Barrins very good post, I agree wholeheartedly the need for the more "back and forth" action that we see in BW. One huge turnoff for me when watching and playing SC2 is huge armies, ie. protoss deathball, which seems like a direct consequence of high yield mineral sites.

Randomaccount#77123

United States5003 Posts

March 16 2012 17:48 GMT

--- Nuked ---

yujie900

United States7 Posts

March 16 2012 17:57 GMT

My mistake, I meant resource sites with 8 mineral patches, not gold mineral patches, wording error. Nonetheless, I will try to submit some replays in the future.

Rednaxela_19

United States150 Posts

March 16 2012 18:00 GMT

Wow. I read more than half, and I can say that I really like this idea so far. Now back to reading ^^

mRandy

Sweden146 Posts

March 16 2012 18:05 GMT

Impressive work you have put in, good read also.

jinorazi

Korea (South)4948 Posts

March 16 2012 18:06 GMT

spotlight this shizzle.

honestly, if the game got developed/influenced by some of the best suggestions in the community, sc2 could be awesome.

NoctemSC

United States771 Posts

March 16 2012 18:07 GMT

Very well written Barrin.
However, I'm going to have "terrible terrible damage" Stuck in my head for the next week now. Thanks.

Edit:
Also, why don't you work for Blizzard Barrin D:

Megabuster123

Canada1837 Posts

March 16 2012 18:08 GMT

#10

The game would basically be completely different. Interesting shit.

Azide

Canada566 Posts

March 16 2012 18:12 GMT

#11

Incredible thread. Makes a lot of sense. Good work

TG Manny

United States325 Posts

March 16 2012 18:12 GMT

#12

I think that SC2 is better for being a game of positioning rather than micro, and don't get me wrong micro has its place in SC2 (I play Terran, so I know =_=). When maps start evolving more to incoorperate macro game oriented bases as well as interesting defensible terrain for all races we will see SC2 doing even better.

At the moment it is "let me get my decent tech and a few ups and push while you're upgrading". Because of the high damage content and high rates of fire, upgrades are so important and AoE being so killer, you want to get a ton of sustainable army and keep your opponent from making a better one. TvT is a great example of pushing when you see an opening, controlling space, and placing units in opportune positions to do damage. Those 8 marines and a medivac? Won't do shit walking into a siege line alone. Safely landed in the opponent's main? Oh there goes 1/3 of your workers, your next upgrade, and/or some reactors! Did you unsiege too many of your tanks in a vulnerable location? Here comes the huge wave of replaceable bio to lower the tank count considerably.

If we were to inherently "slow down" the games mining trends, we wouldn't be able to pay for all the upgrades and siege tanks so easily. All of a sudden, 8 marines and a medivac is worth a little more but can cause the same amount of damage (which inherently does more damage since stuff is more time expensive with less resources available). Or people would just figure out the most economical builds to get quick 3/4 bases and defend them well enough from attacks just like our standard 1gate FE, 1 rax FE, and hatch first (and in some cases now, double expands off of limit resources). Less siege tanks doesn't make the game more intriguing, it will just prolong the game longer. If the damages/mechanics aren't changed and there is less overall income, we'll stay in "early game" and "passive midgame" much longer. The only units that are micro intensive early are marines and sometimes stalkers+sentries. It'll either make them OP or UP.

If anything, I'd like to see HotS continue SC2s trend, as it opens up a lot of possibilities for tech play and 1 base allins. If we only had 1 gas per base (even with slightly higher collection rate), zerg would be dead in the water using only lings and some banes, terrans wouldn't have as many ghosts, upgrades, or starport units, and protoss would be clinging to their zealots for deal life because of how gas expensive even their gateway armies are.

Fast Edit:
This is coming from a perspective of not much changing around the actual mechanics of SC2 other than resources and their collection rate. If damage slowed down or units had more HP or AoE was able to be funded at similar pacing to now, then their might be a change in how to actually play the game, rather than prolong it. Remember, static defense powerful into midgame and longer currently. What happens if 3 cannons, bunkers, or spines pop up at each base? Same stalematey pump to 200 and win type stuff.

Wildmoon

Thailand4189 Posts

March 16 2012 18:13 GMT

#13

I mostly agree with you such a contructive post!.:D but I think you shouldn't put something like Blizzard only want money,wartered down or something like that in it though because nothing constructive will come out of it.

Funguuuuu

United States198 Posts

March 16 2012 18:16 GMT

#14

Incredible piece.
I want to see maps like you descibed; with more expansions, harrassment potential goes up, increasing the amount of multitasking and making the game require more skill.

0neder

United States3733 Posts

March 16 2012 18:18 GMT

#15

Amazing post. Basically sums up all my feelings about SC2 and it's shortcomings, both as a spectator and a professional designer.

I'm curious as to your thoughts on the the relative weakness of tech units and AoE compared to BW (see Tank, Ultra, Storm, etc. For terran especially, it seems there is little incentive to do anything in tier 2 beyond medivacs and the occasional tank/banshee/viking.

TORTOISE

United States515 Posts

March 16 2012 18:18 GMT

#16

Great post, I agree with many points. This could take SC2 gameplay in a great new direction!

HaXXspetten

Sweden15718 Posts

March 16 2012 18:21 GMT

#17

Wow, that's quite the info bomb you dropped there Barrin :o

Guess I'll have to read through it now

Muggs

United States148 Posts

March 16 2012 18:22 GMT

#18

Wonderful post. I agree wholeheartedly and this is something I've been thinking about as well. I've always felt something was a bit off regarding what people are able to accomplish off of 2-3 bases.

Depetrify

978 Posts

March 16 2012 18:25 GMT

#19

Also raise supply cap :D

Diamond

United States10796 Posts

March 16 2012 18:26 GMT

#20

Holy shit Barrin I thought you were gonna un wall of text this?