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On July 12 2015 12:18 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 12:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I said I'm changing things up. :3 You're not particularly answering the question. Maybe it might help if you answered the one I just posed.
Not particularly interested in something because I'm still waiting but whatever.
I try and form who I think are the core of townies and work from there. I do tend to sheep cases in the earlier stages of the game but it's not because I'm mindless.  Something to keep in mind.
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On July 12 2015 12:21 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 12:18 Half the Sky wrote:On July 12 2015 12:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I said I'm changing things up. :3 You're not particularly answering the question. Maybe it might help if you answered the one I just posed. Not particularly interested in something because I'm still waiting but whatever. I try and form who I think are the core of townies and work from there. I do tend to sheep cases in the earlier stages of the game but it's not because I'm mindless. Something to keep in mind.
And what if town are on the wrong track? How do we know you aren't taking advantage of that as scum?
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On July 12 2015 12:39 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 12:21 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 12:18 Half the Sky wrote:On July 12 2015 12:15 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I said I'm changing things up. :3 You're not particularly answering the question. Maybe it might help if you answered the one I just posed. Not particularly interested in something because I'm still waiting but whatever. I try and form who I think are the core of townies and work from there. I do tend to sheep cases in the earlier stages of the game but it's not because I'm mindless. Something to keep in mind. And what if town are on the wrong track? How do we know you aren't taking advantage of that as scum?
You don't. Which is why things are interesting. :D
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On July 12 2015 12:41 MoosyDoosy wrote:
You don't. Which is why things are interesting. :D
I think in 18-19 hours' time let's see if you find the noose interesting.
##vote MoosyDoosy
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On July 12 2015 12:46 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 12:41 MoosyDoosy wrote:
You don't. Which is why things are interesting. :D I think in 18-19 hours' time let's see if you find the noose interesting. ##vote MoosyDoosy
I do :3
##unvote NydusHerMain
##vote MoosyDoosy
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.......
If you're town you shouldn't be doing this.
What do you think on the most widely (not just me) discussed potential scum if you aren't? (scott/nydus/sulfurus)
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On July 12 2015 08:01 n00bKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:
In conclusion, I think we should try to lynch one of the people who is keeping up with the thread, but aren't making useful contributions. These people are in my opinion more likely to be mafia rather than the people who aren't saying anything at all. At this point, these people are Sulfurus, scott31337 and KelsierSC. AND NydusHerMain, who you conspicuously left out of this group, even though two of your townreads (Moosy and myself) are voting against him. Scott has only one post, but you decide that he's "lurking" and think he's a good lynch. NHM you describe as "inactive" instead, and you want to "wait until he gets back." Why the preferential treatment?
Mainly because he popped in early on, made 2 posts, then disappeared and hasn't posted since, while the other have made a few more posts. But yeah, there isn't much difference between NHM and the other people I mentioned.
Also, I might have to change my stance on MD being town. his later posts seem rather suspicious as other people have pointed out. I don't really buy the "switching things up" claim. Also, the following seems contradictory:
On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3
On July 12 2015 02:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:On that note imma sheep n00bKing. ##vote NydusHerMain
On July 12 2015 08:44 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I guess the least that I can say is that I'm trying to find Mafia in a different way than creating a monster filter / sheeping cases with an earnest playstyle like I did last game.
HtS proposed that we try to lynch the most scummy person rather than policy-lynching people for lurking, and rather use DT checks/VT shots for the lurkers, which seems reasonable to me. I listed the lurkers as potential lynch targets mostly because I didn't have any other scumreads. MD might be a better target for a day 1 lynch.
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Last post from me for a bit....
On July 12 2015 13:35 Grokken wrote:Also, I might have to change my stance on MD being town. his later posts seem rather suspicious as other people have pointed out. I don't really buy the "switching things up" claim. Also, the following seems contradictory: Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3 Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 11 2015 23:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:
We are all sheep. On that note imma sheep n00bKing. ##vote NydusHerMain Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 08:44 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I guess the least that I can say is that I'm trying to find Mafia in a different way than creating a monster filter / sheeping cases with an earnest playstyle like I did last game. HtS proposed that we try to lynch the most scummy person rather than policy-lynching people for lurking, and rather use DT checks/VT shots for the lurkers, which seems reasonable to me. I listed the lurkers as potential lynch targets mostly because I didn't have any other scumreads. MD might be a better target for a day 1 lynch.
You said in your FIRST assessment of him:
On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:MoosyDoosy: Has made some good posts in my opinion. In particular I agree with the following post: Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 05:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know).  I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for. I was going to bring this up myself, but seems like you beat me to it. Although the defense is good, I think it would be better to just let me defend myself, especially because I haven't really posted much before now. MoosyDoosy is a townread for me.
You pick up ONE post that was good but the posts that others commented on that were poor were also BEFORE you posted. The two posts called into question by others BEFORE your first assessment are:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#160
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=9#174
If you townread him for his posting in general, why did these posts pass you by? The second was about an hour before you responded so it's not likely you were ninjaed there.
The switching things up argument was also made BEFORE your first townread of him.
To me at first glance, this looks like you are blending in with the crowd once MD has been called out.
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On July 12 2015 12:19 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 09:57 TJHuggins wrote:On July 12 2015 08:56 Fidei86 wrote:
You said about ten posts ago that you were going to be town-hunting at first. Now you're saying that you're scum-hunting. Which is it?? I think you're reaching a bit here. This post seems so opposite to everything else you've written this game. What gives? I don't think I agree with this sentiment TJ. I think I know what Fidei is trying to achieve with the question, but I'll let him sort it out.
Thanks HTS. I can feel the pocket already! :-)
@TJH Two reasons for that post really:
1. One of my favourite ways to try and exonerate falsely accused scum is to judge their reaction to being pressured/tunnelled. In Holy Guardians everyone wanted to lynch a player called Chocolate for the first three days (and we did lynch him like d3 or d4). But I actually believed his town claim just from the emotional way he defended himself. I totally agree that this is never going to be conclusive, and it's only one piece of a big and complicated jigsaw, but there it is.
2. I get a bit ... emotional about scum hunting. People who played with me in HG will remember some of the posts I made when town mislynched Chocolate (there was some swearing ha). Basically, I can get a bit carried away. I would still ask that question again, I think, but you're totally right to call me out on the way I phrased it. That said, given Moosy's incredibly lacklustre response to it, I'm glad I did post it.
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On July 12 2015 14:35 Half the Sky wrote:Last post from me for a bit.... Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 13:35 Grokken wrote:Also, I might have to change my stance on MD being town. his later posts seem rather suspicious as other people have pointed out. I don't really buy the "switching things up" claim. Also, the following seems contradictory: On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3 On July 12 2015 02:20 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 11 2015 23:46 MoosyDoosy wrote:
We are all sheep. On that note imma sheep n00bKing. ##vote NydusHerMain On July 12 2015 08:44 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I guess the least that I can say is that I'm trying to find Mafia in a different way than creating a monster filter / sheeping cases with an earnest playstyle like I did last game. HtS proposed that we try to lynch the most scummy person rather than policy-lynching people for lurking, and rather use DT checks/VT shots for the lurkers, which seems reasonable to me. I listed the lurkers as potential lynch targets mostly because I didn't have any other scumreads. MD might be a better target for a day 1 lynch. You said in your FIRST assessment of him: Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:MoosyDoosy: Has made some good posts in my opinion. In particular I agree with the following post: On July 12 2015 05:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know). I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for. I was going to bring this up myself, but seems like you beat me to it. Although the defense is good, I think it would be better to just let me defend myself, especially because I haven't really posted much before now. MoosyDoosy is a townread for me. You pick up ONE post that was good but the posts that others commented on that were poor were also BEFORE you posted. The two posts called into question by others BEFORE your first assessment are: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#160http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=9#174If you townread him for his posting in general, why did these posts pass you by? The second was about an hour before you responded so it's not likely you were ninjaed there. The switching things up argument was also made BEFORE your first townread of him. To me at first glance, this looks like you are blending in with the crowd once MD has been called out.
A mistake on my part. When i made the first post I was reading through everyones filter to figure out exactly who said what. It took a decent amount of time, and after refreshing there were new posts, so I had to go back and re-evaluate some people. I read through a lot of posts, and I must have overlooked the ones you linked.
I was originally gonna put MD as neutral, but then he made this post:
On July 12 2015 05:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know). I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for.
I was also asking myself why you would be defending me, I hadn't really posted much at this point, and hearing my defense could have resulted in some useful reads. At this point, I had a friend waiting for me, so I decided to put him as town and be done with it.
Anyway, when other people pointed out the problems with his posts, I went back and reread his filter in more detail, and that made me change my mind.
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All of that said, although I think Moosy is a fine choice for lynching, I am more concerned about the chronic lurkers we have. The thing about Moosy is that, although literally everything he has done has been scummy, this early on d1 it's all pretty much just tone reads and looking for scum 'slips'. This is highly important, as it gives town something to talk about and can force scum to start talking in the thread. However, having slept on it (and calmed a bit), I can see a stronger argument for lurking one of the lurkers. I know HTS and others have talked before about not policy lynching, but the thing is that Moosy is at least here to defend himself. The others aren't, and that makes lynching them later on down the line basically a coin flip. I'd rather get that out of the way early.
That said, I wonder if there will be mod-kills/replacements for the people who haven't posted at all? Does anyone know what usually happens in these Newbie Mafia games?
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On July 12 2015 08:33 silentwarrior wrote:
Ok, so my first scumread when reading was NydusHerMain. First it was that she voted for fidei, for a post which i feel was very towny. She then didn't explain herself, and hasn't posted anything since that. I will be interested to hear what she says about that when she returns.
I also found some of what moosy said suspicous, but most of that has already been said by noobking, The most scummy thing to me was that he said he wanted to change his play, then wondered how someone could read that as. If you are town one game and then make a point to say that you change your play, then logically you will play as mafia.
Silent's two posts got lost in the mix a little, but I want to just flag them up. I know this is a newbie game, so maybe people are just giving them a pass because he's new, or it could be that people were expecting him to continue his train of thought. However, on their face, these are incredibly poor posts.
First, he apologises for being late to the thread (being nervous and apologetic can be a scum-sign), then he proceeds to parrot points that have all been made in exactly the other way by other people. If you read them both again, there is not an original thought in them.
Second, he makes them and then retreats back into the shadows.
I'm not going to full on scum read him because, as I said above, he's new and so may just be honestly struggling for something new to say. I know I felt the same way in my first game. Still, this is a troubling start and he's going to have to improve to avoid drawing my attention later on.
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I just took a look over Scott's filter in Gaiden and he has been pretty inactive in there too over the last 36 hours or so, save for one post last night/this morning. That doesn't intrinsically mean much, but I thought I'd flag it up anyway. Hopefully he'll be back well in advance of the deadline..
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Going to bed now (yeah I know it's 2pm in Sweden, don't judge me), made my vote in case i don't get back.
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So, unfortunately this started on a busy weekend for me, but here I am again.
As for my background in Mafia, I have none, but I have played "Werewolves of Miller's Hollow", which is similar I guess.
My initial thoughts are that there are some people who are actually trying to help the discussion so far and some people are just trying to create chaos.
In my opinion people who try to create chaos aren't playing happily for the village.
NHM : somehow votes really really early, without having a solid argument.
MoosyDoosy: Votes on NHM with the motto of sheep. I'm not particularly fond of sheep, becuse in that case it seems like you will vote with anyone, just so you don't get killed during the day, which seems conspicuous. He does seem to "try" to help, but voting on himself afterwards isn't really helpfull either.
My first impression on MD is that he is trying to create too much chaos, which is scumlike. But in the same time it seems like he is just trying to provoke alot of people, which is townlike i guess?
Scott : somehow says he has a townlead towards Fidei, but hasn't said anything since, nor did he do anything to explain his thoughts, which seems just really random.
TJHuggins : seems to be trying to find out more information on certain partys, which is better (imo) than spraying confusement.
HTS: seems to be really forward in his questions calling people onto their nonsense, which could be really strong mafia play, but for now it seems like he is legitimately hunting.
Ghandi : I don't really know what he's thinking, he seems to try to avoid policy lynches on the first day, which I can understand, but it could also just be easy targeting/avoiding death. I don't have experience with this game, but I doubt that "Day 1 reads are all luck anyways" is true.. I think you can really come to some sort of fruition about some people..
Kelsier : So far he has only spammed nonesense into this thread, which is confusing for everyone. I think mafia players like chaos in the game, so in this case Kelsier is doing a "good" thing, by being a bit active without doing anything to help the town at all.
Sulfurus : just randomly said he had the cop check, but I assume this is to get some reactions to it. Hasn't really said much since..
n00bking / grokken/ fidei: has actually tried to get more explanations / reactions out of people which is good for the village imo.
silentwarrior : really is kinda silent.. .
It's really hard to tell, especially since it is in the beginning of the game, but seeing that Kelsier has alot of experience and is only trying to create chaos, is worrying for me. Some others which seems untrustworthy aren't making a mess out of the rest of the town, so for me MoosyDoosy and Kelsier are the most dangerous at this moment..
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Kelsier - if you are running the Chezniu/Onegu line, you're doing it all wrong and it's time to stop and contribute. We all know that you're a very strong player, and not having you helping out is actively hurting town.
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WonnaPlay - welcome to TL Mafia (he says, only having had two prior games of experience). Who are you thinking about lynching at the moment?
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On July 12 2015 21:29 Fidei86 wrote:
WonnaPlay - welcome to TL Mafia (he says, only having had two prior games of experience). Who are you thinking about lynching at the moment?
Hi, Thanks 
As I said in my other post, my 2 most 'dangerous' villagers are MD and Kelsier, just for the fact that they're creating chaos.
If they are townies, I don't think their prime objective would be chaos creation. So I would probably vote for one of these 2, unless they come up with a decent post in the coming 9 hours.
I'll also wait for Scott's reaction, because he claimed to post something soon.
You just said Kelsier is a really good player, yet to me he showed signs of the most scummie player. Maybe it was on purpose, maybe it was not. Untill he explains himself he's the #1 suspect for me
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In my first game ever we had a player do more or less the same as Kelsier is doing now. I reacted more or less exactly the same way as you have done. In this specific scenario, and given that I've played with Kelsier, I don't think he is a good lynch for today. However, I'll leave it to Kelsier to come and explain what he is up to.
I give you a slight town read for the way you are thinking, even if I don't agree quite with where you end up.
Also, am I right in thinking that English is not your first language? (If it isn't, it's still a hell of a lot better than my Dutch, believe me - and this is coming from someone who once dated a Dutch girl for six months).
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On July 12 2015 21:27 Fidei86 wrote:
Kelsier - if you are running the Chezniu/Onegu line, you're doing it all wrong and it's time to stop and contribute. We all know that you're a very strong player, and not having you helping out is actively hurting town.
I will send out the message from my cabin but I see no reason to abandon my sanctuary to the "chaotic" game I created.
Groken and Wp look like scum so far . Terrible list posts early in the game.
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EPT
