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Videos with 9 workers

Forum Index > SC2 General
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1 2 Next All
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-18 17:35:38
January 18 2020 17:35 GMT
#1
Hello from France,

I ve created some videos showing how 9 workers can be efficient.

I remember good old day with 6 pool, Everyone do.. And despite the fact of increasing the number of workers was necessary, we all remember mythic Build Order as "First CC" or "Baneling Burst", which has completely disappear now.

Some of you remember well how Blizzard has converted us with "the pocket expand" (second expand without no entrance). Well, it was a substitute to future meta game, only focus on reach max limit workers then fight.

These days are now gone, truly gone... So to bring back nostalgy i ve done 4 video with 9 workers.. See below..

PS : sorry for speed and some camera movement, you could increase speed with Youtube.

+100 minerals at start
+15 supply army from Command Center decreased +12 (Only Terrans know why this is Imba)










(NEW !!!) :
Steelghost1
Profile Joined June 2019
43 Posts
January 18 2020 17:53 GMT
#2
12 worker was not necessary, a lot of people got mad at blizzard because of it and left. The economy changes made to LOTV are some of the biggest culprits behind sc2 being on a downward slopem. On this very site we have the Eulogy to the 6-pool article which very clearly showcases why this economic model is worse than the one we had before.
sM.Zik
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada2547 Posts
January 18 2020 18:12 GMT
#3
I always felt like 12 was too much of an increase. I mean i'm still playing lots of BW and 4 workers was never really an issue, though I did prefer having 6 like in SC2 release. I think 9 would be a great middle ground!
Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming
FlaShFTW
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States10144 Posts
January 18 2020 19:23 GMT
#4
On January 19 2020 03:12 sM.Zik wrote:
I always felt like 12 was too much of an increase. I mean i'm still playing lots of BW and 4 workers was never really an issue, though I did prefer having 6 like in SC2 release. I think 9 would be a great middle ground!

The reason why 4 in BW was actually better was because BW got 32 minerals on the first trip while SC2 got 30 minerals on the first trip and from there each worker that came out would mine +3 minerals compared to SC2.

Start = 32-30
+1 workers = 40-35
+2 workers = 48-40
So on and so forth. So by the time you have +10 workers as an example, you are looking at 29 more minerals of income per entire rotation, over the course of however long the game is going. I think 8 workers might have worked fine, you start at 40 minerals and you have that 8 minerals advantage buffer that will be gone after roughly the first supply building is built.
Writer#1 KT and FlaSh Fanboy || Woo Jung Ho Never Forget || Teamliquid Political Decision Desk
TL+ Member
FataLe
Profile Joined November 2010
New Zealand4495 Posts
January 18 2020 22:47 GMT
#5
Didn't we have like a huge thread about someone/a group that made an alternate economic system with loads of information and results that people liked and blizz just went nah, we have our own idea.
hi. big fan.
Look_alike64
Profile Joined March 2015
8 Posts
January 18 2020 23:35 GMT
#6
get back 6 workers, blizzard
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20285 Posts
January 19 2020 00:13 GMT
#7
On January 19 2020 07:47 FataLe wrote:
Didn't we have like a huge thread about someone/a group that made an alternate economic system with loads of information and results that people liked and blizz just went nah, we have our own idea.


Yup
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
The_Templar
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
your Country52797 Posts
January 19 2020 02:07 GMT
#8
On January 19 2020 07:47 FataLe wrote:
Didn't we have like a huge thread about someone/a group that made an alternate economic system with loads of information and results that people liked and blizz just went nah, we have our own idea.

You mean this?
https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/321242-breadth-of-gameplay-in-sc2
Moderatorshe/her
TL+ Member
Parrek
Profile Joined May 2016
United States893 Posts
January 19 2020 05:12 GMT
#9
On January 19 2020 07:47 FataLe wrote:
Didn't we have like a huge thread about someone/a group that made an alternate economic system with loads of information and results that people liked and blizz just went nah, we have our own idea.


Funnily, if it's what the mod commented (https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/321242-breadth-of-gameplay-in-sc2), then most of it got implemented in LotV. It came down to "Less resources per base" "Terrible Terrible Damage isn't good" and "Let the mapmakers be more creative with maps"

We got our 12 workers and less minerals per base, A lot of powerful spells or AOE units like fungal and colossus have been steadily nerfed, and we have had tons of rules lifted on map making.
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
January 19 2020 08:07 GMT
#10
On January 19 2020 14:12 Parrek wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2020 07:47 FataLe wrote:
Didn't we have like a huge thread about someone/a group that made an alternate economic system with loads of information and results that people liked and blizz just went nah, we have our own idea.


Funnily, if it's what the mod commented (https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/321242-breadth-of-gameplay-in-sc2), then most of it got implemented in LotV. It came down to "Less resources per base" "Terrible Terrible Damage isn't good" and "Let the mapmakers be more creative with maps"

We got our 12 workers and less minerals per base, A lot of powerful spells or AOE units like fungal and colossus have been steadily nerfed, and we have had tons of rules lifted on map making.


Don t you forget to say that you HAVE TO build 3 bases...

Anyway, there is always people which are unsatisfied no ?
Majick
Profile Joined August 2016
416 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-19 09:40:01
January 19 2020 09:38 GMT
#11
On January 19 2020 17:07 Vision_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2020 14:12 Parrek wrote:
On January 19 2020 07:47 FataLe wrote:
Didn't we have like a huge thread about someone/a group that made an alternate economic system with loads of information and results that people liked and blizz just went nah, we have our own idea.


Funnily, if it's what the mod commented (https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/321242-breadth-of-gameplay-in-sc2), then most of it got implemented in LotV. It came down to "Less resources per base" "Terrible Terrible Damage isn't good" and "Let the mapmakers be more creative with maps"

We got our 12 workers and less minerals per base, A lot of powerful spells or AOE units like fungal and colossus have been steadily nerfed, and we have had tons of rules lifted on map making.


Don t you forget to say that you HAVE TO build 3 bases...

Anyway, there is always people which are unsatisfied no ?


I think having to build 3 bases in most cases is a good thing because it promotes action on the map. The natural expansion is too easy to defend which encourages a lot of turtle play styles and all-ins. Thanks to the fact that bases mine out faster in LotV, players are forced to establish more forward positions on the map and play a strategy game instead.
SC-Shield
Profile Joined December 2018
Bulgaria818 Posts
January 19 2020 10:39 GMT
#12
Yeah, why not reduce workers so we could have cheese back? Proxies were so much fun to deal with than a macro game... not really.
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
861 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-19 14:57:56
January 19 2020 11:06 GMT
#13
On January 19 2020 18:38 Majick wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2020 17:07 Vision_ wrote:
On January 19 2020 14:12 Parrek wrote:
On January 19 2020 07:47 FataLe wrote:
Didn't we have like a huge thread about someone/a group that made an alternate economic system with loads of information and results that people liked and blizz just went nah, we have our own idea.


Funnily, if it's what the mod commented (https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/321242-breadth-of-gameplay-in-sc2), then most of it got implemented in LotV. It came down to "Less resources per base" "Terrible Terrible Damage isn't good" and "Let the mapmakers be more creative with maps"

We got our 12 workers and less minerals per base, A lot of powerful spells or AOE units like fungal and colossus have been steadily nerfed, and we have had tons of rules lifted on map making.


Don t you forget to say that you HAVE TO build 3 bases...

Anyway, there is always people which are unsatisfied no ?


I think having to build 3 bases in most cases is a good thing because it promotes action on the map. The natural expansion is too easy to defend which encourages a lot of turtle play styles and all-ins. Thanks to the fact that bases mine out faster in LotV, players are forced to establish more forward positions on the map and play a strategy game instead.


No, it promotes defense play style cause Pro players are enhanced to optimize and develop their macro (also reach gap workers count) since they could be slow down by "none efficient trade" and a loss of APM (with mico management).

You can t critizice against map specificities, this is not revealant.

Also, Even if SC2 get workers which harverst +38% faster than in BW (see link above), this doesn t matter since the game has better ergonomic features (oiled mechanics, pathfinding, groups, etc..). The problem remains but less stronger and also targeted on ze Terran race of "Build Order", which is mostly impacted by this economy change...

Then, some changes could be done to increase queen injection to 3 larva in 29 seconds to 4 larva in 38 seconds.


On January 19 2020 03:12 sM.Zik wrote:
I always felt like 12 was too much of an increase. I mean i'm still playing lots of BW and 4 workers was never really an issue, though I did prefer having 6 like in SC2 release. I think 9 would be a great middle ground!


After released these videos, i was fully satisfied. Timing between buildings were great, all things were perfectly made to have similar build compared to 6 workers.. With Fast build "banshee or Stim Drop", i forgot to send a vcs.. then perhaps these builds aren t so perfectly snapped into place and required a little bit adjustements.


VIDEO FAST BUNKER (PRE REQUIREMENT : ENGINERRING BAY)




Terrans can build a BC in 64 seconds but they need 40 seconds to build a bunker (here : 20 seconds with Eng Bay) ?
starkiller123
Profile Joined January 2016
United States4030 Posts
January 19 2020 18:44 GMT
#14
Hmm I still have mixed feelings about the change, I am a little sad that it limited some of the openings you could go for but at the same time it feels so good to immediately get into the game
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-21 02:19:13
January 21 2020 02:15 GMT
#15
fewer workers is just more 1 base cheese and more time spent watching nothing happen. i can't even watch HOTS games anymore because of how slow the start is

the one thing i find dumb about the fast mineral start is cannon rushes. in Hots if you knew cannons were coming and pre pulled to block then you basically won the game, but now the cannon player can afford to make like 4-5 buildings at once, so they can still do stupid simcity tricks to force a bunch of counter micro
TL+ Member
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10670 Posts
January 21 2020 05:01 GMT
#16
I liked SC2 the most when they took out macro mechanics myself.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-22 01:35:59
January 22 2020 01:31 GMT
#17
On January 19 2020 19:39 SC-Shield wrote:
Yeah, why not reduce workers so we could have cheese back? Proxies were so much fun to deal with than a macro game... not really.


So then start everyone with 2 base then. if nothing can threaten you in the early game then just remove it.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-01-22 02:28:20
January 22 2020 02:24 GMT
#18
On January 22 2020 10:31 BronzeKnee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 19 2020 19:39 SC-Shield wrote:
Yeah, why not reduce workers so we could have cheese back? Proxies were so much fun to deal with than a macro game... not really.


So then start everyone with 2 base then. if nothing can threaten you in the early game then just remove it.

that's pretty much what we already have though. everyone almost always expands and survives. it's better that way

you can still do aggro builds, they're just less all-in and you don't automatically lose without scouting them because of higher income and worker pulls. 10 worker cheeses like in-base proxy gate were funny, but stupid as fuck

pvp was affected the worst by the new economy. cannon rushes are more complicated, and having to block adepts with pylons is a terrible and unnecessary skill check
TL+ Member
outscar
Profile Joined September 2014
2832 Posts
January 22 2020 02:32 GMT
#19
12 workers and mineral patches reduction were main reasons why I quit SC2 forever. Revert to WoL/HotS era eco and maybe I'll consider trying this game again.
sunbeams are never made like me...
operwolf
Profile Joined April 2008
United States324 Posts
January 22 2020 03:34 GMT
#20
On January 22 2020 11:32 outscar wrote:
12 workers and mineral patches reduction were main reasons why I quit SC2 forever. Revert to WoL/HotS era eco and maybe I'll consider trying this game again.


Same reason I quit as well, not that anyone cares. At this point it will never be reverted and there are plenty of people out there that prefer the 12 worker start. Personally I think it was bad for the game.
He'll end up dead, because he'll die.
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