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NEW IN-GAME CHANNEL: FRB |
On March 17 2012 03:55 Wildmoon wrote:
I would love to see pros try out this style of map.
Yeah thats what I was going to say as well. Get some top players playing some games ,and then casting replays would be great. Id love to get more of that BW feel back into SC again. Deathball's and 2 base all'ins are really boring to watch, and play with. I think these styles of maps would help a lot with trying to get more macro going into the game, and getting more in depth play styles going.
Plus with all of the new caster units coming out in HOTS, this would be a really good time to change to this play style as well.
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It's damn time to finally take matters into our own hands and go against the sc2 balance/design team :D
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You know any other time someone suggests changes to starcraft 2, the mods shut it down and tell them to go post on battle.net
..but if a mod posts a suggested change to sc2..
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love you barrin but the games just wouldnt be as exciting, especially on big maps, stuff just takes to long to develop... now small maps... thats where its at (:
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I read it ALL and holy shit that is massive post. I am convinced by it though, the reasoning is sound. With regards to the effect on casual players, I am gold/plat depending on race/server and I think it would make gameplay more interesting at my level as the greater time frame for interaction with your opponent would lessen the 1aDeathball-offs. I have friends ranging from truly inept to frustrated silver as well and I think it would also make their games more enjoyable. Casual games (and I mean CASUAL with a capital derp) in BW were more fun than their SC2 equivalent because your units were more important to you and fewer so you had more fun microing them.
I'm tired and this isn't making a lot of sense therefore: I agree and I think it would be better for casual gamers too!
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this issue seems so obvious after reading this, I cant believe I never thought of it before. Lets hope blizzard is reading along
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I fully support this and tweeted your thread @starcraft.
Huge post mate :D
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Best post I have ever read. I highly doubt this can be implemented, as the entire collection of standard strategies would have to be thrown out the window. But I definitely sounds like a way to make SC2 games more exciting and skillful.
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Really nice read. Not too sure if 7 mineral patches will make much of a difference, but I see why you would want to start there.
If any high-masters players want to try the 6 mineral/base maps PM me. Sounds fun.
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If I had a beard I would be in full (beard) stroke mode right now. Great post/thread. Thanks for replying in depth about the differences in BW/SC2 saturation, it helped clear up some stuff for me since I lack any BW experience to speak of. Really glad to see map makers putting this much thought and effort into the game.
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On March 17 2012 04:16 darkscream wrote:
You know any other time someone suggests changes to starcraft 2, the mods shut it down and tell them to go post on battle.net
..but if a mod posts a suggested change to sc2..
Where has someone made a post about things the community can change and has been shut down? This post is about what map makers and pro players can do to change gameplay for the better, not about what changes Blizzard can make to the fundamental game mechanics.
And if you can find a thread that has been shut down like this by a non mod then I guarantee it didn't have nearly as much evidence and work put into it.
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Epic, Epic thread. I am very interested in playing on these altered maps.
Edit:
What I find most appealing about this idea is that it is something that could be accomplished without blizzard's help. Although it may require a great deal of work, even slight racial imbalances created by the limited resource maps (eg. PF's, mules, etc) could be counterbalanced against by introducing thoughtful map terrain features, at least in principle.
I remember back during beta and during the first months of sc2 there was alot of conjecture about to what extent the map pool was forcing mediocre gameplay, and the general consensus was that it was impossible to tell for sure (as many people felt the game was just irreparably broken). I think in retrospect we are now in a better position to say that changing the map pool towards larger maps without gold bases and less rocks has led to longer, more technical, and more bw-esque games in general.
I think further explorations of how map design affects gameplay are unbelievably important to sc2, and I hope that somebody will take it upon themselves to translate Barrin's post into korean so it can be posted on PlayXP. Perhaps Barrin will create a condensed version for translation.
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This kind of discussion, analysis, and experimentation is something that NEEDS to happen if SC2 if going to be a long-term, viable ESPORT. Sure, the core rules of SC2 are set by Blizzard, but the map-makers, the players, and the casters have waaaaaay more freedom than they think they do. Eventually, Blizzard's gonna finish with the expansions, and go their merry way (besides occasional tourneys and keeping the ladder pool updated), and the elite core of the community--the cabal of players, teams, casters, sponsors, and map-makers--is going to have to take the reins of the game.
What Barrin's talking about is an incredibly easy change that would dramatically shift the way the game plays. I don't know about you, but that's a pretty exciting concept. SC2 is not just this single, binary thing that Blizzard's given us--it can be so many things with only a few changes.
So, yeah, try it out! What do we have to lose? Even if Barrin's completely off-base, he can at least get the ball rolling on seriously analyzing SC2 and experimenting with what it is and what it can be. FIAT!
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Hey Barrin, you are making this kind of map right?
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On March 17 2012 04:16 darkscream wrote:
You know any other time someone suggests changes to starcraft 2, the mods shut it down and tell them to go post on battle.net
..but if a mod posts a suggested change to sc2..
Um what?
There were plenty of threads on TL where ideas about possible changes to sc2 gameplay were introduced and discussed.But when you want to start a discussion of some sort about a topic like that,you better analyze the problem in depth and make a proper reasoning behind your ideas.This is not a "O LETS BUFF XYZ BECAUSE ITS UP".
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On March 17 2012 04:16 darkscream wrote:
You know any other time someone suggests changes to starcraft 2, the mods shut it down and tell them to go post on battle.net
..but if a mod posts a suggested change to sc2..
I think the difference here is that it's not a whine 'coz Blah is imba and my thinger should be over 9000 to compensate'
There is a shit ton of thought and research into this and it's implementation would be an act of the community, for the community by the community. It is posted on battle.net as well as linked in the OP and references include similar themed posts by non-mods.
PS: If you're trolling you got me 
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On March 17 2012 04:16 darkscream wrote:
You know any other time someone suggests changes to starcraft 2, the mods shut it down and tell them to go post on battle.net
..but if a mod posts a suggested change to sc2..
Because those are all terrible posts by random people who don't know what they're talking about. This is by a respected, knowledgeable community figure and mapmaker. Read the TL Commandments.
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This "less resources per base" proposition is great! Maps are pretty much the only manipulable asset we have in affecting SC2 gameplay, and I really like any idea that pushes us to further our use of this method. I really hope this article gets alot of attention! Great read :3
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It seems like the macro mechanics for each race would be more interesting with fewer patches, chronoboosting workers ceases to be useful sooner so the energy might be devoted to other buildings sooner; supply drop seems stronger to me if there are fewer available minerals/base, excessive mule use might force a terran to relocate their OCs to new territory or just expand much more often; faster creep spread / more of it in general would result if spawn larva resulted in unusable larva.
Well written, and I'll definitely give the lower mineral count maps a shot!
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EPT
