EPTIs the larve respawn broken?
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phershey
United States66 Posts
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Kreuger
Sweden915 Posts
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jimminy_kriket
Canada5536 Posts
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phershey
United States66 Posts
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Agh
United States1074 Posts
But anyway none of that matters because the larva change was pants on head and Zerg's econ is/was comically overpowered (someone mentioned a hot fix but I haven't logged in for a day or two). Take it all with a grain of salt, no point in being mentally invested in the ptr | ||
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bycrazingby
21 Posts
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8932 Posts
On June 25 2026 19:40 bycrazingby wrote: Zerg can max out at 200 supply by 7:30 now. They already expand faster than anyone, and their mid-to-late game units have been buffed multiple times already! How the hell are we supposed to fight that?! Making basic, beginner-level mistakes like messing with Larva spawn rates — what the hell are they even thinking with these random changes?! If I am not mistaken, Zerg is the most nerfed race of the 3 since LOTV and if you're encountering zergs maxing by 7:30 I suspect you're not doing enough economic damage. | ||
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ProTech
United States490 Posts
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mathphyswithvic
18 Posts
On June 26 2026 05:14 BluemoonSC wrote: If I am not mistaken, Zerg is the most nerfed race of the 3 since LOTV and if you're encountering zergs maxing by 7:30 I suspect you're not doing enough economic damage. So what I'm taking from this is that if you're not playing Zerg, you're forced into an aggressive playstyle to have a chance of winning? Great! so much for letting players choose how they want to play. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8932 Posts
On June 26 2026 11:27 mathphyswithvic wrote: So what I'm taking from this is that if you're not playing Zerg, you're forced into an aggressive playstyle to have a chance of winning? Great! so much for letting players choose how they want to play. Starcraft 2 has quite literally been balanced around macro mechanics and harassment/economy disruption. Letting your opponent do whatever they want has historically been bad, no matter which race is considered OP at the time. | ||
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tigera6
3502 Posts
On June 26 2026 12:57 BluemoonSC wrote: Starcraft 2 has quite literally been balanced around macro mechanics and harassment/economy disruption. Letting your opponent do whatever they want has historically been bad, no matter which race is considered OP at the time. Point is the new patch allow Zerg to macro up WHILE defending relatively with ease. Previously they have to scout harder and cant drone as hard or they might die to a strong push, now they have a higher margin to play greedy in the early and mid-game. The goal of Zerg has always been securing the 4th base with a good drone count and run away with it and this patch make it easier to do so. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8932 Posts
But being upset that youre forced to push the zerg so they cant play as greedy (no matter what the margins are) is a crazy take. That would be true of any race that is wearing the pants during a given balance patch. | ||
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tigera6
3502 Posts
On June 26 2026 13:42 BluemoonSC wrote: I understand what the larva change means. But being upset that youre forced to push the zerg so they cant play as greedy (no matter what the margins are) is a crazy take. That would be true of any race that is wearing the pants during a given balance patch. You are not addressing my point, I am not upset that other races have to play aggressive against Zerg, I am confused they have to make the patch such that its now HARDER to do so. And giving Zerg an easier time with all those buff, not just the larvae change with also cheaper Carapace, better and quicker Microbial Shroud. | ||
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ProTech
United States490 Posts
On June 26 2026 14:42 tigera6 wrote: You are not addressing my point, I am not upset that other races have to play aggressive against Zerg, I am confused they have to make the patch such that its now HARDER to do so. And giving Zerg an easier time with all those buff, not just the larvae change with also cheaper Carapace, better and quicker Microbial Shroud. I can't for the life of me figure out why people are even whining about this. Yes it sucks, but it's so painfully obvious that it's broken you don't need to worry that it won't get reverted. Same w/ the void ray, although I don't think many people have figured that one out yet. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8932 Posts
On June 26 2026 14:42 tigera6 wrote: You are not addressing my point, I am not upset that other races have to play aggressive against Zerg, I am confused they have to make the patch such that its now HARDER to do so. And giving Zerg an easier time with all those buff, not just the larvae change with also cheaper Carapace, better and quicker Microbial Shroud. I wasn't addressing your point because I was addressing someone claiming zerg can max out by 7:30 on live. but if you insist. I am not 100% convinced that the larva change on live is as bad as people are making it out to be. It's not as bad as PTR, Queens are still 175, hatches are back to 300, and they still have to spend a drone to make structures. I also don't think that the "it'll be the same builds but 30s slower" crowd is entirely correct because it seems to me that people are not applying enough pressure to zergs, allowing them to freely drone, when they should be pressuring z into make something other than drones. We'll see continued evolution of XvZ openers until build orders get ironed out with the changes. Especially while protoss figure out new timings. I'm personally looking forward to watching the meta develop. | ||
Poopi
France12992 Posts
On June 26 2026 11:27 mathphyswithvic wrote: So what I'm taking from this is that if you're not playing Zerg, you're forced into an aggressive playstyle to have a chance of winning? Great! so much for letting players choose how they want to play. You can’t really play aggro, because your eco is very bad. Zergs can remake drones super fast if they lose out to harass, or just make big enough army + Nice eco Basically you are kinda screwed no matter how you try to play in the current state of XvZ I highly doubt the top end zergs will lose to other players, and the subtops zergs will all feel like Serral for a while | ||
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geokilla
Canada8252 Posts
On June 26 2026 21:24 ProTech wrote: I can't for the life of me figure out why people are even whining about this. Yes it sucks, but it's so painfully obvious that it's broken you don't need to worry that it won't get reverted. Same w/ the void ray, although I don't think many people have figured that one out yet. I guarantee you that this patch is going to stick around for the rest of the year. | ||
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tigera6
3502 Posts
On June 27 2026 05:37 BluemoonSC wrote: I wasn't addressing your point because I was addressing someone claiming zerg can max out by 7:30 on live. but if you insist. I am not 100% convinced that the larva change on live is as bad as people are making it out to be. It's not as bad as PTR, Queens are still 175, hatches are back to 300, and they still have to spend a drone to make structures. I also don't think that the "it'll be the same builds but 30s slower" crowd is entirely correct because it seems to me that people are not applying enough pressure to zergs, allowing them to freely drone, when they should be pressuring z into make something other than drones. We'll see continued evolution of XvZ openers until build orders get ironed out with the changes. Especially while protoss figure out new timings. I'm personally looking forward to watching the meta develop. Its easy to say "people should apply more pressure" without telling how to do it better, all I know is that Zerg has an easier time to survive past the midgame with the balance change, Protoss has to re-learn their entire early build (could be better or worse) while Terran stay relatively the same. Also the timing is weird, we have the Final 4 of a 20k tournament about in start in less than 12hrs but lets ask the pro to "figure the meta", sure thanks. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8932 Posts
On June 27 2026 12:05 tigera6 wrote: Its easy to say "people should apply more pressure" without telling how to do it better, all I know is that Zerg has an easier time to survive past the midgame with the balance change, Protoss has to re-learn their entire early build (could be better or worse) while Terran stay relatively the same. Also the timing is weird, we have the Final 4 of a 20k tournament about in start in less than 12hrs but lets ask the pro to "figure the meta", sure thanks. I don't disagree with you that its frustrating to have to relearn your entire economy and production as protoss (i pointed this out as a major issue accompanying economic changes early in the ptr) but in all of the gameplay on live that I've watched, ive seen greedy, prior patch builds by p/t against Zerg. Literally today, Heromarine went reactor hellion, 3cc, cloaked banshee, +1/+1 bio and was upset that the zerg had 6 mutas out by the time he did all that and switched in to 8 rax marine production (he scouted the spire before it was completed). He still parried the mutas and won the game with only a few worker differential by the time mutas were out. Transport me back into a time before 12 workers and I'd say it would be crazy for a terran to be able to tech and expand so aggressively without being punished. All I'm saying is I am not 100% convinced that the larva is "broken" quite yet based on what I've been watching - it is definitely strong though! Have you seen different experiences on live? Two things can be true too - both tournaments should probably be using a mod to bring things back to the previous patch and not play on live bc it is unreasonable to expect they are prepared enough to play their best starcraft. This is the most sc2 fppov ive watched in a decade though, so I am here for all of this. | ||
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Athenau
577 Posts
On June 27 2026 12:31 BluemoonSC wrote: I don't disagree with you that its frustrating to have to relearn your entire economy and production as protoss (i pointed this out as a major issue accompanying economic changes early in the ptr) but in all of the gameplay on live that I've watched, ive seen greedy, prior patch builds by p/t against Zerg. Literally today, Heromarine went reactor hellion, 3cc, cloaked banshee, +1/+1 bio and was upset that the zerg had 6 mutas out by the time he did all that and switched in to 8 rax marine production (he scouted the spire before it was completed). He still parried the mutas and won the game with only a few worker differential by the time mutas were out. Transport me back into a time before 12 workers and I'd say it would be crazy for a terran to be able to tech and expand so aggressively without being punished. All I'm saying is I am not 100% convinced that the larva is "broken" quite yet based on what I've been watching - it is definitely strong though! Have you seen different experiences on live? Two things can be true too - both tournaments should probably be using a mod to bring things back to the previous patch and not play on live bc it is unreasonable to expect they are prepared enough to play their best starcraft. This is the most sc2 fppov ive watched in a decade though, so I am here for all of this. I'm curious as to why non-Zerg players should have to "adjust" to solve a problem that Blizzard created while Zerg players can blithely continue doing what they were doing before, except now they do it better relative to everyone else. | ||
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