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On June 30 2026 10:40 sidasf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2026 08:08 CicadaSC wrote:
I think it is now safe to say that although there was worry, things are turning out to be more balanced than a lot of people thought. I think just a slight number tweak here and there and this will be a really good patch. I'm loving it. Based on what? The game is more broken than it's been since the swarmhost era. Not only that the races have been broken and made so lame. This is awful. Show nested quote +On June 26 2026 11:13 mathphyswithvic wrote:
Above all, I agree with some prior posts, the worst worst worst thing is that protoss does not feel like playing protoss anymore.
With warpgate we had muscle memory very different than zerg or terran.
Now protoss is just another terran. Production cycle is identical, you have to cycle your gates same as a terran cycles it's rax, to keep up production.
This is complete garbage and feels very unfair, we had muscle memory, ok you take that away, why you only take protoss muscle memory away and not other races too?
Very unfair. Outstanding, very well said. They've destroyed the uniqueness of SC2.
Based on this at least, and overall I see Toss learning things and not just getting swept like at the start. I expect the trend to continue with toss doing better and better as they learn new builds Maxpax ALREADY did about as well as you would expect.  WardiTV Mondays/93
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Just played against a GM terran with my protoss. I won't say who for obvious reasons but he was saying at match start how OP protoss is right now. I was surprised because people typing on forums seem to think the other thing. I won the game pretty handily got up to 5 bases and into carriers. So I check his profile after the game to see what his winrate is vs Toss... It is by far his lowest, it was 46% win compared to other matchups were ~65 and 80% win. So... I know that is small sample size, but at the same time I really do think people may be jumping the gun when they haven't figured out how to play Toss on the new patch.
Like in my last post, look at Maxpax, had a pretty par for the course run in yesterdays Wardi TV Mondays.
Maxpax is someone who is great at build orders and refining them. A lot of other players follow the meta, and are still trying to make olds builds work in the current patch. Not Maxpax though. Maxpax creates his own meta around him like when he was the only one doing 1g expand every game pvp, whether there was a high ground natural or not. In any matchup, maxpaxs builds and timings are always crisp. So I think he will be a good indicator on the state of Toss after you give him more time. Even right now, patch is still new and he's figuring things out and succeeding where other players aren't.
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France13000 Posts
Yeah HeroMarine lost to Krystianer and overall struggled vs protoss, seems like Z>P>T atm on the various tournaments.
Having resumed playing sc2 lately I was getting my ass kicked in TvP as usual so I had hopes with this patch that the matchup might improve (at least in low ladder level) but it doesn’t look like it, the economy just feels crippled from the get go so you feel like you have even less options than before
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On June 30 2026 15:28 CicadaSC wrote:
Just played against a GM terran with my protoss. I won't say who for obvious reasons but he was saying at match start how OP protoss is right now. I was surprised because people typing on forums seem to think the other thing. I won the game pretty handily got up to 5 bases and into carriers. So I check his profile after the game to see what his winrate is vs Toss... It is by far his lowest, it was 46% win compared to other matchups were ~65 and 80% win. So... I know that is small sample size, but at the same time I really do think people may be jumping the gun when they haven't figured out how to play Toss on the new patch.
Like in my last post, look at Maxpax, had a pretty par for the course run in yesterdays Wardi TV Mondays.
Maxpax is someone who is great at build orders and refining them. A lot of other players follow the meta, and are still trying to make olds builds work in the current patch. Not Maxpax though. Maxpax creates his own meta around him like when he was the only one doing 1g expand every game pvp, whether there was a high ground natural or not. In any matchup, maxpaxs builds and timings are always crisp. So I think he will be a good indicator on the state of Toss after you give him more time. Even right now, patch is still new and he's figuring things out and succeeding where other players aren't.
I mean If you Look at what maxpax did its what other tosses have talked about aka going skytoss, any ground attempt looked pretty fucking Bad.
PvT complaints i think were less of a Thing and Probably mostly coming from protosses having to figure Out the warpgate stuff.
Although i think terrans are also not abusing the nerfed offensive capabilies of warpgate enough, we're gonna See how that Develops.
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Terran just feels really awkward to me. None of the build timings I've become accustomed to for the past 10 years add up and everything is just off. When I was playing 2v2s the other day and floated my starting CC to the gold immediately on Sludge City, it genuinely felt better than playing normal.
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SoCal8932 Posts
On June 30 2026 20:51 Elentos wrote:
None of the build timings I've become accustomed to for the past 10 years add up and everything is just off.
That's completely to be expected, especially if you haven't been looking up build orders because of the 8 worker start. Your internal clock will need to adjust to the speed of the new economy and corresponding build orders.
This is one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of 8 workers going live because there will inevitably be returning players that want to come back and check it out. But, expecting new players to come back and remain engaged is a tough sell when you have to relearn every single timing.
This is also one of the reasons I don't think they care. If you weren't engaged at the time of the patch you're probably not gonna suddenly care.
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On July 01 2026 00:58 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2026 20:51 Elentos wrote:
None of the build timings I've become accustomed to for the past 10 years add up and everything is just off. That's completely to be expected, especially if you haven't been looking up build orders because of the 8 worker start. Your internal clock will need to adjust to the speed of the new economy and corresponding build orders. This is one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of 8 workers going live because there will inevitably be returning players that want to come back and check it out. But, expecting new players to come back and remain engaged is a tough sell when you have to relearn every single timing. This is also one of the reasons I don't think they care. If you weren't engaged at the time of the patch you're probably not gonna suddenly care.
Yeah agreed I kinda vaguely pay attention now and again and I didn't realize the patch had gone live until I went to make my first depot. Build order resources have dried up over the years and with this patch being brand new theres probably not a ton of info out there unless I specifically went and watched some terrans.
I think big changes like this make sense with a more engaged community but at this point we're all legacy players who have played this game forever. If anything making the wol and hots ladders relevant somehow (an event/skins/idk) would have been way cooler and you can have your low worker count start again lol.
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SoCal8932 Posts
Genuinely surprised (and delighted) to see that they hotfixed so quickly.
We will continue to monitor the patch and make further changes if necessary.
Also promising that they threw this in here considering we didn't get much else the first go-around.
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Training mode still needs adjustments to account for the 8 worker start and different amounts of supply provided by town halls. It complains you're too early if you try to build your first pylon before 13 supply.
It's nice that they're monitoring, but I'd love to know where this monitoring is happening. Apparently the EU Bnet forums don't even have a bug report section?
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Mothership nerf the first sensible change they made.
don't think it's enough though, would prefer if they make the abilities energy based again, a problem is how spammable they are
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Russian Federation6 Posts
I don't have a problem with new changes, I've noticed more activity on the ladder and less insta leavers because of it. However I'm curious to know where they're getting this feedback from because the changes they're making are wild.
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France13000 Posts
On July 01 2026 03:12 BluemoonSC wrote:Genuinely surprised (and delighted) to see that they hotfixed so quickly. Show nested quote +We will continue to monitor the patch and make further changes if necessary. Also promising that they threw this in here considering we didn't get much else the first go-around.
Pleasantly surprised as well. But WHO is they? Who are them and for how long will they have this « burst of activity » to Classic games before going back to more lucrative ventures
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On July 01 2026 00:58 BluemoonSC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2026 20:51 Elentos wrote:
None of the build timings I've become accustomed to for the past 10 years add up and everything is just off. That's completely to be expected, especially if you haven't been looking up build orders because of the 8 worker start. Your internal clock will need to adjust to the speed of the new economy and corresponding build orders. This is one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of 8 workers going live because there will inevitably be returning players that want to come back and check it out. But, expecting new players to come back and remain engaged is a tough sell when you have to relearn every single timing. This is also one of the reasons I don't think they care. If you weren't engaged at the time of the patch you're probably not gonna suddenly care.
It depends, for people like me who quit a while ago, i don't know any timings from LotV anyway because i always hated the 12 worker start and all the new lotv units/abilities.
But now i played a few and i can wing P like i play it in BW for the early game, several veterans on this forum (telecom etc) also echoed the sentiment and, small sample size for sure, several of my bw clan mates or IRL friends returned for this patch for the first time in years.
Now it might not last because the problems we had with sc2 in the first place are not gonna change, but i don't think it ll be because of the timings.
That said for people who stuck with the game, it is a major adjustment and I can see that population being more important to the survival of the game than folks like me who have been playing the same old game for 30yrs now
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France13000 Posts
Given the horrendous imbalances brought by the 8 worker start, I sure hope everyone is conscious of how bad it is for LotV 
The good side of the patch though, is that I got a lot more zergs on ladder, only a few protoss, and barely 0 TvT
Since I enjoy playing TvZ the most regardless of balance, that’s nice
Pros having to play on this patch is rough though, the hot fixes aren’t solutions, the 8 worker start should be reverted and then work from there
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Don't worry, neither young nor old people really understand your point <3
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I'm still actually enjoying the 8 worker start myself, I think they should even go to 6 workers like we had before.
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EPT
