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On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on?
I'm voting Palmar now, I think Jealous is prepping a defense of him which looks bad but Palmar has still done jack shit and I'm gonna honor the Koshi reads.
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On March 17 2024 05:25 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote:On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote:
I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous.
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall.
So you now think that Palmar and I can't be scum together? Is that what you're saying here?
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On March 17 2024 05:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:25 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote:On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote:
I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous.
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall. So you now think that Palmar and I can't be scum together? Is that what you're saying here?
Not sure how you got that from what I said. I think it's possible, because I don't think that the mason chat was AI.
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On March 17 2024 05:29 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:25 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote:On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote:
I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous.
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall. So you now think that Palmar and I can't be scum together? Is that what you're saying here? Not sure how you got that from what I said. I think it's possible, because I don't think that the mason chat was AI.
Ah so Palmar is still scum, is he your second highest read now after me? Or where has he shuffled out on the list.
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On March 17 2024 05:06 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 04:58 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 04:49 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
I mean... well done posting my entire filter for a 3 day stretch? I have been abundantly clear on what I was thinking, when I was thinking it, and why I was thinking it. It's very convenient that this case comes the day after I started putting pressure on you for whatever the fuck happened after yesterday's deadline. It's also gotten you out of having to defend or explain your scumreads of Palmar, Rels, or DMB. I think I did a pretty good job on Palmar tbh. I'll take a dive on Rels later today, tired of reading for now. DMB is apparently off-limits and I got chastised for pursuing it so it is what it is, plus I think I'll go insane if I have to read their filter again. Dude this: Show nested quote +--"Conclusion"--
I think that Palmar is pretty hard to put a finger on. Did he type a lot of things? Yes. Were some of them good-sounding? Assuredly so. Does he have strong convictions, drive, and does he ever put himself into any significant danger? No. This was your conclusion on Palmar. Like you refused to outright scum read him despite him being #2 on your list of scum targets and just chickened out with "pretty hard to put a finger on." I don't believe this read any more than I believe you forgot Koshi had died last night. Also your "case" (summarizing my D2) is now perfectly set up for Palmar to push without actually ever having to do work himself. If you get me mislynched today, Palmar's hands will still be clean.
FWIW by "pretty hard to put a finger on" was more about his general lack of conviction, which was what my last sentence in that paragraph was addressing, which is also why I put him down as scummier than iamp and JAT in the end. It felt more like a person trying to not make too many waves than iamp and JAT who were more outspoken and aggressive at times, even if it was to their detriment and/or they were wrong.
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On March 17 2024 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:29 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:25 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote:On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote:
I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous.
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall. So you now think that Palmar and I can't be scum together? Is that what you're saying here? Not sure how you got that from what I said. I think it's possible, because I don't think that the mason chat was AI. Ah so Palmar is still scum, is he your second highest read now after me? Or where has he shuffled out on the list.
Yea I'd probably say you are more lynchable than him now for me. Still have to look at Rels, also hoping Palmar and iamp address the fact that they too were on that horrible wagon, iamp being the last vote to stick on VE twice even, though as I said before the fact that the second VE vote was TvT with CopCake makes it overall less egregious IMO. And again, if someone else could do the work of looking into their read progressions on Oats instead of just getting the posters-in-question' self-testimonies, that would be a big help IMO.
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On March 09 2024 06:59 Palmar wrote:
Meapak_Ziphh - lack of investigation from me, I'm masoned with the dude but I'm a terrible mason partner because I think they're stupid. That's mostly on me. I also recall some of his posting being a little meek
Found the post I was thinking of. It is interesting to me how this contrasts a bit with the following:
On March 06 2024 07:19 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 07:16 Vivax wrote:
I'm retownreading Sandro.
If Palmar is mafia it's Trfel and JAT on the bus train atm. Maybe even Slam. Slam looks decidedly worse this game than last, but I also had the mason thing with him in that game which was very helpful in reading him. I'm on the fence about slam and rayn, I actually don't think Trfel is mafia, but it's a weak townread.
Maybe that's just a Slam-specific thing, though.
Also found this, not exactly relevant to the above exploration but kinda:
On March 07 2024 01:02 Palmar wrote:
I think it's possible that marv, rayn and sandroba are mafia (varying degrees of possibility) and I don't care who masoned who.
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Overall I'd say that MZ looks more townie in the mason chat alone, though it wouldn't be too hard to fake that and leading off with a TR does feel a little awkward unprompted IMO. Kinda like you're buttering him up, which I think is possible as both SvT and TvS and TvT for that matter, so really goes back to my thinking that it is NAI or WIFOM at best.
Palmar just looks wholly disinterested which I think leans slightly more scummy overall but that is WIFOM too, I imagine scum would in general at least try to look interested. If he truly thinks they are stupid then it's NAI, it would have to be a belief that he has in a vacuum outside of this specific game. I guess if anyone has masoned before with Palmar outside of Slam, now would be a good time to compare that to previous occurrences to see if there is some inconsistency there.
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On March 17 2024 05:36 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:29 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:25 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote:On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote:
I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous.
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall. So you now think that Palmar and I can't be scum together? Is that what you're saying here? Not sure how you got that from what I said. I think it's possible, because I don't think that the mason chat was AI. Ah so Palmar is still scum, is he your second highest read now after me? Or where has he shuffled out on the list. Yea I'd probably say you are more lynchable than him now for me. Still have to look at Rels, also hoping Palmar and iamp address the fact that they too were on that horrible wagon, iamp being the last vote to stick on VE twice even, though as I said before the fact that the second VE vote was TvT with CopCake makes it overall less egregious IMO. And again, if someone else could do the work of looking into their read progressions on Oats instead of just getting the posters-in-question' self-testimonies, that would be a big help IMO.
Can you elaborate why palmar is less lynchable than mz in your opinion?
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The votes would suggest otherwise.
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On March 17 2024 05:57 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:36 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:29 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:25 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote:On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote:
I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous.
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall. So you now think that Palmar and I can't be scum together? Is that what you're saying here? Not sure how you got that from what I said. I think it's possible, because I don't think that the mason chat was AI. Ah so Palmar is still scum, is he your second highest read now after me? Or where has he shuffled out on the list. Yea I'd probably say you are more lynchable than him now for me. Still have to look at Rels, also hoping Palmar and iamp address the fact that they too were on that horrible wagon, iamp being the last vote to stick on VE twice even, though as I said before the fact that the second VE vote was TvT with CopCake makes it overall less egregious IMO. And again, if someone else could do the work of looking into their read progressions on Oats instead of just getting the posters-in-question' self-testimonies, that would be a big help IMO. Can you elaborate why palmar is less lynchable than mz in your opinion?
I mean, I think it's pretty close.
MZ pushed the vote to being a 1 vote difference between Oats and VE, so he seems to me to be a better choice. MZ completely changing their philosophy on the proper way to play mafia as a whole generates a fair amount of disbelief in the narrative for me.
I really don't want to do this because I'm pretty mafia-d out at the moment, but it looks like I'll have to go back into Palmar's filter to refresh my memory for how he made the jump from Oats to VE to compare. Heading out for a very late lunch right now, maybe I'll scroll when I go out for a smoke break after.
Do you hold the opposite opinion? Why or why not?
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On March 17 2024 06:03 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:57 justanothertownie wrote:On March 17 2024 05:36 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:29 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:25 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote:On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote:
I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous.
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall. So you now think that Palmar and I can't be scum together? Is that what you're saying here? Not sure how you got that from what I said. I think it's possible, because I don't think that the mason chat was AI. Ah so Palmar is still scum, is he your second highest read now after me? Or where has he shuffled out on the list. Yea I'd probably say you are more lynchable than him now for me. Still have to look at Rels, also hoping Palmar and iamp address the fact that they too were on that horrible wagon, iamp being the last vote to stick on VE twice even, though as I said before the fact that the second VE vote was TvT with CopCake makes it overall less egregious IMO. And again, if someone else could do the work of looking into their read progressions on Oats instead of just getting the posters-in-question' self-testimonies, that would be a big help IMO. Can you elaborate why palmar is less lynchable than mz in your opinion? I mean, I think it's pretty close. MZ pushed the vote to being a 1 vote difference between Oats and VE, so he seems to me to be a better choice. MZ completely changing their philosophy on the proper way to play mafia as a whole generates a fair amount of disbelief in the narrative for me. I really don't want to do this because I'm pretty mafia-d out at the moment, but it looks like I'll have to go back into Palmar's filter to refresh my memory for how he made the jump from Oats to VE to compare. Heading out for a very late lunch right now, maybe I'll scroll when I go out for a smoke break after. Do you hold the opposite opinion? Why or why not?
I was just trying to understand your thought process. I understood lynchable as "easy to lynch" - but it seems you meant "a good lynch" . Which did not make sense to me.
You know my opinion on Palmar. I don't think he is "lynch able" today.
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I also commented on MZs day1 progression in my large post about him. It is objectively scummy. But also extremely brazen if he is mafia.
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On March 17 2024 06:06 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 06:03 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:57 justanothertownie wrote:On March 17 2024 05:36 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:29 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:25 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote:On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote:
I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous.
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall. So you now think that Palmar and I can't be scum together? Is that what you're saying here? Not sure how you got that from what I said. I think it's possible, because I don't think that the mason chat was AI. Ah so Palmar is still scum, is he your second highest read now after me? Or where has he shuffled out on the list. Yea I'd probably say you are more lynchable than him now for me. Still have to look at Rels, also hoping Palmar and iamp address the fact that they too were on that horrible wagon, iamp being the last vote to stick on VE twice even, though as I said before the fact that the second VE vote was TvT with CopCake makes it overall less egregious IMO. And again, if someone else could do the work of looking into their read progressions on Oats instead of just getting the posters-in-question' self-testimonies, that would be a big help IMO. Can you elaborate why palmar is less lynchable than mz in your opinion? I mean, I think it's pretty close. MZ pushed the vote to being a 1 vote difference between Oats and VE, so he seems to me to be a better choice. MZ completely changing their philosophy on the proper way to play mafia as a whole generates a fair amount of disbelief in the narrative for me. I really don't want to do this because I'm pretty mafia-d out at the moment, but it looks like I'll have to go back into Palmar's filter to refresh my memory for how he made the jump from Oats to VE to compare. Heading out for a very late lunch right now, maybe I'll scroll when I go out for a smoke break after. Do you hold the opposite opinion? Why or why not? I was just trying to understand your thought process. I understood lynchable as "easy to lynch" - but it seems you meant "a good lynch" . Which did not make sense to me. You know my opinion on Palmar. I don't think he is "lynch able" today.
Ah yea I meant it like "good lynch."
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On March 17 2024 05:26 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? I'm voting Palmar now, I think Jealous is prepping a defense of him which looks bad but Palmar has still done jack shit and I'm gonna honor the Koshi reads.
Hey Mz. You actually know me well enough.
Do you stand by the statement that I have done “jack shit” on day 4?
And now on day 5. Do you believe that me playing less on a weekend is alignment indicative?
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On March 17 2024 05:48 Jealous wrote:
Overall I'd say that MZ looks more townie in the mason chat alone, though it wouldn't be too hard to fake that and leading off with a TR does feel a little awkward unprompted IMO. Kinda like you're buttering him up, which I think is possible as both SvT and TvS and TvT for that matter, so really goes back to my thinking that it is NAI or WIFOM at best.
Palmar just looks wholly disinterested which I think leans slightly more scummy overall but that is WIFOM too, I imagine scum would in general at least try to look interested. If he truly thinks they are stupid then it's NAI, it would have to be a belief that he has in a vacuum outside of this specific game. I guess if anyone has masoned before with Palmar outside of Slam, now would be a good time to compare that to previous occurrences to see if there is some inconsistency there.
And you too. I am very interested in this game. I’m one of like the top 3 players in terms of games played and this may be the longest filter I’ve ever produced. I am very interested in the game.
No idea why people feel comfortable pushing the idea I’m not interested or haven’t done stuff. If you wanna push that I’ve been wrong or that I’ve been unsure or flip floppy or whatever that’s fine. But I am absolutely interested
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On March 17 2024 05:36 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2024 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:29 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:28 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 17 2024 05:25 Jealous wrote:On March 17 2024 05:16 iamperfection wrote:On March 17 2024 05:06 Vivax wrote:
I think it‘s a case made with the help of scripts or something, maybe some ghostwriters who slave for Jealous.
It‘s still a bit disconnected from the game. There is no emphasis of MZ drunkposting during D2 when I briefly thought it made him 100% mafia. Those would be great to leverage his arguments. what a giga chad if its not using scripts though. I type really fast. On March 17 2024 05:18 iamperfection wrote:
Jealous did you read the whole palmar mz mason dynamic going on? Yea I saw it, honestly I don't think I can find much AI in someone else's mason chats when there are timezone differences, one of them traveling constantly and the other seeming pretty disinterested in the chat and with the concept of masons in general IIRC from Palmar's filter. I did find the point that if they were both scum that they might try harder to make it seem productive/active to be an interesting one, it was a good thought. No guarantee that they would have had that same thought, though. I think focusing on stuff that actually happened in the game (posts, reads, and votes) makes more sense to me overall. So you now think that Palmar and I can't be scum together? Is that what you're saying here? Not sure how you got that from what I said. I think it's possible, because I don't think that the mason chat was AI. Ah so Palmar is still scum, is he your second highest read now after me? Or where has he shuffled out on the list. Yea I'd probably say you are more lynchable than him now for me. Still have to look at Rels, also hoping Palmar and iamp address the fact that they too were on that horrible wagon, iamp being the last vote to stick on VE twice even, though as I said before the fact that the second VE vote was TvT with CopCake makes it overall less egregious IMO. And again, if someone else could do the work of looking into their read progressions on Oats instead of just getting the posters-in-question' self-testimonies, that would be a big help IMO.
if your asking me why i voted ve its because i thought oats was town and ve was scum. I was genuinely impressed with his play after the check. I was confused by all that happened with slam "claiming" for no reason and it apparently being true and mafia just not dealing with it in that case and combine that with Oats going tryhard.
Plus i always liked oats we used to play dota years ago so i was blinded by that too.
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Rels just voted palmar and decided to afk.
DMB chimed in with a lol and nothing else.
This is a critical cycle we need input.
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On March 17 2024 06:08 justanothertownie wrote:
I also commented on MZs day1 progression in my large post about him. It is objectively scummy. But also extremely brazen if he is mafia.
I don't know if brazen is the term I'd use, because they put in enough effort to preempt criticism. When I think brazen I think of a person with no fucks to give. MZ clearly gave a lot of fucks.
The scum approach just makes too much sense to me. To boil it down, it's basically:
1. Push hard for an Oats lynch after the flip, so they look neutral-to-good when Oats is lynched.
2. Berate anyone on other wagons when they don't have much steam, effect is similar to #1.
3. When the wagon starts gaining steam, make many posts explaining how you're having a change of heart and why, making it seem like a natural development.
4. "Aw shucks, y'all convinced me. My fault."
And given that it was D2 and the game is still pretty much wide open, there will still be a lot of people looking elsewhere, other townies making questionable plays, and in this game, an easy ML on VE. I think it could have been a calculated gamble.
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EPT
