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Fighting Spirit mining rates

Forum Index > Brood War Strategy
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 Next All
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
June 05 2023 09:52 GMT
#1
I have heard that different starting locations mine at different rates on Fighting Spirit.

Is this true? And if so, what is the list, from fastest to slowest, and how big is the difference?
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
June 05 2023 12:21 GMT
#2
I believe no map exists that has balanced mining rates for each location. There are different variables such as race, pathing regions and mineral placements.
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
June 05 2023 13:07 GMT
#3
Its different for each race as the main buildings arent equal in offset: (Wiki)List of Unit and Building Sizes

Meaning you will have to trial&error on each main for each race. Most likely not that big of a difference as compared to Hunter/BGH.

All this is nitpicky as in the end its up to your skill rather than if you managed to boost some more minerals.
-.-
Soulforged
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Latvia918 Posts
June 05 2023 13:17 GMT
#4
Right side is better, since you can mineral boost all front minerals. Not sure if north west or south west is best, though.
There's been some images around with efficiency %'s for each mineral patch on each spawn, but I can't seem to find them anymore.
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
June 05 2023 16:14 GMT
#5
(Wiki)Fighting Spirit
-.-
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10007 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-05 19:09:11
June 05 2023 19:05 GMT
#6
FS has outdated left side mins, here's the stats for the most common min patch formations, right side and left side are pretty standard on almost all the new maps now:

[image loading]
(these are all auto-mine stats, u have to mine the corners of the most forward patches tho, for example #1 on the right side is very slow here unless u manually return cargo it)

the top formation is also pretty standard (sylphid, ascension is also similar), the bot formations are the ones that are different on a lot of maps

ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
alpenrahm
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany628 Posts
June 06 2023 05:00 GMT
#7
I haven't played a bw ladder game in my life, but the way you casually drop these knowledge bombs in a neat illustrated spreadsheet is a clear reminder why I like this place.
MeSaber
Profile Joined December 2009
Sweden1235 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-06 06:00:43
June 06 2023 05:38 GMT
#8
@TT1 - Just because you have minerals on the same place doesnt mean it mines the same as thats decided by the pathing regions.

https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=26630164 (img in spoiler)

[image loading]



-.-
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10007 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-06 13:09:58
June 06 2023 12:37 GMT
#9
yes i know, it's easy to spot inconsistencies in mining if the patches are wrong.. then you have to msg the map maker ^^ (that's part of the map making process)

there's also a way to see the FPS mining rate of each patch but i dunno how to do that, kors use it tho

(credit goes to suricatta for that spreadsheet)
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
MineraIs
Profile Joined September 2020
United States846 Posts
June 07 2023 00:40 GMT
#10
On June 06 2023 14:38 MeSaber wrote:
@TT1 - Just because you have minerals on the same place doesnt mean it mines the same as thats decided by the pathing regions.

https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=26630164 (img in spoiler)

[image loading]





Modern map makers strive to have good pathfinding in their resource areas, so I would say that this spreadsheet is accurate. If a monkey made a map (blizzard) then perhaps the spreadsheet would be inaccurate.
✯ [ twitch.tv/MrMineraIs ] ✯ [ Check out my Maps: https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/612442-official-maps-by-minerals ] ✯
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States909 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-27 14:46:10
June 27 2023 14:40 GMT
#11
On June 06 2023 04:05 TT1 wrote:
FS has outdated left side mins, here's the stats for the most common min patch formations, right side and left side are pretty standard on almost all the new maps now:

[image loading]
(these are all auto-mine stats, u have to mine the corners of the most forward patches tho, for example #1 on the right side is very slow here unless u manually return cargo it)

the top formation is also pretty standard (sylphid, ascension is also similar), the bot formations are the ones that are different on a lot of maps




I was looking for this, haha

So basically with Zerg on top right you would 1358, boost mining on 1, and then everything else, 6 the very last patch

bottom left 1346, then at the end 5 and 7

what's the pattern for sylphid?
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
June 27 2023 17:47 GMT
#12
On June 06 2023 04:05 TT1 wrote:
FS has outdated left side mins, here's the stats for the most common min patch formations, right side and left side are pretty standard on almost all the new maps now:

[image loading]
(these are all auto-mine stats, u have to mine the corners of the most forward patches tho, for example #1 on the right side is very slow here unless u manually return cargo it)

the top formation is also pretty standard (sylphid, ascension is also similar), the bot formations are the ones that are different on a lot of maps


I suspect that these stats are not for strictly on-grid placed formations but with some offset on at least the straight line bottom patches ;P
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States909 Posts
June 29 2023 01:20 GMT
#13
On June 28 2023 02:47 Freakling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2023 04:05 TT1 wrote:
FS has outdated left side mins, here's the stats for the most common min patch formations, right side and left side are pretty standard on almost all the new maps now:

[image loading]
(these are all auto-mine stats, u have to mine the corners of the most forward patches tho, for example #1 on the right side is very slow here unless u manually return cargo it)

the top formation is also pretty standard (sylphid, ascension is also similar), the bot formations are the ones that are different on a lot of maps


I suspect that these stats are not for strictly on-grid placed formations but with some offset on at least the straight line bottom patches ;P


Can we get a "I have too much time on my hands" guide for where to send your workers at the start on every ladder map, position, race combo?
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10007 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-06-29 21:01:06
June 29 2023 19:52 GMT
#14
On June 29 2023 10:20 iopq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2023 02:47 Freakling wrote:
On June 06 2023 04:05 TT1 wrote:
FS has outdated left side mins, here's the stats for the most common min patch formations, right side and left side are pretty standard on almost all the new maps now:

[image loading]
(these are all auto-mine stats, u have to mine the corners of the most forward patches tho, for example #1 on the right side is very slow here unless u manually return cargo it)

the top formation is also pretty standard (sylphid, ascension is also similar), the bot formations are the ones that are different on a lot of maps


I suspect that these stats are not for strictly on-grid placed formations but with some offset on at least the straight line bottom patches ;P


Can we get a "I have too much time on my hands" guide for where to send your workers at the start on every ladder map, position, race combo?


That chart covers pretty much all the standard modern day min formations, ignore the bottom formation (bot right pic). There still isn't a consensus on what the best formation for that base is yet, you'll see a lot of diff min formations for it.

The top left pic is the standard top formation mins (think 12oclock on sylphid, 12 on ascension, this formation is mainly used on 3p maps or 4p maps that have a 12oclock spawn, so say 12/6/3/9).

The top right pic is for right side mins on pretty much all maps with standard mins (think FS/Poly/Eclipse/Sylphid etc, literally every right side base on any type of map, be it 2p/3p/4p).

The bot left pic is the new standard min formation for left side bases (Vermeer, Eclipse, Sylphid etc). Learning those 3 formations should pretty much cover all modern day maps.
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States909 Posts
July 01 2023 16:53 GMT
#15
It's missing the left side FS mins (clearly the bottom minerals in FS suck), and sylphid top is not actually exactly the same (unless the rankings are the same, then I could just use the same chart anyway)
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10007 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-07-02 01:10:44
July 01 2023 17:21 GMT
#16
FS and Poly left side mins are outdated (there's actually a newer version of Poly with L shaped left side mins, Poly 1.72), modern maps don't use that formation anymore on the left side

Sylphid 12 should be exactly the same, #6 on Sylphid top formation needs to be manually boosted like the #1 patch on right side mins

[image loading]

ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Freakling
Profile Joined October 2012
Germany1529 Posts
July 02 2023 20:05 GMT
#17
On June 29 2023 10:20 iopq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2023 02:47 Freakling wrote:
On June 06 2023 04:05 TT1 wrote:
FS has outdated left side mins, here's the stats for the most common min patch formations, right side and left side are pretty standard on almost all the new maps now:

[image loading]
(these are all auto-mine stats, u have to mine the corners of the most forward patches tho, for example #1 on the right side is very slow here unless u manually return cargo it)

the top formation is also pretty standard (sylphid, ascension is also similar), the bot formations are the ones that are different on a lot of maps


I suspect that these stats are not for strictly on-grid placed formations but with some offset on at least the straight line bottom patches ;P


Can we get a "I have too much time on my hands" guide for where to send your workers at the start on every ladder map, position, race combo?

Why are you asking me? "Too much time on my hands" does definitely not apply O_o
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States909 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-07-05 21:07:20
July 05 2023 11:02 GMT
#18
On July 02 2023 02:21 TT1 wrote:
FS and Poly left side mins are outdated (there's actually a newer version of Poly with L shaped left side mins, Poly 1.72), modern maps don't use that formation anymore on the left side

Sylphid 12 should be exactly the same, #6 on Sylphid top formation needs to be manually boosted like the #1 patch on right side mins

[image loading]



how about boosting #5? If you mine from the middle and hit return cargo at 3/4 of the way back to hatchery, it boosts as well

it's not great, like 64 minerals per minute

0:55 82 minerals
2:55 210 minerals

drone same position

but it's faster than mining from the left side

#6 is something like 75 so it's a way bigger increase so that might be the one to focus on though

edit: #1 on the left side can be boosted with placing a pool in the right spot, I'll test it later
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States909 Posts
July 06 2023 14:13 GMT
#19
[image loading]


this what I'm talking about

1:40 82 6:08 410 ~73 minerals per second

gas is not affected, still about 102 gas per second per drone (the drones go off to the side for some reason from time to time??)
iopq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States909 Posts
July 06 2023 14:43 GMT
#20
the top on Eclipse mines gas slower, even though it's in the same pathing region because the drone bugs out sometimes and does a triangle

in my tests more like 98 gas/min/drone which is slower than the bottom gas mining
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