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Newbie Student Mafia XII

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
June 27 2015 10:03 GMT
#4
/obs

Sorry don't have time to actually play till like mid July.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
June 30 2015 09:39 GMT
#14
new player - played in 3 or fewer previous TL mafia games. That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible


This is fine, it is really clear if you read it carefully.

I think your brain sees 3 and it likes to make that assumption that 3 is the important number, but the way the text reads makes total sense. Especially with the word "previous" clarifying that it is mafia games PRIOR to this one that you are counting.


That means if this would be your 4th game, you are eligible


effectively reads the same as

That means if this would be your 4th game, you are still eligible


So both ways of saying it are fine. It's a clarification of the first point anyways which imo doesn't even need to be there.

My Point?
WonnaPlay is arguing semantics, and is clearly mafia.

##VOTE: WonnaPlay


WIFOM
+ Show Spoiler +
Or am I mafia for pushing on his arguing of semantics?
+ Show Spoiler +
We'll never know... I'm not playing this game!
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
June 30 2015 20:40 GMT
#23
On July 01 2015 02:14 GlowingBear wrote:
It could be better written, though. I think that's what the Dutch guy is trying to say


As a native English speaker I think it is written very clearly and is fine. I can't comment as to how it might read to a non-native english speaker though.

I'm not seeing what the confusion is though...

If I've played 0 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 1st game.

If I've played 1 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 2nd game.

If I've played 2 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 3rd game.

If I've played 3 games before and sign up for this one, this would be my 4th game.

In all those situations I am considered a newbie because I've played 3 or fewer games prior to this one.

Anyways, this horse is already pretty beaten so I'll leave it at that.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 16:46 GMT
#380
Hey guys, been following the game thus far... Good job on that D1 lynch!

I'm going to be a little touch and go with posting untill sometime late tomorow. I'm still on Holiday, but right at the end of it.

I'll need to reread things now that I'm official part of the game, but I think HtS and n00b are pretty much for sure town for how D1 played out. MD is also very likely town, but his posting sucks.

I'll be back a little later to share some scum reads.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 17:16 GMT
#383
On July 12 2015 01:02 scott31337 wrote:
Good Morning... Let me wake up a bit more and re-read, but I don't see a whole lot to go on so far that sticks out at me - except a slight town lean on Fidei.


This is literally scotts only post, and it is wierd that he would say he needs to reread anything on the 3rd page of the game.

I'm used to town!scott being more involved, so I'm thinking he rolled scum this game.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 17:32 GMT
#388
On July 12 2015 06:22 Grokken wrote:
I figure it's time for me to make an actual post now that the thread is getting more active.

Sulfurus:

Has made a few posts, but only one-liners and contentless posts. I know you are here and reading the thread, why not try to post something more useful? Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean.

WonnaPlay:

Should post so we know you're still alive.


n00bKing

I was just about to say that you haven't said anything of substance, but then I refresh the thread and there you are! You made some good points and seem to come to similar conclusions as I do, slight townread.

Fidei86:

Show nested quote +
On July 11 2015 09:14 Fidei86 wrote:
So I guess I'll dive in first, since the game needs to start somewhere.

My opinion on the ideal town environment is that it is one where everyone contributes, but nobody spams. The best way for townies to get town-read by other townies is to be active, to discuss things and to give your opinion freely. If you're lurking as town, you're actively hurting your own team. Even if you don't say much and make it to the later rounds, and even if you solve the game, you're an easy mislynch if your filter is only one or two pages long.

However, at the same time, too much back and forth leads to the thread becoming unmanageable for players with less time -- essentially allowing mafia to hide in amongst the noise. I don't want to over-traffic cop, and I'm hopeful it's not going to be a big problem this game, but ... there it is.


I checked the Himalayas thread, and it's true that there was a huge volume of posts. It seems reasonable to me that he wants to avoid spam in this game. Post makes sense to me, good advice for new players too I think he seems towny overall, posts a decent amount and keeps the thread active without spamming nonsense. Doesn't seem afraid to post what he thinks.


silentwarrior:

silentwarrior is living up to his name, as someone said earlier.

NydusHerMain:

Only real post is a random vote for Fidei. Seems inactive for now, lets wait until he gets back.

MoosyDoosy:

Has made some good posts in my opinion. In particular I agree with the following post:

Show nested quote +
On July 12 2015 05:35 MoosyDoosy wrote:
On July 12 2015 04:17 Half the Sky wrote:
On July 11 2015 22:32 Fidei86 wrote:
@HTS I agree that it's easy to talk anti-spam. And it's also obviously possible to play a perfectly good scum game without either spamming or lurking. But my view is that if we build a good town atmosphere with all townies being active but not spammy, it makes it much harder for even good scum players to hide. If I start lurking or spamming, that'll be a good sign I'm Mafia. But since I'm town, I'll do my best to stick to my words.

One thing that irks me is that I know that you aren't the biggest fan of spam either. Obviously this thread is much more in danger of being too quiet than too loud, but I would have hoped you'd join me echoing my words. Why the change of heart? Or have you just got your game face on (which, admittedly, wouldn't be very alignment indicative..)


I honestly didn't feel it needed repeating (it stood on its own) and just wanted to start seeing what I could get out of the thread. I definitely agree to discourage spam as much as possible but at the same time don't ignore the lurkers. Similarly as was already said, there are high volume posters that do play well as mafia. Sometimes you might also get a milder form of spam if you have too many conversational posters. I can't remember where I said this before but I've said it multiple times now - there's conversational and case based posting and inevitably some people are going to have longer filters if they do engage in long - even if useful - conversation.

That said I think either way if people keep things to the point, EBWOPs aside, spam really shouldn't be an issue. That said, this post by Grokken

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=129&topic_id=488742

was called into question and honestly I don't think this warrants a scum read - if he's scum, it's not going to be for this.

In the context of that entire conversation, there's nothing but sarcasm, to me it's just a cheeky post especially considering the "oh shit you got me" response Gandhi posted after that. The two of them (him and Gandhi) seem pretty carefree like they don't really care what people think of them, which actually warrant a town tell.

The second quote that was called into question -

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=8#148

First off - one liners aren't alignment indicative either way - like I said before someone might try to evaluate conversation as they have it. I don't think it's reasonable to scum read him largely because NHM hasn't been back to respond so how are you setting up the expectation already that he needs to follow up? There's nothing to follow up on.

I think Grokken is a townlean based on his first few posts, it is reasonable for a new player to question something that seems off or may warrant an explanation - and I agree it does.

I don't think TJ is being reasonable to set up the follow-up expectation when it's pretty clear where the expectation lies - the answer to that particular question. A haste to judgement is a scumlean (esp for a player I don't know).

I'd prefer it if you let Grokken speak for himself. This might have been the jail free card that he was looking for.


I was going to bring this up myself, but seems like you beat me to it. Although the defense is good, I think it would be better to just let me defend myself, especially because I haven't really posted much before now. MoosyDoosy is a townread for me.




TJHuggins:

Seems like town to me. He identifies me as someone who has no clue what to post, which is pretty accurate considering this is my first online mafia game (my only previous experience is some IRL mafia just before I signed up for this one). I think it makes sense as town to pressure inexperienced players, and try to make them slip up while defending themselves.


Grokken:

Thats me.

Open Slots:

scott31337: Seems to be lurking, no real contribution so far.


Half the Sky:

Seems like town to me. She (?) has made quite a few posts, with a lot of content and some good points. The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is that she defended me for seemingly no reason.

GhandiEAGLE:

He says that there isn't much to go by day 1. He hasn't really contributed too much, but the posts he has made feels slightly towny to me. He made a point to flush out the lurkers, which seems like a good idea.

KelsierSC

spamspamspamspamspamspamspam, don't know what to think.




In conclusion, I think we should try to lynch one of the people who is keeping up with the thread, but aren't making useful contributions. These people are in my opinion more likely to be mafia rather than the people who aren't saying anything at all. At this point, these people are Sulfurus, scott31337 and KelsierSC.

This is the first time I make a post like this one, sorry if the formatting is bad.


While this list post seemed to be early to the party, I think its overall not that bad. The reasons for Grok's reads are decent for how little had occured at that point in the game. Between this and one of his earlier posts that seemed casual and jokey I'm comfterable adding him to my town reads.

Oh also I doubt he would make a list post like this that calls out Sulf so early if he were mafia.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 17:48 GMT
#389
I can only do a one quote post atm since I'm on mobile, which wont work so well for Ghandi but I'm also willing to add him to my town reads for now. He had multiple posts I liked that pushed a towny agenda.

Going out for dinner now, will get back to this later when I am able.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 20:00 GMT
#398
Ok back from dinner and going to finish my catching up while I pack for my flight tomorrow.

On July 12 2015 23:33 TJHuggins wrote:
Right now I'm at the point where I feel comfortable enough to ##vote MoosyDoosy. (reasons here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/488742-newbie-student-mafia-xii?page=10#191)

I woke up this morning to see more posts from MD that read scum to me. I didn't think you were even allowed to vote for yourself. To me I haven't seen any protown content coming out of any of his posts, and his recent ones seem blatantly anti-town. And what really stands with me is that these are posts from someone who claims to apparently have been unanimously townread by all players but one in some recent previous forum mafia game. See his post on July 11 2015 at 16:30, ("I was an earnest townie last Newbie Student Mafia game with a monster filter. :3 Besides ruXxar everyone pretty much knew I was a townie which is why I want to change things up here and make things interesting.")

I'm not buying it that this is a result of you switching up your play.


So this was an interesting post to me. TJ had made one postregarding MD before where he scum read him, but decideds to vote him here. Nothing in his read had changed but now MD has votes on him which seems to make TJ more comfterable voting on him.

This along with other posts suggest to me that TJ is pushing an agenda over hunting for scum. I know HtS also made a case on him that I liked, but I need to reread it before I comment on her case.

I'm torn about TJ's EoD reaction. On the one hand I dont think scum would post like that In game over in their QT, but on the other hand I don't see town getting so worked up over that host mistake when it meant we lynched scum. The mistake had been discussed a fair bit as well (that MD cannot vote for himself) so it should not have been a suprise, yet he seemed genuinely upset that MD's vote on himself was not counted.

In addition TJ's reaction to that EoD seemed a lot like Sulf's reaction which raises some flags.

So, yea TJ is my top scum read atm.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 21:33 GMT
#400
On July 13 2015 06:31 TJHuggins wrote:
Figured I would post where I am at before EOD (for obvious reasons). Here's a scum list for me right now in order:

1. MoosyDoosy
2. Sulfuras
3. Grokken

Scott, NHM, and silentwarrior are all in a 3rd category for me which includes players that haven't impressed me with their content and have not left any last impact on me. Might be mafia, might be town. I would rather wait until day 2 to deal with this group since it may give them more time to provide content for me to figure out their alignment. Personally, I'd rather kill someone whos acting scummy than someone whos just a crap shoot (actually if this were video mafia I would pressure them and force them to talk but I can't really do that here.)

If at EOD 2 I still have nothing on those three, I would advocate to shooting, cop checking, lynching them. I would caution against vig shooting or cop checking any of the lurkers this night because I don't think it will really help progress our scum leads much. A vig shot is better saved on a clearly scummy person (same logic as above) and cop check better on someone whos a bit more active.



This post caught my eye as well. TJ spent at least one whole post saying why he felt MD and Grok were scum, yet suddenly Sulf just shows up 2nd in his list here, and gives no explanation for it.

This was after n00b and HtS started pushing Sulf as another possible lynch.

Btw, thats why I'm reading HtS and n00b as town since there is no chance they were bussing a teammate in that situation.

I'm reluctant to fully read Fidei as town right now... Like TJ, Fidei seemed to be ignoring Sulf up till this time in the game. However fidei was all too happy to jump on that wagon ... So he still gets a solid town lean.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 21:40 GMT
#401
Also, Heya to Scott and Fidei.

Kinda jumping in so wanted to get myself on some better footing with reads right off the bat, but always nice to see familiar faces... Er nametags?

@ HtS
I am currently in Geneva, but tonight is my last night here. Will be boarding a flight tomorrow morning back to the States.

I'm visiting my dad who moved out here a few years ago ( he works for the WMO), and did a crazy trip over the past week. We've been here in Geneva, Germany, and also Poland. Technically France as well but only for a short bit today.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 21:48 GMT
#403
On July 14 2015 02:48 n00bKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 02:16 Tictock wrote:
This is literally scotts only post, and it is wierd that he would say he needs to reread anything on the 3rd page of the game.

I'm used to town!scott being more involved, so I'm thinking he rolled scum this game.

Yeah, I made the same comment, about it being strange for him to say he needs to "re-read" when we had only just started. Scott COULD be scum here, but man...just how much "mailing it in" can we expect from one scum team? Sulf had like 5 posts, and Scott has 1? That's their gameplan?
Show nested quote +
Ticktock wrote: Oh also I doubt he [Grokken] would make a list post like this that calls out Sulf so early if he were mafia.

Still think "Neutral read so far, maybe slight scumlean" is not much of a call-out. But I wouldn't push for a vigilante shot on Grokken or anything. So there will be more time to evaluate him. (Though I may not be around for that, since I've been killed on Night 1 in 100% of my TL Mafia games! And Fidei requesting that HtS receive protection clears the way for my demise!)


You are correct it is not much of a call out, however Sulf was the first person he listed as his scumreads.

I just dont see scum making a list post that early that lists a teammate so highly on the list.

I might be giving him too much credit for that, but its stronger than a meta or tone read imo.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 21:55 GMT
#404
On July 14 2015 03:52 scott31337 wrote:
FINAL VOTE COUNT


Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain

Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy

I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top.
I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy.

TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy


This is probably very solid. Very unlikely that mafia buss their teammate in this situation when MD is another option.

The only situation where things get tricky is if MD is in fact mafia as well here...

Seems unlikely to me, but also means MD is an ok Cop check.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 22:06 GMT
#408
Humm yea KSC was not who I expectedto see NK'd.

Looks like a medic dodge to me for sure. Don't recall KSC having very solid reads on anyone.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 22:19 GMT
#412
On July 14 2015 07:13 Half the Sky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 06:40 Tictock wrote:
@ HtS
I am currently in Geneva, but tonight is my last night here. Will be boarding a flight tomorrow morning back to the States.

I'm visiting my dad who moved out here a few years ago ( he works for the WMO), and did a crazy trip over the past week. We've been here in Geneva, Germany, and also Poland. Technically France as well but only for a short bit today.


Very nice. I hope you enjoyed your holiday! Sounds like a blast.

Speaking of life on the road, I'm headed to Munich for work in about 3 weeks time after a trip to the States (specifically NYC) starting Friday for 3 weeks (again for work) so I'm headed for a very interesting road trip myself.


Very cool, I have not had the chance to visit NYC myself, but that should be a fun trip.

Hopefully its not all work and you get some time to Play! (No I'm not talking about Mafia :p )

If you are ever in Colorado feel free to drop me a PM.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 13 2015 22:27 GMT
#413
Ok I need to head to bed, and I'm not sure how much I'll be around tomorrow so going to drop my vote now.

##Vote: TJHuggins

I've already made a few posts explaining my read on him and HtS also made a semi case.

I'm not sure who the other scum might be but my gut tells me it's not Grok (also I have a town read on Grok) and is one of the non-voters. Just not sure who yet.

I will be back home before the end of D2 so fear not, I shall return.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 14 2015 05:23 GMT
#448
On July 14 2015 08:45 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
9) HtS
Untouchable right now. No fun there :<


This is such a weird way to say you think HtS is town...

As others have pointed out that whole reads post seems really off as well. A lot of your reads seem to move in one direction but you conclude the opposite. Nothing is well explained either.

Like your Fidei read, hes voting for you and that makes him town? That makes little sense, if Ghandi is town then Fidei voting for him should make Ghandi worried that Fidei could be mafia not convince him he is town.

Also that lie/mistake about TJ feels really wierd too, Fidei might very well be onto something there.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 14 2015 05:39 GMT
#449
On July 14 2015 10:37 scott31337 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 14 2015 06:55 Tictock wrote:
On July 14 2015 03:52 scott31337 wrote:
FINAL VOTE COUNT


Sulfurus(4):Half the Sky, Fidei86, Kelsier SC, Noobking
MoosyDoosy(3): Grokken, TJHuggins, Sulfurus
NydusHerMain (1): silentwarrior
Fidei86(1): NydusHerMain

Not Voting(4): WonnaPlay, scott31337, GhandiEAGLE. MoosyDoosy

I mean I have to believe everyone on Sulf is town - with HtS at the top.
I'm going to re-read every one on Moosy.

TT replaced NHM. Welcome ol' buddy


This is probably very solid. Very unlikely that mafia buss their teammate in this situation when MD is another option.

The only situation where things get tricky is if MD is in fact mafia as well here...

Seems unlikely to me, but also means MD is an ok Cop check.


Why is MD a cop check? Please explain more from your reasoning.


My reasoning was in the post you quoted.

MD is playing the role of easy lynchbait, which is why I am leaning town on him. His posts make little sense for scum, at least to me.

He was clearly being scum read by a lot of people however, and the only way we don't get a lot of confirmed town off the D1 votes is if MD is in fact mafia here.

Thus I was saying MD was an ok Cop check for those reasons. Since I posted that so close to the start of D2 I guess it was more of a "I can see why someone might Cop check MD" than " Someone should cop check MD"

Just in case we do have a Cop and before this discussion is brought up, there is no reason to claim just yet. It is better to hold off any claims till it benefits town more.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 14 2015 05:44 GMT
#450
Oh also, I'd like to remind people that there is no guarantee that the mafia team has experienced players on it.

Since this is a newbie game the scum team has a coach to help them make better choices. Thus a seemingly well thought out NK does not for sure mean there is a veteran player on the scum team, it could easily just mean they have a solid coach.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 14 2015 09:53 GMT
#455
On July 14 2015 15:12 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
I'm still not voting for TJ yet because Fidei is hardly the most pressing case when you look at some of the other people in the game right now, and I didn't think the bandwagon needed more momentum.


Yea... You're scum.

Fidei should have nothing to do with voting for TJ, you are the only person to be trying to make an association between the two. In my mind Fidei pushing on people other than TJ is great for town since there are still 2 scum left and there was no clear associations between Sulf and anyone. Pre-flip associations like this are terrible for town and likely scum modivated to push mislynches.

@ Fidei

Sorry you feel like I'm misrepresenting you, I suppose I should have typed pushing instead of voting. Doesn't seem like a big difference to me though since it was pretty clear where your head was at in regards to Ghandi.

Still, given our last game together I would find it odd if you weren't weary of me. So more town points for you.
I can take that responsibility.
Tictock
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6051 Posts
July 14 2015 10:00 GMT
#456
I'm waiting for my flight back to the States in Frankfurt at the moment so am around for the next hour or so if anyone wants to chat.

After this hour I will be in the air for about 10 hours, but I'll be checking in and whatnot when I arrive home tonight. I should be around for EoD as well assuming I'm not completely messed up by timezone stuff.
I can take that responsibility.
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