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Please use the gameplay patch discussion thread for discussing item builds, champion kits, and other things related to gameplay. Please use this thread for discussion other things related to the game, such as the number of bans in ranked soloq, ranked teams, and competitive; speculation on game design and champion builds; toxicity in soloq; competitive integrity and sandbox mode; or how 739 is a robot designed to do nothing but Liquibet. We have a few other setups we might consider experimenting with and nothing is set in stone. Feel free to discuss in Website Feedback. |
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Welcome to this patch's General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread. While posting standards tend to be rather lax in this thread, pointless spam will not be tolerated.
Gameplay discussion should go in the Patch Discussion thread.
Non-League of Legends dicsussion should go in the LiquidLegends Lounge.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:- "Elo hell"
- The Tribunal
- Bans, either from TL.net or LoL
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum.
Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game or champion specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
There is no new champion this patch.
Patch 5.16: Live on Aug. 19th, 2015
+ Show Spoiler [Previous GD Threads & Patch Notes] +
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that color attack from last thread nearly destroys my eyes -_-;
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2anime5me
Why not triforce instead, though?
Low movespeed, not really actually that much damage, Devourer Vayne wants the ASpd.
On Morde, I don't see it happening. Skarner is the only one I think is likely to see play. Possibly Darius.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On August 20 2015 05:04 St3MoR wrote:
that color attack from last thread nearly destroys my eyes -_-;
Also that music.
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That was much better than Darknesssssss
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Hey, Moonbear. You're pretty cool.
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Moonbear, you needed to make the closing post a link. 7/10.
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pretty lolzy that they had to code an entire form of CC just for lulu. I cant really see them ever using polymorph again
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Someone go find the Korean Detective Lulu video for Moonbear (if they don't have it already).
Initial Thoughts/Reactions to 5.16 (that I'd been working on since 5.15 thread shared the link to everyone):
- The fact that they announced that Worlds is going to be 5.18 is good, means that we're probably going to have 5.17 be a patch to introduce a new champion, with 5.18 being the patch to buff/nerf said champion and have the champion be active for Worlds play.
- Darius' new passive seems pretty strong, that bonus flat AD scaling means either he'll be insanely hard to deal with late game as he gets tanky and dives the backline, or he'll go full glass cannon like a Riven, build nothing but AD and Armor Pen. and just look to pentakill the enemy team before they have time to react. There is no middle ground.
- Garen's early game was nerfed, his late game is about the same, and he didn't get a bunch of free damage like Darius did. So, probably a nerf overall.
- Skarner change with the crystals still makes me go 'wtf?' Everything else seems like a slight buff overall, and with him getting a stun option on his E it might mean he's actually ok at chasing down enemy champions when his ult is down.
- Morde change is going to be super weird, might be Riot trying to force changes to meta and encourage new team comps, similar to Dota 2 and how they have 2-1-2 or 1-1-3 or 2-2-1 lanes (as there's basically no such thing as a jungler in Dota 2). The biggest change is how his R now lets him take command of the Dragon's soul, meaning pushes and baron sieges are going to be super weird.
- Lots of small buffs to tanky supports/tanks in general on their armor scaling or HP growth, to help counter-act the changes to the tanky items.
- Ahri nerf is weird, I thought she was in an ok spot.
- Alistar nerf is meh, makes flashing out of Headbutt easier.
- Azir bug fixes, nothing to see here.
- Elise nerfed after being brought back into the meta, not 100% sure if this'll drop her out of the meta again, the stun duration on the web is still pretty solid.
- Kassadin buff with enough time for mid laners to re-learn him in time for Worlds? Check.
- Random Kayle nerf because why not.
- Lee Sin buffs with enough time for junglers to re-learn him in time for Worlds? Check.
- Leblanc buffs with enough time for mid laners to re-learn her in time for Worlds? Check.
- Lissandra buff with enough time for top laners to re-learn her in time for Worlds? Check.
- Lucian buffs with enough time for ADCs to pick him back up in time for Worlds? Check.
- Nasus change is whatever, not a big deal.
- Nami buff is nice. Potentially in time for her to re-emerge in the meta in time for Worlds.
- Rammus buff is whatever, not a big deal.
- Rumble nerf when he's already started to fall out of the meta? Ok, whatever. It's actually a pretty big nerf, having to wait an additonal 25 seconds at level 16 to get the ult back again.
- Tahm Kench is a thing? Thought this was a joke champion. Buffs might help I guess.
- Teemo trap change is a side-grade at best, nerf at worst.
- Twitch buffs as he's starting to come back into the meta? Sounds like a Worlds buff to me.
- Encouraging people to actually upgrade Hex Core all the way, seems fine to me for Viktor.
- Nice buff to Vel'Koz overall, probably not enough to have him come into the meta... Though I could be wrong.
- Volibear buff is ok I guess?
- Zac buff on his E, at a time when people are looking for strong engage tools in the competitive scene. Smells like Worlds to me.
- Zed buff, in time for Worlds, yadda yadda.
Ok, itemization first impressions:
- Dead Man's Plate seems strong on champions that would benefit from faster MS and build armor and HP anyway (Vi, Zac, Singed, Garen, Darius, Skarner, Sejuani). Might see it picked up by engage supports too (Leona, Thresh, Braum).
- Sterak's Gage looks like it'd be ok on engage AD champions (Vi, Garen, Darius).
- Titanic Hydra might become the go-to item for AD junglers to build after getting the enchantment on their jungle item.
- Warmog's change is ok... I think?
- Various buffs/cost changes to MR items, seems ok to me.
- Aegis/Locket changes are probably good overall, but Aegis being super cheap means we'll probably see an uptick in Banners on the map.
- Nerf to Frozen heart sucks, but was probably needed.
- Changes to Thornmail are better overall for armor-stacking tanks, but a nerf if you just built the Thornmail as your main armor item.
- Changes to Randuin's is probably needed, I think it's a sidegrade overall, as the additional reduced damage taken by a critical strike is nice.
- RIP Cinderhulk, you were so OP.
- RIP Righteous Glory, you were finally in a decent spot before now.
I think that's everything.
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On August 20 2015 05:05 Caiada wrote:Low movespeed, not really actually that much damage, Devourer Vayne wants the ASpd.
...No?
Zephyr: 25 AD, 50% AS, 10% MS + other stuff (10% CDR, Tenacity)
P.Dancer: 50% AS, 5% MS, 35% Crit + other stuff (ignore unit collision)
Triforce: 30 AD, 30% AS, 8% MS + 20ms on-hit, 10% Crit + other stuff (spellblade, 250hp, 200 mana, 30 AP)
If we're talking ultra-lategame replacements for boots, Tforce gives the most MS, and 30Ad+spellblade is at least comparable to 20% AD and 25% crit for damage. It's also basically just better than Zephyr.
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Tforce is 10 ms for ranged and gives more burst to your tumbles but the tri proc is w.e with the sated.The extra hp is probably better than zephyr since you shit on everything anyway.
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Hey guys, we're trying out the GD/Strategy split for this patch cycle. Not every topic ends up being a new article, so ideally this helps get some discussion separation without being complete fragmentation.
Please use the Strategy forum thread to discussion gameplay things like spending 10 pages on theorycrafting Vi builds.
Please use this thread for discussion other things related to the game, like whether competitive should have 10 bans, why Chromas are a scam, and speculating on game design and how the patch cycle ruins competitive integrity.
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1800 range on Zac's slingshot? Are they mad? Holy moly.
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^ i also find it insane even tho i love playing zac range is not his problem but the fact he does 0 dmg
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Build Liandry's 3rd item on Zac, spam laugh as you burn their whole team.
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zac deals fine damage his problem is he can't stick to people because shit like thresh/janna and mobility makes his shit realllly hard to land
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wtf the split version lost the poll super hard why are we still splitting????
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On August 20 2015 05:14 Zess wrote:
Hey guys, we're trying out the GD/Strategy split for this patch cycle. Not every topic ends up being a new article, so ideally this helps get some discussion separation without being complete fragmentation.
Please use the Strategy forum thread to discussion gameplay things like spending 10 pages on theorycrafting Vi builds.
Please use this thread for discussion other things related to the game, like whether competitive should have 10 bans, why Chromas are a scam, and speculating on game design and how the patch cycle ruins competitive integrity.
Please unlock the PBE thread until the next cycle actually starts later tonight.
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yea zac does a lot of damage actually if you build him for it. He's like the AP wukong... problem like the other guy said is you can easily get dodged or kited and if that happens you have zero way of doing anything. But like amumu you can instawin a teamfight if they are caught off guard
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Wtf. Of course Randuin's a nerf, it's nerfed against everyone but Ashe, since people won't always crit and it's way worse against damage sources that aren't crit.
And Righteous Glory became cheaper in exchange for the catalyst passive. You don't upgrade to Righteous till you're ready to make plays, so you rarely finish it first item, especially in soloQ. The "nerf" won't matter a lot of the time due to that.
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100g is absolutely worth losing catalyst passive. I didn't think it was a particularly solid first item upgrade anyway, now it's probably better to grab second after, say, DMP.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 20 2015 05:06 Ansibled wrote:
That was much better than Darknesssssss
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Do you guys not have skype or is 2x GD threads some kind of elaborate prank?
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On August 20 2015 05:39 cLutZ wrote:
Do you guys not have skype or is 2x GD threads some kind of elaborate prank?
Actually, I think discussion of this issue should probably go in website feedback.
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On August 20 2015 05:40 TheHumanSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 05:39 cLutZ wrote:
Do you guys not have skype or is 2x GD threads some kind of elaborate prank? Actually, I think discussion of this issue should probably go in website feedback.
It already was:
On August 06 2015 04:54 Zess wrote:Poll: Thoughts?I wouldn't like that (31) 74% I would like that (8) 19% I would like that but don't think it will work (2) 5% I wouldn't like that but think it will work (1) 2% My opinion is way too nuanced to put in one of the general buckets (0) 0% 42 total votes Your vote: Thoughts? (Vote): I would like that
(Vote): I wouldn't like that
(Vote): I would like that but don't think it will work
(Vote): I wouldn't like that but think it will work
(Vote): My opinion is way too nuanced to put in one of the general buckets
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It's something we've been considering for a long time, and are doing it now to try it out. Please take further complaints to the existing place in website feedback.
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On August 20 2015 05:39 cLutZ wrote:
Do you guys not have skype or is 2x GD threads some kind of elaborate prank?
Age killing old man Neo's reaction time.
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Those new items look very promising for top laner brusiers lol
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Sterak's is going to be in a lot of games once people get used to the shield. I could see Jax coming back.
I'm curious about how top laners will react to this by the time worlds rolls around. Honestly, at least in the west, they've been one of the most obstinate roles. Cleaver Gnar didn't take off for quite a while after its introduction, and most other 'new' things were just China's things from last week.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 20 2015 06:14 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 05:39 cLutZ wrote:
Do you guys not have skype or is 2x GD threads some kind of elaborate prank? Age killing old man Neo's reaction time.
I was actually out when the patch dropped. Can't blame me for this one.
Jokes aside, the GD fracturing is something I personally think is needed however the current implementation might not be the best way. Staff is discussing how to make it better over the course of future patches.
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These UI changes are the best! Particularly:
*Remaining cooldown is now prioritized over all other ability states (ex. CC’d, out of mana) so you can plan your next move while Zhonya’s-ing
*The scoreboard now displays a large "?" next to enemy champions you don't have vision of (in addition to the previous dimmed out portraits)
Perfect! Those were my two biggest complaints. So are we all finally used to the new UI and like it more now?
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Baa?21244 Posts
On August 20 2015 06:31 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 06:14 Alaric wrote:On August 20 2015 05:39 cLutZ wrote:
Do you guys not have skype or is 2x GD threads some kind of elaborate prank? Age killing old man Neo's reaction time. I was actually out when the patch dropped. Can't blame me for this one. Jokes aside, the GD fracturing is something I personally think is needed however the current implementation might not be the best way. Staff is discussing how to make it better over the course of future patches.
To add to this, as Xes said, we're just trying stuff out. We have a few other setups we might consider experimenting with and nothing is set in stone. So for now please try to keep things related to playing the game (new builds, patch changes, mathcraft) to the GD thread in GD, and other topics (meta, esports, etc.) here. Also recall we have a PBE thread.
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Moving all the shit to the top right again seemed to stifle most of the complaints.
I wish they had an option to move some of it back :l
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On August 20 2015 06:37 Sonnington wrote:These UI changes are the best! Particularly: Show nested quote +*Remaining cooldown is now prioritized over all other ability states (ex. CC’d, out of mana) so you can plan your next move while Zhonya’s-ing
*The scoreboard now displays a large "?" next to enemy champions you don't have vision of (in addition to the previous dimmed out portraits) Perfect! Those were my two biggest complaints. So are we all finally used to the new UI and like it more now?
No, I still prefer the old one. I just want summoner names on tab and hero icons on the left.
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wait so banner still has the proper MR/hpreg aura? and is 250 cheaper just because?
banner every game here we come lel
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On August 20 2015 06:39 Dandel Ion wrote:
wait so banner still has the proper MR/hpreg aura? and is 250 cheaper just because?
banner every game here we come lel
It does not, as far as I'm aware. They all have the same passive.
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i mean they may well just suck at writing, but they specifically wrote the aura nerfs again at locket, but not at banner, so it doesnt look like its aura is nerfed too to me. but maybe i just dont speak competitive integrity well enough
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On August 20 2015 06:39 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 06:37 Sonnington wrote:These UI changes are the best! Particularly: *Remaining cooldown is now prioritized over all other ability states (ex. CC’d, out of mana) so you can plan your next move while Zhonya’s-ing
*The scoreboard now displays a large "?" next to enemy champions you don't have vision of (in addition to the previous dimmed out portraits) Perfect! Those were my two biggest complaints. So are we all finally used to the new UI and like it more now? No, I still prefer the old one. I just want summoner names on tab and hero icons on the left.
Oh, that's one thing I'd want too: the summoner names back on the scoreboard. Then I can tell who the bitchly is who starts the surrender vote.
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Quick aside, but has anyone else noticed the amount of toxicity has actually greatly decreased since the instant feedback thing was implemented?
I mean, I haven't played ranked for almost two months, and last night I was in two specific games where I was feeding hard and no one started the obligatory blame-game before we'd even started losing the game.
Games have a LOT less chat in general, I've noticed, but I much prefer the quiet game with pings to the bullshit pissing contests that I had gotten used to in ranked mode.
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Was the instant feedback implemented only in America or also on EUW? I haven't noticed any change over here.
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On August 20 2015 07:04 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 06:57 Nemireck wrote:
Quick aside, but has anyone else noticed the amount of toxicity has actually greatly decreased since the instant feedback thing was implemented?
I mean, I haven't played ranked for almost two months, and last night I was in two specific games where I was feeding hard and no one started the obligatory blame-game before we'd even started losing the game.
Games have a LOT less chat in general, I've noticed, but I much prefer the quiet game with pings to the bullshit pissing contests that I had gotten used to in ranked mode. no for me I've felt that it increased. by any chance did you rank up to gold or something? because that elo is the most friendly. gold > silver > bronze > high diamond > mid diamond > low diamond > plat
Nah, I bounce around between Gold promos and Silver 2. Which I guess is not really that far off the mark.
I dunno, it was only one night, but god damn was I feeding in those early games. And the worst I got was one "seriously?"
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On August 20 2015 07:04 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 06:57 Nemireck wrote:
Quick aside, but has anyone else noticed the amount of toxicity has actually greatly decreased since the instant feedback thing was implemented?
I mean, I haven't played ranked for almost two months, and last night I was in two specific games where I was feeding hard and no one started the obligatory blame-game before we'd even started losing the game.
Games have a LOT less chat in general, I've noticed, but I much prefer the quiet game with pings to the bullshit pissing contests that I had gotten used to in ranked mode. no for me I've felt that it increased. by any chance did you rank up to gold or something? because that elo is the most friendly. gold > silver > bronze > high diamond > mid diamond > low diamond > plat
Dunno if I agree with this.When you get to the point in diamond where you start getting matched with the same people often then the real cancer begins with the "oh you lost me that game once upon a time I am gonna troll now".Havent played on na but on euw this is a very annoying thing.Haven't noticed any change in how much people flame either.
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I don't think my games decreased in toxicity at all. Moreover I'm still not banned.
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yea if im not banned the system is not doing its job
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United States37500 Posts
I don't get why some of you try (?) to get banned.
Whole "seeing the world burn" mentality?
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I haven't noticed a change either. Is it just me or does it feel like you're back in elementary school whenever someone says, "I'm reporting you." or "Everyone report x."?
It sounds the same to me as, "I'm telling the teacher on you!"
Could you imagine adults handling things this way? "I'm calling the cops on you because you said something I didn't like!" I'd rather see people duke it out than hear passive aggressive pussy bullshit like threatening to report.
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I'm just easily irritable and don't care enough about that to go to therapy just to stop being mad at League.
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United States37500 Posts
Ok, anger issues I can get. Can't relate but it's understandable.
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Having to play in high masters/low challenger queues makes me want to gauge my eyes off and wonder why we can't have in house leagues for this game.
Seriously, can anyone tell me?
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On August 20 2015 09:36 JJMC wrote:
Having to play in high masters/low challenger queues makes me want to gauge my eyes off and wonder why we can't have in house leagues for this game.
Seriously, can anyone tell me?
Not enough incentive for diamond/lower challenger players to play in them, and not enough incentive for the higher level folk to play in them either.
Basically it comes down to what the purpose of having an inhouse league is. If you say it's to improve with folks around your skill level, you run into a few difficulties. Something like that anyways. There's just very little incentive for organizing something like that for any skill level really.
It's impossible to weed out the "toxic" players because everyone has a different definition of the word. It's also ridiculously difficult to find a group of 10 players who have the same goal from playing an inhouse game. Even the inhouses TL ran were kinda off sometimes. Sometimes you will have amazingly fun games, and other times you end up hating the process and the result(because there is no way to "balance" the game to account for skill levels and off days). So basically, it's just a more strict solo queue(strict in terms of behavior), and if that's the case, why even bother with it when it can take twice as long to organize a game for?
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Because I'd rather have games with players not TPing to the middle of the enemy base, running around with no items, etc. I don't care if people spam swasticas in a peculiar order to draw hitlers on all chat, I just want them to play dammit, and not to troll/lose on purpose.
No incentive........ I mean, I'd be in those Leagues 24/7 as long as I'd find similar or higher skill level than me so that I can improve, and people play properly
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This looks like the best patch ever.
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United States11393 Posts
On August 20 2015 10:05 obesechicken13 wrote:
This looks like the best patch ever.
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Annie is still in the game
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why the fuck would they buff lee sin ...
oh, and now we have scaling base damage?
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the new fiora with juggernaut items is uh... interesting
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So do you build Zeke's on someone like Malzahar? Still kinda feel like Zekes is OP and I should but old habits die hard.
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On August 20 2015 12:29 Nos- wrote:
the new fiora with juggernaut items is uh... interesting
I dunno why you'd ever go any of the juggernaut items on her. Possibly Sterak's if you go for Tforce, but I don't value Tforce on her that much so that base AD goes towards nothing. Titanic is worse than Ravenous in 100% of scenarios because Q procs her lifesteal and she scales massively off AD. DMP maybe as a late pickup? But you don't really need the slow or movespeed for engaging. Anything those items add for her could easily be replaced by just playing better.
Obligatory ad for gameplay discussion thread: http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-strategy/492928-patch-516-im-the-juggernaut-patch-discussion
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On August 20 2015 09:48 JJMC wrote:
Because I'd rather have games with players not TPing to the middle of the enemy base, running around with no items, etc. I don't care if people spam swasticas in a peculiar order to draw hitlers on all chat, I just want them to play dammit, and not to troll/lose on purpose.
No incentive........ I mean, I'd be in those Leagues 24/7 as long as I'd find similar or higher skill level than me so that I can improve, and people play properly
The problem is the fact that people play for their own reasons. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some people play to have fun, and coincidentally, they are also in the same bracket as you. Others want to win every game no matter what. As long as there is no way to separate the groups of people, you will always have games you cannot control. It's inevitable. Let people play for their own reasons, and you play for yours.
The best way/ the best middle ground is actually starting up a 5s team. The initial creation will probably be difficult, but start looking for people with the same goals as you. Then you start that team up, and meet every day at whatever time to get some games in. Weed out people who don't have the same goals as you or you dislike playing with. It doesn't matter if the enemy team is trolling around because all that matters is you improving. As you climb higher, you'll probably run into more teams who are taking it as seriously as your team does. In any case, it's the best mixture of the idea of inhouse leagues and using Riot's matchmaking to your advantage.
There is a real downside to this. You'll probably end up having to adjust to solo queue even more due to the lack of real communication on your team when you play solo.
Also I hear they are releasing ranked team builder mode soon. That's worth a shot as well as you go in knowing what type of game you can expect.
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On August 20 2015 08:49 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ok, anger issues I can get. Can't relate but it's understandable.
I have noticed that I am much more toxic this season. I guess its just stress related (for me imo), but damn after each game I am actually surprised how toxic I have become.
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On August 20 2015 13:22 ketchup wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 09:48 JJMC wrote:
Because I'd rather have games with players not TPing to the middle of the enemy base, running around with no items, etc. I don't care if people spam swasticas in a peculiar order to draw hitlers on all chat, I just want them to play dammit, and not to troll/lose on purpose.
No incentive........ I mean, I'd be in those Leagues 24/7 as long as I'd find similar or higher skill level than me so that I can improve, and people play properly The problem is the fact that people play for their own reasons. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Some people play to have fun, and coincidentally, they are also in the same bracket as you. Others want to win every game no matter what. As long as there is no way to separate the groups of people, you will always have games you cannot control. It's inevitable. Let people play for their own reasons, and you play for yours. The best way/ the best middle ground is actually starting up a 5s team. The initial creation will probably be difficult, but start looking for people with the same goals as you. Then you start that team up, and meet every day at whatever time to get some games in. Weed out people who don't have the same goals as you or you dislike playing with. It doesn't matter if the enemy team is trolling around because all that matters is you improving. As you climb higher, you'll probably run into more teams who are taking it as seriously as your team does. In any case, it's the best mixture of the idea of inhouse leagues and using Riot's matchmaking to your advantage. There is a real downside to this. You'll probably end up having to adjust to solo queue even more due to the lack of real communication on your team when you play solo. Also I hear they are releasing ranked team builder mode soon. That's worth a shot as well as you go in knowing what type of game you can expect.
People are still gonna troll and the whole "wow you got your main role and you suck that much" or the rageque as something you lost to.People are assholes and a very big part of the playerbase is very young and stupid.
Then you make a ranked 5s team and understand that most people have different schedules and it is really hard to play consistently.Soloq is always there.
I actually got my first warning yesterday and been playing since s1.Funniest thing is I didn't actually flame people at all in the last 10 or so games but I got reported anyway lol.
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On August 20 2015 15:59 SHr3DD3r wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 08:49 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ok, anger issues I can get. Can't relate but it's understandable. I have noticed that I am much more toxic this season. I guess its just stress related (for me imo), but damn after each game I am actually surprised how toxic I have become.
I find just not typing or muting everyone is pretty helpful.
@Nafta - I got a warning for verbal abuse even though I didn't say a word lol. Don't think it really takes much into account.
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On August 20 2015 08:49 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ok, anger issues I can get. Can't relate but it's understandable.
im not toxic until I enter diamond MMR, so I think its more something to be said for the people that dwell there. there is this horrible combination of 1/3rd massive egos, 1/3rd people that dont really play to win, and 1/3 one trick pony tryhards that makes every single game infuriating and most of them end in 20 minutes. Really nothing fun about playing in it. The few times im lucky to sneak into a masters game or something the game is drastically different.
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United States37500 Posts
On August 20 2015 22:39 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 08:49 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ok, anger issues I can get. Can't relate but it's understandable. im not toxic until I enter diamond MMR, so I think its more something to be said for the people that dwell there. there is this horrible combination of 1/3rd massive egos, 1/3rd people that dont really play to win, and 1/3 one trick pony tryhards that makes every single game infuriating and most of them end in 20 minutes. Really nothing fun about playing in it. The few times im lucky to sneak into a masters game or something the game is drastically different.
You seem very outspoken against one trick ponies like they're as bad as the other two categories you mentioned, any reason why? I mean watching players like Irelia Carries U, Annie Bot, Rohammers, etc, when they stream, I actually learn a good deal because of how proficient they are at their main. From a learning perspective, one trick ponies are actually rather helpful because they showcase their champion against various lane matchups and team comps. As a Fizz main, I def picked up a thing or two from Fate.
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fizz mains will burn in hell ~~
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On August 20 2015 23:37 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 22:39 VayneAuthority wrote:On August 20 2015 08:49 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ok, anger issues I can get. Can't relate but it's understandable. im not toxic until I enter diamond MMR, so I think its more something to be said for the people that dwell there. there is this horrible combination of 1/3rd massive egos, 1/3rd people that dont really play to win, and 1/3 one trick pony tryhards that makes every single game infuriating and most of them end in 20 minutes. Really nothing fun about playing in it. The few times im lucky to sneak into a masters game or something the game is drastically different. You seem very outspoken against one trick ponies like they're as bad as the other two categories you mentioned, any reason why? I mean watching players like Irelia Carries U, Annie Bot, Rohammers, etc, when they stream, I actually learn a good deal because of how proficient they are at their main. From a learning perspective, one trick ponies are actually rather helpful because they showcase their champion against various lane matchups and team comps. As a Fizz main, I def picked up a thing or two from Fate.
Because if they go up vs someone who doesn't main the role they auto win the game in 20 or if they get banned they lose the game in 20.
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On August 20 2015 23:37 NeoIllusions wrote:You seem very outspoken against one trick ponies like they're as bad as the other two categories you mentioned, any reason why? I mean watching players like Irelia Carries U, Annie Bot, Rohammers, etc, when they stream, I actually learn a good deal because of how proficient they are at their main. From a learning perspective, one trick ponies are actually rather helpful because they showcase their champion against various lane matchups and team comps. As a Fizz main, I def picked up a thing or two from Fate.
They mostly rely on the enemy not maining the role or falling for the cheese. LVL6 Rengar buying 3 Doran's and ulting bot, even though he's getting smashed top, Rumble who's completely horrible at laning, relies on Dragon, so if you kill him at around 6 and insta drake he's useless for the rest of the game because he has no idea what to do, Heimerdingers trying to do a 20 minute Baron or trying desperatly to get ganked when all the other guy needs to do is waveclear, it's shit like this that pisses me off versus and with one trick ponies.
They can only do one thing, and that one thing isn't even a free win, but if that fails, it's a free loss.
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On August 20 2015 23:48 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 23:37 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 20 2015 22:39 VayneAuthority wrote:On August 20 2015 08:49 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ok, anger issues I can get. Can't relate but it's understandable. im not toxic until I enter diamond MMR, so I think its more something to be said for the people that dwell there. there is this horrible combination of 1/3rd massive egos, 1/3rd people that dont really play to win, and 1/3 one trick pony tryhards that makes every single game infuriating and most of them end in 20 minutes. Really nothing fun about playing in it. The few times im lucky to sneak into a masters game or something the game is drastically different. You seem very outspoken against one trick ponies like they're as bad as the other two categories you mentioned, any reason why? I mean watching players like Irelia Carries U, Annie Bot, Rohammers, etc, when they stream, I actually learn a good deal because of how proficient they are at their main. From a learning perspective, one trick ponies are actually rather helpful because they showcase their champion against various lane matchups and team comps. As a Fizz main, I def picked up a thing or two from Fate. Because if they go up vs someone who doesn't main the role they auto win the game in 20 or if they get banned they lose the game in 20.
I'm sure most one trick ponies at least have a decent back up or two right
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
So what do we ban in solo queue in 5.16?
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On August 21 2015 00:21 739 wrote:
So what do we ban in solo queue in 5.16?
apparently skarner
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Same as 5.15: there's not enough bans for everything.
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On August 20 2015 23:37 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 22:39 VayneAuthority wrote:On August 20 2015 08:49 NeoIllusions wrote:
Ok, anger issues I can get. Can't relate but it's understandable. im not toxic until I enter diamond MMR, so I think its more something to be said for the people that dwell there. there is this horrible combination of 1/3rd massive egos, 1/3rd people that dont really play to win, and 1/3 one trick pony tryhards that makes every single game infuriating and most of them end in 20 minutes. Really nothing fun about playing in it. The few times im lucky to sneak into a masters game or something the game is drastically different. You seem very outspoken against one trick ponies like they're as bad as the other two categories you mentioned, any reason why? I mean watching players like Irelia Carries U, Annie Bot, Rohammers, etc, when they stream, I actually learn a good deal because of how proficient they are at their main. From a learning perspective, one trick ponies are actually rather helpful because they showcase their champion against various lane matchups and team comps. As a Fizz main, I def picked up a thing or two from Fate.
Basically what nafta said. If a one trick pony lanes against one of the "for fun" ranked players that just plays all roles you instantly lose. If the one trick pony gets banned out you instantly lose. They arent really fun to play against or with. They heavily contribute to 20 minute syndrome
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I dunno why I cant carry hard as viktor or theres a specific teamcomp for him to pwn?
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Take mid with superior waveclear and roam with your jungler.
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So Skarner is reaching 60-63% winrate? Disabled soon?
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On August 21 2015 00:11 JJMC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 23:37 NeoIllusions wrote:You seem very outspoken against one trick ponies like they're as bad as the other two categories you mentioned, any reason why? I mean watching players like Irelia Carries U, Annie Bot, Rohammers, etc, when they stream, I actually learn a good deal because of how proficient they are at their main. From a learning perspective, one trick ponies are actually rather helpful because they showcase their champion against various lane matchups and team comps. As a Fizz main, I def picked up a thing or two from Fate. They mostly rely on the enemy not maining the role or falling for the cheese. LVL6 Rengar buying 3 Doran's and ulting bot, even though he's getting smashed top, Rumble who's completely horrible at laning, relies on Dragon, so if you kill him at around 6 and insta drake he's useless for the rest of the game because he has no idea what to do, Heimerdingers trying to do a 20 minute Baron or trying desperatly to get ganked when all the other guy needs to do is waveclear, it's shit like this that pisses me off versus and with one trick ponies. They can only do one thing, and that one thing isn't even a free win, but if that fails, it's a free loss.
The level 3 dragon cheeses. The old level 2 invades in S3 before trinkets were a thing...
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No he is not at 60%+ winrate. op.gg stats have him at 52-57 depending on Elo/region, and champion.gg isn't updated for 3 more days. For context, that puts him at like 6th place at best. Overtuned? Probably. Disable-worthy? Fuck no.
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of course the only champ I wanted to play from the patch is permbanned  maybe ill play my first normal game in years, i'd like to play it.
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![[image loading]](http://snag.gy/ribwW.jpg)
62.77% winrate. Second best is Ahri with 56.64% winrate.
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Not sure if i should post this here or move it to the other thread; Questions were posted here and not in the strategy forum so i am answering here for now. If this should be moved feel free to move it.
On August 21 2015 01:54 justiceknight wrote:
I dunno why I cant carry hard as viktor or theres a specific teamcomp for him to pwn?
1) Because they nerfed the shit out of him. Minus 25 to 30 AP at 15 or so vs 5.15 Viktor. Potentially more earlier. You now must upgrade to the third tier of augments in order to get a decent final marginal value from the items which delays your ability to get other strong items. So realistically you're hitting your core items 1000 gold later and until you get there you're 400-600 gold in deficit from where you were. He is now super dependent on levels since his augment has zero base stats. Not sure what this means regarding what to buy if you get ahead[if you're buying augments at low level you get basically nothing for them besides the ability upgrade].
2) he is very dependent on ally/enemy team comp and smart team fighting in order to be effective.
Good ally team comps involve overlapping zone control (Ekko jungle, Graves AD). Good front line tanks (Viktor doesn't have good ways to get to the back line unless their back line is in laser range through the enemy front line, so Viktor tends to want to kill their front line first which means he needs a stronger front line), Kite(fade away lasers have better chance of hitting enemy back liners if enemy is coming towards you), and Braum because Braum's E negates one of Viktor's primary weaknesses.
On the other side Viktor is very susceptible to being zoned by poke and/or (sometimes) kite comps. Especially non blockable poke. So he is weak against long range zone control mids like Ori and long range damage threats like mid Kog and Xerath, especially if they have hard wave clear and this is true regardless of whether or not he beats them in lane. Bad enemy team comps involve Braum and anything that can tank harder than your front line can. Kite comps can beat him because if he is running at them he will not be able to laser well into the back line due to travel time. Also watch out for enemy ADC's much stronger lategame than yours for the same reason as you wanting to have a stronger tank.
Against Poke comps he needs to get a good engage and have someone kill or block/prevent the enemy poke from hitting him. Against Kite comps he needs good zone control to hold objectives and make the kite team come to him (which he can do with his wave clear and zone control). For a good example of what not to do watch game 2 of TSM vs TL's semi-final match; Fenix buys incorrectly [no cap and no void staff against 200 MR front line despite being way ahead] and the team in general is moving the wrong way in team fights. This turns an easy win for them into an embarrassing loss.
TL:DR Viktor was just nerfed really hard and Viktor needs smart team play in order to be effective.
On August 20 2015 12:32 obesechicken13 wrote:
So do you build Zeke's on someone like Malzahar? Still kinda feel like Zekes is OP and I should but old habits die hard.
Zekes is very strong on him i think. Especially as you tend to peel more as teamfights go on than combo burst an enemy..
On August 20 2015 12:42 Caiada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2015 12:29 Nos- wrote:
the new fiora with juggernaut items is uh... interesting I dunno why you'd ever go any of the juggernaut items on her. Possibly Sterak's if you go for Tforce, but I don't value Tforce on her that much so that base AD goes towards nothing. Titanic is worse than Ravenous in 100% of scenarios because Q procs her lifesteal and she scales massively off AD. DMP maybe as a late pickup? But you don't really need the slow or movespeed for engaging. Anything those items add for her could easily be replaced by just playing better. Obligatory ad for gameplay discussion thread: http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-strategy/492928-patch-516-im-the-juggernaut-patch-discussion
Fiora is a bruiser now so the new Juggernaut items(at least the bruisery ones) on here are basically perfect for her.
She needs the HP/Armor/MR in order to not just explode as she hits enemies. Previously she could get lots of AD and then Ult and abuse the invincibility frames. But she can't do that anymore so she wants bonus AD and tank items. Her guaranteed crit means she doesn't really need crit items. Her bonus true damage means she doesn't really need pen items. Just AD and living.
Hybrid damage/tank items are really efficient and two new hybrid damage/tank items just got added into the game. BT/Hydra/BotRK, Maw, Titanic, Deadman's, seems like a really strong combination on her.
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Please never buy BotRK on Fiora. Aspd is garbage on her because you have 2 AA resets.
Don't buy Titanic, it's worse than Ravenous in every way for her because you're spamming Q and an AA reset.
Don't buy Sterak's because she does not scale with base AD except if you get a (bad) Tforce. Q and passive are her main sources of damage. Both are bonus AD.
And all that's left is DMP which I said is probably decent. She's not a bruiser. She does not have the base damage to play as a bruiser. She already had plenty of great items that get her just tanky enough to function if you use ult properly. Hydra/Cleaver is core and is a lot of base health, you can probably get DMP after if absolutely necessary, usually go BT/Maw though.
The ult is honestly the only reason she is good. It's absolutely insane if you use it properly.
On August 21 2015 03:06 JJMC wrote:62.77% winrate. Second best is Ahri with 56.64% winrate.
My bad, my stats weren't refreshed for some reason.
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Skarner 63% rework first day nice patch.
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On August 21 2015 03:17 Caiada wrote:
Please never buy BotRK on Fiora
Don't buy Titanic, it's worse than Ravenous in every way for her because you're spamming Q and an AA reset.
Don't buy Sterak's because she does not scale with base AD except if you get a (bad) Tforce.
And all that's left is DMP which I said is probably decent. She's not a bruiser. She does not have the base damage to play as a bruiser.
1) She is a bruiser. She has no invulnerability (well her W but only allows small outplays in teamfights/skirmishes, not like her old ult, Yi's Q, Trynds' ult etc) with which to reliably get off damage. She absolutely must have tank stats or will have to massively outplay her opponents.
2) I didn't suggest she buy any items that DON'T have raw Bonus AD on them except DMP. Lots of AD in fact. (ok except botrk, only 25 AD there but she does want some life steal, and the on-hit effect is powerful, and her Q applies on-hit effects). Maw has 60, BC has 40, Titanic has 50. Those three, DMP, Boots, and a lifesteal item provide between 175 and 230 bonus AD while also making you survive long enough to actually hit weak points.
3) Q applies on-hit effects so Titanic actually works pretty well with it as does BotRK (which will do more single target damage than Ravenous). Titanic does more damage per attack than Ravenous Hydra at 2000 Max HP. It does more damage on a Q at 2350 Max HP. If we assume that Fiora has no other source of HP* the first occurs at level 14 and the second at level 17. Though its worth noting that they're so close at 13/16 its not really worth quibbling about it. It has an active attack reset and so doesn't lose anything to the Ravenous active. The only downside is no lifesteal but that is why i suggested building a lifesteal item
*which we shouldn't because we want her to build DMP and BC as reasonably efficient tank/dps items and she might have other sources like runes/masteries.
edit: Forgot to mention, the auto attack reset on Titanic is much better than the one on Ravenous for single target. Since the attack has bonus damage of 40+10% max health to all targets this will be AA+240 to 380 damage or so depending on items. Ravenous will deal AA damage only and the AA will only do 25 damage more than Titanics. So you're some 215 to 355 damage behind!
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I'd rather have 12% AoE lifesteal than more damage and 400 health, but I can see the argument with the health scaling. "Standard" build gets 2 lifesteal items for good reason though. It doesn't somehow have diminishing returns, which has always been this weird myth around lifesteal because no ADC used to get BT/BotRK before Kali because of their limited build slots and crit. Fiora appears to rely a lot on sustained fights and damage avoidance, both of which are why Kali goes BotRK/BT.
BotRK compared to BT is 55 less AD, 8% less lifesteal, less health because of the BT shield. In exchange, you get the active and the passive and 300 gold. She has no problem chasing in most cases, especially if you're also going DMP and get Alacrity, so the active is mostly some extra damage. Both the active and passive damage have to be worth 55 AD and ~300 +/- whatever 8% lifesteal gives you. Maybe the math is there, I haven't done it. But I don't see it.
Other than those two, well, we're basically suggesting the same build. Tiamat item->Cleaver->Lifesteal->Maw/DMP in whichever order. The issue is just the silly bruiser classification, which, eh, I could go either way on. It's too generic to define anything helpful at this point, with melee carries very likely becoming an actual thing.
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On August 21 2015 03:31 Ansibled wrote:
Skarner 63% rework first day nice patch.
My observation of him in a game he was losing really badly was that somehow he was stupidly tanky, hard to run away and did great damage (then again, he built TF out of the jungle, his team was cancer). That ultimate has always been considered super powerful, it was just the champion around it that got butchered.
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On August 21 2015 04:10 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 03:31 Ansibled wrote:
Skarner 63% rework first day nice patch. My observation of him in a game he was losing really badly was that somehow he was stupidly tanky, hard to run away and did great damage (then again, he built TF out of the jungle, his team was cancer). That ultimate has always been considered super powerful, it was just the champion around it that got butchered.
Tforce out of the jungle makes sense. Q is on like a 0 second cooldown.
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He also wants move speed and has a hilarious amount of base AD now.
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138 base AD at 18 now. It'd be criminal not to go Tforce/Sterak's.
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On August 21 2015 05:25 Caiada wrote:
138 base AD at 18 now. It'd be criminal not to go Tforce/Sterak's.
With both he has 172.5 base AD = 345 damage per triforce proc.
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On August 21 2015 05:29 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 05:25 Caiada wrote:
138 base AD at 18 now. It'd be criminal not to go Tforce/Sterak's. With both he has 172.5 base AD = 345 damage per triforce proc.
414 if Sterak's triggers.
Meanwhile Mega Gnar is sitting on 144 base AD :p
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Skarner always had very high base AD though. Bunch of tanks do. Alistar, Blitzcrank, Maokai, etc. there's a reason Triforce was built on Maokai in s1.
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On August 21 2015 05:50 Alaric wrote:
Skarner always had very high base AD though. Bunch of tanks do. Alistar, Blitzcrank, Maokai, etc. there's a reason Triforce was built on Maokai in s1.
I don't think it was ever this high. nvm. he only gained .3 per level.
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Skarner has had the highest base ad in the game since his introduction
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Morde is now the highest, hilariously enough. 146. Jesus.
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So you guys remember Atmogs and Fratmas? (Atmas + Warmogs, Atmas + FMallet)? What are we going to name combos like Steraks and Triforce? Steraksforce?
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On August 21 2015 06:17 obesechicken13 wrote:
So you guys remember Atmogs and Fratmas? (Atmas + Warmogs, Atmas + FMallet)? What are we going to name combos like Steraks and Triforce? Steraksforce?
Meta Golem 2.0
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Is Yoe going to be at worlds? Nothing could be better than Steak building steraks.
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On August 21 2015 06:39 cLutZ wrote:
Is Yoe going to be at worlds? Nothing could be better than Steak building steraks.
Their LoL team is no longer called YFW, just FW. I think SC2 team still has Yoe in name, they are qualified for Worlds though.
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On August 21 2015 06:39 cLutZ wrote:
Is Yoe going to be at worlds? Nothing could be better than Steak building steraks.
Yes. They are the #2 seed from Taiwan.
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Huekaiser hits like a goddamn lorry. Played a game against one with Deadman's Plate and he just comes zooming in with his W and murders you with that Q. You peel him or you die, and even then he just randomly kills people that come too close. Not sure if it's enough to compensate for his obvious weaknesses but holy shit that damage.
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I didn't think the Lee Sin ult change was a big deal until I kicked a 4k hp cho into the enemy adc and one shot them. Nice to see Lee have some other way of team fighting effectively
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On August 21 2015 06:44 Kaethis wrote:
Huekaiser hits like a goddamn lorry. Played a game against one with Deadman's Plate and he just comes zooming in with his W and murders you with that Q. You peel him or you die, and even then he just randomly kills people that come too close. Not sure if it's enough to compensate for his obvious weaknesses but holy shit that damage.
WTF is a lorry?
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It's a truck except british.
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On August 21 2015 06:52 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 06:44 Kaethis wrote:
Huekaiser hits like a goddamn lorry. Played a game against one with Deadman's Plate and he just comes zooming in with his W and murders you with that Q. You peel him or you die, and even then he just randomly kills people that come too close. Not sure if it's enough to compensate for his obvious weaknesses but holy shit that damage. WTF is a lorry?
+ Show Spoiler +
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Mordekaiser seems to be useless from what I've seen from him so far. Played vs Yorick with smite + Mordekaiser duo toplane, and even though they're ridiculously strong early game, they fall off uber fast. I can see LCS running this strategy against unprepared people to finish the game in under 20 minutes.
![[image loading]](http://snag.gy/q4Qxc.jpg)
On the other hand, Skarner is reaching 64% winrate; and I actually got to pick it in the 4th round of picks.
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Yorick with smite + Mordekaiser duo toplane
Well that's the worst thing I've ever heard
Slight exaggeration but it sounds like them just trying something super goofy
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Yeah they seemed to be goofing around. But, on the other hand, Mordekaiser straight up walked to towerdive our GP and instagibbed him. I suppose he can be usefull for blitzkrieg teamcomps.
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really enjoying the S T R A T E G I C D I V E R S I T Y offered by this new patch
you're supposed to take morde bot lane and just stay in there cause ads don't do damage
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On August 21 2015 06:42 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 06:39 cLutZ wrote:
Is Yoe going to be at worlds? Nothing could be better than Steak building steraks. Yes. They are the #2 seed from Taiwan.
The rivington is going to be epic.
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On August 21 2015 06:50 MattBarry wrote:
I didn't think the Lee Sin ult change was a big deal until I kicked a 4k hp cho into the enemy adc and one shot them. Nice to see Lee have some other way of team fighting effectively
XD
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On August 21 2015 06:20 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 06:17 obesechicken13 wrote:
So you guys remember Atmogs and Fratmas? (Atmas + Warmogs, Atmas + FMallet)? What are we going to name combos like Steraks and Triforce? Steraksforce? Meta Golem 2.0
Lol
"We don't like people building defense and getting offense or the other way around so Jax can't have his old passive anymore but Galio can keep his and we're removing atmas"
Later: "Here's Jax's new new ult. It gives defenses for building damage just like the reverse of the new titanic hydra"
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you guys think adc will ever get some kind of change? I feel so underwhelming playing the role
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Probably in the preseason some item changes.Don't think just changing numbers on champs can make a healthier adc pool.Also need more kalista nerfs.
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On August 21 2015 08:09 Nos- wrote:
you guys think adc will ever get some kind of change? I feel so underwhelming playing the role
Frankly i am not sure they should be played on this patch though i don't know who else can duo lane effectively.
On August 21 2015 08:12 nafta wrote:
Probably in the preseason some item changes.Don't think just changing numbers on champs can make a healthier adc pool.Also need more kalista nerfs.
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches.
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I dunno, I get wet knowing ADCs finally get to experience the pains they caused on other roles.
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On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:09 Nos- wrote:
you guys think adc will ever get some kind of change? I feel so underwhelming playing the role Frankly i am not sure they should be played on this patch though i don't know who else can duo lane effectively. Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:12 nafta wrote:
Probably in the preseason some item changes.Don't think just changing numbers on champs can make a healthier adc pool.Also need more kalista nerfs. I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches.
Just need to give sivir the mana cost on e back so she isn't so safe in lane vs everything.Now with bruisers being so good she is even stronger same with kalista/vayne and peel the kog comps.
Also on pbe they are nerfing kalista w and r.The real problems with her kit.
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On August 21 2015 08:17 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:On August 21 2015 08:09 Nos- wrote:
you guys think adc will ever get some kind of change? I feel so underwhelming playing the role Frankly i am not sure they should be played on this patch though i don't know who else can duo lane effectively. On August 21 2015 08:12 nafta wrote:
Probably in the preseason some item changes.Don't think just changing numbers on champs can make a healthier adc pool.Also need more kalista nerfs. I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Just need to give sivir the mana cost on e back so she isn't so safe in lane vs everything.Now with bruisers being so good she is even stronger same with kalista/vayne and peel the kog comps.
I think that Kalista/Vayne may be ok. But juggermaw won't work if the enemy team just like double juggernaut runs at you and murders you with Deadman's Plate
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On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:09 Nos- wrote:
you guys think adc will ever get some kind of change? I feel so underwhelming playing the role Frankly i am not sure they should be played on this patch though i don't know who else can duo lane effectively. Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:12 nafta wrote:
Probably in the preseason some item changes.Don't think just changing numbers on champs can make a healthier adc pool.Also need more kalista nerfs. I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches.
Sivir was nerfed in 5.15. No reason for back to back nerfs while also (possibly) reshuffling the jungle/top meta.
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Kali also has nerfs on 5.17 PBE.
Armor nerfing is still good for ADCs as a whole, and movespeed-based bruisers who stack health are the dream for guys like Vayne/Twitch and probably Lucian. Most ADCs were 'bad' because of the prevalence of tank/tank/mage who can one-shot you or is Azir/the jungler who is possibly another tank or else Elise or Nid who wreck you. If this patch shifts that, which is looking likely, people will probably reconsider ADC options.
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I really want to play League on S3 patch again.
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I dont quite get why ADCs whine so much right when the 3 big armor items got nerfed while MR became cheaper.
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On August 21 2015 09:22 Redox wrote:
I dont quite get why ADCs whine so much right when the 3 big armor items got nerfed while MR became cheaper.
Cuz it is the only carry role that is team dependant.Is it a good reason?Can't really say.
This is also the reason vayne is the most popular ad.
Also when anyone gets fed generally the first thing they do is fuck the enemy ad.So you feel like you get shit on more often than others on average.
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cuz its riots privileged role, if they arent most important role by far, cant 1v5 and do most dmg every game they are useless and require massive buffs
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On August 21 2015 09:22 Redox wrote:
I dont quite get why ADCs whine so much right when the 3 big armor items got nerfed while MR became cheaper.
Part of your sentence explains the rest. ADCs whine so much. Bout it.
I would agree that meta didn't allow them to completely take over a game without getting fed or until a bit later than previously. Beyond that, ADC still wreck towers and still wreck team fights with peel and positioning.
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Chiming in on the Skarner train as well. I don't know how anyone looked him and thought it was going to be balanced. You can't contest any areas where he has his buff. Also his clear is super fast thanks to the buffs around his blue/red circles.
I don't think I lost any game where I picked Skarner today.
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On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches.
Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands.
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On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands.
uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game.
In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas)
It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves.
As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games.
Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs
So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support.
AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier.
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On August 21 2015 12:59 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands. uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game. In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas) It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves. As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games. Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support. AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier.
And thus, that season-long pick/ban and winrates are meaningless is revealed.
Particularly when commenting on balance in the modern patch cycle.
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On August 21 2015 12:59 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands. uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game. In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas) It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves. As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games. Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support. AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier.
Azir and Viktor stop picks in other lanes from being picked far harder than any impact Sivir and Kalista does. And if we're looking at pick rate, go look up how Sivir hasn't even been picked or banned in LCK playoffs. In competant league, Viktor is absolutely crowding out picks. Teams that wanted to pick a low wave clear champion like Ezreal or Kassadin had to ban out Viktor is risk getting their shit pushed in all lane. But then again Viktor's bad so I guess that doesn't matter.
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Ahh yes the "evidence that contradicts my hypothesis is wrong" defense.
Edit: I think that Viktor has been picked and banned less as the season progressed but I am not sure. I know the current power mid pick for professional is/was TF (who I think was banned basically all of the playoffs)
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On August 21 2015 13:12 Goumindong wrote:
Ahh yes the "evidence that contradicts my hypothesis is wrong" defense.
You can't possibly expect me to take a winrate as a valid statistic when a bunch of bad mids in NA take him to the stellar score of something like 5-20+. That has a far bigger baring on his winrate than the early adoption by SKT and KOO. You're delusional.
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On August 21 2015 13:09 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 12:59 Goumindong wrote:On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands. uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game. In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas) It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves. As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games. Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support. AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier. Azir and Viktor stop picks in other lanes from being picked far harder than any impact Sivir and Kalista does. And if we're looking at pick rate, go look up how Sivir hasn't even been picked or banned in LCK playoffs. In competant league, Viktor is absolutely crowding out picks. Teams that wanted to pick a low wave clear champion like Ezreal or Kassadin had to ban out Viktor is risk getting their shit pushed in all lane. But then again Viktor's bad so I guess that doesn't matter.
Teams that wanted to pick a low wave clear mid like Kassadin or Ezreal had to ban out lulu, TF, Azir, Viktor, orianna, and varus.
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On August 21 2015 13:15 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 13:12 Goumindong wrote:
Ahh yes the "evidence that contradicts my hypothesis is wrong" defense. You can't possibly expect me to take a winrate as a valid statistic when a bunch of bad mids in NA take him to the stellar score of something like 5-20+. That has a far bigger baring on his winrate than the early adoption by SKT and KOO. You're delusional.
He didn't goddamn win in Korea or China either! Good fucking christ how many goddamn times. Edit: Summer numbers not using numbers for prior splits. LPL summer 2015 = 48% win rate. LCK SUMMER 2015 = 47%. Iirc these numbers go up slightly in playoffs where he did well I am just too lazy to add those numbers in
For you Viktor does poorly and it's the players fault (though sometimes it is. TL butchered his play vs TSM). Viktor does good and it's all the champion! No wonder your analysis is shit.
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What do you get low priority queue for? That isn't just "has once received a dodge penalty of 20 minutes" right?
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I got it once I want to say 4 or 5 months ago for leaving when I was having a lot of tech issues. Separate from the dodge penalty.
If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny.
When every single vocal analyst I can think of thinks Viktor is a fantastic, borderline oppressive pick... maybe he is a fantastic, borderline oppressive pick.
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United States11393 Posts
On August 21 2015 13:09 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 12:59 Goumindong wrote:On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands. uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game. In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas) It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves. As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games. Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support. AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier. Azir and Viktor stop picks in other lanes from being picked far harder than any impact Sivir and Kalista does. And if we're looking at pick rate, go look up how Sivir hasn't even been picked or banned in LCK playoffs. In competant league, Viktor is absolutely crowding out picks. Teams that wanted to pick a low wave clear champion like Ezreal or Kassadin had to ban out Viktor is risk getting their shit pushed in all lane. But then again Viktor's bad so I guess that doesn't matter.
China really liked counterpicking Viktor with Kass though
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
lmfao
Reading the reddit thread gave me hypertension - SO MUCH SALT
If you got chat restricted you ruined so many games for so many people that you're among the 5% worst on your server. And now you're bitching that you won't get a border.
SUCK IT
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Except that the chat restriction system is retarded and not 100% fool proof.
Just hope you don't get a stroke due to the hypertension. Be safe.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 21 2015 14:25 SHr3DD3r wrote:
Except that the chat restriction system is retarded and not 100% fool proof.
Found the chat restricted player!
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People who complain about chat restrictions either have no understanding of statistics or severe delusions (or maybe both).
The only cases where it might not work are if you get consistently paired with the same players who report you out of spite, like in 3k elo.
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I'm not toxic, I just told that asshole everything he was doing this whole game was stupid.
(/sarcasm)
I've got a short temper and go off way more than I should, and I've never once been chat restricted. One shitty day of like 10 losing games in a row, I was muted by my whole team in at least 9 of them. Still no chat restriction. Several warnings, but no restriction. If you're more egregious than my embarassing assholery, yeah, you probably deserve that chat restriction.
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On August 21 2015 13:12 Goumindong wrote:
Ahh yes the "evidence that contradicts my hypothesis is wrong" defense.
Edit: I think that Viktor has been picked and banned less as the season progressed but I am not sure. I know the current power mid pick for professional is/was TF (who I think was banned basically all of the playoffs)
You literally brought out evidence that included Leblanc as a contested pick. If that is pertinent to Viktor's powerlevel on .14 and .15, then there can be no pleasing you.
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United States11393 Posts
Man watching sneaky play morde vs kalista janna is so hilarious.
He cant do shit vs them rofl.
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On August 21 2015 14:21 GrandInquisitor wrote:lmfao Reading the reddit thread gave me hypertension - SO MUCH SALT If you got chat restricted you ruined so many games for so many people that you're among the 5% worst on your server. And now you're bitching that you won't get a border. SUCK IT
There's more salt in that reddit thread than the Dead Sea.
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On August 21 2015 14:25 SHr3DD3r wrote:
Except that the chat restriction system is retarded and not 100% fool proof.
Just hope you don't get a stroke due to the hypertension. Be safe.
The trick is to say nothing and just feed intentionally
I'm still here and getting my rewards
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On August 21 2015 15:02 Harem wrote:
Man watching sneaky play morde vs kalista janna is so hilarious.
He cant do shit vs them rofl.
That shit was brutal, but whats he supposed to do with a friggin soraka supp?
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On August 21 2015 14:27 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 14:25 SHr3DD3r wrote:
Except that the chat restriction system is retarded and not 100% fool proof. Found the chat restricted player!
RIP, guess playing while in a bad mood was a horrible idea. I wouldn't mind if they had made this announcement at beginning of season instead of applying shit retroactively. There's just something wrong about retroactive punishments.
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Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper.
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I'll take the crapper any day.
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On August 21 2015 15:34 cLutZ wrote:
Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper.
I hate those players: they believe that because they're carrying they're entitled to belittling their team, meaning everyone else feels like shit and plays worse, so that they seem to be carrying even more. I report people who boast at the cost of their team on a regular basis.
Being carried is nice, but honestly I'd rather lose than have fed Riven say 'GG, carried this loser team, EZ'. Even better is when you're winning as a team and someone still thinks it's all because of them.
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United States37500 Posts
I'm amused with the salt. Goes back to the anger management thing we briefly talked about earlier today/yesterday.
Flaming doesn't bother me (use mute?) and I don't get angry enough to rage game after game. But if you rage and Riot has already told you that they don't want that, what can you really expect? Sure, it's retroactive but I don't really pity ragers that can't get some border for their account. You can still play the game, you just don't get some nice, shiny reward Riot gives out. Big whoop?
Edit: personally, I rather get carried by a flamer than get dragged down by a polite person. I play League to win games, etc.
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On August 21 2015 15:49 DarkCore wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 15:34 cLutZ wrote:
Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper. I hate those players: they believe that because they're carrying they're entitled to belittling their team, meaning everyone else feels like shit and plays worse, so that they seem to be carrying even more. I report people who boast at the cost of their team on a regular basis. Being carried is nice, but honestly I'd rather lose than have fed Riven say 'GG, carried this loser team, EZ'. Even better is when you're winning as a team and someone still thinks it's all because of them.
Lets say you hate those players. Do you honestly hate them more than the intentional champ select trolls which Riot has continued to not deal with?
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On August 21 2015 14:27 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 14:25 SHr3DD3r wrote:
Except that the chat restriction system is retarded and not 100% fool proof. Found the chat restricted player!
Except I am not. g g no re. bb
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When do you get chat restriction and when ranked ban and when play ban? Providing that only reports that matter are verbal abuse related I cannot understand when is what
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On August 21 2015 16:15 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 15:49 DarkCore wrote:On August 21 2015 15:34 cLutZ wrote:
Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper. I hate those players: they believe that because they're carrying they're entitled to belittling their team, meaning everyone else feels like shit and plays worse, so that they seem to be carrying even more. I report people who boast at the cost of their team on a regular basis. Being carried is nice, but honestly I'd rather lose than have fed Riven say 'GG, carried this loser team, EZ'. Even better is when you're winning as a team and someone still thinks it's all because of them. Lets say you hate those players. Do you honestly hate them more than the intentional champ select trolls which Riot has continued to not deal with?
Did you know you can dislike people verbally being assholes AND champ select trolls? It not choose one or the other ffs. It just happens to be that banning for chatlogs as opposed to figuring out who had 'priority' on mid is much, much, easier.
The sense of entitlement of the people whining in that reddit thread is amazing. All those ppl threatening to go play Dota instead. it'll be hilarious when they find themselve in dota's low prioriy queue and not getting drops or able to play anything bull all random.
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On August 21 2015 16:44 SHr3DD3r wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 14:27 GrandInquisitor wrote:On August 21 2015 14:25 SHr3DD3r wrote:
Except that the chat restriction system is retarded and not 100% fool proof. Found the chat restricted player! Except I am not. g g no re. bb
From what random people post as 'unfairly punished' and the lyte smite threads, the system is very accurate. You can also appeal to riot support, but again, the vast majority of appeals are baseless. They vetted a huge number of reports to tune the system before turning on full automation. Its not like they just threw up some machine that banned you if you were reported x times.
Then again Riot could also be a giant conspiracy machine, covering up and falsifying numbers. /s
ahhh i didn't edit the post properly =/
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On August 21 2015 14:11 Caiada wrote:If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny.
Ranked should be a skill contest, not a popularity one. Pretty simple.
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On August 21 2015 17:00 JJMC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 14:11 Caiada wrote:If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny. Ranked should be a skill contest, not a popularity one. Pretty simple.
So to equate this to a not-internet situation. It would be like playing in some tournament, then you start cussing out your opponent, do some shit like splash water over them, then argue that you shouldn't be disqualified because the tournament is a skill contest, not who's nice to their opponent.
Sportsmanship is a thing. A big thing actually, in most games. For some reason when its being applied on the internet all these people come out with some very strange reasons why sportsmanship doesn't matter.
This whole disconnect between interactions with people online versus offline is ridiculous. In any offline scenario, most of these people would be way beyond what's needed to be banned from participating in any competitive scene. They won't even be able to play, let alone get rewarded for their skill.
I hope they follow through with this. If all the people threatening to quit actually do it would probably improve the community so much. Too bad they just pretending and probably won't.
Can someone help me stop double posting. I'm apparantly retarded when it comes to hitting the correct buttons -_-
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On August 21 2015 17:30 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 17:00 JJMC wrote:On August 21 2015 14:11 Caiada wrote:If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny. Ranked should be a skill contest, not a popularity one. Pretty simple. So to equate this to a not-internet situation. It would be like playing in some tournament, then you start cussing out your opponent, do some shit like splash water over them, then argue that you shouldn't be disqualified because the tournament is a skill contest, not who's nice to their opponent. This whole disconnect between interactions with people online versus offline is ridiculous. In any offline scenario, most of these people would be way beyond what's needed to be banned from participating in any competitive scene. They won't even be able to play, let alone get rewarded for their skill. I hope they follow through with this. If all the people threatening to quit actually do it would probably improve the community so much. Too bad they just pretending and probably won't.
Indeed, common human decency is the best reason to ban chat-restricted players from getting season rewards.
I don't think people who tell you to go kill yourself or get cancer should be rewarded with anything.If he were playing in any face-to-face game or sport, he'd be told to never come back.
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I could not care less about borders (decayed from platinum V with points to gold for inactivity) and I have never been punished in LoL so I don't really think one can come at me and throw some ad hominem argument like "haha, dis guy is restricted xDD". But the atmosphere that Doctor Lyte is creating for this game is suffocating.
LoL is supposed to be a social game too, right ? Not that I have a desperate need for social interaction, but part of the interest of playing with other players is that you get to talk to other people. If you're not playing a solo game you've got to be interested in that part, to some extent. Some people will be to your taste, others not, but that's not even the main point.
The heavy report/punishment system created by Doctor Lyte makes it impossible to have an actual interaction with people on LoL, and that's what I hate about it. Every time a new "punishment" is added, the atmosphere gets heavier. This time around it's people caring about their shiny borders (yet a new category of people, which means even more people) that will be forced to "behave" and won't be able to speak as they like. And every time punishments get heavier or affect a greater portion of the playerbase, the game's chat becomes even more fake.
The idea is that everyone should behave and be nice to each other. Great. I mean why not, even though that kind of world doesn't particularly interest me and to be honest I'm not sure if it interests a lot of people. But whatever.
What does it mean when someone is being nice to you, or even refraining from shouting at you, out of pure constraint, because he has in his mind the possibility of a punishment ? I don't enjoy these fake ass golden masks that Lyte wants everyone to wear. It means absolutely nothing if you're nice to me in League of Legends, because I can't tell if that's because of a genuine intention or because the report system turned you into a comedian or a monkey. I don't respect your silence towards me when I'm feeding either, because it could mean that you actually have self control, or just that you're a scared creature.
Genuine interaction between people is getting killed by Doctor Lyte's artificial behavior system and I find that very saddening. I'd rather have someone be mad at me if it comes from the heart and I recognize an actual person. But apparently people in this thread are in joy as they see that the punishment system gets heavier with every week that passes.
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That equation seems bad as hell. It would be the same as people going to play football, being forced to get random teammates, and when one just decides to score in your own goal you can't do shit to stop it. Even worse, cause you can't even physically block it or prevent it either in the game.
It would be like expecting no arguing, swearing, if you had to play a team game with random people, who might just fuck you over cause of lols.
And don't tell me that isn't allowed either, because I've seen people argue in class and call each other out, and handling it decently.
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On August 21 2015 14:16 Harem wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 13:09 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 12:59 Goumindong wrote:On August 21 2015 12:16 Gahlo wrote:On August 21 2015 08:12 Goumindong wrote:
I for one was shocked that they nerfed Viktor and Alistar but then didn't change Sivir or Kalista; easily the two most dominant champions(LCS) from the prior patches. Not surprised at all, honestly. ADC isn't really a position of power right now, so while champions like Sivir and Kali are crowding out others in their lane, and doing less and less so recently, they aren't crowding out many champions in other lanes. It's not like mid lane where Azir and Viktor were straight up bodying everybody when played by competent hands. uhh no that is not true. Viktor and Azir while the higher picked champions for LPL/LCK are not picked nearly as much as Sivir was. And the only reason Kalista isn't crowding out other ADs is because Kalista is banned in every game. In season 5 Summer Sivir was the second most picked champion in the game behind reksai. (Then gragas) It's about the same distance behind Sivir and Corki (who sucked) that ADs start showing up the mid laners start showing up in droves. And there are lots of them. Behind Sivir is basically no one, vayne, Lucian, Kog, and jinx all have a decent number of games but not compared to the drove of mid laners there. Behind them there is a hilariously huge gap to Ashe and Graves. As I figure it it looks like Sivir was picked in over half of all games played. Kalista was banned in nearly 70% (and picked in all the rest. She was picked or banned in 97% of all games. Indeed Viktor is only the third highest mid ban priority for Season 5. Behind Azir (twice as many bans) and LeBlanc (about the same bans). So it's not like Viktor and Asir had massive pick+ban percentage. There are four mid laners before you get to the next ADC after corki and Sivir. After than you run into mid laners are twice the density as ADs So uhh no. Viktor was not crowding out a bunch of mid laners. As fas as I can tell mid lane had the most diversity in season 5 except for maybe top lane. But it's close between them. Jungle has had the least. Then AD then support. AD also had, by far, the largest gap in win rate between the top champions and second tier. Azir and Viktor stop picks in other lanes from being picked far harder than any impact Sivir and Kalista does. And if we're looking at pick rate, go look up how Sivir hasn't even been picked or banned in LCK playoffs. In competant league, Viktor is absolutely crowding out picks. Teams that wanted to pick a low wave clear champion like Ezreal or Kassadin had to ban out Viktor is risk getting their shit pushed in all lane. But then again Viktor's bad so I guess that doesn't matter. China really liked counterpicking Viktor with Kass though
Makes me curious, a bit. In my experience Kassadin beats Viktor mostly because you can't kill him (E dodgeable if you don't cast on him, W won't be able to stun him, he can stay out of R after the initial cast, and his passive + Q shield reduces the damage further and increases the value of his potions), so he can wear you down. It's about surviving the early levels (where his aa damage will be a higher % of your trades, giving him the edge).
On the other hand it's true that Vikto's lategame was made better vs Kass in the rework in the form of absurdly backloaded Q's aa damage, which is reliable too, but that shouldn't be enough to 1v1 him.
And yeah, Viktor's waveclear is strong because pretty much instant once he reached level 9, but he's far from the only one who can shove a bad clear champ in if that's the reason for him preventing picks.
You could say that Kalista prevents a whole slew of immobile and/or skillshot based champions too, for example, and it would be truer (the following marksman on the list would be Vayne I guess?).
While we're on the topic of Viktor, I'll admit I was partially wrong. At level 7 I was able to one-shot the caster minions with the augment and an amp tome. So his clear is reduced in that you have to be able to farm well enough that you won't miss item buys thresholds if you want to keep nuking the wave. I can't say how much though since I got a kill+assist and my next buy was a NLR so I was pretty safe on the AP front.
Re: bitching marksmen and carrying.
They can't 1v5 unless fed because that's not how their power spikes work, and they tend to need more farm than others for a similar result / a higher minimum amount of farm.
That's not on ranged AD carries in general, though, but more on the design of marksmen I'd say. Most of them have kits tuned around auto-attacking in mind, and generally building crit to take advantage of that. They also lack burst and/or their steroids emphasise dps (Caitlyn, MF, etc.) so they aren't as good as champions able to nuke a squishy then have enough juice left to fight (like some bruisers do... or shit like Azir and Riven).
Corki, Ezreal, Graves, Lucian have more burst in the midgame (some because their kits pair well with triforce), but not to the level of a bruiser, to make up for having more follow-up dps. But maybe if we could have a ranged champion with a kit clearly focused toward a midgame peak, and not relying so much on crit to deal damage, then he'd be able to be stronger at the 1-2 items marks, then fall off if he didn't get fed. That could be Graves' thing between his burst combo and his passive, but he still has to build AS and crit or he doesn't just fall off, he becomes near-useless later on.
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On August 21 2015 17:50 Maluk wrote:
The heavy report/punishment system created by Doctor Lyte makes it impossible to have an actual interaction with people on LoL, and that's what I hate about it.
This is the kind of argument where I always stop agreeing. The punishment system is much more lenient than people who got punished like to claim. I think it is really easy to not be punished, you just have to act like a somewhat normal person.
Riot will always see the exact percentage of people being infracted or that of people being close to it. If the system got too strict and the number of punished players got too high they could immediatey notice that and adjust the system accordingly.
What would be really interesting of course is if we knew the exact percentage of players being chat restricted or otherwise punished. This says it is 1%, although the post is somewhat older. To be in the worst 1% of the League population (who is supposedly full of antisocial assholes) you have to behave rather unusual. To avoid being in there should really not be too hard and still allow to "have an actual interaction with people on LoL".
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But there's no reason to assume the league population is full of antisocial assholes, and off those you can cut off the ones that don't even play PVP, and off those you can again cut off those who go 3vs3, dominion, arams, normal, draft, teambuilder, and then is it still only 1%?
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You can punish 1% of players and create an atmosphere that affects people who are playing in general. In my example the one that is bothered by the system (me) is not included in the "1%" of punished players.
Also, Riot explicitly stated that "gg easy" could warrant a ban if used regularly, and in Europe there were far more than 1% of people saying gg easy. In fact pretty much 50% of my games used to end with a "gg easy" from one side or another, including ironic "gg easy" from the losing team. Since Riot made this statement though, gg easy more or less disappeared, losing team included since it is an "automatically detected offence".
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The system is never going to work anyway, you just replace insults with sarcasm. Riot really need to stop caring what people say, it's absurd.
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On August 21 2015 16:15 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 15:49 DarkCore wrote:On August 21 2015 15:34 cLutZ wrote:
Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper. I hate those players: they believe that because they're carrying they're entitled to belittling their team, meaning everyone else feels like shit and plays worse, so that they seem to be carrying even more. I report people who boast at the cost of their team on a regular basis. Being carried is nice, but honestly I'd rather lose than have fed Riven say 'GG, carried this loser team, EZ'. Even better is when you're winning as a team and someone still thinks it's all because of them. Lets say you hate those players. Do you honestly hate them more than the intentional champ select trolls which Riot has continued to not deal with?
I just had a mild case in my last game (last pick second ADC, took all my cs. We won though, absolute stomp) lol. Your first comment didn't address trolls, I differentiate those from flamers. I just play the game through, either try hard if it's possible, or just play the game brain dead without caring. After the game it's a straight report. If someone dodges, I wait a minute before queuing.
Doesn't Riot have a system that detects players who frequently have people dodging them? Although knowing Riot, it probably doesn't work... Those trolls are rarer than flamers though, I just take them as a fact of life.
The system is never going to work anyway, you just replace insults with sarcasm. Riot really need to stop caring what people say, it's absurd.
Riot needs the tribunal again, screw the automated system outside of word filter. Reward people for accuracy, not number of cases completed, and you're done. As for Lyte's no tolerance policy, it's so absurd it won't achieve anything.
League is a competitive game, even if you want to play for fun the game it doesn't mean others in the game are the same. People will always get hot headed and flame. Trolling is a bit different, it's childish imo, but you can't cleanse the game and make it PG6+
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On August 21 2015 18:50 Ansibled wrote:
The system is never going to work anyway, you just replace insults with sarcasm. Riot really need to stop caring what people say, it's absurd.
That will never happen sadly since there is an automated system.It can't detect sarcasm lol.
How I see the whine "Oh no riot are going to take away my tiara....They ruined my sweet 16  "
Also seems kind of stupid to punish the people who "reformed" and there were actually people like the guy who got restricted for flaming himself.
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On August 21 2015 17:30 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 17:00 JJMC wrote:On August 21 2015 14:11 Caiada wrote:If somebody could explain why people who get chat restricted should get ranked rewards, I'd like to hear it. The argument is probably pretty funny. Ranked should be a skill contest, not a popularity one. Pretty simple. So to equate this to a not-internet situation. It would be like playing in some tournament, then you start cussing out your opponent, do some shit like splash water over them, then argue that you shouldn't be disqualified because the tournament is a skill contest, not who's nice to their opponent. Sportsmanship is a thing. A big thing actually, in most games. For some reason when its being applied on the internet all these people come out with some very strange reasons why sportsmanship doesn't matter. This whole disconnect between interactions with people online versus offline is ridiculous. In any offline scenario, most of these people would be way beyond what's needed to be banned from participating in any competitive scene. They won't even be able to play, let alone get rewarded for their skill. I hope they follow through with this. If all the people threatening to quit actually do it would probably improve the community so much. Too bad they just pretending and probably won't. Can someone help me stop double posting. I'm apparantly retarded when it comes to hitting the correct buttons -_-
I'm not really sure what types of sports you are playing but if you do something illegal on the pitch you'll be carded(warned) or removed(red) from the game. It typically won't effect your season unless you playing at a pro/semi-pro level where it may make you lose out on next game. Swearing at your opponent is pretty normal too. As long as you aren't being racist or going overboard calling someone "a fucking idiot" is pretty normal in all sports I've played. Hell in high school cricket guys would sit there insulting you quietly while you trying to bat to psych you out. Then after the game we would shake hands and have a laugh because we were mature enough to understand that what happens in the game doesn't reflect how we are outside of the game.
Honestly hearing LoL people talk about sports analogies to justify this whiney crybaby "toxicity" bullcrap makes me wonder how many sports they actually played. If this was real life you would have to grow some thicker skin to handle actually playing.
It's also kind of hilarious how much schadenfreude is going on now. I wonder how so many people will think if they got a low priority for something out of their control or a short chat restriction because they had a bad day. Really all the people basking in this decision are more "toxic" than the toxic people.
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On August 21 2015 20:46 Numy wrote:Honestly hearing LoL people talk about sports analogies to justify this whiney crybaby "toxicity" bullcrap makes me wonder how many sports they actually played. If this was real life you would have to grow some thicker skin to handle actually playing.
Stupid part is that you used to have to grow a thicker skin in other games too, like, where did the victim, can't find the mute button mentality come from?
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I mean I'm all for guys that go overboard flaming getting punished that's never been an issue but it seems like people want anything that could be perceived in a negative light to be punished. I personally think flaming or calling people dumb doesn't help you win anyway. That doesn't mean someone calling something dumb I did dumb deserves punishment or is somehow "toxic". We aren't all little snowflakes, human interaction is always going to have some bothersome elements that you just have to deal with. In a competitive game/sports/event that's going to be a little bit worse as peoples emotions are heightened, one just has to accept there is going to be some small strife regardless of what you try to do.
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If they want to make a nice person ranking system, sure, why not? But don't take away from the skill rank, because of something that has 0 to do with skill.
That's like saying a pro football player isn't that great cause he says racist stuff off the field. Does that decrease his skill level? The f?
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I feel like we've had this discussion before. Many times. People got different priorities, some wanna win no matter what and some would rather lose than win thanks to a racist. There's a case to be made for thick skin, sure, but there already exists a case for not wanting to play with a jerk, no matter the outcome.
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Fine, allow people to select preferences to count in matchmaking, like Xbox live. Let those who just wanna play, and rather lose because of someone else than to win, go normals. Let the ones who wanna win go ranked.
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I don't know why talking about racism here. Racism is not tolerated in football at all. You get suspended and fined for it. It shouldn't be tolerated in League either.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
The thing is, I'd be sympathetic and understanding of all these arguments if it weren't for the fact that 95% of all players aren't chat restricted and never will be. That's why it's so easy to tell who's chat restricted here, because to a normal, socially well-adjusted human being, it's never an issue.
On August 21 2015 17:52 JJMC wrote:
That equation seems bad as hell. It would be the same as people going to play football, being forced to get random teammates, and when one just decides to score in your own goal you can't do shit to stop it. Even worse, cause you can't even physically block it or prevent it either in the game.
It would be like expecting no arguing, swearing, if you had to play a team game with random people, who might just fuck you over cause of lols.
And don't tell me that isn't allowed either, because I've seen people argue in class and call each other out, and handling it decently.
I think this actually perfectly sums up the insanely warped mindset of a chat restricted player. "Yes, I'm chat restricted but only because people are scoring in my own goal! They deserved being flamed and called worthless cancer faggot cunts!"
Whereas in real life, if you've actually ever played club or intramural soccer, how do people respond when you accidentally score an own goal? Do they stop playing, say "GG FF @ 90, can't carry these fucking noobs", and spend the rest of the game telling you how bad you are and how you don't deserve to be in Division I and how you should go and kill yourself? Or do they say, "It's OK, let's move on" because they're on the same team as you, and just want to win? Do you not think that your league would pretty quickly kick out a player like the former? Behavior that is 100% unthinkable in real sports merely gets a chat restriction in League.
There's this ridiculous implication that you're getting chat restricted for "just swearing". I fucking swear all the time in my games. I blame my teammates. I get mad at them. And I've never gotten chat restricted - not because I'm just lucky, since the system is automated - but because I'm not a raging douchenozzle in the 5% worst of the server. I already think my behavior is bad, so if your behavior is miles worse than mine and you still believe you deserve all these cosmetic rewards (let's be honest: it's a skin + a loading border), I don't have much sympathy.
Similarly hilarious reasoning:
On August 21 2015 16:15 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 15:49 DarkCore wrote:On August 21 2015 15:34 cLutZ wrote:
Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper. I hate those players: they believe that because they're carrying they're entitled to belittling their team, meaning everyone else feels like shit and plays worse, so that they seem to be carrying even more. I report people who boast at the cost of their team on a regular basis. Being carried is nice, but honestly I'd rather lose than have fed Riven say 'GG, carried this loser team, EZ'. Even better is when you're winning as a team and someone still thinks it's all because of them. Lets say you hate those players. Do you honestly hate them more than the intentional champ select trolls which Riot has continued to not deal with?
On August 21 2015 15:34 cLutZ wrote:
Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper.
Yes, because there are other people who are worse, my horrible behavior that ruins games shouldn't be punished. Oh wait, there's an automated system that permabans intentional feeders: http://ask.fm/RiotLyte/answer/131708836802 Shit, better find something else to blame. No problem is my own fault. Also I can't carry out of Bronze V because of my teammates.
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There is a difference in deciding to score an own goal and doing it on accident*.
People also call the opponent team names and shit in sports but you can get restricted for writing gg ez in all chat in league.Don't see how those analogies to sports hold up at all tbh.
That system isn't up yet so it is irrelevant.
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It seems a bit pretentious to me to say that it's easy to tell who is chat restricted here. It's making rather large leaps of logic for no real reason other than to justify a position. One can have a problem with the proposed punishment without it actually having an effect on them. It's also wrong to use your own personal experience to justify others misfortune.
At the end of the day it reads like this "I've never been punished therefore these people don't deserve this reward that's always been given for rank but now changes mid season". It's a childish approach to the situation. I guess we are inherently childish society anyway so it makes sense.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Seriously, dude, nafta, it is like someone created a perfectly logical and rational being, and then made you, the exact opposite, to balance that out. People are not chat restricted because they're fighting a valiant fight against intentional feeders and 0/40/0 mobility boots Rammus. They're chat restricted because they think they're doing that, but really it's just against some poor schmuck who lost lane.
People call each other names and are mean in sports. But not to their own team. The community decided they didn't want to see "gg ez"; for better or worse, that's the community we're in, and somehow 95% of players can avoid getting banned. Obviously the other 5% is just a bunch of poor misunderstood dudes having bad days who said "darn" and "gg" and now can't get their loading screen borders and don't you just feel so bad for them. Funny how they never make those same excuses for the people they are flaming.
On August 21 2015 21:41 Numy wrote:
It seems a bit pretentious to me to say that it's easy to tell who is chat restricted here. It's making rather large leaps of logic for no real reason other than to justify a position. One can have a problem with the proposed punishment without it actually having an effect on them. It's also wrong to use your own personal experience to justify others misfortune.
At the end of the day it reads like this "I've never been punished therefore these people don't deserve this reward that's always been given for rank but now changes mid season". It's a childish approach to the situation. I guess we are inherently childish society anyway so it makes sense.
It's not an assumption based on their position; it's an assumption based on their logic. There's a philosophical argument to be made here, sure. Is it negative reinforcement or positive, since even though it's technically a reward for good behavior, people see it as negative reinforcement because they feel entitled to the reward? Interesting stuff.
And if people were talking about that, that's a totally different story. But when people come in here saying shit like "anyone can get chat restricted" and "the chat restriction system is bullshit" and "everyone has a bad day, you shouldn't get chat restricted for telling people who are bad that they suck" and "if this were a real sport I totally could tell my teammate he's a cancer faggot cunt and no one would care" and "why should i be punished when they can't just use the mute button", it's pretty fucking obvious that they're looking out for themselves.
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You really assume a lot of stuff for some reason.When did I say it is easy to get chat restricted or that the system is random?
All I said was that if the people who got chat restricted don't get restricted again should get rewards since the system made them better according to riot.Is this really that much of a crazy opinion?
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This isn't really about that philosophical argument though. This is about fairness in my opinion. Riot put a system in place that punished players. Ok I can understand that. Now with a few months left they add that this system also removes the reward system they had in prior years. That just isn't fair to me. That's just as "toxic" as the people being punished. You don't deal with jerks by being a jerk yourself. That just creates a world of assholes. If they wanted this to remove the rewards for the ladder than they should have had that in place when the new punishment system was put in place. They can do this for next season if they really want. That will then become about philosophy.
As a side note I also hate that saying "life is unfair". The universe isn't sentient. We cause the shit by being assholes.
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The main problem isn't about the banned people themselves, it's about the pressure it puts on everyone else in order to have these "1%" people banned. When you can eradicate, within a month, a certain expression in a game (let's take "gg ez" as an example), you know in-game interactions between players are heavily restricted by Riot, and you know that the players can feel the all-seeing eye upon them in every single game they are playing. Not sure if it's worth creating such an atmosphere in order to "get the assholes" really.
Also retroactive punishment isn't "fairness", it's just hating on the banned people. Lyte's basically saying "fuck you restricted players" with this one. Punishing I can understand ; that's retarded but I see what the project could be in Lyte's mind. Retroactive punishment is plain and simple hate. Which is not only retarded, but unfair, disgusting, and everything else.
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On August 21 2015 21:31 GrandInquisitor wrote:
The thing is, I'd be sympathetic and understanding of all these arguments if it weren't for the fact that 95% of all players aren't chat restricted and never will be. That's why it's so easy to tell who's chat restricted here, because to a normal, socially well-adjusted human being, it's never an issue.
95% of all players, remove from those the ones that aren't 30, the ones that play ARAM, 3vs3, Dominion, Blind Pick, Draft, Ranked team and Teambuilder, and tell me if it's still 95%.
On August 21 2015 21:31 GrandInquisitor wrote:I think this actually perfectly sums up the insanely warped mindset of a chat restricted player. "Yes, I'm chat restricted but only because people are scoring in my own goal! They deserved being flamed and called worthless cancer faggot cunts!"
You go play futeball in the nearby field, there's 10 players, one of them starts scoring on your own goal intentionally, you really think people are just gonna be like, "keep trying man we can do this!". Like, are you actually trolling me right here?
On August 21 2015 21:31 GrandInquisitor wrote:There's this ridiculous implication that you're getting chat restricted for "just swearing".
Again, who said it was only swearing? Twisting my words here really hard man.
On August 21 2015 21:31 GrandInquisitor wrote:Similarly hilarious reasoning: Yes, because there are other people who are worse, my horrible behavior that ruins games shouldn't be punished. Oh wait, there's an automated system that permabans intentional feeders: http://ask.fm/RiotLyte/answer/131708836802 Shit, better find something else to blame. No problem is my own fault. Also I can't carry out of Bronze V because of my teammates.
Because flamers can be muted in less than a second. Intentional feeders, AFKers, etc, have been playing for 3 years or more, and I see them almost every game, the same people, so don't point that link to me like it matters anything, when I can see the trolls literally in my games.
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I somewhat agree with you Numy but honestly the ranked rewards are so meaningless, if 1% decides to behave better to make sure they get rewards and in return I don't get a border then fine by me.
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Ranked rewards just really are not important enough for this new policy to generate so much salt. If Riot really wanted to keep this "fair" and maintain some kind of (completely trivial, honestly) "Ranked Rewards are for good players, period" mindset, they could just give shit to players who haven't been restricted and leave ranked rewards as is.
But why?
People here don't want them to keep crusading about toxicity, is the actual thing. I don't like any of the arguments for them to stop doing so, honestly, because they're a lot of 'well this other game has no problem with it' and 'grow thicker skin', which are both... not arguments.
The whole 1984-esque thing above is also *hilarious*
Again, I was a massive asshole having a bad day after the new system got put in. For like 10 games straight! You want to tell me this shit is heavily restricted? Really?
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 21 2015 21:51 Numy wrote:
That's just as "toxic" as the people being punished. You don't deal with jerks by being a jerk yourself. That just creates a world of assholes. If they wanted this to remove the rewards for the ladder than they should have had that in place when the new punishment system was put in place. They can do this for next season if they really want. That will then become about philosophy.
This is like one of my idiot detectors: if you believe in the statement "The death penalty is stupid because we're killing people to show them that killing people is wrong", then I assume you're an idiot. (By way of analogy, replace "death penalty" with "jail" and "killing" with "kidnapping".)
It's just not comparable at all. On the one hand, you have people ruining games for other players, spoiling the reputation of the community, driving people away from the game. On the other, you are denying cosmetic rewards to the 5% worst people on the server. I see nothing inconsistent in thinking that the latter is OK and the former is not.
I have limited sympathy for those who were chat restricted and got out of it and now can't get rewards. Maybe he really did change! I get it. That's slightly sad.
I have much less sympathy for those in this thread and in Reddit who are essentially wholesale defending chat restricted players, suggesting that chat restrictions should have no impact whatsoever on ranked rewards. I have zero sympathy for you, you chose to be an asshole and assholes don't get nice things.
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On August 21 2015 21:56 GrandInquisitor wrote:I have much less sympathy for those in this thread and in Reddit who are essentially wholesale defending chat restricted players, suggesting that chat restrictions should have no impact whatsoever on ranked rewards. I have zero sympathy for you, you chose to be an asshole and assholes don't get nice things.
Those can be the same.
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On August 21 2015 21:56 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 21:51 Numy wrote:
That's just as "toxic" as the people being punished. You don't deal with jerks by being a jerk yourself. That just creates a world of assholes. If they wanted this to remove the rewards for the ladder than they should have had that in place when the new punishment system was put in place. They can do this for next season if they really want. That will then become about philosophy. This is like one of my idiot detectors: if you believe in the statement "The death penalty is stupid because we're killing people to show them that killing people is wrong", then I assume you're an idiot. (By way of analogy, replace "death penalty" with "jail" and "killing" with "kidnapping".) It's just not comparable at all. On the one hand, you have people ruining games for other players, spoiling the reputation of the community, driving people away from the game. On the other, you are denying cosmetic rewards to the 5% worst people on the server. I see nothing inconsistent in thinking that the latter is OK and the former is not. I have limited sympathy for those who were chat restricted and got out of it and now can't get rewards. Maybe he really did change! I have much less sympathy for those in this thread and in Reddit who are essentially wholesale defending chat restricted players, suggesting that chat restrictions should have no impact whatsoever on ranked rewards.
You really like passively aggressively insulting people. Quite ironic. I assume you are a supporter for death penalty then?
Anyway I find your other logic a bit inconsistent. You use the logic of 95% of the people not being in the system as justification of punishing people in the system but then you turn around and say this tiny percentage is so bad that they doing all these horrible things to the game as a whole. If they so small that they don't matter in one instance why do they matter in another instance?
Also please stop merely quoting one piece of a post when they are linked. That's ignoring the whole to just focus on one idea that doesn't work without the other. Also can you stop acting like people here are automatically chat restricted just because they don't agree with the decision. I personally have never been punished in my years of playing league, neither have I had any punishment in any game I played. Believing something is unfair doesn't automatically mean you are part of the people it's unfair to.
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'I fucking swear all the time in my games. I blame my teammates. I get mad at them.'
This is punishable under Riot logic though.
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On August 21 2015 21:55 Caiada wrote:
The whole 1984-esque thing above is also *hilarious*
Again, I was a massive asshole having a bad day after the new system got put in. For like 10 games straight! You want to tell me this shit is heavily restricted? Really?
You don't think that modifying the very way people talk in a game within a month can be considered as a heavy influence ?
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On August 21 2015 21:55 AlterKot wrote:
I somewhat agree with you Numy but honestly the ranked rewards are so meaningless, if 1% decides to behave better to make sure they get rewards and in return I don't get a border then fine by me.
Arg there's no reason to sacrifice integrity like this though. They can come up with a way to help reform while still being fair. I see no reason to suddenly do something unfair just to further this agenda. It doesn't sit right and I think it isn't the way to promote positive change in the first place.
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On August 21 2015 22:01 Maluk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 21:55 Caiada wrote:
The whole 1984-esque thing above is also *hilarious*
Again, I was a massive asshole having a bad day after the new system got put in. For like 10 games straight! You want to tell me this shit is heavily restricted? Really? You don't think that modifying the very way people talk in a game within a month can be considered as a heavy influence ?
I would think that, if it were happening for more than long-term or extreme cases. I have no reason to believe it is.
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Dunning-Kruger effect applied to to toxicity: toxic flamers don't realize just how toxic they are.
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On August 21 2015 22:03 Caiada wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 22:01 Maluk wrote:On August 21 2015 21:55 Caiada wrote:
The whole 1984-esque thing above is also *hilarious*
Again, I was a massive asshole having a bad day after the new system got put in. For like 10 games straight! You want to tell me this shit is heavily restricted? Really? You don't think that modifying the very way people talk in a game within a month can be considered as a heavy influence ? I would think that, if it were happening for more than long-term or extreme cases. I have no reason to believe it is.
"gg ez" is extreme, ok then.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 21 2015 22:00 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 21:56 GrandInquisitor wrote:On August 21 2015 21:51 Numy wrote:
That's just as "toxic" as the people being punished. You don't deal with jerks by being a jerk yourself. That just creates a world of assholes. If they wanted this to remove the rewards for the ladder than they should have had that in place when the new punishment system was put in place. They can do this for next season if they really want. That will then become about philosophy. This is like one of my idiot detectors: if you believe in the statement "The death penalty is stupid because we're killing people to show them that killing people is wrong", then I assume you're an idiot. (By way of analogy, replace "death penalty" with "jail" and "killing" with "kidnapping".) It's just not comparable at all. On the one hand, you have people ruining games for other players, spoiling the reputation of the community, driving people away from the game. On the other, you are denying cosmetic rewards to the 5% worst people on the server. I see nothing inconsistent in thinking that the latter is OK and the former is not. I have limited sympathy for those who were chat restricted and got out of it and now can't get rewards. Maybe he really did change! I have much less sympathy for those in this thread and in Reddit who are essentially wholesale defending chat restricted players, suggesting that chat restrictions should have no impact whatsoever on ranked rewards. Anyway I find your other logic a bit inconsistent. You use the logic of 95% of the people not being in the system as justification of punishing people in the system but then you turn around and say this tiny percentage is so bad that they doing all these horrible things to the game as a whole. If they so small that they don't matter in one instance why do they matter in another instance?
Well if I don't respond to other portions of a post I pretty much agree with it. For example: I'm a pretty big asshole, I agree. Never got chat restricted though, probably cause I'm not top 5% in asshole.
There is a very easy mathematical way to explain that phenomenon that you describe: one bad player ruins the game for four others, and one bad game ruins a person's mood for more than a single game. 5% of people can cause an outsized amount of harm to others. Makes sense to target that 5% for maximum effectiveness.
On August 21 2015 22:00 Ansibled wrote:
'I fucking swear all the time in my games. I blame my teammates. I get mad at them.'
This is punishable under Riot logic though.
See, people say this to claim that their bans are unjustified. But they are lying. Because I know. I do this, and I'm not even warned.
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On August 21 2015 22:03 Maluk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 22:03 Caiada wrote:On August 21 2015 22:01 Maluk wrote:On August 21 2015 21:55 Caiada wrote:
The whole 1984-esque thing above is also *hilarious*
Again, I was a massive asshole having a bad day after the new system got put in. For like 10 games straight! You want to tell me this shit is heavily restricted? Really? You don't think that modifying the very way people talk in a game within a month can be considered as a heavy influence ? I would think that, if it were happening for more than long-term or extreme cases. I have no reason to believe it is. "gg ez" is extreme, ok then.
'bg' is literally the worst thing you can type into chat, even as a joke it is completely unacceptable and deserves a permaban.
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If someone could find me an example of a guy getting permabanned for typing gg ez or bg once, that'd be cool.
Oh wait, it's a silly strawman, nvm
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On August 21 2015 22:03 Maluk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 22:03 Caiada wrote:On August 21 2015 22:01 Maluk wrote:On August 21 2015 21:55 Caiada wrote:
The whole 1984-esque thing above is also *hilarious*
Again, I was a massive asshole having a bad day after the new system got put in. For like 10 games straight! You want to tell me this shit is heavily restricted? Really? You don't think that modifying the very way people talk in a game within a month can be considered as a heavy influence ? I would think that, if it were happening for more than long-term or extreme cases. I have no reason to believe it is. "gg ez" is extreme, ok then.
spamming gg ez in addition to flaming your shit teammates and your noob opponents that got carried though...I doubt it's literally 'gg ez' only that gets you banned.
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On August 21 2015 22:05 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 22:03 Maluk wrote:On August 21 2015 22:03 Caiada wrote:On August 21 2015 22:01 Maluk wrote:On August 21 2015 21:55 Caiada wrote:
The whole 1984-esque thing above is also *hilarious*
Again, I was a massive asshole having a bad day after the new system got put in. For like 10 games straight! You want to tell me this shit is heavily restricted? Really? You don't think that modifying the very way people talk in a game within a month can be considered as a heavy influence ? I would think that, if it were happening for more than long-term or extreme cases. I have no reason to believe it is. "gg ez" is extreme, ok then. spamming gg ez in addition to flaming your shit teammates and your noob opponents that got carried though...I doubt it's literally 'gg ez' only that gets you banned.
They said it. Riot literally said that "gg ez" is in the "automatically detected offensive vocabulary" list and, if used too much (what is "too much" here, no one knows), could lead to a ban. Seems like the message was very clear too as gg ez is almost inexistent as of now.
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On August 21 2015 22:08 Maluk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 22:05 gobbledydook wrote:On August 21 2015 22:03 Maluk wrote:On August 21 2015 22:03 Caiada wrote:On August 21 2015 22:01 Maluk wrote:On August 21 2015 21:55 Caiada wrote:
The whole 1984-esque thing above is also *hilarious*
Again, I was a massive asshole having a bad day after the new system got put in. For like 10 games straight! You want to tell me this shit is heavily restricted? Really? You don't think that modifying the very way people talk in a game within a month can be considered as a heavy influence ? I would think that, if it were happening for more than long-term or extreme cases. I have no reason to believe it is. "gg ez" is extreme, ok then. spamming gg ez in addition to flaming your shit teammates and your noob opponents that got carried though...I doubt it's literally 'gg ez' only that gets you banned. They said it. Riot literally said that "gg ez" is in the "automatically detected offensive vocabulary" list and, if used too much (what is "too much" here, no one knows), could lead to a ban. Seems like the message was very clear too as gg ez is almost inexistent as of now.
No. Riot said 'gg ez' correlated with players who were the most toxic in league games. If that's the case then I'd wager that's not all the player said during the game or games which caused them to be banned. If people are assholes enough to get banned from this game then I don't care about their pretty rewards.
If players improve their behavior and don't get banned or chat restricted later in the season where do you set the cutoff for rewards? Oh, you can be an jerk that flames your teammates for x number of months before season's end. Play in 2016 if you're improved and desire rewards.
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Is typing ggez worse than offensive gging? One of these gets you chat restricted, the other doesn't. The point is that Riot arbitrarily chooses what to ban, and restricting things like ggez isn't going to make people better it's just going to make them insult you in a different way so why bother? Sure, there's a level (racism etc) that shouldn't be tolerated but 'ggez' is about as far removed from that as you can get.
Does typing ggez deserve a chat restriction? I don't think so.
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Why do rewards for skill get neutered by behaviour? The hell does one thing have to do with the other? There's no context for anything at all either.
Get to promotions to master twice in february, get some guys losing your game on purpose cause of lulz, you're in promos, go on tilt, get chat restricted 75 games; both times. Fine. That's the punishment.
But wait, you also lose the rewards that are supposed to reflect your skill, because of something that has nothing to do with skill, that happened six months ago? I mean, that even contradicts the whole Riots thing with instant punishment.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
What's wrong in writing 'bg' after game is done? If I have to play 4v5 from the very beginning, because someone DC'd, or someone trolls or intentionally feeds. Or people just troll around and we're getting hammered in 20 minutes, why would I write 'gg' after the game if it was clearly bad game as fuck?
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Everyone who dislikes bg comes from other games where you always said gg regardless of what happens.I was surprised at first when I saw people using bg wp after games.
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GG has essentially replaced the handshake you see in physical sports. Not shaking hands with your opponent in some sports is viewed as unsportsmanlike and puts you in a bad light. Obviously this isn't true for everything and there's a vast difference between intentionally not shaking hands and just forgetting to shake. Cricket for example we always used to line up after the game but in hockey or football it was more lax walk around shake hands.
Saying BG is like intentionally not shaking
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I don't say gg after clearly garbage games (5v4's for either team, or guys actually really trolling.) I just don't say anything. Don't really see any reason to.
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"bg" is essentially you discrediting the opposing team's win and pretty rude. Maybe it makes sense with a leaver but why go out of your way to make the opposing team feel bad? I mean, maybe you had an anivia support that caused you to lose but you can still be polite and let them enjoy their win then throw your mouse at the wall on your own time.
Yes, I also don't say anything if I don't feel like saying gg, that's much better than going out of your way to be impolite~
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 21 2015 22:25 JJMC wrote:
Why do rewards for skill get neutered by behaviour? The hell does one thing have to do with the other? There's no context for anything at all either.
Get to promotions to master twice in february, get some guys losing your game on purpose cause of lulz, you're in promos, go on tilt, get chat restricted 75 games; both times. Fine. That's the punishment.
But wait, you also lose the rewards that are supposed to reflect your skill, because of something that has nothing to do with skill, that happened six months ago? I mean, that even contradicts the whole Riots thing with instant punishment.
This is already the case, though. If you were banned at the end of the season last season you didn't get rewards. How is this any different?
The other way of looking at it is: in real life, this behavior would just get you "permabanned" from whatever sport or activity you choose. A basketball player who screams at his teammate for missing free throws isn't staying on the team at all. (Someone right now is furiously typing a response "BUT WHAT IF YOUR TEAMMATE WAS BLOCKING YOUR SHOTS DELIBERATELY" - as if chat restrictions were only given out for flaming an intentional feeder teammate.) That's the appropriate comparison here, it's just that we're so desensitized to this stuff online that we somehow think the burden is on the victim to be using the mute button, not the asshole who's ruining someone else's game.
So yeah, if you were permabanned, like you would be in any other sport, you definitely wouldn't be getting these rewards. The fact that you're getting any punishment less severe than that, that you're even getting to play, means you should be falling on your knees and thanking RiotLyte for his infinite mercy.
It sort of reminds me of the Chris Rock sketch. Man, you are supposed to be nice to people you low expectation having motherfuckers. All those Redditors are complaining like Riot is imposing impossible-to-follow rules, when really all it requires is that you just act like 95% of all other players, i.e., like a normal civilized human being. It ain't hard. You didn't need to be Mother Theresa or win the Nobel Peace Prize, you just had to be even barely tolerable to your fellow players. And you just couldn't do it because you just had to remind everyone in all chat that you won lane but those feeder faggots in bot lane are keeping you from your Bronze III promos.
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Does the system check for champ select btw? I just got this in a game + Show Spoiler +
BorisSpaski: IM JUNGEL
BorisSpaski: U FUCKING RETARD
BorisSpaski: if u feed
BorisSpaski: i will rape ur mom
Well he went on more but ye just interested if it's only what you say ingame and nothing to do with trolling or flaming post/pre game
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They have access to post-game chat iirc but it isn't checked, and champ select is the wild west basically.
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On August 21 2015 23:41 Numy wrote:Does the system check for champ select btw? I just got this in a game + Show Spoiler +
BorisSpaski: IM JUNGEL
BorisSpaski: U FUCKING RETARD
BorisSpaski: if u feed
BorisSpaski: i will rape ur mom
Well he went on more but ye just interested if it's only what you say ingame and nothing to do with trolling or flaming post/pre game
Pre game chat is not reportable, I'm very guilty of trolling in champion select and have been doing it for 4 years now
You threaten to feed if you don't get your role, saying whatever you want in champion select, and of course you follow through with your threat, but in game you just say "muting team so I can concentrate" then proceed to feed with no punishment
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The bar's not even set at acting like a normal civilized human being. It's so much lower. Don't act like a giant raging douche every game and don't use particular words riot has said are a no go. Those words are not gg ez. They're racist or personal threats. A combination of the two might work even better.
I really don't believe people who get frustrated once in a while and rage get banned or chat restricted. I rage occasionally but not every game and I have a feeling many other league players act similarly without consequences. At the end of the day, it takes someone acting like a real asshole baby. You know the type that won't shut up in a restaurant then projectile vomits all over your food as the server carries it past. Yeah, that's the banned players in League.
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On August 21 2015 23:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:
This is already the case, though. If you were banned at the end of the season last season you didn't get rewards. How is this any different?
Last season people weren't punished for something they did at the very start of the season. Minor punishments wouldn't also take away your rank rewards.
On August 21 2015 23:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:The other way of looking at it is: in real life, this behavior would just get you "permabanned" from whatever sport or activity you choose. A basketball player who screams at his teammate for missing free throws isn't staying on the team at all.
But they do. Like, you can literally just go to a training place and see coaches and players arguing with each other in ways that would be banned in League, and they stick together anyway. I don't get this point?
On August 21 2015 23:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:(Someone right now is furiously typing a response "BUT WHAT IF YOUR TEAMMATE WAS BLOCKING YOUR SHOTS DELIBERATELY" - as if chat restrictions were only given out for flaming an intentional feeder teammate.)
They make no distinction. You could literally just flame intentional feeders and you'd have the same punishment as the intentional feeder who's flaming the other players. Of course, if you just AFK'd discretely or intentionally fed/lost the game, but were a nice guy in chat, you get nothing.
On August 21 2015 23:37 GrandInquisitor wrote: That's the appropriate comparison here, it's just that we're so desensitized to this stuff online that we somehow think the burden is on the victim to be using the mute button, not the asshole who's ruining someone else's game.
It takes you 1 sec, you mute, it's done. How's that victim blaming? Like, you can mute and the problem's gone. If you make the decision not to solve it, over and over, and over; that's also your fault.
It's like, there's a guy going through your street annoying you, and knocks on your door, you go and he starts mumbling and insulting you, and you don't close the door and peace out, you just sit there listening and get all offended at the outrageousness.
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Yea I see a link to it in my EUW client.
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What games are you playing in that you could be banned for flaming only intentional feeders? Seriously, I see perhaps 1 intentional feeder every 50 games.
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On August 22 2015 00:27 Prog wrote:
What games are you playing in that you could be banned for flaming only intentional feeders? Seriously, I see perhaps 1 intentional feeder every 50 games.
Master/Low Challenger in EUW.
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On August 22 2015 00:28 JJMC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 00:27 Prog wrote:
What games are you playing in that you could be banned for flaming only intentional feeders? Seriously, I see perhaps 1 intentional feeder every 50 games. Master/Low Challenger in EUW.
Thought the flaming happens at all elos in EUW
At least in NA, most of the flaming is concentrated to platinum 1, while most high elo NA players treat the game as a huge joke (it really is)
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I'm not talking about flamers, I'm talking about griefers, intentional feeders, losing on purpose, etc.
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The worst part is that a lot of those guys already got banned on their mains and they learned what to write how to troll so you can't detect it unless you watch the game.
Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc
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On August 22 2015 01:09 JJMC wrote:
I'm not talking about flamers, I'm talking about griefers, intentional feeders, losing on purpose, etc.
Oh, that shit applies to high elo NA too
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On August 21 2015 16:48 Kaneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 16:15 cLutZ wrote:On August 21 2015 15:49 DarkCore wrote:On August 21 2015 15:34 cLutZ wrote:
Never been chat restricted. Still think the system is idiotic. Still doesn't punish actual things that affect my gameplay. Also prefer to be carried by an angry flamer than to be dragged down by a polite crapper. I hate those players: they believe that because they're carrying they're entitled to belittling their team, meaning everyone else feels like shit and plays worse, so that they seem to be carrying even more. I report people who boast at the cost of their team on a regular basis. Being carried is nice, but honestly I'd rather lose than have fed Riven say 'GG, carried this loser team, EZ'. Even better is when you're winning as a team and someone still thinks it's all because of them. Lets say you hate those players. Do you honestly hate them more than the intentional champ select trolls which Riot has continued to not deal with? Did you know you can dislike people verbally being assholes AND champ select trolls? It not choose one or the other ffs. It just happens to be that banning for chatlogs as opposed to figuring out who had 'priority' on mid is much, much, easier. .
You might be able to do both. Riot, doesn't.
On August 21 2015 21:56 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 21:51 Numy wrote:
That's just as "toxic" as the people being punished. You don't deal with jerks by being a jerk yourself. That just creates a world of assholes. If they wanted this to remove the rewards for the ladder than they should have had that in place when the new punishment system was put in place. They can do this for next season if they really want. That will then become about philosophy. This is like one of my idiot detectors: if you believe in the statement "The death penalty is stupid because we're killing people to show them that killing people is wrong", then I assume you're an idiot. (By way of analogy, replace "death penalty" with "jail" and "killing" with "kidnapping".) It's just not comparable at all. On the one hand, you have people ruining games for other players, spoiling the reputation of the community, driving people away from the game. On the other, you are denying cosmetic rewards to the 5% worst people on the server. I see nothing inconsistent in thinking that the latter is OK and the former is not. I have limited sympathy for those who were chat restricted and got out of it and now can't get rewards. Maybe he really did change! I get it. That's slightly sad. I have much less sympathy for those in this thread and in Reddit who are essentially wholesale defending chat restricted players, suggesting that chat restrictions should have no impact whatsoever on ranked rewards. I have zero sympathy for you, you chose to be an asshole and assholes don't get nice things.
I think its basically a silly thing to deny them rewards, I just don't think its as high a priority as Riot, and also I think their verbal threshold is far too low for a healthy community.
People always say, "its not this or that" but with Riot it always is, and they tend to pick the wrong "this" at a higher rate than seems comprehensible (aka not replays, not sandbox, juggernauts never played competitively before worlds).
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 22 2015 01:12 nafta wrote:
The worst part is that a lot of those guys already got banned on their mains and they learned what to write how to troll so you can't detect it unless you watch the game.
Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc
Yeah, this is what I mean by nafta living in an alternate universe. In over three years of League something like this has literally never happened to me. Literally never. I have seen exactly three intentional feeders in my games, ever, and all of them were from Season 4 or earlier. Verbally abusive players, on the other hand, used to be one in every two games; now it's dropped to about one in every five - still hundreds or thousands of times more common than intentional feeders.
So when people come in here trying to excuse their chat restrictions by pointing to intentional feeders and trolls, I don't get it. Intentional feeders are so incredibly rare that it is just not part of the League experience for me.
Besides, as I think we talked about earlier - what's the relevance? If you're chat restricted, you were an asshole, and you aren't any less of an asshole because you can point to even bigger assholes. You're basically resorting to the defense that "Found someone worse than me - see, at least I'm not literally the worst human being of all time!"
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On August 22 2015 02:04 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 01:12 nafta wrote:
The worst part is that a lot of those guys already got banned on their mains and they learned what to write how to troll so you can't detect it unless you watch the game.
Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc Yeah, this is what I mean by nafta living in an alternate universe. In over three years of League something like this has literally never happened to me. Literally never. I have seen exactly three intentional feeders in my games, ever, and all of them were from Season 4 or earlier. Verbally abusive players, on the other hand, used to be one in every two games; now it's dropped to about one in every five - still hundreds or thousands of times more common than intentional feeders. So when people come in here trying to excuse their chat restrictions by pointing to intentional feeders and trolls, I don't get it. Intentional feeders are so incredibly rare that it is just not part of the League experience for me. Besides, as I think we talked about earlier - what's the relevance? If you're chat restricted, you were an asshole, and you aren't any less of an asshole because you can point to even bigger assholes. You're basically resorting to the defense that "At least I'm not literally the worst human being of all time!"
Nobody in my family has gotten cancer.Does that mean cancer doesn't exist?
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On August 22 2015 02:07 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 02:04 GrandInquisitor wrote:On August 22 2015 01:12 nafta wrote:
The worst part is that a lot of those guys already got banned on their mains and they learned what to write how to troll so you can't detect it unless you watch the game.
Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc Yeah, this is what I mean by nafta living in an alternate universe. In over three years of League something like this has literally never happened to me. Literally never. I have seen exactly three intentional feeders in my games, ever, and all of them were from Season 4 or earlier. Verbally abusive players, on the other hand, used to be one in every two games; now it's dropped to about one in every five - still hundreds or thousands of times more common than intentional feeders. So when people come in here trying to excuse their chat restrictions by pointing to intentional feeders and trolls, I don't get it. Intentional feeders are so incredibly rare that it is just not part of the League experience for me. Besides, as I think we talked about earlier - what's the relevance? If you're chat restricted, you were an asshole, and you aren't any less of an asshole because you can point to even bigger assholes. You're basically resorting to the defense that "At least I'm not literally the worst human being of all time!" Nobody in my family has gotten cancer.Does that mean cancer doesn't exist?
No. But if you didn't encounter cancer despite interacting with thousands and thousands of people it would seem that cancer is rare.
I mean if you play 1 ranked game a day then you will see about 3200 random* people. That is enough for a confident sample even for low probability incidents. If you're legit not seeing many feeders then it's pretty good evidence.
And we'll a lot of people have these similar experiences with regards to not seeing these people. And sure it's not a perfect study but it's about as damn close as we can get. Give that we expect that normal human biases will tend to make feeders seem more prominent if the anecdotal evidence suggests "low" then the answer probably is "low"
*semi-random since you're limited by your MMR and it's likely that feeders congregate but eh.
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On August 22 2015 02:07 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 02:04 GrandInquisitor wrote:On August 22 2015 01:12 nafta wrote:
The worst part is that a lot of those guys already got banned on their mains and they learned what to write how to troll so you can't detect it unless you watch the game.
Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc Yeah, this is what I mean by nafta living in an alternate universe. In over three years of League something like this has literally never happened to me. Literally never. I have seen exactly three intentional feeders in my games, ever, and all of them were from Season 4 or earlier. Verbally abusive players, on the other hand, used to be one in every two games; now it's dropped to about one in every five - still hundreds or thousands of times more common than intentional feeders. So when people come in here trying to excuse their chat restrictions by pointing to intentional feeders and trolls, I don't get it. Intentional feeders are so incredibly rare that it is just not part of the League experience for me. Besides, as I think we talked about earlier - what's the relevance? If you're chat restricted, you were an asshole, and you aren't any less of an asshole because you can point to even bigger assholes. You're basically resorting to the defense that "At least I'm not literally the worst human being of all time!" Nobody in my family has gotten cancer.Does that mean cancer doesn't exist?
And if somebody in your family has cancer will you treat it with growth hormones? Because that is exactly what flaming a griefer does. The whole point of griefing is to wind others up and get them to rage at you. And you want to reserve your right to give them what they want.
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Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that.
Again you guys are just randomly assuming shit I never said.When did I say that you should flame people who are suiciding in the tower wtf?
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On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Again you guys are just randomly assuming shit I never said.When did I say that you should flame people who are suiciding in the tower wtf?
Well my apologies then, I thought this is what you were going for.
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I think the biggest disconnect here is that for the people in very high elo (D1+) there are dedicated trolls that they run into constantly cause its such a small player pool. obviously in like gold or whatever if you hit a troll odds are you'll never see him again, but in masters he'll quite likely be in you next game. Wasn't there a challenger guy who used to post here (entenzwerg maybe?) who kept getting banned because there were a group of trolls who reported him every game they were in together?
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I do get why people flame them.Because realistically you are powerless vs them.Every time you get matched with them if you don't want to lose you have to dodge.Even if you don't give a shit you still make the other 3 people lose and waste everyone's time.Riot don't ban those players.So at one point you start flaming them.Especially at high elo when you get matched with these people multiple times in a row.Doesn't make it a good idea but is at least understandable.
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On August 22 2015 02:26 nafta wrote:
I do get why people flame them.Because realistically you are powerless vs them.Every time you get matched with them if you don't want to lose you have to dodge.Even if you don't give a shit you still make the other 3 people lose and waste everyone's time.Riot don't ban those players.So at one point you start flaming them.Especially at high elo when you get matched with these people multiple times in a row.Doesn't make it a good idea but is at least understandable.
Well the troll will lose as much Elo as you do though. And he has to play with himself every game, so he should lose Elo quite fast. :D
But seriously if someone plays very bad, doesnt group etc or trolls I think it makes sense to say to yourself "at least this guy didnt win the game". Might be some consolation. One loss here and there because of someone trolling will not change your Elo, as they exist on both sides. And you get to your "Elo home" always pretty fast after having a bad streak (or good streak).
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods?
On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that.
Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see.
Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS.
User was warned for this post
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Holy mother of fuck, you are salty. I mean I barely believe it either, but Jesus.
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Lol if you don't believe me I am not gonna convince you.Again when did I complain about how hard my life is wtf?You really love just adding 10 more lines to every single post.
I like how I got warned for calling you a shitter but you just doing this again and again is perfectly acceptable.
Also my favourite is how you assume I am complaining the people trolling are only on my team  .
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On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS.
http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Lamptern
This guy got away with the most flagrant feeding for like 800 games
Also, there is this asshole feeder in every single one of my games
+ Show Spoiler +what's actually tragic is that people I've boosted still have their ranked rewards while some of my rager friends who legitimately got their elo won't be getting their rewards
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I don't think "not everyone is getting punished" is really an acceptable argument for "X person should not be punished"
It's like if you got ticketed for speeding you can't say "but officer, that other guy was speeding even more why can't you make sure to punish them first?"
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On August 22 2015 04:09 Zess wrote:
I don't think "not everyone is getting punished" is really an acceptable argument for "X person should not be punished"
It's like if you got ticketed for speeding you can't say "but officer, that other guy was speeding even more why can't you make sure to punish them first?"
It is a legitimate argument, however, when the police start prioritizing traffic stops over armed robbery. Which is what riot does.
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Only if you think intentional feeding/trolling is worse in some way than verbal harassment. I really doubt it's more prevalent, and it somehow ruining games worse than harassment is also debatable.
(The strategy thread is a lot more chill. I'm warming up to the split, honestly...)
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On August 22 2015 02:33 Redox wrote:Well the troll will lose as much Elo as you do though. And he has to play with himself every game, so he should lose Elo quite fast. :D
You do understand that some of these players are absolute beasts when they tryhard with their champion though, right? I mean, how the f*** did you think they got there in the first place?
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On August 22 2015 04:59 JJMC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 02:33 Redox wrote:Well the troll will lose as much Elo as you do though. And he has to play with himself every game, so he should lose Elo quite fast. :D You do understand that some of these players are absolute beasts when they tryhard with their champion though, right? I mean, how the f*** did you think they got there in the first place?
Indeed, they actually ruin many more games than the ones they troll in, because they are essentially trolling or smurfing in the majority of their games.
The bottom line is, Forg1ven was competitively suspended for, essentially, calling people shitters. He could have, instead, played Caitlyn in every game, regardless of whether there was another ADC in the game, taken the jungler's first buff, gone to the closest lane with said buff, and shit on that lane, probably still winning over 50% of his games in challenger, without being touched. On top of that, the people who (correctly) call him an asshole for doing that are highly likely to get chat restricted (or banned if they are competitive players).
On top of that, the failure to crack down on trolling creates a 2ndary problem that is more common than both flaming and trolling which is the Passive-Aggressive pick/ban pseudo troll, who implies he will troll if he doesn't get his way, and you have to be a clairvoyant Dr. Phil to know whether he will troll, or will begrudgingly play Janna support or some other FOTM pick in a role he doesn't like.
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On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post
This is an example of such a game: Notice the Garen
And yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is.
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On August 21 2015 20:26 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 18:50 Ansibled wrote:
The system is never going to work anyway, you just replace insults with sarcasm. Riot really need to stop caring what people say, it's absurd. That will never happen sadly since there is an automated system.It can't detect sarcasm lol. How I see the whine "Oh no riot are going to take away my tiara....They ruined my sweet 16 " Also seems kind of stupid to punish the people who "reformed" and there were actually people like the guy who got restricted for flaming himself.
yeah if you use swear words you get banned but if you replace fuck with fuq and fag with fage and nigger with niger you won't get banned
works on TL too actually
but think of all the nigerians im offending
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is.
Hey, that's awesome. Except, that's not what I asked nafta for, and since he didn't put up I think we can call him out on the BS.
He claimed that 30% of his last ten games had intentional feeders. I would be shocked if it was 3%. As noted above my personal record with intentional feeders is more like 0.03%. So a few isolated games and profiles is kinda useful, yeah, but the ultimate question here is: how often does this happen? Because my thesis is that it basically never happens, and pointing to intentional feeders (as both clutz and nafta seem to love to in the never-ending quest to white-knight for chat restricted players) is a giant red herring, equivalent to saying "Why stop me for speeding WHEN THERE ARE TERRORISTS AFOOT".
Hence the "put up or shut up". If anyone here has a op.gg profile with 30% intentional feeders, or even 10% intentional feeders, I'd love to see it. I take silence to mean that everyone else doesn't have such a profile, and so saying stuff like "intentional feeding is such a huge problem for League" represents just pulling bullshit out of your ass to distract from the much more prevalent problem of verbal abuse.
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gg izi instead of gg ez works too btw
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On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is.
Problem is replays don't work for past patches so even if I wanted to I couldn't prove it and I literally said unless you watched the game you wouldn't be able to tell.
Also dodging reduces how often you see people in match history compared to how often you have to deal with them.
On August 22 2015 05:49 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2015 20:26 nafta wrote:On August 21 2015 18:50 Ansibled wrote:
The system is never going to work anyway, you just replace insults with sarcasm. Riot really need to stop caring what people say, it's absurd. That will never happen sadly since there is an automated system.It can't detect sarcasm lol. How I see the whine "Oh no riot are going to take away my tiara....They ruined my sweet 16 " Also seems kind of stupid to punish the people who "reformed" and there were actually people like the guy who got restricted for flaming himself. yeah if you use swear words you get banned but if you replace fuck with fuq and fag with fage and nigger with niger you won't get banned works on TL too actually but think of all the nigerians im offending
Never really felt like I had to use em lol.Just call people animals.Add nationality if you happen to know it.But meh I don't really flame enough to have to think about shit like that lol.
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On August 22 2015 05:53 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. Hey, that's awesome. Except, that's not what I asked nafta for, and since he didn't put up I think we can call him out on the BS. He claimed that 30% of his last ten games had intentional feeders. I would be shocked if it was 3%. As noted above my personal record with intentional feeders is more like 0.03%. So a few isolated games and profiles is kinda useful, yeah, but the ultimate question here is: how often does this happen? Because my thesis is that it basically never happens, and pointing to intentional feeders (as both clutz and nafta seem to love to in the never-ending quest to white-knight for chat restricted players) is a giant red herring, equivalent to saying "Why stop me for speeding WHEN THERE ARE TERRORISTS AFOOT". Hence the "put up or shut up". If anyone here has a op.gg profile with 30% intentional feeders, or even 10% intentional feeders, I'd love to see it. I take silence to mean that everyone else doesn't have such a profile, and so saying stuff like "intentional feeding is such a huge problem for League" represents just pulling bullshit out of your ass to distract from the much more prevalent problem of verbal abuse.
id also be shocked with 3% intentional feeders in 10 games.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Well this is awkward ... http://ask.fm/RiotLyte/answer/131867181506
hahahahahaha
What it really goes to show you is to be careful with your modifiers. I think this is the cause of the problem:
"No, players that get a (chat restriction), (ranked restriction), or (game ban in 2015) will not receive End of Season Rewards"
vs
"No, players that get a ((chat restriction, ranked restriction, or game ban) in 2015) will not receive End of Season Rewards"
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On August 22 2015 05:53 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. Hey, that's awesome. Except, that's not what I asked nafta for, and since he didn't put up I think we can call him out on the BS. He claimed that 30% of his last ten games had intentional feeders. I would be shocked if it was 3%. As noted above my personal record with intentional feeders is more like 0.03%. So a few isolated games and profiles is kinda useful, yeah, but the ultimate question here is: how often does this happen? Because my thesis is that it basically never happens, and pointing to intentional feeders (as both clutz and nafta seem to love to in the never-ending quest to white-knight for chat restricted players) is a giant red herring, equivalent to saying "Why stop me for speeding WHEN THERE ARE TERRORISTS AFOOT".
Hence the "put up or shut up". If anyone here has a op.gg profile with 30% intentional feeders, or even 10% intentional feeders, I'd love to see it. I take silence to mean that everyone else doesn't have such a profile, and so saying stuff like "intentional feeding is such a huge problem for League" represents just pulling bullshit out of your ass to distract from the much more prevalent problem of verbal abuse.
Thats a perfectly reasonable argument when there are terrorists afoot, and when the police keep buying radar guns instead of training bomb squads when 3%, 1% even .03% of the population decide to bomb stripmalls on a regular basis.
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I was wondering why it seemed overharsh on reformed folks. Now I've got no issue with it.
From checking out when the players actually sold those items, looks like your problem is more people having bad games than any kind of intentional feeding. The one case I'd say is absolutely bannable is that Hec (Edit: didn't notice Rumble; him too, maybe just a guy giving up out of salt, meh). Lee sold his items at 23 minutes, not long before the game ended, when you all were 6k behind. Not the most mature reaction, probably reportable. Similar with Zed. The other games look like guys dying early and losing hard. So what? Are we banning people for shit games now? And those are the 'instaban levels of obvious', huh.
I wonder what the chat looked like.
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On August 22 2015 05:53 GrandInquisitor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. Hey, that's awesome. Except, that's not what I asked nafta for, and since he didn't put up I think we can call him out on the BS. He claimed that 30% of his last ten games had intentional feeders. I would be shocked if it was 3%. As noted above my personal record with intentional feeders is more like 0.03%. So a few isolated games and profiles is kinda useful, yeah, but the ultimate question here is: how often does this happen? Because my thesis is that it basically never happens, and pointing to intentional feeders (as both clutz and nafta seem to love to in the never-ending quest to white-knight for chat restricted players) is a giant red herring, equivalent to saying "Why stop me for speeding WHEN THERE ARE TERRORISTS AFOOT". Hence the "put up or shut up". If anyone here has a op.gg profile with 30% intentional feeders, or even 10% intentional feeders, I'd love to see it. I take silence to mean that everyone else doesn't have such a profile, and so saying stuff like "intentional feeding is such a huge problem for League" represents just pulling bullshit out of your ass to distract from the much more prevalent problem of verbal abuse.
FFS dude.
You can just go through his match history and see it all, this was an obvious case with the summoners ofc, but there is a lot of other stuff that's less obvious in there as well.
When basically all the high ELO people on EUW say it's the case, it probably is. It's not just nafta here, you know.
He also never white-knighted chat restricted players.
We all know you love your strawmen (as seen in previous posts), but please cut it down.
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On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is.
maybe the garen had a bad laning phase vs riven (you know how she snowballs) and he mis-selected his summoners, probably not intentional feeding tbh
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On August 22 2015 06:37 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. maybe the garen had a bad laning phase vs riven (you know how she snowballs) and he mis-selected his summoners, probably not intentional feeding tbh
That is the funniest thing I have ever read.
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On August 22 2015 06:37 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. maybe the garen had a bad laning phase vs riven (you know how she snowballs) and he mis-selected his summoners, probably not intentional feeding tbh
Yeah, I hate it when that happens to me too.
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On August 22 2015 06:29 Caiada wrote:From checking out when the players actually sold those items, looks like your problem is more people having bad games than any kind of intentional feeding. The one case I'd say is absolutely bannable is that Hec. Lee sold his items at 23 minutes, not long before the game ended, when you all were 6k behind. Not the most mature reaction, probably reportable. Similar with Zed. The other games look like guys dying early and losing hard. So what? Are we banning people for shit games now? And those are the 'instaban levels of obvious', huh.
I wonder what the chat looked like.
The chat looked like Lee Sin flaming the ever living souls of everyone, and Zed being an all happy smiley face guy after complaining that we had no jungler so he'd be a jungler, that's why he started trolling in a 5-0 game. Because he ganked, tried to outplay, and failed flat on his face.
Like, how's selling every item after surrender fails and AFKing so that you force the game to end not bannable?
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I said it's reportable. It's probably bannable too, but it's not 'intentional feeding' or what the fuck ever, it's him ragequitting.
It wasn't even a game you were winning. You were 5k behind before he sold anything, off the back of what looked like Viktor wiping the floor with everyone.
Again, the chats were probably hilarious from all parties.
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On August 22 2015 06:38 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:37 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. maybe the garen had a bad laning phase vs riven (you know how she snowballs) and he mis-selected his summoners, probably not intentional feeding tbh Yeah, I hate it when that happens to me too.
At least he had the decency to play out the game, unlike the Ahri, I hope she gets banned for negative attitude/afk
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On August 22 2015 06:42 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:38 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 06:37 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. maybe the garen had a bad laning phase vs riven (you know how she snowballs) and he mis-selected his summoners, probably not intentional feeding tbh Yeah, I hate it when that happens to me too. At least he had the decency to play out the game, unlike the Ahri, I hope she gets banned for negative attitude/afk
There is literally no reason to play a game where you get discoed. You want someone who AFKed a lost game to get punished over someone who intentionally feeds.
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On August 22 2015 06:38 JJMC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:29 Caiada wrote:From checking out when the players actually sold those items, looks like your problem is more people having bad games than any kind of intentional feeding. The one case I'd say is absolutely bannable is that Hec. Lee sold his items at 23 minutes, not long before the game ended, when you all were 6k behind. Not the most mature reaction, probably reportable. Similar with Zed. The other games look like guys dying early and losing hard. So what? Are we banning people for shit games now? And those are the 'instaban levels of obvious', huh.
I wonder what the chat looked like. The chat looked like Lee Sin flaming the ever living souls of everyone, and Zed being an all happy smiley face guy after complaining that we had no jungler so he'd be a jungler, that's why he started trolling in a 5-0 game. Because he ganked, tried to outplay, and failed flat on his face. Like, how's selling every item after surrender fails and AFKing so that you force the game to end not bannable?
The same way picking nunu with tp/smite and saying you are top and not going top once for the entire game isn't bannable or intentionally suiciding at tower after you decide your team doesn't deserve a win and declaring it in chat.
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On August 22 2015 06:41 Caiada wrote:I said it's reportable. It's probably bannable too, but it's not 'intentional feeding' or what the fuck ever, it's him ragequitting.
True, grant you that one.
On August 22 2015 06:41 Caiada wrote:It wasn't even a game you were winning. You were 5k behind before he sold anything off the back of what looked like Viktor wiping the floor with everyone.
Yeah it isn't a game we were winning, but are we allowing people to just ragequit like that? How does that make sense? So if I pick a champion that's supposed to go early, go 10 minutes having the same pressure as Evelynn (who also started AFK by the way), and then ragequit, I'm good? Like, we were losing anyway, so not my problem?
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On August 22 2015 06:43 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:42 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 06:38 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 06:37 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. maybe the garen had a bad laning phase vs riven (you know how she snowballs) and he mis-selected his summoners, probably not intentional feeding tbh Yeah, I hate it when that happens to me too. At least he had the decency to play out the game, unlike the Ahri, I hope she gets banned for negative attitude/afk There is literally no reason to play a game where you get discoed. You want someone who AFKed a lost game to get punished over someone who intentionally feeds.
it was a joke
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On August 22 2015 06:46 JJMC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:41 Caiada wrote:I said it's reportable. It's probably bannable too, but it's not 'intentional feeding' or what the fuck ever, it's him ragequitting. True, grant you that one. Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:41 Caiada wrote:It wasn't even a game you were winning. You were 5k behind before he sold anything off the back of what looked like Viktor wiping the floor with everyone. Yeah it isn't a game we were winning, but are we allowing people to just ragequit like that? How does that make sense? So if I pick a champion that's supposed to go early, go 10 minutes having the same pressure as Evelynn (who also started AFK by the way), and then ragequit, I'm good? Like, we were losing anyway, so not my problem?
Of course we should definitely ban ragequitters. Report the fuck out of him; people who say it does nothing are idiots. But pretending like that means there's an intentional feeder in something as outrageous as 1 in 3 games is ridiculously dishonest. I see something like Garen in maybe 1 in 50 games? At worst?
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On August 22 2015 06:46 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:43 Ansibled wrote:On August 22 2015 06:42 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 06:38 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 06:37 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. maybe the garen had a bad laning phase vs riven (you know how she snowballs) and he mis-selected his summoners, probably not intentional feeding tbh Yeah, I hate it when that happens to me too. At least he had the decency to play out the game, unlike the Ahri, I hope she gets banned for negative attitude/afk There is literally no reason to play a game where you get discoed. You want someone who AFKed a lost game to get punished over someone who intentionally feeds. it was a joke
Hard to tell in this thread atm
I got wooshed.
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On August 22 2015 06:43 Ansibled wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:42 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 06:38 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 06:37 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. maybe the garen had a bad laning phase vs riven (you know how she snowballs) and he mis-selected his summoners, probably not intentional feeding tbh Yeah, I hate it when that happens to me too. At least he had the decency to play out the game, unlike the Ahri, I hope she gets banned for negative attitude/afk There is literally no reason to play a game where you get discoed. You want someone who AFKed a lost game to get punished over someone who intentionally feeds.
Looks like you might want to buy a new sarcasm detector, it has malfunctioned on both of 101toss' posts.
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On August 22 2015 06:49 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:43 Ansibled wrote:On August 22 2015 06:42 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 06:38 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 06:37 101toss wrote:On August 22 2015 05:41 Fildun wrote:On August 22 2015 02:37 GrandInquisitor wrote:I'm so confused. Your space bar obviously works but it's like you're not allowed to use it after periods? On August 22 2015 02:20 nafta wrote:
Well I have played with 3 in my last 10 for what it is worth.Also I don't consider going 0/10 cuz you are a bad player intentionally losing the game before you start telling me that. Pics or it didn't happen, put up or shut up. Show me that 30% of your games are filled with intentional feeders or something comparable to "Like picking eve jungle and dancing next to your mid,smiting his cannons,writing "sorry guys i am having a bad day/game" etc". Link that OP.GG and let's see. Either I learn a valuable lesson about how tough nafta's life is, or we get to call someone out on the BS. User was warned for this post This is an example of such a game: Notice the GarenAnd yes, it's not as uncommon as you think it is. maybe the garen had a bad laning phase vs riven (you know how she snowballs) and he mis-selected his summoners, probably not intentional feeding tbh Yeah, I hate it when that happens to me too. At least he had the decency to play out the game, unlike the Ahri, I hope she gets banned for negative attitude/afk There is literally no reason to play a game where you get discoed. You want someone who AFKed a lost game to get punished over someone who intentionally feeds. Looks like you might want to buy a new sarcasm detector, it has malfunctioned on both of 101toss' posts.
RIP.
I lost track of everything after the 0.03% thing.
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On August 22 2015 06:48 Caiada wrote:Of course we should definitely ban ragequitters. Report the fuck out of him; people who say it does nothing are idiots. But pretending like that means there's an intentional feeder in something as outrageous as 1 in 3 games is ridiculously dishonest. I see something like Garen in maybe 1 in 50 games? At worst?
Dude, ragequitters, trolls, intentional feeders, pretty much all the same as in they ruin your gameplay completely. Now, if you wanna argue about intentionally feeding, like, blatantly or more discretely; I won't go into that, we do not have replays and to go through match history doesn't even paint a fraction of the picutre.
I disagree with 1 in 50. A lot. 1 in 15 is being uber generous from where I'm standing.
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On August 22 2015 06:52 JJMC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:48 Caiada wrote:Of course we should definitely ban ragequitters. Report the fuck out of him; people who say it does nothing are idiots. But pretending like that means there's an intentional feeder in something as outrageous as 1 in 3 games is ridiculously dishonest. I see something like Garen in maybe 1 in 50 games? At worst? Dude, ragequitters, trolls, intentional feeders, pretty much all the same as in they ruin your gameplay completely. Now, if you wanna argue about intentionally feeding, like, blatantly or more discretely; I won't go into that, we do not have replays and to go through match history doesn't even paint a fraction of the picutre. I disagree with 1 in 50. A lot. 1 in 15 is being uber generous from where I'm standing.
Then you count people like HWA SuperAZE who autolock supp regardless of if your team has one picked before him, you add all the dodges you do(obviously this includes the "you lost me this one game once upon a time prepare to lose") and you get pretty fucking close.
Like I am not even high elo.Only a d2/d1 shitter and I still get this shit all the time.
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I guess it's really unbelievable for the majority of the community. Must be standard with the can't carry low elo + high elo is heaven package. I understand I'm stereotyping here but....... damn. Years upon years. Gets tiring.
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I dunno, high Elo and EUW are probably different, but even when I'm spamming trolly low ARAMs, I have more problems with people who literally just started the game than actual intentional feeders or people build trolling.
I'm including people building troll shit, like AP Zed or whatever, in the intentional feeder category. Close enough, really. And I just don't see them often enough to see it as some huge problem.
Ragequitting, yeah, that's probably 1 in 5 games on the best of days, but I don't view it was nearly as severe. You're not ruining the game from the start like an AFKer or a guy dying every minute from the beginning of the game. Both of those apparently-severe cases above weren't more than 5 minutes before the game ended anyway. It's frustrating and they're usually spamming hate in the chat, but it's really not the same level of game-ruining.
I'm not high Elo because I suck at the game; don't bother.
People saying 'every high Elo EU player agrees' is also not really convincing. That just makes me think there's something endemic in the community. It's also an echo chamber. Watching more high Elo streams than most, EU and NA, I still don't see any reason to believe it's that common.
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On August 22 2015 06:53 nafta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:52 JJMC wrote:On August 22 2015 06:48 Caiada wrote:Of course we should definitely ban ragequitters. Report the fuck out of him; people who say it does nothing are idiots. But pretending like that means there's an intentional feeder in something as outrageous as 1 in 3 games is ridiculously dishonest. I see something like Garen in maybe 1 in 50 games? At worst? Dude, ragequitters, trolls, intentional feeders, pretty much all the same as in they ruin your gameplay completely. Now, if you wanna argue about intentionally feeding, like, blatantly or more discretely; I won't go into that, we do not have replays and to go through match history doesn't even paint a fraction of the picutre. I disagree with 1 in 50. A lot. 1 in 15 is being uber generous from where I'm standing. Then you count people like HWA SuperAZE who autolock supp regardless of if your team has one picked before him, you add all the dodges you do(obviously this includes the "you lost me this one game once upon a time prepare to lose") and you get pretty fucking close. Like I am not even high elo.Only a d2/d1 shitter and I still get this shit all the time.
the trick is to not dodge at high elo, even the stupidest shit can win
either that or make smurfs/buy accounts (you didn't hear this from me) to bypass the dodge timer
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On August 22 2015 06:59 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 06:53 nafta wrote:On August 22 2015 06:52 JJMC wrote:On August 22 2015 06:48 Caiada wrote:Of course we should definitely ban ragequitters. Report the fuck out of him; people who say it does nothing are idiots. But pretending like that means there's an intentional feeder in something as outrageous as 1 in 3 games is ridiculously dishonest. I see something like Garen in maybe 1 in 50 games? At worst? Dude, ragequitters, trolls, intentional feeders, pretty much all the same as in they ruin your gameplay completely. Now, if you wanna argue about intentionally feeding, like, blatantly or more discretely; I won't go into that, we do not have replays and to go through match history doesn't even paint a fraction of the picutre. I disagree with 1 in 50. A lot. 1 in 15 is being uber generous from where I'm standing. Then you count people like HWA SuperAZE who autolock supp regardless of if your team has one picked before him, you add all the dodges you do(obviously this includes the "you lost me this one game once upon a time prepare to lose") and you get pretty fucking close. Like I am not even high elo.Only a d2/d1 shitter and I still get this shit all the time. the trick is to not dodge at high elo, even the stupidest shit can win either that or make smurfs/buy accounts (you didn't hear this from me) to bypass the dodge timer
If your goal is to just enjoy some games it is better.I have won tons of dumb ass fucking games like one where our team was rengar top/me ez bot 1v2 and pant/rammus/shaco jungle.
My goal isn't really to climb so I don't really give a shit about wins/losses too much.I am just too bad to go anywhere higher than this right now and too much tryhard involved to grind through.
I probably need to get another account like all of the trolls and gross gore snipers.
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On August 22 2015 06:58 Caiada wrote:Ragequitting, yeah, that's probably 1 in 5 games on the best of days, but I don't view it was nearly as severe. You're not ruining the game from the start like an AFKer or a guy dying every minute from the beginning of the game. Both of those apparently-severe cases above weren't more than 5 minutes before the game ended anyway.
Yeah but the games only ended cause they forced it to end, you know? And even so comebacks are huge, some others ragequit before key timings, drakes and such, and just reconect every game after that always acidental DC at the same time when they're losing. "Unlucky", never loathed a word more than that one.
On August 22 2015 06:58 Caiada wrote:I'm not high Elo because I suck at the game; don't bother.
That wasn't meant at you man... more of a general diss at pre assumptions everyone seems to have, and just annoy me incredibly hard to have them shoved down my face constantly while at the same time having your problems pushed aside cause, "well i don't see not even near those many intentional feeders or game ruiners, you must be delusional or it must be your fault"; it weighs on you.
On August 22 2015 06:59 101toss wrote:either that or make smurfs/buy accounts (you didn't hear this from me) to bypass the dodge timer
I've tried but I literally cannot play like a decent human being in low elo, I'll just go berserk unless I have a duo so I can invest myself into that game. I have the account, but I'd rather not touch it until I can either control it or find a duo until I get it on the same elo as the main.
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So Zac with the new range on his E is pretty dumb with a Yasuo. Don't think they entirely thought this one through...
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so chat restric rank restric still get reward
if u got banned once gg no rewards pretty fair i think
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On August 22 2015 07:51 zer0das wrote:
So Zac with the new range on his E is pretty dumb with a Yasuo. Don't think they entirely thought this one through...
Problem is with the number of crazy stuff in this patch Zac hasn't been shinning yet. I really really like his new range though. At least if he's on my side.
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Holy mother of God the new Warmog's is crazy strong, it's like a bloody mundo ult when it's active. Think I'll adjust all my runes and builds so I'll have enough health for it by level 18 for a potential last or second last item (earlier on tanks of course) regardless of what champion I play. RIP poke.
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On August 22 2015 10:25 Jek wrote:
Holy mother of God the new Warmog's is crazy strong, it's like a bloody mundo ult when it's active. Think I'll adjust all my runes and builds so I'll have enough health for it by level 18 for a potential last or second last item (earlier on tanks of course) regardless of what champion I play. RIP poke.
Heart of Torrasque was a great item. Glad they're not making more shitty statsticks. I was building hydra on tanks for no other reason than that lifesteal healed more than regen in some matchups.
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is korea on new patch? havent seen a single skarner yet on op.gg spectate mode only same usual shit we see in LCK every day lol
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On August 22 2015 17:24 kongoline wrote:
is korea on new patch? havent seen a single skarner yet on op.gg spectate mode only same usual shit we see in LCK every day lol
LCK is played on 5.14. At least whole playoffs. Don't know about solo queue as well.
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On August 22 2015 17:24 kongoline wrote:
is korea on new patch? havent seen a single skarner yet on op.gg spectate mode only same usual shit we see in LCK every day lol
They are probably smart enough to permaban him.
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On August 22 2015 18:12 Jek wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2015 17:24 kongoline wrote:
is korea on new patch? havent seen a single skarner yet on op.gg spectate mode only same usual shit we see in LCK every day lol They are probably smart enough to permaban him.
no hes neither pickd or banned thats why i ask
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They will be on previous patch. It takes a few weeks normally for comp play to switch over.
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Well Skarner and Morde has joined my permaban list lol
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United States11393 Posts
kalista janna is freelo vs morde
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Fiora's in my ban list now...After the buffs, the true damage is just too much
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Seems like everyone won the juggernaut rework except Darius ...
Also, ran into some TLers yesterday at MSG:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 23 2015 08:19 Harem wrote:
kalista janna is freelo vs morde
vayne is decent against morde from my limited experience, I ended up going for early recurve bow and maxing W and it felt pretty alright.
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Watching qtpi play morde e it seems as long as he's got a hard engage supp and take exh himself he wins lane pretty easily. Nobody expects the q damage and if he gets in melee its death.
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On August 23 2015 22:52 GrandInquisitor wrote:Seems like everyone won the juggernaut rework except Darius ... Also, ran into some TLers yesterday at MSG: + Show Spoiler +
Only recognize LT.
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Picking Morde against something that can't harass him too safely (like a Nami) and with Thresh for the amount of dumb lockdown + tankiness + lantern so he can get in melee too looks like a good combo.
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going double relic shield (though I'm not 100% whether that's correct) also gives a lot more money to your support then they normally get in lane. It's a bunch of power that people tend to overlook.
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On August 24 2015 04:28 Kaethis wrote:
going double relic shield (though I'm not 100% whether that's correct) also gives a lot more money to your support then they normally get in lane. It's a bunch of power that people tend to overlook.
Yeah, it's a good item, especially for lane sustain.
I've noticed a lot of people on probuilds.net going Triforce second on Morde. I've been going Rylais. Seems to me to be better so he has some form of CC and more hp.
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Morde uses every stat but mana on the triforce really well due to his need for move speed and hilarious base AD and hybrid scaling. I feel like you have to get it first.
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And it also goes well with Sterak's for even more comical scaling and also less dying. They're both pretty ideal for him.
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Steraks feels really inefficient to me compared to titanic or DMP. Is Steraks super cheap or something and I am just missing it. I mean at level 18 Steraks caps at 37.5 /75 AD max. Titanic is 50 AD plus the on hit (which is really underrated ) plus the aa reset.
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On August 24 2015 06:17 Goumindong wrote:
Steraks feels really inefficient to me compared to titanic or DMP. Is Steraks super cheap or something and I am just missing it. I mean at level 18 Steraks caps at 37.5 /75 AD max. Titanic is 50 AD plus the on hit (which is really underrated ) plus the aa reset.
I'd get all three for the most damage, but Sterak's is nice both because it's cheap (2.5k for 500-800 health depending on how well you use the shield) and increases Tforce procs. I think you could go either first after Tforce, tbh.
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On August 24 2015 06:17 Goumindong wrote:
Steraks feels really inefficient to me compared to titanic or DMP. Is Steraks super cheap or something and I am just missing it. I mean at level 18 Steraks caps at 37.5 /75 AD max. Titanic is 50 AD plus the on hit (which is really underrated ) plus the aa reset.
Steraks is base AD so it doesn't perform as well on champions that are bonus AD centric. It's meant for Base and Total AD scalings.
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On August 24 2015 06:26 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2015 06:17 Goumindong wrote:
Steraks feels really inefficient to me compared to titanic or DMP. Is Steraks super cheap or something and I am just missing it. I mean at level 18 Steraks caps at 37.5 /75 AD max. Titanic is 50 AD plus the on hit (which is really underrated ) plus the aa reset. Steraks is base AD so it doesn't perform as well on champions that are bonus AD centric. It's meant for Base and Total AD scalings.
I know it's just even on champions who have good base AD and Base AD ratios it's not a lot of AD unless you really get the shield on a good point.
The cost is probably a big advantage.
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I think Gunblade adds more damage to Morde's Q than Triforce. While the stats on Triforce are great, Gunblade provides sustain and I can't get over the fact it gives mana. (I'd probably build guinsoo's before triforce :p).
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You know Lichbane is a viable item on Akali, and people build Triforce on Yasuo as standard now, right?
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On August 24 2015 09:16 Alaric wrote:You know Lichbane is a viable item on Akali, and people build Triforce on Yasuo as standard now, right?
I know, I have a problem T_T
I wouldn't build any CDR items in URF, and the only mana item I built (with much regret) were the spellblade ones.
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Going to go through a change from toplane to midlane. Have no idea what playstyle to change to, I was thinking about permashove/invade enemy jungle, but I have no idea who I should watch to learn a thing or two about that.
And also, 0 idea how to deal with Talon, Fiora; this new patch just seems....... oddly balanced to put it lightly.
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Might be a stupid question...but...
Does GP gain experience for things he kills with his ult if he's not in experience range?
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He has in the past, can't say since the rework because I haven't thought about it.
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So does anyone have an explaination for Trundle's winrate crashing after the last patch?
I was sure he would be one of the best toplaners after the item changes, as titanic Hydra seems to be made for him and the Steraks Triforce combo also looked good. Together with tanks getting new toys and his ult stealing every defensive stat.
Yet he fell from 52-58% winrate to 47-52%.
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1-5 must be super rough on him is all I can think of.
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Sterak's seems super underwhelming to me as well, the shield decays too quickly for it to make much of an impact at all.
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vayne is in every single game even more then last patch who dumpsters trundle
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there should be an AD support item, we have AP, Utility, Tanky support items for all type of champions, but we don't have AD item for people who want to troll with pantheon. kha zix, ashe etc supports :-))
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On August 24 2015 09:11 obesechicken13 wrote:
I think Gunblade adds more damage to Morde's Q than Triforce. While the stats on Triforce are great, Gunblade provides sustain and I can't get over the fact it gives mana. (I'd probably build guinsoo's before triforce :p).
Gunblade's higher stats definitely adds a lot more damage to Q (roughly 170 more damage), but that's not exactly a meaningful comparison. Trinity force has its proc which will occur multiple times over the course of a fight alongside some movement speed, health, and the odd crit. Gunblade has its active/slow, higher stats that translate to more damage on more than just Q, and incredible sustain (Q's bonus damage is considered single target for vamp).
Which is better probably depends more on what the rest of your build is going to look like. If it's mostly tanky and little AP/AD then Trinity Force is probably better. If you're going tanky/AP then Gunblade is probably better. Whether or not Gunblade should be a first item versus sitting on Revolver is another interesting question.
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Alright I haven't played in a while but I'm pretty interested after watching LCS stuff.
I heard a bit about the recent patches, how are Skarner and Gangplank doing nowadays? I used to play them both quite a bit and am curious about the changes. I saw GP in an LCS game or two, is he good or just niche?
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On August 25 2015 00:55 Requizen wrote:
Alright I haven't played in a while but I'm pretty interested after watching LCS stuff.
I heard a bit about the recent patches, how are Skarner and Gangplank doing nowadays? I used to play them both quite a bit and am curious about the changes. I saw GP in an LCS game or two, is he good or just niche?
skarner is permaban on this patch, highest winrate hes broken,
gangplank is very strong and being nerfed next patch, he gets banned occasionally
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On August 25 2015 00:58 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2015 00:55 Requizen wrote:
Alright I haven't played in a while but I'm pretty interested after watching LCS stuff.
I heard a bit about the recent patches, how are Skarner and Gangplank doing nowadays? I used to play them both quite a bit and am curious about the changes. I saw GP in an LCS game or two, is he good or just niche? skarner is permaban on this patch, highest winrate hes broken, gangplank is very strong and being nerfed next patch, he gets banned occasionally
Shit I'll have to switch to something more hipster to fuel my smugness.
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GP is slightly overtuned, quite high priority pick. Winrate was low at first but is now higher than pre-rework.
Skarner is currently totally fuckin broken, but is being hotfixed today/tomorrow. Those changes (check the red tracker for full info) will probably leave him in a decent spot, probably still strong.
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I see people talking about GP nerfs here and on the boards but I can't find the source, where are you getting this?
TBH even though I main him and I think he's loads of fun his barrels really do too much damage atm, they're just sick.
edit: nm found it, 45% seems pretty reasonable to me.
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I haven't bothered to play a game since 5.16 dropped, what about Skarner makes him completely OP and getting hotfixed/nerfed tomorrow (during the server switch I assume)?
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On August 25 2015 02:43 Kinie wrote:
I haven't bothered to play a game since 5.16 dropped, what about Skarner makes him completely OP and getting hotfixed/nerfed tomorrow (during the server switch I assume)?
Basically, stats are good.
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His shield scales off health on a low cd making him incredibly tanky with new items.
He has a stun on E which is easy to hit with chilling smite. He's now an effective gank champion when ult is on cd.
He clears the jungle very easy.
It all adds up to give him a lot of power.
Oh yeah he still has skarner ult.
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He's basically this speed demon that's unkillable and does a billion damage. He also has fountains of invincibility around the map
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Skarner currently does it all. If he were ranged he'd be the perfect champion.
Also I hate Kalista.
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On August 25 2015 04:48 Kaethis wrote:
Skarner currently does it all. If he were ranged he'd be the perfect champion.
Also I hate Kalista.
you'll love next patch. I hate her too but she's getting straight up gutted or at least only playable by very high skilled with those current changes.
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On August 25 2015 05:50 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2015 04:48 Kaethis wrote:
Skarner currently does it all. If he were ranged he'd be the perfect champion.
Also I hate Kalista. you'll love next patch. I hate her too but she's getting straight up gutted or at least only playable by very high skilled with those current changes.
Still pro viable?
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She should be viable but without being able to bully lane THAT easily she might stop being #1 p/b ad.Good on riot for nerfing the real problematic abilities.The 90% ad shit was a stupid nerf.Her w/r are the problematic abilities.
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while the R and W are stupid the real problem with her will always be that passive. She's essentially immune to both skillshots and melee champs without an instant gapcloser (look at my icon), at least, without being CC'd or flashed on. She gets ahead a centimetre and you're completely helpless against her.
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She also doesn't do any damage.If she stops getting so fed in lane you will realize that.
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Why would she? With that mobility the balance point would be like 70% ezreal for pro play.
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I kind of wish Kalista was even more polarizing,as in had lower range but was even more of a pest against champions she can kite endlessly. I guess a more defensive version of Quinn?
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On August 25 2015 06:42 Shikyo wrote:
I kind of wish Kalista was even more polarizing,as in had lower range but was even more of a pest against champions she can kite endlessly. I guess a more defensive version of Quinn?
Instead I think she went the opposite way with her kiting getting worse. There were nerfs to how far she could jump back and whether she could jump when throwing Q.
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been far too long from when I played jax and he never was bad anyway. That mana buff looks pretty good for early game on a 3 pot flask start.
Edit:Jax
Counter Strike (E) mana cost reduced to 50/60/70/80/90 from 70/75/80/85/90
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It's not like champions without instant gapclosers are bad enough as they are. A champion like Kalista existing makes them even worse, further cementing the whole 'league of mobility' shit. Kalista, while a cool design, probably limits the game as a whole which just kind of pisses me off. Polarizing champs are good and all, but let them be truly polarizing as in complete shit when they don't get to be strong. Kalista's passive is also strong against other AD's if she gets ahead.
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I LOVE how often posters champ whines compare with their champ flairs
garen flair: KALISTA SO OPP
adc flair: OMFG WTF RENGAR
sona flair: thank god finally leona nerf
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Hmm. Must be why I also dislike Rengar and Kalista as well. And Rek Sai...
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quick I'm in solo queue someone tell me how to jungle in this version of the game LOL
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My hate of Kalista has very little to do with me playing Garen a lot. I always ban her when I do or just not pick him; it's more that her existence makes toplane a more boring place, same as Gnar. It's also the reason both you and me can actually play Garen most likely, as noone actually knows what the hell to do against him precisely because of that reason.
In other news, how significant are the changes to Lee Sin? I've played him a bunch and the new ult feels pretty good, but the energy change might be even better. Generally you'll not get more then 1 auto off and it restoring 20 energy feels.. smoother. Big enough for him to see play at worlds?
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On August 25 2015 11:22 Requizen wrote:
quick I'm in solo queue someone tell me how to jungle in this version of the game LOL
I hear getting executed a lot is great. Stuff has changed since u last played.
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Lee Sin/early gankers are always good. He still stuck around in two different metas that were honestly miserable for him. I'd have to look more into what people are playing and what's good, but I think buffs and the current changes to popular stuff will let him see play easily. I feel like the only question mark is what they do to Elise.
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On August 25 2015 13:05 Kaethis wrote:
My hate of Kalista has very little to do with me playing Garen a lot. I always ban her when I do or just not pick him; it's more that her existence makes toplane a more boring place, same as Gnar. It's also the reason both you and me can actually play Garen most likely, as noone actually knows what the hell to do against him precisely because of that reason.
In other news, how significant are the changes to Lee Sin? I've played him a bunch and the new ult feels pretty good, but the energy change might be even better. Generally you'll not get more then 1 auto off and it restoring 20 energy feels.. smoother. Big enough for him to see play at worlds?
kalista and gnar make toplane a boring place if you like to play garen
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Well ofcourse if you're versus a bad Gnar you can jump on him, but as soon as you get a good Gnar you're just screwed.
If the enemy is bad it also doesn't really matter which champ he's playing. Gnar just has the most annoying kit (if used well) for Garen.
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gnar is just one of those dumb champs that has his cake and eats it too.
a good gnar can beat hard MUs like irelia and fizz but a higher skilled nasus/trundle/etc will never touch him regardless.
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Gnar has been bullshit since his release, as we all know. The tradeoff of "if you're terrible you can't decide when to megagnar" just isn't a tradeoff when you get to have and eat every cake ever.
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So spamming Assassins and high-damage ADCs is still the quickest way to rank up right? How are Kha and Yi doing right now?
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There are so many dramas going on in China LoL. I dont even know if I should write a brief about those.
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On August 25 2015 23:18 niukasu1990 wrote:
There are so many dramas going on in China LoL. I dont even know if I should write a brief about those.
Please do! The more drama the better.
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Bearded Elder29903 Posts
On August 25 2015 23:18 niukasu1990 wrote:
There are so many dramas going on in China LoL. I dont even know if I should write a brief about those.
Much appreciated. We all love Chinese drama, especially if it's about LGD/QG.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
I think no one has mentioned this thus far, but I'm pretty sure Yellowstar just shattered the single-split LCS record with his 16.3 KDA this split. The previous record was Meteos's 12.7 all the way back in Season 3 summer.
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holy shit i went from 100~ ping to 30 ping is this the server transfer dream
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I went from nearly-unplayable 110-160 on usual days to 60. Good times.
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On August 25 2015 23:00 Requizen wrote:
So spamming Assassins and high-damage ADCs is still the quickest way to rank up right? How are Kha and Yi doing right now?
People hate ADC atm (im personally not sure here, im not ranking a ton nor getting it often anymore) but Yi still looks like he does Yi things and is obnoxious. Kha might be in a better spot than most people like to say but in the end still 'meh.'
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If you want to play a mostly-easy AD assassin and are decent at him, Kha's basically always been a solid soloq choice. There's just better choices. In general, if you want to rank up and are good at it and enjoy it, play jungle. Pick whichever of Elise/Nidalee/Rek'sai/Evelynn/Skarner is up, build a bit of damage, more if you're doing well, wreck faces. It's pretty easy to get out of control on one of those five.
QT/Froggen are duoQing, their team is all melee. Darius/Ali botlane... Pro strats.
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32 to 65 its playable but i definitely feel the difference. Guess no high mechanical champs for me anymore
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On August 25 2015 21:54 JimmiC wrote:
I like going against gnar as garen, it's all about waiting for him to ake the slightlest mistake so u can jump on him.
waiting for mistakes gets hard the more you win though
although there are ways you can make it harder for gnar not to make a mistake
it's even harder now with early-midgame garen nerfs
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United States11393 Posts
Riven with 30 ping is love <3
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I heard league was an incredibly easy game where anyone can get diamond
I'm totally allowed to be all superior about tf and make a guide now right?
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Gnar is a doable but shit lane where I am right now (d5) but starts being completely impossible once they stop doing stupid jumps (peaked at d3 this season and the matchup felt completely impossible).
It's more that Gnar doesn't just push out Garen, he also pushes out Nasus, Trundle, Mundo etc. leading to those characters simply not getting practised, because what's the point with Gnar on the table. It limits the champ pool a lot when those characters just vanish, as it also means their other counters that aren't Gnar have no reason to see play. Something like Quinn top, while currently just bad numberswise, has no reason for existing because of Gnar.
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How do you not free farm as mundo vs gnar lol?Shit is incredibly easy.Played the nasus mu a few times and it is basically one of those jungler decided matchups.Gnar wins the 1v1 but has to push really hard 24/7 to do so.
If you want to beat gnar in lane vlad is your best bet.Rumble is pretty good too.Also the yasuo but it is really dangerous cuz of junglers again.
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yeah nasus should be fine against gnar too,(vayneauthority hleps) he has so much lifesteal and he's used to playing passive
maybe you lose in cs but if a jungler comes its gg and once you get FH or spirit visage you can probably afk farm
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nasus vs gnar is a very boring lane, nothing will ever happen with 2 experienced players. its debatable who it favors, you can easily beat gnar in any 1v1/2v2 but in teamfights it can be a toss up. gnar also has better teleport/early dragon presence by a lot.
Gnar hardcounters are fizz and irelia, fizz might disappear after the nerfs so gnar is getting an imaginary buff next patch.
and i wouldnt pick vlad into gnar, you will get bullied hard early and he can 100-0 you in perma CC easily if he goes for the hex/BC build. i wouldnt say that its favorable or even fair.
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Really in my experience you can literally drool on yourself while playing vlad and win that.Asked a few friends who play gnar and they agreed lol.
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On August 26 2015 03:26 killerdog wrote:
I heard league was an incredibly easy game where anyone can get diamond
I'm totally allowed to be all superior about tf and make a guide now right?
TF guide by Killerdog:
TLDR: get carried.
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On August 26 2015 03:55 nafta wrote:
Really in my experience you can literally drool on yourself while playing vlad and win that.Asked a few friends who play gnar and they agreed lol.
I guess it all depends on how you play it. Gnar outranges vlad hard in harass early and as soon as he gets the hexdrinker spike can just run at him and start 3 proccing him until he has to pool. and obviously mega gnar will demolish vlad in any sort of all in. I guess at lvl 7 or 9 you might have a chance at killing him if the gnar is a passive player and is just trading harass with you...besides that idk man.
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Well are you guys talking about building mage Vlad or tank Vlad? I know, lots of overlap, but what runes/masteries you use might have warped your personal experiences. I could see a full tank Vlad with Armor runes and stuff just ignoring Gnar pretty hard.
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On August 26 2015 03:26 killerdog wrote:
I heard league was an incredibly easy game where anyone can get diamond
I'm totally allowed to be all superior about tf and make a guide now right?
Did you get Diamond??????
I'm away for 2 days...
Still, holy shit congratulations dude.
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On August 26 2015 03:26 killerdog wrote:
I heard league was an incredibly easy game where anyone can get diamond
I'm totally allowed to be all superior about tf and make a guide now right?
Hell yeah dude, I've made guides and I'm a shitty silver.
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Who wants me to teach them how to GP at a d5 level?
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On August 26 2015 04:25 Osmoses wrote:
Who wants me to teach them how to GP at a d5 level?
Always blow up barrels. Never not blow up barrels. Use barrels to reset passive if you can.
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Whoah, 100 to 30. Is this real life? One thing I've noticed thus far is that last hitting has become MUCH easier... Thank you Riot
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ping at my university stayed the same/went up.
in michigan.
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On August 26 2015 04:36 Frolossus wrote:
ping at my university stayed the same/went up.
in michigan.
Must have an ISP that isn't playing ball with Riot.
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On August 26 2015 04:18 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 03:26 killerdog wrote:
I heard league was an incredibly easy game where anyone can get diamond
I'm totally allowed to be all superior about tf and make a guide now right? Did you get Diamond?????? I'm away for 2 days... Still, holy shit congratulations dude.
<3
I banned nunu in my last promo game so losleb couldn't disco nunu me, worked out
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On August 26 2015 03:50 VayneAuthority wrote:
Gnar hardcounters are fizz and irelia, fizz might disappear after the nerfs so gnar is getting an imaginary buff next patch.
What about the matchup makes it a hard counter for irelia? Asking as a bronzie irelia main
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well fizz is just his worst nightmare. Super high mobility, trollpole vs highly telegraphed CC moves and threatens to 100-0 at anytime vs small form.
irelia is similar but also very different in how you want to play it, takes a lot more skill as irelia to do this properly. any point past lvl 6 if you can Q to an almost dead minion near gnar to refresh and start AA'ing and stun/slow gnar then you are going to get a kill or blow his flash. Because then he jumps out and you just Q to him again and destroy him.
You can't just q to him because he just jumps out and you trade evenly.
But once you master irelia the lane is incredibly easy.
you can also think of all the little things. mega gnar increasing HP making it easier to get stun off, irelia's cc reduction vs a heavily cc reliant champion, etc.
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On August 26 2015 04:36 Frolossus wrote:
ping at my university stayed the same/went up.
in michigan.
70 to 30 in Toronto.
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gnar worst case scenario can always farm with boomerang i dont see how a ranged manaless bruiser can have any hard counters
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I dunno what I was before but now I'm like 13 to 10
daaang
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On August 26 2015 06:04 kongoline wrote:
gnar worst case scenario can always farm with boomerang i dont see how a ranged manaless bruiser can have any hard counters
Yasuo can windwall his boomerang putting it on a 20 second CD.
from 95 ping to 47-50. Feels even better than playing on LAN. I was playing LeBlanc on Dominion earlier and I came out of Hourglass and was about to q-r before being exploded. Can you imagine? I'm looking forward to last hitting as mid/adc next.
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Went from 95-110 to 48-52. It's nice. Most of the people I play with live in Michigan and Ohio. I'm jealous of their 15-30 ping.
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Low ping is overrated :^)
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so a little more digging, i guess that a lot of michigan universities get there internet from a company called merit. merit isn't on the list yet of companies paired with riot so i'm fucked unless i move off campus and pay for charter instead.
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I've always admired Alex's "I can be better than anyone who plays this game" attitude. It's served him well, minus Kayle devourer mid in the CS.
It's a lot like the 60fps thing, only the difference between that and 30 is a lot more noticeable. 40 to 60 ping is trivial once you're used to it, and a majority of cases aren't worse than that. Maybe it's just because my ping was so shit before though, lol.
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Holy packet loss batman!
Last game on Portland: 80 ping, 38 packets dropped
First game on Michigan: 36 ping, 655 packets dropped
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12 to 60 Still eminently playable (didn't notice anything too difficult in my one ARAM). But still not so great.
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12 ping? Damn, I wish I could experience that at least once.
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I wonder what monitors you guys are using, whether you're playing on wifi and perhaps using wireless mouse/keyboard since 0.02second is apparently such a significant difference.
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On August 26 2015 07:35 Caiada wrote:
I've always admired Alex's "I can be better than anyone who plays this game" attitude. It's served him well, minus Kayle devourer mid in the CS.
It's a lot like the 60fps thing, only the difference between that and 30 is a lot more noticeable. 40 to 60 ping is trivial once you're used to it, and a majority of cases aren't worse than that. Maybe it's just because my ping was so shit before though, lol.
It's not like he hadn't played games in CIS for last 10-15 years to care about 20 milliseconds difference.
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On August 26 2015 08:50 AlterKot wrote:
I wonder what monitors you guys are using, whether you're playing on wifi and perhaps using wireless mouse/keyboard since 0.02second is apparently such a significant difference.
people complaining about ping <100 are bad players and are looking for excuses
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On August 26 2015 08:50 AlterKot wrote:
I wonder what monitors you guys are using, whether you're playing on wifi and perhaps using wireless mouse/keyboard since 0.02second is apparently such a significant difference.
I have a .05 (i think) second Acer. Playing on Wifi(for both the 12 and 60 ping). Wired Mouse/Keyboard(they were interfering with each other and i've got some other EM interference close by so wired was the way to go)
On August 26 2015 08:38 JJMC wrote:
12 ping? Damn, I wish I could experience that at least once.
It was nice while it lasted. But really not much of a big deal unless you're at the very top of the ranking. I will let you all know if i drop terribly out of plat but i don't see it happening (mechanics were never my advantage anyway). But the server move was a good idea.
I could have seen them wanting to stay in LA but Portland is the furthest on the internet you could possibly be from everyone in the nation with the exception of people in WA/OR/Cali and still be in the continental US. Portland is further on the internet from most people than LA is. Its just mind boggling that they went there at all. It would be like putting your server in Miami then routing all the traffic through Chicago and then wondering why no one had a good ping from the west coast.
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Ping is rarely the actual problem, the problem is that mid-high ping correlates with non-constant ping so that ult that you flash during teamfight 1, you get caught in during teamfight 2.
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Doesn't that have to do more with last mile dodginess than distance to the server though? (accepting that the server having issues would be independent of your ping)
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Maybe, I never have problems with USEast (blizzard) or steam. Also the problems used to go down significantly for me depending on if I was in VA or Chicago or Vegas.
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It's not really debatable that ping has a correlation with how well you can play the game.
http://www.elophant.com/league-of-legends/charts/tier?region=all&period=week
In every region it's the same thing. Lower ping = higher rank. You could even look at it this way. The fastest human reaction time is around .2 seconds. Average human reaction time is about .25 seconds. If your ping is increased or decreased by 50 milliseconds that changes your reaction time by 20%-25% which is a quite significant change.
In my experience, playing from 110 on EUW, 90 on NA, and 60 on LAN, I can easily feel the difference among the three servers. You have less reaction time. On higher ping servers, in a team fight, you basically have to preemptively know what everyone is going to do and position and use your spells preemptively. There's no time for reaction, you'll never outplay anyone because you're at a vast disadvantage in reaction time.
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I went from 100ms to 30ms and I don't feel that much different honestly...
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I went from 140 to 24 ping. Praise teemo.
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On August 26 2015 13:18 krndandaman wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2015 11:32 Nos- wrote:
I went from 100ms to 30ms and I don't feel that much different honestly... have you tried playing like vayne or lee sin? everything is so smooth. just look at the difference in tumble reaction.
I've been playing vayne and the lower ping actually messes me up for csing cause I'm attacking a little faster than I need to LOL. I'll have to try lee.
I felt the difference when I was playing Sivir, I can actually spell shield on reflex instead of it being just a little late. Felt good.
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I love all the salt about the server move. Thank god they centralized the server instead of splitting it. Down here in the swamps of New Orleans, I'd have equally shitty ping to New England and Oregon
On August 26 2015 10:45 krndandaman wrote:
I think qtpie said it best a while ago. ping definitely helps but you won't magically become so much better. a division or 2 difference give or take. like if you're gold 5 going from 100 to 20 ping doesn't make you platinum. it might help you dodge that 1 skill with flash you wouldn't have before, but more often than not that 1 dodge doesn't result in a game win in soloqueue. but over time it might win you a few games out of hundreds.
Going even a division matters because playing against better players makes you improve faster. I would never eloboost because it's expensive and stupid, but I bet I'd learn more playing 10 games in Challenger even though I'd get smashed than I would in 100 in Plat where I currently am
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The thing is, one can play League, or mobas in general, in two different ways towards fighting the opponent, that is: reactionary and predictively.
Personally, I feel the higher you get in the rankings, the more it's mandatory you start playing predictively, since the skill of the opponents does go up and they will land that cc.
So what does that mean exactly? "Timing" of cooldowns, predicting when people are going to flash/initiate/use their cc/skills
The reactionary play that you've come to polish, becomes more and more of an instinct you set yourself back into, if you get caught off guard, or if you're put in situations you couldn't otherwise predict.
This is why mindgames are such a big thing at the highest level, it's all about predictability.
This is also why playing on 120 ping isn't that big of a deal. Yet someone with 80 ms of advantage over you, though, that's massive in terms of reactionary playmaking ability. But that's more for the defender's advantage imo than anything else.
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While I agree with you to an extent to me it's more that you can get to top level play with high ping(masters/challenger) but now to be at the top of top you need some form of reactionary play to get there.
I mean people forget that the first gen of Korean pros all played on NA server back in the day and were high ranked. High ping(under 300 I'd say maybe 250) isn't as big an obstacle as most people make it out. Packet loss and inconsistent ping are far far worse. However it's far easier for a player with lower ping to be better than a player with higher ping at similar levels of skill as honing the skillset that may fall under "prediction" is far harder to do.
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On August 26 2015 19:48 Uldridge wrote:
The thing is, one can play League, or mobas in general, in two different ways towards fighting the opponent, that is: reactionary and predictively.
Personally, I feel the higher you get in the rankings, the more it's mandatory you start playing predictively, since the skill of the opponents does go up and they will land that cc.
So what does that mean exactly? "Timing" of cooldowns, predicting when people are going to flash/initiate/use their cc/skills
The reactionary play that you've come to polish, becomes more and more of an instinct you set yourself back into, if you get caught off guard, or if you're put in situations you couldn't otherwise predict.
This is why mindgames are such a big thing at the highest level, it's all about predictability.
This is also why playing on 120 ping isn't that big of a deal. Yet someone with 80 ms of advantage over you, though, that's massive in terms of reactionary playmaking ability. But that's more for the defender's advantage imo than anything else.
Except the bigger the ping disparity, the larger your predictions have to be. Especially at lower ranks, people often don't make the textbook "correct" play. So in essence you have to mindgame an inconsistent opponent to the point where you're blowing Flashes for spells that haven't even wound up and were never going to happen. But you have to anyway, because if you don't you're fucked because you won't be able to dodge it in some cases.
Theres a large functional gap between learning predictive play and the added working around a shitty connection while doing that.
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On August 26 2015 19:48 Uldridge wrote:
The thing is, one can play League, or mobas in general, in two different ways towards fighting the opponent, that is: reactionary and predictively.
Personally, I feel the higher you get in the rankings, the more it's mandatory you start playing predictively, since the skill of the opponents does go up and they will land that cc.
So what does that mean exactly? "Timing" of cooldowns, predicting when people are going to flash/initiate/use their cc/skills
The reactionary play that you've come to polish, becomes more and more of an instinct you set yourself back into, if you get caught off guard, or if you're put in situations you couldn't otherwise predict.
This is why mindgames are such a big thing at the highest level, it's all about predictability.
This is also why playing on 120 ping isn't that big of a deal. Yet someone with 80 ms of advantage over you, though, that's massive in terms of reactionary playmaking ability. But that's more for the defender's advantage imo than anything else.
Except predicting isn't guaranteed while reaction is.The main reason shit like madlife type skillshots work is because players dodge with predictions instead of reactions and ping matters for that shit a lot.
If you can't tell the difference between 30 and 100 ping you would either have to be a REALLY bad player or your pc has to be shit.
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Look at it this way. Can you tell the difference between Darius's E cast time before and after the patch? That's a .075s difference, slightly larger than the average ping change. It's quite noticeable.
It's got nothing to do with how good you are at the game. It's really just a matter of paying attention.
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Well no. Because darius cast time is .75 seconds after you see it. Which is a 750 ping difference and not a 75 ping difference. And games like league have movement prediction (and probably animation speed up) to reduce small advantages
I went from 12 to 60. My ping is literally 5 times higher than it was. Yea things happen a bit delayed, clearly from an academic perspective. But I couldn't really tell. I was just as screwed from a bush ambush as before and I just as able to dodge Annie stuns as I was before
Edit: the average ping increase was less than the animation time of ezreals q. Less than Sonas ult. Less than the average auto attack start animation. In almost all cases the only real problem you can have is with your own combos. I mean theoretically it can mess other things up but the vast majority of players are not playing league at a level where it matters much. No one here is faker.
That being said ping increases get more important the higher your ping already is (until it's so high it doesn't matter). So it's pretty much unequivocally a good thing to trade my +50 ping for someone else's -50.
The only argument to be made is at the highest level of play. But that is such a small population I can't see it mattering much.
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On August 27 2015 01:16 Goumindong wrote:
Well no. Because darius cast time is .75 seconds after you see it. Which is a 750 ping difference and not a 75 ping difference. And games like league have movement prediction (and probably animation speed up) to reduce small advantages
I went from 12 to 60. Yea things happen a bit delayed, clearly from an academic perspective. But I couldn't really tell. I was just as screwed from a bush ambush as before and I just as able to dodge Annie stuns as I was before
We're talking about Darius E here, not Q.
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On August 27 2015 01:25 Fildun wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:16 Goumindong wrote:
Well no. Because darius cast time is .75 seconds after you see it. Which is a 750 ping difference and not a 75 ping difference. And games like league have movement prediction (and probably animation speed up) to reduce small advantages
I went from 12 to 60. Yea things happen a bit delayed, clearly from an academic perspective. But I couldn't really tell. I was just as screwed from a bush ambush as before and I just as able to dodge Annie stuns as I was before We're talking about Darius E here, not Q.
Still 250/320 ping. Darius e used to pull based on what was in range at the start of the cast(air instant) Now it's based on the end of the cast. That was the big difference. That was what people noticed. Not the actual increase or decrease in animation time
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On August 27 2015 01:28 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:25 Fildun wrote:On August 27 2015 01:16 Goumindong wrote:
Well no. Because darius cast time is .75 seconds after you see it. Which is a 750 ping difference and not a 75 ping difference. And games like league have movement prediction (and probably animation speed up) to reduce small advantages
I went from 12 to 60. Yea things happen a bit delayed, clearly from an academic perspective. But I couldn't really tell. I was just as screwed from a bush ambush as before and I just as able to dodge Annie stuns as I was before We're talking about Darius E here, not Q. Still 250/320 ping. Darius e used to pull based on what was in range at the start of the cast(air instant) Now it's based on the end of the cast. That was the big difference. That was what people noticed. Not the actual increase or decrease in animation time
Maybe you didn't, but I did. I don't really get why you're making all these blanket statements without any source or verification. If it's just your opinion, you can just say that.
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Yeah, I meant the .075s difference on his cast time, not the Q delay. I wouldn't say it's the most noticeable thing in the world, but after playing Darius a lot and paying attention to a few E casts, it's notable. I went from 160 ping to 60 and that's obviously much bigger, but I used to be at 100, and I felt a *very* slight difference between 60 to 100 in quick reactions like spellshielding. Similar minute change.
I'm not even talking about pulling people. This was just testing when the animation started after the patch and before the server move.
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So e is now amazingly more responsive? Because I don't buy it.
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On August 27 2015 01:41 Goumindong wrote:
So e is now amazingly more responsive? Because I don't buy it.
Are you really taking a philosophically nihilistic stand on darius's e cast time...
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All I said was it's notable. I actually specifically said it wasn't that noticeable, but marginal improvements are still improvements. Marginal is really all the difference between old and new West Coast ping is. So we're basically agreeing.
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On August 27 2015 01:47 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:41 Goumindong wrote:
So e is now amazingly more responsive? Because I don't buy it. Are you really taking a philosophical nihilistic stand on darius's e cast time...
No. I just don't believe that they would notice the difference in play. Everyone I have talked to besides these two have said that darius e feels slower and wonky and "not working right" and no one said anything like "oh yea the animation speed up made it feel a lot more responsive".
I do not believe that they can notice the .075 second speed up on the animation more than they noticed the .325 second reduction in activation time or the net .25 second reduction in activation time after the patch.
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On August 27 2015 01:50 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:47 killerdog wrote:On August 27 2015 01:41 Goumindong wrote:
So e is now amazingly more responsive? Because I don't buy it. Are you really taking a philosophical nihilistic stand on darius's e cast time... No. I just don't believe that they would notice the difference in play. Everyone I have talked to besides these two have said that darius e feels slower and wonky and "not working right" and no one said anything like "oh yea the animation speed up made it feel a lot more responsive". I do not believe that they can notice the .075 second speed up on the animation more than they noticed the .325 second reduction in activation time or the net .25 second reduction in activation time after the patch.
You physically can't do a bunch of things on over 100 ping (like ali q flashes.) 70ms difference on something makes a HUGE difference.
I have 80ms more playing to na then euw, and I can't do half the plays I normally make over there even after several hours of getting used to it.
Even a 40ms difference in a cast time is super noticeable, 75 is pretty huge.
Your trying to make this some kind of philosophy debate when people have literally just tested it, it feels like trying to explain climate change or evolution to sceptics lol
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Except that I have also tested it with larger relative and absolute ping differences than them and really can't tell the difference. But I am only plat so maybe it really matters to these challenger players. My CS timing is off slightly and that is all I noticed
Edit: and it has nothing to do with philosophy.
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On August 27 2015 02:12 Goumindong wrote:
Except that I have also tested it with larger relative and absolute ping differences than them and really can't tell the difference. But I am only plat so maybe it really matters to these challenger players. My CS timing is off slightly and that is all I noticed
Edit: and it has nothing to do with philosophy.
I don't notice much of a difference between 30fps and 60fps, but many people will swear on their mother's graves that it's easily noticeable. Just because it doesn't fit the way you interact with reality doesn't mean it doesn't happen for other people.
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I think that because you are still much lower ms than what many people have had, you really aren't getting the full Ping Experience. When you get over 100, CSing is a chore that requires focus (and you lose a lot of trades because of it), and auto kiting in teamfights is just a waste of your time. Also, the higher your ping, the worse off (so called) last mile and packet loss affects you. Because when you are at 20, 40 ms a little lag just makes your connection normal (for us east coast plebs), whereas at 110 ms, lag turns you into a Bronze V Israeli playing on the NA server.
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It's hard to trust what people say though as they'll find any excuse for being bad over just being bad.
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Just because you notice a difference doesn't mean it is the only reason you lose or w/e lol.
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Soo guys uh.. which thread should I use if I wanna ask other scandinavians if they're lagging as fuk right now? I tried pinging inside the country and its perfectly fine but towards france and germany its like 500ms.
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On August 27 2015 03:25 Osmoses wrote:
Soo guys uh.. which thread should I use if I wanna ask other scandinavians if they're lagging as fuk right now? I tried pinging inside the country and its perfectly fine but towards france and germany its like 500ms.
I dont have any lag issue at all. Playing on EUNE.
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I'm starting to see a bunch of threads about it on the boards now so something's definitely up.
edit: tried it on eune, no problems.
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I don't think anyone is arguing that you make better decisions when you have lower ping. Just the fact your mechanical execution is more reliable due to your reaction time being improved by 10%-30%.
If a champ had his ability buffed by 10%-30% that would be a big buff. Doesn't mean he'd be a good champ though.
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On August 27 2015 02:00 killerdog wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 01:50 Goumindong wrote:On August 27 2015 01:47 killerdog wrote:On August 27 2015 01:41 Goumindong wrote:
So e is now amazingly more responsive? Because I don't buy it. Are you really taking a philosophical nihilistic stand on darius's e cast time... No. I just don't believe that they would notice the difference in play. Everyone I have talked to besides these two have said that darius e feels slower and wonky and "not working right" and no one said anything like "oh yea the animation speed up made it feel a lot more responsive". I do not believe that they can notice the .075 second speed up on the animation more than they noticed the .325 second reduction in activation time or the net .25 second reduction in activation time after the patch. You physically can't do a bunch of things on over 100 ping (like ali q flashes.) 70ms difference on something makes a HUGE difference. I have 80ms more playing to na then euw, and I can't do half the plays I normally make over there even after several hours of getting used to it. Even a 40ms difference in a cast time is super noticeable, 75 is pretty huge. Your trying to make this some kind of philosophy debate when people have literally just tested it, it feels like trying to explain climate change or evolution to sceptics lol
Holy shit this post is so much cancer. I'm just gonna address the ali q part because it's easiest to debunk:
http://streamable.com/g072
http://streamable.com/ndg8
Doing combos has nothing to do with lag because whether combo comes out or not depends on only one thing - what was the delay between you using your first and second spell, that is whether you used it too early/late or just in time. And the delay doesn't change depending on ping because all your spells come out after the same server delay, so if you connected your keyboard to 2 pcs and one was playing on NA and one on EUW and you pressed the combo, the exact thing would come out, only on NA after 0.2 delay.
Before League players start buying monitors with sub-20ms lag and never play on wifi I deem complaining about lag a scrub thing to do.
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On August 27 2015 07:39 AlterKot wrote:
Before League players start buying monitors with sub-20ms lag and never play on wifi I deem complaining about lag a scrub thing to do.
Can you even buy a >20ms monitor anymore? Mine is 5 and it was cheap as shit when i bought it. The new gaming ones are 1ms
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We slavic people might tend to be technologically(not only) delayed.
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On August 27 2015 08:13 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 07:39 AlterKot wrote:
Before League players start buying monitors with sub-20ms lag and never play on wifi I deem complaining about lag a scrub thing to do. Can you even buy a >20ms monitor anymore? Mine is 5 and it was cheap as shit when i bought it. The new gaming ones are 1ms
Fear not, he is a skilled pyromaniac in the field of strawmen where he resides.
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On August 27 2015 08:09 krndandaman wrote:
while you are right you can 'physically' pull off these combos regardless off ping, ping makes it much harder to use these combos appropriately.
was I able to insec, ali combo, etc. with my 100 ping in a custom game? yeah easily.
was I able to do it reliably in game where people are moving around and dodging shit? not too much
is it easier now? hell yeah
Well yeah because in actual game you need to react to people and ping matters there, but saying that "you cant do a combo" is fucking bullshit.
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My ping used to be ~10-15. Now it is ~60. I do not notice a significant difference in how the game feels, and I don't think the server move will make me play any more or less frequently than it used to. If anything, I'm happier the playing field is more even now.
EDIT: Also I think the new HUD is way, way better than the old one. There, I said it.
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I managed to get executed twice in my jungle as Wukong. Granted, I started red side so no healing from smite, and I have ArPen marks instead of AD for typical builds.
Looks like his first clear is brutal either way and requires kiting, which I didn't do enough.
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armpen is probably about as good as AD and typically kiting is barely any reward now anyway
your mechanics might be bad, you have to tank with your clone as well
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Yeah that might be it. I checked skill orders and people were taking Q at level 2 (and W at 3 obviously), even on probuilds.net, so I did that and since I died on blue buff (so before I hit 3), including some kiting at max leash range and full use of both potions and smiting blue, it means I fucked up way before that.
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Smite gromp not blue. The dmg from gromp aura is huge and he does a lot of damage.
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Damn pulling the "calm down" card, now I feel told.
"Physically can't do stuff like" doesn't sound like "you can do it but it's harder in actual game" to me at all. Plus even that's bullshit, 100 ping is less than dota's built in delay (unless it got changed, last info I can find on that is from 2013).
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I understood it as you telling me what he really meant in his post, if that's not what it was then it's a misunderstanding on my part. I guess ping issue is a pet peeve of mine which is why I got invested in it a bit.
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On August 27 2015 11:09 AlterKot wrote:
Damn pulling the "calm down" card, now I feel told.
"Physically can't do stuff like" doesn't sound like "you can do it but it's harder in actual game" to me at all. Plus even that's bullshit, 100 ping is less than dota's built in delay (unless it got changed, last info I can find on that is from 2013).
You physically cannot insec, because a proper insec results in you W in less than 100 ms after your Q gets you into range of the target and you can't W until the server registers your ward.
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On August 27 2015 13:05 JimmiC wrote:
So it's fact Korea not better just lower ping
in case you are serious, i think that korea takes solo queue way more seriously than everywhere else and they have the infrastructure to develop new talent much more quickly than most other regions
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The massive playerbase probably helps a lot too.
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On August 27 2015 10:50 Goumindong wrote:
Smite gromp not blue. The dmg from gromp aura is huge and he does a lot of damage.
I'm not gonna smite gromp nor blue if I start red side.
I dunno what deals the most damage between gromp and blue though (and I'd have died all the same to gromp since no kiting).
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On August 27 2015 16:47 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 10:50 Goumindong wrote:
Smite gromp not blue. The dmg from gromp aura is huge and he does a lot of damage. I'm not gonna smite gromp nor blue if I start red side. I dunno what deals the most damage between gromp and blue though (and I'd have died all the same to gromp since no kiting).
Oh I thought you died doing your first buff. But yea krugs->red->blue ? Why not gromp then blue (or are you ganking immediately after blue? Why not gank after red if you're doing that?
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I prob should have tried in retrospect, they had Nasus and Orianna so our Irelia and Kennen swapped, prob could have burnt a bunch of Orianna's health and her flash. I don't recall jungling Wukong more than 2-3 times before that and it was a casual game with friends so I picked what was available on my smurf and winged it.
I went Krugs because we were the blue team, so I started the jungle on the red side with the duo lane.
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On August 27 2015 11:37 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 11:09 AlterKot wrote:
Damn pulling the "calm down" card, now I feel told.
"Physically can't do stuff like" doesn't sound like "you can do it but it's harder in actual game" to me at all. Plus even that's bullshit, 100 ping is less than dota's built in delay (unless it got changed, last info I can find on that is from 2013). You physically cannot insec, because a proper insec results in you W in less than 100 ms after your Q gets you into range of the target and you can't W until the server registers your ward.
So I actually tried to and couldn't do it, guess ping won this round.
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On August 27 2015 17:41 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 16:47 Alaric wrote:On August 27 2015 10:50 Goumindong wrote:
Smite gromp not blue. The dmg from gromp aura is huge and he does a lot of damage. I'm not gonna smite gromp nor blue if I start red side. I dunno what deals the most damage between gromp and blue though (and I'd have died all the same to gromp since no kiting). Oh I thought you died doing your first buff. But yea krugs->red->blue ? Why not gromp then blue (or are you ganking immediately after blue? Why not gank after red if you're doing that?
Doesn't smiting gromp vs blue depend largely on what kind of leash you get on gromp?
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On August 27 2015 22:45 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2015 17:41 Goumindong wrote:On August 27 2015 16:47 Alaric wrote:On August 27 2015 10:50 Goumindong wrote:
Smite gromp not blue. The dmg from gromp aura is huge and he does a lot of damage. I'm not gonna smite gromp nor blue if I start red side. I dunno what deals the most damage between gromp and blue though (and I'd have died all the same to gromp since no kiting). Oh I thought you died doing your first buff. But yea krugs->red->blue ? Why not gromp then blue (or are you ganking immediately after blue? Why not gank after red if you're doing that? Doesn't smiting gromp vs blue depend largely on what kind of leash you get on gromp?
No, you just always smite gromp. The damage gain from smiting gromp means you finish your buffs faster which makes you healthier.
Someone did the math on this about 6 threads ago.
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I think Smiting Gromp gives you 13 damage over 3 seconds. It's not overwhelmingly powerful, but still better than Smiting Blue which gives you very little
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an alternate route ive been testing if your playing a good scuttler killing champion from that path
no smite gromp/blue then go down and smite the dragon scuttler, then return back to wolves like normal and finish the jungle. Pretty good I like it since its flexible.
You can also gank mid after scuttler if possible.
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On August 28 2015 01:42 VayneAuthority wrote:
an alternate route ive been testing if your playing a good scuttler killing champion from that path
no smite gromp/blue then go down and smite the dragon scuttler, then return back to wolves like normal and finish the jungle. Pretty good I like it since its flexible.
You can also gank mid after scuttler if possible.
a lot of people actually do this in soloq.2 camps(sometimes 3)>scutler>w/e right?
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On August 28 2015 01:11 Sufficiency wrote:
I think Smiting Gromp gives you 13 damage over 3 seconds. It's not overwhelmingly powerful, but still better than Smiting Blue which gives you very little
The only benefit to smiting blue is getting mana. But you're getting blue so you're going to get mana anyway. The only practical excuse for smiting blue without being pressured is if you're effectively oom and have spells off cd while taking it so you can clear it faster.
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2 camps+scuttler gives level 3? I know that 3 camps+scuttler doesn't give 4 (4 camps+scuttler does though).
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On August 28 2015 02:18 Alaric wrote:
2 camps+scuttler gives level 3? I know that 3 camps+scuttler doesn't give 4 (4 camps+scuttler does though).
I believe so, but can't check right now.
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yea its definitely a devourer path where you are favoring gold and information for your laners over ganking/levels.
scuttler is the last neutral that has no timers so having control of them is very important for devourer junglers
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How is Kennen currently? His winrate seems pretty high, but he's always seemed kinda hit or miss in metas.
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On August 28 2015 03:51 Requizen wrote:
How is Kennen currently? His winrate seems pretty high, but he's always seemed kinda hit or miss in metas.
The AP itemization changes few patches back worked really in his favor, but no pro play and no direct changes to him mean his popularity is unchanged, while Kennen specialists can use his current strength very well.
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On August 28 2015 06:54 AlterKot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 03:51 Requizen wrote:
How is Kennen currently? His winrate seems pretty high, but he's always seemed kinda hit or miss in metas. The AP itemization changes few patches back worked really in his favor, but no pro play and no direct changes to him mean his popularity is unchanged, while Kennen specialists can use his current strength very well.
The champion.gg shows his items basically haven't changed (Zhonya's/Rylai/Hat as big cores), did those items go through some updates lately?
Forgive me for being behind -.-
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Rylai's is now amazing because it's at the same 100AP tier as Zhonya's/Luden's. And NLR is now 1250 and 60AP instead of being so expensive. So, the buildup to Zhonya's is a lot easier, and you're not losing any AP by going Rylai's anymore.
Liandry's is also a legit choice on him now as well, since it's 80AP instead of 50.
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Yes, I don't remember how many patches ago it was but literally every AP item got changed in some way.
Also Luden's and Liandry's are super good on him, better than than Hat imo but I guess it doesn't matter that much.
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rylai's slow buffed for AOE spells and now has 100ap, zhonya's ap nerfed down to 100ap but is cheaper, Deathcap more expensive but 5% more to the AP multiplier.
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On August 28 2015 06:57 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 06:54 AlterKot wrote:On August 28 2015 03:51 Requizen wrote:
How is Kennen currently? His winrate seems pretty high, but he's always seemed kinda hit or miss in metas. The AP itemization changes few patches back worked really in his favor, but no pro play and no direct changes to him mean his popularity is unchanged, while Kennen specialists can use his current strength very well. The champion.gg shows his items basically haven't changed (Zhonya's/Rylai/Hat as big cores), did those items go through some updates lately? Forgive me for being behind -.-
Rylais is now an NLR item and NLR is now 1250 gold for 60 AP. Cap needs a book in addition to its old recipie. Zhonya and echo are down to 100 AP and cheaper. Cap has a higher %AP multiplier.
RoA now gives less HP and more mana and less HP and stacks twice as hard up to 100 AP. Archangel now gives more AP.
Liandrys, void, and I think abyssal now give 80 AP
Edit: Rylai's always had 100 AP it just built from blasting instead of NLR
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Wow, those are pretty interesting changes! I guess those would also help out Vlad for the same reasons. I like my tanky mages <3
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Most interesting and not utilized yet is that AA staff and ROA entered the "highest AP" in the game item for anyone who has mana.
Assuming you have 1000 base mana AA staff now adds 117.5 AP at zero tear charges and 140 AP at full.
If we count the bonus AP from RoAs mana towards RoAs AP gain then RoA grants 124 AP when fully stacked.
If you're Viktor and manage to make it to level 18 with RoA, Cap, AA staff, and perfect Hex core with full offensive masteries, AP quints and scaling blues (because why not), and at least 1 dragon buff you will have 974 AP. Void and a pot 1154
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6 scaling blues + 3 scaling cdr is THE standart right now
although with shit like roa lulu starting to see play soon 9x scaling cdr might come pretty close
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On August 28 2015 06:54 AlterKot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2015 03:51 Requizen wrote:
How is Kennen currently? His winrate seems pretty high, but he's always seemed kinda hit or miss in metas. The AP itemization changes few patches back worked really in his favor, but no pro play and no direct changes to him mean his popularity is unchanged, while Kennen specialists can use his current strength very well.
Incorrect, he's just played at support at the pro level most of the time. He's not meta, but he is a fringe pick. http://lol.esportspedia.com/wiki/Kennen/Match_History
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It was meant to be a hyperbole, but I only remembered Gorrilla's games so I guess I was wrong either way.
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On August 28 2015 07:47 nafta wrote:
6 scaling blues + 3 scaling cdr is THE standart right now
although with shit like roa lulu starting to see play soon 9x scaling cdr might come pretty close
Oh yea, i just put them in there because "lol high numbers" not because its the best build or masteries or anything.
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Semi-whine but damn riot say they have fixed bugs so often and they just keep happening.Why say you have fixed it when you clearly haven't :/
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So Darius jungle yes/no? He doesn't seem much different than previously in terms of jungling, except that his Q is slightly different in that it gets all AD instead of just bonus. E is better for ganking now (faster and has a slow), so perhaps better overall? Still probably gets pooped on in his first clear.
Anyone tried it or played with/against it?
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I tried doing wraiths to hit level 2 then TP top. It took horribly freakingly long, and I almost died to them.
You'd think he's got AoE and his DoT, but even hitting 2-3 Qs I took more damage and was slower than when I do it with Jax. Not convinced at all.
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Darius early damage got nerfed fairly hard and this was the only thing that made him kind of acceptable in the jungle - his clear was all right. Now most likely he lost even that, so outside of top I don't think he can play anything else without being 110% troll. Maybe a support
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Good to know, glad I didn't try it!
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His Q should actually be better against monsters because they're affected by the blade now. He takes a billion damage clearing though.
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On August 28 2015 23:52 M2 wrote:
Darius early damage got nerfed fairly hard and this was the only thing that made him kind of acceptable in the jungle - his clear was all right. Now most likely he lost even that, so outside of top I don't think he can play anything else without being 110% troll. Maybe a support
Given that he gets so much free AD when he hits his passive and wants to build tank; him as a support might work.
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I tried Darius jungle. It's bad for the reasons stated above, but adding to that is that Darius really wants to be tanky but gets 0 tankiness from his kit (with the exception of the heal on Q I guess)... which means he's actually kind of hungry for money. He needs more items to function then something like j4, and it can be hard to get money as a slowish jungler with bad ganks.
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The thing about darius that seems really weird to me now is that his kit does not synergize with itself anymore.
Previously you still got bleed stacks for hitting the hilt. So if you E'd someone and got them close you weren't penalized so much for hitting your combo. But now with no bleed and no heal and only half the damage on the hilt. You E someone and they're in the wrong spot to do max damage with the rest of your kit. It just seems weird.
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On August 29 2015 02:50 Goumindong wrote:
The thing about darius that seems really weird to me now is that his kit does not synergize with itself anymore.
Previously you still got bleed stacks for hitting the hilt. So if you E'd someone and got them close you weren't penalized so much for hitting your combo. But now with no bleed and no heal and only half the damage on the hilt. You E someone and they're in the wrong spot to do max damage with the rest of your kit. It just seems weird.
I never liked that whole damage zone mechanic for his Q even if it makes logical sense. Most folks hooked people in before doing the Q and as you say, they are already in the hilt range instead of the blade range.
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On August 29 2015 02:50 Goumindong wrote:
The thing about darius that seems really weird to me now is that his kit does not synergize with itself anymore.
Previously you still got bleed stacks for hitting the hilt. So if you E'd someone and got them close you weren't penalized so much for hitting your combo. But now with no bleed and no heal and only half the damage on the hilt. You E someone and they're in the wrong spot to do max damage with the rest of your kit. It just seems weird.
You just don't Q right after the E. It sucks that it reduced your options a bit, but it's not like they removed some major mechanic.
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And you can now AA while still having people in blade range unless they move into you. You can E/W/Q and hit them with the blade most of the time.
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On August 29 2015 03:57 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2015 02:50 Goumindong wrote:
The thing about darius that seems really weird to me now is that his kit does not synergize with itself anymore.
Previously you still got bleed stacks for hitting the hilt. So if you E'd someone and got them close you weren't penalized so much for hitting your combo. But now with no bleed and no heal and only half the damage on the hilt. You E someone and they're in the wrong spot to do max damage with the rest of your kit. It just seems weird. You just don't Q right after the E. It sucks that it reduced your options a bit, but it's not like they removed some major mechanic.
I know that isn't how you play it. I just think that its funky that the kit is designed to not work well with itself in that way.
Edit: is there like some sort of etiquette wrt letting people k is about blogs they might be interested in? I made a post in a blog but it's clearly too long to dump in here
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i am not a fan of this patch so far, all the new stuff seem really annoying to play against. Maybe I just need to learn kalista or something
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On August 29 2015 11:22 Nos- wrote:
i am not a fan of this patch so far, all the new stuff seem really annoying to play against. Maybe I just need to learn kalista or something
Ban it all.
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On August 29 2015 11:43 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2015 11:22 Nos- wrote:
i am not a fan of this patch so far, all the new stuff seem really annoying to play against. Maybe I just need to learn kalista or something Ban it all.
Is this super-Dota? do I get 8 bans?
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quick question, just played viktor against azir and felt it was a really hard lane. His Q-auto does a lot more damage than my laser and it's from a much longer range. Anyone have tips for the match up?
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On August 29 2015 12:34 Nos- wrote:
quick question, just played viktor against azir and felt it was a really hard lane. His Q-auto does a lot more damage than my laser and it's from a much longer range. Anyone have tips for the match up?
Before you have your augment its a tough lane; he can shove you in and harasses better. This is even how the matchup goes in professional games so don't worry about that. Farm until you have it and then immediatly b. Once you have your augment you can hard clear the wave decently well even with the nerfs. If you're doing well you can delay until you have double Dorans and the augment but augment is key.
Once you have the augment you can push him in. Ideally clear the wave before he puts up soldiers while your minions haven't bunched up yet. This will make it impossible for him to hard clear the wave and will keep him under turret; the minions will walk past his soldiers when he tries to kill them. Use the time to roam/farm wraiths etc. Your goal is to keep him in mid lane while you provide pressure. The best way to provide pressure is with your jungler. This is because you're Viktor and you need someone in front of you but also because it means that running into their jungler doesnt counter your pressure. So if your jungler is on your side of the map and doesn't seem to be ganking, take a camp on the other side of the jungle. If your jungler is moving toward their side of the map support him.
When you move into the objective control portion of the game is when your advantages shine. this works better in competitive because your team knows what is happening but the idea is that you can move forward/back and force him to reposition his soldiers and move into your lasers. Focus on objectives and force him and his team to come into you. This makes your lasers a lot easier to hit and reduces his abitiy to set up soldiers.
Do not force fights into him. It's like playing the mirror matchup or playing against Ori. The leash range on soldiers is longer than the cast range so if you're walking into him your effective range is diminishing and his effective range is increasing. . If he ever comes into you laser down his move path and ult him. He will explode.
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Excuse me for my ignorance, but the hot fix patch (not patch 5.17, but patch 5.16 hotfix) hasn't hit yet has it?
Old Darius was much easier to jungle (at least early on) than the new kit. Old Darius I could do a 6 camp clear if I optimized my runes and masteries a little bit. With the new Darius I just get smashed early on in the jungle.
Also with the whole Darius E'ing and then Q'ing, that was pretty standard for me if I was up against a melee. However it wasn't unheard of me holding on to my Q for just until they escape me, and then I'd hit them with that last Q (with the blade) to get that extra damage. With New Darius I feel like they really reward you with keeping your opponents in that 'sweet spot' (I.E. in the blade range of Q) which I really like. I always felt like you kited with Old Darius (against melee match ups) and with New Darius you do the same thing, it's just there is much more gain for doing it properly and you get punished harder for doing it incorrectly.
Having that slow on the apprehend makes it really easy to put opponents into that 'sweet spot' as a 90% slow is crazy!
I really, REALLY like the new Darius changes, but I could understand if one gets rubbed the wrong way by them.
Also I think the biggest reason why Darius jungle isn't as good anymore is because of the W change. Getting one second cooldown per hemorrhage stack made Gromp a chump.
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Goodness Voli is just so good. I haven't lost a game with him yet since coming back. I don't think Amumu either.
When did this game start being fun again and not just a frustrating pit of team hatred?
On topic, I tried Amumu with Runeglaive Chilling and blew up quite easily early on. Not as reliably healthy as with Purple Cinderhulk :\
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Darius Jungle always had shitty sustain but now that his Q doesn't let you autoattack while it's charging it's like your dps drops while casting it against single targets. His ganks were reliant on being able to hit E so if you could get in range to do a good range E before your opponent used a dash and flash, he had decent ganks.
I think it's playable but probably not good.
On August 29 2015 14:20 Requizen wrote:
Goodness Voli is just so good. I haven't lost a game with him yet since coming back. I don't think Amumu either.
When did this game start being fun again and not just a frustrating pit of team hatred?
On topic, I tried Amumu with Runeglaive Chilling and blew up quite easily early on. Not as reliably healthy as with Purple Cinderhulk :\
If you want to lose a game and have some fun, try sated devourer Voli. 50% more damage on his ulti from just the phantom hit :D.
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On August 29 2015 11:22 Nos- wrote:
i am not a fan of this patch so far, all the new stuff seem really annoying to play against. Maybe I just need to learn kalista or something
LOL meanwhile me and martenv and such are like
"garen fiora darius bans"
"what a time to be alive"
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On that note it's pretty hard to main GP when he's permabanned.
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#summer2011problems for me and Morgana. It lasted around 6 months.
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On August 29 2015 11:22 Nos- wrote:
i am not a fan of this patch so far, all the new stuff seem really annoying to play against. Maybe I just need to learn kalista or something
This patch is fucking amazing. Ban Kalista, ban Vayne, ban Gnar. Nothing but dumb bricks smashing into eachother. It's glorious.
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On the one hand I don't like the direction League is taking with these last few patches, but on the other hand they buffed all my champs :D
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I'm having fun
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Ive poured all my hate on patches 5.13-5.15, now im just numb.
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Im just a dirty Fiora picker. I still don't get the vital mechanic but just Qing around and avoiding all damage with W is fun.
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Wait what. Are you serious? Surely not. That just seems like so unnecessarily complex.
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It used to be just flat growth per level and then Riot changed that in patch 4.20 for reasons. I think supposedly to make early level advantages not as important?
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Yeah, they said "you shouldn't be able to just all-in a guy because you pushed a bit to level up first and have so much more stats. You got one more point into an ability that's enough".
So the stat gains are backloaded toward level 14 or something I think?
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On August 30 2015 00:07 Alaric wrote:
Yeah, they said "you shouldn't be able to just all-in a guy because you pushed a bit to level up first and have so much more stats. You got one more point into an ability that's enough".
So the stat gains are backloaded toward level 14 or something I think?
I think it was roughly 70%ish through 6, 100%ish through 12, and 130%ish through 18
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So I'm watching c9 vs gravity. For two games in a row now gravity has had TWICE as many kills AND a cs lead, even on towers but with first baron going to gravity... And somehow c9 is less than 2k gold behind. How is that possible?
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The land of freedom23126 Posts
On August 30 2015 05:47 Osmoses wrote:
So I'm watching c9 vs gravity. For two games in a row now gravity has had TWICE as many kills AND a cs lead, even on towers but with first baron going to gravity... And somehow c9 is less than 2k gold behind. How is that possible?
Jungle and avarice blade.
Plus a lot of those kills with 2+ assists so not really a lot of money there.
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Jungle and avarice cant account for thousands, big spread on assists is the only semi-plausible explanation.
7 kills vs 14, cs lead of about 100 and baron. That should be 4-5k at least, the fact that c9 can be losing so convincingly and still barely be behind seems broken to me :p
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The kills become less gold the worse a player is doing and more the better you do, not to mention gold bonus for ending streaks. GP/10's and the face of the mountain path can add a k of gold here and there.
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With all the IP farming I'm sure it'll be quite some time before we see another bonus IP weekend.
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They're few and far between already, last one was what, 3 months ago?
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The fact that people are willing to int feed an entire day just to get ip is a pretty good example of why a lot of people think ip gain is too low.
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Of course it's too slow. It takes, like, 5000 games to purchase everything with IP. One full runepage takes something like 15500 IP, which is something like 150 wins and that's a page with only 400IP reds, yellows, blues and three 1500IP quints. Even just to buy one quint. If a game averages half an hour to gain 100IP. Which it doesn't it takes longer with queue, champ select, and load times. It'll take you 7 hours to get one quint. 21 hours to hear 3 quints.
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I'm reasonably sure they'd do that no matter how quickly you got IP unless IP was trivial. If there's any argument for IP gain being low, this probably isn't it. I'd go after say... runepages, or how long it takes them to lower champion prices, how garbage boosts are. Really the rune system in general, actually. Fuck the rune system.
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just don't waste your IP on unnecessary runes and fotm characters. also play more in general.
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I have been playing since season 1 and I don't have all champs or 20 rune pages or all runes.Dunno how can you say there isn't a problem lol.
And I bought rune pages only in the 2 for 1 deals(except 1).
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On August 30 2015 08:47 nafta wrote:
I have been playing since season 1 and I don't have all champs or 20 rune pages or all runes.Dunno how can you say there isn't a problem lol.
And I bought rune pages only in the 2 for 1 deals(except 1).
it's not a problem because you don't need to own 20 rune pages, all the runes or all the champions to be successful at this game. having all of the above allows you flexibility when playing but does not hinder your performance. i think it's totally reasonable for the oldest players or the people that have the most time to sink to have the most flexibility.
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On August 30 2015 07:48 nafta wrote:
The fact that people are willing to int feed an entire day just to get ip is a pretty good example of why a lot of people think ip gain is too low.
Gotta love how people bitch about the free wins too
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On August 30 2015 10:55 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 07:48 nafta wrote:
The fact that people are willing to int feed an entire day just to get ip is a pretty good example of why a lot of people think ip gain is too low. Gotta love how people bitch about the free wins too
To be fair, if I was playing normals to get a champ up to snuff for ranked, it'd be a giant waste of my time.
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On August 30 2015 11:15 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 10:55 101toss wrote:On August 30 2015 07:48 nafta wrote:
The fact that people are willing to int feed an entire day just to get ip is a pretty good example of why a lot of people think ip gain is too low. Gotta love how people bitch about the free wins too To be fair, if I was playing normals to get a champ up to snuff for ranked, it'd be a giant waste of my time.
that's why you learn new champions in ranked
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On August 30 2015 12:54 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 11:15 Gahlo wrote:On August 30 2015 10:55 101toss wrote:On August 30 2015 07:48 nafta wrote:
The fact that people are willing to int feed an entire day just to get ip is a pretty good example of why a lot of people think ip gain is too low. Gotta love how people bitch about the free wins too To be fair, if I was playing normals to get a champ up to snuff for ranked, it'd be a giant waste of my time. that's why you learn new champions in ranked
I'll do that if I hit gold.
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On August 30 2015 11:15 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 10:55 101toss wrote:On August 30 2015 07:48 nafta wrote:
The fact that people are willing to int feed an entire day just to get ip is a pretty good example of why a lot of people think ip gain is too low. Gotta love how people bitch about the free wins too To be fair, if I was playing normals to get a champ up to snuff for ranked, it'd be a giant waste of my time.
It's hardly a "giant waste", it takes 7-15min. There's always teambuilder or normal draft too
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I heard there was some advantage to playing in teams this weekend for IP? Where do they describe this change?
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On August 30 2015 14:04 obesechicken13 wrote:
I heard there was some advantage to playing in teams this weekend for IP? Where do they describe this change?
http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/help-support/E5sEgLFp-test-the-servers-with-party-ip
I've been doing the baserace thing where we all just push one lane and we lose at around 20 minutes. I've been doing different takes on it to see if we can actually win the game. We can usually take a bunch of towers early, but can't keep the momentum going. I blame my teammates.
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On August 30 2015 13:34 Zeroxk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 11:15 Gahlo wrote:On August 30 2015 10:55 101toss wrote:On August 30 2015 07:48 nafta wrote:
The fact that people are willing to int feed an entire day just to get ip is a pretty good example of why a lot of people think ip gain is too low. Gotta love how people bitch about the free wins too To be fair, if I was playing normals to get a champ up to snuff for ranked, it'd be a giant waste of my time. It's hardly a "giant waste", it takes 7-15min. There's always teambuilder or normal draft too
+ p/b phase, which is roughly another 10 mins at least.
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On August 30 2015 07:48 nafta wrote:
The fact that people are willing to int feed an entire day just to get ip is a pretty good example of why a lot of people think ip gain is too low.
I agree it is too low. But even if it was not, people would still do what gets them most ip. It is simply an oversight by Riot.
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Only assuming you have fun int feeding to lose the game asap, otherwise youre just sacrificing your day so that you can buy champs/runes to have fun in the future because you can't reasonably achieve that by playing normally.
Im also s1 player with around 50% runes, 15 pages and still 30 champs to buy.
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On August 30 2015 10:55 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 07:48 nafta wrote:
The fact that people are willing to int feed an entire day just to get ip is a pretty good example of why a lot of people think ip gain is too low. Gotta love how people bitch about the free wins too
Why? I hate free wins just as much as free losses, I don't really learn anything from them
Free loses might even be better because you can fight against sick odds and try to get some kills
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I have no life . playing since s2 got all champs and 20 pages, still 99k IP left
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On August 30 2015 14:12 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On August 30 2015 14:04 obesechicken13 wrote:
I heard there was some advantage to playing in teams this weekend for IP? Where do they describe this change? http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/help-support/E5sEgLFp-test-the-servers-with-party-ipI've been doing the baserace thing where we all just push one lane and we lose at around 20 minutes. I've been doing different takes on it to see if we can actually win the game. We can usually take a bunch of towers early, but can't keep the momentum going. I blame my teammates.
Thanks.
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Poll: 3rd supportBraum (7) 44% Nami (5) 31% Leona (4) 25% 16 total votes Your vote: 3rd support (Vote): Leona
(Vote): Nami
(Vote): Braum
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On August 31 2015 00:46 JimmiC wrote:
I voted thinking you meant who is the third best support? but who are the first 2?
Just looking for a 3rd support after Janna and Naut. Can't decide between the 3.
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Braum if you want the 'best' support of the three right now. Leona if you're yolo. Mermaid if you want the most fun :>
If you've got Janna/Naut, Leona fills the most playstyle holes.
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I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though.
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On August 31 2015 01:00 Caiada wrote:
Braum if you want the 'best' support of the three right now. Leona if you're yolo. Mermaid if you want the most fun :>
If you've got Janna/Naut, Leona fills the most playstyle holes.
if you're looking to play a support with an alternative playstyle to those two i think someone that provides poke/harassment in lane like Zyra/Velkoz/Lulu would be more appropriate.
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On August 31 2015 01:35 chalice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 01:00 Caiada wrote:
Braum if you want the 'best' support of the three right now. Leona if you're yolo. Mermaid if you want the most fun :>
If you've got Janna/Naut, Leona fills the most playstyle holes. if you're looking to play a support with an alternative playstyle to those two i think someone that provides poke/harassment in lane like Zyra/Velkoz/Lulu would be more appropriate.
That's true. The way I've always seen it is Poke>Disengage>Hard Engage>Sustain>Poke. Nami basically has it all.
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Alright, now you turd nuggets are evening up the votes on purpose..
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United States37500 Posts
Nami imo. Braum > Leona, they share a similar niche.
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United States11393 Posts
On August 31 2015 02:22 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 01:35 chalice wrote:On August 31 2015 01:00 Caiada wrote:
Braum if you want the 'best' support of the three right now. Leona if you're yolo. Mermaid if you want the most fun :>
If you've got Janna/Naut, Leona fills the most playstyle holes. if you're looking to play a support with an alternative playstyle to those two i think someone that provides poke/harassment in lane like Zyra/Velkoz/Lulu would be more appropriate. That's true. The way I've always seen it is Poke>Disengage>Hard Engage>Sustain>Poke. Nami basically has it all.
Until you run into Yasuo Braum and cry as every ult is blocked
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On August 31 2015 06:36 NeoIllusions wrote:
Nami imo. Braum > Leona, they share a similar niche.
Hardly. Leona is a hard engage diving support while Braum is a anti poke and anti diving defensive peeling support.
Braum can work offensively sometimes by Wing onto a frontliner and Qing his target and blocking damage on him with E but that functions as peeling for a "carry" bruiser most of the time.
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On August 31 2015 00:49 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 00:46 JimmiC wrote:
I voted thinking you meant who is the third best support? but who are the first 2? Just looking for a 3rd support after Janna and Naut. Can't decide between the 3.
Don't you kinda need Blitz support to help Morde get in range? Although I guess Naut has more CC to help there, and same with Thresh.
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On August 31 2015 10:32 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 00:49 Gahlo wrote:On August 31 2015 00:46 JimmiC wrote:
I voted thinking you meant who is the third best support? but who are the first 2? Just looking for a 3rd support after Janna and Naut. Can't decide between the 3. Don't you kinda need Blitz support to help Morde get in range? Although I guess Naut has more CC to help there, and same with Thresh.
That's cute. You think he's a) unbanned or b) people play him bot lane where I'm at.
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I don't know what to think about the ip system, somehow I understand why riot does it, they need to make us pay but cannot do it as an ultimatum: if you don't pay you don't play, it has to be "willingly". On the other hand I play the game for 3 years now, I cannot say I play a lot, but like 4-500 rank games per season and maybe another 100 normals, not anything special, but I don't think its nothing. Still I have like 13 rune pages and 60 champs, most of them cheap ones. So how much more I have to play to get all? I guess another 3 years at least, is this ok? you tell me
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braum hands down...leona is the same diver like naut and nami is a bad janna. Braum fills a completely different niche then both
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Riot's system is both amazing and frustrating. if you are the kind of person that needs a lot of variety and options in your life, you will probably have to pay a bit for this game. For people like me that just have like 5-7 champs they enjoy playing and thats it, its really easy to not spend any money on this game.
I go through all the champions probably once a week and look at all of them and im just like "I dont want to play any of these.."
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i don't think the game is designed around individuals having or being capable of playing every existing character atm.
if you have 5 people on your team i think riot only expects you to have 1/5 of the characters with probably mid players having the widest pool.
even then the time it takes to be proficient with every character exceeds the time it takes to farm them.
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I could look through the shop and point out about 50 champs I'll never give a shit about not being able to play.
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On August 31 2015 22:41 VayneAuthority wrote:
Riot's system is both amazing and frustrating. if you are the kind of person that needs a lot of variety and options in your life, you will probably have to pay a bit for this game. For people like me that just have like 5-7 champs they enjoy playing and thats it, its really easy to not spend any money on this game.
I go through all the champions probably once a week and look at all of them and im just like "I dont want to play any of these.."
There's free rotations if you want to play something different you know
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On August 31 2015 22:41 VayneAuthority wrote:
Riot's system is both amazing and frustrating. if you are the kind of person that needs a lot of variety and options in your life, you will probably have to pay a bit for this game. For people like me that just have like 5-7 champs they enjoy playing and thats it, its really easy to not spend any money on this game.
I go through all the champions probably once a week and look at all of them and im just like "I dont want to play any of these.."
Yeah, I feel about the same way. Even though I have a compulsion to catch therm all.
One thing to remember about 60 dollar releases is how those games are meant to only be played for 10-60 hours. Leaning more towards the 10-20 hours for modern games. LoL easily beats that play time. It takes over 100 hours just to get to level 30. I personally feel a dollar an hour for entertainment is typically a fair price. So no matter how I cut it, LoL is an extremely efficient deal.
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On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though.
I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair.
Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy).
Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On August 31 2015 22:36 krndandaman wrote:
Paying is fine. But as someone who HAS spent ~$40 on non-skin things (Champ/Rune pages/ip boosts) AND put in a lot of game time (4 years and probably around ~4k games both normal/ranked) I think it's sad that I'm still missing 20+ champions, niche runes, and 2 more runepages.
IMO if you shell out enough money for an average video game ($60?) you should be able to unlock everything within 2-3 years, but the current system does not work like this.
I kind of sympathize, but also kind of don't, because you're admitting that you pay about $0.01 per game of League of Legends yet sad that you can't get Energy Regen per level Quints or something. If this game wasn't fun without all the unlocks, people wouldn't be playing it.
Personally I enjoy League plenty much without having to play Quinn. And if I ever get to the point where I'm sick of playing any of the other 100+ champs, I'd probably have enough IP to buy her.
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On August 31 2015 23:54 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 22:41 VayneAuthority wrote:
Riot's system is both amazing and frustrating. if you are the kind of person that needs a lot of variety and options in your life, you will probably have to pay a bit for this game. For people like me that just have like 5-7 champs they enjoy playing and thats it, its really easy to not spend any money on this game.
I go through all the champions probably once a week and look at all of them and im just like "I dont want to play any of these.." Yeah, I feel about the same way. Even though I have a compulsion to catch therm all. One thing to remember about 60 dollar releases is how those games are meant to only be played for 10-60 hours. Leaning more towards the 10-20 hours for modern games. LoL easily beats that play time. It takes over 100 hours just to get to level 30. I personally feel a dollar an hour for entertainment is typically a fair price. So no matter how I cut it, LoL is an extremely efficient deal.
I wasn't aware league of legends is a single player game.
Honestly if riot added captain mode for picks a lot of my problems with the champion costs would be removed. Or at least let you pick champs you don't own so you can trade.
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On August 31 2015 23:23 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 22:41 VayneAuthority wrote:
Riot's system is both amazing and frustrating. if you are the kind of person that needs a lot of variety and options in your life, you will probably have to pay a bit for this game. For people like me that just have like 5-7 champs they enjoy playing and thats it, its really easy to not spend any money on this game.
I go through all the champions probably once a week and look at all of them and im just like "I dont want to play any of these.." There's free rotations if you want to play something different you know
forgot that is a thing, havent played a normal game in years
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Come on man in s1/2 you could play the free champs in ranked :D.
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On September 01 2015 00:29 nafta wrote:
Come on man in s1/2 you could play the free champs in ranked :D.
yea and im the kind of player that got it taken away. Whenever I was on tilt I would always spam free rotation champs LOL
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On August 31 2015 23:54 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though. I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair. Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy). Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running.
Those are fair points to make. Are you sure Valve loses money on Dota 2? I read an article where Dota 2 makes -more- money per user than LoL.
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On September 01 2015 00:47 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2015 23:54 Sufficiency wrote:On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though. I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair. Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy). Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running. Those are fair points to make. Are you sure Valve loses money on Dota 2? I read an article where Dota 2 makes -more- money per user than LoL.
Revenue per user is probably not the representative figure since it does not factor in the overheads which are independent of the servers. Also there are far fewer dota2 players.
My point is that profitability from dota2 is probably not Valve's top priority since its a Steam exclusive and the game by itself can be seen as marketing cost for Valve.
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Did they fix the bug where you could kill blue buff without taking damage for ranged heroes?
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On September 01 2015 01:27 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 00:47 Sonnington wrote:On August 31 2015 23:54 Sufficiency wrote:On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though. I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair. Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy). Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running. Those are fair points to make. Are you sure Valve loses money on Dota 2? I read an article where Dota 2 makes -more- money per user than LoL. Revenue per user is probably not the representative figure since it does not factor in the overheads which are independent of the servers. Also there are far fewer dota2 players. My point is that profitability from dota2 is probably not Valve's top priority since its a Steam exclusive and the game by itself can be seen as marketing cost for Valve.
Those are all fair points to make, but they're coming off as counter points to Dota 2 having a better monitezation plan to LoL. I don't really think a large factor of boosting the revenue per user can be attributed to Valve spending more money on their engine and bug testing. I don't think that encourages players to buy accessories to make their Queen of Pain sexier or their Axe more badass looking.
@Ansibled
Yes they fixed it.
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On September 01 2015 02:26 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 01:27 Sufficiency wrote:On September 01 2015 00:47 Sonnington wrote:On August 31 2015 23:54 Sufficiency wrote:On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though. I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair. Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy). Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running. Those are fair points to make. Are you sure Valve loses money on Dota 2? I read an article where Dota 2 makes -more- money per user than LoL. Revenue per user is probably not the representative figure since it does not factor in the overheads which are independent of the servers. Also there are far fewer dota2 players. My point is that profitability from dota2 is probably not Valve's top priority since its a Steam exclusive and the game by itself can be seen as marketing cost for Valve. Those are all fair points to make, but they're coming off as counter points to Dota 2 having a better monitezation plan to LoL. I don't really think a large factor of boosting the revenue per user can be attributed to Valve spending more money on their engine and bug testing. I don't think that encourages players to buy accessories to make their Queen of Pain sexier or their Axe more badass looking. @Ansibled Yes they fixed it.
Well, yeah, a guy from EA came out publicly and said that Riot could be making a fuckton more off of their players and Riot basically shrugged and said "Yeah, but that's not the point." They still made $1billion+ last year. The more oppressive the monetization becomes in League the more likely players are to leave for games that have more free stuff.
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pretty much. it took companies a long time to realize that the 99%/1% dichotomy is insanely profitable if you have a massive playerbase because then that 1% isnt insignificant.
referring to the thing where 99% of people will pay nothing or an average amount of money...and then a 1% will spend an insane amount of money on your game when there is no cap on it like a monthly subscription or just straight up buying a game for like 60 dollars.
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Baa?21244 Posts
On September 01 2015 03:02 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 02:26 Sonnington wrote:On September 01 2015 01:27 Sufficiency wrote:On September 01 2015 00:47 Sonnington wrote:On August 31 2015 23:54 Sufficiency wrote:On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though. I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair. Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy). Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running. Those are fair points to make. Are you sure Valve loses money on Dota 2? I read an article where Dota 2 makes -more- money per user than LoL. Revenue per user is probably not the representative figure since it does not factor in the overheads which are independent of the servers. Also there are far fewer dota2 players. My point is that profitability from dota2 is probably not Valve's top priority since its a Steam exclusive and the game by itself can be seen as marketing cost for Valve. Those are all fair points to make, but they're coming off as counter points to Dota 2 having a better monitezation plan to LoL. I don't really think a large factor of boosting the revenue per user can be attributed to Valve spending more money on their engine and bug testing. I don't think that encourages players to buy accessories to make their Queen of Pain sexier or their Axe more badass looking. @Ansibled Yes they fixed it. Well, yeah, a guy from EA came out publicly and said that Riot could be making a fuckton more off of their players and Riot basically shrugged and said "Yeah, but that's not the point." They still made $1billion+ last year. The more oppressive the monetization becomes in League the more likely players are to leave for games that have more free stuff.
No Riot made over $1 billion in revenue last year (by a third party estimate which may or may not be accurate), which means actual profits were probably a low double digit percentage of that at best.
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Yea people always completely ignore that even the players who don't pay anything still bring value cuz the bigger population number attracts even more people to play it.
I still don't get why riot hasn't added the betting+drops from csgo. That shit is the main reason csgo arguably the biggest esport in the west.
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On September 01 2015 03:09 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 03:02 Gahlo wrote:On September 01 2015 02:26 Sonnington wrote:On September 01 2015 01:27 Sufficiency wrote:On September 01 2015 00:47 Sonnington wrote:On August 31 2015 23:54 Sufficiency wrote:On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though. I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair. Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy). Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running. Those are fair points to make. Are you sure Valve loses money on Dota 2? I read an article where Dota 2 makes -more- money per user than LoL. Revenue per user is probably not the representative figure since it does not factor in the overheads which are independent of the servers. Also there are far fewer dota2 players. My point is that profitability from dota2 is probably not Valve's top priority since its a Steam exclusive and the game by itself can be seen as marketing cost for Valve. Those are all fair points to make, but they're coming off as counter points to Dota 2 having a better monitezation plan to LoL. I don't really think a large factor of boosting the revenue per user can be attributed to Valve spending more money on their engine and bug testing. I don't think that encourages players to buy accessories to make their Queen of Pain sexier or their Axe more badass looking. @Ansibled Yes they fixed it. Well, yeah, a guy from EA came out publicly and said that Riot could be making a fuckton more off of their players and Riot basically shrugged and said "Yeah, but that's not the point." They still made $1billion+ last year. The more oppressive the monetization becomes in League the more likely players are to leave for games that have more free stuff. No Riot made over $1 billion in revenue last year (by a third party estimate which may or may not be accurate), which means actual profits were probably a low double digit percentage of that at best.
I never said it was profit or revenue.
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On September 01 2015 03:06 VayneAuthority wrote:
pretty much. it took companies a long time to realize that the 99%/1% dichotomy is insanely profitable if you have a massive playerbase because then that 1% isnt insignificant.
referring to the thing where 99% of people will pay nothing or an average amount of money...and then a 1% will spend an insane amount of money on your game when there is no cap on it like a monthly subscription or just straight up buying a game for like 60 dollars.
The biggest strength for an online game is that players themselves are content for the game. Keeping a large, healthy player base means better content overall.
This is why f2p mmo games are the way to go (using mmo to not specifically refer to RPG here)
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You know what I miss?
When this game used to have lore beyond character backgrounds. Why did they have to cut the League? Are they ever going to replace it with some sort of overarching story? I really hope so
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On September 01 2015 03:02 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 02:26 Sonnington wrote:On September 01 2015 01:27 Sufficiency wrote:On September 01 2015 00:47 Sonnington wrote:On August 31 2015 23:54 Sufficiency wrote:On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though. I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair. Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy). Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running. Those are fair points to make. Are you sure Valve loses money on Dota 2? I read an article where Dota 2 makes -more- money per user than LoL. Revenue per user is probably not the representative figure since it does not factor in the overheads which are independent of the servers. Also there are far fewer dota2 players. My point is that profitability from dota2 is probably not Valve's top priority since its a Steam exclusive and the game by itself can be seen as marketing cost for Valve. Those are all fair points to make, but they're coming off as counter points to Dota 2 having a better monitezation plan to LoL. I don't really think a large factor of boosting the revenue per user can be attributed to Valve spending more money on their engine and bug testing. I don't think that encourages players to buy accessories to make their Queen of Pain sexier or their Axe more badass looking. @Ansibled Yes they fixed it. Well, yeah, a guy from EA came out publicly and said that Riot could be making a fuckton more off of their players and Riot basically shrugged and said "Yeah, but that's not the point." They still made $1billion+ last year. The more oppressive the monetization becomes in League the more likely players are to leave for games that have more free stuff.
The EA guy is probably a fool, at least with their current model. I think the skin market is saturated in that users are not going to buy at a significantly higher rate if Riot doubles its skin output. They also cant really go back to the 2013 model of champ releases because they already have so many it would actually be counterproductive. They really need to open up other revenue streams, and through things that people want to microtransact in. RP betting on ESports is an obvious option, opening another title is one they should have done 2 years ago.
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That's what they do with wards and profile icons (generic or team flairs), etc.
And yeah the EA guy was an idiot who basically said "These guys are obviously business newbies because they don't realise how much more they could be milking their players. That's lack of experience and they're lucky they're successful... for now." Because treating LoL same as the latest CoD installment wouldn't have impeded its growth and instead been a boon on the long term.
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On September 01 2015 03:02 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 02:26 Sonnington wrote:On September 01 2015 01:27 Sufficiency wrote:On September 01 2015 00:47 Sonnington wrote:On August 31 2015 23:54 Sufficiency wrote:On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though. I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair. Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy). Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running. Those are fair points to make. Are you sure Valve loses money on Dota 2? I read an article where Dota 2 makes -more- money per user than LoL. Revenue per user is probably not the representative figure since it does not factor in the overheads which are independent of the servers. Also there are far fewer dota2 players. My point is that profitability from dota2 is probably not Valve's top priority since its a Steam exclusive and the game by itself can be seen as marketing cost for Valve. Those are all fair points to make, but they're coming off as counter points to Dota 2 having a better monitezation plan to LoL. I don't really think a large factor of boosting the revenue per user can be attributed to Valve spending more money on their engine and bug testing. I don't think that encourages players to buy accessories to make their Queen of Pain sexier or their Axe more badass looking. @Ansibled Yes they fixed it. Well, yeah, a guy from EA came out publicly and said that Riot could be making a fuckton more off of their players and Riot basically shrugged and said "Yeah, but that's not the point." They still made $1billion+ last year. The more oppressive the monetization becomes in League the more likely players are to leave for games that have more free stuff.
I think Dota 2's monetization is less oppressive. You don't need to buy champs, there's no IP, and you can only buy skin accessories. A full set is roughly the same price or less than a LoL skin, but you have the choice to mix and match. If Dota 2 is making more money than LoL, per user, their monetization is basically better in every way. Valve also takes a cut of everything sold on the Marketplace.
I also want to note, I think the way LoL introduces champions to new players through free weeks is superior to Dota 2's method of giving everyone all the champs from the start. It allows players to learn the game slowly and learn a few champions thoroughly. But I guess in Dota 2 you have to give all the heroes in the game for free due to the hard counter nature of the game? That's what I've heard at least. In any event, the free week introduction of champs is a positive byproduct of Riot's monetization plan.
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Baa?21244 Posts
EA is much more competent at running a business than Riot is, though. The only people who hate EA are hardcore gamers who post about this kind of shit on forums. By any real and quantifiable metric of business success and sustainability, EA is absolutely killing it.
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On September 01 2015 04:00 Alaric wrote:
That's what they do with wards and profile icons (generic or team flairs), etc.
And yeah the EA guy was an idiot who basically said "These guys are obviously business newbies because they don't realise how much more they could be milking their players. That's lack of experience and they're lucky they're successful... for now." Because treating LoL same as the latest CoD installment wouldn't have impeded its growth and instead been a boon on the long term.
I really dont think those are another revenue stream. Those are more like just releasing extra skins, and serve as a different cosmetic option. I doubt many $0 players were enticed to buy them, and I also think people who bought them more often than not did so in lieu of buying a skin.
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On September 01 2015 04:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
EA is much more competent at running a business than Riot is, though. The only people who hate EA are hardcore gamers who post about this kind of shit on forums. By any real and quantifiable metric of business success and sustainability, EA is absolutely killing it.
I'm pretty far out of the loop and have been for a few years, but iirc lots of game developers being published by EA were hating them / predicting industry crash / etc. Did something change?
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On September 01 2015 05:34 TheHumanSensation wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 04:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
EA is much more competent at running a business than Riot is, though. The only people who hate EA are hardcore gamers who post about this kind of shit on forums. By any real and quantifiable metric of business success and sustainability, EA is absolutely killing it. I'm pretty far out of the loop and have been for a few years, but iirc lots of game developers being published by EA were hating them / predicting industry crash / etc. Did something change?
Being well liked != being successful
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On September 01 2015 04:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
EA is much more competent at running a business than Riot is, though. The only people who hate EA are hardcore gamers who post about this kind of shit on forums. By any real and quantifiable metric of business success and sustainability, EA is absolutely killing it.
So are Miley Cyrus and Kim Kardashian, doesn't mean we should emulate them.
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On September 01 2015 05:38 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 04:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
EA is much more competent at running a business than Riot is, though. The only people who hate EA are hardcore gamers who post about this kind of shit on forums. By any real and quantifiable metric of business success and sustainability, EA is absolutely killing it. So are Miley Cyrus and Kim Kardashian, doesn't mean we should emulate them.
I don't know EA's entire game profile, but they make the FIFA games and do it very well, a lot of their Star Wars games have been great, and my GF loves the Sims. These all seem like things that people should try to emulate in how the games almost always improve year to year and often end up incorporating things the consumers actually want. It looks like they have some shitter, like Spore which should have been cool, but even Blizzard released D3 in the state that game was released.
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On September 01 2015 04:08 Sonnington wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 03:02 Gahlo wrote:On September 01 2015 02:26 Sonnington wrote:On September 01 2015 01:27 Sufficiency wrote:On September 01 2015 00:47 Sonnington wrote:On August 31 2015 23:54 Sufficiency wrote:On August 31 2015 01:01 Sonnington wrote:
I was wrong, runes are only 515, 1025, and 2050.
To play devils advocate, Riot's system isn't overly unfair. You don't need to buy all the champions to be competitive in ranked. In fact, a lot of people only play a handful of champs in ranked to get to high positions. So the IP grind just encourages people to spend real money in order for Riot to continue operations. So, in that respect, it's not totally unfair.
You could argue Dota 2 does it better by only offering cosmetic upgrades. Which is a fair point to make. They apparently also make more money per user on average. I think it's too late for Riot to go with an accessory skin system though. I have said this in various places and I will try this again: dota2 is not even remotely comparable to LoL because Valve is a completely different beast. Comparing dota2 monetization to LoL's is extremely unfair. Valve is more of a publisher than developer these days; they don't have to rely on dota2 to survive. In fact, Valve probably does not mind losing money on dota2 since to play dota2 you need to install Steam - which is basically advertisement for their platform (what do you see when you go into Steam? Oh yeah, a bunch of games Valve wants you to buy). Riot has only one game and needs to make income from itself. Nothing is free in this world and Riot does need to maintain profitable to pay its employees and keep the servers running. Those are fair points to make. Are you sure Valve loses money on Dota 2? I read an article where Dota 2 makes -more- money per user than LoL. Revenue per user is probably not the representative figure since it does not factor in the overheads which are independent of the servers. Also there are far fewer dota2 players. My point is that profitability from dota2 is probably not Valve's top priority since its a Steam exclusive and the game by itself can be seen as marketing cost for Valve. Those are all fair points to make, but they're coming off as counter points to Dota 2 having a better monitezation plan to LoL. I don't really think a large factor of boosting the revenue per user can be attributed to Valve spending more money on their engine and bug testing. I don't think that encourages players to buy accessories to make their Queen of Pain sexier or their Axe more badass looking. @Ansibled Yes they fixed it. Well, yeah, a guy from EA came out publicly and said that Riot could be making a fuckton more off of their players and Riot basically shrugged and said "Yeah, but that's not the point." They still made $1billion+ last year. The more oppressive the monetization becomes in League the more likely players are to leave for games that have more free stuff. I think Dota 2's monetization is less oppressive. You don't need to buy champs, there's no IP, and you can only buy skin accessories. A full set is roughly the same price or less than a LoL skin, but you have the choice to mix and match. If Dota 2 is making more money than LoL, per user, their monetization is basically better in every way. Valve also takes a cut of everything sold on the Marketplace.
In my experience a full set of dota 2 hero accessories that I actually wanted frequently cost less than $1. Occasionally there would be one piece that I was interested in which cost more than $1 because it had special particles or w/e. I think the quality is also lower though. Many of the heroes only have pathetic cosmetic options whereas nearly every LoL champ I own has a skin that I would buy if I had the money.
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I know newcomers were really put off during TI5 though because the cosmetics made the models so different for some of them that they woudn't recognise the same hero between two games.
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On September 01 2015 05:38 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 04:49 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
EA is much more competent at running a business than Riot is, though. The only people who hate EA are hardcore gamers who post about this kind of shit on forums. By any real and quantifiable metric of business success and sustainability, EA is absolutely killing it. So are Miley Cyrus and Kim Kardashian, doesn't mean we should emulate them.
or give a fuck about their opinions on anything, except perhaps to do the opposite.
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On September 01 2015 07:05 Alaric wrote:
I know newcomers were really put off during TI5 though because the cosmetics made the models so different for some of them that they woudn't recognise the same hero between two games.
Hero recognition is harder in Dota, in general, though.
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Well, yeah, a guy from EA came out publicly and said that Riot could be making a fuckton more off of their players and Riot basically shrugged and said "Yeah, but that's not the point." They still made $1billion+ last year. The more oppressive the monetization becomes in League the more likely players are to leave for games that have more free stuff.
Riot creates consumer loyalty exactly through this. Don't get me wrong; I think Riot's absolutely great in what they do for E-sports (if gaming is ever going to be become an olympic sport like I think.. Ryze? at one point said was their dream the LCS is the way to do it). There's a long-term view here that's rare for a company as large as Riot. If they were to ever make a new game and it didn't blow they'd make billions in the first week because people believe they are gamers rather then businessmen like the folks at EA.
I also read a report at one point that guessed Riot was running at a net loss but it didn't matter because they attracted insane amounts of investor money because of this long-term view. Don't remember where it was though.
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Baa?21244 Posts
There is zero chance Riot is running at a net loss.
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riot has said in the past that the league specifically was, not them as a whole, although with coke and whatnot involved at this point I'm not so sure about that even.
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On September 01 2015 15:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
There is zero chance Riot is running at a net loss.
Oh most definitely. The only aspects that are running at a loss are doing so because of accounting trickery. LCS does not run at a loss. Its profits simply show up on the books under skin sales.
It would be like claiming your marketing division was making a loss because it move any merchandise.
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On September 01 2015 16:15 Slusher wrote:
riot has said in the past that the league specifically was, not them as a whole, although with coke and whatnot involved at this point I'm not so sure about that even.
If they don't count their own adverts for League then I'm pretty sure it still is.
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The report was from 2 years ago or something, so I can easily imagine it being true at that point. Even now I can see the game itself not being very profitable because of some of the crazy shit they do around it.
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is the nerfed viktor worth to play now? currently theres a creator viktor skin sale for me and not sure whether to buy.
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What defines troll picks? I mean if we assume that a person is playing his best, but picks an orthodox champ for a particular role. Garen adc, Garen support, zed jungle, zed support etc., everything like that. How do you know he is trolling? what indicates that this is a troll pick and gives you the right to preach on him? If he as support zed steals farm does it means that he is a troll because he picked zed or because he steals farm? If he steals farm with Sona, then what? Still the same as Zed?
I am not sure I can explain what I am trying to ask, but what provides you the right to point someone as a troll pick formally, a particular - official rules that you can judge based on?
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is riot ok with current state of devourer ? i still think this item is bonkers on certain champions -.-
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On September 01 2015 20:39 kongoline wrote:
is riot ok with current state of devourer ? i still think this item is bonkers on certain champions -.-
I think it's fine. Some champs it's strong on, some champs its not. The key thing is the champs that it's strong on don't automatically dominate the whole game like Feral Flares first iteration did.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
On September 01 2015 16:33 Goumindong wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2015 15:44 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
There is zero chance Riot is running at a net loss. Oh most definitely. The only aspects that are running at a loss are doing so because of accounting trickery. LCS does not run at a loss. Its profits simply show up on the books under skin sales. It would be like claiming your marketing division was making a loss because it move any merchandise.
That's not accounting trickery. That's just a loss leader.
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On September 01 2015 19:36 justiceknight wrote:
is the nerfed viktor worth to play now? currently theres a creator viktor skin sale for me and not sure whether to buy.
@justiceknight
It depends. In terms of win rate? Absolutely not. Viktor has a 47% win rate. This may change in the future but i sincerely doubt it. Viktor has never really been above a 50% and i don't expect that he or the meta will change in a way that makes it so. His advantages are hard to use in competitive and even harder in soloqueue.
In terms of play style? Maybe. Viktor is one of the few hard clear mid laners and so this can be valuable, especially if you're generally not a good mid player. Specific to the current meta; Viktor gets bodied by Ahri and Ahri is the most picked mid champion right now. But other champions like Kog and Anivia can probably fill that area better than viktor can.
In terms of aesthetics? Maybe. Creator Viktor is a skin I like a lot. But all of the skins for Viktor(including the base skin) are really good.Creator is full "Von Doom" while the others are all very "leaguey" so if you like that aesthetic then its a good pickup. Worth noting is that creator Viktor loses the hand. And so cannot do some of the staff grab animations
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Azir gets more dps but loses part of his burst from hitting a Q-aa-aa combo. Took them long enough to realise the amount of burst on a low cd from Q was an issue for the "sustained damage" mage. o/
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Oh damn they nerfed gp barrel setup as well as damage. Sadness.
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Champion buffs/nerfs all seem reasonable to me. Except some nerfs are missing like Fiora and Skarner. Hopefully those will come with 5.18.
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They already put through nerfs on Skarner in a hotfix on live. Don't know if that was enough since when I let him through my teammates feed so hard without him doing anything then blame it on Skarner
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United States37500 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3d/Sainsburys_lorry_refrigerated_trailer.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LH3P3ul.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb1440165812/leagueoflegends/images/math/e/f/7/ef79dbe203255b61851befe6923d87f6.png)
