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On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..)
You weren't in the last Newbie Student Mafia game. T.T WaveofShadow and Trfel were the perfect townies from start to end and fooled us all. So I don't really think this is something you should completely put your faith in.
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Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :|
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IN response to this:
On July 12 2015 02:27 MoosyDoosy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 01:49 TJHuggins wrote:My initial reads so far is that i am town leaning on Fidei. I like the things he said in relation to spamming, and I think that him relating the perspective to a previous game where he was town feels like he's looking at the game from the perspective of a town. When he responded to HTS regarding talking about anti-spam being easy, he seems genuine. Or maybe it's just because I like his writing. No clue. My initial scum read is Grokken. It's nothing all that strong but I'm getting a wierd feeling about the things he's posted. To me it feels like he is trying to find ways to participate and seem town by chiming in now and again but really has no clue what to write about. On July 11 2015 09:36 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 09:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
My blood sense is telling me to lynch everyone who knows what theyre doing We should listen to this guy, he seems to know what he is doing. On July 11 2015 13:27 Grokken wrote:On July 11 2015 10:44 NydusHerMain wrote:
Hi, back home. You guys are fucking boring me.
##Vote: Fidei
I don't like the way this guy posts early Can you elaborate on this? What in particular is it that you don't like? I think that one sentence posts that appear to contribute to the game and don't really offer anything just kind of irk me the wrong way. I guess it's worth noting he did write that thing about Dota as well which was also one sentence but that's neither here nor there when it comes to the game I think. When I went back and read the post about him showing off his dota stats that actually reads to me a bit more towny now that I think about it, so not really sure. just an initial read. I don't agree with this but let's see what Ghandi says.
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On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :|
Exactly what I was thinking. His first post seems to be more of a first page banter post. The second one is asking for clarification although as you say, it leads nowhere. But then again, newer players have a tendency to ask for clarification without having a drive behind it.
Any thoughts on the suspicion of you Ghandi? :3
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NydusHerMain please explain your shift in attitude as well. :3
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Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3
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I agree that it was grokken's town prodding question that got me suspicious of him in the first place.
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@Moosy If you want a monster filter do it yourself.
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On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..)
I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation.
That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742
was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this.
In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell.
The second quote that was called into question -
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148
First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on.
I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does.
I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know).
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@HTS Fair enough. It's difficult to disagree with anything you just posted.
@Scott Where are your thoughts following your reading of the thread? We want to hear from you. Don't make me tunnel you again 
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On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Grokken's first post seems pretty innocuous to me, and even if there was something sinister behind it, reading someone at all in the first few posts creates poor conclusions, imo.
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
Day 1 reads are all luck anyways :|
The irony here is that it did - although more on the asker of the question (Grokken) than the subject (NHM). In any case I do want to see what NHM says on Fidei's opening or subsequent posts.
Also find it interesting that Sulfurus tells MD to create his big filter, yet he doesnt' comment on anything MD has posted so far nor does he derive a conclusion from the latest quote MD posted about creating a big filter. Usually hanging back like this is a scum tell for a newbie player.
On July 12 2015 04:09 Sulfurus wrote:
@Moosy If you want a monster filter do it yourself.
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On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3
On this quote itself, this could be self-consciousness (a scum tell) or it could be an earnest townie just wanting to play the game, but then again scum wouldn't make this so obvious. Newbie scum....ehhhh probably not. Probably a slight townlean, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know how MD played last game.
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Right now its basically impossible to read into anything effectively, so Day 1 we might as well just flush out all of the lurkers, which I may work on when I get off work in a couple hours.
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On July 12 2015 04:27 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2015 02:59 MoosyDoosy wrote:
Let's talk guys. I want to create a monster filter so that no one can accuse me of Mafia. :3 On this quote itself, this could be self-consciousness (a scum tell) or it could be an earnest townie just wanting to play the game, but then again scum wouldn't make this so obvious. Newbie scum....ehhhh probably not. Probably a slight townlean, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know how MD played last game.
I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.
Also @Sulfurus, that's a terrible post. There's no way for me to make a monster filter without a conversation except by spamming which won't help us in any way.
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On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.
One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..) I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation. That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this. In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell. The second quote that was called into question - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148 First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on. I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does. I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know).
 I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for.
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^ But I did read it that same way btw.
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On July 11 2015 21:15 Half the Sky wrote:
noob why the vote on NHM? Can't tell whether your vote is a joke vote or not, the others I can.
If the vote were a joke, I'm not sure what about it is supposed to be funny. Like...what's the joke?
And my joke votes wouldn't go in the voting thread, and that one is in the voting thread. If you want to see a fake vote, you can look at the one on me from Sulfurus. He wastes space with a fakecheck and a fakevote, and then wastes more space by backreferencing them. That's all you get, from his first two posts. His third (and thus far, final) post is him essentially telling Moosy to "do stuff" without actually doing stuff himself. We get roughly the same amount of value from Kelsier's posts, in which he tells people to "start the game" without actually doing anything that would get the game going. If either of Kelsier/Sulfurus are town, they've already got a headstart on being useless town.
Okay, so why the vote on NHM? Two reasons.
1) At the time that NHM votes, there is only ONE player who has really expressed any interest in progressing the game. Fidei86. He was the only one (to that point) who had made a legitimate, "let's start thinking about the actual game itself" type of post. And that is who NHM chooses to vote against: the one player who showed an indication that they might be taking the game seriously.
2) The other reason should not be revealed yet.
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On July 12 2015 01:31 TJHuggins wrote:
I see "silentwarrior" is living up to his name.
And "WonnaPlay" apparently does not. It's funny to me that Scott already felt like he needed to "re-read" before he was comfortable saying anything...when we were only 2 pages into the game.
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On July 12 2015 02:32 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Second post there is sketchier to me, in that it seems serious in its attempts to prod the town, despite not actually bringing up any discussion that will lead to a conclusion. That's a little smelly to me. That said, it's tiny enough that it could fly either way.
On July 12 2015 02:53 MoosyDoosy wrote:Exactly what I was thinking. His first post seems to be more of a first page banter post. The second one is asking for clarification although as you say, it leads nowhere.
Grokken's post does not "prod the town" it only prods NHM. And since NHM hasn't responded, I agree with HtS that "there's nothing to follow up on."
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On July 12 2015 05:30 MoosyDoosy wrote:
I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.
Change things up in what way? Are you saying you want to vary your play? Or do you mean something else?
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EPT
