his top scum read in his last reads post here. However saying that Grok is the scummiest player atm and that he has no other scum reads right now just continues to scream mafia to me. This whole post honestly reads to me like a forced read to "bring something new to the table".
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@ Ghandi
What is it that is making you think TJ might be town?
Also, in regards to this statement
rehashing what other people have said isn't really a good reason to suspect (necessarily)
Whats the "necessarily"? When do you think it is ok for people to rehash what others say and when isn't it?
I realize in my last post I was possibly over simplifying by assuming rehashing what others say is more or less the same as sheeping someone.
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Day 2 Vote Count
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(3): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(3): , WonnaPlay, scott31337, TJHuggins
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 4 votes.
Day 1 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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Funny thought: If the scum team was originally Sulfurus/Scott/NHM, then the scum QT thread probably had about 9 posts in it, when Ticktock replaced in. lol
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I have very little reservation about lynching GhandiEAGLE in this phase. What little reservation I do have, would be that he is "too scummy to actually be scum." He doesn't just contradict himself from one phase to the next. And he doesn't even just contradict himself from one POST to the next. Here is an example (Page 21) where he contradicted himself INSIDE a single post. He starts off with:
On July 14 2015 08:09 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I think Moosy is either playing a really abysmal town, or is scum. I'm still not sold enough to vote (I realize I say that a lot), but honestly constantly deflecting suspicion with sarcasm. Despite that sarcasm, he doesn't do shit for the town.
But then, at the end of his wall of text, he says:
On July 14 2015 08:09 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I need meaningful contribution from Moosey or I'm not likely moving off of my vote without heavy evidence on someone else.
##Vote: MoosyDoosy
Not sold enough to vote against him. But then he votes against him. And says he won't move his vote off of him without "heavy evidence" on someone else.
Despite this, just a few posts later, he says:
On July 14 2015 08:12 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Filler and waffle is over, I've started making legit posts again.
Waffle is over, huh? "I'm still not sold enough to vote." *Votes* How are you going to tell us that you're all done waffling, when you can't keep from changing your position between the start of a post and the end of that same post?
Also "too scummy to be scum" is his read on HtS, from Page 22. He says "Untouchable right now. No fun there :<" Which reads kinda like "I sure would like to see HtS lynched, but I know I can't make that happen." No mafia member could make this post without realizing how terrible it sounds, right?
His read on Scott probably isn't "too scummy to be scum" but his certainty that a player who HASN'T PLAYED is town might be what people sometimes call "TMI." At the time of Ghandi's reads post, there wasn't much incentive for him to try and get Scott lynched. It's not like Scott is going to hurt the scum team, with the amount of "work" he had done up to that point. So it's an easy opportunity to go ahead and townread a town player, since that player isn't one you really need to get rid of anyway.
Ghandi's post on Page 25, where he moves his vote to Grokken, says that one of the reasons he's scumreading Grokken is that he left his vote on Moosy during Day 1, in the Moosy vs. Sulfurus race. But Ghandi was himself voting against Moosy on Day TWO, so...?
Ghandi's "neutral" read on me is particularly damning. He says that he doesn't like my filter, but as HtS pointed out, if he wants to go against thread sentiment, he should probably explain his reasoning (and since he's not on the Newbie list, he should possibly know better).
Even if it was true that he disliked my filter (and he was able to explain why), it still doesn't make sense to say that my bad filter and my participation in Sulfurus' lynch "cancel each other out." It was MY vote that put the Godfather in a casket. You could feel free to say that Half the Sky's arguments against Sulfurus convinced more people than mine did, but it was still my vote that ultimately killed him. That's heavily town-indicative, and it would take a REALLY scummy filter to "cancel it out" and leave me as neutral. And this post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=13#255) was probably SOME sort of factor, in getting us a Red flip on Day 1.
So finding a Town justification for null-reading me looks pretty tough, I think. But if I try to think of a Scum justification for null-reading me, it's a little easier. If the scum team does indeed know that there is a Doctor in the game, then they will probably continue to be uncomfortable with the idea of attacking me or HtS, just as they appeared to be uncomfortable during Night 1 (and killed Kelsier instead, even though he was not being town-read AS strongly as HtS and myself). If they know that trying to Night-kill me will always be a crapshoot (so long as the Doctor is still alive) then they have to try to get me lynched, or endgame me. But to try to endgame me, they have to endgame HtS too, because she's not getting lynched ever (based on how thread sentiment is crediting her with being the largest reason Sulfurus was lynched). And yes, they could endgame us both at once (2 against 2) but you would HATE to have to already pick 2 players to let survive to the finish, when it's this early in the game.
So maybe the plan was to endgame HtS + someone else. Leave open the possibility of getting me mislynched later, and then night-kill Kelsier and fidei. Ghandi is townreading fidei much more strongly than he's townreading me. Which doesn't make any sense to me at all, unless the plan is to night-kill fidei, and see whether the town will ever warm up to the idea of mislynching me.
Ghandi is probably scum, even though he's "too scummy to actually be scum."
Would still like to see TJ take the vote lead, and get the "essential information" he teased us with. Anyone who fails to deliver on a promise like that deserves the noose.
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On July 15 2015 04:03 Half the Sky wrote:- Regarding your Scott/Ghandi/TJH reads, between Scott and Ghandi, who is MORE likely to be scum? And how do you know Ghandi, being the worse of the two from your perpective isn't BSing about Scott?
My gut feeling just keeps screaming that Scott is scum, the things I said in my list and then to add this :
On July 15 2015 07:18 scott31337 wrote:Yayy I'm dead in the other game so I can concentrate on this one now - I'll do some buttkicking tonight after house cleaning.
Hope he'll come back before nightfall and really do post something constructive, but 4 out of 7 of his posts are in the context of "I'll reread and post something later", which is a staggering 57,1%..
If I would look at the direct question : "who is MORE likely to be scum?" ; it would be Ghandi.
My rationale can't ignore Ghandi, and since Scott has said so little, it is just a hunge. For Ghandi, I think there are solid points to question his alignment.
I will vote for GhandiEagle if everything stays like this, but I'll join n00bking's request for putting pressure on TJH, since I'm also really interested in what he has to say for himself. I think that, if TJH doesn't get pressured into expanding on his thoughts, he won't post them at all. So therefore I will vote for him at this moment, eventhough he is not on top of my scumlist.
##Vote TJHuggins
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Guys I am about generally, but I'm very busy at work, so don't have a lot of time for checking the thread. I'll be on for EOD. Sorry.
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Day 2 Vote Count
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(2): scott31337, TJHuggins
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 4 votes.
Day 1 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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Eh, Ghandi isn't even defending himself. XD
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Work is destroying me again, if I'm lucky I'll finish up again around 2200. >_<
I will put aside some time in about 2 hours when I step away for food.
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I've been really busy as well, but I can't forget to vote this time...We don't need any modkilled townies.
##Vote Tjhuggins
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On July 16 2015 00:25 scott31337 wrote:
I've been really busy as well, but I can't forget to vote this time...We don't need any modkilled townies.
##Vote Tjhuggins
Can you sum up where you stand on people in general this game? I don't need a big case or wall of text, even a list post, exclusive scumreads only, or something so we know where you stand.
Or even in one line why you think TJH is the best lynch.
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Actually you are effectively hammering him (even if he tries to save himself and ties it up again), so if anyone owes an explanation of their vote, it's you Scott.
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On July 16 2015 00:25 scott31337 wrote:
##Vote Tjhuggins
Excellent. And now...we wait. *rubs hands together*
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Not complaining about the pressure votes on TJH.
But Scott coming in without a previously stated stance on TJH is a bit interesting and if we're wrong on TJH, could point to the Scott/GE world that SW and (I think??) Grokken were discussing earlier given that I'm confident the rest of the wagon is green.
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Silentwarrior,
On July 15 2015 11:52 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 08:55 silentwarrior wrote:On July 15 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:On July 15 2015 08:37 n00bKing wrote:
I don't think it's that big of a red flag. Sulfurus offered very little to take a stance on. I could see a new player looking at Sulfurus' filter and thinking "there is nothing here to work with." This is a decent point. He was a solo voter and having done too many VCAs to count I might be a little biased since he solo voted, but newbies probably don't have the concept of town consolidation down either, at least not yet. I didn't solo vote at the time i voted, noobking changed his vote. But I don't understand, what so bad with solovoting? The issue with solo voting is that it makes it harder to look at vote counts after a flip. Ideally you want 2 solid wagons so that when you hit on scum you can start to figuer out which players on the opposing wagon are likely scum and which, if any, are scum bussing a teammate. I'm pretty guilty of throwing my vote out solo in past newbie games, so I understand the temptation to ignore the majority and vote for your own reads. However if you think about it all it really does it make it easier for scum to swing the votes in their favor. Maybe HtS can answer a little better, also I'm sure there is someplace on the interwebs that has in depth talk about what is good for voteing patterns as town. My counter question to get you thinking about it more, what do you think could be good about solovoting?
Solovoting is an issue with closely contested wagons. You're removing yourself from the main wagons - there are a few legit reasons to solo vote but I'll allow you to see if you can sort that out.
Basically I'll explain town consolidation. Tic alluded to it but town need to consolidate at EoD so that scum cannot take advantage of a split up town. The other thing is accountability - if vote counts for multiple (like 4 or more) wagons (let's say you have 3-4 wagons roughtly with the same number of votes) are relatively equal then there's no accountability and town cannot analyse and scum can hide anywhere. In veteran games you'll see multiple scumreads and then town will assemble on where they think the lynch goes. So here in terms of vote splitting the other problem with solo voting is that you would appear (if you have no good reason) to remove yourself from being accountable on a larger wagon. You'll often hear that scum hide solo or off the main wagons.
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Voting_patterns
I took your vote in the context of your overall play and it seemed that in addition to what you said you just didn't even consider Sulfurus though Tic (or was it noob? one of them) qualified it might not have been much to work with, then the same could be argued for NHM, sparse yet suspicious.
Now this is a newbie game, so I am trying to keep that in mind. But hopefully this makes a little more sense why I'm viewing your play the way I am.
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On July 15 2015 11:57 Tictock wrote:
I overall agree with your post here (as with most of your posts this game) HtS. However I'm wondering if you could explain what you mean by percentage play here.
It could mean two things depending on whether you are talking about mechanics or behaviours.
Here I'm talking about behaviours. There are many ways to scumhunt - read progression, reads in the context of the thread, thread sentiment, VCA, tone, meta, types of pushes, etc. For the more methods you are having able to connect someone as scumlike, it's more likely they are scum.
For mechanics percentage play, it is very hard to explain so I'll give you an example.
Say Sulfurus flipped scum vanilla. KSC is NKed. There is a GF remaining and 9 townies remaining. Say one of those townies is a DT.
The DT can green check 10 of the remaining 11. If he greenchecks N2, there's a 90% chance the player he checked is town. Percentage play would dictate you do NOT lynch that greenchecked player UNLESS you have qualitative explanation (behaviour) to explain why that person is scum in which case he MUST be the godfather. Therefore the reason to lynch a greenchecked player must be very strong.
(Recent example: Bunnies in NSM10 was a greenchecked godfather who was lynched. She was scum because her reads never changed when the players' behaviours did.)
(Yes there's a role called mafia framer btw, but that's outside the scope of this game.)
I'm really bad at articulating things sometimes but I hope this makes sense.
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On July 15 2015 11:52 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 08:55 silentwarrior wrote:On July 15 2015 08:41 Half the Sky wrote:On July 15 2015 08:37 n00bKing wrote:
I don't think it's that big of a red flag. Sulfurus offered very little to take a stance on. I could see a new player looking at Sulfurus' filter and thinking "there is nothing here to work with." This is a decent point. He was a solo voter and having done too many VCAs to count I might be a little biased since he solo voted, but newbies probably don't have the concept of town consolidation down either, at least not yet. I didn't solo vote at the time i voted, noobking changed his vote. But I don't understand, what so bad with solovoting? The issue with solo voting is that it makes it harder to look at vote counts after a flip. Ideally you want 2 solid wagons so that when you hit on scum you can start to figuer out which players on the opposing wagon are likely scum and which, if any, are scum bussing a teammate. I'm pretty guilty of throwing my vote out solo in past newbie games, so I understand the temptation to ignore the majority and vote for your own reads. However if you think about it all it really does it make it easier for scum to swing the votes in their favor. Maybe HtS can answer a little better, also I'm sure there is someplace on the interwebs that has in depth talk about what is good for voteing patterns as town. My counter question to get you thinking about it more, what do you think could be good about solovoting?
See your point, the more the townies vote solo, the more mafia can swing lynches in their favor. But I think solovoting can be good if you really think that your read is correct and the others are wrong. Also could put some pressure on the person if you show that you are after him even when rest of town aren't.
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On July 16 2015 00:25 scott31337 wrote:
I've been really busy as well, but I can't forget to vote this time...We don't need any modkilled townies.
##Vote Tjhuggins
Care to explain that at all or are you just trying to save your scum-buddy ghandi?
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Pretty sad that there has been such little posting since I went to bed.
Like HtS pointed out I'm not happy that Scott posted this
On July 15 2015 07:18 scott31337 wrote:Yayy I'm dead in the other game so I can concentrate on this one now - I'll do some buttkicking tonight after house cleaning.
Only to follow up with a no explanation vote on TJ... That definitely is worthy of a scum read right there. Still think I'd rather deal with Scott tomorrow since there are more active scummy looking players right now.
Also TJ has effectively disappeared from the game...
This has got to be the lowest activity game I've seen, It's kinda sickening.
I would really like to hear from TJ before EoD, but I'm equally tempted to swing the hammer back over to GE atm... Still the way GE has semi-defended TJ and tried to shift votes away from him all day has me fairly certain they are the scum team so I don't really care which gets lynched atm.
Also thanks for trying to explain there HtS, not sure I fully get it after one read though. I think I get the general idea so I'll just mull it over a little and see if it doesn't make more sense to me later on.
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I am happy that we have almost everyone voting today, and that we are pretty much all consolidated on 2 wagons.
Will make for some great VCA later on.
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Welp less than 4 hours to go.
I feel like things are boreing atm.
Lets make them less boring.
##Unvote
##Vote: scott31337
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On July 15 2015 23:25 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Eh, Ghandi isn't even defending himself. XD
Not totally true. I've responded to the points against me that aren't valid. The issue is that the entire case against me is really that I'm a bad player in general, not that my play has been particularly scummy. That's just an appeal to my inexperience though, and generally isn't well-received as an argument. So I figured the best thing to do would be to go and carry on as though I wasn't a suspect and find an actual scummer; the town tunnel-visioning me is bad since I don't want them to lynch a townie.
Unfortunately that attempt was also called a blatant attempt at "reaching" for a lynch. Additionally I can't vote for TJ Huggins until it's clear that it's what everyone has decided, otherwise it will be perceived as me trying to get on the horse and save my own skin, which would be perceived as a scummy play. So my attempts to help the town are mostly ignored, and my attempts t o defend myself will likely only worsen both my situation and the town's situation.
That's why I'm largely keeping quiet, to stop town from constantly posting about me and start posting about scum. Unfortunately everyone is hitting TJ Huggins right now, which while not a bad lynch, should only be considered at the end of the day after we've investigated people that can actually defend themselves. I'm just saying, don't waste the entire day agreeing to lynch someone that's not present; only do it if you don't find somebody else first.
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^ So you're saying you picked Grokken just because you couldn't pick anyone else to make an argument around? If that's the case, we can basically discount your whole post on him right?
If you want to make a post on TJHuggins and if you think that he is Mafia then feel free to do so. Don't let anything stop you. Mayhaps you'll draw attention to a detail that no one else would have noticed which will make everyone switch votes.
I also dislike how you're thinking about how others will perceive you as town or not. If you're town there's really no need to worry about that since it WILL show in your actions especially if you post a ton.
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I wouldn't have posted about Grokken if he wasn't the scummiest person on my list. Don't spin it as "just because I couldn't pick anyone else". There's nothing that I said that should make you discount the argument. I'm keeping my vote there for a reason.
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On July 16 2015 04:17 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I wouldn't have posted about Grokken if he wasn't the scummiest person on my list. Don't spin it as "just because I couldn't pick anyone else". There's nothing that I said that should make you discount the argument. I'm keeping my vote there for a reason.
What I disliked about that post was how you did everything that you criticized Grokken for.
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On July 16 2015 04:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 04:17 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I wouldn't have posted about Grokken if he wasn't the scummiest person on my list. Don't spin it as "just because I couldn't pick anyone else". There's nothing that I said that should make you discount the argument. I'm keeping my vote there for a reason. What I disliked about that post was how you did everything that you criticized Grokken for.
Not so. My main criticism was that he voted for me as soon as he saw a good case was being made against me, and then decided that a short paragraph was enough to constitute that vote. If he started the argument I wouldn't really bother about it, and if he waited until Fidei himself had decided that I was guilty enough to vote, I wouldn't have noticed it either. What he did to me was see an opening and be proactive about it to protect himself and his filter. He looked like someone who was just waiting for someone to hop off of his Scumbuddy TJ's bandwagon. I've voted for you and Grokken, and at the time I voted those, nobody was talking about either of you. You in particular had been investigated before, but the argument had more or less been put to rest.
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On July 16 2015 02:30 Tictock wrote:
Pretty sad that there has been such little posting since I went to bed.
You don't have to like it, but if you think Ghandi/TJ is the likely scum team, then you can't really be too surprised that the thread died. It would mean that all 9 of the Town votes had been stacked up on scum. Ghandi makes some effort to make another player or two look bad (so that maybe they will emerge as a lynch candidate in the place of himself and TJ) but every time he says something, people tell him it just makes him look worse, and not better. So not too shocking that he went silent for a while. TJ might be so butthurt about Moosy's self-vote not counting that he can't even be bothered to defend himself at all.
On July 16 2015 02:30 Tictock wrote:Also TJ has effectively disappeared from the game...
So he's got suspicious behavior during Day 1, followed by low activity and unfulfilled promises on Day 2? That sounds like someone I'd be excited to lynch.
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@Ghandi:
1) If possible, please elaborate on what made you so confident in Scott being Town.
2) If possible, please explain why you said you weren't sold enough yet to vote against Moosy, and then voted against him (in the same post).
3) If possible, please explain what you dislike so much about my filter, which causes you to rank me as a neutral read, even though I posted the vote that buried Sulfurus.
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On July 16 2015 04:33 n00bKing wrote:
@Ghandi:
1) If possible, please elaborate on what made you so confident in Scott being Town.
2) If possible, please explain why you said you weren't sold enough yet to vote against Moosy, and then voted against him (in the same post).
3) If possible, please explain what you dislike so much about my filter, which causes you to rank me as a neutral read, even though I posted the vote that buried Sulfurus.
1) What made me confident that Scott was town is because he was an experienced mafia player (supposedly; Onegu kind of ballsed up the list). To me, it would seem like an experienced mafia player would want to, in some capacity, play the game. If he were picked as scum, he'd almost definitely be more engaged, but if he got a role like Vanilla Town, I could understand him more or less AFKing out of disinterest. Honestly I can't see someone noticing that they're mafia and just deciding that they'd rather not post than actually try and win the game. Why sign up at all if you don't want to play?
2) That was just a failure to communicate. I meant to say that I didn't want to lynch Moosy, but I was ok with keeping a vote on him if it got him to talk and act like an actual member of the town.
3) Just vague vibes on the way you were posting. I didn't write a lot about it because there wasn't much of substance there, just gut. It's similar to the way you said
On July 13 2015 07:53 n00bKing wrote:, I am also randomly townreading GhandiEAGLE for some reason or other.
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On July 16 2015 05:01 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
1) What made me confident that Scott was town is because he was an experienced mafia player (supposedly; Onegu kind of ballsed up the list). To me, it would seem like an experienced mafia player would want to, in some capacity, play the game. If he were picked as scum, he'd almost definitely be more engaged, but if he got a role like Vanilla Town, I could understand him more or less AFKing out of disinterest. Honestly I can't see someone noticing that they're mafia and just deciding that they'd rather not post than actually try and win the game. Why sign up at all if you don't want to play?
Have you played any other games with Scott that you can reasonably make that conclusion about him? Because there are plenty of people that lurk as scum on this forum that have way more experience than he. In fact you'll find in a number of veteran games a number of people will just not play as scum, or try in some difficulty before the team busses them. How are you rationalising that one faction would be more motivated than another, let alone a specific player if you don't have experience with him?
Most town are more motivated by solving the puzzle than trying to deceive, though some do the latter pretty well.
You also are wanting Grokken to be lynched. Who do you think is his teammate and why?
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On July 16 2015 05:01 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
1) What made me confident that Scott was town is because he was an experienced mafia player (supposedly; Onegu kind of ballsed up the list). To me, it would seem like an experienced mafia player would want to, in some capacity, play the game. If he were picked as scum, he'd almost definitely be more engaged, but if he got a role like Vanilla Town, I could understand him more or less AFKing out of disinterest. Honestly I can't see someone noticing that they're mafia and just deciding that they'd rather not post than actually try and win the game. Why sign up at all if you don't want to play?
Scott was lynched (as Mafia Roleblocker) on Day 1 of Newbie X, largely because he was AFKing. But maybe you didn't know that. Well, there's an example of Mafia AFK'ing in THIS game too. Sulfurus was lynched (as Mafia Godfather) on Day 1, and had all of 5 posts when he flipped Red. 5. Five. Five posts, I said. Additionally, "Why sign up at all if you don't want to play?" was all I could think, when watching Moosy in this game. But you were okay with voting against HIM, while randomly townreading Scott. I just feel like your reads are determined more by game circumstances than they are by post content.
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In the off chance that we are on the complete wrong track here I have a tinfoil hat theory that might become relevant later.
1 Hour to go and still no sign of TJ...
Are we all happy with the choices we have made today?
Also... that mind-meld from Hts and n00b. Exactly my thoughts on GE's post there so I'm thankful for not having to articulate them ^.^
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On July 16 2015 05:59 Tictock wrote:
In the off chance that we are on the complete wrong track here I have a tinfoil hat theory that might become relevant later.
1 Hour to go and still no sign of TJ...
Are we all happy with the choices we have made today?
Also... that mind-meld from Hts and n00b. Exactly my thoughts on GE's post there so I'm thankful for not having to articulate them ^.^
^this
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I am formulating some tinfoil hat theories as well but I really hope we don't have to go down that path. Yet.
I am treating TJ's absence as NAI, and really only taking his gameplay up to the point he went AFK into consideration btw.
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Still nothing from TJH.. He either doesn't feel the need tot defend himself or is really afk.. Ghandi and Scott are still the most scummy to me. (Posting from mobile)
##unvote
##vote GhandiEagle
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FYI
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
Per tiebreaker rules TJH most recently had more votes, so he gets lynched regardless of warning.
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Annnnnnnddddddd ninjaed.........WP just hammered.
GhandiEAGLE(5): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
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On July 16 2015 06:24 Half the Sky wrote:
Annnnnnnddddddd ninjaed.........WP just hammered.
GhandiEAGLE(5): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
TJ is actually at 3 votes. I'll be around at the deadline to countersnipe, if needed. But I won't break my back trying to talk anyone into switching off of Ghandi and onto TJ. Ghandi is a pretty good lynch, I think. And if he flips Town, we won't have to feel TOO sad about it, because it's so likely we would have lynched him sooner or later anyway.
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Ehh clearly nobody was into my shenenigans play.
##Unvote
##Vote: GhandiEagle
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Day 2 Vote Count
GhandiEAGLE(6): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock
TJHuggins(3): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(1): , TJHuggins
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 6 votes.
Day 1 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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IF GE is town then this will get harder but not terrible yet. I still think that D1 wagon is pure based on the timing and speed of the wagon and now that we know KSC is confirmed. I'm more concerned about some of the earlier nullish reads I had if this is a mislynch.
Unless scum n00b or Fidei decided to yolo d1......nah I'm not going down that road yet
/tinfoil
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To be fair even if GE is scum, I will have a tougher time deciding between Scott and TJH because there are associations for both.
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Be sure to use correct voting format
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On July 16 2015 06:47 Half the Sky wrote:
To be fair even if GE is scum, I will have a tougher time deciding between Scott and TJH because there are associations for both.
I won't have a tougher time. But if GE is scum, it won't really matter. We should have time to hang them both. And silentwarrior too, even. If GE is scum, we have to be REALLY far off base to still lose somehow.
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Night 2
GhandiEAGLE the Vanilla Town has been lynched
Please submit your night actions to all hosts.
Night ends in
TJhuggins have been warned for failing to vote.
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Day 2 Final Vote Count
GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, MoosyDoosy
TJHuggins(2): Noobking, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(1): , TJHuggins
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 7 votes.
Day 1 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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GGs GE.
We'll sort this out.
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Ugh.. that really sucks.
GE you said it yourself that you were being scum read for playing badly, so you should have fought more to explain to us your reads and try harder to prove you are town. Not just semi-roll over and make one post pushing your scum read. You never bothered to respond to why we didn't like your case on Grok, you never answered the questions I posted to you, and the point you made about your scott read was weak for the reasons HtS and n00b pointed out.
TJ is in no way off the hook, and now Scott looks much worse and needs to really step it up if he is town.
I kinda get what WP was saying about swapping off TJ to GE, it was kinda my thinking as well. Still you guys probably shouldn't just write off our vote switches.
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Assumptions - Sulfurus wagon was a pure wagon.
Starting point VCA
Day 1
Sulfurus(4): Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking <--------likely pure wagon
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy
Day 2 <4h to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(2): scott31337, TJHuggins
Day 2 <40m to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(5): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins[/QUOTE]
Day 2 EoD
GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, MoosyDoosy
TJHuggins(2): Noobking, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
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Oh MD ninja voted did he?
MD we need to start hearing about your reads man. You've been a terrible & unhelpful all game long and now it looks like you setup a last minuet vote switch to GE.
Actually MD is probably the best lynch tomorrow if he does not explain himself in solid detail. I would never bring him into MyLo or LyLo with the way he's been playing.
Scott is in that same boat, so between the 2 of them.
TJ at least had decent content D1.
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On July 16 2015 07:07 Tictock wrote:
TJ is in no way off the hook, and now Scott looks much worse and needs to really step it up if he is town.
I kinda get what WP was saying about swapping off TJ to GE, it was kinda my thinking as well. Still you guys probably shouldn't just write off our vote switches.
Scott could have tried to distance himself from that vote given that a lot of people were scumreading him. He is experienced enough to know this. But it's realllllyyyy wifomy though and extremely high risk (assuming TJH is scum) given that scum are already down a player and he wouldn't stand a chance if he was the last scummer.
I think Scott is actually LESS likely to be scum here from a VCA standpoint. He could be, yes, but less likely.
Of course if TJH is town then Scott looks significantly worse.
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On July 16 2015 07:11 Tictock wrote:
Oh MD ninja voted did he?
MD we need to start hearing about your reads man. You've been a terrible & unhelpful all game long and now it looks like you setup a last minuet vote switch to GE.
Actually MD is probably the best lynch tomorrow if he does not explain himself in solid detail. I would never bring him into MyLo or LyLo with the way he's been playing.
Scott is in that same boat, so between the 2 of them.
TJ at least had decent content D1.
Wrong, WonnaPlay hammered. What do you mean by MD set him up?
Ninjavoting is shite though.
But in your world, if MD is scum, it means he set up his own teammate Sulfurus to be lynched d1. Do you think he was faking his breadcrumbs and Sulfurus wanted to bus him d1? Why would a scum player purposely act scummy (referring to MD here)?
If MD and Sulfurus were scum, why would Sulfurus slip like he did d1? He could have just said nothing.
And TJ had content but some of it was questionable.
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On July 16 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 07:07 Tictock wrote:
TJ is in no way off the hook, and now Scott looks much worse and needs to really step it up if he is town.
I kinda get what WP was saying about swapping off TJ to GE, it was kinda my thinking as well. Still you guys probably shouldn't just write off our vote switches. Scott could have tried to distance himself from that vote given that a lot of people were scumreading him. He is experienced enough to know this. But it's realllllyyyy wifomy though and extremely high risk (assuming TJH is scum) given that scum are already down a player and he wouldn't stand a chance if he was the last scummer. I think Scott is actually LESS likely to be scum here from a VCA standpoint. He could be, yes, but less likely. Of course if TJH is town then Scott looks significantly worse.
Ehh, I see where you are coming from here, but to me Scott looks worse than TJ right now.
He has made several promises to us to give us more , and has failed to do so. The only decent posts he made where the ones where he was talking about D1 VCA stuff, which I think WP or n00b pointed out was an easy post to make as that was the general sentiment at the time.
What do you think about MD now HtS?
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Assumptions - Sulfurus wagon was a pure wagon.
Starting point VCA
Day 1
Sulfurus(4): Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking <--------likely pure wagon
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy
Day 2 <4h to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(2): scott31337, TJHuggins
Day 2 <40m to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(5): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins[/QUOTE]
Day 2 EoD
GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, MoosyDoosy
TJHuggins(2): Noobking, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
Alright, give me some time to figure this out....
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On July 16 2015 07:21 Tictock wrote:
He has made several promises to us to give us more , and has failed to do so. The only decent posts he made where the ones where he was talking about D1 VCA stuff, which I think WP or n00b pointed out was an easy post to make as that was the general sentiment at the time.
What do you think about MD now HtS?
Yeah the VCA post there was pretty easy, as for MD, I'd have to assume right now no change from the vote alone, because his vote had zero bearing on the outcome, it wouldn't help or hurt as either alignment.
Ninjavoting sucks so it's not a point in his favour but I'm more concerned about the timing of the vote with anyone because you can trace timing to motivation.
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On July 16 2015 07:18 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 07:11 Tictock wrote:
Oh MD ninja voted did he?
MD we need to start hearing about your reads man. You've been a terrible & unhelpful all game long and now it looks like you setup a last minuet vote switch to GE.
Actually MD is probably the best lynch tomorrow if he does not explain himself in solid detail. I would never bring him into MyLo or LyLo with the way he's been playing.
Scott is in that same boat, so between the 2 of them.
TJ at least had decent content D1.
Wrong, WonnaPlay hammered. What do you mean by MD set him up? Ninjavoting is shite though. But in your world, if MD is scum, it means he set up his own teammate Sulfurus to be lynched d1. Do you think he was faking his breadcrumbs and Sulfurus wanted to bus him d1? Why would a scum player purposely act scummy (referring to MD here)? If MD and Sulfurus were scum, why would Sulfurus slip like he did d1? He could have just said nothing. And TJ had content but some of it was questionable.
I never said any of the bolded line, think you misread something.
Well MD effectily wasted his vote D1 and now D2 ninja voted (and not in the voting thread mind you...) onto someone who confirmed town.
... ehh Thinking back on D1 your right Sulf did make that post where he basically said he didn't care if MD got lynched. I also get what you mean by his play, but that doesn't mean we should accept him continuing that level of play.
Still my point was that MD needs to start giving some real reads, because I'm not comfortable bringing him into late game with what we've seen from him thus far. I suppose we still have plenty of time before that's an issue though.
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Offhand
More likely scum from vote analysis alone:
Grokken - AFK vote
WannaPlay - hammered him
scott31337 - possible distancing if TJH was town
Less likely scum
Tictock - tried separate wagon
not sure
Silentwarrior - doublecheck reads d1
TJHuggins - afked without voting. Could be tactical since he did acknowledge that people could get away with one no-vote at EoD1
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DT, if any should check any of SW, Grokken, WP or Scott.
If the vig did not shoot N1, I would shoot either Scott or TJH.
Going to think harder.
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Sorry just lurking and thinking atm...
On July 16 2015 07:30 Half the Sky wrote:
TJHuggins - afked without voting. Could be tactical since he did acknowledge that people could get away with one no-vote at EoD1
I'm also remembering that you made a big post early on in D2 about how it was bad to make policy lynches D2. Kinda leads into your point, but I'm also not sure if that makes him more or less likely to be scum here.
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I did not ninja vote and I did not change my vote. Please change your list before you raise all hell against me Half the Sky. Go the goddamn voting thread for the rest of you people to confirm this. I did not change my vote off TJHuggins.
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On July 16 2015 07:24 Half the Sky wrote:
Assumptions - Sulfurus wagon was a pure wagon.
Starting point VCA
Day 1
Sulfurus(4): Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking <--------likely pure wagon
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy
Day 2 <4h to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(2): scott31337, TJHuggins
Day 2 <40m to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(5): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
Day 2 EoD
GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, MoosyDoosy
TJHuggins(2): Noobking, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
Alright, give me some time to figure this out....
[/QUOTE]
Yeah why the hell am I on GhandiEAGLE. Like go read the voting thread buddy or look at the mod list...
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On July 16 2015 07:30 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 07:18 Half the Sky wrote:On July 16 2015 07:11 Tictock wrote:
Oh MD ninja voted did he?
MD we need to start hearing about your reads man. You've been a terrible & unhelpful all game long and now it looks like you setup a last minuet vote switch to GE.
Actually MD is probably the best lynch tomorrow if he does not explain himself in solid detail. I would never bring him into MyLo or LyLo with the way he's been playing.
Scott is in that same boat, so between the 2 of them.
TJ at least had decent content D1.
Wrong, WonnaPlay hammered. What do you mean by MD set him up? Ninjavoting is shite though. But in your world, if MD is scum, it means he set up his own teammate Sulfurus to be lynched d1. Do you think he was faking his breadcrumbs and Sulfurus wanted to bus him d1? Why would a scum player purposely act scummy (referring to MD here)? If MD and Sulfurus were scum, why would Sulfurus slip like he did d1? He could have just said nothing. And TJ had content but some of it was questionable. I never said any of the bolded line, think you misread something. Well MD effectily wasted his vote D1 and now D2 ninja voted (and not in the voting thread mind you...) onto someone who confirmed town. ... ehh Thinking back on D1 your right Sulf did make that post where he basically said he didn't care if MD got lynched. I also get what you mean by his play, but that doesn't mean we should accept him continuing that level of play. Still my point was that MD needs to start giving some real reads, because I'm not comfortable bringing him into late game with what we've seen from him thus far. I suppose we still have plenty of time before that's an issue though.
OMFG I DID NOT NINJA VOTE. Lol plz read the voting thread ya'll. Ugh Half the Sky why did you have to start this shit. Are you trying to kill me or something?
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On July 16 2015 07:39 Half the Sky wrote:
DT, if any should check any of SW, Grokken, WP or Scott.
If the vig did not shoot N1, I would shoot either Scott or TJH.
Going to think harder.
I support this post.
I would personally check either Grok or Scott myself.
If we have a Vigi they should absolutely shoot tonight. I feel like it was silly to hold the shot N1, but maybe not that bad.
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On July 16 2015 07:00 Onegu wrote: Day 2 Final Vote Count GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, MoosyDoosy TJHuggins(2): Noobking, scott31337 Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE Not Voting(1): , TJHuggins Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 7 votes.
Day 1 ends in PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
Yeah Onegu go fix this since you're mod. I did not vote on GhandiEAGLE. Plz go read the damn voting thread.
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On July 16 2015 07:44 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I did not ninja vote and I did not change my vote. Please change your list before you raise all hell against me Half the Sky. Go the goddamn voting thread for the rest of you people to confirm this. I did not change my vote off TJHuggins.
On July 16 2015 07:00 Onegu wrote: Day 2 Final Vote Count GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, MoosyDoosyTJHuggins(2): Noobking, scott31337 Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE Not Voting(1): , TJHuggins Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 7 votes.
Day 1 ends in PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
Moosy, I pulled my counts STRAIGHT FROM THE MOD. Look at the top of the page.
Then the mod made an error. I am sorry, I looked at the top of the page of this thread.
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^ Yeah I just saw that as well.
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@ Moosy
Are you saying Onegu made a mistake in this post?
On July 16 2015 07:00 Onegu wrote: Day 2 Final Vote Count GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, MoosyDoosy TJHuggins(2): Noobking, scott31337 Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE Not Voting(1): , TJHuggins Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 7 votes.
Day 1 ends in PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
If so you need to PM him or something to fix that.
I did check Voting thread and you never did change your vote there.
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REVISED TABLES
Assumptions - Sulfurus wagon was a pure wagon.
Day 2 final vote corrected - MD stays on TJH
Starting point VCA
Day 1
Sulfurus(4): Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking <--------likely pure wagon
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy
Day 2 <4h to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(2): scott31337, TJHuggins
Day 2 <40m to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(5): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins[/QUOTE]
Day 2 EoD
GhandiEAGLE(6): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock,
TJHuggins(3): Noobking, scott31337, MoosyDoosy
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
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fuck I lost track of the time
Gg guys
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Really sorry Ghandi GG.
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Day 2 Final Vote Count
GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, Noobking
TJHuggins(2): , scott31337, MoosyDoosy
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(1): , TJHuggins
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently GhandiEAGLE is set to be lynched with 7 votes.
Day 1 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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Sorry this is correct somehow I moved MoosyDoosy and not noobking... My bad...
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Oh, damn. Sorry GE, should have seen that you were town, no excuses here. I still think scott and TJH are the scummiest right now, so if there are any BLUES, you should check them. Have a theory im working on, gonna post it later during the night.
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On July 16 2015 07:30 Half the Sky wrote:
Offhand
More likely scum from vote analysis alone:
Grokken - AFK vote
WannaPlay - hammered him - trace reads - is he blending in?
scott31337 - possible distancing if TJH was town
Less likely scum
Tictock - tried separate wagon
not sure
Silentwarrior - doublecheck reads d1
TJHuggins - afked without voting. Could be tactical since he did acknowledge that people could get away with one no-vote at EoD1
No changes in my points or my blue recommendations.
Medic, if there is one, do as you please. I think top towns should be obvious.
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Ugh, alright, revising the tables a THIRD time.....
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On July 16 2015 07:58 Half the Sky wrote:
Ugh, alright, revising the tables a THIRD time.....
XD this is getting a bit out of hand huh?
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REVISED TABLES
Assumptions - Sulfurus wagon was a pure wagon.
Day 2 final vote corrected - MD stays on TJH
Starting point VCA
Day 1
Sulfurus(4): Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking <--------likely pure wagon
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy
Day 2 <4h to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(2): scott31337, TJHuggins
Day 2 <40m to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(5): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins[/QUOTE]
Day 2 EoD
GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Ticktock, Noobking,
TJHuggins(2): scott31337, MoosyDoosy
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
7-2-1 vote heavily indicates mislynch.
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Grokken is looking a LOT worse here as the first vote on GE - scum have to decide early on whether to ML or bus. Check when he voted relative to the scumreads coming in. That is critical for ultimately determining his alignment.
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So...some analysis and quick filter reading:
Town: n00bKing, Fidei86, Half the Sky, MoosyDoosy
Neutral: silentwarrior, Ticktock
People to look into: TJHuggins, WonnaPlay, Grokken, scott31337
After reading into the 4 ppl at the bottom and GhandiEAGLE's filter again, I'd like to say that I read WonnaPlay as a townie. His thought process moves around a lot like mine did in my first newbie game so I can understand where he comes from. So I'd like to bump him up into the townie circle.
scott3LEET needs to post more because I'm getting Mafia vibes from him with the way he's posting.
The most interesting thing I came across was Grokken and silentwarrior. silentwarrior lists Grokken as town lean while Grokken is starting to look worse and worse. I hate making associative cases but if n00bKing would look into this it would be great because he's decent at sniffing these out.
I'm going to read into Ticktock and TJHuggins some more as well as hunting for some silentwarrior and Grokken interaction.
Thoughts?
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If anything else, Ghandi's death makes me feel guilty.
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Shit I missed the vote. Sorry guys.
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I reviewed the past few days last night but didn't have time to make a big post. I was going to make one today before the day ended but got home late.
I would have voted for Grokken. I think Ghandi was a mistake.
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Lol just read TJHuggins. We need more from you buddy. Now's the time to give us that "critical information." I realize your last post said you're dealing with real life and that would explain the fact that you didn't vote but we need your thoughts now.
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On July 16 2015 08:16 TJHuggins wrote:
As in - next day phase.
Nights are not silent in forum mafia, I know they are silent in video mafia. You should get your thoughts out here if you can do so now.
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This was actually one of the major reasons I put him as #2 on my mafia list on day 1. I thought that it was probable he was caught and a lie and was tying to "talk" his way out of it.
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On July 16 2015 08:16 TJHuggins wrote:
Tomorrow.
If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect.
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He characterizes it as a "mistake." But what he is describing isn't really what I would call a mistake; it's more like - I'm not sure what to call it- but not a mistake. If what he says is true, his thought appeared to get mumble jumbled just due to the time that passed between the time when he first started typing his post to when he finished. There's nothing he could do to avoid that really. It seems odd to call that a "mistake."
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On July 16 2015 08:22 TJHuggins wrote:This was actually one of the major reasons I put him as #2 on my mafia list on day 1. I thought that it was probable he was caught and a lie and was tying to "talk" his way out of it.
You mean #3? I know a point of contention with you was you had Sulfurus as #2....when you didn't previously mention him. But carry on....that's minor.
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Grokken post more.
Looking at his filter, I think the latter part of it concerning Ghandi is decent, but the first part concerning me is quite something.
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Interesting to note that Grokken was town leaning silentwarrior earlier as well. If silentwarrior is around, I'd like to hear his thoughts on Grokken concerning how the vote count turned out.
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MD, I'm off to bed. It's past midnight here :/
Stupid timezones :/
Fidei, I know RL is keeping you busy - yes I talk/play dota with him outside the game so I do have OGI - but if you could lend your voice a bit it would be grand <3
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On July 16 2015 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect.
I may die. But, considering a significant amount of people think that I am mafia (see the three players who voted on me this day), understandably so since I have been very inactive this day, I think it wouldn't be terrible for town if I did die. It will save me from potentially getting mislynched, and keep someone who is much more towny in the game.
So I will let the Mafia make the decision.
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On July 16 2015 08:30 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 16 2015 08:16 TJHuggins wrote:
Tomorrow. If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect. I may die. But, considering a significant amount of people think that I am mafia (see the three players who voted on me this day), understandably so since I have been very inactive this day, I think it wouldn't be terrible for town if I did die. It will save me from potentially getting mislynched, and keep someone who is much more towny in the game. So I will let the Mafia make the decision.
"...let the Mafia make the decision." is a very very bad way to put it.
Post the info 1 min before deadline. You probably won't die but it pays to be safe.
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On July 16 2015 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect.
TJ might be a good person for Medic to visit tonight...
Just sayin.
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And exactly how "important" is that "critical information" if it wouldn't be terrible for town if you died? I don't know TJ, but things are strange here...
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On July 16 2015 08:34 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 16 2015 08:16 TJHuggins wrote:
Tomorrow. If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect. TJ might be a good person for Medic to visit tonight... Just sayin.
There are better people to visit than TJ imo.
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I also brought back some swiss cheese if anyone is interested.
Mostly took home swishh Chocolate though...
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On July 16 2015 08:35 Tictock wrote:
I also brought back some swiss cheese if anyone is interested.
Mostly took home swishh Chocolate though...
Who do you think is Mafia and why?
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On July 16 2015 08:34 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 16 2015 08:16 TJHuggins wrote:
Tomorrow. If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect. TJ might be a good person for Medic to visit tonight...Just sayin.
Why do you think he's town?
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Actually Tictock......disregard that last question of mine.
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I actually don't know how I feel about Tictock...his filter is very weird and he was town reading a lot of people who are looking very bad. I'm revising my list.
Town: n00bKing, Fidei86, Half the Sky, MoosyDoosy
Town lean: WonnaPlay
Neutral: silentwarrior
People to look into: TJHuggins, Grokken, scott31337, Tictock
Medic should choose from Townie circle. silentwarrior only really becomes suspicious through associative cases which is why he's neutral. WonnaPlay looks like a solid newbie player. The four I listed are really weird and we have to look into them and they have to post some more.
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So...how do people like active townie Moosy?
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On July 16 2015 08:48 MoosyDoosy wrote:
So...how do people like active townie Moosy?
I'll tell you when I see him.
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On July 13 2015 07:53 n00bKing wrote:
In addition to the 4 players who voted out the Godfather, I am also randomly townreading GhandiEAGLE for some reason or other. So that's 5 people I feel pretty good about.
Man, if only Ghandi had never made another post after I said this...lol
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On July 16 2015 09:58 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:53 n00bKing wrote:
In addition to the 4 players who voted out the Godfather, I am also randomly townreading GhandiEAGLE for some reason or other. So that's 5 people I feel pretty good about. Man, if only Ghandi had never made another post after I said this...lol
Thoughts about my thoughts? Come on n00bKing I'm trying to be active here. Help me out a little bit buddy.
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On July 16 2015 08:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Grokken post more.
Looking at his filter, I think the latter part of it concerning Ghandi is decent, but the first part concerning me is quite something.
Sure. I've been reading the thread, but I haven't posted much because I haven't had much to say. My only scumread day 2 was Ghandi. I've been reading filters and such, but haven't been able to find anything particularly scummy. HtS made a good case against TJH, but I felt my read towards Ghandi was stronger.
With Ghandi gone, I think TJH is the most likely to be scum. I don't see any reason to think HtS' case against him is any less relevant now than it was before. I don't understand why TicTock wants a medic to protect him. He is one of the more suspicious townie (if not mafia), and it seems more likely for mafia to target someone like HtS/Fidei/n00b. TicTock has been scumreading TJH, which makes me even more surprised to see him suggest TJH as a medic target.
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On July 16 2015 10:12 Grokken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 08:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Grokken post more.
Looking at his filter, I think the latter part of it concerning Ghandi is decent, but the first part concerning me is quite something. Sure. I've been reading the thread, but I haven't posted much because I haven't had much to say. My only scumread day 2 was Ghandi. I've been reading filters and such, but haven't been able to find anything particularly scummy. HtS made a good case against TJH, but I felt my read towards Ghandi was stronger. With Ghandi gone, I think TJH is the most likely to be scum. I don't see any reason to think HtS' case against him is any less relevant now than it was before. I don't understand why TicTock wants a medic to protect him. He is one of the more suspicious townie (if not mafia), and it seems more likely for mafia to target someone like HtS/Fidei/n00b. TicTock has been scumreading TJH, which makes me even more surprised to see him suggest TJH as a medic target.
Give me more of your thoughts on Tictock then. Also please explain your thought process behind your voting and the reason why you did/did not change your mind in each of them.
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On July 16 2015 01:44 Half the Sky wrote:
I took your vote in the context of your overall play and it seemed that in addition to what you said you just didn't even consider Sulfurus though Tic (or was it noob? one of them) qualified it might not have been much to work with, then the same could be argued for NHM, sparse yet suspicious.
Yeah, I think this is noteworthy. It was me that hypothesized that maybe silentwarrior didn't comment on Sulfurus because there just wasn't much in Sulf's filter to work with. But "not much in the filter to work with" didn't stop silentwarrior from voting against NHM.
As silentwarrior mentioned, I hadn't moved off of NHM yet when he casts that vote. So if the tide turns against NHM and he gets lynched and flips green, SW can at least say that his responsibility for NHM's death is not as great as mine.
If the scum team were to be Sulfurus/TJHuggins/silentwarrior, then SW's reason to be looking for some random place to toss his vote is fairly straightforward. TJ and Sulf had already voted against Moosy. So maybe SW would want to vote elsewhere, just to keep them from all following the same blueprint. Once the push on Sulfurus gets going, and we have a Sulf vs. Moosy race, which one can silentwarrior reasonably choose in that situation? Again, he doesn't really want to vote against Moosy, when both of his teammates are already there. But he doesn't really want to vote Sulfurus, and get the Godfather lynched on Day 1. So he sits tight and hopes the Moosy lynch will go through (all the more likely, if the Scum team was thinking that Moosy's self-vote actually counted). By the time I drop the hammer on Sulfurus, there are only 12 minutes left in the Day. And there were only 4 minutes left in the Day by the time the vote count is clarified by the Mods, making it absolutely clear that my vote on Sulfurus DID drop the hammer on him. Too late for the scum team to get Moosy back in the lead, even if silentwarrior was around (and not legitimately afk).
This "association case" against TJ/silentwarrior is not spectacularly strong. But I do think SW choosing to vote against NHM is a point against him, based on what the explanation would be for him to never say anything about Sulfurus, and based on how I can reason out a motivation for him to vote there, if he's Scum.
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So n00bKing. Can you agree that a lynch amongst the following people is good? TJHuggins, Grokken, scott31337, Tictock.
Interesting thoughts on silentwarrior, but as I said in my post at the top of the page, silentwarrior only becomes Mafia through associative cases (which you are decent at) so I'd say we hold off on him until later. What I really want are your thoughts on the 4 I listed.
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On July 16 2015 07:47 Tictock wrote:
If we have a Vigi they should absolutely shoot tonight.
And target whom?
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Well I'm currently entertaining some WIFOM thinking. So considering that if I were Vigi I would shoot
Scott > Grok > SW
I suppose I wouldn't be too upset if I get Vigi shot, but I'd be expecting decent reasons as to why post-game. Also I can promise some better stuff next phase since I wont be catching up or traveling.
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On July 16 2015 10:37 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 10:12 Grokken wrote:On July 16 2015 08:28 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Grokken post more.
Looking at his filter, I think the latter part of it concerning Ghandi is decent, but the first part concerning me is quite something. Sure. I've been reading the thread, but I haven't posted much because I haven't had much to say. My only scumread day 2 was Ghandi. I've been reading filters and such, but haven't been able to find anything particularly scummy. HtS made a good case against TJH, but I felt my read towards Ghandi was stronger. With Ghandi gone, I think TJH is the most likely to be scum. I don't see any reason to think HtS' case against him is any less relevant now than it was before. I don't understand why TicTock wants a medic to protect him. He is one of the more suspicious townie (if not mafia), and it seems more likely for mafia to target someone like HtS/Fidei/n00b. TicTock has been scumreading TJH, which makes me even more surprised to see him suggest TJH as a medic target. Give me more of your thoughts on Tictock then. Also please explain your thought process behind your voting and the reason why you did/did not change your mind in each of them.
It just seems contradictory to me that he wants to medic protect TJH after scumreading him. He seems to be an experienced player, and the post doesnt make sense to me. I guess it could be an attempt to redirect the medic from the confirmed townies so that it's easier to target them? I haven't really sensed anything scummy from him so far though. I would like to hear his explanation before I make a judgement.
For day 1, my list post was rushed and I didn't put a lot of thought into my reads. I was mostly just throwing out my opinions. People pointed out your clowny posts and I changed my position. I wasn't around for end of day, so I never got a chance to change my vote.
For day 2, Ghandi made this post:
On July 14 2015 08:09 GhandiEAGLE wrote:I think Moosy is either playing a really abysmal town, or is scum. I'm still not sold enough to vote (I realize I say that a lot), but honestly constantly deflecting suspicion with sarcasm. Despite that sarcasm, he doesn't do shit for the town. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says. Why did this happen? It made little sense to ask me, other than I was one of the few early proactive people on the thread and it would make sense to get me on his side. He had no real reason to ask me specifically here, and no real reason to believe that my opinions would hold much weight. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:53 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :| Exactly what I was thinking. His first post seems to be more of a first page banter post. The second one is asking for clarification although as you say, it leads nowhere. But then again, newer players have a tendency to ask for clarification without having a drive behind it. Any thoughts on the suspicion of you Ghandi? :3 There it is again. No reason to be prodding me except that he might suspect that I'm scum (unlikely at that point in the thread), or he's trying to deflect conversations, looking like he moves conversation forward, without actually doing so. Then he didn't vote, which I didn't either because I forgot about the separate voting thread. So this is excusable because I suck :/ Also, he constantly uses emoticons, which I distrust by nature and generally indicate self-consciousness (I'm not kidding it often points to mafia). Never trust an emoticon. The rest of his filter is absolute trash, by the way. Nothing helpful at all; all of his posts constantly criticize other people for suspecting him, while offering literally zero content to push the town forward. If he isn't scum, I'd still policy lynch him Day 3 since based_HTS gave us plenty of time. I need meaningful contribution from Moosey or I'm not likely moving off of my vote without heavy evidence on someone else. ##Vote: MoosyDoosy
At this point he had yet to make any real contributions, he had only made short posts, as well as an incorrect post about TJH being an "early bird" on the Sulf train. Still he accuses you of having a trashy filter as well as not contributing. I didn't really get a chance to pressure him cause Fidei beat me to it. It quickly turned into a back and forth between Fidei and Ghandi, and I couldn't really get a word in because I was busy reading the thread and trying to comprehend what they were saying.
Then he made a list post where I found a lot of very inaccurate things:
On July 14 2015 08:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
1) Fidei.
Town read; pushing me for my admittedly shitty posting when there was no real consideration of it earlier is pretty darn town.
2) WonnaPlay
Lurk City, hard to know if spooked or noob, but sketchy either way. Because its a noob game all lurkers basically stay in neutral range, instead of my usual neutral-lurker range.
3) N00bking.
Neutral; dont like his filter but he voted for sulfurus, so the two cancel each other out.
4) Silentwarrior.
Shit-tier read list, bandwagonning, lurking. Didn't vote Moosy N1, so neutral or bad scum imo.
5) NHM/Tictoc
Awful posting but apparently had an excuse so mleh. Tictoc says he's followed the game, and showed that he was present in the thread, but has yet to give anything meaningful to the game, so he's on my naughty list until something comes up. Most lurkers commit, but he's already poked his head recently.
6) Moosy
Shit town, prodding him to post better hopefully he actually does, otherwise lynch for derailing conversation. No more discussion on him because its also just derailing now. C'mon man shape up.
7) TJ Huggins
Bandwagonned on Moosy, pointed a lot of fingers, but generally been pretty baseless. This isn't quite a 180 of what I said earlier, because I said in my post that he wasn't scum to me. That hasn't changed; I should have clarified that I didn't think he was that innocent either, he's high up on my neutral list. Just not enough yet to vote on him.
8) Grokken.
Seems pretty sketchy to me. Need to chug through filter again, but voting on me even before Fidei did just feels like someone trying to stand out and be opportunistic. He didn't start the attack, so he doesn't assume culpability if I get lynched and I'm town. He also can't hold onto an accusation.
That said, he didn't fight Sulfurus being lynched; he voted Moosy but didn't protest Sulfurus' death. That doesn't mean, however, that he's not my scum read. Because he is.
9) HtS
Untouchable right now. No fun there :<
10) scottblahblahnumbers
The WORST kind of lurker, if he was maf, I'd be willing to bet he'd be more active, especially since he's not on the noob list; who plays mafia multiple times without wanting to actually participate? For that reasoning he's really town to me, but damn I hate how he's basically not in the game. It's frustrating.
On July 14 2015 08:56 Grokken wrote:
I disagree with your reads. How can you think MD is town, but still list n00bking as neutral? You mean he just casually bussed the GF? Also, what don't you like about his filter?
SW didnt vote for MD, which is neutral/scum, and I voted for MD which is also scummy?
Also, how can you say scott is "definitely" town after just 1 post?
There was no reason for me to change my vote after this. Pretty much everyone was agreeing that Ghandi looked suspicious.
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On July 16 2015 12:25 Tictock wrote:
Well I'm currently entertaining some WIFOM thinking. So considering that if I were Vigi I would shoot
Scott > Grok > SW
I suppose I wouldn't be too upset if I get Vigi shot, but I'd be expecting decent reasons as to why post-game. Also I can promise some better stuff next phase since I wont be catching up or traveling.
You have been saying all game that you have a town read on me, and now I'm second on your shoot list. Why?
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@ Grokken
I had a townlean on you based off your first list post D1.
Upon reading your filter I found nothing else supporting that read and there have been some decent points brought up against you.
While it is ideal if the Vigi is able to find and shoot scum it is also valid for a Vigi to shoot hard to read players or people who are under suspicion. The idea is to make the game easier for town the following day by either shooting scum or shooting bad town so the rest of Town can focus on the real scum.
Basically you've fallen to a null read for me.
I considered MD for that list as well, but HtS reminded me that Sulf spewed him town and he's been trying a bit harder tonight.
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On July 16 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 07:07 Tictock wrote:
TJ is in no way off the hook, and now Scott looks much worse and needs to really step it up if he is town. Scott could have tried to distance himself from that vote given that a lot of people were scumreading him. He is experienced enough to know this. But it's realllllyyyy wifomy though and extremely high risk (assuming TJH is scum) given that scum are already down a player and he wouldn't stand a chance if he was the last scummer. I think Scott is actually LESS likely to be scum here from a VCA standpoint.
I agree.
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Good morning,
Spent about an hour writing a lengthy VCA. Bear with me, the wall of text is painful but....
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REVISED VCA v4 - Analysis through d2
Assumptions
Sulfurus wagon was a pure wagon given the nature and timing of all the votes.
Day 2 final vote corrected - NK on GE
Day 1
Sulfurus(4): Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain
Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy
From Day 1, it's widely sorted that the Sulfurus wagon is almost certainly town unless either of Fidei or n00bKing yoloed it but there is no such evidence either way to prove that they have either in their reads or votes.
On the MD wagon, it is highly unlikely that the entire scumteam hid on the MD wagon. There was reasoning for TJH to be mafia as he voted MD with Sulfurus in second without mentioning the latter and Grokken's post seemed alright (among other things that I hashed in my case). Both silentwarrior and NHM (now Ticktock) solo voted, but they are both unlikely to be scum.
I am willing to bet one of them is though - SW has a distancing issue along with potential association issues with Sulfurus (aforementioned) and gave an argument for NHM that he could have for Sulfurus. NHM voted for Fidei very suspiciously before he departed the game.
We know GE is confirmed, so he's green.
MD is likely green as Sulfurus' vote has made him liable for lynch, prior to n00bking hammering him. More on this later.
Scott is a policy lynch for D1 as he's done jack all, and WP is a null read at best largely because of the parroting, though towards the end of D1 he does appear to be slightly more towny. The no vote itself however is NAI.
Grokken was pinged out early in the day for changing his read on MD to reflect thread sentiment but remarked it was a mistake. A few people are skeptical of this and another potential issue is that his postcount is low which is generally a scumtell for newbie scum struggling to make reads. His list post otherwise isn't generally terrible though and I had him at null through D1 thinking he'd also AFK voted.
Day 2 <4h to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(4): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior
TJHuggins(4): Ticktock, Noobking, MoosyDoosy, WonnaPlay
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(2): scott31337, TJHuggins
Grokken votes GE very early in the day before Fidei gets his vote down and scum often in this situation have to decide whether to ML or bus.
We don't know TJH's alignment but if TJH is town then he's in the best position to say where he thinks the suspicious votes are. That said I'm going to fill Grokken in red, given this and the d1 post on flipping MD to red. An additional issue is that if he believed that GE was mafia he would have engaged him more as a townie and tried to sort out the alignment. He was pretty quick to put down the vote irregardless of his read on Fidei.
Fidei gets his vote off early starting a second train on someone he finds suspicious, which is a sign of town. He does AFK the second half of the cycle, but for OGI reasons I know that is not alignment indicative.
n00bKing who hammered Sulfurus with scant time remaining is almost certainly town. Barring further evidence I will also colour him green.
I'm also going to colour MD in as green because although he's not fully out of the woods on behaviour alone, it is also highly improbable that if both he and Sulfurus were scum that Sulfurus would have said anything to expose himself. His strategy was breadcrumbed and had 6 votes on him prior to me starting the train which is more than enough for at least 1 scummer to hide. Additionally he's engaging the people that he's suspicious of through n2 so I'm going to say he's town.
Tictock is a bit of an enigma with the votes. He votes TJHuggins right at the daypost or soon after it. If TJH is town, this is somewhat problematic using the scum ML/bus decision tree and the predecessor vote. So we have to look at his voteswitches and potential motivations on them - more on that later. Neutral from the start for now.
SW votes GE and is the first hammer on GE. The solo vote on NHM was a problem, so we look at his read on GE. The timing is just after midway through d1, 23h left, so no issues here. The read on GE is alright though I had reservations on the top half of his long post. It would also make sense for him here to NOT vote TJH as he's townreading TJH - the read I felt at that time was wrong but did not in itself make him scummy. Additionally the effort is quite much for a newbie scum, so I am going to say a very tentative townlean. I very well could be wrong here but taking into account SW's responses on the solo voting, it could all just be newb play and not scum play.
WonnaPlay brings TJH up to four votes. This can be viewed as two ways - as mafia he makes it hard for town to get a decent lynch off, but the same can be said for SW at this point in time. So we have to look at his read basis and the timing. With about 13h left he joined NK in the pressure vote with the caveat he'd switch back to GE if nothing changed. He follows up on this 2h before EoD. Given his d1 into early d2 posting though, I'm seeing a devil-may-care attitude about getting his thoughts out there which indicates town. He's not terribly concerned about how he'll look and mentioned that he'd vote for pressure despite the TJH read not being top. Also as he scumreads Scott, he switches off the wagon that Scott joined. Most likely town, not the strongest read, but that's the overall picture I'm getting. Earnest newbie town.
Day 2 <40m to EoD
GhandiEAGLE(5): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay
TJHuggins(4): Noobking, MoosyDoosy, scott31337
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
scott31337 (1): Tictock
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
Here's where things start to get interesting. Tictock starts a wagon on Scott. The idea is a good one, but there's just one problem here - lack of followthrough. He cannot engage an AFK Scott, which is okay, but in his posting he should encourage votes on Scott further than the initial vote. He does switch his vote later on after the train fails to gain traction. It does raise the question though whether he tried to look towny after the fact but at the same time he did insist pressure voting Scott. It's a reasonable concept from a town standpoint.
Now WP switches his vote from TJH to GE, thus effectively hammering GE. I explained before that he qualified his vote and that GE was at the top of his list so this vote is in line with his reads. No problem here.
Day 2 Final
GhandiEAGLE(7): Grokken, Fidei86, Half the Sky, silentwarrior, WonnaPlay ,Tictock, Noobking,
TJHuggins(2): scott31337, MoosyDoosy
Grokken(1): GhandiEAGLE
Not Voting(1): TJHuggins
7-2-1 vote heavily indicates mislynch. So we can draw the conclusions that scum generally vote at the very beginning of the train or sometimes at the very end to hide their intentions. Tictock's vote here as he was late to the party (not his fault) is further compounded by his predecessor's suspcious AFK solo vote on Fidei who is almost certainly town and his scum reads aren't original on either of GE or TJH so exercising caution is the way to go in the event he's sheeping poor reads. If TJH is town, the voting further implicates Tictock. (Hence the name in italics.)
The hammer vote is problematic only if it is made too close to EoD. WP's vote was made approximately 2 hours prior to then and it made sense with what he was planning to do. WP placing his vote back on TJH would not only have not made sense but keeping the vote too close would have made scum want to manipulate the vote, though here they did not need to.
The following are implicated more heavily through VCA (from most to least) - Grokken, Tictock (if TJH is town), scott31337 (hammer vote on TJH prior to departure), silentwarrior (based on D1 vote).
Scott could be mafia but per vote analysis he is actually less likely to be mafia. The thing that irks me is that he AFKed his vote without explanation and he's had no prior read on TJHuggins. Given the number of people willing to vote TJH, this is reckless at best as a townie and horribly scummy at worst, given the timing it's not terribly obvious. One thing is pretty clear though, given where the votes were when Scott afked, it's a decent bet that TJH and Scott aren't on the same team.
WP's hammer was not made at a critical timing so if he should be for mafia, this wouldn't be it. Additionally at that time TJH could have been countervoted given the number of people willing to vote either, and the read was not incongruent with his prior stance.
TJH as he failed to vote, and was hampered due to RL, his no-vote in d2 is NAI but now he's in the best position to tell us who could be suspicious - if he's town.
Nightaction Recommendations
Detective: 1) Grokken, 2) SW, 3) Tictock, 4) TJHiggins
Caveat: I would NOT check Scott if you think there's a vig in this setup - he should be getting shot, so consider any of Grokken, Tictock, SW or if you are unsure of WP, then him, but I am thinking WP might be green here. A check on Scott should have been done d1 and if you haven't done it now you may want to exercise caution if the vig held his shot, which could happen in a newbie game.
Vigilante: Scott, Scott, Scott. Vig a scummy lurker who is least likely to help town (if he's town) By far, this person would be Scott. Shoot Scott. No, you should have done that yesterday
Medic: I would say any of the trio of Fidei, n00bking, or myself. Use your judgement.
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Comments/questions/competing thoughts....I'm ridiculously busy at work today, but will try and get to things either around lunch or sometime in the afternoon (EU time).
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When I can, I'll try and look through Grokken's filter to see if the progressions match the voting or if there's any other issues I might find. I haven't caught up since I AFKed....same goes for the others I may have reservations on.
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On July 16 2015 14:23 Half the Sky wrote:
Detective: 1) Grokken, 2) SW, 3) Tictock, 4) TJHiggins
Caveat: I would NOT check Scott if you think there's a vig in this setup - he should be getting shot, so consider any of Grokken, Tictock, SW or if you are unsure of WP, then him, but I am thinking WP might be green here. A check on Scott should have been done d1 and if you haven't done it now you may want to exercise caution if the vig held his shot, which could happen in a newbie game.
The bolded line is the only part of your wall of text I do not agree with, but only because it is not possible to have both Cop and Vig.
A) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
B) 1 Town Cop, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
C) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Doctor, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
D) 1 Town Vigilante, 1 Town Veteran, 8 Vanilla Townies, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Mafia Godfather, 1 Mafia Goon
Also I'm voting for HtS for Towny of the Game.
She is both the obvious Scum kill and the obvious Medic save.
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On July 16 2015 08:09 MoosyDoosy wrote:
The most interesting thing I came across was Grokken and silentwarrior. silentwarrior lists Grokken as town lean while Grokken is starting to look worse and worse. I hate making associative cases but if n00bKing would look into this it would be great because he's decent at sniffing these out.
I do not have an association case to make against a hypothetical Grokken/silentwarrior team. One of them has 1 post that makes it seem like the other could be a scum teammate, and the other has 2 posts that make it seem like the other could be a scum teammate. It is very flimsy, not as strong as the association case against TJHuggins/silentwarrior that I posted on Page 32. And the TJ Huggins/silentwarrior association case is still not the strongest one.
MoosyDoosy wrote:
I'm going to read into Ticktock and TJHuggins some more
This is the strongest one.
You'll note that the TJHuggins/silentwarrior team and the TJHuggins/Ticktock team have a common thread...
By the way, not only am I unable to make a good association case against Grokken/silentwarrior, but I cannot make a good association case against Grokken/ANYONE. If Grokken is scum, he has done an excellent job at avoiding clear ties with his scum teammate, and has really only tripped himself up one time the entire game. That would be an outstanding performance, for someone who claims that this is his first time ever playing Mafia-by-forum.
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On July 16 2015 14:49 n00bKing wrote:
You'll note that the TJHuggins/silentwarrior team and the TJHuggins/Ticktock team have a common thread...
You really think I replace in as scum, bus my remaining teammate most of D2 only to swap to the mislynch in the last 30 min, and then suggest a medic save on my scummate?
This makes me unable to trust any of your associations...
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Time to spam the thread, Baby! Y'all are gonna have some reading to do.
I'll start with:
REASONS TO THINK GROKKEN IS TOWN
1) As has been mentioned, one of Grokken's first posts involves him attacking Sulfurus for contentless posts. He labels Sulf as "maybe slight scum lean." This is not much by itself, but every little bit counts.
2) In that same post, he quickly identifies HtS, Fidei, and myself as townreads. These 3 players are now the Inner Circle of trusted townies.
3) Also in that same post, he suggests 3 people for the lynch, and Sulfurus is the first of those 3 names. If Grokken was scum, then if people later challenged him on why he wasn't voting against Sulfurus, he could always say "well, that wasn't an ordered list." But having the Godfather at the head of his suggested lynch targets is another small point in Grokken's favor.
4) One thing I hadn't liked about Grokken's Day 1 is that when thread sentiment turned against Moosy, Grokken flipped his read on Moosy from Green to Red. But upon re-reading, I can see that his Green read on Moosy wasn't just before thread sentiment turned against him, but ALSO was before the conversation between myself and Moosy that CAUSED thread sentiment to turn against him. If I don't clarify that what Moosy meant by "changing things up" was to vary his play, then that first comment might not have turned into anything. At the time Grokken was townreading Moosy, there wasn't really any reason not to (yet). Moosy didn't turn into garbage until after that.
5) During Night 2, Grokken tells us that Ghandi was his ONLY scum read during Day 2. That doesn't sound to me like anything a scum player would actually want to admit. WIFOM is in play here (he would say it BECAUSE it is nothing scum would ever say!) but again...it's his first Mafia-by-Forum game. I would expect his scum play to be a little more straightforward, rather than fancy. He doesn't want to "try something out" and later get pegged as the scapegoat for why his team lost.
6) Sulfurus really only made 1 post the entire game that represents him making an attempt to do anything worthwhile. In it, he says: "I noticed that HTS came to Grokk's defense against an accurate post on him even after calling Grokk out for blatantly reversing his read on Moosy just to fit thread sentiment. What's up with that?" That's it. That was his only post that actually had useful game content in it, and he is attacking HtS for defending Grokken, over behavior that Sulfurus indicates should indeed be seen as suspicious. HtS and Grokken are the only players Sulfurus actually attempted to push as lynch options. That looks quite good for Grokken, in my opinion.
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I would say Grokken is a poor target for the Cop, and even worse target for the Vigilante.
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I already provided an association case for TJHuggins and silentwarrior, in which I included some reasons to think silentwarrior could be scum.
But here are a few reasons to think silentwarrior is Town:
1) When he makes it to the thread, he just immediately falls in line with things others have said. But when scum sheep someone else's idea, I expect them to take what was said, and paraphrase. So that it at least sounds a little bit like an original thought. So it sounds a little bit like they are contributing something new. But some of silentwarrior's comments aren't paraphrasing. He's just repeating the same opinion, almost word for word. I would generally expect scum to be a little more careful than that.
2) His "EBWOP" list looks really solid to me, at this point. He was not interested in lynching anyone that wasn't worth considering. The only person I had any interest at all in lynching, that he didn't, was HIM.
3) His last post has this in it: "I still think scott and TJH are the scummiest right now, so if there are any BLUES, you should check them." What the hell is that? Looks to me like he forgot the setup rules. No mafia player could forget that there are Blues (or even forget which ones they are) and I don't know that a newbie scum player wants to draw attention to himself by pretending that he forgot the setup. ruXxar and Moosy couldn't remember anything about the setup during Newbie 11, but they were both town. I still just think newbie scum players are more likely to just try and look like they're playing as town, than start up goofy tricks and ruses.
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REASONS TO THINK TJHUGGINS IS SCUM
1) Falsely accuses Grokken of "Town-prodding" in an instance where Grokken was just asking one player a question.
2) This: + Show Spoiler +What I didn't like about TJ was that he made absolutely no effort whatsoever to read (or even interact with) the only person in the game that he knew before the game started. If I were Town, and was in a game with a bunch of strangers + ONE person I knew quite well, then without a doubt my early focus would be on interacting with that person, to try and get a read on them, because I know things about their personality and mannerisms that may not be known by anyone else on my team. TJ doesn't do this at all.
Conversely, if I were scum in that situation, I might make a point of avoiding that person, because they know things about MY personality and mannerisms that may not be known by anyone else in the Town. And I might steer clear of them (possibly without even realizing I'm doing it) to keep them from getting a read on me.
3) Early comments look mostly bad in hindsight. The first thing he wants to say is about HtS spamming. Then his first scumread is Grokken (who I think is unlikely to be Scum). Then his next scumread is Moosy (who I think is unlikely to be Scum). Then he accuses Fidei of saying something that "seems opposite to everything else he's written in this game." I didn't feel like it was opposite, and...Fidei is unlikely to be Scum.
4) As mentioned earlier, he oddly places Sulfurus at #2 on his suspect list, without having made mention of him previously. But makes no actual attempt to get Sulfurus lynched.
5) Says he intends to give the Town "essential information" later in Day 2, but fails to follow through.
6) During Night 2, says he will post the essential information during Day 3 instead, pre-assuming that he will survive the Night Phase, even though he has soft-claimed (or maybe more like medium-claimed) a blue role.
7) After the slip from #6 is pointed out, he explains that he doesn't expect to be night-killed by the mafia because some players are saying that they are suspicious of him. But if he's Town, then he doesn't know that the players most suspicious of him aren't themselves Mafia, in which case they cannot have any reasonable expectation of getting him lynched. Moreover, Night 2 was NOT the first time that he indicated he thinks of himself as being immune to being night-killed by the mafia. In his final post of Day 1, he talks at length about what his plan of action will be for Day 2. Again pre-assuming that he will survive the Night Phase, even though at THIS time, he was NOT being talked about as a suspicious player. If we later get confirmation that the setup has a Cop and no Vigilante, it will make TJ look all the worse. Because then his confidence stems not only from knowing that he won't be killed by mafia (since he's on the team) but also knowing that he won't be killed by the Vigilante (because he knows there isn't one).
8) Flips out when Moosy's vote on himself doesn't count, causing the Godfather to be lynched. When natural townie reaction would more likely be a simple desire to celebrate the positive result.
9) Also complains that the non-voters only received warnings instead of mod-kills, when the majority of the non-voters (if not all of them) are obviously going to be town players. Remember that the 4 players who didn't vote were: Moosy, scott, Ghandi, and WonnaPlay. If TJ is teamed with silentwarrior, then ALL of the non-voters are Town. If TJ is teamed with NHM/Ticktock, ALL of the non-voters are STILL Town.
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REASONS TO THINK NYDUSHERMAIN/TICKTOCK IS SCUM
1) Nydus kicks off the game voting against Fidei, who was basically the only player to have made any attempt to do anything even remotely productive. We also know that Fidei ended up in the Inner Circle of trusted townies.
2) Nydus makes no more effort to interact with TJ than TJ made to interact with Nydus. This is suspicious for exactly the same reason. It was just MORE suspicious on TJ's part, because he was posting more.
3) Ticktock probably has the most posts of any player, that are not game-related. Rarely does he make a forcible attempt to derail discussion, but he repeatedly creates OPPORTUNITIES for discussion to be derailed.
4) Suggests Moosy as a cop check during Night 1, to keep the Cop away from his team. Says zippo about what the Vigilante should do, since he may know that there isn't a Vigilante to keep away from his team.
5) Says this about Ghandi, during Day 2: "saying that Grok is the scummiest player atm and that he has no other scum reads right now just continues to scream mafia to me." Again, I think a player saying that he has no other scum reads is Town-indicative. The town player may indeed have only one scum read. The scum player can scum read whoever he needs to, if it'll help him avoid the noose.
6) Lectures Ghandi after his lynch, creating excuses for why it was okay to have voted him out, instead of turning his attention toward helping the blue roles find the players who actually ARE scum.
7) Ticktock's reactions to Moosy's "ninja vote" are LUDICROUS. The fact that Moosy didn't actually ninja vote is irrelevant. What matters is that Ticktock goes berserk, and accuses Moosy of "setting up a last minute vote switch to GE" when Moosy's vote change (if it had happened) would have been completely meaningless to the lynch. Instead of Ghandi having 6 votes and TJ having 3, Ghandi would have 7 and TJ would have 2. Who cares? This is an absurd thing to try and scumread someone for.
8) Suggests TJ as a target for the Doctor on Night 2, which is scummy for multiple reasons, including (as Grokken pointed out) that Ticktock had been scumreading TJ pretty HARD during Night 1.
9) Suggests Grokken for a cop check on Night 2, despite the fact that (as Grokken also pointed out) Ticktock had been townreading Grokken for pretty much the whole way, up until then.
10) Says he won't be upset if the Vigilante shoots him tonight, which is cute if he knows there isn't one.
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REASONS TO THINK TJHUGGINS AND TICKTOCK ARE BOTH SCUM
1) In TJ's last post from Day 1, he says "I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active." And boy does this make sense, if his teammates were Sulfurus and NydusHerMain, who were both lurking something fierce throughout Day 1. This could also be a subliminal attempt to keep people from lynching Sulfurus. If TJ tells people that the lurkers are bad targets for the Cop, and bad targets for the Vigilante, then...shouldn't they be poor choices for the lynch, too?
2) If NydusHerMain was the 3rd member of that scum team, then it can help explain why Sulfurus was not better defended from the noose. One of his teammates was legitimately afk and needed to be replaced.
So then, during Night 1, this theory runs into a problem. Which is that after Ticktock comes into the game, he puts TJ "on blast" for the rest of the Night Phase. He makes two separate posts during the Night Phase that attack TJ for his scummy behavior. And this really does call a TJ/Ticktock team into question. But while I have kept saying that I would expect newbie scum players to keep things relatively simple, and not get fancy, Ticktock is not on the newbie list. And if Sulfurus/TJ/NHM was the team, then Ticktock has real motivation to get fancy. The Godfather was lynched on Day 1. Unorthodox maneuvers may be called for. I'll see if the other indications of a TJ/Ticktock team are stronger than the fact that Ticktock is all over TJ during Night 1.
3) Ticktock does not actually attack TJ until after I've strongly recommended TJ for a cop check. Since I was almost universally townread during Night 1, there is some chance that a Cop might actually go ahead and choose TJ as a target. If that happens, Ticktock is set up about as well as anyone can be, that is staring down a 9-1 deficit. It would be a LONG time before the townies seriously considered putting the noose on Ticktock. He's in a huge hole, but he has quite a bit of town cred from that read.
4) Although Ticktock is scumreading TJ during Night 1, he still ultimately suggests a cop check on Moosy, and not on TJ. This suggestion is made with adequate time for the Cop to go and change his action, if he is so inclined after seeing Ticktock's post.
5) With me going into so much detail about what I'd like the Cop to do, the scum team may have decided I was unlikely to BE the cop. The other player (besides Ticktock and myself) that was seriously scumreading TJ during Night 1 was Half the Sky. If the scum team ruled me out as a potential Cop, then the player who looks most likely (if they are the Cop) to target TJ during Night 1 is...Half the Sky. And what happened? She got roleblocked.
6) But the scum team still wouldn't be sure that there hadn't been a Cop check on TJ. So Ticktock makes himself the very first player to cast a vote on Day 2, and puts it on TJ. If someone is about to come forward and say "I'm the Cop, and I've got a red check on TJ" then Ticktock is already ahead of the curve.
7) But the Cop claim doesn't seem to be forthcoming. So now that it's the Day Phase (and there's actual lynching to be done), Ticktock becomes less and less interested in pursuing any sort of a case against TJ. His very next post after the vote against TJ is an attack on Ghandi.
8) After Ghandi responds, Ticktock goes so far as to tell Ghandi "You're scum." Flat out. He may not have any intention of allowing TJ to be lynched during this Phase, now that it seems clear there wasn't a red check on TJ.
9) As the day proceeds, it continues to become more and more obvious (from reading his filter) that TJ is not the lynch Ticktock wants, despite his vote being there. Ghandi is the lynch he wants. But he does mention that he is "fairly certain" TJ and Ghandi are the scum team. This could be so that once Ghandi flips town, Ticktock can say that his association case against TJ has fallen apart, and stop pursuing him. (And indeed, Ticktock has called for the Doctor to target TJ on Night 2!)
10) Ticktock says he is tempted to swing the hammer onto Ghandi, but doesn't do it. He does, however, finally move his vote off of TJ (and onto Scott), creating a tie, and giving someone else the opportunity to swing that hammer. After WonnaPlay does just that, Ticktock is now free to move his vote onto Ghandi, without having to take responsibility for being "the guy who killed Ghandi" once Ghandi flips Town. So...he does.
11) Ticktock's suggestions for Night actions involve the Cop checking either Grokken or Scott, and the Doctor possibly visiting TJ. Scumread on TJ? Forgotten. Townread on Grokken? Forgotten. Townlean on Scott? (Yes, this happened.) Forgotten.
If TJ/Ticktock is the team, I can't really tell whether Ticktock ever actually planned to bus TJ. It looks more to me like he just took serious steps to make sure that IF TJHuggins went down on Day 2, he would come out of it smelling like a rose. His shift in what he posts might represent a legitimate shift in thought patterns. "I have to be ready and willing to bus TJ, if it looks like he might get caught." Followed by "Nope, on second thought, I can't afford to lose him. I'll never make it all the way by myself, so I might as well hitch myself to him and go all-in."
The biggest obstacle in the Ticktock/TJ association case is larger than the biggest obstacle in the silentwarrior/TJ association case. But the ties are definitely stronger in the first one than the second one, too. Any of these 3 players are good targets for the Cop/Vigilante. And I'll reiterate that I absolutely can't say the same thing about Grokken.
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Jesus H Chris n00b, you've really written out the *bible*! Remind me to never roll scum when you're in the game!
I'm really sorry about yesterday all, I sort of burned out on the game a little bit after I made the Ghandi post and everyone just went along with it. I thought it was all in the bag ... Clearly not. I'm going to start psyching myself up over the next couple of hours, then attack the game at lunch/this evening.
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Well apparently Half the Sky has exactly the same line of thinking as me. You literally just listed the four people that I thought were most suspicious. Gonna read through your posts n00b.
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Just an FYI, VCAs are pretty strong but they are just one set of data points. I probably wouldn't have suspected Tictock prior to the VCA.
At some point I'll weigh in on n00b's posts.
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Le Sigh...
Looks like I'll be doing a fair bit of defending D3 here, assuming of course that a Vigi who held there shot doesn't decide to shoot me off that wall of text. That would be the quick and dirty way to prove my innocence here...
@n00b
While some of your points are valid, I find a lot of them to be deeply imbedded in WIFOM. Overall I like the effort you are making, but I'm wondering if your a tad tunneled in your thinking.
I assume if I flip green you just swap to pushing TJ/SW as the scum team. What happens if you find that TJ flips green? Just humor that world, if even for a moment.
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I'll likely be getting back to n00bs posts in depth after work, and I still need to look at SW in more depth.
However for now I just want to make 2 points.
1) I still think HtS has the best list post for suggestions for Night Actions. If you trust nobody else, please trust her.
Nightaction RecommendationsDetective: 1) Grokken, 2) SW, 3) Tictock, 4) TJHiggins Caveat: I would NOT check Scott if you think there's a vig in this setup - he should be getting shot, so consider any of Grokken, Tictock, SW or if you are unsure of WP, then him, but I am thinking WP might be green here. A check on Scott should have been done d1 and if you haven't done it now you may want to exercise caution if the vig held his shot, which could happen in a newbie game. Vigilante: Scott, Scott, Scott. Vig a scummy lurker who is least likely to help town (if he's town) By far, this person would be Scott. Shoot Scott. No, you should have done that yesterday Medic: I would say any of the trio of Fidei, n00bking, or myself. Use your judgement.
I threw out some thoughts that I found interesting, but that I honestly don't care to explain right now. Deal with it.
2) In general defense of myself, I'd just like to point to my last game where I pulled off a win for the Mafia team.
Holy Guardians
Here I played as Mafia and managed to pull out the win by making myself look as towny as I could. We won that game through incedible towncred and pushing the idea that remaining 2 players in question were in fact the scumteam.
Yet here I am being accused of replacing into a game, into a slot that was largely afk and was suspected by all people, and then acting in all sorts of manners that make me look like scum. Then I'm being scum read for that.
Why would I as Scum bus my remaining scummate right off the bat? Why would I risk that move by moving my vote around so much EoD, and then nudging back my scum read on TJ? Like it's obvious that TJ is still one of the scummier players right now, so isn't my receding my read and even risking saying he might be a good medic save suicide as scum?
Unless you think I planned out my play for the entirety of the past cycle just to make this argument, I don't see how my actions this game can possible make sense from a scum perspective.
Just my 2 cents.
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Be sure to send all actions to all hosts as I may not be around for flip and if I am not and you dont get your actions to all hosts your action may not be counted
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Ok, so as I say before, I still think that TJHuggins and Scott are the most scummiest right now, and that Blue should act on them. I will give answers about what everyone has said about me d1.
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Actually, SW you should tell us why you think TJ is scum.
A quick browse of your one page filter shows me that this is your initial read on TJ
On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote:
I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me.
Then on D2 when TJ is being pushed by most of the thread you post this.
On July 15 2015 04:35 silentwarrior wrote:
Scumlean:
scott31337
TJHuggins
Probably scum:
GhandiEAGLE
You never mentioned TJ in between those 2 posts. What changed your read?
I also noted that your Day 1 Vote was super weak. You afk voted on NHM based on your entrance posts...
On July 12 2015 08:23 silentwarrior wrote:
Hey guys, sorry for being late. So I just read trough the thread and here are some of my thoughts now. First, fidei seems like a town read to me right now. He seems to genuienly want to create an enviroment that is good for town. His first post makes this obvious. Have to disagree on his stance however. Imo, most games suffer from people not saying enough than the opposite.
My background is pretty newbie. Have been in a few forum mafia games, but mostly i play IRL.
On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote:
Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns.
I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia.
Which looks really bad. You basically took one look at the game, made your vote then never reevaluated. You even setup your vote by opening with a weak townread on Fidei then attack someone attacking your townread, but you never pushed the idea or anything. In fact you just afk'd the rest of the day.
I'd like to hear some more detail about your read flip on TJ please.
Also interested if your neutral read on WP has changed at all.
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Okay, I am about and I'm going to go back to the start of the game and see if I can't solve this thing. If you have any specific questions for me, post them now and I'll get to them, I promise.
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On July 17 2015 03:40 Fidei86 wrote:
Okay, I am about and I'm going to go back to the start of the game and see if I can't solve this thing. If you have any specific questions for me, post them now and I'll get to them, I promise.
Curious to hear your opinions on:
Grokken, Tictock, Silentwarrior, TJHuggins and a world in which WonnaPlay could be scum.
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Got it.
BTW, my tinfoil hat world involves you and n00b being the scum team. But honestly, I think if that's the case then we could just GG now :-)
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On July 16 2015 22:45 Tictock wrote:
Looks like I'll be doing a fair bit of defending D3 here, assuming of course that a Vigi who held there shot doesn't decide to shoot me off that wall of text.
Of the three of you that I mentioned (yourself/silentwarrior/TJ) I would say you're a better Cop check than Vig shot (as you might be the most useful of the three, should you be Town).
On July 16 2015 22:45 Tictock wrote:I assume if I flip green you just swap to pushing TJ/SW as the scum team.
Which is why I wouldn't want to start with you. I would start with TJ, since he is the common thread for both teams.
On July 16 2015 22:45 Tictock wrote:What happens if you find that TJ flips green? Just humor that world, if even for a moment.
Then it's "back to the drawing board." Same as what I said in Newbie 11, regarding Sulfurus. I told everyone that if Sulfurus flipped Green, then I had to start over. (Fortunately, he flipped Red in that game, no problem.) If TJ flips Green in this game, I have to start over. Hopefully that would not be the case. But if it were, it still isn't the end of the world. Nailing the Godfather on Day 1 gave us quite a bit of room for mislynches, since we know the Mafia doesn't have access to any additional KP.
Is it within the realm of *possibility* that TJ is Town, even though he is the common thread for both of my scum teams? Sure. But he was my top scum read on Day 2 (though I certainly understand why people settled on Ghandi instead), and he's still my top scum read on Night 2.
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On July 17 2015 03:51 Fidei86 wrote:
Got it.
BTW, my tinfoil hat world involves you and n00b being the scum team. But honestly, I think if that's the case then we could just GG now :-)
Was actually thinking the same. If sulfur us was bussed then it was probably done by hts and either you or noob. But want to wait out night until I start to consider it srs. On phone now Btw, so can't write to everything about me. Will do during day.
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On July 16 2015 23:49 Tictock wrote:1) I still think HtS has the best list post for suggestions for Night Actions. If you trust nobody else, please trust her. Show nested quote +Nightaction RecommendationsDetective: 1) Grokken, 2) SW, 3) Tictock, 4) TJHiggins Caveat: I would NOT check Scott if you think there's a vig in this setup - he should be getting shot, so consider any of Grokken, Tictock, SW or if you are unsure of WP, then him, but I am thinking WP might be green here. A check on Scott should have been done d1 and if you haven't done it now you may want to exercise caution if the vig held his shot, which could happen in a newbie game. Vigilante: Scott, Scott, Scott. Vig a scummy lurker who is least likely to help town (if he's town) By far, this person would be Scott. Shoot Scott. No, you should have done that yesterday Medic: I would say any of the trio of Fidei, n00bking, or myself. Use your judgement.
Then it's worth noting that HtS and I have a lot of the same suggestions. Her list of options for the Doctor matches mine exactly.
She suggests 4 targets for the Cop, and 3 of those 4 are the same ones I suggested. She and I have crossover on silentwarrior, Ticktock, and TJ.
We don't have the same ideas for the Vigilante, but it looks somewhat likely that there isn't one.
On July 16 2015 23:49 Tictock wrote:Why would I as Scum bus my remaining scummate right off the bat? Why would I risk that move by moving my vote around so much EoD, and then nudging back my scum read on TJ? Like it's obvious that TJ is still one of the scummier players right now, so isn't my receding my read and even risking saying he might be a good medic save suicide as scum?
Isn't it suicide as Town? If you're Town, you're making risky plays to try and protect a player whose allegiance you don't know. If you and TJ are scum, then your risky plays are at least intended to protect a player that you know is on your team.
On July 16 2015 23:49 Tictock wrote:Unless you think I planned out my play for the entirety of the past cycle just to make this argument, I don't see how my actions this game can possible make sense from a scum perspective.
Try to make sense of your actions from a Town perspective. Because I have a Town perspective, and your actions don't make sense. Explain your reaction to Moosy's ninja vote. Explain why you came full circle on TJ, and suggested him as a target for the Doctor. Explain why you came full circle on Grokken, after townreading him for so long.
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On July 17 2015 04:08 n00bKing wrote:
Try to make sense of your actions from a Town perspective. Because I have a Town perspective, and your actions don't make sense. Explain your reaction to Moosy's ninja vote. Explain why you came full circle on TJ, and suggested him as a target for the Doctor. Explain why you came full circle on Grokken, after townreading him for so long.
I only have a few min but I'll try and explain a little.
If Moosy had in fact Ninja voted like that I would think it very suspect, but most of my reaction was due to the fact that he hadn't actually voted in the voteing thread. I even noted that in one of my posts before Onegu sorted it. That reminded me of a scum strat Onegu himself had suggested to me in my last game with him. So I freaked out a little.
In fact the way that I freaked out reminded me about TJ freaking out. To be honest I'm not even that sold on the case we have on him, but that's because of some WIFOM thoughts of my own.
My read on Grok was never as solid as everyone seems to assume. I believe it was points 1 & 3 in your post about him n00b that I had pointed out before, that was my only reason for having a town lean on him. Reading his filter I felt like that was no longer enough and he dropped to a neutral read, which at the time was what I had on SW as well.
Based on my last post on SW I would actually probably shoot him just as easily as I would Scott if I were Vigi.
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On July 17 2015 04:38 Tictock wrote:
If Moosy had in fact Ninja voted like that I would think it very suspect, but most of my reaction was due to the fact that he hadn't actually voted in the voteing thread. I even noted that in one of my posts before Onegu sorted it. That reminded me of a scum strat Onegu himself had suggested to me in my last game with him. So I freaked out a little.
I'm not sure of what you are saying here. If he didn't vote in the voting thread, then how did he vote at all? Votes don't count unless they appear in the voting thread, right? Are you saying that a player could like...submit a vote to the Mod via PM, without posting it in the voting thread, and still have it count? Because I didn't think something like that was possible (But I'm a n00b and this is only my 2nd game here, so I'm not sure.)
If something like that IS possible, and you thought that's what happened (because Moosy's vote showed up in Onegu's vote count, but it wasn't in the voting thread) then your reaction will make more sense, even though Moosy's vote did not impact the lynch. Because you wouldn't have been able to know that he hadn't submitted it earlier, when he thought it WOULD impact the lynch.
Like, honestly, if players can submit votes directly to the Mods via PM, without using the voting thread, my suspicion of you will go down dramatically.
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Pretty sure that isn't a thing, n00b. Page 23 now. TJH and Wonna looking god awful so far ... let's see if they can pull it back!
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On July 16 2015 08:11 TJHuggins wrote:
I reviewed the past few days last night but didn't have time to make a big post. I was going to make one today before the day ended but got home late.
I would have voted for Grokken. I think Ghandi was a mistake.
On page 30 now, but just want to flag up this post, which came AFTER Ghandi flipped town.
This post might win the "no shit Sherlock" award of 2015.
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On July 16 2015 08:34 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 16 2015 08:16 TJHuggins wrote:
Tomorrow. If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect. TJ might be a good person for Medic to visit tonight... Just sayin.
And this from TT will win the "Derp" award.
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Hmm bah, I think it sucks that GE wasn't scum, since he made himself look awfully like it. Even when I look back at all his posts, it is hard to think differently. After rereading his posts I wonder what his read on Grokken was.
When I think about the fact that we had 6 votes on GE, I'm automatically thinking that atleast 1, maybe even both scum are within these 6. This makes it difficult for me, because my whole top 3, consisting of GE, scott and TJH were not in this. That would make me, Grokken, SW,Tick/NHM the most likely scum, since I still can’t see how Hts or fidei can be scum. I know I’m not scum, so that leaves me Grokken /SW and Tick.
Out of these 3, I think that the most likely scum is Grokken.
When I look at Grokken's filter, he repeated alot of other players instead of coming on conclusions for himself. He voted very early and left it there, probably because GE was making himself even worse at the time.
However, ever since this post from GE, Grokken went totally on a kind of defensive mode :
On July 16 2015 04:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
If he started the argument I wouldn't really bother about it, and if he waited until Fidei himself had decided that I was guilty enough to vote, I wouldn't have noticed it either. What he did to me was see an opening and be proactive about it to protect himself and his filter. He looked like someone who was just waiting for someone to hop off of his Scumbuddy TJ's bandwagon. .
Ofcourse he had to defend himself, given the fact that townie GE died and suspected him, but he hasn't brought anything new either and just only said some words to defend himself.
SW never really said that much, except for one big post on his reasons for GE, which I think wasn’t particularly bad, but as we now know GE was town. His list is basically a summary of what was happening in the game, which could read easily into scum I guess..
As for Tick, I’m not sure what to make of him. Trying the bandwagon on Scott was not a bad idea, and he generally doesn’t come off as that scummy. I’m also wondering what he suddenly sees in TJH, after him saying he has a “big post” coming.. Maybe n00bking is right about his theory about tick/tjh, but it makes it look too easy imo. I don’t think Tick would openly defend another scum while being scum whilst he wasn’t being attacked that greatly.
I still feel like Scott is scum. I feel that he’s here mocking us, I have the feeling that he is watching the whole game, but is just refusing to post,to toy with us.
When he finally posts, he just posts
On July 16 2015 00:25 scott31337 wrote:
I've been really busy as well, but I can't forget to vote this time...We don't need any modkilled townies.
##Vote Tjhuggins
At this time it's 4 for GE and 4 for TJH, he votes TJH without any explanation as to what.
If TJH is scum, then it makes Scott very less likely scum. Since if he’s really afk, then he wouldn’t dare give the TJH the 5th vote as the only other scum.
However if TJH isn’t scum then Scott wouldn’t care who gets lynched between GE and TJH. This would make both “options” we had today not scum and makes it so that we were all voting on townies while the scum was laughing. In this case, it wouldn’t be unpossible that Grokken/SW and Scott are the 2 remaining scum and Scott would vote for the other option (since Grokken/SW already voted for GE, Scott chooses the other). This would make a gap between them for tomorrow and gives one of these 2 an optional attack on either TJH or GE (depending on which got killed during the day) and an pretty easy extra town lynch. This is only if TJH isn’t scum, but maybe I’m overthinking this..
I guess I have to wait on what TJH has to say for himself, but so far it doesn’t look good. However, I think that if TJH isn’t scum, then I think Scott and Grokken are both scum.
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Ugh, sorry for that. I had this typed out in word with normal paragraphs and just copy pasted it here. Got a bit messy
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About the hammering thing, I didn't realize I 'hammered' (had to look it up). I simply told that I would vote temporarily for TJHuggins to pressure him into talking. When I went to bed, I skimmed through the thread, saw that GE only made it worse for him somehow and that TJH had said absolutely nothing and changed my vote to GE as I had told so. I wasn't aware I started an automatic chain reaction.
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So having some free time finally - I did some filter diving -
HtS is top town and nuff said, even her play is there, not going to bother
Fidei looks good too
N00bkingas well.
Grokken looks a bit better from his explanations- and how he didn't just try to scumread me for my activity and actually looked into explanations - and his wording seems natural to me. He's a townlean for now.
WonnaPlay would be the opposite, with top scumming me.
"1] Scott - Gets defended by some people, without him having done anything. I think one of the people talking for him is atleast scum, defending scum. It would also explain the post Sulfurus made about "unvalid vote" and would even explain the night kill on Kelsier (if what you guys saying is true about veterans killing Kelsier).
He isn't even AFK, but because he's afraid from HtS and therefore he is lurking, which raises alarmbells all over the place for me..
2] Ghandi - too sketchy for my taste. The reason I don't have Ghandi on my #1 is that his list looks pretty decent. I'd agree on most points with him there, but who knows if he turns around again after that.. Also his conclusion on Scott being town is totally unwarranted. If Scott turns out to be scum, then Ghandi is one aswell.
3] TJH - made some weird posts during the end of the day regarding the votes, but I could see him being legitimately frustrated about his idea of different rules. I do think that HtS made some solid points, which I can't ignore since she was spot on in the last day. He's also very quiet since that day..
"
Well we know Ghandi is town now, as well.
silentwarrior - He seems to believe in his case, and has some decent points - it could be a mafia case trying to get a mislynch, but I just don't feel that (although he was incorrect) - His posts seem okay for now - he's a null/light town read.
Tictock - his last game made me pretty paranoid. He did a quick vote for Wonna (which I don't care for) but there isn't much else that sticks out at me about him. No tunnels either. Null/scumlean
Moosy - so he was the other wagon on D1 - There could be that 1% chance that both wagons were scum, but I'm pretty doubtful - so thats something there. He's got some good thoughts in here - and I believe his anger with the d2 vote wasn't "ninja voted" - townlean
TJH - Not much here to go on - but one of his latest posts -
On July 16 2015 08:11 TJHuggins wrote:
I reviewed the past few days last night but didn't have time to make a big post. I was going to make one today before the day ended but got home late.
I would have voted for Grokken. I think Ghandi was a mistake.
Is pretty bad in my opinion - the votes were pretty interesting at the end - unsure what in his reads have changed either. Null
## Sulfurus / WonnaPlay / Tictock for gamecreds
I'll be around for about 2-3 hours (finally!) so if you have any questions or things you'd like me to check, please let me know - but it's going to pretty bad (Multiple job interviews, friend broke his ankle, and help another friend buy/move/fix a car - all things I did not plan - have been affecting my time here - I apologize)
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Okay, people, I slogged my way through the thread.
My first thought is that it is staggering how much of it is taken up by HTS and n00b. For reasons that have been set out at length, I'm convinced HTS is town, and I agree with HTS that the Sulfurus wagon was as pure as snow. I point this out only because if both of them are still alive at LYLO, I think people should (1) try and get their autographs/shake their hands and congratulate them on one hell of a game, and (2) lynch the living shit out of them. Until we get there, however, we should leave it. They are both clearly extremely strong analysts and if they are not mafia, mafia simply cannot afford to leave them alive through the mid-game. The only thing dissuading them is probably the threat of a medic check (which leads me to think that I'm likely the NK tonight. I hope not though.)
I've written notes on everyone, but honestly I think the scum team is somewhere in Scott, TickTock, TJH and WonnaPlay.
Starting with Scott - the argument is pretty simple. He has mostly AFK'd through the game and he has contributed literally nothing. Ticktock tried to compliment him on the weird copy-paste / colour thing he did, but I just read that as being extremely half-assed.
TickTock has said a bunch of weird things. Top amongst those is wanting to get a medic save on his most scum read player. I'm also still upset that he said that my vote on Sulfurus was somehow ninja, when I telegraphed it a mile in advance. Finally, his voting on Scott then coming off was just bizarre. I don't see a reason to move off a scum read and onto someone you'd been town reading at certain points, just to "make things interesting".
The TJH lynch has been explained at length, and it's almost certainly the correct one. I stopped recording points on him when I got to #7. Also, whereas Ghandi was still trying to solve the game all of D2, TJH did nothing constructive at all.
WonnaPlay is a bit more out of left field, as nobody is scum reading him at the moment. But I think he has been very scummy, for the following reasons:
1. His first list post was just god awful. I've learned a lot about newbie mafia recently from playing a text game with my real life buddies, and one of the classic newbie mafia tells is a list that actually says nothing. LINK. Look in particular at how none of his thoughts actually result in reads, and most end up at a neutral conclusion. The thread was just starting to pick up at that stage, and he may have just felt like he needed to post something.
2. He come back in after the D1 vote and said he would have gone for his top scum read, KSC D1. Fair enough. However, when it comes towards the end of the day, the two wagons were MD and Sulfurus. If I'm town and I've got a choice between a null read and my number two scum read, I'm hammering my scum read every single time, and I'm definitely not just wasting my vote on a third party.
3. He votes on TJH, despite there being rumbles of voting on both of his top scum reads, GE and Scott. And this was when the vote was getting somewhat close.
His last post is a little better (in that it actually seems to be an attempt at reasoning). And while I was writing this, I did come across some things that I initially thought were slips, but actually made sense from a town perspective. Still, of the Grokken/Silent/Wonna triumvirate of "meh", he's the worst. The other two just sound very town-y to me.
Having finished that exercise, I'm not really sure it was worth it. I don't think there's any way that the TJH wagon comes off the rails tomorrow, and I think that is definitely the right move.
I'm going to head home now (I stayed in the office to do this work), but I may not make it home before the Day post. If I day, GGWP all, and say something nice about me at my funeral/NK WIFOM debate.
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In reading my post before I sign off, just want to clarify that I don't think the TJH wagon is coming off the rails, and I don't think that it should. I think that he's scum and that we should lynch him 100%.
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Finally on WonnaPlay (WIFOM alert) KSC was the only one scum reading him.
Yeah okay, so it's a crappy reason, but nobody else has said it yet.
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On July 17 2015 06:39 Fidei86 wrote:
Finally on WonnaPlay (WIFOM alert) KSC was the only one scum reading him.
Yeah okay, so it's a crappy reason, but nobody else has said it yet.
Definitely a WIFOM alert. I also noticed that if the scum team is TJ/SW or TJ/Ticktock, then they could have killed Kelsier to try and frame WonnaPlay or Grokken, since those were his initial scumreads. But...meh. Didn't sound very compelling. Until I have reason to doubt it, I'll just assume that they killed Kelsier because he was one of the 4 who lynched the Godfather, was one of the two veterans from that group of 4, and was one of the two players from that group of 4 who was unlikely to be protected by the Doctor.
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Agree that is by far the most likely explanation.
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On July 17 2015 06:17 scott31337 wrote:
So having some free time finally - I did some filter diving -
WonnaPlay would be the opposite, with top scumming me.
"1] Scott - Gets defended by some people, without him having done anything. I think one of the people talking for him is atleast scum, defending scum. It would also explain the post Sulfurus made about "unvalid vote" and would even explain the night kill on Kelsier (if what you guys saying is true about veterans killing Kelsier).
He isn't even AFK, but because he's afraid from HtS and therefore he is lurking, which raises alarmbells all over the place for me..
2] Ghandi - too sketchy for my taste. The reason I don't have Ghandi on my #1 is that his list looks pretty decent. I'd agree on most points with him there, but who knows if he turns around again after that.. Also his conclusion on Scott being town is totally unwarranted. If Scott turns out to be scum, then Ghandi is one aswell.
3] TJH - made some weird posts during the end of the day regarding the votes, but I could see him being legitimately frustrated about his idea of different rules. I do think that HtS made some solid points, which I can't ignore since she was spot on in the last day. He's also very quiet since that day..
"
Well we know Ghandi is town now, as well.
That is an one-way if. That GE was town doesn't mean that you are.
silentwarrior - He seems to believe in his case, and has some decent points - it could be a mafia case trying to get a mislynch, but I just don't feel that (although he was incorrect) - His posts seem okay for now - he's a null/light town read.
He has some decent points? You mean this point?
On July 17 2015 02:13 silentwarrior wrote:
Ok, so as I say before, I still think that TJHuggins and Scott are the most scummiest right now, and that Blue should act on them. I will give answers about what everyone has said about me d1.
So you're agreeing that you're scum and that you should be shot this night?
Tictock - his last game made me pretty paranoid. He did a quick vote for Wonna (which I don't care for) but there isn't much else that sticks out at me about him. No tunnels either. Null/scumlean
You talk about his last game and about a vote,which happened before the game started? You basically say nothing.
Moosy - so he was the other wagon on D1 - There could be that 1% chance that both wagons were scum, but I'm pretty doubtful - so thats something there. He's got some good thoughts in here - and I believe his anger with the d2 vote wasn't "ninja voted" - townlean
His anger wasn't ninja-voted? What do you mean?
He never ninja-voted, it was a mistake. Excuse me if it's my English breaking down, I just have no clue what you mean.
TJH - Not much here to go on - but one of his latest posts - Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 08:11 TJHuggins wrote:
I reviewed the past few days last night but didn't have time to make a big post. I was going to make one today before the day ended but got home late.
I would have voted for Grokken. I think Ghandi was a mistake. Is pretty bad in my opinion - the votes were pretty interesting at the end - unsure what in his reads have changed either. Null
So you have no opinion about any of his earlier posts? You're also unsure what in his reads have changed.. I'll tell you; he's been pretty much afk since end of day 1, so yeah, that changed.
## Sulfurus / WonnaPlay / Tictock for gamecreds
I'll be around for about 2-3 hours (finally!) so if you have any questions or things you'd like me to check, please let me know - but it's going to pretty bad (Multiple job interviews, friend broke his ankle, and help another friend buy/move/fix a car - all things I did not plan - have been affecting my time here - I apologize)
I'm attacking you, so it's understandable you'd try and attack me back. You read TickTock from a previous and pregame as Scum and you read me as scum because I'm scumming you?
I feel bad for your personal stuff and hope you land a job, but it's not only that you're away that I think you're scum. I just wanted you to speak up and see for myself if you're scum or not. That's the reason I didn't join TickTock's wagon to vote for you. However, due to your reasoning and conclusion now, I'm pretty sure that you're scum and that I may just die now..
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Wait Scott made an actual post? Ugh. So much for my reading comprehension. Let me see if I can find it.
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Disappointed to discover that Scott's one post has all the same reads I do. Not sure what to make of that really.
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His list posts are generally terrible as both alignments.
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And Fidei, I think you made some really good points on WP I didn't even realise the issues with his hypothetical post, going to try and sort through those if I'm still alive d3...
*looks at Fidei innocently*
Well I hope you aren't mafia Fidei...
/tinfoil
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After seeing these posts from WP and Scott, I guess I would say that Scott comes away looking a little better to me, and WonnaPlay comes away looking a little worse. Not sure if WonnaPlay looks worse than SilentWarrior yet. Scott still doesn't look as good as Grokken.
If I get killed, don't forget to lynch TJ.
Strong Townreads: Fidei, Half the Sky
Medium Townreads: Grokken, Moosy
Light Townread: Scott
Light Scumreads: SilentWarrior, WonnaPlay
Medium Scumread: Ticktock
Strong Scumread: TJHuggins
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On July 17 2015 06:18 Fidei86 wrote:WonnaPlay is a bit more out of left field, as nobody is scum reading him at the moment. But I think he has been very scummy, for the following reasons: 1. His first list post was just god awful. I've learned a lot about newbie mafia recently from playing a text game with my real life buddies, and one of the classic newbie mafia tells is a list that actually says nothing. LINK. Look in particular at how none of his thoughts actually result in reads, and most end up at a neutral conclusion. The thread was just starting to pick up at that stage, and he may have just felt like he needed to post something.
You're completely right, I had the feeling that I needed to post something, so I just typed my heart out and went for it. I was a bit overwhelmed at first about the pace and speed of this game. Even when you guys are complaining about how slow it goes.
I had nothing to go on and was happy to lurk, but wanted to atleast let people know that I was there, so I posted a list, since I thought it couldn't do much harm to sum up my thoughts.
2. He come back in after the D1 vote and said he would have gone for his top scum read, KSC D1. Fair enough. However, when it comes towards the end of the day, the two wagons were MD and Sulfurus. If I'm town and I've got a choice between a null read and my number two scum read, I'm hammering my scum read every single time, and I'm definitely not just wasting my vote on a third party.
I don't see why that is a bad thing. My top scum read was kelsier and didn't want to follow others like a sheep, whilst I wasn't sure on Sulfurus myself. "not waste my vote on a third party" = "never trust any third party and believe in yourself". I don't know why I would say that I would've voted for Kelsier if I was scum. I could have said nothing, or I could have said that I would've voted for Sulfurus, which is equally believable.
3. He votes on TJH, despite there being rumbles of voting on both of his top scum reads, GE and Scott. And this was when the vote was getting somewhat close.
I only voted on TJH for joining n00bking in pressuring TJH, I said during my vote on TJH, that I would still vote for GE.
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Day 3
Day 3 begins.
Reminder voting is mandatory. Voting is done here.
Day ends in
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Mod error or did no one die last night?
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Can someone please confirm what I think this means (medic save LIKE A BOSS / Veteran save LIKE A BOSS)?
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##Vote: TJHuggins
Who got roleblocked?
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Well I've seen both notations - in games with multiple KP, the missing KP is omitted, but if no one dies, well I know I've explicitly stated "no one dies" I guess it could be either.
I'm going to assume medic save because like I said d1, I was RBed, and KSC was killed and a veteran would cause scum to stack RB/KP.
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There was no mod error. Rsoul best mod!
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On July 17 2015 07:05 rsoultin wrote:
There was no mod error. Rsoul best mod!
Cheers for helping out Ras <3
And very nicely done Mr. Medic. <3
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On July 17 2015 07:04 n00bKing wrote:
##Vote: TJHuggins
Who got roleblocked?
I did not get roleblocked.
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And don't give me that TMI crap - if it's a vet setup (mafia knows) they 99.9% RB their shot - and there was no d2/d3 vigi shot - so... Don't out unless you have a red check BTW - it's not lylo.
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On July 17 2015 07:08 Fidei86 wrote:I did not get roleblocked.
I did not get roleblocked.
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On July 17 2015 07:14 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2015 07:08 Fidei86 wrote:On July 17 2015 07:04 n00bKing wrote:
##Vote: TJHuggins
Who got roleblocked? I did not get roleblocked. I did not get roleblocked.
I don't know if its worth much, since i'm not as townie as you two but;
I did not get roleblocked.
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I want to hear more from Grokken when he returns, who is most likely scum: TJH, SW, WP, Tictock.
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On July 17 2015 08:51 TJHuggins wrote:
wooo
This had better be you getting excited to share those thoughts/information with us...
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I was not blocked either.
So I think that confirms that we are in a Doc/ Cop setup.
Pretty unlikely we have a Vigi from a no kill N2 and only the mafia kill N1. I suppose there is a slim chance that they got roleblocked, but it seems unlikely that they held a shot N1 and got blocked lastnight.
I am 100% sure that we have no Veteren. Mafia would absolutely RB their NK target if there was a Vet to avoid loosing their KP. So we know we have a Doc who successfully saved the NK target.
Like the only other explanation here is that Mafia are bad and didn't RB their kill with a Vet out there, or that they oddly with held their KP. Neither of those make much sense, and either way it doesn't change the position Town is in today.
While it might be a good idea for roles to claim and give Town more info to work with, there is no pressing need that I see for them to do so. Blues please use your own judgment if giving yourself up (claiming means you're 100%the NK tonight) will aid town more than your continued actions. This will largely depend on how useful you believe your intel to be for town.
Example: A cop with no red checks should probably hold off claiming, unless the green checks and your claim will drastically aid towns lynch today.
Again, use your own best judgment.
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Btw, stating if you were roleblocked is totally separate from claiming your role.
There is no reason not to tell us if you were roleblocked.
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I was not roleblocked.
For now I'm mainly staring at TJHuggins for that "critical" information which seems to not be "critical" enough that he says it'll be "okay for town" if he dies during night time. Either way he's really fishy and I don't mind him dying. Explain yourself.
I also agree with people saying we have no vigilante. Medic <3
##Vote TJHuggins
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Also, @mod, please post "Day 3" on the voting thread....
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For newbies wondering what to do: Look over filters from TJHuggins, Grokken, scott31337, silentwarrior, TicTock, and WonnaPlay. From there draw judgments on each and POST them in this thread. If you're actually town you'll want to participate in order to help us out and your analyses could come in very helpful. And even if your analyses are terrible, you're at least showing you're a townie trying to help out and you're going to help yourself in improving at TL Mafia.
I'll look over what people said about WonnaPlay and analyze his filter again since they're contradicting my town read on him.
I'd like to ask n00bKing to not get so tunneled and relook over filters. I'd like Half the Sky to continue whatever she's doing.
+ Show Spoiler +I'd like TL to place a little gender icon next to names so I know which pronouns to use.
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On July 17 2015 10:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Also, @mod, please post "Day 3" on the voting thread....
rsoul best mod <3
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I'm still at work for a few more hours, so going to be a bit before I can get into much analyses or explain my reads in much detail.
Right now I'd most like to lynch Scott or SW, with Tj following somewhere behind them. I'm kinda giving TJ the benefit of the doubt atm, but he needs to step it up pretty fast if he wants to keep that benefit.
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Just woke up. Just wanted to say I didn't get roleblocked (Wouldn't it be easier if the roleblocked person just told us?).
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On July 17 2015 10:41 Tictock wrote:
I'm still at work for a few more hours, so going to be a bit before I can get into much analyses or explain my reads in much detail.
Right now I'd most like to lynch Scott or SW, with Tj following somewhere behind them. I'm kinda giving TJ the benefit of the doubt atm, but he needs to step it up pretty fast if he wants to keep that benefit.
Please explain your lynches on those two especially on silentwarrior after you get off from work.
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On July 17 2015 07:37 Half the Sky wrote:
I want to hear more from Grokken when he returns, who is most likely scum: TJH, SW, WP, Tictock.
I said earlier that I didn't have any actual scumreads apart from Ghandi, and not much has changed since. I still think TJH is the most likely to be scum, based on your reads on him earlier.
The other 3 voted for Ghandi to get lynched even though he was town. I made the same mistake though, and the other 3 haven't really been acting scummy, so it's hard for me to tell.
If TJH flips mafia, I think we can move on to SW/WP/TT. Scott voted for him while the votes were close between him and Ghandi, I don't think it's likely that he would vote for his scumbuddy over Ghandi, so if TJH is mafia, Scott is likely town.
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On July 17 2015 11:44 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2015 10:41 Tictock wrote:
I'm still at work for a few more hours, so going to be a bit before I can get into much analyses or explain my reads in much detail.
Right now I'd most like to lynch Scott or SW, with Tj following somewhere behind them. I'm kinda giving TJ the benefit of the doubt atm, but he needs to step it up pretty fast if he wants to keep that benefit. Please explain your lynches on those two especially on silentwarrior after you get off from work.
My read on SW comes largely from when I dove into his filter. I explained my read in this post.
QUOTE]On July 17 2015 03:08 Tictock wrote:
Actually, SW you should tell us why you think TJ is scum.
A quick browse of your one page filter shows me that this is your initial read on TJ
On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote:
I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me.
Then on D2 when TJ is being pushed by most of the thread you post this.
On July 15 2015 04:35 silentwarrior wrote:
Scumlean:
scott31337
TJHuggins
Probably scum:
GhandiEAGLE
You never mentioned TJ in between those 2 posts. What changed your read?
I also noted that your Day 1 Vote was super weak. You afk voted on NHM based on your entrance posts...
On July 12 2015 08:23 silentwarrior wrote:
Hey guys, sorry for being late. So I just read trough the thread and here are some of my thoughts now. First, fidei seems like a town read to me right now. He seems to genuienly want to create an enviroment that is good for town. His first post makes this obvious. Have to disagree on his stance however. Imo, most games suffer from people not saying enough than the opposite.
My background is pretty newbie. Have been in a few forum mafia games, but mostly i play IRL.
On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote:
Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns.
I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia.
Which looks really bad. You basically took one look at the game, made your vote then never reevaluated. You even setup your vote by opening with a weak townread on Fidei then attack someone attacking your townread, but you never pushed the idea or anything. In fact you just afk'd the rest of the day.
I'd like to hear some more detail about your read flip on TJ please.
Also interested if your neutral read on WP has changed at all.[/QUOTE]
I would still like SW to answer the questions I posted there.
Not sure how much time I have tonight, but I want to read over Scott and Grok's filters.
I also owe you guys a pretty full explanation on my TJ read. I was really hoping he'd be posting more today as right now I've got lines of thought bringing me to opposite reads on him.
I'm going to take my time with those posts. Both because I want to hear more from Scott/SW/TJ but also because I want to make sure I've got solid reasoning for my reads.
I also want to respond to n00bs posts from last night.
^^^^
That is more or less my To-Do list for this day phase, please hold me accountable for any of that I do not follow through on.
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EBWOP: Just for clarity
On July 17 2015 13:31 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2015 11:44 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 17 2015 10:41 Tictock wrote:
I'm still at work for a few more hours, so going to be a bit before I can get into much analyses or explain my reads in much detail.
Right now I'd most like to lynch Scott or SW, with Tj following somewhere behind them. I'm kinda giving TJ the benefit of the doubt atm, but he needs to step it up pretty fast if he wants to keep that benefit. Please explain your lynches on those two especially on silentwarrior after you get off from work. My read on SW comes largely from when I dove into his filter. I explained my read in this post. Show nested quote +On July 17 2015 03:08 Tictock wrote:Actually, SW you should tell us why you think TJ is scum. A quick browse of your one page filter shows me that this is your initial read on TJ On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote:
I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me.
Then on D2 when TJ is being pushed by most of the thread you post this. On July 15 2015 04:35 silentwarrior wrote:
Scumlean:
scott31337
TJHuggins
Probably scum:
GhandiEAGLE You never mentioned TJ in between those 2 posts. What changed your read? I also noted that your Day 1 Vote was super weak. You afk voted on NHM based on your entrance posts... On July 12 2015 08:23 silentwarrior wrote:
Hey guys, sorry for being late. So I just read trough the thread and here are some of my thoughts now. First, fidei seems like a town read to me right now. He seems to genuienly want to create an enviroment that is good for town. His first post makes this obvious. Have to disagree on his stance however. Imo, most games suffer from people not saying enough than the opposite.
My background is pretty newbie. Have been in a few forum mafia games, but mostly i play IRL. On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote:
Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns.
I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia. Which looks really bad. You basically took one look at the game, made your vote then never reevaluated. You even setup your vote by opening with a weak townread on Fidei then attack someone attacking your townread, but you never pushed the idea or anything. In fact you just afk'd the rest of the day. I'd like to hear some more detail about your read flip on TJ please. Also interested if your neutral read on WP has changed at all. I would still like SW to answer the questions I posted there. Not sure how much time I have tonight, but I want to read over Scott and Grok's filters. I also owe you guys a pretty full explanation on my TJ read. I was really hoping he'd be posting more today as right now I've got lines of thought bringing me to opposite reads on him. I'm going to take my time with those posts. Both because I want to hear more from Scott/SW/TJ but also because I want to make sure I've got solid reasoning for my reads. I also want to respond to n00bs posts from last night. ^^^^ That is more or less my To-Do list for this day phase, please hold me accountable for any of that I do not follow through on.
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Oh also add reading WonnaPlay's filter to my To Do list.
I find it unlikely that scum hammers town in a mislynch, but that's no reason to ignore him. Also I ignored SW most of D2 but after reading his filter I found he deserved a lot more attention, not making that mistake again.
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On July 17 2015 07:07 Half the Sky wrote:
Cheers for helping out Ras <3
Why would you call her "Ras?"
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On July 17 2015 13:46 n00bKing wrote:Why would you call her "Ras?"
Shortened nickname. First 1-2 games we had together we developed a nickname for her - Rasputin, sometimes I call her that or just Ras, a few call her by her first name, those that know her outside the game.
Next bit is for TJHuggins
On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote:
Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:
1. MoosyDoosy
2. Sulfuras
3. Grokken
Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)
If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.
On July 16 2015 08:22 TJHuggins wrote:This was actually one of the major reasons I put him as #2 on my mafia list on day 1. I thought that it was probable he was caught and a lie and was tying to "talk" his way out of it.
On July 16 2015 08:25 TJHuggins wrote:
He characterizes it as a "mistake." But what he is describing isn't really what I would call a mistake; it's more like - I'm not sure what to call it- but not a mistake. If what he says is true, his thought appeared to get mumble jumbled just due to the time that passed between the time when he first started typing his post to when he finished. There's nothing he could do to avoid that really. It seems odd to call that a "mistake."
So TJHuggins, Sulfurus is gone now obviously. Aside from the information you've been pinged from (the so called critical information) where do you stand on your reads?
- Where do you stand on MD and Grokken?
- Who are your remaining two scummers and why?
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On July 17 2015 06:17 scott31337 wrote:
WonnaPlay would be the opposite, with top scumming me.
"1] Scott - Gets defended by some people, without him having done anything. I think one of the people talking for him is atleast scum, defending scum. It would also explain the post Sulfurus made about "unvalid vote" and would even explain the night kill on Kelsier (if what you guys saying is true about veterans killing Kelsier).
He isn't even AFK, but because he's afraid from HtS and therefore he is lurking, which raises alarmbells all over the place for me..
2] Ghandi - too sketchy for my taste. The reason I don't have Ghandi on my #1 is that his list looks pretty decent. I'd agree on most points with him there, but who knows if he turns around again after that.. Also his conclusion on Scott being town is totally unwarranted. If Scott turns out to be scum, then Ghandi is one aswell.
3] TJH - made some weird posts during the end of the day regarding the votes, but I could see him being legitimately frustrated about his idea of different rules. I do think that HtS made some solid points, which I can't ignore since she was spot on in the last day. He's also very quiet since that day..
"
[...]
Tictock - his last game made me pretty paranoid. He did a quick vote for Wonna (which I don't care for) but there isn't much else that sticks out at me about him. No tunnels either. Null/scumlean
Can you explain how the WP read especially from the perspective of a first timer TL newbie, would make him exclusively mafia?
And do you have any thoughts about Tictock's read progression?
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Alright so my full thoughts on TJ. This is sorta a filter dive / explanation of the evolution of my read.
in posts like this I usually spoiler the quotes I'm referring too to keep my posts from ballooning too badly.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 11 2015 11:06 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 07:29 Fidei86 wrote:On July 11 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:
YAY confirmed town <3 If only posting first did somehow make you confirmed town. That would sure make this game a lot easier So that everyone knows, the only players I know in the game are scott and NHM. I tunnelled scott pretty hard in the game we played together (Holy Guardians) but he was actually town. I null read NHM in HGand he was mafia, then town read him in Himalayas and he was town. I've also chatted a fair bit to HTS, but I don't know how she plays mafia. Yo I have no clue wtf those acronyms mean can u put like Nydushermain (NHM) the first time you use an acronym so I can understand what you're talking about? Who is HTS? On a game note, I think it's pretty good if we all say like what our mafia background 1) I don't know anyone except for nydus and 2) i always judge my reads on people against a background of their experience (e.g. easier to read someone new to mafia based on little things they do). I have played video mafia on DailyMafia for almost two years and have never played forum mafia before. I am basically a god. I am in a clan called the elo angels because im so good and my elo is so high. My day job involves working with and for lawyers every day so i think about thinks pretty logically and might write formally at some points based on my mood. In video mafia I usually pick up on and push on (sometimes minor) logical inconsistencies and ive noticed ive been tunnelling a bit too hard lately so that may happen this game. My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming. [purple]Also it allowed if i just put every post I type in purple so taht you guys always know its me?[/purple]
TJ's opener was decent, he asks people to share their mafia experience which is a decent place to start in a newbie game. He makes some claims about being a good player with solid video mafia experience and explains that he works with lawyers. Regardless of if that is posturing or legit I think it is safe to assume that TJ is a fairly smart player and should be accounted as one.
This initially led me to scum lean on TJ for 3 reasons.
1) He was scum reading Moosy without really trying to look for town rational behind Moosy's play.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 12 2015 09:57 TJHuggins wrote:I agree with most about what has been said about Moosy. I'm trying to read this game similar to how I would read someone in video mafia (whether or not that is going to work remains to be seen). One way people often get on my "radar" if you will is by dropping sort of key phrases or acting in a certain way after being called out. In my first few months of playing, sometimes this scenario would happen: A particular player, who may be lurking, or just doesn't sound the same (voice tone, pattern, activeness, etc.) would get pinged out by another player who would say that they "feel different this game" or ask "why they're not playing the same as X game they played with them in." In some of these cases, the person would respond back by saying some variation of the phrase "I'm trying to switch up my play this game" or "I'm trying something new this game." I started to realize that when someone came back with this response most of the time they ended up being a mafia trying to cover up for there change in playstyle due to the change in alignment, or sometimes it was just an excuse to lurk e.g. "I'm going to try to sit back and listen and try to get town reads this game instead of trying to pressure the mafia to see how it works." I got a similar feeling looking back at what Moosy said (the quote that many have already noted), though I'll admit I didn't catch it the first time. One thing that I did catch, which I thought was kind of odd, is the quote below, though I'm not quite sure what it means yet. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says. It's a pretty innocuous post on it's face, but what stood out for me is that he is deferring to Ghandi before making judgment. But Ghandi's role in the context of the quoted posts is so minor that I can't think what he could possibly add to the conversation that would in turn color your judgment on Grokken's alignment. In fact, I never even mentioned Ghandi in my post. If he disagrees, ok, but why is he saying he needs to wait and see what Ghandi says? Not sure if I want to lynch him today, but he's on my radar. I still want to hear more. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives? On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191)I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.") I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play.
2) He added Sulf into his scum list without ever talking about him, he spent decent effort giving his other scum reads. Actually TJ never explains why Sulf showed up in this list.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote:
Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:
1. MoosyDoosy
2. Sulfuras
3. Grokken
Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)
If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.
3) His reaction to EoD.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2015 07:03 TJHuggins wrote:
Wait what... the vote count was changed after the day ended. This is some shitty modding. On July 13 2015 07:05 TJHuggins wrote:
I was refreshing the voting thread and never saw the change? Why was it even included in the first place if it wasn't allowed? That's silly. On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote:
Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it. On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote:
Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it. We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that. You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. The fact that it was not corrected until after the time in the day ended is unacceptable imo. I feel very strongly about the integrity of games that I am in and it just annoys me when something like this happens. On July 13 2015 07:21 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:16 KelsierSC wrote:On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. I can give you a hint + Show Spoiler +also please don't criticise mods the way you did, they run games for us and it isn't easy. The mistake was made: that's fine. Everyone makes mistakes. To retroactively correct the mistake after the day ends instead of leaving it as is? Unacceptable from a game integrity standpoint. But we got a mafia; it's whatever. I get passionate about lynches.
I wanted to push my scumread as soon as I jumped into the game so right as D2 began I put my vote on TJ. Unfortunately TJ has basically stopped playing since D1 ended, so any pressure information this vote may have gotten was simply non existent.
Now I found this AFK to be fairly NAI. We know TJ is the boyfriend of NHM who clearly had something come up in RL to need to replace out. It seems perfectly reasonable to assume that this could be affecting TJ as well, and he even suggests this is the case.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2015 09:24 TJHuggins wrote:
I am dealing with someone that is taking priority in real life right now so I do not have time to write out a big post. I will give the essential information that I can provide to town tomorrow. probably.
Towards to end of D2 I decided it was best to not let my vote ride on an AFK person, so I moved my vote around a bit.
After the D2 flip I decided to re-evaluate my reads. I realized #3 of my reasons to scum read TJ was probably more of a town sign than a scum sign. If TJ is a halfway decent player he would realize this reaction would get him easily scum read, and it would be very easy for him to vent that anger in scum QT over In-Game.
I began reading into TJ's promise of important info and subsequent refusal to talk about it N2 as very probable signs that he had a role claim if the votes got bad enough on him. Him not wanting to talk about it N2 is understandable as no blue should ever out themselves during night phase.
At this point I figured that if I was thinking TJ might be a role here, then if he was indeed town then mafia could piece that together themselves. Thus I suggested TJ might be a decent medic save. I said that only half seriously (and whoever medic did save, gj) and as I breadcrumbed in my next post I was half just hoping to WIFOM mafia into not NKing TJ.
Of course TJ might really just be using this promise to buy himself time. Though I think a scum fake claiming like that would be near suicide, so I decided to go with my gut.
Points 1 & 2 have remained valid scum tells in my mind, which is why TJ is still pretty high up on my scum reads. Point #1 maybe isn't super solid though, TJ did give ok reasons for his read and he actively pushed MD a little regarding it.
Now TJ clearly has clearly had an opportunity already today to post, but failed to do anything meaningful. So if I'm right about him being a role I've effectively forced him to claim. Part of me doesn't like that, but at this point I think TJ has forced that on himself given the way he's played the past few phases.
I'm interested if anyone else has better reasons to think TJ is scum other than what I've mentioned here.
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Voted TJ - hopefully he'll shed light from his perspective. Particularly if somehow he's town he can shed some light on the d2 voting.
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Responding to a few things I didn't have time to at work.
On July 17 2015 04:50 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2015 04:38 Tictock wrote:
If Moosy had in fact Ninja voted like that I would think it very suspect, but most of my reaction was due to the fact that he hadn't actually voted in the voteing thread. I even noted that in one of my posts before Onegu sorted it. That reminded me of a scum strat Onegu himself had suggested to me in my last game with him. So I freaked out a little. I'm not sure of what you are saying here. If he didn't vote in the voting thread, then how did he vote at all? Votes don't count unless they appear in the voting thread, right? Are you saying that a player could like...submit a vote to the Mod via PM, without posting it in the voting thread, and still have it count? Because I didn't think something like that was possible (But I'm a n00b and this is only my 2nd game here, so I'm not sure.) If something like that IS possible, and you thought that's what happened (because Moosy's vote showed up in Onegu's vote count, but it wasn't in the voting thread) then your reaction will make more sense, even though Moosy's vote did not impact the lynch. Because you wouldn't have been able to know that he hadn't submitted it earlier, when he thought it WOULD impact the lynch. Like, honestly, if players can submit votes directly to the Mods via PM, without using the voting thread, my suspicion of you will go down dramatically.
This was suggested to me by Onegu in the Holy Guardians game as a way for Scum to swap their votes around EoD. In hindsight it makes little sense for Scum to have done that in this situation, but I was assuming the Final Vote Count posted was correct and that this is what happened.
I had the same reaction you are having when Onegu suggested this to me. It still seems like something that shouldn't be allowed.
It was an over reaction to a weird voting mistake, pretty simple.
On July 17 2015 06:18 Fidei86 wrote:
TickTock has said a bunch of weird things. Top amongst those is wanting to get a medic save on his most scum read player. I'm also still upset that he said that my vote on Sulfurus was somehow ninja, when I telegraphed it a mile in advance. Finally, his voting on Scott then coming off was just bizarre. I don't see a reason to move off a scum read and onto someone you'd been town reading at certain points, just to "make things interesting".
You know that isn't what I said, why are you pushing that out of proportion? I pointed out that you had no mention of Sulf in your filter before this post, we even discussed this earlier.
On July 13 2015 02:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@n00bking I'm down for that. I'd rather lynch a lurker than Moosy. At least Moosy is here and semi-willing to engage. There's still a few hours before deadline, but right now I'd lynch Scott and/or Sulfur and/or NHM without hesitation.
At best you can say you sheeped n00b and HtS on the Sulf lynch.
What is your opinion of SW Fidei?
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As much as I want to hear from TJ I'm actually pretty down to lynch SW or Scott at the moment.
For now SW takes priority for me.
## Vote: silentwarrior
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I'm also getting more and more concerned that Grok is not really trying to solve the game.
He has stated multiple times that he "doesn't have any actual scumreads apart from Ghandi" yet I don't see him trying to do anything about it.
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On July 17 2015 16:26 Tictock wrote:
I'm also getting more and more concerned that Grok is not really trying to solve the game.
He has stated multiple times that he "doesn't have any actual scumreads apart from Ghandi" yet I don't see him trying to do anything about it.
It's my first forum mafia game (only previous mafia experience is playing a few rounds of IRL mafia with friends who were mostly first timers). I can spot contradictions and flaws with other peoples analysis, but I'm having a hard time figuring out their agenda. I can assure you that I'm trying to figure it out, I'm just not very good at it yet.
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On July 17 2015 07:14 scott31337 wrote:And don't give me that TMI crap - if it's a vet setup (mafia knows) they 99.9% RB their shot - and there was no d2/d3 vigi shot - so... Don't out unless you have a red check BTW - it's not lylo.
I think your conclusion is sound and I fully agree as I have said.
I find it very interesting that you are concerned about having TMI though...
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@TickTock I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but however you worded it, that's what you implied. And it stands against you. It's not the only reason, or even the main reason I would vote for you, but I do count it against you. I guess it's for others to decide who they believe (or whether they believe both of us...).
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On July 17 2015 19:02 Fidei86 wrote:
@TickTock I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but however you worded it, that's what you implied. And it stands against you. It's not the only reason, or even the main reason I would vote for you, but I do count it against you. I guess it's for others to decide who they believe (or whether they believe both of us...).
You think I am scummy for calling you out on that? That's interesting.
What about me pointing out that there is no mention of Sulf in your filter up until that post (which was after he got called out by n00b) makes me scum?
Tell me more about why you think I am scum this game.
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On July 17 2015 06:18 Fidei86 wrote:
The TJH lynch has been explained at length, and it's almost certainly the correct one. I stopped recording points on him when I got to #7. Also, whereas Ghandi was still trying to solve the game all of D2, TJH did nothing constructive at all.
Actually Fidei what were those 7 points regarding why you think TJ is scum?
Please indulge us.
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Also FIdei, while you are at it. What is your read on SW?
He is also rather absent from your filter.
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To clarify the ninja voting comments, ninja voting is where you actually vote in the vote thread without a corresponding vote or explanation in the game thread. Ninja voting is a scum tell. In normal (traditional role/ruleset) games people cannot PM votes to the moderator. There are exceptions in themed games but that's beyond the scope here. This game is a normal.
On July 17 2015 19:02 Fidei86 wrote:
@TickTock I don't want to blow this out of proportion, but however you worded it, that's what you implied. And it stands against you. It's not the only reason, or even the main reason I would vote for you, but I do count it against you. I guess it's for others to decide who they believe (or whether they believe both of us...).
Haste to judgement (anyone) is generally a scum tell because scum need to find ways to spin things for their agenda. Namely finding a path to mislynches.
The comment for Scott (second sentence) I also don't like because there is a world where a town Scott would say something like that. (If Scott is Mafia its not for that.) Setup speculation is NAI in most cases to begin with but it's not out of the realm of possibilities for a town veteran to say that in a newbie game (where newbies may not grasp mechanics). Even ignoring Scott's meta (which Tictock won't know regardless of alignment) the reaction could also come from any town who is already being scumread widely and this is true for Scott. He could be saying this as mafia but in reality as any alignment.
What I can conclude is there is haste to judgement over the number of posts this has happened on Tictock's filter and not just the post on Scott. He fails to consider the potential town realm for any of the people he's commenting on, and a lack of demonstrating remedy - that is more of a problem when you see that over several posts.
For example I already know Grokken's been doing a lot of parroting which in of itself has bothered me but newbies do that as either alignment but there are a few ways to split the newb behaviour from the scum behaviour. Tictock isn't doing that over the course of several posts. I believe n00bKing mentioned something earlier that was similar but that is what I see here.
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On July 17 2015 16:21 Tictock wrote:
As much as I want to hear from TJ I'm actually pretty down to lynch SW or Scott at the moment.
For now SW takes priority for me.
## Vote: silentwarrior
What in your mind makes SW a stronger candidate than TJH or Scott?
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You explained your issues for SW on page 36 but where is your comparison for why TJH ranks below him? if you've said that just link me to the page.
(on mobile at the airport....)
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@ HtS
I'll post a solid case on SW here in a bit, I am definitely thinking he is the best lynch atm. I have a couple hours before work, I'll get it done before that.
The comment for Scott (second sentence) I also don't like because there is a world where a town Scott would say something like that. (If Scott is Mafia its not for that.) Setup speculation is NAI in most cases to begin with but it's not out of the realm of possibilities for a town veteran to say that in a newbie game (where newbies may not grasp mechanics). Even ignoring Scott's meta (which Tictock won't know regardless of alignment) the reaction could also come from any town who is already being scumread widely and this is true for Scott. He could be saying this as mafia but in reality as any alignment.
You make a good point, I had the same thought but I wanted to see any further reactions from Scott. To me I just thought it was interesting that his mind even went to that as being TMI. I had the same thought, drew the same conclusion, but never once did it occur to me that making that statement/argument could be considered TMI. So him commenting on it shows that his mind is already considering TMI, but you do make a solid point that a paniked Towny could have that same thought.
As for TJ.
So the biggest thing besides the points I made at the top of pg 37, here. Is that TJ is like being universally pushed as scum, but that hardly anyone is making a real case on him. Before I started to rethink my read on TJ, Ghandi was the only one to say TJ was a bad lynch. So realistically it's pretty much the entire thread vs TJ right now (+ Show Spoiler +I still don't mind seeing him lynched as the game stands, but I understand you can't take my word for that
It REALLY bugs me the nobody is even really saying why TJ is scum anymore. That is probably the biggest reason why I don't feel comfortable lynching him atm.
Not at all important, you prob don't even want to read it...
+ Show Spoiler +Also just FYI, I think I may be picking up some frequencies from your Tin Foil Hat, kus I'm starting to think along the same line. I'll talk about this more later this phase.
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One other point in regards to TJ I wasn't quite able to articulate before.
Even if TJ is scum, he is still only half the team remaining. Clearly in this world TJ's partner buses TJ for the town cred and tries to keep pushing. So I would just like to make the effort to look for his teammate if TJ is in fact scum.
That world still doesn't fully make sense to me though, like TJ has been around enough to know that if he is scum he needs to make some kinda effort. One person taking on 6 Town plus whatever blue powers we are able to keep using to our advantage... That is a ballsy scumplay. In a world where TJ is scum and getting bussed, the final scum has nerves of steel to try and take down the rest of town solo.
If that is the world that we live in... *shivers*
Much more likely that is TJ were scum he would have already claimed or something to throw out as much chaos from his death as possible, but here TJ isn't even taking that option...
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Well the problem with TJ aside from his D1 play is that he also keeps piping in saying he's going to deliver stuff, at least Scott's done that to some extent and furthermore based on the content that already exists n00b's made several tie-ins to association cases (so lynching TJH can be argued as a lynch for information regardless of alignment yet there's a stronger case if he is independent most scummy) where TJ IS the common denominator plus the voting analysis implicates him to some degree.
Point is, there are layers of behaviour that already indicate he's mafia and as for engaging him (or updating with new information), as long as he's AFK the previous stances aren't really going to go away.
As for the point on scum making some sort of effort, as for how scum behaves, here's the thing, some can lurk if they see townies tunnelled on each other because they are more or less doing the job for him. There definitely have been student games where the townies were so tunnelled on each other that scum were able to coast and stay under the radar regardless of their own activity. Optimal mafia activity is - or should be - fluid which is why I say that - esepcially in newbie game where the average activity is lower anyhow - activity itself isn't necessarily going to be a scum tell, but can supplment his past behaviour and the current state of the game.
Also going for TJ's partner doesn't make sense when you don't know TJ's alignment and when you seem to be less convinced of it. (unless that's what you meant by the third paragraph)
If you think SW is independently scummy and the most scummy that's one thing OR since there's a flipped mafia if you think there's enough association there to implicate him then that's a separate issue.
As for Ghandi saying that TJ is a bad lynch, that also doesn't mean he's right either. He admitted he might not have had the best grip on reads and especially if he wasn't a blue role where he could have had access to more perfect information. His sentiment was honest, but it's not always going to guarantee he's accurate.
My VCA was 50/50 on SW, but I need to review the points that n00b also brought up.
You do have a point on how "everyone is willing to lynch him" and how that creates some doubt but you also have to look into those sheeping for bad reasons or whether the evidence that is already there is powerful enough. Furthermore, with 10 players in the game, if TJ is scum, and with only one other scummer left, what choice does the remaining scummer have? I don't think making a ballsy play is relevant. Even if TJ were town, there's a crazy amount of people screwing up for that to happen, and the everyone wanting to lynch TJH argument, well it's also still pretty early in the day and others have yet to chime in.
This is not to say that exploring pushing SW is wrong but I think you are discounting TJH for the wrong reasons.
If there were say 9 players left, 3 of which were unflipped scum and then you have everyone piling onto one player, that point might have more validity.
As for TJ's AFKness, I would expect him to show up at some point and explain himself, answer the questions that are in the thread and look for mafia or suggest alternatives if he isn't one of them.
TLDR - the scummers need to be sought out separately before you make associations. You can make pre-associative cases for information but that should not be the brunt of the basis for the lynch. Cases can also be built on layers and not just one massive post (that's what I gathered you were implying from your use of the word case) and scum behaviour is WIFOM/fluid - you cant assume esp in a newbie game that a certain alignment will lurk or not (given your comment "needs to make some kina of effort")
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In any case I'm gone for awhile...I'll be back when I'm settled Stateside.
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Time for a super fun summary post and case!
I started off D3 saying that SW and Scott are my top scum reads with TJ somewhere behind them.
TJHuggins - Whats up with this guy?
The more I've talked about why I'm unsure of TJ the more I've doubted my scum read on him. He clearly looks really bad, but the pieces aren't falling into place for him to be scum to me. I've made extensive posts on him already so just read them if you somehow missed them.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 17 2015 15:41 Tictock wrote:Alright so my full thoughts on TJ. This is sorta a filter dive / explanation of the evolution of my read. in posts like this I usually spoiler the quotes I'm referring too to keep my posts from ballooning too badly. + Show Spoiler +On July 11 2015 11:06 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 07:29 Fidei86 wrote:On July 11 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:
YAY confirmed town <3 If only posting first did somehow make you confirmed town. That would sure make this game a lot easier So that everyone knows, the only players I know in the game are scott and NHM. I tunnelled scott pretty hard in the game we played together (Holy Guardians) but he was actually town. I null read NHM in HGand he was mafia, then town read him in Himalayas and he was town. I've also chatted a fair bit to HTS, but I don't know how she plays mafia. Yo I have no clue wtf those acronyms mean can u put like Nydushermain (NHM) the first time you use an acronym so I can understand what you're talking about? Who is HTS? On a game note, I think it's pretty good if we all say like what our mafia background 1) I don't know anyone except for nydus and 2) i always judge my reads on people against a background of their experience (e.g. easier to read someone new to mafia based on little things they do). I have played video mafia on DailyMafia for almost two years and have never played forum mafia before. I am basically a god. I am in a clan called the elo angels because im so good and my elo is so high. My day job involves working with and for lawyers every day so i think about thinks pretty logically and might write formally at some points based on my mood. In video mafia I usually pick up on and push on (sometimes minor) logical inconsistencies and ive noticed ive been tunnelling a bit too hard lately so that may happen this game. My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming. [purple]Also it allowed if i just put every post I type in purple so taht you guys always know its me?[/purple] TJ's opener was decent, he asks people to share their mafia experience which is a decent place to start in a newbie game. He makes some claims about being a good player with solid video mafia experience and explains that he works with lawyers. Regardless of if that is posturing or legit I think it is safe to assume that TJ is a fairly smart player and should be accounted as one. This initially led me to scum lean on TJ for 3 reasons. 1) He was scum reading Moosy without really trying to look for town rational behind Moosy's play. + Show Spoiler +On July 12 2015 09:57 TJHuggins wrote:I agree with most about what has been said about Moosy. I'm trying to read this game similar to how I would read someone in video mafia (whether or not that is going to work remains to be seen). One way people often get on my "radar" if you will is by dropping sort of key phrases or acting in a certain way after being called out. In my first few months of playing, sometimes this scenario would happen: A particular player, who may be lurking, or just doesn't sound the same (voice tone, pattern, activeness, etc.) would get pinged out by another player who would say that they "feel different this game" or ask "why they're not playing the same as X game they played with them in." In some of these cases, the person would respond back by saying some variation of the phrase "I'm trying to switch up my play this game" or "I'm trying something new this game." I started to realize that when someone came back with this response most of the time they ended up being a mafia trying to cover up for there change in playstyle due to the change in alignment, or sometimes it was just an excuse to lurk e.g. "I'm going to try to sit back and listen and try to get town reads this game instead of trying to pressure the mafia to see how it works." I got a similar feeling looking back at what Moosy said (the quote that many have already noted), though I'll admit I didn't catch it the first time. One thing that I did catch, which I thought was kind of odd, is the quote below, though I'm not quite sure what it means yet. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says. It's a pretty innocuous post on it's face, but what stood out for me is that he is deferring to Ghandi before making judgment. But Ghandi's role in the context of the quoted posts is so minor that I can't think what he could possibly add to the conversation that would in turn color your judgment on Grokken's alignment. In fact, I never even mentioned Ghandi in my post. If he disagrees, ok, but why is he saying he needs to wait and see what Ghandi says? Not sure if I want to lynch him today, but he's on my radar. I still want to hear more. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives? On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191)I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.") I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play. 2) He added Sulf into his scum list without ever talking about him, he spent decent effort giving his other scum reads. Actually TJ never explains why Sulf showed up in this list. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote:
Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:
1. MoosyDoosy
2. Sulfuras
3. Grokken
Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)
If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.
3) His reaction to EoD. + Show Spoiler +On July 13 2015 07:03 TJHuggins wrote:
Wait what... the vote count was changed after the day ended. This is some shitty modding. On July 13 2015 07:05 TJHuggins wrote:
I was refreshing the voting thread and never saw the change? Why was it even included in the first place if it wasn't allowed? That's silly. On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote:
Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it. On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote:
Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it. We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that. You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. The fact that it was not corrected until after the time in the day ended is unacceptable imo. I feel very strongly about the integrity of games that I am in and it just annoys me when something like this happens. On July 13 2015 07:21 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:16 KelsierSC wrote:On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. I can give you a hint + Show Spoiler +also please don't criticise mods the way you did, they run games for us and it isn't easy. The mistake was made: that's fine. Everyone makes mistakes. To retroactively correct the mistake after the day ends instead of leaving it as is? Unacceptable from a game integrity standpoint. But we got a mafia; it's whatever. I get passionate about lynches. I wanted to push my scumread as soon as I jumped into the game so right as D2 began I put my vote on TJ. Unfortunately TJ has basically stopped playing since D1 ended, so any pressure information this vote may have gotten was simply non existent. Now I found this AFK to be fairly NAI. We know TJ is the boyfriend of NHM who clearly had something come up in RL to need to replace out. It seems perfectly reasonable to assume that this could be affecting TJ as well, and he even suggests this is the case. + Show Spoiler +On July 14 2015 09:24 TJHuggins wrote:
I am dealing with someone that is taking priority in real life right now so I do not have time to write out a big post. I will give the essential information that I can provide to town tomorrow. probably.
Towards to end of D2 I decided it was best to not let my vote ride on an AFK person, so I moved my vote around a bit. After the D2 flip I decided to re-evaluate my reads. I realized #3 of my reasons to scum read TJ was probably more of a town sign than a scum sign. If TJ is a halfway decent player he would realize this reaction would get him easily scum read, and it would be very easy for him to vent that anger in scum QT over In-Game. I began reading into TJ's promise of important info and subsequent refusal to talk about it N2 as very probable signs that he had a role claim if the votes got bad enough on him. Him not wanting to talk about it N2 is understandable as no blue should ever out themselves during night phase. At this point I figured that if I was thinking TJ might be a role here, then if he was indeed town then mafia could piece that together themselves. Thus I suggested TJ might be a decent medic save. I said that only half seriously (and whoever medic did save, gj) and as I breadcrumbed in my next post I was half just hoping to WIFOM mafia into not NKing TJ. Of course TJ might really just be using this promise to buy himself time. Though I think a scum fake claiming like that would be near suicide, so I decided to go with my gut. Points 1 & 2 have remained valid scum tells in my mind, which is why TJ is still pretty high up on my scum reads. Point #1 maybe isn't super solid though, TJ did give ok reasons for his read and he actively pushed MD a little regarding it. Now TJ clearly has clearly had an opportunity already today to post, but failed to do anything meaningful. So if I'm right about him being a role I've effectively forced him to claim. Part of me doesn't like that, but at this point I think TJ has forced that on himself given the way he's played the past few phases. I'm interested if anyone else has better reasons to think TJ is scum other than what I've mentioned here. On July 17 2015 23:19 Tictock wrote:As for TJ. So the biggest thing besides the points I made at the top of pg 37, here. Is that TJ is like being universally pushed as scum, but that hardly anyone is making a real case on him. Before I started to rethink my read on TJ, Ghandi was the only one to say TJ was a bad lynch. So realistically it's pretty much the entire thread vs TJ right now ( + Show Spoiler +I still don't mind seeing him lynched as the game stands, but I understand you can't take my word for that ), that doesn't feel right for a lynch on scum to me. It REALLY bugs me the nobody is even really saying why TJ is scum anymore. That is probably the biggest reason why I don't feel comfortable lynching him atm. Not at all important, you prob don't even want to read it... + Show Spoiler +Also just FYI, I think I may be picking up some frequencies from your Tin Foil Hat, kus I'm starting to think along the same line. I'll talk about this more later this phase. On July 17 2015 23:39 Tictock wrote:
One other point in regards to TJ I wasn't quite able to articulate before.
Even if TJ is scum, he is still only half the team remaining. Clearly in this world TJ's partner buses TJ for the town cred and tries to keep pushing. So I would just like to make the effort to look for his teammate if TJ is in fact scum.
That world still doesn't fully make sense to me though, like TJ has been around enough to know that if he is scum he needs to make some kinda effort. One person taking on 6 Town plus whatever blue powers we are able to keep using to our advantage... That is a ballsy scumplay. In a world where TJ is scum and getting bussed, the final scum has nerves of steel to try and take down the rest of town solo.
If that is the world that we live in... *shivers*
Much more likely that is TJ were scum he would have already claimed or something to throw out as much chaos from his death as possible, but here TJ isn't even taking that option...
Like, he really could be scum here I'm just having a hard time believing that world right now. I'd rather not spend all today beating a dead horse if nothing else.
scott31337 - Playing to a win condition?
Meta Read: Meh - inconclusive. + Show Spoiler +
I'm used to Scott participating as town a lot more, but I've honestly only played one real game with him in Holy Guardians. Scott was in the first 2 newbie games I played in, but was lynched D1 in both those games. If I had to compare Scott's play here to any of those games it would be NSW IX where scott got himself Mislynched as town D1 for being unable to convince town that he wasn't scum after a weird mistake early in the phase.
I've honestly never seen Scott's scum meta, so at best I can say Scott is town from my meta read on him, but that's a pretty poor read.
Typically my response when someone posts very little is to take their posts much more seriously. So lets try that with Scott
D1: Literally one post, and it sucked. Also failed to vote... very unusual for Scott imo.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 12 2015 01:02 scott31337 wrote:
Good Morning... Let me wake up a bit more and re-read, but I don't see a whole lot to go on so far that sticks out at me - except a slight town lean on Fidei.
N1: Looking better. Was the first to go ahead and call everyone on the Sulf wagon Town, pushed me for suggesting MD be a Cop check. His EoD apology and Reaction posts are NAI.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2015 03:03 scott31337 wrote:
I'm so sorry I forgot to vote guys - deadline and other things blew right by me. Let me catch up and post my thoughts. On July 14 2015 03:06 scott31337 wrote:
I just saw the GF got lynched - nniiccee
That's a nice vote count too - gives us a boatload of information. On July 14 2015 03:52 scott31337 wrote: FINAL VOTE COUNT Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, NoobkingMoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top. I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy. TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy On July 14 2015 10:37 scott31337 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 06:55 Tictock wrote:On July 14 2015 03:52 scott31337 wrote: FINAL VOTE COUNT Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, NoobkingMoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top. I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy. TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy This is probably very solid. Very unlikely that mafia buss their teammate in this situation when MD is another option. The only situation where things get tricky is if MD is in fact mafia as well here... Seems unlikely to me, but also means MD is an ok Cop check. Why is MD a cop check? Please explain more from your reasoning.
D2: Basically says nothing. The vote on TJ with no explanation besides "I don't wanna be modkilled" looks like shit. Another promise to be active, with no follow-up.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 14 2015 10:42 scott31337 wrote:
I'm off in left field in this game but I think we almost have it solved - Sorry I'm not contributing much. HtS town love gives me a stiffy and normally she's not solid - <3 On July 15 2015 07:18 scott31337 wrote:Yayy I'm dead in the other game so I can concentrate on this one now - I'll do some buttkicking tonight after house cleaning. On July 16 2015 00:25 scott31337 wrote:
I've been really busy as well, but I can't forget to vote this time...We don't need any modkilled townies.
##Vote Tjhuggins
N2: Finally scott posts some reads... too bad they are all terrible, and I mean like really terrible. His top scumread is WP and his reason is basically WP said Scott and Ghandi were scum D1, and Ghandi flipped green... It also looks really bad that Scott now seems to have no opinion on TJ, yet he voted for TJ D2. Seriously, this is like the worst set of reads I've seen this game.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 17 2015 06:17 scott31337 wrote:So having some free time finally - I did some filter diving - HtS is top town and nuff said, even her play is there, not going to bother Fidei looks good too N00bkingas well. Grokken looks a bit better from his explanations- and how he didn't just try to scumread me for my activity and actually looked into explanations - and his wording seems natural to me. He's a townlean for now. WonnaPlay would be the opposite, with top scumming me. "1] Scott - Gets defended by some people, without him having done anything. I think one of the people talking for him is atleast scum, defending scum. It would also explain the post Sulfurus made about "unvalid vote" and would even explain the night kill on Kelsier (if what you guys saying is true about veterans killing Kelsier). He isn't even AFK, but because he's afraid from HtS and therefore he is lurking, which raises alarmbells all over the place for me.. 2] Ghandi - too sketchy for my taste. The reason I don't have Ghandi on my #1 is that his list looks pretty decent. I'd agree on most points with him there, but who knows if he turns around again after that.. Also his conclusion on Scott being town is totally unwarranted. If Scott turns out to be scum, then Ghandi is one aswell. 3] TJH - made some weird posts during the end of the day regarding the votes, but I could see him being legitimately frustrated about his idea of different rules. I do think that HtS made some solid points, which I can't ignore since she was spot on in the last day. He's also very quiet since that day.. " Well we know Ghandi is town now, as well. silentwarrior - He seems to believe in his case, and has some decent points - it could be a mafia case trying to get a mislynch, but I just don't feel that (although he was incorrect) - His posts seem okay for now - he's a null/light town read. Tictock - his last game made me pretty paranoid. He did a quick vote for Wonna (which I don't care for) but there isn't much else that sticks out at me about him. No tunnels either. Null/scumlean Moosy - so he was the other wagon on D1 - There could be that 1% chance that both wagons were scum, but I'm pretty doubtful - so thats something there. He's got some good thoughts in here - and I believe his anger with the d2 vote wasn't "ninja voted" - townlean TJH - Not much here to go on - but one of his latest posts - Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 08:11 TJHuggins wrote:
I reviewed the past few days last night but didn't have time to make a big post. I was going to make one today before the day ended but got home late.
I would have voted for Grokken. I think Ghandi was a mistake. Is pretty bad in my opinion - the votes were pretty interesting at the end - unsure what in his reads have changed either. Null ## Sulfurus / WonnaPlay / Tictock for gamecreds I'll be around for about 2-3 hours (finally!) so if you have any questions or things you'd like me to check, please let me know - but it's going to pretty bad (Multiple job interviews, friend broke his ankle, and help another friend buy/move/fix a car - all things I did not plan - have been affecting my time here - I apologize)
D3: Same pattern of posting so far... Also the point I made earlier about how Scott is worried about having TMI, idk HtS pointed out it could be paranoid towny thinking.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 17 2015 07:14 scott31337 wrote:And don't give me that TMI crap - if it's a vet setup (mafia knows) they 99.9% RB their shot - and there was no d2/d3 vigi shot - so... Don't out unless you have a red check BTW - it's not lylo.
Yea, Scott is a fine lynch today as well. His play just looks like he is coasting and doesn't really seem to care about the game. The 2 things that really point to him being scum to me here are his; 1)vote on TJ D2 with no explanation, and then the sudden indifference to TJ in his reads post. 2) That Scott thought saying there was a medic was TMI when it was a very valid assumption.
silentwarrior - Silent but Deadly?
So I kinda posted my read on SW already, here, as such what follows is moreso my case on him right now.
1) SW's D1 play. He comes into the game and in the space of 10 min makes his only reads of the day. He then solo votes based on those reads almost 24 hours later without really commenting on the rest of the game.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 12 2015 08:23 silentwarrior wrote:
Hey guys, sorry for being late. So I just read trough the thread and here are some of my thoughts now. First, fidei seems like a town read to me right now. He seems to genuienly want to create an enviroment that is good for town. His first post makes this obvious. Have to disagree on his stance however. Imo, most games suffer from people not saying enough than the opposite.
My background is pretty newbie. Have been in a few forum mafia games, but mostly i play IRL. On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote:
Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns.
I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia. On July 13 2015 06:04 silentwarrior wrote:
Gonna vote for NydusHerMain. Right now, she isn't saying much at all, and left pretty suspiciously. I would rather her get lynched than MoosyDoosy, since he is actually active and contributing. That helps the town, even if most of what he says is bad and he is still high on my scumlist. However, not saying anything dosen't help much at all.
2) Since I replaced in SW has completely ignored me. If he thought NHM was scummy enough to solo vote D1 why is he not even trying to get a read on me? I literally show up twice in SW's filter, once when he posts a list and my slot is suddenly neutral and once when he directly responds to a post from me.
3) SW flips his read on TJ with literally no explanation. I pointed this out before, but I'll repost the quotes here as well. This just looks like SW is following thread sentiment to me.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote:
I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me.
Also, i get a townvibe from wonnaplay.
Of course, I could be all wrong about this, and mafia decided to sacrifice sulfurus, but dont really think so right now. Regardless, those reamaining that I think the mafia is among is : scott31337, GhandiEAGLE, NydusHerMain. One or two of these three are probably mafia. On July 15 2015 04:35 silentwarrior wrote:
EBWOP (accidently hit post)
Here are my views on everyone:
Most likely town:
n00bKing
Half the Sky
Fidei86
MoosyDoosy
Town lean:
Grokken
Neutral:
NydusHerMain/TICKTOCK
WonnaPlay
Scumlean:
scott31337
TJHuggins
Probably scum:
GhandiEAGLE
4) This point me be a little more neutral, but it fits with the "following thread sentiment" notion.
SW's biggest post was his case on Ghandi, however his "case" came well after I had been pinging out Ghandi most of the day and HtS posted a large case on Ghandi as well. Check where this post came in terms of thread sentiment against ghandi.
To give SW credit where it is due, he had pinged out Ghandi himself in this post
On July 14 2015 08:59 silentwarrior wrote:Show nested quote +On July 14 2015 08:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
To sum up
Scummer read is hardest on Grokken,
Town for me definitively is HtS, Scott, and Fidei.
Too many people posting too little (me included, before ~20 minutes ago). Need more activity please. The guy who has contributed the least (scott) is somehow definetly town for you? And your explanation about it is just bullshit, it makes no sense. I smell mafia here.
So his read is consistent, but he is far from the first person to be picking out Ghandi.
I will also note that it is unlikely that SW put together his large post on Ghandi after reading HtS's post, so this could actually be a point in SW's favor.
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@ HtS
I'm not trying to make association cases at all, my post talking about TJ and a scummate was all hypothetical based on a world where TJ is in fact scum. There is definitely some WIFOM in that post, but hopefully not too much.
Like you said, with TJ not providing anything new to go on... there is nothing new to discuss about TJ. That's why I want to look at other people.
If TJ is town he needs to spill the beans on whatever he's withholding. If he's scum he needs to come up with something decent to talk about to get him our from suspicion. If he doesn't change his tune I have no issues with lynching him.
Thus until TJ either gives us something or it is nearing EoD with no word from him... I'm going to spend my time and vote elsewhere.
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@TickTock the reason why everyone else is maintaining their reads on TJH is because he hasn't said almost anything in the last three days. A lot of town players scum read him, then he went away. You're the only one who has been switching it up so much. The only actual reason you have for switching your vote is that he promised "important information". You read it as him softing blue, but I don't buy that. It could mean any number of things. And it isn't really that your 'read' has changed, it's more that you keep saying he is "scummy" but asking people to imagine worlds where he isn't scum.
And your read on Scott has been similarly all over the map. As far as I can see your only reason for town reading him is that he posted that vote count block with the Sulfurus wagon in green. Except he WASNT the first person to say that. N00b and HTS both either said it or heavily implied it, as did KSC. It was hardly the keen insight you make it out to be (and it's another of your half-truths, which are becoming irksome).
You have made reads on other people, I agree. I actually like your case on SW (whose filter I am pretty meh on. My comments on his first two incredibly poor posts aside, I thought he had done a fair enough job for a new player. However I totally accept that I could be giving him a pass on that basis alone, so I will re-read his filter next).
Overall I would describe your posting as going at 100kph in a 40kph zone. You're shifting your reads on AFK players based on tiny shreds of evidence, or on nothing at all. You also were "reluctant" to town read me at first for no real reason, then you later moved on to say that the entire Sulfurus wagon was pure, again with no new evidence whatsoever.
Look, you're a strong player. So I know you won't get offended when I say that I just don't like your approach to this game. If you're town, then clearly we just view the game differently. But I am inclined to continue to scum read you.
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Also, re my seven points on TJH, I actually did write them down on a piece of paper. Stupidly I didn't bring it when I left the office. However, the one that hasn't been said before I don't think is that in his first post he said he was an incredibly strong player and liked to pick up on and tunnel on small logical inconsistencies. He was right, he did nitpick at Grokken's first post and at my getting a bit shirty with Moosy. But when it came to it, he didn't take either of those reads anywhere and he basically coasted through D1.
Oh, and something I just thought of - HTS' case on Sulfurus was incredibly strong. I'm ashamed of myself now for not spotting what she did, because it was incredibly chronic. I really need to go back to D1 and look at who had the chance to read and consider the wagon, but decided to go elsewhere. Because either they are misguided town or scum.
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... And to nobodies surprise, it looks like the only person to post in between HTS making her utterly unassailable post on Sulfurus and the EOD was ... Wait for it ... TJH.
For someone who claims to be the greatest player ever to descend from heaven and treat us to his presence, he missed an absolute gimme. I don't buy it. I think he's scum and we will be lynching him next.
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Back to TT, you said in your last post that it bugged you that nobody was making a case on TJH. Did you not see n00b's saga-length post on that? Apart from that being exactly the thing that you were lamenting didn't exist, it's also very comprehensive. This game simply isn't long enough for there to be *that* much to go on. And TJH isn't even posting. What are we going to do, give hourly reports on how his lurking is making us feel? No. He was scummy, and cases were made on him. Now he's AFK and those cases still stand as they did.
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In short, and to butcher an excellent Al Franken line, your biography in this game should be titled "half-truths and the half truth tellers who tell them."
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I should really vote now, just to make sure the blocs start forming early so we can do more VCA.
##Vote: TJHuggins
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Okay. I just read SW's filter. I need to go back and check WP's filter now, because I have this weird sense that those two have basically been saying the same thing as each other all game. To the archives!
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I guess the good thing about this particular tunnel I'm in at the moment is that it's so short, but SW and WP have literally not interacted at all in any meaningful way.
SW doesn't say anything about WP at all (except to list him as neutral in his reads list). WP does touch on SW in his 'mega' post, but it all ends up nowhere. Later, when responding to a point that Scott made on SW, WP deflects it back into a, now that I think about it, extremely contorted point (I can't c&p on my phone, but basically Scott pointed out something SW said and WP said "oh so you're saying now we should lynch you."
It makes perfect sense for a newbie scum pairing to interact like they are.
Also, neither of them have really contributed much by way of original thought (it has almost all been parroting), and both of them have filters shorter than one page.
I need one of my town homies to give my thinking a critical look though. Given that I'm now basically scum reading five players (TJH, TT, WP, SW and Scott (Scott because I never forgive lurkers, and because he has been useless)), I've clearly gone quite clearly wrong somewhere.
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These 3 players have still not yet denied the roleblock: TJ, Scott, silentwarrior
I believe SW has not posted since the Phase began.
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Ugh, halfway through this Day phase and nothing new to really discuss.
Someone help me lynch SW or Scott...
Or at least talk about something other than TJ not being around still.
Like I really feel like we are wasting the day right now.
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And yes Fidei I did see n00bs large post on TJ. I also see that you are taking the time to consider other possibilities.
Lynching TJ today is not a waste, but if he ends up flipping town then what have we actually learned today?
Hell even if he flips scum are we any closer to identifying his teammate after today?
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On July 18 2015 07:08 Tictock wrote:
Someone help me lynch SW or Scott...
Hello Ticktock. I want to play a game.
Let's imagine you're a 1-shot Daytime Vigilante. Your shot can only be used on Day 3, so you didn't fire on Days 1 or 2. Your shot needs to be fired within the next 30 minutes of when I'm posting this, let's say. Otherwise it is forfeit.
In this scenario, would you be willing to shoot either SW or Scott, without them making another post? And if so, which one?
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Yea, I'd shoot scott.
Between the 2 of them SW has actually engaged in the thread a little. Scott has only dropped in to make a post or two then buggered off, there is zero evidence of his reads evolving based on the game, where as SW actually put some effort into his large post about Ghandi and had pinged him out before that case.
Assuming the follow up question is why I am voting SW over scott... I want people to consider other players who have not already been talked about by almost everyone, also I want him to answer the questions I posed to him.
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If TJHuggins does not speak up, I am fine with lynching him. Because medic and that Day 1 lynch bought us so much time, we can spare ourselves this if it turns out that TJHuggins was a townie.
From there the logical step would be to look at associations (looking at you n00bKing) and then finding out whether or not we should lynch silentwarrior/Grokken/scott. I couldn't get the chance to look at WonnaPlay's posts and compare it to other's points so I'll do that now.
I'm getting feels about Fidei86/Tictock so I'll look at that too although I don't know if I'll share exactly what I'm thinking right now.
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This is a bit prissy of me and it may be annoying for some but can we please use full names rather than abbreviations? tbh I keep on reading WP as "well played" because of "gg wp" and I'm misreading other abbreviations left and right.
Not to mention "MD" gets on my nerves because I'm not even a doctor. I'm fine with people using "Moosy" and even misspelling it as "Mossy" or something.
Thanks in advance.
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Huh. After reading through WonnaPlay's filter he's either your classic newbie scum or your classic earnest town. I dislike basically all of his voting and his scum reads but I'm still getting a newbie townie vibe from him. I'll reconsider him but I'm not going to think too much into this yet since I'm still waiting on TJHuggins and we get a wealth of information from his lynch if he doesn't defend himself.
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WonnaPlay are you there? I wish to give you an assignment.
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Sorry, for being away so much, been really busy. Will anser what TT wrote about me now.
On July 17 2015 13:31 Tictock wrote:
Actually, SW you should tell us why you think TJ is scum.
His behavior after vote and his writing sulf as second scum list directly after he was tagged.
On July 17 2015 13:31 Tictock wrote:A quick browse of your one page filter shows me that this is your initial read on TJ Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote:
I also lean town on TJHuggins, since he posted that sulfurus was his second on scum list. This was also before any of the voting began, though after sulfurus posted that super scummy post and was tagged for it by Half the sky. Still a good townlean for me.
Then on D2 when TJ is being pushed by most of the thread you post this. Show nested quote +On July 15 2015 04:35 silentwarrior wrote:
Scumlean:
scott31337
TJHuggins
Probably scum:
GhandiEAGLE You never mentioned TJ in between those 2 posts. What changed your read?
This is just a complete lie. I did mention him again and my change of opinon of him is stated there.
On July 18 2015 01:01 Tictock wrote:
SW's D1 play. He comes into the game and in the space of 10 min makes his only reads of the day. He then solo votes based on those reads almost 24 hours later without really commenting on the rest of the game.
At the time I was voting it was not a solovote, which I have also said before.
On July 18 2015 01:01 Tictock wrote:
[ Since I replaced in SW has completely ignored me. If he thought NHM was scummy enough to solo vote D1 why is he not even trying to get a read on me? I literally show up twice in SW's filter, once when he posts a list and my slot is suddenly neutral and once when he directly responds to a post from me.
The scummiest thing I had on d1 was NHM strange vote without much further explanation. I then thought GhandiEagle was much more possible scum than others and focused my attention on him.
On July 18 2015 01:01 Tictock wrote:
This point me be a little more neutral, but it fits with the "following thread sentiment" notion.
SW's biggest post was his case on Ghandi, however his "case" came well after I had been pinging out Ghandi most of the day and HtS posted a large case on Ghandi as well. Check where this post came in terms of thread sentiment against ghandi.
This is also incorrect. I tagged GhandiEagle right after he made that strange comment about scott being town. My big case came later, but I was on to him before you were, and I also said I would analyze him more.
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Oh, also, I wasn't roleblocked (why don't we just let the one who was roleblocked say this?)
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Gonna make a filterdive on TJH now.
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On July 18 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote:
This is just a complete lie. I did mention him again and my change of opinon of him is stated there.
Where? Show me that post, I have looked through your filter and failed to find and mention of TJ between those 2 posts I quoted.
Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 01:01 Tictock wrote:
This point me be a little more neutral, but it fits with the "following thread sentiment" notion.
SW's biggest post was his case on Ghandi, however his "case" came well after I had been pinging out Ghandi most of the day and HtS posted a large case on Ghandi as well. Check where this post came in terms of thread sentiment against ghandi.
This is also incorrect. I tagged GhandiEagle right after he made that strange comment about scott being town. My big case came later, but I was on to him before you were, and I also said I would analyze him more.
I saw that post, pretty sure I mentioned it in that case on you as well. I even stated that that point was sorta weak and that was part of why.
I'd also like you to give us your thoughts on WP.
I know I know, I'm a demanding A-hole.
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On July 18 2015 08:17 MoosyDoosy wrote:
WonnaPlay are you there? I wish to give you an assignment.
You should just say what you want from him, if you wait till you both are around the thread at the same time... Well that may never even happen.
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On July 18 2015 08:45 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 08:17 MoosyDoosy wrote:
WonnaPlay are you there? I wish to give you an assignment. You should just say what you want from him, if you wait till you both are around the thread at the same time... Well that may never even happen.
Well then.
@WonnaPlay, take a look at silentwarrior/Grokken/scott31337's filters and make a list of points for each on why you think they're suspicious. Doesn't have to be super in depth just a list of things that you disliked or liked and place a read like "town" or "scum" on each.
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@Half the Sky, what do you think of Fidei86 vs Tictock? I'm interested in your opinion on it. I would ask n00bKing but I trust your reads more while I trust n00bKing more for his association cases.
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Huh, just noticed this...
On July 18 2015 07:25 TJHuggins wrote:
##Vote: silentwarrior
TJ made this vote about 2 hours ago.
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On July 18 2015 09:17 Tictock wrote:Huh, just noticed this... TJ made this vote about 2 hours ago.
And without giving us the "critical information" or trying to defend himself. Either he's lazy, doesn't want to play this game, doesn't know how to defend himself, or is Mafia trying to desperately skate by and hoping for a quick wagon change in lynch votes.
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Yea idk what the hell to make of that.
TJ's play this game past D1 as either alignment is pure shit.
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Ok, so here is my analysation of TJH.
On July 11 2015 11:06 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 07:29 Fidei86 wrote:On July 11 2015 07:02 Half the Sky wrote:
YAY confirmed town <3 If only posting first did somehow make you confirmed town. That would sure make this game a lot easier So that everyone knows, the only players I know in the game are scott and NHM. I tunnelled scott pretty hard in the game we played together (Holy Guardians) but he was actually town. I null read NHM in HGand he was mafia, then town read him in Himalayas and he was town. I've also chatted a fair bit to HTS, but I don't know how she plays mafia. Yo I have no clue wtf those acronyms mean can u put like Nydushermain (NHM) the first time you use an acronym so I can understand what you're talking about? Who is HTS? On a game note, I think it's pretty good if we all say like what our mafia background 1) I don't know anyone except for nydus and 2) i always judge my reads on people against a background of their experience (e.g. easier to read someone new to mafia based on little things they do). I have played video mafia on DailyMafia for almost two years and have never played forum mafia before. I am basically a god. I am in a clan called the elo angels because im so good and my elo is so high. My day job involves working with and for lawyers every day so i think about thinks pretty logically and might write formally at some points based on my mood. In video mafia I usually pick up on and push on (sometimes minor) logical inconsistencies and ive noticed ive been tunnelling a bit too hard lately so that may happen this game. My only read so far is that Half the Sky is spamming. [purple]Also it allowed if i just put every post I type in purple so taht you guys always know its me?[/purple]
Ok, so the first thing probably anyone noticed with TJH intro post was that he was super arrogant. He calls himself a god, says that he has such a high elo that he is in a clan, and actually wants an unque colour so that we know that it's him. This might now be that indictive of alignment, but was really strange to see on a post first time.
On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read.
So he says his first scumread is grokken. Now, this was just after grokken had a few posts, so there wasn't really that much to go on. He says he gets a weird feeling about him and that he chimes in without helping town. His second quoted post of grokken was simply him wanting to know about NHM, which a lot of people probably found puzzling. Yet he sees this as not contributing, when to me it is the opposite. But later in his post he seems to back of his assesment of him, because of some dota posts grokken made. Most of the time the ones that are insecure enough to back down from a scumread on the same post are mafia, as they always want to seem town but not stir too much up.
On July 12 2015 03:10 TJHuggins wrote:
I agree that it was grokken's town prodding question that got me suspicious of him in the first place.
He later states that the town prodding question (with NHM i guess) was the one that made him suspicipus of grokken in the first place. But what was wrong with that really? Wanting a clarification on a vote only helps town.
On July 12 2015 09:57 TJHuggins wrote:I agree with most about what has been said about Moosy. I'm trying to read this game similar to how I would read someone in video mafia (whether or not that is going to work remains to be seen). One way people often get on my "radar" if you will is by dropping sort of key phrases or acting in a certain way after being called out. In my first few months of playing, sometimes this scenario would happen: A particular player, who may be lurking, or just doesn't sound the same (voice tone, pattern, activeness, etc.) would get pinged out by another player who would say that they "feel different this game" or ask "why they're not playing the same as X game they played with them in." In some of these cases, the person would respond back by saying some variation of the phrase "I'm trying to switch up my play this game" or "I'm trying something new this game." I started to realize that when someone came back with this response most of the time they ended up being a mafia trying to cover up for there change in playstyle due to the change in alignment, or sometimes it was just an excuse to lurk e.g. "I'm going to try to sit back and listen and try to get town reads this game instead of trying to pressure the mafia to see how it works." I got a similar feeling looking back at what Moosy said (the quote that many have already noted), though I'll admit I didn't catch it the first time. One thing that I did catch, which I thought was kind of odd, is the quote below, though I'm not quite sure what it means yet. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says. It's a pretty innocuous post on it's face, but what stood out for me is that he is deferring to Ghandi before making judgment. But Ghandi's role in the context of the quoted posts is so minor that I can't think what he could possibly add to the conversation that would in turn color your judgment on Grokken's alignment. In fact, I never even mentioned Ghandi in my post. If he disagrees, ok, but why is he saying he needs to wait and see what Ghandi says? Not sure if I want to lynch him today, but he's on my radar. I still want to hear more. Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives?
He then says this, after some people think MD is scummy for saying that he wants to change his play. Now, simply saying I agree with that point (about it being scummy to change play from town) would have been enough for him there. But he somehow feels the need to say the same thing but repackaging it with video mafia. This seemed quite of weird to me, like he goes out of his way to do this.
On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191)I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.") I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play.
Now here he states that he didn't even know you could vote for yourself. At this point, most people would go back and look at the rules to see if this was correct or not. In the rules it clearly states that it's not allowed.
On July 13 2015 03:43 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 03:31 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 13 2015 02:43 Fidei86 wrote:
So I'm sitting here thinking "n00b just made a big case on Moosy, then immediately defended him and now wants to lynch elsewhere - classic scum tell!". But then I thought about it and realised that my approach has been exactly the same. I want Moosy to engage, since everything we have on him at the moment is tonal, and could be bad/lazy town. Bleh. This is not a classic scum tell. It's pretty obvious I'm being a shitty townie so his analysis is pretty on point as usual. I really don't see how you guys think I'm Mafia. XD Can you explain to me how I am supposed to differentiate "shitty townie" play from Mafia play? The way your posts are reading to me now it sounds like you are a mafia resigned to their fate. If that's not the case then what is your play here? Do you have anyone you think is mafia? Anyone that you think is town? Any reasons for those reads? Any reasoning for why you have been writing/acting like a 14 year old for the last 12 hours? I'm going to be seriously upset if you are lynched and flip town because all that I will be thinking is: "What the fuck?"
This is also an interesting post. Here he already states that he would be very upset if MD flipped town. Given the fact how d1 lynch went down and MD is townlean by most players, this post seems like it was written to cushion the fall when MD actually does flip town. Which only mafia would know.
On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote:
Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:
1. MoosyDoosy
2. Sulfuras
3. Grokken
Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)
If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.
Ok, this has been said by a lot of people. Just to reiterate, Sulf was placed on as second on TJH scum list right after sulf was tagged. This seems to be a move in case sulf is lynched and he can get some towncred (I admit this got me).
On July 13 2015 07:03 TJHuggins wrote:
Wait what... the vote count was changed after the day ended. This is some shitty modding.
So TJH is mad about MD vote on himself not being counted, which is important because it would have meant sulf woulnd't have been lynched. Kind of strange to think that voting on yourself would count though, and he seems really upset about this turn of events.
On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:On July 13 2015 07:11 TJHuggins wrote:
Wow. Mod-error in town's favor. I'll take it. We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that. You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. The fact that it was not corrected until after the time in the day ended is unacceptable imo. I feel very strongly about the integrity of games that I am in and it just annoys me when something like this happens.
He goes on to say that this is because he feels strongly about the integrity of the game. But he seemed to have no problem having someone vote for themself, which everyone can easily tell is not part of the game.
On July 13 2015 07:21 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:16 KelsierSC wrote:On July 13 2015 07:14 TJHuggins wrote:
I so strongly felt that MD is the most obvious mafia there could possible be... I was going to be so mad if Sulfuras flipped town. Now I'm not so sure since sulfuras was voting on MD. I need to reread Sulfuras posts to see why he was voting on MD. I can give you a hint + Show Spoiler +also please don't criticise mods the way you did, they run games for us and it isn't easy. The mistake was made: that's fine. Everyone makes mistakes. To retroactively correct the mistake after the day ends instead of leaving it as is? Unacceptable from a game integrity standpoint. But we got a mafia; it's whatever. I get passionate about lynches.
Here he states that he actually wanted the mistake to be left as it was. Why? It was incorrect and correcting it led to a lynch of mafia. I think the thing TJH was upset about here was the fact that he thought sulf could be saved and he didn't need to bus him. But since the mistake was corrected after day was over, there was nothing he could do.
On July 13 2015 07:22 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 07:20 n00bKing wrote:On July 13 2015 07:15 TJHuggins wrote:On July 13 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:
We pointed that out in page 15. Nothing was changed after the fact. I'd have responded to you but some mods modkill if you post after deadline and as a moderator myself I didn't want to chance that. You pointed that out but none the less his vote was included in the voting thread for quite some time both before and after. I thought that perhaps it was frowned upon but no strictly forbidden. That's odd that you would think that, considering that this happened, all the way back on Page 13: On July 13 2015 02:00 n00bKing wrote:On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:
I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. Players may not vote for themselves. So the vote count posted on Page 12 is not completely accurate. My point is the vote remained on the voting thread and was included in the vote counts until a minute or two after the day concluded.
He even states so himself. He wouldn't have been angry if they had fixed it earlier, because then it would have given him the chance to change vote.
On July 16 2015 08:11 TJHuggins wrote:
Shit I missed the vote. Sorry guys.
He is then afk for quite a while, and mysteriously pops up just one hour after lynch and posted the above. It almost seems like he dosen't even care about the game anymore, like he feels he has lost. This comes up again:
On July 16 2015 08:30 TJHuggins wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2015 08:23 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 16 2015 08:16 TJHuggins wrote:
Tomorrow. If you die where does that leave us? I would like it if you could post it now for me and HtS to dissect. I may die. But, considering a significant amount of people think that I am mafia (see the three players who voted on me this day), understandably so since I have been very inactive this day, I think it wouldn't be terrible for town if I did die. It will save me from potentially getting mislynched, and keep someone who is much more towny in the game. So I will let the Mafia make the decision.
Here he has the defeatist attitude I was talking about. No effort to try and look town, or even defend himself. Just that he is basically okay with dying. Seeing as how we got scum on d1 lynch and he seemed really upset about it, this could mean he as mafia has given up.
So basically, I think TJH is mafia.
##Vote TJHuggins
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And, TJHuggins decided to vote for me as well without any explanation as well.
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On July 18 2015 08:42 Tictock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 08:25 silentwarrior wrote:
This is just a complete lie. I did mention him again and my change of opinon of him is stated there.
Where? Show me that post, I have looked through your filter and failed to find and mention of TJ between those 2 posts I quoted. Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 01:01 Tictock wrote:
This point me be a little more neutral, but it fits with the "following thread sentiment" notion.
SW's biggest post was his case on Ghandi, however his "case" came well after I had been pinging out Ghandi most of the day and HtS posted a large case on Ghandi as well. Check where this post came in terms of thread sentiment against ghandi.
This is also incorrect. I tagged GhandiEagle right after he made that strange comment about scott being town. My big case came later, but I was on to him before you were, and I also said I would analyze him more. I saw that post, pretty sure I mentioned it in that case on you as well. I even stated that that point was sorta weak and that was part of why. I'd also like you to give us your thoughts on WP. I know I know, I'm a demanding A-hole.
Here is a link to the first thing: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=20#396
Can look into WP tomorrow more, just did a huge post on TJH. Need to go to bed pretty soon.
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@ SW
Alright, it's super unclear who your are referring to in that post but I see what you mean.
Besides with that vote from TJ I don't think we have any choice BUT to lynch him now.
After him it's Scott. Yes that's pretty much regardless on how TJ flips at this point.
##Unvote
##Vote: TJHuggins
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Humm, I'm having an interesting thought here.
Will share if TJ flips red.
I expect town will pick up on it anyways, we seem to be on the same Tin Foil hat frequency this game.
I've raised enough hubub today. I'm gunna bugger off now unless something interesting happens.
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You guys are all terrible. I am the cop. I have a town check on MoosyDoosy and a mafia check on silentwarrior. it should have been obvious to everyone from the night that i am cop.
anyone im off to sleep. posting on twitter #lynchsilentwarrior
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its really funny that he felt it necessary to type that huge analysis of my play after i voted him to LOL
obv maf
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k we'll kill u then silentwarrior. Thanks for the information. <3
btw it's bad play to say you have "critical information" and not participate. So we're not terrible but your play was more abysmal than GhandiEAGLE's.
Your role claim is terrible too and there's a huge thread in TL Mafia that says role claiming is very bad. Should have waited until Day was almost over if you had to reveal that information.
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On July 18 2015 10:36 MoosyDoosy wrote:
k we'll kill u then silentwarrior. Thanks for the information. <3
btw it's bad play to say you have "critical information" and not participate. So we're not terrible but your play was more abysmal than GhandiEAGLE's.
Your role claim is terrible too and there's a huge thread in TL Mafia that says role claiming is very bad. Should have waited until Day was almost over if you had to reveal that information.
lynching me then him is fine with me
gnight
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Okay, I'll admit it. I suck at set-ups (looking at you n00bKing). What's the best action. Take TJHuggins for his word and killing silentwarrior first or killing him? I'm taking silentwarrior is a better step and working from there.
Sorry I got a bit emotional but role claims get me very, very angry.
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I am settled in NYC, I am honestly knackered from the flight etc etc. so bear with me. Probably going to crash soon.
I do not like the timing of the claim but again...this is a newbie game and this train was pretty run away.
The first thing to do is wait for a counterclaim. I figured we're in a DT/medic situation but given he claimed with both of his checks right away it sounds believable. Given those he checked I am inclined to believe him.
If there is no counterclaim and with the GF dead we lynch SW 100%. End of. If he flips town then TJH is autolynch.
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k so we all change our votes to silentwarrior. Nice.
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On July 18 2015 10:23 TJHuggins wrote:
You guys are all terrible. I am the cop. I have a town check on MoosyDoosy and a mafia check on silentwarrior. it should have been obvious to everyone from the night that i am cop.
anyone im off to sleep. posting on twitter #lynchsilentwarrior
Honestly screw you for holding off this long to say jack all.
In my mind you waited far too long to make this claim, and voting with me silently without actually saying this before had is even worse.
I honestly just want to lynch you still for being terrible.
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On July 18 2015 10:36 MoosyDoosy wrote:
k we'll kill u then silentwarrior. Thanks for the information. <3
btw it's bad play to say you have "critical information" and not participate. So we're not terrible but your play was more abysmal than GhandiEAGLE's.
Your role claim is terrible too and there's a huge thread in TL Mafia that says role claiming is very bad. Should have waited until Day was almost over if you had to reveal that information.
You always need to consider timing and circumstances of the claim.
Plus this thread has been very slow. If he claimed and enough were afk he'd still get lynched.
I'm going to swap votes for now but will keep an eye on the thread.
Additionally TJH ninja voting would be justified if he had a red check. Plus scum are a man down already and a NK down already so it'd make no sense for him to trade himself in 1 for 1 if he were scum.
In the meantime it's not too early to start working on SW associations in the abscence of a counterclaim.
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That all said, SW has put in a lot of work (albeit not saying much) for a newbie scum assuming he flips scum. Damn.
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Everything TJ said lines up with exactly what I've been saying.
This oddly makes me want to lynch TJ even more. It all just feels too convenient... like I even suggested MD as a check N1.
Town is at an advantage, and if TJ is actually our Cop he's gone or at least RB'd from now on regardless. We still have our medic...
Lets look at a few possible situations for tomorrow. We have a 8/2 game atm.
Lynching TJ
Worst Case:
We lynch TJ today, he flips Cop. Mafia gets NK. 6/2 but we have a confirmed Scum... puts as at 5/1 next phase. We get MD confirmed here as well
Best Case:
We lynch TJ, flips red. Mafia gets Nk. Start off 7/1 tomorrow. No real new information, too much WIFOM.
Lynching SW
Worst Case:
We lynch SW, he flips Green. Mafia gets NK. 6/2 again with confirmed Scum.
Best Case:
Lynch SW, flips red. Mafia get NK. Again 7/1, however we have more info as town, MD confirmed and TJ confirmed if he survives the night.
Bleh, idk that is full of weird things that can happen with medic saves and I'm probably missing some stuff too. Honestly though we get more or less the same deal regardless of who we lynch today, though obviously it is preferable if we do in fact catch scum.
Honestly the only difference I see is in the potential saves by Medic but that comes down to so much WIFOM.
There seems to be more potential information provided to town via lynching SW if he is in fact mafia. So I guess that is what we go with.
My gut is telling me TJ is playing us though...
Anyone please feel free to comment on this.
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If any scummer is fake claiming the real DT claims. Straightforward.
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Knackered. To bed I go...
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Day 3 Vote Count
TJHuggins(2): silentwarrior, Fidei86
silentwarrior(5): MoosyDoosy, Half the Sky,Ticktock, TJHuggins, Noobking
Not Voting(3):,Grokken, WonnaPlay, scott31337
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently silentwarrior is set to be lynched with 6 votes.
Day 3 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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On July 18 2015 12:13 Half the Sky wrote:
If any scummer is fake claiming the real DT claims. Straightforward.
Yea yea... I can way overcomplicate things.
The important thing here is that I might be getting a lot better drawing good conclusions from it
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On July 18 2015 12:13 Half the Sky wrote:
If any scummer is fake claiming the real DT claims. Straightforward.
Alright. I am the real cop, TJH is fakeclaiming. I checked MD and TT in that order, both are town.
So right now we have:
TT and MD, confirmed town due to cop checks.
HtS, n00b, Fidei, almost certainly town due to day 1 actions. With MD being town, it's extremely unlikely that any of these are mafia.
SW, almost certainly town as well. If he is actually mafia, TJH's fake red check is pretty much suicide. I don't see how this makes sense from a mafias perspective. If there is no counterclaim, and mafia fails to nk/rb the cop, town autowins.
TJH, fakeclaiming, confirmed mafia.
That means the remaining mafia is either scott or WP. If TJH flips roleblocker I could check either of these the next night with medic protection.
So my suggestion is: We lynch TJH now. He flips mafia, which confirms, me, MD and TT as town. If he is the roleblocker, I check either scott or WP. If the check returns green we lynch the one I didn't check.
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And now things get even more interesting...
*Swaps vote back to TJ
On July 18 2015 13:49 Grokken wrote:
If he is the roleblocker, I check either scott or WP. If the check returns green we lynch the one I didn't check.
I had totally forgotten the possibility of catching the Mafia RB here which would basically make this game over.
TJ flips red, I bet Scott is the last mafia.
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On July 18 2015 07:28 Tictock wrote:
Yea, I'd shoot scott.
Between the 2 of them SW has actually engaged in the thread a little. Scott has only dropped in to make a post or two then buggered off, there is zero evidence of his reads evolving based on the game, where as SW actually put some effort into his large post about Ghandi and had pinged him out before that case.
Assuming the follow up question is why I am voting SW over scott...
There is no follow up question. The correct answer to the game was "no."
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On July 18 2015 10:23 TJHuggins wrote:
You guys are all terrible. I am the cop. I have a town check on MoosyDoosy and a mafia check on silentwarrior. it should have been obvious to everyone from the night that i am cop.
It's been obvious to me ever since you refused to share your "essential information" by the end of Night 2, that your use of the phrase "essential information" meant you intended to FAKE-claim Cop. But you should have made your fake-claim at the end of Night 2, instead of waiting until Day 3. The only way holding off on your fake-claim is better is if you manage to kill the Cop during Night 2. Then you pretend that your "essential information" had nothing to do with a blue role (even though it virtually has to. Which is why I said you "medium claimed" a blue role more than "soft claimed" one.) In all other scenarios, you were better off making the fake-claim earlier than you made it.
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I also want to point out that if we lynch TJH and he flips cop, you know for certain that I and SW are the last 2 mafia, and town wins. It's a win-win situation.
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On July 18 2015 12:28 Onegu wrote: Day 3 Vote Count TJHuggins(2): silentwarrior, Fidei86 silentwarrior(5): MoosyDoosy, Half the Sky,Ticktock, TJHuggins, Noobking Not Voting(3):,Grokken, WonnaPlay, scott31337
This vote count is wrong. I did not move my vote from TJHuggins to silentwarrior. You would have needed a forklift to get my vote off of TJHuggins.
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On July 18 2015 14:09 Grokken wrote:
I also want to point out that if we lynch TJH and he flips cop, you know for certain that I and SW are the last 2 mafia, and town wins. It's a win-win situation.
Yeah, don't worry, you're fine. We're not lynching you, we're lynching TJ. And he's not flipping Cop, he's flipped Red.
On page 33 I gave:
6 REASONS TO THINK GROKKEN IS TOWN
and
9 REASONS TO THINK TJHUGGINS IS SCUM
So having the two of you in a counterclaim situation couldn't be much simpler for me.
But yes, like you said, even if the scum team actually WERE to be you and silentwarrior, this play from you would still be suicide. You would have had silentwarrior make the counterclaim against TJ, instead of you doing it.
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On July 18 2015 11:18 Half the Sky wrote:
Additionally TJH ninja voting would be justified if he had a red check. Plus scum are a man down already and a NK down already so it'd make no sense for him to trade himself in 1 for 1 if he were scum.
It's better than trading himself off 1 for 0, which is what he appeared to be headed toward. If his fake claim gets even ONE mislynch before he goes down, instead of him just being the lynch today, that's at least a LITTLE improvement.
And even if the real Cop counterclaims and we pick the right one (as we are going to) it at least outs the Cop for them, so that if the remaining Mafia member is the roleblocker, the Cop will be nullified from now on.
I think it makes sense for TJ to go ahead and make this fake claim. And I think it's exactly what he had in mind, way back when he first made mention of his "essential information."
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Hey SCOTT: Were you roleblocked last night?
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On July 18 2015 14:24 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 11:18 Half the Sky wrote:
Additionally TJH ninja voting would be justified if he had a red check. Plus scum are a man down already and a NK down already so it'd make no sense for him to trade himself in 1 for 1 if he were scum. It's better than trading himself off 1 for 0, which is what he appeared to be headed toward. If his fake claim gets even ONE mislynch before he goes down, instead of him just being the lynch today, that's at least a LITTLE improvement. And even if the real Cop counterclaims and we pick the right one (as we are going to) it at least outs the Cop for them, so that if the remaining Mafia member is the roleblocker, the Cop will be nullified from now on. I think it makes sense for TJ to go ahead and make this fake claim. And I think it's exactly what he had in mind, way back when he first made mention of his "essential information."
Yeah this makes me think TJ is the goon and not the roleblocker.
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I guess it's funny now, to think about how I spent half of Night 2 trying to convince the Cop not to use his ability on Grokken.
: \
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WP, do you think scott is mafia?
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Not sure why I'm even asking, seems like the only way we can lose now is if HtS/n00b/Fidei is the last mafia, which is unlikely to say the least.
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Wow okay. Nice job team. I think Grokken's claim makes total sense. He actually fits the classic blue mould - has tried to offer his thoughts but hasn't been as open and uncaring as a VT would be. I believe Grokken.
Also, with that, it means that I was totally wrong on my TT read. Sorry buddy :-(
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On July 18 2015 09:13 MoosyDoosy wrote:
@Half the Sky, what do you think of Fidei86 vs Tictock? I'm interested in your opinion on it. I would ask n00bKing but I trust your reads more while I trust n00bKing more for his association cases.
If you'd been through Holy Guardians, you'd be terrified of TickTock too. He literally was like Teflon that day. Think Holyflare, but without all of the emo stuff that HF pulls.
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Hey Grokken, just one question, why did you check TT over TJH?
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Day 3 Vote Count
TJHuggins(5): n00bKing, Fidei86, silentwarrior, Tictock, Grokken
silentwarrior(3): TJHuggins, MoosyDoosy, Half the Sky
Not Voting(2): WonnaPlay, scott31337
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently silentwarrior is set to be lynched with 6 votes.
Day 3 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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On July 18 2015 17:43 Fidei86 wrote:
Hey Grokken, just one question, why did you check TT over TJH?
I figured he would likely get lynched anyway. Knowing the alignment of someone who's dead doesnt help much.
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That makes perfect sense, and it's what I was thinking too.
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I think the last Mafia is Silent Warrior. Here is my reasoning:
1. The circumstances of TJH's claim are just utterly bullshit. He is universally read as scum, but doesn't claim as soon as he has his red check after N2. I don't think there's any way that we would believe him over the inevitable counter claimer, and he can't of thought we would either.
2. However, there has to be some pretty serious panic in the scum team. With Grokken green checking MD and TT, and with me, n00b and HTS all pretty likely to be town, they had to make a play. The claim alone isn't the play here. They need a way to buy some serious town cred, and the only way for them to do that is to have TJH attempt to bus his partner. They were hoping that people would conclude that SW was almost certainly town. That has already worked a little bit.
3. If, for some strange reason, we actually had believed TJH's claim, then he would be pretty well confirmed cop. We'd then lynch the cop. Yes, at that point TJH is in a bad place, but he would have had the chance to get two more NKs and hopefully get rid of town leaders who would be able to nail him to the mast.
It's pretty YOLO, but it's not like scum have many avenues left. If our TJH lynch is correct, we could basically just lynch all of the non-town circle in order and still win.
That, and TT's case on SW was good and now that I know he's town we know he has no other agenda.
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Okay, I'm now 100% convinced that SW is the final mafia.
Looking at the evolution of his reads, it's totally bogus. He solo votes on NHM N1. He then town reads TJH for putting Sulfurs second on his scum list, but as discussed, that's actually a massively scummy thing to do. The crucial part, next, is that he does this massive big long post on Ghandi, presumably in order to make sure that town stays on the GE wagon. He doesn't say ANYTHING else about TJH at all. But then, with literally no explanation, he moves TJH down into his 'scum' category, despite TJH having said basically nothing between SW's first read of him as town and then.
I couldn't have solved this game without the following people:
HTS - so glad I was town with you. I think if you had rolled scum, it would have been GG.
n00b - I won't eff with you I promise
Grokken - Bro, you did a nice job as cop, checking exactly the right people and trying to help town without making yourself a target for NK. Props. I'm very impressed. You've got a bright future here.
TT - Buddy, what can I say. I'm sorry about the things I said yesterday. You were the first one on the SW wagon, and without you this wouldn't have been possible.
TL;DR If I can see this far, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants.
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Finally, what's the over/under on the number of posts in the mafia QT. I'm going to say 15.
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Oh, wow. A lot happened while I was gone. First, really disappointed that you guys actually believed TJH. You didn't find it convenient that the guy who is set to be lynched with the most votes by far is dt and has red check on next likely lynch? And he dosen't claim until it is evident that he will be lynched? Still can't believe you guys did that.
Btw, thx grokken for claiming to save me.
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… Lol.
Lol.
If anyone actually needs me to explain why that thread re-entry is 100% mafia, then I will. But I think you're all smart enough to figure it out for yourselves.
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On July 18 2015 19:36 Fidei86 wrote:
Okay, I'm now 100% convinced that SW is the final mafia.
Looking at the evolution of his reads, it's totally bogus. He solo votes on NHM N1. He then town reads TJH for putting Sulfurs second on his scum list, but as discussed, that's actually a massively scummy thing to do. The crucial part, next, is that he does this massive big long post on Ghandi, presumably in order to make sure that town stays on the GE wagon. He doesn't say ANYTHING else about TJH at all. But then, with literally no explanation, he moves TJH down into his 'scum' category, despite TJH having said basically nothing between SW's first read of him as town and then.
I couldn't have solved this game without the following people:
HTS - so glad I was town with you. I think if you had rolled scum, it would have been GG.
n00b - I won't eff with you I promise
Grokken - Bro, you did a nice job as cop, checking exactly the right people and trying to help town without making yourself a target for NK. Props. I'm very impressed. You've got a bright future here.
TT - Buddy, what can I say. I'm sorry about the things I said yesterday. You were the first one on the SW wagon, and without you this wouldn't have been possible.
TL;DR If I can see this far, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants.
All of this has already been stated by TT, and I have already answered all of this.
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Your answer wasn't sufficient. You said that you had answered it. I assume you're talking about the post where you kick around the argument that TJH was actually seriously scummy for what he posted re Sulfurus, but you hardly reached a conclusion. It reads to me, with the knowledge we have now, that you were caught trying to back your mafia buddy and didn't want to bus him but also wanted to distance yourself from him.
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On July 18 2015 19:54 Fidei86 wrote:
Your answer wasn't sufficient. You said that you had answered it. I assume you're talking about the post where you kick around the argument that TJH was actually seriously scummy for what he posted re Sulfurus, but you hardly reached a conclusion. It reads to me, with the knowledge we have now, that you were caught trying to back your mafia buddy and didn't want to bus him but also wanted to distance yourself from him.
Have no good answer for that, and could have easily been that. All I can say is that I didn't understand the tactic TJH used. What I did after sulfurus flipped mafia was go trough the whole thread and see who said anything negative about him before he was lynched. I figured anyone that said anything bad would probably not be mafia. These were Grokken and TJH, and I wrote as much after d1 lynch. I did however also write that TJH wrote about sulfurus after sulf was tagged, which diminishes the town cred he gets for it.
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On July 18 2015 19:45 silentwarrior wrote:
Oh, wow. A lot happened while I was gone. First, really disappointed that you guys actually believed TJH. You didn't find it convenient that the guy who is set to be lynched with the most votes by far is dt and has red check on next likely lynch? And he dosen't claim until it is evident that he will be lynched? Still can't believe you guys did that.
Btw, thx grokken for claiming to save me.
Okay, I just can't restrain myself from making this post, because it's such a gimme:
1. This post is a total distortion of what happened. Nobody straight up believed TJH's claim. Lots of people (TT, for example) said that the claim was bullshit straight off. HOWEVER, if you don't have the necessary counter-claims, the correct play from town is to lynch the red check 100%. If the red check is off, you then lynch the false-cop. But you always lynch the target first, because then you don't run the risk of accidentally lynching your cop.
2. Nowhere in this post does SW express any actual claim to town. He berates town for believing TJH's claim, and he says thanks to Grokken, but he doesn't actually try and move the agenda forward or even hint that he might be town.
3. He's riled. Mafia get riled when they are close to being caught. They just can't help it. I've seen it time and time again, in real life mafia and in forum mafia.
4. Specifically, this is the first time that we've seen SW post this directly. Everything else has been pretty bland, but this has real fire to it.
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PS you can all call me James "Foolishness" Jones from now on. Boom.
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Lastly, I'm going on holiday in about an hour or so. I should have phone reception down there, but if I have any long periods of inactivity, it's because I'm on a boat or in a bar or something :-)
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On July 18 2015 20:05 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 19:45 silentwarrior wrote:
Oh, wow. A lot happened while I was gone. First, really disappointed that you guys actually believed TJH. You didn't find it convenient that the guy who is set to be lynched with the most votes by far is dt and has red check on next likely lynch? And he dosen't claim until it is evident that he will be lynched? Still can't believe you guys did that.
Btw, thx grokken for claiming to save me. Okay, I just can't restrain myself from making this post, because it's such a gimme: 1. This post is a total distortion of what happened. Nobody straight up believed TJH's claim. Lots of people (TT, for example) said that the claim was bullshit straight off. HOWEVER, if you don't have the necessary counter-claims, the correct play from town is to lynch the red check 100%. If the red check is off, you then lynch the false-cop. But you always lynch the target first, because then you don't run the risk of accidentally lynching your cop. 2. Nowhere in this post does SW express any actual claim to town. He berates town for believing TJH's claim, and he says thanks to Grokken, but he doesn't actually try and move the agenda forward or even hint that he might be town. 3. He's riled. Mafia get riled when they are close to being caught. They just can't help it. I've seen it time and time again, in real life mafia and in forum mafia. 4. Specifically, this is the first time that we've seen SW post this directly. Everything else has been pretty bland, but this has real fire to it.
1. So what, Im supposed to roll over and just accept that a mafia is trying to lynch me? The reasons for my dissappointment is that you all believed a mafia claiming he was dt and acusing me of red.
2. Ok, so apparently fidei is so stupid that he dosen't realise that mafia can also write "I am town", and me writing it means nothing. But just so that this can also be answered, I AM TOWN!!!!
3. I got riled because a mafia claimed dt and said i was red, and the whole town seemed to believe him and switched their vote to me.
4. Fire how? You mean emotional? Because this is a game of logic, and emotions shouldn't be used, logic should. That way bland is better than fire.
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I mean, it probably doesn't need to be said again, but I might as well:
I don't think anyone came out and said they straight up believed TJH's claim. Lots of people displayed skepticism. N00b said that he wouldn't have moved his vote anyway. HOWEVER, as I explained above, good town players should absolutely move their votes onto the cop claimer's red check, as you get the same amount of information as you would if you lynched the cop, but without running the risk of actually lynching the cop. The situation obviously then changes if you get a counter-claim. Here we have a very believable counter-claim coming from Grokken, who plenty of people have been reading as town.
Also, everyone is going to move to TJH if they haven't already - we know that HTS is offline and she'll switch 100% when she gets back. So there was no need for you to be angry at all. The fact that you are/were is a massive scum tell, in my opinion.
Please don't take this personally - I know that Mafia is a game of lying. Next time maybe you'll roll town, and you can put everything you've learned from being Mafia this game towards being a good town next game.
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On July 18 2015 20:26 Fidei86 wrote:
I mean, it probably doesn't need to be said again, but I might as well:
I don't think anyone came out and said they straight up believed TJH's claim. Lots of people displayed skepticism. N00b said that he wouldn't have moved his vote anyway. HOWEVER, as I explained above, good town players should absolutely move their votes onto the cop claimer's red check, as you get the same amount of information as you would if you lynched the cop, but without running the risk of actually lynching the cop. The situation obviously then changes if you get a counter-claim. Here we have a very believable counter-claim coming from Grokken, who plenty of people have been reading as town.
Also, everyone is going to move to TJH if they haven't already - we know that HTS is offline and she'll switch 100% when she gets back. So there was no need for you to be angry at all. The fact that you are/were is a massive scum tell, in my opinion.
Please don't take this personally - I know that Mafia is a game of lying. Next time maybe you'll roll town, and you can put everything you've learned from being Mafia this game towards being a good town next game.
Yes, I get that it would be better for town. But knowing about it makes you kind of emotional, and since I knew I was town and he was mafia, it became kind of emotional.
Didn't really get angry, just kind of disappointed. As I said, when you are the one being targetted for a fake dt claim, you would be.
Don't really take it personally, know you are trying to find scum just like me. But please try to have less of a tunnel vision. You said I was 100% mafia, to the point were you actually made after game comments, before I had even reacted to any of it.
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One thing about being town that I have learned is that it's not enough to have amazing judgement, you also need to get everyone else to vote for your scum reads. Sometimes it's enough to make a strong case, but in my view it's more persuasive when you demonstrate utter conviction. Mafia don't want to do that, because it leaves them in a pickle if they need to go a different way later on.
I'm convinced that I've now nailed the scum team (well, HTS was first on TJH and TT was first on you). So I need everyone to follow me. And hopefully my posting the way I have will show people just how sure I am.
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Also for the post game cred.
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I am here. Grabbing coffee.
Vote is going back on TJH.
James enjoy your holiday but I think you are wrong on SW. <3
I also think Tictock is wrong on Scott.
The VCA exonerates Scott as he afk voted and pre-hammered a Mafia assuming TJH flips red. The vote was highly contested at the time Scott voted.
WonnaPlay hammered after setting himself up to vote TJH and if both are scum could have been communicated in the scum qt.
And even I said even if SW isn't making great posts, newbie scum rarely if ever put in the amount of effort that he has.
If SW isn't scum, Wonna is the final one.
Just my opinion.
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On July 18 2015 20:07 Fidei86 wrote:
PS you can all call me James "Foolishness" Jones from now on. Boom.
I have no idea if you're serious, but if you are, these are probably the most stacked teams ever.
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James is probably messing with us. He is probably the last Mafia.
/tinfoil
(Yes Fidei's name is actually James...I play Dota too much with him. <3 Maybe you can join us too Grokken if you don't mind 3k scrubs )
Teams being stacked is very possible. Teams are RNGed by most hosts. Skill is irrelevant.
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I don't think it makes sense for SW to get worked up about getting fake red checked, since I already counterclaimed. It's obvious that we're lynching TJH and not him. I'm not sure if that's enough reason for me to think he is mafia though. It would be very risky for TJH to fake a red check on SW because:
1. If the real cop waits until the next day to counterclaim, mafia loses.
2. If the real cop has already checked SW, mafia loses.
It's still not impossible of course, seeing how the mafia is in a terrible spot. You have to take risks when youre behind.
I was actually hesitating to counter claim. I didn't have a check on SW, so I didn't actually know if he was mafia or not. If he was town, I wouldn't have to counter claim at all, since town would figure out TJH is mafia after the mislynch. I would also get another check without risking a roleblock. The only way this would be bad is if I get night killed, but I don't think I was a high prio target for the mafia with the way I was posting. In the end I went with the safer play. Even after claiming, the only way we lose is if HtS, n00b, or Fidei is the last mafia. No need to go for the risky win when you can go for the safe win.
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On July 18 2015 22:17 Half the Sky wrote:James is probably messing with us. He is probably the last Mafia. /tinfoil (Yes Fidei's name is actually James...I play Dota too much with him. <3 Maybe you can join us too Grokken if you don't mind 3k scrubs ) Teams being stacked is very possible. Teams are RNGed by most hosts. Skill is irrelevant.
Sure. I play with friends who are 3k all the time, it doesn't really bother me.
I know teams are random, but damn did we get lucky with the RNG. Not only did we get a bunch of strong players on the same team, we also managed to lynch the GF day one and confirm you as town (although I guess the lynch on Sulfurus was just as much skill as luck).
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On July 18 2015 22:11 Grokken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 20:07 Fidei86 wrote:
PS you can all call me James "Foolishness" Jones from now on. Boom. I have no idea if you're serious, but if you are, these are probably the most stacked teams ever.
<3
The fact that you would even entertain the fact that I might be Foolishness is a massive compliment.
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Dang...I was about to say TJ's cop play was too abysmal and we should look into if he's actually cop because of the way he seemed to intend to show he was cop but I guess it's fine the way it is now. I hate changing my vote so many times but here's my faith in you n00bKing. Voted for TJ.
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On July 18 2015 22:39 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 22:11 Grokken wrote:On July 18 2015 20:07 Fidei86 wrote:
PS you can all call me James "Foolishness" Jones from now on. Boom. I have no idea if you're serious, but if you are, these are probably the most stacked teams ever. <3 The fact that you would even entertain the fact that I might be Foolishness is a massive compliment.
You're welcome, I guess. I've never played with Foolishness though, I just heard he was good at mafia. Also english is not my first language and i misinterpreted what you said. I was kind of confused at first and thought you were a smurf account or something. But then I realized you were just using his name cause he is good at mafia. Kinda like calling yourself James "Dendi" Jones to say you're good at dota
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I haven't rolled Mafia yet. I'm kind of concerned that if/when I do it will be blindingly obvious to HTS and others.
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On July 18 2015 22:51 Grokken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 22:39 Fidei86 wrote:On July 18 2015 22:11 Grokken wrote:On July 18 2015 20:07 Fidei86 wrote:
PS you can all call me James "Foolishness" Jones from now on. Boom. I have no idea if you're serious, but if you are, these are probably the most stacked teams ever. <3 The fact that you would even entertain the fact that I might be Foolishness is a massive compliment. You're welcome, I guess. I've never played with Foolishness though, I just heard he was good at mafia. Also english is not my first language and i misinterpreted what you said. I was kind of confused at first and thought you were a smurf account or something. But then I realized you were just using his name cause he is good at mafia. Kinda like calling yourself James "Dendi" Jones to say you're good at dota
I play 4 position support. They call me James "Aui" Jones in Dota circles.
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On July 18 2015 22:48 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Dang...I was about to say TJ's cop play was too abysmal and we should look into if he's actually cop because of the way he seemed to intend to show he was cop but I guess it's fine the way it is now. I hate changing my vote so many times but here's my faith in you n00bKing. Voted for TJ.
You don't need any faith though. Actually it would be better for town if TJH flips cop, because that would confirm me and SW as the last 2 mafia .
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I suddenly feel a lot less hesistant to post. Maybe it's because I don't have to worry about when to claim, maybe it's because I don't have to worry about anyone scumreading me.
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On July 18 2015 22:26 Grokken wrote:
I don't think it makes sense for SW to get worked up about getting fake red checked, since I already counterclaimed. It's obvious that we're lynching TJH and not him. I'm not sure if that's enough reason for me to think he is mafia though. It would be very risky for TJH to fake a red check on SW because:
1. If the real cop waits until the next day to counterclaim, mafia loses.
2. If the real cop has already checked SW, mafia loses.
It's still not impossible of course, seeing how the mafia is in a terrible spot. You have to take risks when youre behind.
I was actually hesitating to counter claim. I didn't have a check on SW, so I didn't actually know if he was mafia or not. If he was town, I wouldn't have to counter claim at all, since town would figure out TJH is mafia after the mislynch. I would also get another check without risking a roleblock. The only way this would be bad is if I get night killed, but I don't think I was a high prio target for the mafia with the way I was posting. In the end I went with the safer play. Even after claiming, the only way we lose is if HtS, n00b, or Fidei is the last mafia. No need to go for the risky win when you can go for the safe win.
OR.......just go ahead and check silentwarrior during night time! Then we know if he's telling the truth or not.
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On July 18 2015 22:58 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 22:26 Grokken wrote:
I don't think it makes sense for SW to get worked up about getting fake red checked, since I already counterclaimed. It's obvious that we're lynching TJH and not him. I'm not sure if that's enough reason for me to think he is mafia though. It would be very risky for TJH to fake a red check on SW because:
1. If the real cop waits until the next day to counterclaim, mafia loses.
2. If the real cop has already checked SW, mafia loses.
It's still not impossible of course, seeing how the mafia is in a terrible spot. You have to take risks when youre behind.
I was actually hesitating to counter claim. I didn't have a check on SW, so I didn't actually know if he was mafia or not. If he was town, I wouldn't have to counter claim at all, since town would figure out TJH is mafia after the mislynch. I would also get another check without risking a roleblock. The only way this would be bad is if I get night killed, but I don't think I was a high prio target for the mafia with the way I was posting. In the end I went with the safer play. Even after claiming, the only way we lose is if HtS, n00b, or Fidei is the last mafia. No need to go for the risky win when you can go for the safe win. OR.......just go ahead and check silentwarrior during night time! Then we know if he's telling the truth or not.
I can do that if TJH flips roleblocker. If he flips goon the last mafia will roleblock me.
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Btw, who got roleblocked? Was it scott or wonnaplay?
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I dunno. Mafia may have held it? That doesn't make sense though - they might as well put it on HTS again if they were scared of confirming someone town? But if they were going to hold it, it would also make sense for the Mafia to claim they were roleblocked. I looked at the rules again and I'm pretty sure that the target does get notified.
It's a mystery.
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On July 19 2015 00:37 silentwarrior wrote:
Btw, who got roleblocked? Was it scott or wonnaplay?
Wonna said no so it's gotta be scott. Judging how much he's been afk I'm not surprised if we only find out until this game ends.
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EOD is at midnight for me while I'm en France. Shenanigans seem unlikely this evening, but I'll do my best to stay up anyway.
As Scott would say, don't worry boys, this wagon is hitting Mafia for sure!
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On July 18 2015 22:17 Half the Sky wrote:James is probably messing with us. He is probably the last Mafia. /tinfoil (Yes Fidei's name is actually James...I play Dota too much with him. <3 Maybe you can join us too Grokken if you don't mind 3k scrubs ) Teams being stacked is very possible. Teams are RNGed by most hosts. Skill is irrelevant.
100% This.
I've been having the same tinfoil theory.
It's pretty simple, of all the people on the Sulf wagon D1 Fidei is easily the most likely to be Mafia bussing. There are 3 solid reasons for it, then some WIFOM evidence from Fidei's reaction here recently.
1) I brought this point up a long time ago, and I always thought it was interesting how much Fidei has fought me on it. Fidei was ignoring Sulf for the majority of D1 and only appears in his filter after n00b points him out, he places his vote only after n00b and HtS are clearly moving to lynch Sulf. Semi-WIFOM scum reasoning here: + Show Spoiler +Scum!Fidei is absolutly smart enough to see that n00b and HtS are strong town players and that Sulf is being pushed hard, plus at the time that he joins the wagon there wasn't too much danger that it would go through (we also have the MD self vote stuff going on). In the event that the Sulf wagon does gain steam then Fidei has gotten massive towncred for being on that wagon which is perfect for him. Sheeping 2 strong town like this is a solid move for scum when you see they have a good case on your teammate.
2) I see pretty much no way that n00b or HtS can be scum. Most of this is from a couple of their posts where they mind melded so well. They each posted longish posts about more or less the same thing within minuets of each other. If we didnt have one confirmed scum outside HtS/n00b/Fidei I would be worried about a world where both are scum, but since only one of those 3 could possibly be scum here I think these posts strongly support HtS ad n00b being town (sorry not looking up the exact posts right now, maybe later).
Also it seems unlikely still that n00b or HtS would actively try to Bus Sulf on D1, much more likely scum move is to jump on a newly formed and fairly strong looking wagon that happens to be a bus than to start that wagon yourself.
3) This point is a bit WIFOM and I'm going to pack a couple of thoughts into one point here so bear with me a little.
Fidei more or less drops off after D1. Having gotten pretty solid towncred he would not feel like he needs to do much anymore. Still what he does do D2 is largely push Ghandi. Fidei gives a read on TJ where he agree's with HtS but thats all he says.
I dont have the time to do much checking right now, but someone should dig through Fidei's filter and see how he's been reading TJ and how that read changes. I'm willing to bet that TJ is hardly mentioned at all.
Also, anyone remember this?
On July 17 2015 06:18 Fidei86 wrote:
The TJH lynch has been explained at length, and it's almost certainly the correct one. I stopped recording points on him when I got to #7. Also, whereas Ghandi was still trying to solve the game all of D2, TJH did nothing constructive at all.
I called Fidei out since he claimed to have a bunch of reasons why TJ was scum, but never shared them. He had made 7 points about Ghandi D2 though... When asked about this, here is Fidei's reply.
On July 18 2015 02:08 Fidei86 wrote:
Also, re my seven points on TJH, I actually did write them down on a piece of paper. Stupidly I didn't bring it when I left the office. However, the one that hasn't been said before I don't think is that in his first post he said he was an incredibly strong player and liked to pick up on and tunnel on small logical inconsistencies. He was right, he did nitpick at Grokken's first post and at my getting a bit shirty with Moosy. But when it came to it, he didn't take either of those reads anywhere and he basically coasted through D1.
Oh, and something I just thought of - HTS' case on Sulfurus was incredibly strong. I'm ashamed of myself now for not spotting what she did, because it was incredibly chronic. I really need to go back to D1 and look at who had the chance to read and consider the wagon, but decided to go elsewhere. Because either they are misguided town or scum.
4) This one is a bit Ironic to me. Fidei accused me of this earlier...
On July 18 2015 02:02 Fidei86 wrote:
Overall I would describe your posting as going at 100kph in a 40kph zone. You're shifting your reads on AFK players based on tiny shreds of evidence, or on nothing at all. You also were "reluctant" to town read me at first for no real reason, then you later moved on to say that the entire Sulfurus wagon was pure, again with no new evidence whatsoever.
This was more or less Fidei's thinking on why I could be scum as well.
The funny thing here... this is exactly how Fidei has been acting since Grok claimed and made this post...
On July 18 2015 14:57 Grokken wrote:
Not sure why I'm even asking, seems like the only way we can lose now is if HtS/n00b/Fidei is the last mafia, which is unlikely to say the least.
Fidei is suddenly all over SW. I know he had mentioned him before so it's not a read change or anything but he was mildly supporting the idea and now has it kicked into high gear. That tone is fairly prevalent in all of Fidei's posts after Grok suggested one of HtS/n00b/Fidei possibly being mafia.
While it is completely possible that TJ was trying to distance himself from SW if they are indeed scum mates this doesn't add up very well. Like in that world TJ would have to be planning to somehow survive the game after claiming cop and getting his partner lynched. That just doesn't add up, no way does TJ survive into LyLo after claiming, just the idea of Mafia not picking him off seems absurd unless somehow Medi survives into 3 man LyLo as well. Super risky scum play there...
Conclusion: Fidei is very likely Mafia here.
Thankfully Town now has plenty of intel that I think this is an easily won game. We simply PoE out anyone still under suspicion , starting with Fidei > Scott > SW > WP.
Main point here, don't let Fidei survive till LyLo/MyLo and similarly pick lynch targets with this in mind.
/Game
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This might be a bit premature since we don't have a flip yet, but can somebody check Fidei's filter for his read evolution on TJ?
I touched on it, but my case was a little thrown together. Wont have time to do all the proper leg-work till sometime D4.
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On July 18 2015 19:36 Fidei86 wrote:
I couldn't have solved this game without the following people:
HTS - so glad I was town with you. I think if you had rolled scum, it would have been GG.
n00b - I won't eff with you I promise
Grokken - Bro, you did a nice job as cop, checking exactly the right people and trying to help town without making yourself a target for NK. Props. I'm very impressed. You've got a bright future here.
TT - Buddy, what can I say. I'm sorry about the things I said yesterday. You were the first one on the SW wagon, and without you this wouldn't have been possible.
TL;DR If I can see this far, it is because I stand on the shoulders of giants.
Cute post. Especially the bit about me.
I honestly don't see what I made possible at all here. HtS and n00b got Sulf D1, and today would have likely played out exactly the same with or without me.
All I've done is provided SW as an alternative Mislynch target is he is in fact town.
I'm not egotistical enough to not see that I've largely flailed around a lot of this game.
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Oh I forgot I was gonna make a point in my case on Fidei about this...
On July 13 2015 22:07 Fidei86 wrote:Also, I think this is probably worth saying - if there is a medic, they should 100% try and save HTS this evening. She is probably the most town-read person (maybe along side me), but given that she just nailed Sulfurus in one post, I definitely think she's towns biggest asset right now. She's definitely smarter than me, anyway
It's not much, and again kinda WIFOM.
This was Fidei's only suggested night action N1, if he wanted to make a suggestion why single out a Medic save?
Think about that from a town and scum mindset...
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Tictock can we point out that I basically said the same thing before both n00bKing and Half the Sky but in a shorter list form? Thanks. I'll read over what you said and look at Fidei's filter.
Also @Half the Sky, please give me thoughts on Fidei vs Tictock that happened a couple pages back. I'm sorry if I didn't catch your response but I believe you never did give one.
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I agree that if either HtS, Fidei, or n00b is mafia, Fidei is by far the most likely. However there are still reasons to think that he is town based on the day 1 voting. I'm not sure I agree with lynching him over scott/WP at this point.
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So much depends on whether TJ flips roleblocker or goon.
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On July 18 2015 19:36 Fidei86 wrote:Okay, I'm now 100% convinced that SW is the final mafia.
For me, I wouldn't say 100%. He would be my first guess, but I wouldn't bet the house on it. Ticktock and HtS seem to be going in different directions from us, so we might have some work to do to convince them. (They are also going in different directions from each other though, so at least we have a majority right now. lol)
This is from Page 32, and is still most of the reason for why I think silentwarrior could be scum, and why I think TJ flipping Red makes it a bit more likely that silentwarrior is scum:
+ Show Spoiler +It was me that hypothesized that maybe silentwarrior didn't comment on Sulfurus because there just wasn't much in Sulf's filter to work with. But "not much in the filter to work with" didn't stop silentwarrior from voting against NHM.
As silentwarrior mentioned, I hadn't moved off of NHM yet when he casts that vote. So if the tide turns against NHM and he gets lynched and flips green, SW can at least say that his responsibility for NHM's death is not as great as mine.
If the scum team were to be Sulfurus/TJHuggins/silentwarrior, then SW's reason to be looking for some random place to toss his vote is fairly straightforward. TJ and Sulf had already voted against Moosy. So maybe SW would want to vote elsewhere, just to keep them from all following the same blueprint. Once the push on Sulfurus gets going, and we have a Sulf vs. Moosy race, which one can silentwarrior reasonably choose in that situation? Again, he doesn't really want to vote against Moosy, when both of his teammates are already there. But he doesn't really want to vote Sulfurus, and get the Godfather lynched on Day 1. So he sits tight and hopes the Moosy lynch will go through (all the more likely, if the Scum team was thinking that Moosy's self-vote actually counted). By the time I drop the hammer on Sulfurus, there are only 12 minutes left in the Day. And there were only 4 minutes left in the Day by the time the vote count is clarified by the Mods, making it absolutely clear that my vote on Sulfurus DID drop the hammer on him. Too late for the scum team to get Moosy back in the lead, even if silentwarrior was around (and not legitimately afk).
This "association case" against TJ/silentwarrior is not spectacularly strong. But I do think SW choosing to vote against NHM is a point against him, based on what the explanation would be for him to never say anything about Sulfurus, and based on how I can reason out a motivation for him to vote there, if he's Scum.
As for you setting the over/under for number of posts in the scum thread at 15...I think I'll take the over.
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On July 18 2015 22:11 Grokken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2015 20:07 Fidei86 wrote:
PS you can all call me James "Foolishness" Jones from now on. Boom. I have no idea if you're serious, but if you are, these are probably the most stacked teams ever.
Heh, I don't think Foolishness would be eligible for a Newbie slot.
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n00bKing wrote:
Hey SCOTT: Were you roleblocked last night?
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On July 19 2015 02:54 Tictock wrote:
Conclusion: Fidei is very likely Mafia here.
Meh. If Fidei were the last Mafia, I don't see him needing to say that he is "100%" about silentwarrior, and then start launching into post-game discussion. Why does he need to push so hard for silentwarrior, as opposed to letting the next lynch fall on WonnaPlay or Scott? He could have made his exact same points against silentwarrior without any of the "100%" talk. And based on my earlier comments about silentwarrior, he can expect that I would probably join in. Jumping from "I think SW is the last mafia" to "I'm 100% sure" and talking post-game will just draw added attention to himself if silentwarrior were to flip Green. Because his comments will have been so memorable.
He'd be using WIFOM to try and ward off the extra attention, and doing it just to get a result that doesn't really benefit him that much (the lynch of silentwarrior, as opposed to any other mislynch).
So I'm not really seeing it. Lynch Fidei before HtS, before Grokken, and before Moosy? Okay. Lynch Fidei before silentwarrior or WonnaPlay? Not really that interested.
Like Moosy says, seeing what role TJ flips as is important. If he's the Goon, it probably doesn't matter who we would like Grokken to check. But if TJ is the roleblocker, and Night discussion points toward Grokken checking the Goon, then we might actually get a concession before Day 4 ever starts.
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Day 3 Vote Count
TJHuggins(8): silentwarrior, Fidei86, Ticktock, Grokken, MoosyDoosy, Half the Sky, scott31337, N00bking
silentwarrior(2): TJHuggins
Not Voting(1):WonnaPlay
Reminder Voting is done here.
It is mandatory to vote. Not doing so will result in a warning a second non vote will result in a modkill and action taken against you in the Mafia ban thread.
Currently TJHuggins is set to be lynched with 7 votes.
Day 3 ends in
PLEASE REMEMBER THAT IT IS MANDATORY TO VOTE.
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On July 19 2015 04:38 rsoultin wrote: Day 3 Vote Count TJHuggins(7): silentwarrior, Fidei86, Ticktock, Grokken, MoosyDoosy, Half the Sky, scott31337 silentwarrior(2): TJHuggins, Noobking, Not Voting(1):WonnaPlay
Still no.
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@TT It's late and I've been drinking, so I'll respond substantively tomorrow. For now, I'll just say that it's a great compliment that you think I'd be able to play scum this well after three games ever :-)
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Okay so I'm probably sober enough to deal with this. Plus I've nothing else to do until the flip as my family have all gone to bed.
I went back through the D1 filter and I've pulled together the following links with annotations that document the history of the Sulfurus lynch:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=11#211 - me on page 11 saying that Moosy was a fine lynch but that is rather lynch a lurker
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=13#255 -n00b on Sulfurus on page 13
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=13#257 - my response on page 13 ("I'm down with that")
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=14#279 - my post on page 14 just after Sulfurus' incriminating post but before HTS started the wagon saying I was going to vote for Moosy but preferred to lynch a lurker
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=15#283 - HTS' case on Sulfurus
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=15#290 - me 36 minutes later agreeing with HTS (and I put my vote on then)
I was happy to lynch Moosy because his play was ridiculous, but I'd clearly expressed a preference for lynching lurkers before n00b's case on Sulfurus, which was the first one I could find in the thread when I looked back just now. I didn't immediately move onto Sulfurus because not even n00b had, and he didn't really rally people to vote, I read his post more as "this is weird I want to draw attention to this". As soon as HTS made a case to lynch, and voted, I was more than down to follow. Yea, there was totally an element of sheep to what I did. I can't really argue with that. But I think that the sheep was consistent with the sentiment I had expressed before this started ("lynch all lurkers").
As to my D2 inactivity, the honest truth is that it was a combination of factors. Firstly, I was at work a lot (I'm a lawyer in London, and when I get home sometimes I just play dota and go to bed, rather than digesting the thread. Second, I was pretty sure Ghandi was Mafia (I think I got that wagon going, which I feel awful about) and so I was sort of phoning it in. Third, I was moderating a game of Mafia that my friends were playing over Whatsapp, which sucked up most of my non-work and non-Dota time.
Re my read on TJH, I recall that HTS made a post after eod 1 about TJH. At that stage I hadn't really paid much attention to TjH (I even town read him for his attack on Grokken). However, I remember thinking that his response to my questions about whether or not he was NHM's boyfriend were really weird, so I said I agreed with her and wanted to hear more. After that, though, I got tunnelled on Ghandi. By the time eod2 came around HTS and n00b, as well as lots of others, had made very compelling arguments on TJH. I probably should have typed up my seven point list, but I was still in the office and it was like 11pm and most of the arguments had already been made, so I just stuck the best and newest one I had in.
Re SW, I totally admit my read on him has been all over the place. From memory, I first pinged him for his horrible thread entry, then u town read him for his contributions, then you scum read him and I thought that what you'd said made sense, then I thought that maybe WP and SW were a team because they'd played so similarly, then I saw SW's response to the claim-counter claim bit and was convinced he was the final Mafia. I still am.
Those are my thoughts. Basically, for me to be scum, I would have had to realise that Sulfurus was going to get called out early AND that he was going to lurk and then breadcrumb moving off Moosy early, then jump second onto the wagon at a time when there were only two other people leaning on Sulf (KSC moved on to the auld wagon with the same little explanation that I did - is "I'm down"). But one thing that strikes me is that why would scum TJH, who, at that stage, was totally active, not bus as well? TJH stayed on Moosy and is about to pay the price. I hope that, if I were scum, I'd at least give my other scum buddy the same amazing insight I had and give him the chance to come with me. If you don't, you have to think that on Day 1 I basically decided that I was going to have to win the game all by myself. I'm just not that kind of person, honestly.
Hopefully this wasn't too rambling.
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I hope that TT and I don't become the new Holyflare and Rsoultin. And if we're going there, can I trade so I get Tina and TT gets Holyflare? :-)
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On July 19 2015 03:15 Tictock wrote:Oh I forgot I was gonna make a point in my case on Fidei about this... Show nested quote +On July 13 2015 22:07 Fidei86 wrote:Also, I think this is probably worth saying - if there is a medic, they should 100% try and save HTS this evening. She is probably the most town-read person (maybe along side me), but given that she just nailed Sulfurus in one post, I definitely think she's towns biggest asset right now. She's definitely smarter than me, anyway It's not much, and again kinda WIFOM. This was Fidei's only suggested night action N1, if he wanted to make a suggestion why single out a Medic save? Think about that from a town and scum mindset...
I mean, you're right. That's all I suggested. And I did it because I really really wanted HTS to stay in the game. I might be biased because I really like HTS and playing with her as town has been a pleasure, but I thought she had the best chance of solving the game.
I also did say that I didn't think people should be suggesting cop checks N1. I'm not certain that my arguments were right, and I'd like to hear your thoughts (mostly so if I roll cop in the future, I'll have a better sense of what I should be doing).
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EON2 hype people. Anyone else here to witness the flip?
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Uh I meant EOD3, obviously
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On July 19 2015 06:53 Fidei86 wrote:
EON2 hype people. Anyone else here to witness the flip?
Here to witness the flip. Now stop spamming. lol
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Endgame
TJHuggins the Mafia Goon Has been lynched.
WonnaPlay the Mafia Roleblocker Has been modkilled for failure to vote for the second time.
Half the Sky the Doctor Has been victorious.
Grokken the Cop Has been victorious.
Rest as Vanilla Town are victorious
Scum QT
Obs QT
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Dang. The first Mafia game was really hard. This second one was a bit too ez but the teams were stacked.
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On July 19 2015 03:39 n00bKing wrote:
As for you setting the over/under for number of posts in the scum thread at 15...I think I'll take the over.
I win! :D
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If TJ went with wonnaplays plan and wonnaplay voted the game would have been closer. TJ was RB and never claimed, he claimed cop instead.
@everyone please use your coaches. They are here for you to make you better so once you are finished with your newbie games you arent in way over your head.
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Dammit TT. If you'd held off on your post on me, I would have been universally town read for the entire game.
Still 3/3 on not getting mislynches boiz.
Apologies to all the people.i scum read. I particularly feel like a chump for calling my shot on SW and being wrong. Oh well.
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*mislynched. I've been on a few mislynches in my time.
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My coach was very busy with work (and another game, in which he was trying to avoid the noose) so my coaching QT was maybe 1/3 the size of the one from my last game.
But I certainly can't argue with how things turned out!
Thanks for the save on Night 2, Half the Sky. Darn Mafia guys, trying to kill me...and after they already killed me on Night 1 of my last game, too! Shame on them!
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On July 19 2015 07:06 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2015 03:39 n00bKing wrote:
As for you setting the over/under for number of posts in the scum thread at 15...I think I'll take the over. I win! :D
Did you minus all the posts from BlazingHand and Onegu/Tina? :-)
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Ez trap Day 1 = clear win for town
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On July 19 2015 07:18 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Ez trap Day 1 = clear win for town
jkjk I still suck.
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On July 19 2015 07:15 Fidei86 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2015 07:06 n00bKing wrote:On July 19 2015 03:39 n00bKing wrote:
As for you setting the over/under for number of posts in the scum thread at 15...I think I'll take the over. I win! :D Did you minus all the posts from BlazingHand and Onegu/Tina? :-)
26 posts by actual Mafia dudes!
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I vote HTS MVP for town.
Brb got to go gloat in the "why does town keep losing thread"
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On July 19 2015 07:24 Fidei86 wrote:
I vote HTS MVP for town.
Reasonable. Was a lot of help in getting Sulfurus lynched. And when she healed me on Night 2, I think it probably killed whatever motivation the scum team might have had left.
On July 19 2015 07:24 Fidei86 wrote:Brb got to go gloat in the "why does town keep losing thread"
lol, right. Just tell them to wait for one of the scum members to fly off the handle when his Mafia buddy gets lynched, and for the other one to get mod-killed. Easy!
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Bit different from Holy Guardians this one, Scott...
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On July 19 2015 07:28 n00bKing wrote:Reasonable. Was a lot of help in getting Sulfurus lynched. And when she healed me on Night 2, I think it probably killed whatever motivation the scum team might have had left. Show nested quote +On July 19 2015 07:24 Fidei86 wrote:Brb got to go gloat in the "why does town keep losing thread" lol, right. Just tell them to wait for one of the scum members to fly off the handle when his Mafia buddy gets lynched, and for the other one to get mod-killed. Easy!
As long as the ball gets smuggled over the line, I don't care how it gets there.
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GGs everyone.
Yes I saved n00b Night 2. *hugs n00b*
I also dispute being MVP but I appreciate the sentiment. Theres a reason scum aimed noob n2 he was more the threat.
I am of the mentality Mafia is a team game regardless of alignment and there was good play collectively.
And I knew if TJH was scum look at the votes n2...Scott afk voted TJH when it was contested so there was no way Scott was scum even though he lurked like crazy this game.
I had a feeling coaches were a bit underused this game....there were a lot basic questions being asked in game and I am just thinking "why aren't these people asking their coaches"...
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Also WP to his credit figured I was a blue role. Probably because I was talking setup spec too much. Oops, hehe.
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Stop with th humility, HTS, we all know what it feels like to get carried :-)
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Awww, I got a hug!
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
I was right on WP and voted scum
MVP
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On July 19 2015 07:06 Onegu wrote:
If TJ went with wonnaplays plan and wonnaplay voted the game would have been closer. TJ was RB and never claimed, he claimed cop instead.
@everyone please use your coaches. They are here for you to make you better so once you are finished with your newbie games you arent in way over your head.
This.
I wrote a 5 paragraph post for one of my coachees and never got an answer from him. You guys have no idea how coaches are helpful in this game, whoever he is.
I'm very upset I wasn't used
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^ I never used GlowingBear.
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Cool, i was hoping this game would be over after that flip, didn't expect it to end via modkill though.
GG everyone, sorry to Fidei and SW for pushing you guys as scum this past day.
I hadn't actually taken much time to properly read though WP's filter. Think I need to get much better at not letting myself get ahead of my reads. I tend to latch onto an idea and run with it wile ignoring other things.
Was probably a little overboard on how all over the place I was. Part of it was purposefully to stir the pot a little but a lot of it was just throwing out thoughts and ideas.
Town was pretty brutal this game with so many people being on point. I have to laugh at HtS being our Medic, she did great. Made herself look like the obvious medic save to the point where scum didn't even want to try to kill her for fear of that.
First time replacing into a game, kinda weird. Would have sucked had this game been more active as well, but pretty manageable here.
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Also both LS and myself have hosting opportunities open if anyone is interested in learning how to cohost. Send PMs to either of us if you are interested.
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If anyone wants to play DotA they can add me on steam, just search for Grokken, im the one with a japanese dude as the profile picture.
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Oof, Sorry everyone. I thought I had a lot more time on my hands, but this weekend got a little overwhelming.
I underestimated this game, it's pretty hard to keep by , even when this game was so "slow". I had a incredibly busy weekend and totally forgot about this. So I'm kinda sorry for ruining this game..
It was really fun though and I will obs some more games before I'll try again, so that I can make sure I'll be a bit more active.
It would've been better for me, had I not started out as scum. Reading/rereading into not knowing what to/how to post was tough haha. The town was also really strong due to our (my) day 1 fail, which kind of resulted in a powerfull town.
WP'd all and maybe untill sometime soon! I think this is also really good for the further development of my English
Ps.
I didn't trust KSC at all. Somehow it felt like he would sit back half the game and then claim something and solve the game. Hence the reason for his kill.
Some of Hts' posts litterally made my head spin.
Ghandi worst defense ever! haha
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What were the night actions?
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Mine -
Night 1 - save Fidei86
Night 2 - save noob - he was saved
Grokken's
Night 1 - check MD - green
Night 2 - check Tictock - green
Game ended D3
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
I'm looking for a cohost for a normal game I'll be running in a couple or a few weeks. Let me know if you're interested! working as a co-host is a great way to get involved in TL Mafia. You'll hang out with me and work on the setup, the fluff, the vote counts, and decisions related to managing the game! No experienced necessary.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://cdn.meme.am/instances/55382275.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/86/86ebed5b43a28b75d036fbe9e7f7b7d265c06034021e1deea59acc740f803d6b.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://cdn.meme.am/instances/55170543.jpg)
