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Vivax
22013 Posts
On March 17 2024 03:58 Jealous wrote: God damn this looks so damn bad, if Vivax wasn't basically confirmed town this would just look atrocious lmao. Vivax's claim D1 has done like 99% of the heavy lifting for him. Which is why it was good. I'll take it as praise from a scum for making the game harder for them. | ||
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Vivax
22013 Posts
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Jealous
10170 Posts
On March 09 2024 09:22 Vivax wrote: Go back and buy a coke maybe then you can post the entire team. God tier post btw, one of my favorites in the whole game. | ||
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justanothertownie
16319 Posts
On March 17 2024 04:04 Vivax wrote: Even if rayn got elected and he claimed joat later he'd still be open for tinfoil you can't pull that off with me Funny if that was ironic  | ||
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Vivax
22013 Posts
It's firmly stuck it's like a trauma reaction | ||
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Vivax
22013 Posts
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Jealous
10170 Posts
On March 16 2024 18:53 Palmar wrote: Iamp, being annoying as he usually is, complained about me not talking about MZ. That is actually a really good point. To me MZ has been the most invisible player in the game. My thoughts on the rest of the content of that post aside, I thought "Hmmm, that is a good point, and I kind of share that perception with Palmar." This reminded me of D2 and MZ's switch onto VE. At the time, they got away with it pretty easily all things considered, as there were still bigger fish to fry in most people's minds (for me it was CopCake, for many others it was still VE, etc.) and because we had far fewer flips to reliably narrow down who among the VE wagon might be scum. Seeing iamp's post with the D2 vote count further solidified for me the need to go back and get an accurate timeline of MZ's progression from what I recalled to be a firm "lynch Oats" stance to then ending up on town!VE. Times will be in EST because that's just easier for me but I'll provide links. I'll be omitting/not commenting on some of the more repetitive stuff, like the second calculator post. Night of March 6th - 7th 22:00 - D2 starts 22:11 - Slam posts Oats' red flip. 22:17 - MZ states that they are willing to lynch Oats to remove the possibility of framer/miller. 22:22 - MZ votes for Oats. 22:54 - Still considers VE the next-best lynch target. Laying the foundation? 22:55 - Making another point on VE: "like this post sounds like resigned scum who doesn't have much to talk about and is watching one of their team members go down to a red check." 23:17 - Vote count is 7 on Oats including MZ, 1 on DMB (Oats). 23:42 - Starts pressuring CopCake on Slam vs. Oats, possibility of Slam being scum, 1-for-1 situation, etc. 23:51 23:54 00:00 - Three more posts in the above line of pressuring CopCake. 00:08 - Infamous math post; "Me personally, I'm taking that [chance that Oats is scum] every time." 00:10 - CopCake votes Oats; "Welcome to the correct answer 12 pages later." Day of March 7th 08:36 - Says that they will be out for most of the day due to a flight. 08:49 08:52 - Makes defensive posts against Koshi's scum read on MZ, which is based mostly on meta stuff. Repeats twice that the vote has to be on the red check. "If you were arguing for someone like VE I'd still say you're wrong because the chance this check is wrong is so low." 08:56 - "Everyone who has called into question Slam's check in anyway is instantly less town to me." 08:59 - Another defensive post against Koshi, pointing out that Oats has been trying to push MZ as an alternative to himself, and that's why Koshi's world view is wrong. We're going to jump ahead of the timeline here for a bit for the sake of continuity: Oats flailed a lot in the evening of March 6th EST by pressuring, casting doubt upon, and scumreading a lot of people. Examples: Me, me again, DMB, VE, and JAT. Only after MZ's math post we get Oats being triggered and making a case on MZ. Oats then accuses MZ of just wanting to park their vote on him based on the previous interaction with CopCake. Oats then goes on to chime in to bus TTS in the very next post, so we know he has no qualms about doing so when it works to his advantage. At this point we are up to 6 people Oats has pushed as potential alternative wagons. Oats then continues to push JAT as scum, later busses and votes TTS, but his pressure against JAT continues for many posts until the lynch. He then votes JAT. We will get back to Oats vs. MZ later, but at this point, my conclusion is that MZ really hasn't been pushed all that hard by Oats, not even a vote over TTS. It was all done based on one bad math post and Oats moved on to his next target. 09:05 - More defense against Koshi, now saying that it "pinged" MZ that Koshi is making this case. Basically a low level retaliatory scum read, especially in retrospect. 09:08 - Still pushing the Oats lynch hard. 09:10 - Now it's "Why Palmar and not VE?" 09:28 - "We could instead be discussing VE or TTS or even yourself [marv]..." 09:45 - 10 on Oats including MZ, 1 on DMB (Oats). 09:54 - "There is a lot of uncertainty right now in my eyes with people like Copcake/DMB/JAT/Marv they would be better topics. We could also discuss VE a bit more, while I'm pretty sold he's lurking scum, some folks may still have him as town so we could be fleshing that out." Night of March 7th - 8th 20:55 - 10 on Oats, 2 on JAT, 1 on TTS. Oats first goes to TTS then to JAT. Iamperfection went from Oats to TTS. 20:56 - Pings marv because "Crazy how you set up the premise of scum just rolling with a red check and I come back to the thread to find eveyrone looking for reasons not to lynch a red check. How convenient." Basically, still firmly on Oats. 21:02 - Chastising Koshi, still firms on Oats. There are several more posts like this directed to Vivax and Oats as well. Another at 21:12. Oats posts: 21:04 21:08 - Oats is sowing the seeds of doubt in MZ. "they can't all be mafia so..." 21:09 - MZ still talking about marv, saying they have "metas suspicions" of marv, still pushing the red check. 21:17 - MZ still talking about marv, still firmly on Oats. I'm going to stop cataloguing every single one of these because ther are so many. Basically all of page 8 from MZ's filter. Oats post: 21:34 - "10/10 would lynch ve as well" 21:57 - Pointing this one out because MZ catalogues all the people who suggested alternatives to Oats. Summarized list: 1. iamp suggests TTS 2. Koshi says we should lynch Oats, lists Rels/MZ/VE/Palmar. Throws in Jacob too. 3. Vivax saying he won't vote Oats, votes marv. "You’re right vivax, koshi hasn’t been a factor since I left the thread this morning." "Also This does not clear marv in anyway, if anything I find it funny hes now doing what he said scum would do and just go along with the lynch." 22:46 - "I think that is naive to think that the town will have the discipline to come back to a red check if they pass it over once. A lot can change in a single day cycle." As I mention here, doesn't this seem awfully prophetic? 23:34 - MZ starting to show signs of cracking, by basically blaming 10 people for reading Oats as town but still knowing it is the right vote at this point. "I can't believe I'm even considering this seriously." Somehow, we are supposed to believe that other people's reads are more important to MZ than their votes or MZ's own belief in what is the objectively right thing to do, something hey have chastised several others for not also believing in the preceding 24 hours? 00:44 - Gives a half-hearted townread on DMB; "at the end of the day I see more scum in VE/Marv at this point." 01:03 - Scumreads marv due to meta. ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/CA2ERl3.jpeg) If you know, you know... Day of March 8th 08:32 - 9 on Oats including MZ, 2 on Palmar, 1 on JAT, 1 on TTS, 1 on VE. Koshi switched from Oats to VE. Oats switched to Palmar. CopCake switched to Palmar. 11:14 - First post back ends with "What do you think of this VE push?" 11:31 - "The biggest thing for me right now are the amount of people who voted Oats while calling him town. People caveating their votes like that is making me second guess some things." 11:58 - "In a vacuum I think he's going to flip red because of how unlikely it is for either of those events to occur. But everyone being so wishy washy with their votes is making me uncomfortable." 12:12 - We are now approaching full walkback mode. "People not overcoming their personal read in the face of a red check and voting with their read is at least more honest than not overcoming that read but still voting for the red check." Evening of March 8th 18:11 - "Slam talks about Oats a lot in his filter, if you were going to target slam with a framer, all you'd have to do is pick from his scum reads which he doesn't have a bunch of and your math gets a lot better." 18:27 - Re: CopCake: "If she actually cared about not lynching Oats, VE already had to votes on him when she voted jealous. Instead she just yeets her vote out a window." 18:36 - Re: Palmar: "That said, his decision to park his vote on VE instead of just throwing it on someone random like copcake sits a little better with me, assuming VE is scum, because now the vote count is pretty close and I can't imagine if he was scum with VE he'd risk that." <- Setting up the WIFOM? 18:46 - "I actually am pretty set on copcake being scum at the moment, her votes are just horrible for a townie. It begs the question why doesn't she want to be on Oats." 19:17 - MZ switches to VE. "fuckit" 19:21 - "I went to the store and got some groceries and realized pretty much every realistic scum team scenario I was trying to figure out did not contain Oats but definitely included VE." 19:46 - "I've spent most of today trying to figure this out, at least I'm more certain of this move because it's VE." 19:59 - "Slam Ninja'd back onto Oats so I think this is probably gonna be a nonstarter." 21:08 - To Oats: "Damn dude we very similar reads and I came around to the idea that you were town and you're still scumreading me? I have spent far too much time over the last day trying to discern your alignment, I'm sticking with town." 22:07 - "Gj to the folks who stuck that lynch through, should have stuck with my gut and not get lost in the vivax/koshi sauce there. Oh well, my fault for talking myself into it." Voting Breakdown 22:22 - MZ votes for Oats. 23:17 - 7 on Oats including MZ, 1 on DMB (Oats). 09:45 - 10 on Oats including MZ, 1 on DMB (Oats). 20:55 - 10 on Oats including MZ, 2 on JAT, 1 on TTS. Oats first goes to TTS then to JAT. Iamperfection went from Oats to TTS. 08:32 - 9 on Oats including MZ, 2 on Palmar, 1 on JAT, 1 on TTS, 1 on VE. Koshi switched from Oats to VE. Oats switched to Palmar. CopCake switched to Palmar. 13:41 - 10 on Oats including MZ, 3 on VE, 1 on JAT, 1 on Jealous. Oats and iamp switched to VE. CopCake switched to Jealous. Marv voted Oats. 19:17 - MZ switches to VE. 19:49 - 9 on Oats not including MZ, 5 on VE, 1 on Palmar, 1 on Jealous. Order of switches: 1. Vivax switched to VE. 2. Palmar switched to VE. 3. Slam switched to VE. 4. iamp switched to Palmar. 5. JSL switched to Palmar. 6. MZ switched to VE. <- They were the last to do so after the wagon started taking off here. At this point there were 7 votes on Oats and they became the 6th vote on VE. Pushing it into easy ML territory. 7. JSL switched to Oats. <- Town hero btw. 8. Slam switched to Oats. <- Town hero btw. It's almost like he baited out MZ here. 21:51 - 9 on Oats not including MZ, 7 on VE. Order of switches: 1. iamp switched to VE. 2. CopCake switched to Palmar. 3. CopCake switched to VE. <- "How many scummy things can town do in one game" record holder btw. Final Vote Breakdown:: On March 09 2024 11:51 Grackaroni wrote: Oatsmaster (9): VisceraEyes (7): Koshi, Oatsmaster, Conclusion:: I think it's time to stop ignoring what is, in my opinion, objectively the biggest potential scum tell left in the game. MZ was not alone in this. To my recollection, MZ's transition from Oats to VE was the most unnatural. However, we need to hear from iamp and Palmar, in that order. Vivax, this was still a bad call for you. ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
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Jealous
10170 Posts
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Grackaroni
United States9846 Posts
Jealous (3): Justanothertownie, DarthPunk, Vivax Palmar (1): Rels Meapak_Ziphh (1): Jealous Not Voting (4): Meapak_Ziphh, Palmar, die_meatbaby, iamperfection With 3 votes, Jealous is currently set to be lynched! The deadline is Monday, Mar 18 2:00am GMT (GMT+00:00), which is in | ||
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Jealous
10170 Posts
On March 17 2024 04:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I mean... well done posting my entire filter for a 3 day stretch? I have been abundantly clear on what I was thinking, when I was thinking it, and why I was thinking it. It's very convenient that this case comes the day after I started putting pressure on you for whatever the fuck happened after yesterday's deadline. It's also gotten you out of having to defend or explain your scumreads of Palmar, Rels, or DMB. I think I did a pretty good job on Palmar tbh. I'll take a dive on Rels later today, tired of reading for now. DMB is apparently off-limits and I got chastised for pursuing it so it is what it is, plus I think I'll go insane if I have to read their filter again. | ||
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Vivax
22013 Posts
Might need updating after his case | ||
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Jealous
10170 Posts
On March 17 2024 05:04 Vivax wrote: MZ what‘s your gender? Might need updating after his case Lmfao 😂 | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On March 17 2024 04:58 Jealous wrote: I think I did a pretty good job on Palmar tbh. I'll take a dive on Rels later today, tired of reading for now. DMB is apparently off-limits and I got chastised for pursuing it so it is what it is, plus I think I'll go insane if I have to read their filter again. Dude this: --"Conclusion"-- I think that Palmar is pretty hard to put a finger on. Did he type a lot of things? Yes. Were some of them good-sounding? Assuredly so. Does he have strong convictions, drive, and does he ever put himself into any significant danger? No. This was your conclusion on Palmar. Like you refused to outright scum read him despite him being #2 on your list of scum targets and just chickened out with "pretty hard to put a finger on." I don't believe this read any more than I believe you forgot Koshi had died last night. Also your "case" (summarizing my D2) is now perfectly set up for Palmar to push without actually ever having to do work himself. If you get me mislynched today, Palmar's hands will still be clean. | ||
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Vivax
22013 Posts
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote: I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous. It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. It's literally just a summary of what I posted. I've already explained and reexplained where I was coming from. But I read his post in the context that I posted this 3 hours ago: On March 17 2024 01:47 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: This sounds like pure scum frustration right here realizing that despite all the shade he's been throwing me this game, nobody has bitten hard on it and he doesn't actually have a case. If he ever "finishes" reading my filter I'm gonna be super stoked to see what sort of case he comes up with. He's grasping at straws and he knows it. It's funny how the best he can manage is "passive mafia" and then put that phrase in this sort of post. Like his post is the epitome of passive mafia right here. Pointing out Palmar's lack of case on me. Very very convenient timing for him to develop that read after not having me on his scum list up until this morning. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9643 Posts
On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote: I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous. It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9643 Posts
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Jealous
10170 Posts
On March 17 2024 05:10 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: It's literally just a summary of what I posted. I've already explained and reexplained where I was coming from. But I read his post in the context that I posted this 3 hours ago: Pointing out Palmar's lack of case on me. Very very convenient timing for him to develop that read after not having me on his scum list up until this morning. If you think this took me only 3 hours in between lunch + YT video, text messages with friends and family, and responding to other posts here, then you must think very highly of me, thank you. FWIW I started some time between these two posts, so about 5 hours ago: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=462#9225 https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=462#9231 So anything that happened after wasn't really a factor, I was gonna do this anyway. The actual post that inspired me to do this was indeed Palmar's though, it's the one I quoted at the top, from last night: https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=460#9200 On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote: I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous. It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. I am above that level of hypocrisy 🍻 #drunkposters4life | ||
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Jealous
10170 Posts
On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote: what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote: Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall. | ||
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