Welcome to the General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread. While posting standards tend to be rather lax in this thread, pointless spam will not be tolerated.
Certain topics are blacklisted from LoL General Discussion and they include:
elo hell
tribunal
bans, either from TL.net or LoL
"what is a tank" (and other vague monikers)
AD v ArPen runes
GP10 items
Additionally, the TL LoL Ten Commandments are available for you to reference if you have any questions about this subforum. Use the LoL Strategy subforum if you have game specific questions. Lastly, confine QQing and bragging to their respective threads.
The newest champion for this patch is Zac, the Secret Weapon. (For real this time.)
Karma has been relaunched with updates to her model, her kit and her story. If you would like more information, you can read more here.
Gathering Fire (Passive)
Reduce’s Mantra’s cooldown every time Karma damages an enemy with one of her abilities (Half-effect for Karma’s basic-attacks).
Inner Flame (Q)
Fires a blast of energy that explodes upon enemy contact, dealing magic damage and slowing all enemies in the area.
Mantra Bonus – Soulflare: Deals additional magic damage and leaves a circle of flame at the impact area (or upon reaching maximum range), heavily slowing all enemies inside the circle. After a brief delay the circle erupts, dealing heavy magic damage to all enemies in the area.
Focused Resolve (W)
Links Karma to target enemy champion, revealing them and dealing magic damage over 2 seconds. If the link is not broken, the enemy is rooted.
Mantra Bonus – Renewal: Focused Resolve deals bonus magic damage over time and heals Karma for a percent of her missing health while linked to her target.
Inspire (E)
Target ally gains a shield, granting movement speed for a brief duration and absorbing damage.
Mantra Bonus – Defiance: The shield overflows with energy, dealing magic damage to all enemies around the shielded unit. Allied champions near the shielded unit gain half of that amount as a shield and are hasted.
Mantra (Ultimate)
Karma empowers her next ability within 8 seconds for an additional effect.
Akali
Akali’s Twilight Shroud was behaving inconsistently before this patch, so we’ve adjusted it to better match its visual and theme, and to provide greater opportunity for counterplay.
Twilight Shroud
Akali is now immediately stealthed/revealed upon entering/leaving the Shroud zone
Akali is now immediately stealthed when casting Twilight Shroud directly on herself
Akali is now revealed from stealth upon casting a spell or beginning an attack rather than upon dealing damage
Delay on re-stealthing increased by 0.15 seconds
Anivia
Crystallize
Fixed a bug where Crystallize could stop uninterruptible movement abilities such as Malphite's Unstoppable Force
Ashe
Focus
Now displays the Critical Strike chance bonus on the buff bar
Draven
Spinning Axe
Now leads Draven more accurately when he is benefiting from Movement Speed increases
Axe drop location will no longer be placed partially inside walls / terrain
Hecarim
The previous version of Spirit of Dread did not offer enough opportunities for tactical decision-making. With higher cooldowns, our goal is to reintroduce strategic choices other than merely activating the ability whenever it is available.
Spirit of Dread
Cooldown increased to 22/21/20/19/18 seconds from 18/17/16/15/14
Master Yi
Double Strike
Double Strike swing time now scales with Master Yi's Attack Speed instead of being fixed at 0.6 seconds
Fixed a bug where the second strike of Double Strike could critically hit turrets
Riven
Wind Slash
Fixed a bug where Riven could cast Wind Slash a second time after using Zhonya's Hourglass
Rumble
Rumble’s ultimate was intended to be an area control effect but, with the large upfront damage it deals, it tends to be used more as a long-range nuke instead. With this patch, we’re adjusting The Equalizer to better match its original intent.
Electro-Harpoon
Fixed a bug where the visual effect would disappear before the actual end of the projectile
The Equalizer
No longer deals initial impact damage but the area burn damage now starts immediately instead of after a 0.5 second delay
Burn damage per second increased to 130/185/240 (+0.3 Ability Power) from 100/140/180 (+0.2 Ability Power) (total damage dealt across the full duration is unchanged)
Trundle
Pillar of Filth
Fixed a bug where Pillar of Filth could stop uninterruptible movement abilities such as Malphite's Unstoppable Force
Udyr
In this patch, we’ve made some substantial changes to Udyr. Our goals were to make changing stances feel more impactful, transfer power from passive stats to actual noticeable effects and reduce problematic lane issues. For example, Turtle Stance currently allows Udyr to become an immovable object in lane once he gets ahead, and we want to address that.
Mana cost of all stances decreased to 47/44/41/38/35 from 55/50/45/40/35
Monkey's Agility
Now grants 5 Movement Speed per stack instead of 4% bonus Armor and Magic Resistance
Turtle Stance
No longer returns mana when dealing damage
Shield increased to 60/100/140/180/220 from 60/95/130/165/200
Udyr can now critically strike in Turtle Stance
Bear Stance
Udyr now ignores unit collision while the movement speed bonus is active
Udyr now performs a slight dash toward his target on stunning attacks while the movement speed is active
Bear stance attacks can no longer be self-interrupted mid-attack
Movement speed increased to 15/20/25/30/35% from 15/18/21/24/27%
Movement speed duration reduced to 2/2.25/2.5/2.75/3 seconds from 2/2.5/3/3.5/4
Phoenix Stance
First attack after activating Phoenix Stance now immediately procs the fire cone in addition to every 3rd attack
No longer grants bonus Ability Power and Attack Damage when activated
Ability Power ratio on the fire cone increased to 0.45 from 0.15
Updated the fire cone's spell effect to be more visible
Warwick
Hunter's Call
Now displays range indicator on mouseover
Blood Scent
Now displays range indicator on minimap on mouseover
Zed
Living Shadow
Fixed a bug where Living Shadow would sometimes cast in a random direction
Items
Nashor's Tooth
Combine cost increased to 430 gold from 200 (total cost increased to 2500 gold from 2270)
Spirit of the Elder Lizard
UNIQUE Passive damage reduced to 6-40 over 3 seconds from 14-50
Maw of Malmortius
Fixed a bug where the Lifeline shield was lasting for 3 seconds instead of 5
Champion Select AFK Detection
When any player in a match-made game fails to select a champion before their timer expires, the game is terminated.
A player who fails to select a champion is given a queue dodge penalty. The dodge penalty functions exactly the same as if the player closed their PVP.net client.
Solo players who succeed in selecting a champion are returned to the front of the matchmaking queue.
Arranged teams whose members all succeed in selecting a champion are returned to the front of the matchmaking queue.
Arranged teams with one or more members who fail to select a champion are returned to the arranged team lobby.
Draft mode is handled on a pick-by-pick basis. If a player fails to pick a champion during their turn, the game is terminated immediately. Players later in the draft order, who did not have an opportunity to pick a champion, are given the benefit of the doubt and not assigned a dodge penalty.
This feature currently only applies to match made games. Custom games still assign a random champion if one is not selected.
General
Turrets
In Season 3, we made a few changes that made turrets feel less like a safe haven for defenders – especially in the early parts of the game. Specifically, with turrets attacking minions in a set order and some champions itemizing for health earlier on, it’s become easier for teams to push aggressively and even dive turrets with low risk. These changes should give defending players more of a fighting chance when under their own turret.
Turrets now deal 105% damage to champions for the first attack, increased from 94.5%
Turrets now deal 25% additional damage for consecutive attacks on the same champion (max 225%), increased from 20% (max 210%)
Siege Minions
Siege Minions now take 70% damage from Turrets, increased from 50% damage
Siege Minions now deal 150% damage to Turrets, reduced from 200% damage
Super Minions
Super Minions now take 70% damage from Turrets, increased from 50% damage
Teleport
We are fixing a bug with Teleport where its visual effect would disappear if cast on an expiring temporary unit. Teleport should always be visible to opponents who have vision of the area, much like how casting it on a non-revealed ward still displays a visual effect.
Fixed a bug where Teleport's "incoming" visual effect on the target unit would disappear if cast on an expiring temporary unit, such as Jarvan's Standard or Thresh's Lantern
Fixed a bug where new players could not be invited to Matchmaking lobbies after teammates miss a ready check
Smart casting with charge-up abilities should be more responsive now
Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
Son of a bitch...another Spirit of the Elder Lizard nerf. Well that pretty much makes it useless. I had so much fun using it on Skarner. Why does Riot hate me so much? It wasn't even that strong...
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
If I outplay you in lane you shouldn't be able to hide behind your turret that does all of my health in three seconds.
It's a lot harder to out play someone in lane, get a big advantage, and then be helpless to kill them without a gank because your turret is too strong than it is to "outplay" someone who's attempting to tower dive you. Even before these buffs it was nearly impossible, or else really really difficult, to tower dive someone early if they had any form of hard CC.
If I outplay someone and they stick around with half HP or less I should be able to punish them. With stronger turrets I can't punish them much at all.
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
Why are turrets supposed to be not useless? A turret-centric game at it's core is very boring and one dimensional. The game should be about champions. I think Riot is buffing them because they don't like 1v3 dives, but I do not understand. a 2 + turret vs 3 is heavily favorable for the defending side. (it's a countergank)
Turrets being strong is simply protecting people who get outplayed and have a skill disadvantage compared to their opponent. If I shit on you in lane and turrets are weak, I can dive you over and over. Riot doesn't want this because it's "toxic", but I think that it's very bad for the game. Honestly, I think almost nothing (on the micro scale) takes skill to execute in League. It's all making the right decisions and almost none raw, mechanical skill, which is something I don't like and I think that it provides uninteresting game play. Don't even get me started on "anti-fun" and "burden of knowledge".
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
Ya past early game turrets dont really do much, even early game they barely do anything unless you like lvl 1 dive or something stupid
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
Ya past early game turrets dont really do much, even early game they barely do anything unless you like lvl 1 dive or something stupid
This is a huge change for pro play, way fewer 3v1 tower dives in lane swaps. I really liked the aggression that this brought to the game. Idk I just feel like this will promote passive play.
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
Ya past early game turrets dont really do much, even early game they barely do anything unless you like lvl 1 dive or something stupid
This is a huge change for pro play, way fewer 3v1 tower dives in lane swaps. I really liked the aggression that this brought to the game. Idk I just feel like this will promote passive play.
Of course a turret buff will promote passive play. I think Riot makes a few too many short sighted decisions. Normally, I wouldn't really care, but the future of many people (that I'm invested in) are riding on Riot's decision making.
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
Ya past early game turrets dont really do much, even early game they barely do anything unless you like lvl 1 dive or something stupid
i've seen successful 5 man level 1 dives top lane. didn't even get caught. guy just hugging his tower gets dunked by 5 guys in teamspeak.
If these turret changes kill the lane swap we would be back to 1v1v2 where the laning phase is going to last forever since pushing down towers is going to be even harder. This wouldn't be so bad if vision wasn't so cheap that it made it almost impossible for Junglers to get a gank off. Doublelift obviously payed off Riot to go through with these changes, farm for 40 minutes and carry CLG to victory.
On March 28 2013 12:14 Gahlo wrote: Because 3 man dives at 3:30-4:00 was so entertaining.
More entertaining then passive laning with no Jungler presence :/ It was also nice because it allowed for teams to take quick towers and roam around the map and be around to make action happen.
I think the turret nerfs are more to even out some options in the game. Currently there is like ALWAYS towerdives going on everywhere all the time because It's so easy. Even as early as level 2/3. Tower diving will still be possible of course with this adjustment, it just won't be mandatory or as common. I like the change.
I never get dived at 4:00 in my games. It's more targeted towards pros.
I used to get dived a lot when I first started the game. Often it'd turn out well for me. Then after like level 30 (or something) and until now I never get dived anymore unless the person diving me has a good reason and is almost certain they can kill me. The change means that if a wave gets pushed into tower and it has a cannon minion, the cannon minion will tank less shots. And it might change how risky dives are at higher levels, but I could care less. Game is going to get more passive though :/
As a single patch, I don't think much changed, and that's fine for me.
I have to take a look at Karma's numbers. Losing the AoE heal seems like a big deal, but if I'm reading this right, her ult now enhances the damage on her Q, W, and E, and can give her Q up to 3 sources of magic damage on a single target. Also she has CC.
On March 28 2013 12:17 MooMooMugi wrote: Not sure if Kissblade is trolling
Why would that be trolling? Buffing turrets protects bad players from dying to people better than them and they promote passiveness.
Not particularly. This change is minor enough that it won't change most of the situations where you can dive successfully. If you're actually good this can work out in your favor, since people will be lulled into being a little more complacent thinking turrets are stronger than they actually are.
It probably hurts the level 2-3 dive the most. I reckon it might kill you in one less hit since the margin is so tight early on, but I'd say that's a good thing.
On March 28 2013 12:20 LOLItsRyann wrote: I think the turret nerfs are more to even out some options in the game. Currently there is like ALWAYS towerdives going on everywhere all the time because It's so easy. Even as early as level 2/3. Tower diving will still be possible of course with this adjustment, it just won't be mandatory or as common. I like the change.
What else are you going to do though? Farm in lane? I feel like inherently there just aren't that many other options.
The fundamental issue with the 3v1 dive is that Riot has created a scenario where there isn't much alternative for the off-laner. In the best case scenario, he survives the dive, but misses out on 3+ waves of creeps, and still might lose the tower.
There's no alternative play for the off-laner though other than to go to lane and hope to be able to sneak some XP. Possibly because Riot has never really designed the game with the alternative of an off-laner just not going to lane and, say, ganking another lane instead as an option. If the off-laner is not actually going to hit level 2 before the dive though, and then get dived, what is the point of going to lane at all? He should be able to gank mid or your 2v1, and possibly accomplish something there. But at this point, level 1 vision is pervasive enough that such a level 1 gank mid is very unlikely to bear fruit.
Related to this is also that the amount of gold/XP in the jungle isn't enough to support both the off-laner and the jungler if the off-laner can't go to lane and needs somewhere else to farm.
I think the tower changes make the 3v1 dive harder, but it doesn't actually address the core problem that there is no alternative for the off-laner to do anything but walk into a hopeless situation. Given how pervasive vision is and the fact that there's not enough gold/XP in the jungle to support more than one person leveling, there's no recourse for an off-laner other than to go to that hopeless lane and not die.
On March 28 2013 12:33 TheYango wrote: The fundamental issue with the 3v1 dive is that Riot has created a scenario where there isn't much alternative for the off-laner. In the best case scenario, he survives the dive, but misses out on 3+ waves of creeps, and still might lose the tower.
There's no alternative play for the off-laner though other than to go to lane and hope to be able to sneak some XP. Possibly because Riot has never really designed the game with the alternative of an off-laner just not going to lane and, say, ganking another lane instead as an option. If the off-laner is not actually going to hit level 2 before the dive though, and then get dived, what is the point of going to lane at all? He should be able to gank mid or your 2v1, and possibly accomplish something there. But at this point, level 1 vision is pervasive enough that such a level 1 gank mid is very unlikely to bear fruit.
Related to this is also that the amount of gold/XP in the jungle isn't enough to support both the off-laner and the jungler if the off-laner can't go to lane and needs somewhere else to farm.
I think the tower changes make the 3v1 dive harder, but it doesn't actually address the core problem that there is no alternative for the off-laner to do anything but walk into a hopeless situation. Given how pervasive vision is and the fact that there's not enough gold/XP in the jungle to support more than one person leveling, there's no recourse for an off-laner other than to go to that hopeless lane and not die.
The jungler can just come and create a favorable 2 + turret vs 3 situation.
Right but that forces the off-laner to rely on his jungler. There is no opportunity for the off-laner to be the playmaker, which is why the situation feels so shitty from the off-laner's perspective because it feels like they have no control over the situation.
On March 28 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote: Right but that forces the off-laner to rely on his jungler. There is no opportunity for the off-laner to be the playmaker, which is why the situation feels so shitty from the off-laner's perspective because it feels like they have no control over the situation.
I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you. There are many things wrong with this game. You should be able to outplay people somehow but it's not really possible. Things like trees to juke around (especially that hiding spot behind the turrets) and TP scrolls would be helpful.
I wonder how the damage received change for siege minions will affect lane control, and especially the impact for people who are pretty good at it and will have to relearn some stuff.
New patch seems to be a bit of a radical change this early into S3. I see that Riot doesn't like the new meta of lvl3 ganks, but they have to realize that people are going to prioritize aggressive play that snowballs. I liked when lvl2 ganks were a big part of the meta, and I liked the new 3 man lvl 3 gank top or bot and take turret meta. What I don't want is a no-push-50-meta that would stall the game, like the phase DotA went through a long while ago; that would make me quit LoL immidiately lol.
On March 28 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote: Right but that forces the off-laner to rely on his jungler. There is no opportunity for the off-laner to be the playmaker, which is why the situation feels so shitty from the off-laner's perspective because it feels like they have no control over the situation.
I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you. There are many things wrong with this game. You should be able to outplay people somehow but it's not really possible. Things like trees to juke around (especially that hiding spot behind the turrets) and TP scrolls would be helpful.
Dis isn't dotar. And I thought DotA turrets did less damage. And that 2v1 and tri lanes were designed to shut people down harder.
If your enemy team is coordinated enough to go all 3 to a tower, and your jungler is not coordinated enough to help then they deserve the tower. You shouldn't be able to outplay everyone in a 1v3.
If you really need the low level options then one thing that Age of Empires 3 did was it let you pick your deck (think summoners and masteries) any time in the game but then you'd be locked into your deck. You weren't able to use any cards too early anyways because you needed experience. If players found themselves in a 1v2 they could similarly swap masteries to be more tanky and have barrier and flash to be more defensive. The artificial method of buffing towers is just dumb. Wasn't fortify removed because it made tower dives impossible?
On March 28 2013 12:57 docvoc wrote: New patch seems to be a bit of a radical change this early into S3. I see that Riot doesn't like the new meta of lvl3 ganks, but they have to realize that people are going to prioritize aggressive play that snowballs. I liked when lvl2 ganks were a big part of the meta, and I liked the new 3 man lvl 3 gank top or bot and take turret meta. What I don't want is a no-push-50-meta that would stall the game, like the phase DotA went through a long while ago; that would make me quit LoL immidiately lol.
Champion Select AFK Detection When any player in a match-made game fails to select a champion before their timer expires, the game is terminated. A player who fails to select a champion is given a queue dodge penalty. The dodge penalty functions exactly the same as if the player closed their PVP.net client. Solo players who succeed in selecting a champion are returned to the front of the matchmaking queue. Arranged teams whose members all succeed in selecting a champion are returned to the front of the matchmaking queue. Arranged teams with one or more members who fail to select a champion are returned to the arranged team lobby. Draft mode is handled on a pick-by-pick basis. If a player fails to pick a champion during their turn, the game is terminated immediately. Players later in the draft order, who did not have an opportunity to pick a champion, are given the benefit of the doubt and not assigned a dodge penalty. This feature currently only applies to match made games. Custom games still assign a random champion if one is not selected.
Champion Select AFK Detection When any player in a match-made game fails to select a champion before their timer expires, the game is terminated. A player who fails to select a champion is given a queue dodge penalty. The dodge penalty functions exactly the same as if the player closed their PVP.net client. Solo players who succeed in selecting a champion are returned to the front of the matchmaking queue. Arranged teams whose members all succeed in selecting a champion are returned to the front of the matchmaking queue. Arranged teams with one or more members who fail to select a champion are returned to the arranged team lobby. Draft mode is handled on a pick-by-pick basis. If a player fails to pick a champion during their turn, the game is terminated immediately. Players later in the draft order, who did not have an opportunity to pick a champion, are given the benefit of the doubt and not assigned a dodge penalty. This feature currently only applies to match made games. Custom games still assign a random champion if one is not selected.
I approve.
I think this is at least something we can all agree on.
On March 28 2013 12:57 docvoc wrote: New patch seems to be a bit of a radical change this early into S3. I see that Riot doesn't like the new meta of lvl3 ganks, but they have to realize that people are going to prioritize aggressive play that snowballs. I liked when lvl2 ganks were a big part of the meta, and I liked the new 3 man lvl 3 gank top or bot and take turret meta. What I don't want is a no-push-50-meta that would stall the game, like the phase DotA went through a long while ago; that would make me quit LoL immidiately lol.
Early? We're nearly four full months into it. Season 2 ended 5 months ago.
On March 28 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote: Right but that forces the off-laner to rely on his jungler. There is no opportunity for the off-laner to be the playmaker, which is why the situation feels so shitty from the off-laner's perspective because it feels like they have no control over the situation.
I know, I wasn't disagreeing with you. There are many things wrong with this game. You should be able to outplay people somehow but it's not really possible. Things like trees to juke around (especially that hiding spot behind the turrets) and TP scrolls would be helpful.
Dis isn't dotar. And I thought DotA turrets did less damage. And that 2v1 and tri lanes were designed to shut people down harder.
If your enemy team is coordinated enough to go all 3 to a tower, and your jungler is not coordinated enough to help then they deserve the tower. You shouldn't be able to outplay everyone in a 1v3.
If you really need the low level options then one thing that Age of Empires 3 did was it let you pick your deck (think summoners and masteries) any time in the game but then you'd be locked into your deck. You weren't able to use any cards too early anyways because you needed experience. If players found themselves in a 1v2 they could similarly swap masteries to be more tanky and have barrier and flash to be more defensive. The artificial method of buffing towers is just dumb. Wasn't fortify removed because it made tower dives impossible?
Don't you think that there are way too few situations in League where you can outplay (in other words, outskill) your opponent? I feel like all you do is not die and take objectives with your team. Bot and top lane are good places to actually be aggressive, but that never happens anymore in LCS, and a part of me always still feels like I should be able to do more stuff that requires skill to execute, not just "correct decisions". I suppose that in this case, it's just me being used to starcraft and dota, the former where mechanical skill is actually required to play the game decently and the latter where heroes can go from carrying games by themselves to dying and dealing 0 damage (like on sf)
On March 28 2013 12:57 docvoc wrote: New patch seems to be a bit of a radical change this early into S3. I see that Riot doesn't like the new meta of lvl3 ganks, but they have to realize that people are going to prioritize aggressive play that snowballs. I liked when lvl2 ganks were a big part of the meta, and I liked the new 3 man lvl 3 gank top or bot and take turret meta. What I don't want is a no-push-50-meta that would stall the game, like the phase DotA went through a long while ago; that would make me quit LoL immidiately lol.
No-push-50 in League would be a billion times worse, because the map layout just doesn't allow for the amount of plays that don't involve pushing/objective control that DotA's does. That time in Chinese DotA still involved a lot of map movement and skirmishing, the same 'meta' in League would involve a lot of static farming in all 3 lanes.
*I don't mean this as a gamewide DotA vs League argument, just a specific case observation.
On March 28 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote: Right but that forces the off-laner to rely on his jungler. There is no opportunity for the off-laner to be the playmaker, which is why the situation feels so shitty from the off-laner's perspective because it feels like they have no control over the situation.
I think I've seen games where the jungler comes to help and he gets killed too.
Don't mind the Turret change. It was pretty much guaranteed (at the pro level) tower and kill if the player stayed and fought. Level 3 triple gank will still be strong, the change isn't huge, it just makes it more likely that there will be situations where a lone hero/duo combo will be able to make a play by defending the tower, getting a kill and stopping the push.
I don't think Riot's heart is in the wrong place with the turret change, but I don't think it addresses the issue, which is that there aren't enough options for off-laners to not feel helpless early game. If there were other options for them to farm/make plays it would diversify potential off-lane gameplay.
Admittedly, Riot probably hasn't really thought out the details of 1v2 gameplay because it's fairly new to how the game functions at the moment.
On March 28 2013 14:36 TheYango wrote: I don't think Riot's heart is in the wrong place with the turret change, but I don't think it addresses the issue, which is that there aren't enough options for off-laners to not feel helpless early game. If there were other options for them to farm/make plays it would diversify potential off-lane gameplay.
Admittedly, Riot probably hasn't really thought out the details of 1v2 gameplay because it's fairly new to how the game functions at the moment.
I mean what else can Riot do to make people stop doing 1v2 lanes or make it easier on the solo guy. Give him a buff, if hes against 2 lane opponents (WoW/GW2 do this in big PvP battlegrounds for the team with less players) and make him just outright stronger? But then how in the world do you balance that amoung all the champions without making something abuseable or OP. That would seem incredibly hard to do without making a ton of restraints and hoops to jump through to implement something like that.
Increase the gold available in the jungle to allow the off-laner to get farm if he can't go to lane without starving the jungler, reduce potential for early vision control (utility ward mastery, some sort of limit on wards being bought) to increase the effectiveness of possible level 1/2 ganks even from non-jungle heroes (also introduces the possibility of roaming supports as an alternative to 2v1).
If you increase the possibilities for low level map movement from the support and the off-laner, you open up a lot of possiblilities because suddenly the abiilty to countergank/fight uneven fights goes up a lot. But right now that's restricted by how much early map vision a team's starting wards can give them, and by the inability for an off-laner who can't actually farm in lane to get level 2 reliably.
Increasing the gold in the jungle throws off Riot's vision/design. If you noticed, jungle gold has not changed substantially through seasons despite all of Riot's "sweet talk"
It would also go against their beginning of S3 goal of keeping laners from farming jungle too much, but at this point, off-laners are more starved than junglers are at those levels.
On March 28 2013 15:09 cascades wrote: Increasing the gold in the jungle throws off Riot's vision/design. If you noticed, jungle gold has not changed substantially through seasons despite all of Riot's "sweet talk"
G0atsebusters' master plan: 1. Get new account to lvl 30 2. Lose placements and end up in bronze V 3. Stomp noobs and increase mmr 4. Dodge placement games (doesn't affect mmr) 5. Repeat 3+4 6. Keep increasing mmr while still bronze V 7. Wait for the reactions when diamond players realize their captain is a bronze V player 8. Report anyone who harasses you along the way (Optional: play jungle morg every game for moar lulz) You have made the league community a better place!
On March 28 2013 15:09 cascades wrote: Increasing the gold in the jungle throws off Riot's vision/design. If you noticed, jungle gold has not changed substantially through seasons despite all of Riot's "sweet talk"
It has gone down over time, actually.
Right. I believe actual s3 jungle gold has gone up, but efficient s3 jungle gold has gone down due to needing to spend money on machete and more pots. I am not sure so correct me if I am wrong.
Either way, you have to find another way that doesn't go against this unstated law of Riot's. I am fairly certain Riot doesn't consider it that big a problem to violate their tenets- as long as it doesn't spread over to non competitive play. (not likely)
On March 28 2013 12:46 HazMat wrote: No Lee Sin buff k
man i love lee sin i cry everytime i see no changes to him, its most fun champion in game but theres literally no reason to play him right now over any other jungler/toplaner
On March 28 2013 15:12 TheYango wrote: It would also go against their beginning of S3 goal of keeping laners from farming jungle too much, but at this point, off-laners are more starved than junglers are at those levels.
Part of the problem is that Riot went about increasing the value of the jungle the wrong way. The big difference between DotA and LoL's jungles, beyond a few mechanics, is that no jungler can actually fully clear their jungle. This is important, because it means lanes can take jungle farm without reducing the income of the jungler significantly, but it also means the jungler's income increases as their ability to clear the jungle increases.
The scaling jungle tries to simulate that organic increase, but doesn't do nearly as good a job while also contributing to the problem you've been analyzing. To solve your problem Riot would have to increase the number of jungle camps, remove jungle scaling, and simply operate under the assumption that junglers shouldn't be capable of clearing everything within its spawn time. It's not perfect, but it would help address the issue.
On March 28 2013 15:12 TheYango wrote: It would also go against their beginning of S3 goal of keeping laners from farming jungle too much, but at this point, off-laners are more starved than junglers are at those levels.
Part of the problem is that Riot went about increasing the value of the jungle the wrong way. The big difference between DotA and LoL's jungles, beyond a few mechanics, is that no jungler can actually fully clear their jungle. This is important, because it means lanes can take jungle farm without reducing the income of the jungler significantly, but it also means the jungler's income increases as their ability to clear the jungle increases.
The scaling jungle tries to simulate that organic increase, but doesn't do nearly as good a job while also contributing to the problem you've been analyzing. To solve your problem Riot would have to increase the number of jungle camps, remove jungle scaling, and simply operate under the assumption that junglers shouldn't be capable of clearing everything within its spawn time. It's not perfect, but it would help address the issue.
Without severely changing the map layout, you could add one camp to blue side opposite the inner turret, and one more to red side jungle. Not sure on what the ramifications of it would be though, although the only champ I can think of that could concievably clear every single jungle camp as well as lane farm would be AD tryn with multiple items.
On March 28 2013 12:46 HazMat wrote: No Lee Sin buff k
man i love lee sin i cry everytime i see no changes to him, its most fun champion in game but theres literally no reason to play him right now over any other jungler/toplaner
ad lee is still the manliest thing you can do, not to mention that it's about twice as fun as any other champion in the game!! believe in yourself and acquire greatness!! do not be afraid of failure, you're awesome!!!
Actually, the thing that I welcome the most in this patch is the AFK detector. On China server, the amount of AFK in champ select is so absurb. Not lets hope we can get this on CN soon . I think will wait for 3.04 on CN before start to play seriously again.
On March 28 2013 15:12 TheYango wrote: It would also go against their beginning of S3 goal of keeping laners from farming jungle too much, but at this point, off-laners are more starved than junglers are at those levels.
Part of the problem is that Riot went about increasing the value of the jungle the wrong way. The big difference between DotA and LoL's jungles, beyond a few mechanics, is that no jungler can actually fully clear their jungle. This is important, because it means lanes can take jungle farm without reducing the income of the jungler significantly, but it also means the jungler's income increases as their ability to clear the jungle increases.
The scaling jungle tries to simulate that organic increase, but doesn't do nearly as good a job while also contributing to the problem you've been analyzing. To solve your problem Riot would have to increase the number of jungle camps, remove jungle scaling, and simply operate under the assumption that junglers shouldn't be capable of clearing everything within its spawn time. It's not perfect, but it would help address the issue.
Without severely changing the map layout, you could add one camp to blue side opposite the inner turret, and one more to red side jungle. Not sure on what the ramifications of it would be though, although the only champ I can think of that could concievably clear every single jungle camp as well as lane farm would be AD tryn with multiple items.
You could also weaken the buffs, but reduce their spawn times to be closer to normal camps so that they can be farmed as "normal" camps.
i don't even see what the problem is with 1v2 lanes. why even change it?
part of the reason i asked about 1v2s and lane switches was because i was trying to figure out when it was best to use it. another reason is because i watched a chinese team send their adc+supp mid as part of their early game tactic... i think they warded blue before creeps popped, saw that the enemy started red, and then pushed out the lane so they could get a 4v3 to contest blue buff.
i think it's too early to call the tower change premature, and who knows, maybe the 1v3 tower dive will still work, but it'll just be a lot harder. eh.
This isn't even going to change anything about the 2v1 meta, it'll just make turret diving a lot more annoying. Don't know if anyone actually calculates turret damage when diving but I do it 100% on feeling, so this'll throw that off completely. Bad change imo.
The problem right now with 1v2s is that there isn't a whole lot of room for the 1v2 laner to actually influence what happens. 1v2/1v3 in DotA is *in theory* more suppressive, but there is actually more room for the off-laner to make plays or find other places to farm. Most of the options for alternative gameplay on the part of the off-laner are impeded by other aspects of LoL's gameplay. So by and large, the off-laner is at the whims of the enemy and the rest of his team, and doesn't have much room to improve his situation on his own.
At this point, I feel like Riot is at an impasse, because as it stands right now, off-laning is very non-interactive, and any of the options to make it more interactive would go against other design ideas put in place by Riot (massively revamping the jungle, drastically reducing early-game vision to increase the effectiveness of level 1/2 ganks from non-jungle heroes), and I worry that they may just try to get rid of the idea entirely.
1. Both junglers here. Have to share 3-4 waves of XP and gold, missing a lot due to harass and trying to clear it ASAP.
2. Enemy jungler here. Back off and lose several waves of XP/gold and possibly the tower. Or stay, probably get about half that XP and maybe a few minions worth of gold and probably save tower. But you'll die for it, and unless they misplay, you won't get anything.
3. Your jungler here. Without a ward, your jungler needs to hang around until the creep wave thins out and you get to level 3 to ensure you are safe. You lose XP and probably some CS.
4. Neither jungler here. You farm up and go on your merry way.
None of these are under your control, and all scenarios except 4 put you behind.
I think part of what makes it bad is there is literally nothing you can do even if you know 3 are top if your jungler is doing something else. You have access to wolves, but at level 1/2, most top laner's struggle to do it without losing too much HP, and in the time it takes to walk to wolves, you will lose tower/more xp&gold than what wolves are worth if they push.
Actually what if red/blue/minired/blue spawned every 80s, but only every 3rd camp or if 6 minutes have elasped since the last buff monster was killed would have a buff. Give them ~70% what a normal blue buff have in terms of HP/XP, but keep the gold reward the same. Then there is a choice between picking a very fast wriggles jungler who would be able to give mid lane more blues at the cost of having to spend a lot of time farming, or a slower jungler who gives lanes advantages through presence.
It also gives your solo something to do if the camp happens to be up, and the lane is either pushed, or it's too dangerous to stay.
Could change camp respawn times, to be faster, so there's no weird "timing gap" between waiting for camps to respawn; so there's a bigger cost for ganking after first clear.
On March 28 2013 17:58 {ToT}ColmA wrote: they should change something about adc, its not fun to always have the same 2-4 adc champs picked cause every other adc is so bad compared to them T_T
It's a lot better than what it was in peak of season 2. Pretty much all ADCs are viable right now; I don't really see the complaint. Popularity != imbalance.
On March 28 2013 17:41 Amui wrote: At the ~3:00 timing.
1. Both junglers here. Have to share 3-4 waves of XP and gold, missing a lot due to harass and trying to clear it ASAP.
2. Enemy jungler here. Back off and lose several waves of XP/gold and possibly the tower. Or stay, probably get about half that XP and maybe a few minions worth of gold and probably save tower. But you'll die for it, and unless they misplay, you won't get anything.
3. Your jungler here. Without a ward, your jungler needs to hang around until the creep wave thins out and you get to level 3 to ensure you are safe. You lose XP and probably some CS.
4. Neither jungler here. You farm up and go on your merry way.
None of these are under your control, and all scenarios except 4 put you behind.
I think part of what makes it bad is there is literally nothing you can do even if you know 3 are top if your jungler is doing something else. You have access to wolves, but at level 1/2, most top laner's struggle to do it without losing too much HP, and in the time it takes to walk to wolves, you will lose tower/more xp&gold than what wolves are worth if they push.
Actually what if red/blue/minired/blue spawned every 80s, but only every 3rd camp or if 6 minutes have elasped since the last buff monster was killed would have a buff. Give them ~70% what a normal blue buff have in terms of HP/XP, but keep the gold reward the same. Then there is a choice between picking a very fast wriggles jungler who would be able to give mid lane more blues at the cost of having to spend a lot of time farming, or a slower jungler who gives lanes advantages through presence.
It also gives your solo something to do if the camp happens to be up, and the lane is either pushed, or it's too dangerous to stay.
Except 2v1 lanes practically don't happen in solo queue, and in teamplay that means your jungler should be getting an advantage somewhere else to put the other team behind as well.
On March 28 2013 18:10 Serelitz wrote: Except 2v1 lanes practically don't happen in solo queue, and in teamplay that means your jungler should be getting an advantage somewhere else to put the other team behind as well.
It's still a fundamental gameplay problem if a common gameplay scenario is so non-interactive for one player in the game. Riot has expressed dislike for that sort of thing in the past. That it's not played in solo queue, or that one of your teammates can do something to compensate is irrelevant to the issue.
Like if two teams are both 3v1 diving on opposite sides of the map, it's "balanced" but the gameplay of the situation is equally shitty for both off-laners.
On March 28 2013 18:10 Serelitz wrote: Except 2v1 lanes practically don't happen in solo queue, and in teamplay that means your jungler should be getting an advantage somewhere else to put the other team behind as well.
It's still a fundamental gameplay problem if a common gameplay scenario is so non-interactive for one player in the game. Riot has expressed dislike for that sort of thing in the past. That it's not played in solo queue, or that one of your teammates can do something to compensate is irrelevant to the issue.
Like if two teams are both 3v1 diving on opposite sides of the map, it's "balanced" but the gameplay of the situation is equally shitty for both off-laners.
How is it irrelevant to the issue? There's plenty times that you're dependant on your teammates to help out your team, even back when it was higher level tower dives and your team picking up a dragon as a trade. Having to depend on your team isn't a bad thing whatsoever.
Besides, you're talking as if 3v1 dives are impossible to stop. It's by far not as common in Asia anymore because they've practiced against it and know how to prevent it, not just 'trade towers' like is happening in NA/EU LCS.
On the other hand, this change will affect every aspect of league, especially solo Q, whereas it's probably not even going to make a difference for professional 2v1 lanes.
On March 28 2013 13:05 thenexusp wrote: Just a note, nashor's tooth is now at the same cost it used to be before its mp5 was removed, except it still doesn't have mp5.
no AP Varus anymore for me!! ^^ nashor's too expensive.
Just gonna post here so people that don't go to tourney section wont miss this awesome game. WE vs TPA is coming up in 30 minutes from this post. Get hyped people!!! Its a StarWar League Playoff.
the turret damage increase is ridiculous. they still don't get that turret damage is one of the main problems for passive early game play. If they wanted to give 1on2 laners more options for counterplay then they shold give them more options for counterplay and not promote passivity.
dota minion aggro behaviour for example helps the 1on2/3 laner to counterplay and get some farm. the minions change their aggro directly when you issue an attack and not after you dealt damage. that way you can pull their minions on your side for a brief moment and squeeze in a few lasthits without getting actually hit by minions. another technique is pulling minion waves into neutral camps.
LoL could have such things too. maybe its not minion aggro but an item or a summoner or something. but certainly not making the game more passive.
Dunno bout you guys but early towers were too weak so 3v2 and 2v1 dives were way too easy with a creep wave meaning you have to pick a strong laner. Everyone is pigeonholed into the newest fotm champs which always seem to be strong in lane. A bunch of older guys don't see play because you can just bully push and dive or if their jungle might be around you aren't forced to do anything since you aren't risking anything by flat out winning lane. Like there is a huge incentive to pick the same old escape+strong laning phase (shen khazix zed renekton or bot lane whatever is strongest in lane) champs because you want to play agressive early to not get bulllied out but also need to be able to escape a gank possibly with a river ward (but doesnt help vs lane ganks)
The main issue is that it's hard for enemy team to punish the early 3v1 tower dive/push, without risking a shit ton of time/resource. Riot should've been looking for a way for teams to take reasonable counterplay to this early aggression rather than trying to get rid of it. So far the only counter play seems to be to do the exact same thing, and tradeoff towers.
There's multiple ways of counterplay to it, NA/EU meta is just lagging behind so it's not 'solved' like it is in asia. Duo mid with the support roaming for level 3, proper warding and having your jungler show for a 3v2 or executing the same 3v1 better than your opponent are all good solutions.
On March 28 2013 19:38 Caphe wrote: Just gonna post here so people that don't go to tourney section wont miss this awesome game. WE vs TPA is coming up in 30 minutes from this post. Get hyped people!!! Its a StarWar League Playoff.
Head to the tourney section for stream links!!
Sounds like an awesome game but there's no English cast available, or is there?
On March 28 2013 20:18 Serelitz wrote: There's multiple ways of counterplay to it, NA/EU meta is just lagging behind so it's not 'solved' like it is in asia. Duo mid with the support roaming for level 3, proper warding and having your jungler show for a 3v2 or executing the same 3v1 better than your opponent are all good solutions.
quick run through of your scenarios. mid+support in mid lane/roaming, you sacrifice mid farm for a chance to counter a tower getting taken down; and then leave your AD to 1v1 against "top (bruiser usually)". That's such a high risk play, even if you get first blood, and get a 1-0 exchange, it'll barely be worth it. Also considering ward openings, chances are, the 3 man push will spot any roaming shenanigans.
3v2 with jungler, sure can counter aggression, but it doesn't counter it so much as it creates stalemate.
executing 3v1 better than your opponents; this solution is more champion dependent than, actual skill or team dependence. I'm pretty sure riot doesn't want this issue to be a crux in champ select.
The best solution is to have junglers have to "sacrifice" something for doing that strategy; cuz right now as it is, junglers essentially get to do this 3v1 push for free, because they got nothing else better to do after their clear.
How do you sacrifice mid farm when your support roams? AD carries aren't THAT weak that they lose/die to anyone 1v1 early, especially not most mids. Why would your AD then be 1v1ing their toplaner instead of their midlaner? Why would it even matter if 'roaming shenanigans' gets spotted by wards (as opposed to you know, missing a support in lane) when it prevents the 3v1 dive?
3v2 creating a stalemate is usually in the 2 players' favour as well because their own 2v1 lane can put more pressure on the turret than the 3v2 lane can most of the time because of combined waveclear of 2 players.
edit: Oh you meant duo midlaner/support which is a stupid idea unless the enemy's ADC/supp swapped to midlane and your support isn't a poke support. I meant ADC/supp mid to clarify.
It's AD+support mid, generally, with your mid player 1v1ing against something in a side lane.
The problem with the 3v2s is that they have gone n favor of the '3' and not the 2+turret more often than not. When your jungler comes top to prevent the dive, and you get dived anyway and BOTH die... z_z But I feel that's more an issue of misplaying the counterdive and not because the turret is too weak.
On March 28 2013 17:24 TheYango wrote: The problem right now with 1v2s is that there isn't a whole lot of room for the 1v2 laner to actually influence what happens. 1v2/1v3 in DotA is *in theory* more suppressive, but there is actually more room for the off-laner to make plays or find other places to farm. Most of the options for alternative gameplay on the part of the off-laner are impeded by other aspects of LoL's gameplay. So by and large, the off-laner is at the whims of the enemy and the rest of his team, and doesn't have much room to improve his situation on his own.
At this point, I feel like Riot is at an impasse, because as it stands right now, off-laning is very non-interactive, and any of the options to make it more interactive would go against other design ideas put in place by Riot (massively revamping the jungle, drastically reducing early-game vision to increase the effectiveness of level 1/2 ganks from non-jungle heroes), and I worry that they may just try to get rid of the idea entirely.
Would that even matter though. In dota you get two fundamentally different offlaners. You get the ones that can go farm the jungle(Which is what you suggest riot tries) and then you get the ones that don't actually require large amounts of farm to impact the game(Clock comes to mind). The latter is impossible in League is it not? The way the game is designed you don't really have champs that don't require farm to have a significant impact on the game. Supports are the closest thing and only a select few of them have large impacts(Thresh comes to mind).
Now I could be completely wrong and there might be champs which fit this situation. If that is true then why haven't we seen people picking these less farm dependent champs into the 1v2 role.
On March 28 2013 13:05 thenexusp wrote: Just a note, nashor's tooth is now at the same cost it used to be before its mp5 was removed, except it still doesn't have mp5.
no AP Varus anymore for me!! ^^ nashor's too expensive.
I should have abused it more when I had the chance...
Riot why so mean, buff/nerf and now it's worse than before. =(
Yes, you get the traditional Karma skin for free if you own her, which looks as she does pre-patch.
People have been picking champions that have decent waveclear + don't need the most items to do decent into 1v2 lanes. Renekton (only needs tanky items and he gets a bit tanky from his ult) and Rumble (only needs his magic pen items to do decent damage) are prime examples.
Other picks that have decent escape / survivability / splitpushing ability in long lanes without a turret being picked as well like Elise/Singed/Shen.
Nashor's tooth nerf feels really dumb to me. It was fine on anything except Kayle so why not just nerf Kayle then? If Riot considered her out of line anyway. Just feels like Riot is nerfing whatever is on Voyboy's stream without actually paying attention to better players in asia and what those are doing.
I wonder when Master Yi becomes viable as a solo top. So many solo tops have been nerfed after all, and he does the whole splitpush-a-turret-and-get-the-hell-out-of-there -thing better than almost anyone. It doesn't even matter that his teamfighting is ass, he can just WHOPOPOP and kill your turret and dart off all game. I also don't think there's many champions that defeat him 1v1 either hmm...
On March 28 2013 21:55 Shikyo wrote: I wonder when Master Yi becomes viable as a solo top. So many solo tops have been nerfed after all, and he does the whole splitpush-a-turret-and-get-the-hell-out-of-there -thing better than almost anyone. It doesn't even matter that his teamfighting is ass, he can just WHOPOPOP and kill your turret and dart off all game. I also don't think there's many champions that defeat him 1v1 either hmm...
On March 28 2013 21:55 Shikyo wrote: I wonder when Master Yi becomes viable as a solo top. So many solo tops have been nerfed after all, and he does the whole splitpush-a-turret-and-get-the-hell-out-of-there -thing better than almost anyone. It doesn't even matter that his teamfighting is ass, he can just WHOPOPOP and kill your turret and dart off all game. I also don't think there's many champions that defeat him 1v1 either hmm...
You will find that practically every top laner is able to beat AD yi while drinking tea, masturbating and doing their laundry.
I think another reason why more kills happen in doter is because you need to calculate many more things (including RNG) while in League it's very easy to see when you're about to lose a trade/whatever. I realize that League is at it's core a different game, but some changes I think need to be made to ensure it's longevity as an e-sport (this may be subjective, but I don't actually play anymore because of how boring the game has become and I only watch because of people I'm invested in. Thoughts?)
Quality player is streaming zac on PBE, looks ridiculously fun. His passive is so troll, bouncebouncebounce ult is hilarious, and that 1100 range dash is super strong.
On March 28 2013 20:18 wussleeQ wrote: zac pretty crazy in pbe lol. spammable % damage on manaless champ? craaaazy
Until you realize it (and all of his skills for that matter) costs a shit ton of health and unless you are picking up every blob that drops (which is hard to do when things get hectic) you're going to lose a lot of duels
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
Awwww... you made things rational. I though we were just saying opinions and I wanted to throw one out for the new guard.
In general, I love all the graphical updates because I think they seriously improve on some of Riot's old shortcomings in art. However, I do totally understand being attached to a certain lore or feel and not wanting it to go away. Despite not being a Trundle player, I am going to miss the Plague Troll lore because it was cool and unique and a great play off of the "trolls regenerate" trope. If they changed Leona's lore, for example, I'd be out of my mind with rage.
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
Don't doubt man, Karma had a lot of.... fans.
Edit: Mods plz don't ban.
The day the Mods ban puns is the day Asmo quits and leaves TL forever.
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
Don't doubt man, Karma had a lot of.... fans.
Edit: Mods plz don't ban.
The day the Mods ban puns is the day Asmo quits and leaves TL forever.
On March 28 2013 22:46 DrunkenOne wrote: Quality player is streaming zac on PBE, looks ridiculously fun. His passive is so troll, bouncebouncebounce ult is hilarious, and that 1100 range dash is super strong.
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
As an old Karma fan, I really like the new one. Love her look, her kit looks boss, haven't read the lore.
Really excited to play her when I get back from Virginia.
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
Don't doubt man, Karma had a lot of.... fans.
Edit: Mods plz don't ban.
The day the Mods ban puns is the day Asmo quits and leaves TL forever.
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
Don't doubt man, Karma had a lot of.... fans.
Edit: Mods plz don't ban.
The day the Mods ban puns is the day Asmo quits and leaves TL forever.
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
Don't doubt man, Karma had a lot of.... fans.
Edit: Mods plz don't ban.
The day the Mods ban puns is the day Asmo quits and leaves TL forever.
Updates: 06:00 PDT - We have encountered a critical issue during our maintenance and will be extending our down time to ensure the issue is resolved before the servers are back online.
So we really have no idea when this is gona happen.
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
Don't doubt man, Karma had a lot of.... fans.
Edit: Mods plz don't ban.
The day the Mods ban puns is the day Asmo quits and leaves TL forever.
No, it's the day I become the LoL IdrA, but without the skill. BANS FOR DAYS. Only reason I don't get perma'd is because they need me to make the writing deadlines. =D
About the change to turret damage: turrets now start out at 10% more damage to champions, and increase at 5% more per shot. This means it's easy to calculate the increase in damage this entails. Even with 5 consecutive shots on the same champion, this means an additional 5*10 + 4*5 + 3*5 + 2*5 + 5 = 100% of base damage. + Show Spoiler +
I wanted to phrase it as "an additional 100% damage", but that could be misleading. This is hard to phrase unambiguously, but if you understand what is being calculated, then you understand the idea.
This means 5 shots of the new system is not even as much damage as 6 shots of the old system (it's more like 5.5 shots, if you think about it).
Spirit Visage seems like a must buy for Zac, anyway to buff his sustain to make up for his high health costs seems like a no brainer. Also he likes the tankiness since we wants to get into the middle of a fight.
Edit: Agreed picking up the blobs are kind of a pain in the ass, but it still wouldn't be bad for the ones you are able to pick up in a middle of a fight.
On March 28 2013 23:37 mordek wrote: Why would SV not be useful on Zac?
The passive, not the item, SV would be a fine buy. Chasing blobs are still not conducive to fighting/dueling/playing anything at all. Maybe if they spawned in the direction he's moving like Draven's axes, but instead they seem to just fly out in mostly random directions when you want to stay in melee range. It's a counter-intuitive playstyle from my point of view.
From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
On March 28 2013 23:37 mordek wrote: Why would SV not be useful on Zac?
The passive, not the item, SV would be a fine buy. Chasing blobs are still not conducive to fighting/dueling/playing anything at all. Maybe if they spawned in the direction he's moving like Draven's axes, but instead they seem to just fly out in mostly random directions when you want to stay in melee range. It's a counter-intuitive playstyle from my point of view.
wasn't someone complaining not too long ago that champs these days are too easy and straightforward to play?
On March 28 2013 22:51 AsmodeusXI wrote: I think Karma went from looking goofy as shit to pretty damn awesome.
FLAME ON.
The old mode was pretty low quality and had the semi-cartoony style of all early LoL champions. The new one is much nicer, cleaner, and more in line with the new style of champions (that is, semi-realistic for humans and badass in general).
However, like Trundle, the new model's overall feel and lore are different from the old one, so fans of the former probably don't like the newer. Just how things are.
The whole lot of 10 people don't like it, oh no ;O
Don't doubt man, Karma had a lot of.... fans.
Edit: Mods plz don't ban.
Holy shit I just woke up and my day is already a confirmed win
On March 28 2013 23:37 mordek wrote: Why would SV not be useful on Zac?
The passive, not the item, SV would be a fine buy. Chasing blobs are still not conducive to fighting/dueling/playing anything at all. Maybe if they spawned in the direction he's moving like Draven's axes, but instead they seem to just fly out in mostly random directions when you want to stay in melee range. It's a counter-intuitive playstyle from my point of view.
wasn't someone complaining not too long ago that champs these days are too easy and straightforward to play?
There's a difference between champs with more complex kits and ones that are just not intuitive to play. Zac's health costs are so high because they factor in the healing he get from his blobs, but it just isn't feasible to pick up every blob in a fight when they are just popping out in random directions.
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
Oh yeah of course, but so many people complain about the lack or itemizing MR (RIP Force of Nature) when Spirit Visage is a pretty good buy on most champs even if they don't use the passive.
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
On March 28 2013 23:37 mordek wrote: Why would SV not be useful on Zac?
The passive, not the item, SV would be a fine buy. Chasing blobs are still not conducive to fighting/dueling/playing anything at all. Maybe if they spawned in the direction he's moving like Draven's axes, but instead they seem to just fly out in mostly random directions when you want to stay in melee range. It's a counter-intuitive playstyle from my point of view.
wasn't someone complaining not too long ago that champs these days are too easy and straightforward to play?
Counter-intuitive <> Complex. Just because a champ is hard to play doesn't make it good. His passive/resource system is, in my eyes, pretty poor design. On one hand, he wants to jump in, tank, and stick to targets. On the other, he wants to run around and pick up blobs to, you know, not die and kill himself. There are a handful of solutions to the problem, and I'm sure Riot will figure out one that they like, but as of right now it seems bad.
To give an example, it would be similar to a squishy burst mage like Xerath or Brand having to be in melee range to have their abilities' CD begin. Sure you could make it work, but it would be rather bad.
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Depends who the ad-s are.If it's zed/kog/varus for example mr wouldn't be useless.
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
This sounds like a rare exception that you would take into account. In that situation, yes, you would buy health+armor items and proceed to win the game...
On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote: Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team.
I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
On March 28 2013 23:56 Crownlol wrote: Why the random Rumble nerf? That seems like it'll hurt him pretty bad- suddenly one of your spells has no burst.
Not really that random, Rumble had the highest soloq winrate and has been seen a ton in pro play recently. Equalizer was the core of this problem as it probably bursted a little too hard and made his 1v1 and even his 1v2 potential really strong. I don't like removing the upfront damage completely, could have been turned down a bit. Maybe just an increaseing the CD would have been enough, it is really short.
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
This sounds like a rare exception that you would take into account. In that situation, yes, you would buy health+armor items and proceed to win the game...
Another important factor is that cost effectivity is not an absolute number, it needs to be viewed in comparison to other items. A lot of items are at more than 100% Gold efficiency, because gold efficiency is usually calculated in comparison to base items, and finished items tend to be better than those. So just breaking 100% gold efficiency does not necessarily make an item good, you need to be more gold efficient than other options for that.
in the one pbe game i played i went something like SV, sorc shoes, randuins, liandrys, the jungling spellvamp item and dcap. not in that order though but he felt really strong but then again... this is pbe lol.
According to the patch notes, rumble's ult DoT damage starts at 0s instead of 0.5s, which means that the burst isn't completely removed, just lessened (though quite significantly)
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
This sounds like a rare exception that you would take into account. In that situation, yes, you would buy health+armor items and proceed to win the game...
Another important factor is that cost effectivity is not an absolute number, it needs to be viewed in comparison to other items. A lot of items are at more than 100% Gold efficiency, because gold efficiency is usually calculated in comparison to base items, and finished items tend to be better than those. So just breaking 100% gold efficiency does not necessarily make an item good, you need to be more gold efficient than other options for that.
I'd agree and it's good to bring that up. However, his resource system revolves around health so except for the all AD team that makes MR not worth I can't see when SV is not core on Zac.
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff).
It just has 0 effectiveness.
Regarding fortify, I thought I remembered Riot saying they didn't like how it promoted passivity but it could also have been removed because no one used it.
On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote: Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team.
I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.*
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff).
It just has 0 effectiveness.
We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats
On March 28 2013 23:37 mordek wrote: Why would SV not be useful on Zac?
The passive, not the item, SV would be a fine buy. Chasing blobs are still not conducive to fighting/dueling/playing anything at all. Maybe if they spawned in the direction he's moving like Draven's axes, but instead they seem to just fly out in mostly random directions when you want to stay in melee range. It's a counter-intuitive playstyle from my point of view.
wasn't someone complaining not too long ago that champs these days are too easy and straightforward to play?
Yeah but this is different, the blobs shouldnt be random and difficult and frustrating to utilize?
unrelated: is "thereisnourflevel" causing any issues for anyone else? I get an error message with amumu in the background
Mannnnn I gotta wait a week for them to reduce dat Zac price. Req I definitely see where you're coming from on dem blobs, we'll see how it actually translates into real games.
On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote: Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team.
I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.*
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff).
It just has 0 effectiveness.
We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats
CALCULUS HOMEWORK
Given that fraction of incoming damage is p physical and (1-p) magical, and that health costs 2.6g per point, armor 18g per point, and MR 18g per point, and that your base health is 1200, your base armor is 60, and your base MR is 30, what fraction of your gold should you spend on health, armor, and MR?
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
Agree and agreed with Riot's turret buff. These nerfed S3 turrets have taken a lot of the positioning out of the game. Too easy to just mob a lane and push down the turret in one dive. Turret diving should be a risk, and right now it's too much reward for too little risk.
On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote: Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team.
I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.*
*I have never actually played Zac
On March 29 2013 00:27 obesechicken13 wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff).
It just has 0 effectiveness.
We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats
CALCULUS HOMEWORK
Given that fraction of incoming damage is p physical and (1-p) magical, and that health costs 2.6g per point, armor 18g per point, and MR 18g per point, and that your base health is 1200, your base armor is 60, and your base MR is 30, what fraction of your gold should you spend on health, armor, and MR?
Seems like a problem better solved with simplex, or some other optimizations (I've always been interested in looking into something league related, but anyhow...).
Say you're not running LS quints as an AD carry. When do you guys prioritize getting a vamp or cutlass? How does it vary from champ to champ? I'm curious on the timing of LS in lane.
On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote: Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team.
I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.*
*I have never actually played Zac
On March 29 2013 00:27 obesechicken13 wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff).
It just has 0 effectiveness.
We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats
CALCULUS HOMEWORK
Given that fraction of incoming damage is p physical and (1-p) magical, and that health costs 2.6g per point, armor 18g per point, and MR 18g per point, and that your base health is 1200, your base armor is 60, and your base MR is 30, what fraction of your gold should you spend on health, armor, and MR?
You could make a bunch of equations and then solve.
unknowns are health armor and mr. total health is base health + items health total unmitigated physical damage, armor, total unmitigated magic damage, mr = total mitigated damage total gold = gold spent on health, armor, mr ...
Then use basic algebra, or that stuff they taught us in linear algebra to solve the system of linear equations. I wouldn't do the math though. Sounds useless once you consider other confounding factors.
On March 29 2013 00:58 mordek wrote: Say you're not running LS quints as an AD carry. When do you guys prioritize getting a vamp or cutlass? How does it vary from champ to champ? I'm curious on the timing of LS in lane.
When I play on my noobstomp account I go bravesword2->vamp stick immediately for all adc
Quick question - and maybe this has been discussed here before:
Is there a place for Support Ashe? Sure, there are probably certain match-ups that don't work, but purely from a kit standpoint:
-AoE Slow -Consistent single target slow -Mini-Clairvoyence -Initiate with arrow stays useful regardless of farm -Her passive is actually useful, as sporadic harrassment will allow her time to build her crit chance.
On March 29 2013 01:22 StrigHT wrote: Quick question - and maybe this has been discussed here before:
Is there a place for Support Ashe? Sure, there are probably certain match-ups that don't work, but purely from a kit standpoint:
-AoE Slow -Consistent single target slow -Mini-Clairvoyence -Initiate with arrow stays useful regardless of farm -Her passive is actually useful, as sporadic harrassment will allow her time to build her crit chance.
Have any of you tried this? What holds it back?
People have tried it. It's not conventional support. Other champs are built for support.
Buffed turret damage combined with limitless vision is going to make pro games even less eventful. Watching american LCS after these changes hit is likely to be less entertaining than watching paint dry.
Also I'm not sure completely killing off both rumble and hecarim is a good thing
On March 29 2013 01:22 StrigHT wrote: Quick question - and maybe this has been discussed here before:
Is there a place for Support Ashe? Sure, there are probably certain match-ups that don't work, but purely from a kit standpoint:
-AoE Slow -Consistent single target slow -Mini-Clairvoyence -Initiate with arrow stays useful regardless of farm -Her passive is actually useful, as sporadic harrassment will allow her time to build her crit chance.
Have any of you tried this? What holds it back?
She's really squishy, requires some attack speed to be really useful (i.e. farm), and takes up ramp up time. Her poke is nowhere like sona's or lulu's, and is harder than either of the other two to not push the lane while poking. If you max volley first you'll have to wait a long while before you're actually slowing significant amounts, and if you max frost shot first you'll have a 15 second cd on volley. That just leaves her as effectively an ult bot and free clavoriance with no real peel for your ad for the first half of the game, and you add that anyone with hard cc or a gap closer in bot lane will destroy her or force your ad to be denied cs means she doesn't exactly shine as a support.
On March 29 2013 01:22 StrigHT wrote: Quick question - and maybe this has been discussed here before:
Is there a place for Support Ashe? Sure, there are probably certain match-ups that don't work, but purely from a kit standpoint:
-AoE Slow -Consistent single target slow -Mini-Clairvoyence -Initiate with arrow stays useful regardless of farm -Her passive is actually useful, as sporadic harrassment will allow her time to build her crit chance.
Have any of you tried this? What holds it back?
I've tried it. I would say that it's not bad. The biggest issue I would say is that Lulu exists and she just does most of the things that Ashe does better, except initiate. If you have initiation I don't see why you would ever pick Ashe over Lulu.
Other downsides is that she is quite level dependent. You need to level volley to be useful in lane, but to have any kind of peeling power you need decent levels in the slow. Because of the lack of cc on early levels and immobility aggressive supports can give you a very hard time. Ashe vs leona is just not fun.
Third issue is that you need to have someone to be able to peel for your ad. Against assassins with gap closers you're just not going to be as useful as a Lulu later in the game.
I'd say it's not bad, just very situational. If you get into a position where you want a harass heavy lane, you are facing a team with one or two bruisers and you either can't pick Lulu or need initiation Ashe is probably a good pick.
On March 29 2013 01:30 IntoTheWow wrote: Do we know when servers are coming up?
6 hours after server maintenance started in the RoG snooping into their logs.
On March 29 2013 01:43 ticklishmusic wrote: btw
zac gets bigger the more hp you build on him (or as he levels)
im not sure
HP. Someone did a 6 warmogs Zac a few days ago. It'd be fun to have lulu ulted Cho with Dominion buff vs 6 warmogs lulu ulted Zac with dominion buff. Gozilla!
On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote: Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team.
I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.*
*I have never actually played Zac
On March 29 2013 00:27 obesechicken13 wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff).
It just has 0 effectiveness.
We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats
CALCULUS HOMEWORK
Given that fraction of incoming damage is p physical and (1-p) magical, and that health costs 2.6g per point, armor 18g per point, and MR 18g per point, and that your base health is 1200, your base armor is 60, and your base MR is 30, what fraction of your gold should you spend on health, armor, and MR?
You could make a bunch of equations and then solve.
unknowns are health armor and mr. total health is base health + items health total unmitigated physical damage, armor, total unmitigated magic damage, mr = total mitigated damage total gold = gold spent on health, armor, mr ...
Then use basic algebra, or that stuff they taught us in linear algebra to solve the system of linear equations. I wouldn't do the math though. Sounds useless once you consider other confounding factors.
Here are my thoughts on how to best approach this problem. It could be an interesting thought exercise, I kind of doubt it would yield any real meaningful results though.
This would work by calculating a bunch of functions (g, p, and m, ...) before hand then optimizing based off of them.
Variables x1= health ; x2= armour ; x3= mr g= estimated gold at time = t ; p= estimated phys damage at time = t ; m= estimated magic dmg at time = t
Objective Function Maximize: Z= x1+ x2+ x3
Constraints 2.6x1+ 18x2+ 18x3 <= g ;total expenses less than total gold (some linear function involving ehp vs physical) >= p ;make sure will survive physical damage (some linear function involving ehp vs magic) >= m ; make sure will survive magic damage ...
Some thoughts: -make x1, x2, and x3 all fractions ie, you should spend x1% of gold on health -- as it is now it's just spend x1 gold on health -make p and m fractions of total damage; total damage would be a function of t, and depend on what you're playing -g could be a function of t, that would involve some rate that you could calculate yourself based on: position (solo top, solo mid, ect), passive gold gain, last hitting ability, ect
-This would change what the optimal amount spent for each player, each role, and champ would be. So a pro player who might have a much higher gold value at a given time would get different stats
-a lot of functions would probably be piecewise, could account for power swings ie, if you could find that death cap was bought at a certain point in time on average there would be a spike in the m function at that point
-can add constraints based on regens
-maybe make it overall item buys, would be position specific by saying I want y% of damage stats and (1-y)% defense stats or something of the like, could account for different players and different levels of skill
-maybe maximize ehp?
Anyhow, I could go on. This is a very basic form that would obviously need a lot of work and research (research would need data, ie Riot data or parsable replays or something). As I said it probably wouldn't yield any interesting results because it's pretty intuitive anyhow, plus there are so many variables to consider that it would have to be calculated on the fly. Either that or you'd have to calculate a whole bunch of scenarios before hand. Maybe it could be useful as some sort of post game analysis, I dunno.
On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote: Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team.
I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.*
*I have never actually played Zac
On March 29 2013 00:27 obesechicken13 wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff).
It just has 0 effectiveness.
We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats
CALCULUS HOMEWORK
Given that fraction of incoming damage is p physical and (1-p) magical, and that health costs 2.6g per point, armor 18g per point, and MR 18g per point, and that your base health is 1200, your base armor is 60, and your base MR is 30, what fraction of your gold should you spend on health, armor, and MR?
You could make a bunch of equations and then solve.
unknowns are health armor and mr. total health is base health + items health total unmitigated physical damage, armor, total unmitigated magic damage, mr = total mitigated damage total gold = gold spent on health, armor, mr ...
Then use basic algebra, or that stuff they taught us in linear algebra to solve the system of linear equations. I wouldn't do the math though. Sounds useless once you consider other confounding factors.
Here are my thoughts on how to best approach this problem. It could be an interesting thought exercise, I kind of doubt it would yield any real meaningful results though.
This would work by calculating a bunch of functions (g, p, and m, ...) before hand then optimizing based off of them.
Variables x1= health ; x2= armour ; x3= mr g= estimated gold at time = t ; p= estimated phys damage at time = t ; m= estimated magic dmg at time = t
Objective Function Maximize: Z= x1+ x2+ x3
Constraints 2.6x1+ 18x2+ 18x3 <= g ;total expenses less than total gold (some linear function involving ehp vs physical) >= p ;make sure will survive physical damage (some linear function involving ehp vs magic) >= m ; make sure will survive magic damage ...
Some thoughts: -make x1, x2, and x3 all fractions ie, you should spend x1% of gold on health -- as it is now it's just spend x1 gold on health -make p and m fractions of total damage; total damage would be a function of t, and depend on what you're playing -g could be a function of t, that would involve some rate that you could calculate yourself based on: position (solo top, solo mid, ect), passive gold gain, last hitting ability, ect
-This would change what the optimal amount spent for each player, each role, and champ would be. So a pro player who might have a much higher gold value at a given time would get different stats
-a lot of functions would probably be piecewise, could account for power swings ie, if you could find that death cap was bought at a certain point in time on average there would be a spike in the m function at that point
-can add constraints based on regens
-maybe make it overall item buys, would be position specific by saying I want y% of damage stats and (1-y)% defense stats or something of the like, could account for different players and different levels of skill
-maybe maximize ehp?
Anyhow, I could go on. This is a very basic form that would obviously need a lot of work and research (research would need data, ie Riot data or parsable replays or something). As I said it probably wouldn't yield any interesting results because it's pretty intuitive anyhow, plus there are so many variables to consider that it would have to be calculated on the fly. Either that or you'd have to calculate a whole bunch of scenarios before hand. Maybe it could be useful as some sort of post game analysis, I dunno.
Servers pls come back!
Wrinkles in your plan:
- the equations for ehp are inherently nonlinear, due to having to multiply health and armor together. - Your objective function seems wrong, you're generally not trying to maximize the sum of your health, armor and MR (in this case, just buy health! It's 7 times cheaper) - You can't simply say you want to survive the physical damage and the magic damage, you have to be able to survive the sum of both. (e.g. if you have 2000 physical ehp and 1000 magic ehp, taking 1500 physical and 300 magic will still kill you)
There are several ways to frame the problem: 1) Given you will take X physical and Y magic damage, what is the cheapest way to buy health, armor, and MR to survive (burst damage) 2) Given you will take X% physical and (100-X)% magic damage, and given a budget G, how much health, armor and MR do you buy to survive the most damage before dying. (dps) 3) Given you will take X_p physical damage upfront and X_m magic damage upfront and then Y_p physical damage per second and Y_m magic damage per second, and a budget G, how much health, armor and MR do you buy to survive the longest time (maybe a more accurate representation of how real battles go)
For case (1), the equation looks like this: h is health, a is armor, m is MR, h_0 is base health, a_0 is base armor, m_0 is base armor, X is incoming physical damage, Y is incoming magic damage
minimize 2.6h + 18a + 18m given X*100/(100+a_0+a) + Y*100/(100+m_0+m) < h_0 + h
2.6 H, 18A, and 18M all imply that you're buying basic items to achieve your maximization of EHP, which ALSO isn't realistic, since combined items have better gold efficiency than that (for the most part)
On March 29 2013 02:58 sylverfyre wrote: 2.6 H, 18A, and 18M all imply that you're buying basic items to achieve your maximization of EHP, which ALSO isn't realistic, since combined items have better gold efficiency than that (for the most part)
It's an okay approximation, since we really only care about the relative values of health vs armor and it's not like health gets massively more efficient in combined items than armor (although MR might want a word with me...)
it's also mostly an academic exercise anyway, no one really expects to be able to apply it to real game situations
Instead of working out the differential equations the best way to do this is find the points where gold cost of hp equals gold cost of armour+mr. I did the calculations pre giants belt nerf and because hp is so cheap because mr and armour are weighted due to possibility of shields it was like for example 3.6k hp = 150 armour and mr and like early on when you have like say 50ish armour and mr it might be like 2.2k or something which is why early warmogs rushes were used so much. (hp scales WAY more than mr and armour per level)
I think at 0 magic resist and armour it was like 500 or 1k at the point where health is always better than resists and after that you just keep upgrading 100 armour+mr = 1k hp or whatever it was and keep getting 1/2 of each to maximize ehp.
its more practical than the differential equations because you don't have to do any calculations if you just memorize a few benchmark points from napkin math.
you also want to weight the armour/mr balance toward the magic/physical damage intake in the same ratio I think because each point of resists adds the same amount of EHP. ORRR just stack the shit out of armour and try to instantly burst their AP carry in every fight gggg
edit: taking 20 and the cost of armour mr since there are no really cost effective full resist items and mostly negatron and chains vest items kinda suck now anyway and 2.63~ as the value of hp its 1500 hp = 100 mr+armour so e.g 2k hp and 50 armour and mr 3k hp 1500 hp is 5.25 ehp (each point of armour+mr is 1% hp-->ehp against magic+physical damage) 2k hp 150 armour mr =5k ehp hp slightly better here thats where I got my 2.2k number from I guess
but if you average it to 2.75k hp and 100 armour mr you get slightly more ehp. (5.5k)
On March 28 2013 23:57 ticklishmusic wrote: Zac has a decent amount of mobility with his spells, so he can try and position himself to grab more blobs.
But again, at the same time, you're wasting spells hunting down blobs rather than fighting or protecting your team.
I know I'm nitpicking and being a downer, but I was really excited for Zac and I'm just frustrated that this flaw is going to make him damn near unplayable in my eyes. Like, if you run in and use a QWE combo (whatever order is best, I'm guessing EWQ), you're out 12% life (probably doing more damage to yourself than they did to you) and they get to just attack you while you scramble around trying to pick up blobs.
True. I'm thinking the way his ult works is that it does damage to nearby enemies, so you could in theory just hop to blobs near champions or something-- you have 4 bounces, so there's quite a few pathways you could take in a X range containing Y blobs and Z champions. His model can change shape/size, so that helps him grab stuff too.*
*I have never actually played Zac
On March 29 2013 00:27 obesechicken13 wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:53 101toss wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:49 thenexusp wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:46 onlywonderboy wrote:
On March 28 2013 23:43 mordek wrote: From the lolwiki: "The passive must have at least a value of 28g for Spirit Visage to be gold efficient." Even if blobs are difficult to pick up, it makes each one you do more effective.
People always seem to forget how cheap Spirit Visage actually is. Even if you're not utilizing the passive it's already incredibly close to cost effective.
its cost-efficiency shouldn't be evaluated in a vacuum though. Like, I'd have trouble buying it even on someone like mundo if the enemy had a 5x AD team.
mr is worth 0 gold vs a 5ad team
Nah. MR is still worth 100% gold vs a riven riven riven riven tryn team. (with no wits end or sunfire cape or stuff).
It just has 0 effectiveness.
We should implement an "effective gold" system which values AD/AP/MR/Armor based on the opponent's damage types (like fine their total DPS and find what percentage is physical/magical) trololol. #lolstats
CALCULUS HOMEWORK
Given that fraction of incoming damage is p physical and (1-p) magical, and that health costs 2.6g per point, armor 18g per point, and MR 18g per point, and that your base health is 1200, your base armor is 60, and your base MR is 30, what fraction of your gold should you spend on health, armor, and MR?
You could make a bunch of equations and then solve.
unknowns are health armor and mr. total health is base health + items health total unmitigated physical damage, armor, total unmitigated magic damage, mr = total mitigated damage total gold = gold spent on health, armor, mr ...
Then use basic algebra, or that stuff they taught us in linear algebra to solve the system of linear equations. I wouldn't do the math though. Sounds useless once you consider other confounding factors.
Here are my thoughts on how to best approach this problem. It could be an interesting thought exercise, I kind of doubt it would yield any real meaningful results though.
This would work by calculating a bunch of functions (g, p, and m, ...) before hand then optimizing based off of them.
Variables x1= health ; x2= armour ; x3= mr g= estimated gold at time = t ; p= estimated phys damage at time = t ; m= estimated magic dmg at time = t
Objective Function Maximize: Z= x1+ x2+ x3
Constraints 2.6x1+ 18x2+ 18x3 <= g ;total expenses less than total gold (some linear function involving ehp vs physical) >= p ;make sure will survive physical damage (some linear function involving ehp vs magic) >= m ; make sure will survive magic damage ...
Some thoughts: -make x1, x2, and x3 all fractions ie, you should spend x1% of gold on health -- as it is now it's just spend x1 gold on health -make p and m fractions of total damage; total damage would be a function of t, and depend on what you're playing -g could be a function of t, that would involve some rate that you could calculate yourself based on: position (solo top, solo mid, ect), passive gold gain, last hitting ability, ect
-This would change what the optimal amount spent for each player, each role, and champ would be. So a pro player who might have a much higher gold value at a given time would get different stats
-a lot of functions would probably be piecewise, could account for power swings ie, if you could find that death cap was bought at a certain point in time on average there would be a spike in the m function at that point
-can add constraints based on regens
-maybe make it overall item buys, would be position specific by saying I want y% of damage stats and (1-y)% defense stats or something of the like, could account for different players and different levels of skill
-maybe maximize ehp?
Anyhow, I could go on. This is a very basic form that would obviously need a lot of work and research (research would need data, ie Riot data or parsable replays or something). As I said it probably wouldn't yield any interesting results because it's pretty intuitive anyhow, plus there are so many variables to consider that it would have to be calculated on the fly. Either that or you'd have to calculate a whole bunch of scenarios before hand. Maybe it could be useful as some sort of post game analysis, I dunno.
Servers pls come back!
Wrinkles in your plan:
- the equations for ehp are inherently nonlinear, due to having to multiply health and armor together. - Your objective function seems wrong, you're generally not trying to maximize the sum of your health, armor and MR (in this case, just buy health! It's 7 times cheaper) - You can't simply say you want to survive the physical damage and the magic damage, you have to be able to survive the sum of both. (e.g. if you have 2000 physical ehp and 1000 magic ehp, taking 1500 physical and 300 magic will still kill you)
There are several ways to frame the problem: 1) Given you will take X physical and Y magic damage, what is the cheapest way to buy health, armor, and MR to survive (burst damage) 2) Given you will take X% physical and (100-X)% magic damage, and given a budget G, how much health, armor and MR do you buy to survive the most damage before dying. (dps) 3) Given you will take X_p physical damage upfront and X_m magic damage upfront and then Y_p physical damage per second and Y_m magic damage per second, and a budget G, how much health, armor and MR do you buy to survive the longest time (maybe a more accurate representation of how real battles go)
For case (1), the equation looks like this: h is health, a is armor, m is MR, h_0 is base health, a_0 is base armor, m_0 is base armor, X is incoming physical damage, Y is incoming magic damage
minimize 2.6h + 18a + 18m given X*100/(100+a_0+a) + Y*100/(100+m_0+m) < h_0 + h
1) Yeah I was thinking about the problem of ehp as I had it, you'd either have to have some sort of linear approximation or just put in a value and calculate to get an estimate, then take the value you get out and put that in for the ehp, run again to get a better approximation, ect.
2) Yeah, this is just a rough outline of what I wanted, I have to brush up on simplex :p (all the values should be bounded by the constraints though? I only gave a few constraints). Also, possibly the biggest flaw in my reasoning was taking a maximize approach for survivability, whereas I should have been looking at spending the least possible, which I think makes a lot more practical sense.
3) This could be easily added in
I really like the framing of different scenarios (burst vs dps).
X and Y could be polynomial functions of t and then have coefficients based on team comps or individual champions, (X vs a graves might be: X= 12t^2+5t+2 and vs sona might be X= t^2+t+1 or something, up to a maximum).
Anyhow, I like the simplex approach because of it's variability and ease of change. The biggest problem would be figuring out ehp in some fashion.
We have potentially found the root cause and are working on a solution that will allow us to deploy patch 3.5 as planned." https://twitter.com/LoLStatus
does this mean that they are going through with the patch instead of reverting it and thus the servers will be down for even longer than they already have been? :/
On March 29 2013 03:44 Frolossus wrote: "LoL Status @lolstatus 1m
We have potentially found the root cause and are working on a solution that will allow us to deploy patch 3.5 as planned." https://twitter.com/LoLStatus
does this mean that they are going through with the patch instead of reverting it and thus the servers will be down for even longer than they already have been? :/
I think it will just be a quick fix then servers back up? I downloaded the patch and was in game, we were just stuck in lobby for like 10min and ended up being a 3v3 cause people couldn't connect lol
The turret change is only really a big impact on the very early level dives that you pretty much only see in organized play considering a lot of times the one tanking the shots gets away with about 10-20% health. I really don't think it's going to be much of an impact beyond that, but I still don't understand why nerfing those strategies is a goal of theirs. I understand it's a pretty exploitative strategy, but it has counters and if you know your opponent is going to dive you can score huge countergank kills going 2v3 if just your jungler shows up. As others have mentioned some of the most frustrating aspects of League of Legends are that many situations are very stalemate-oriented and this just further reinforces that aspect. If this really is a nerf intended to affect play beyond organized play at the highest level, then it goes back to trying to reduce snowballing and decrease advantages in the early game to keep people from raging/giving up to make the game more casual-friendly. If they're going to stabilize the early game for anything they should buff jungling because it's 5x easier to take a jungler out of the game right now with early organized ganks than it is for any solo laner. There are games as a jungler in solo queue where you can literally do nothing when the opposing team is organized and constantly in your jungle while your team does nothing to adapt to it. I'm totally okay with exploitative strats being in the game, but early tower dives seem like a low priority in my opinion.
I'm fine with it, maybe it'll make up for all the downtime we've had in EUW. x)
On March 28 2013 23:03 Cedstick wrote: fuk riot.
But for reals, I have nothing against the new art for Trundle, but I don't like how he's a bad dude now :< I like Good Guy Trundle.
You should read his judgement (on the wiki). Sure, it takes away from Trundle being a good guy, but it add(ed) much more depth to his character. He may be "disconnected", but he's one of the better written characters in League tbh.
Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
but seriously, do we really want the average redditor to come to this forum? =o
Sure, why not?
Have you read some of the things people on reddit say? >_<
People who say really dumb stuff on TL end up getting banned or ridiculed for their terrible ideas until they leave. So I don't think it's much of an issue.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
On March 29 2013 04:16 Diamond wrote: 3 hours until WE vs TPA! Going to be a sick match, so check out our reddit thread and the cast if you missed last night!
Posting so I can check it when I get home. Thanks for doing this btw, was hoping for an English rebroadcast since I couldn't get up at 4am to watch it lol. Is it as epic as I think it'll be?
i think people can stop crying about the rumble ult nerf now
So if people AFK in his ult for 3.5 seconds you do equal damage. Okay...
Meh, it's a pretty significant nerf to his duel/skirmish potential (in the sense that they can flash out of the damage) but rumble is so unbelievably strong that he can afford to delegate his ult to be used for area control rather than burst & sniping kills.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
but seriously, do we really want the average redditor to come to this forum? =o
Sure, why not?
Have you read some of the things people on reddit say? >_<
Why stereotype an entire group of users like that? If that's the case, TL.net is full of snobs and elitists.
But isn't TL supposed to be somewhat elitist? And when I say the average redditor, I really do mean the average redditor. Don't get me wrong, there are some good posters on reddit but they are far from the norm. Which is bound to happen, I mean they do have 250,000 subscribers.
i think people can stop crying about the rumble ult nerf now
So if people AFK in his ult for 3.5 seconds you do equal damage. Okay...
Or if you have a Jarvan, engage in the jungle, catch them between tower and wall, Amumu ult, Sej ult, Malph ult, in the Baron or Dragon pit, in a large minion wave where they get creep blocked...
Regarding rumble. It's an obvious nerf even if they say "wanted to fit more in line with the character's blah", but saying this just means people won't get as angry that Riot is nerfing him.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
but seriously, do we really want the average redditor to come to this forum? =o
Sure, why not?
Have you read some of the things people on reddit say? >_<
Why stereotype an entire group of users like that? If that's the case, TL.net is full of snobs and elitists.
But isn't TL supposed to be somewhat elitist? And when I say the average redditor, I really do mean the average redditor. Don't get me wrong, there are some good posters on reddit but they are far from the norm. Which is bound to happen, I mean they do have 250,000 subscribers.
Well, I agree that we are somewhat elitist, in the sense that we hold our subforum to a higher standard of posting quality and behavior. But one of main goals of TL LoL staff this season is to extend our outreach in the LoL community and reddit is one of the better outlets for our work.
In general, I think our subforum can move away from being so insular and worry less about the quality of posts if we have an influx of new users. We have a solid foundation and moderation of bad users isn't a problem. If we had to start from scratch like Dota2 or SC2 General, then it'd be a bigger issue.
If you keep these puns going, there's gunna be a reckoning....
I wouldn't mind an influx of pro players joining tl, that'd be awesome. Already pretty awesome that we got spellsy,loci, and locodoco posting here occasionally. And even having ex-sc2 pros posting here is pretty awesome.
On March 29 2013 03:03 Slayer91 wrote: Instead of working out the differential equations the best way to do this is find the points where gold cost of hp equals gold cost of armour+mr. I did the calculations pre giants belt nerf and because hp is so cheap because mr and armour are weighted due to possibility of shields it was like for example 3.6k hp = 150 armour and mr and like early on when you have like say 50ish armour and mr it might be like 2.2k or something which is why early warmogs rushes were used so much. (hp scales WAY more than mr and armour per level)
I think at 0 magic resist and armour it was like 500 or 1k at the point where health is always better than resists and after that you just keep upgrading 100 armour+mr = 1k hp or whatever it was and keep getting 1/2 of each to maximize ehp.
its more practical than the differential equations because you don't have to do any calculations if you just memorize a few benchmark points from napkin math.
you also want to weight the armour/mr balance toward the magic/physical damage intake in the same ratio I think because each point of resists adds the same amount of EHP. ORRR just stack the shit out of armour and try to instantly burst their AP carry in every fight gggg
edit: taking 20 and the cost of armour mr since there are no really cost effective full resist items and mostly negatron and chains vest items kinda suck now anyway and 2.63~ as the value of hp its 1500 hp = 100 mr+armour so e.g 2k hp and 50 armour and mr 3k hp 1500 hp is 5.25 ehp (each point of armour+mr is 1% hp-->ehp against magic+physical damage) 2k hp 150 armour mr =5k ehp hp slightly better here thats where I got my 2.2k number from I guess
but if you average it to 2.75k hp and 100 armour mr you get slightly more ehp. (5.5k)
Mixed damage is actually pretty unintuitive, math-wise. Here's an example that is completely impractical in a real game but is illustrative:
Say you notice in fights you take 3000 physical damage (pre-mitigation) and 1000 magic damage. In this alternate universe, instead of buying items, you just put points into stats. And to make it simpler, you can only put points into armor or MR, and you have 100 to spend.
Say you have 0 armor and 0 MR to start. What is the best way to distribute your 100 points into armor and MR to minimize the damage you take?
If you answered 75/25, that's wrong! 75 armor and 25 MR makes you take 3000*100/175+1000*100/125 = 2514 damage. Whereas you could put all 100 points into armor, and take 3000*100/200+1000*100/100 = 2500 damage. (The optimal split is 90 armor / 10 MR, where you take 3000*100/190+1000*100/110=2488 damage)
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
but seriously, do we really want the average redditor to come to this forum? =o
Sure, why not?
Have you read some of the things people on reddit say? >_<
Why stereotype an entire group of users like that? If that's the case, TL.net is full of snobs and elitists.
But isn't TL supposed to be somewhat elitist? And when I say the average redditor, I really do mean the average redditor. Don't get me wrong, there are some good posters on reddit but they are far from the norm. Which is bound to happen, I mean they do have 250,000 subscribers.
Well, I agree that we are somewhat elitist, in the sense that we hold our subforum to a higher standard of posting quality and behavior. But one of main goals of TL LoL staff this season is to extend our outreach in the LoL community and reddit is one of the better outlets for our work.
In general, I think our subforum can move away from being so insular and worry less about the quality of posts if we have an influx of new users. We have a solid foundation and moderation of bad users isn't a problem. If we had to start from scratch like Dota2 or SC2 General, then it'd be a bigger issue.
The fact of the matter is that insular forums eventually die. You need new blood, and you need to accept that new blood is not going to meet your expectations and match established customs and decorum instantaneously. This is not a bad thing, as sometimes old habits and mores are outmoded and silly, but the old guard will never admit that until some upstart smacks them over the head.
We're not going to turn into the official forums just because we bring in new blood. Unlike those forums we don't have a stake in keeping everyone happy, so the moderators can freely smack around anyone truly deserving.
On March 29 2013 04:57 wei2coolman wrote: All this math... I would've been an engineering physics or math major if I wanted to deal with all these numbers!
Wouldn't it just be easier to just program excel spread sheet to do all this calculations for you?
You have to know what you doing before you set up any kind of process to do it for you.
On March 29 2013 03:03 Slayer91 wrote: Instead of working out the differential equations the best way to do this is find the points where gold cost of hp equals gold cost of armour+mr. I did the calculations pre giants belt nerf and because hp is so cheap because mr and armour are weighted due to possibility of shields it was like for example 3.6k hp = 150 armour and mr and like early on when you have like say 50ish armour and mr it might be like 2.2k or something which is why early warmogs rushes were used so much. (hp scales WAY more than mr and armour per level)
I think at 0 magic resist and armour it was like 500 or 1k at the point where health is always better than resists and after that you just keep upgrading 100 armour+mr = 1k hp or whatever it was and keep getting 1/2 of each to maximize ehp.
its more practical than the differential equations because you don't have to do any calculations if you just memorize a few benchmark points from napkin math.
you also want to weight the armour/mr balance toward the magic/physical damage intake in the same ratio I think because each point of resists adds the same amount of EHP. ORRR just stack the shit out of armour and try to instantly burst their AP carry in every fight gggg
edit: taking 20 and the cost of armour mr since there are no really cost effective full resist items and mostly negatron and chains vest items kinda suck now anyway and 2.63~ as the value of hp its 1500 hp = 100 mr+armour so e.g 2k hp and 50 armour and mr 3k hp 1500 hp is 5.25 ehp (each point of armour+mr is 1% hp-->ehp against magic+physical damage) 2k hp 150 armour mr =5k ehp hp slightly better here thats where I got my 2.2k number from I guess
but if you average it to 2.75k hp and 100 armour mr you get slightly more ehp. (5.5k)
Mixed damage is actually pretty unintuitive, math-wise. Here's an example that is completely impractical in a real game but is illustrative:
Say you notice in fights you take 3000 physical damage (pre-mitigation) and 1000 magic damage. In this alternate universe, instead of buying items, you just put points into stats. And to make it simpler, you can only put points into armor or MR, and you have 100 to spend.
Say you have 0 armor and 0 MR to start. What is the best way to distribute your 100 points into armor and MR to minimize the damage you take?
If you answered 75/25, that's wrong! 75 armor and 25 MR makes you take 3000*100/175+1000*100/125 = 2514 damage. Whereas you could put all 100 points into armor, and take 3000*100/200+1000*100/100 = 2500 damage. (The optimal split is 90 armor / 10 MR, where you take 3000*100/190+1000*100/110=2488 damage)
As another note, the approximation of buying resistances based on the ratio of damage you're taking gets better once you have a lot more total resists. If you have 200 points to spend in the above example, the optimal split is 154 armor / 46 MR.
On March 29 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote: Up to you guys if you want to bother but this post just popped up on Reddit and apparently despite all the work Neo + crew have put in we still go unrecognized.
but seriously, do we really want the average redditor to come to this forum? =o
Sure, why not?
Have you read some of the things people on reddit say? >_<
Why stereotype an entire group of users like that? If that's the case, TL.net is full of snobs and elitists.
But isn't TL supposed to be somewhat elitist? And when I say the average redditor, I really do mean the average redditor. Don't get me wrong, there are some good posters on reddit but they are far from the norm. Which is bound to happen, I mean they do have 250,000 subscribers.
Well, I agree that we are somewhat elitist, in the sense that we hold our subforum to a higher standard of posting quality and behavior. But one of main goals of TL LoL staff this season is to extend our outreach in the LoL community and reddit is one of the better outlets for our work.
In general, I think our subforum can move away from being so insular and worry less about the quality of posts if we have an influx of new users. We have a solid foundation and moderation of bad users isn't a problem. If we had to start from scratch like Dota2 or SC2 General, then it'd be a bigger issue.
The fact of the matter is that insular forums eventually die. You need new blood, and you need to accept that new blood is not going to meet your expectations and match established customs and decorum instantaneously. This is not a bad thing, as sometimes old habits and mores are outmoded and silly, but the old guard will never admit that until some upstart smacks them over the head.
We're not going to turn into the official forums just because we bring in new blood. Unlike those forums we don't have a stake in keeping everyone happy, so the moderators can freely smack around anyone truly deserving.
This is true. It's kind of like the 'clean bathroom' effect: people are less willing to pee on the floor if the floor is currently spotless than if there are already puddles everywhere. The subset of the population that will post like shit regardless of where they are will be smacked down quickly and everyone else will have a nice productive discussion while drinking tea eating scones
On March 29 2013 04:57 wei2coolman wrote: All this math... I would've been an engineering physics or math major if I wanted to deal with all these numbers!
Wouldn't it just be easier to just program excel spread sheet to do all this calculations for you?
You have to know what you doing before you set up any kind of process to do it for you.
I don't subscribe to this at all. You can FEEL. That's how I build my champions, I open myself to the feels and the items just comes to me naturally.
Thenexusp post is really informative. If I understand you well, against a mixed damage champion that is more oriented toward a specific damage (75/25 for melee damage for exemple, I think Jax would be kinda like this) it's better to build purely armor ? Or your little model can't be generalized ?
sigh riot ran into a problem since there was NO WAY your team could do anything about you being dived 3v1 if they werent in position in the first place. And that seems to piss them off. They will sooner or later put tp scrolls into the game
On March 29 2013 05:02 Sufficiency wrote: Is there LCS today? No?
Nope, they are playing Saturday and Sunday, another weird 12 game week.
It's a weird week because Riot has to make up for the games that they planned for IPL6. IGN went under and they were planning to play more the usual 8 games there.
On March 29 2013 05:15 Bam Lee wrote: sigh riot ran into a problem since there was NO WAY your team could do anything about you being dived 3v1 if they werent in position in the first place. And that seems to piss them off. They will sooner or later put tp scrolls into the game
On March 29 2013 05:02 Sufficiency wrote: Is there LCS today? No?
Nope, they are playing Saturday and Sunday, another weird 12 game week.
It's a weird week because Riot has to make up for the games that they planned for IPL6. IGN went under and they were planning to play more the usual 8 games there.
They're also having a "pro player conference", so I'm guessing they're gunna be asking pros what they think of current gameplay/champion balance.
On March 29 2013 05:02 Sufficiency wrote: Is there LCS today? No?
Nope, they are playing Saturday and Sunday, another weird 12 game week.
It's a weird week because Riot has to make up for the games that they planned for IPL6. IGN went under and they were planning to play more the usual 8 games there.
They're also having a "pro player conference", so I'm guessing they're gunna be asking pros what they think of current gameplay/champion balance.
On March 29 2013 05:02 Sufficiency wrote: Is there LCS today? No?
Nope, they are playing Saturday and Sunday, another weird 12 game week.
It's a weird week because Riot has to make up for the games that they planned for IPL6. IGN went under and they were planning to play more the usual 8 games there.
They're also having a "pro player conference", so I'm guessing they're gunna be asking pros what they think of current gameplay/champion balance.
Since I don't have time to watch tournament games, I have to wonder: does the 1v2 laner take heal/barrier with fort pot + HP quints to reduce the effectiveness of tower dives, or are teams still going to kill him in that situation regardless?
On March 29 2013 05:31 Juicyfruit wrote: Since I don't have time to watch tournament games, I have to wonder: does the 1v2 laner take heal/barrier with fort pot + HP quints to reduce the effectiveness of tower dives, or are teams still going to kill him in that situation regardless?
On March 29 2013 05:02 Sufficiency wrote: Is there LCS today? No?
Nope, they are playing Saturday and Sunday, another weird 12 game week.
It's a weird week because Riot has to make up for the games that they planned for IPL6. IGN went under and they were planning to play more the usual 8 games there.
They're also having a "pro player conference", so I'm guessing they're gunna be asking pros what they think of current gameplay/champion balance.
On March 29 2013 03:03 Slayer91 wrote: Instead of working out the differential equations the best way to do this is find the points where gold cost of hp equals gold cost of armour+mr. I did the calculations pre giants belt nerf and because hp is so cheap because mr and armour are weighted due to possibility of shields it was like for example 3.6k hp = 150 armour and mr and like early on when you have like say 50ish armour and mr it might be like 2.2k or something which is why early warmogs rushes were used so much. (hp scales WAY more than mr and armour per level)
I think at 0 magic resist and armour it was like 500 or 1k at the point where health is always better than resists and after that you just keep upgrading 100 armour+mr = 1k hp or whatever it was and keep getting 1/2 of each to maximize ehp.
its more practical than the differential equations because you don't have to do any calculations if you just memorize a few benchmark points from napkin math.
you also want to weight the armour/mr balance toward the magic/physical damage intake in the same ratio I think because each point of resists adds the same amount of EHP. ORRR just stack the shit out of armour and try to instantly burst their AP carry in every fight gggg
edit: taking 20 and the cost of armour mr since there are no really cost effective full resist items and mostly negatron and chains vest items kinda suck now anyway and 2.63~ as the value of hp its 1500 hp = 100 mr+armour so e.g 2k hp and 50 armour and mr 3k hp 1500 hp is 5.25 ehp (each point of armour+mr is 1% hp-->ehp against magic+physical damage) 2k hp 150 armour mr =5k ehp hp slightly better here thats where I got my 2.2k number from I guess
but if you average it to 2.75k hp and 100 armour mr you get slightly more ehp. (5.5k)
Mixed damage is actually pretty unintuitive, math-wise. Here's an example that is completely impractical in a real game but is illustrative:
Say you notice in fights you take 3000 physical damage (pre-mitigation) and 1000 magic damage. In this alternate universe, instead of buying items, you just put points into stats. And to make it simpler, you can only put points into armor or MR, and you have 100 to spend.
Say you have 0 armor and 0 MR to start. What is the best way to distribute your 100 points into armor and MR to minimize the damage you take?
If you answered 75/25, that's wrong! 75 armor and 25 MR makes you take 3000*100/175+1000*100/125 = 2514 damage. Whereas you could put all 100 points into armor, and take 3000*100/200+1000*100/100 = 2500 damage. (The optimal split is 90 armor / 10 MR, where you take 3000*100/190+1000*100/110=2488 damage)
you're right actually that occured to me but is there some sort of algorithm for working out that to apply for that specific sort of situation?
Thoses boobs are ridiculous. No wonder some mad crazy feminist think video games are misogynist. I've seen my gf dancing naked and dem boobs don't do such erotic thing.
On March 29 2013 05:02 Sufficiency wrote: Is there LCS today? No?
Nope, they are playing Saturday and Sunday, another weird 12 game week.
So... EU and NA matches on the same days? That's going to be crazy to follow. I should go check if it's Dig's or Marn's bye week, but I believe Dig already had their only one on the first week so...
On March 29 2013 05:43 Parnage wrote: Read: Smash spilled coffee on the servers to try and holdback a karma rework due to his love of the original.
Man I am literally out of things to do, no ones on in my merc corp, no league, don't feel like mmo's and I even finished my latest read.
Picked up Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, 100+ volumes to read, gonna keep me busy awhile.
On March 29 2013 05:02 Sufficiency wrote: Is there LCS today? No?
Nope, they are playing Saturday and Sunday, another weird 12 game week.
So... EU and NA matches on the same days? That's going to be crazy to follow. I should go check if it's Dig's or Marn's bye week, but I believe Dig already had their only one on the first week so...
On March 29 2013 03:03 Slayer91 wrote: Instead of working out the differential equations the best way to do this is find the points where gold cost of hp equals gold cost of armour+mr. I did the calculations pre giants belt nerf and because hp is so cheap because mr and armour are weighted due to possibility of shields it was like for example 3.6k hp = 150 armour and mr and like early on when you have like say 50ish armour and mr it might be like 2.2k or something which is why early warmogs rushes were used so much. (hp scales WAY more than mr and armour per level)
I think at 0 magic resist and armour it was like 500 or 1k at the point where health is always better than resists and after that you just keep upgrading 100 armour+mr = 1k hp or whatever it was and keep getting 1/2 of each to maximize ehp.
its more practical than the differential equations because you don't have to do any calculations if you just memorize a few benchmark points from napkin math.
you also want to weight the armour/mr balance toward the magic/physical damage intake in the same ratio I think because each point of resists adds the same amount of EHP. ORRR just stack the shit out of armour and try to instantly burst their AP carry in every fight gggg
edit: taking 20 and the cost of armour mr since there are no really cost effective full resist items and mostly negatron and chains vest items kinda suck now anyway and 2.63~ as the value of hp its 1500 hp = 100 mr+armour so e.g 2k hp and 50 armour and mr 3k hp 1500 hp is 5.25 ehp (each point of armour+mr is 1% hp-->ehp against magic+physical damage) 2k hp 150 armour mr =5k ehp hp slightly better here thats where I got my 2.2k number from I guess
but if you average it to 2.75k hp and 100 armour mr you get slightly more ehp. (5.5k)
Mixed damage is actually pretty unintuitive, math-wise. Here's an example that is completely impractical in a real game but is illustrative:
Say you notice in fights you take 3000 physical damage (pre-mitigation) and 1000 magic damage. In this alternate universe, instead of buying items, you just put points into stats. And to make it simpler, you can only put points into armor or MR, and you have 100 to spend.
Say you have 0 armor and 0 MR to start. What is the best way to distribute your 100 points into armor and MR to minimize the damage you take?
If you answered 75/25, that's wrong! 75 armor and 25 MR makes you take 3000*100/175+1000*100/125 = 2514 damage. Whereas you could put all 100 points into armor, and take 3000*100/200+1000*100/100 = 2500 damage. (The optimal split is 90 armor / 10 MR, where you take 3000*100/190+1000*100/110=2488 damage)
you're right actually that occured to me but is there some sort of algorithm for working out that to apply for that specific sort of situation?
HP = 2000;% base HP T_resist = 200; resist = [0:T_resist]; % change the 100 for the combined resist range you want B_armor = 150; %base armor armor = T_resist-resist; B_MR = 50; %base MR MR = resist; pvm = 9; %ratio of physical to magic for i=1:T_resist+1 Ehp(i) = HP*(pvm/(pvm+1))*(1+((B_armor+armor(i))/100))+HP*(1/(pvm+1)*((1+(B_MR+MR(i))/100))); end plot(resist, Ehp)
I'm a sloppy coder when trying to pay attention to class.
Plug into matlab with whatever values you want and enjoy
Thoses boobs are ridiculous. No wonder some mad crazy feminist think video games are misogynist. I've seen my gf dancing naked and dem boobs don't do such erotic thing.
I think we might need some videos for confirmation. Sounds like you trying to hide something here. All those open feels have done things.
I guess I could take a look at coding a model for it since I need to learn matlab/scilab for my Reactor Design project anyway but it's holiday until Monday so hard to put in effort :<
On March 29 2013 03:03 Slayer91 wrote: Instead of working out the differential equations the best way to do this is find the points where gold cost of hp equals gold cost of armour+mr. I did the calculations pre giants belt nerf and because hp is so cheap because mr and armour are weighted due to possibility of shields it was like for example 3.6k hp = 150 armour and mr and like early on when you have like say 50ish armour and mr it might be like 2.2k or something which is why early warmogs rushes were used so much. (hp scales WAY more than mr and armour per level)
I think at 0 magic resist and armour it was like 500 or 1k at the point where health is always better than resists and after that you just keep upgrading 100 armour+mr = 1k hp or whatever it was and keep getting 1/2 of each to maximize ehp.
its more practical than the differential equations because you don't have to do any calculations if you just memorize a few benchmark points from napkin math.
you also want to weight the armour/mr balance toward the magic/physical damage intake in the same ratio I think because each point of resists adds the same amount of EHP. ORRR just stack the shit out of armour and try to instantly burst their AP carry in every fight gggg
edit: taking 20 and the cost of armour mr since there are no really cost effective full resist items and mostly negatron and chains vest items kinda suck now anyway and 2.63~ as the value of hp its 1500 hp = 100 mr+armour so e.g 2k hp and 50 armour and mr 3k hp 1500 hp is 5.25 ehp (each point of armour+mr is 1% hp-->ehp against magic+physical damage) 2k hp 150 armour mr =5k ehp hp slightly better here thats where I got my 2.2k number from I guess
but if you average it to 2.75k hp and 100 armour mr you get slightly more ehp. (5.5k)
Mixed damage is actually pretty unintuitive, math-wise. Here's an example that is completely impractical in a real game but is illustrative:
Say you notice in fights you take 3000 physical damage (pre-mitigation) and 1000 magic damage. In this alternate universe, instead of buying items, you just put points into stats. And to make it simpler, you can only put points into armor or MR, and you have 100 to spend.
Say you have 0 armor and 0 MR to start. What is the best way to distribute your 100 points into armor and MR to minimize the damage you take?
If you answered 75/25, that's wrong! 75 armor and 25 MR makes you take 3000*100/175+1000*100/125 = 2514 damage. Whereas you could put all 100 points into armor, and take 3000*100/200+1000*100/100 = 2500 damage. (The optimal split is 90 armor / 10 MR, where you take 3000*100/190+1000*100/110=2488 damage)
you're right actually that occured to me but is there some sort of algorithm for working out that to apply for that specific sort of situation?
I'd start with calculating enemy DPS:
You'd do something like:
spell damage/ cd = base spell DPS -divide this into its magic and physical components -so you have magic dps, and you multiply it by (1+mpen) for what i'll case "base" magic DPS
aa damage * atkspd = aa base physical dps -add physical spell damage component -multiply by (1+ arpen) for "base" physical DPS
so you have the punching bag then... base HP take the "base" magic DPS and divide by (1+ mr), and this will be the actual magic dps done to the champ take the "base" physical DPS and divide by (1+ armor) and this will be the actual physical dps done to the champ
add them together to get the total actual dps done to the champ.
finally, you'll subtract their hp regen from that for dps to a champ.
interestingly, i've never thought of cdr as effectively a % multiplier on your damage.
you can add in stuff for wit's end, spell sword, etc. pretty easily.
That's really obvious but its long and I mean a really easy way of getting a rough approximation like I had with 1.5k hp = 100 mr and armour and simple ehp calculations are easy to do.
On March 29 2013 06:48 Slayer91 wrote: That's really obvious but its long and I mean a really easy way of getting a rough approximation like I had with 1.5k hp = 100 mr and armour and simple ehp calculations are easy to do.
I guess just square the ratio of physical damage to magic damage. I.e. if you take 2x more physical than magical you'd want 4x the amount of armor to MR.
when i watched the scarra grilled interview, i can't help but think that he is on another level when it comes to thinking about the game, and how i want to get to that level.
and to think that he's not even on the level of asian teams/gambit, and that he understands that and is still constantly thinking how to get there.
On March 29 2013 06:48 Slayer91 wrote: That's really obvious but its long and I mean a really easy way of getting a rough approximation like I had with 1.5k hp = 100 mr and armour and simple ehp calculations are easy to do.
I guess just square the ratio of physical damage to magic damage. I.e. if you take 2x more physical than magical you'd want 4x the amount of armor to MR.
I think you have it backwards; you want ((100+armor)/(100+MR))^2 = physical/magic.
Edit: Calculations: You take p physical damage and m magic damage and have x armor and y = T-x MR. We want d/dx(p*100/(100+x) +m*100/(100+T-x)) = 0. This means -p*100/(100+x)^2 - -1*m*100/(100+T-x)^2 =0, so m/(100+T-x)^2 = p/(100+x)^2, so p/m = (100+x)^2/(100+y)^2
On March 29 2013 07:29 Parnage wrote: Tried to start up league, hit play fatal error with a sad amumu pop up every time. I'd say servers are still borked.
I made a spread sheet that should work to calculate the minimum required health, armour, and mr for the least gold given a few basic parameters. It could easily be expanded to include penetrations and such with a little effort.
Download and you'll need the Excel solver (may have to download; also not sure if it saves solver the settings, so I took a screenshot as well).
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
This is a bit late by me, but the obvious conclusion to come to is that one of Riot's earlygame goals was to limit the effectiveness of early game ganks (in comparison with farming the jungle). This change MAY accomplish that. The problem still is that there is no choice. Junglers who go Buffs>Gank (even ignoring things like wraiths during the first clear) give their team a greater advantage even if the gank results in nothing more than a few free hits. If you force a flash, get a kill, or get a turret, the math is even more in favor of the gank.
The goal is obviously to make the lvl 3 gank less powerful because the zoning should give less of a chance of a future towerdive ~ lvl 6.
On March 29 2013 06:48 Slayer91 wrote: That's really obvious but its long and I mean a really easy way of getting a rough approximation like I had with 1.5k hp = 100 mr and armour and simple ehp calculations are easy to do.
I guess just square the ratio of physical damage to magic damage. I.e. if you take 2x more physical than magical you'd want 4x the amount of armor to MR.
I think you have it backwards; you want ((100+armor)/(100+MR))^2 = physical/magic.
Edit: Calculations: You take p physical damage and m magic damage and have x armor and y = T-x MR. We want d/dx(p*100/(100+x) +m*100/(100+T-x)) = 0. This means -p*100/(100+x)^2 - -1*m*100/(100+T-x)^2 =0, so m/(100+T-x)^2 = p/(100+x)^2, so p/m = (100+x)^2/(100+y)^2
Yours Is a lot more accurate, but I'm trying to get a good way to estimate quickly ingame by looking at the death recap screen, and then figuring out what you need to be buying.
At that accuracy you might as well just look at what you are more scared of and either build one of the health + armor items (sunfire, randuins, locket, ancient golem) if it is AD or a negatron + health/aegis/spirit visage if you are one of the champs that likes it if it is Magic.
Thoses boobs are ridiculous. No wonder some mad crazy feminist think video games are misogynist. I've seen my gf dancing naked and dem boobs don't do such erotic thing.
On March 29 2013 07:47 Simberto wrote: At that accuracy you might as well just look at what you are more scared of and either build one of the health + armor items (sunfire, randuins, locket, ancient golem) if it is AD or a negatron + health/aegis/spirit visage if you are one of the champs that likes it if it is Magic.
Sure but that's not what's being asked. It's fairly accurate anyhow. People build items bases around utility rather than just stats anyways but it does tend to illustrate that if you are taking taking even a 60:40 split in damage its quite beneficial to focus on 1 resistance rather than 2 (+ HP).
So Zac's spells can actually almost be considered free I think-- its actually very easy to grab back the blobs though I guess a good player could zone you out a bit. All in all though, I feel the randomness makes it harder for him to do that, and you can always just drop more spells to harass, drop more blobs and grab a few back and win the trade. Throw on a SV, and its pretty ridiculous.
His ult is a little awkward feeling, but his poke and stuff are pretty insane. I think tank masteries with mpen work really well on him. I think someone said this earlier, but Ancient Golem, IBG, SV, Tabi/Mobo is a good core on him, maybe building Abyssal Sceptre and Warmogs to finish it off. I feel that Ohmwrecker would be good on him as well, but I'm having trouble figuring out where it would go.
Thoses boobs are ridiculous. No wonder some mad crazy feminist think video games are misogynist. I've seen my gf dancing naked and dem boobs don't do such erotic thing.
Oh my.
yeah. getting a gf meant that a bunch of porn suddenly became "there's no way that position is remotely comfortable"
On March 29 2013 07:35 emperorchampion wrote: I made a spread sheet that should work to calculate the minimum required health, armour, and mr for the least gold given a few basic parameters. It could easily be expanded to include penetrations and such with a little effort.
Download and you'll need the Excel solver (may have to download; also not sure if it saves solver the settings, so I took a screenshot as well).
has anyone been watching jiji's stream recently? he's still damn entertaining to watch with some of his plays he makes. It seems like he's getting better again. I just wonder if his team can bring it out of him in tournament matches.
On March 29 2013 07:29 Parnage wrote: Tried to start up league, hit play fatal error with a sad amumu pop up every time. I'd say servers are still borked.
you have to repair your game if you get that
crap this is happening to me too, I definitely have to repair it huh?
On March 29 2013 07:29 Parnage wrote: Tried to start up league, hit play fatal error with a sad amumu pop up every time. I'd say servers are still borked.
you have to repair your game if you get that
crap this is happening to me too, I definitely have to repair it huh?
On March 29 2013 08:09 ketchup wrote: has anyone been watching jiji's stream recently? he's still damn entertaining to watch with some of his plays he makes. It seems like he's getting better again. I just wonder if his team can bring it out of him in tournament matches.
oh jijimon, you're still my favorite despite never giving me a notion that you take LoL srsly. :< He's fun to watch, sure, but I can never tell when he tryhards.
Thoses boobs are ridiculous. No wonder some mad crazy feminist think video games are misogynist. I've seen my gf dancing naked and dem boobs don't do such erotic thing.
I think we might need some videos for confirmation. Sounds like you trying to hide something here. All those open feels have done things.
I guess I could take a look at coding a model for it since I need to learn matlab/scilab for my Reactor Design project anyway but it's holiday until Monday so hard to put in effort :<
I tried trust me.
Nerfing turret is retarded, I'm sure they followed Saintvicious' whine a little too much, that's the boring part, since Riot is Na, Na players have a direct link to the company and can influence the evolution of the game more than other region.
On March 29 2013 08:09 ketchup wrote: has anyone been watching jiji's stream recently? he's still damn entertaining to watch with some of his plays he makes. It seems like he's getting better again. I just wonder if his team can bring it out of him in tournament matches.
oh jijimon, you're still my favorite despite never giving me a notion that you take LoL srsly. :< He's fun to watch, sure, but I can never tell when he tryhards.
Truth. There's no way to tell. I have to wonder if he uses music while in tourneys, or if he is/was not allowed to. Which makes me question if voice chat/ atmosphere effects his game play during tournaments. Can't be jiji without jiji whistling!
On March 29 2013 08:19 WhiteDog wrote: I tried trust me.
Nerfing turret is retarded, I'm sure they followed Saintvicious' whine a little too much, that's the boring part, since Riot is Na, Na players have a direct link to the company and can influence the evolution of the game more than other region.
That's such a stupid stupid assumption to make of any developer that's international. I have no idea what makes you think NA region is the only one taken into account with the decisions being made. Seriously, it's pretty borderline delusional to say such a thing.
I know for a fact after talking to people at PAX that Riot has a team of guys who just talk to the Koreans and then feeds the information back to the rest of the Riot team. I'm assuming they have teams for other regions too.
jiji's always been a solo queue beast. He has a ton of skill and is really good at team fighting but being a good team fighter wasn't as important in the S2 meta of roaming and snowballing and is even less important in the current way the game is played of pushing down towers early. jiji's my favorite player but I don't see him making a come back as a top AP mid for a long time.
He's definitely good enough to play in NA LCS though.
On March 29 2013 08:09 ketchup wrote: has anyone been watching jiji's stream recently? he's still damn entertaining to watch with some of his plays he makes. It seems like he's getting better again. I just wonder if his team can bring it out of him in tournament matches.
oh jijimon, you're still my favorite despite never giving me a notion that you take LoL srsly. :< He's fun to watch, sure, but I can never tell when he tryhards.
Truth. There's no way to tell. I have to wonder if he uses music while in tourneys, or if he is/was not allowed to. Which makes me question if voice chat/ atmosphere effects his game play during tournaments. Can't be jiji without jiji whistling!
On March 29 2013 08:19 WhiteDog wrote: I tried trust me.
Nerfing turret is retarded, I'm sure they followed Saintvicious' whine a little too much, that's the boring part, since Riot is Na, Na players have a direct link to the company and can influence the evolution of the game more than other region.
That's such a stupid stupid assumption to make of any developer that's international. I have no idea what makes you think NA region is the only one taken into account with the decisions being made. Seriously, it's pretty borderline delusional to say such a thing.
You think ? I think it's a pretty safe assumption. I recon Saintvicious and other various NA players had the opportunity to play some game at Riot office and test new heroes before they were even announced (it was for Vi) is it stupid to assume that they could talk during those kind of meeting ? I'm not saying Riot are dumb and just listen to NA (as the poster above, they have put various medium to let the information flow between them and the pro players all around the world), I'm saying since Riot is in NA, their deepest connection is with the NA scene, the scene that has gone vocal a few time about the tower and their "need" to be buffed, and also the scene where the meta is the most stagnant in regard to towers (always 3 man dive top, most of the time with a lane swap).
On March 29 2013 08:09 ketchup wrote: has anyone been watching jiji's stream recently? he's still damn entertaining to watch with some of his plays he makes. It seems like he's getting better again. I just wonder if his team can bring it out of him in tournament matches.
oh jijimon, you're still my favorite despite never giving me a notion that you take LoL srsly. :< He's fun to watch, sure, but I can never tell when he tryhards.
Truth. There's no way to tell. I have to wonder if he uses music while in tourneys, or if he is/was not allowed to. Which makes me question if voice chat/ atmosphere effects his game play during tournaments. Can't be jiji without jiji whistling!
On March 29 2013 08:19 WhiteDog wrote: I tried trust me.
Nerfing turret is retarded, I'm sure they followed Saintvicious' whine a little too much, that's the boring part, since Riot is Na, Na players have a direct link to the company and can influence the evolution of the game more than other region.
That's such a stupid stupid assumption to make of any developer that's international. I have no idea what makes you think NA region is the only one taken into account with the decisions being made. Seriously, it's pretty borderline delusional to say such a thing.
maybe becauseeeeee,riots HQ is in NA and they frequently invite pro players there which happen to be from NA TT It's not dumb to assume that they listen mostly to them since they are mostly surrounded with na players
On March 29 2013 08:09 ketchup wrote: has anyone been watching jiji's stream recently? he's still damn entertaining to watch with some of his plays he makes. It seems like he's getting better again. I just wonder if his team can bring it out of him in tournament matches.
oh jijimon, you're still my favorite despite never giving me a notion that you take LoL srsly. :< He's fun to watch, sure, but I can never tell when he tryhards.
Truth. There's no way to tell. I have to wonder if he uses music while in tourneys, or if he is/was not allowed to. Which makes me question if voice chat/ atmosphere effects his game play during tournaments. Can't be jiji without jiji whistling!
On March 29 2013 08:19 WhiteDog wrote: I tried trust me.
Nerfing turret is retarded, I'm sure they followed Saintvicious' whine a little too much, that's the boring part, since Riot is Na, Na players have a direct link to the company and can influence the evolution of the game more than other region.
That's such a stupid stupid assumption to make of any developer that's international. I have no idea what makes you think NA region is the only one taken into account with the decisions being made. Seriously, it's pretty borderline delusional to say such a thing.
maybe becauseeeeee,riots HQ is in NA and they frequently invite pro players there which happen to be from NA TT It's not dumb to assume that they listen mostly to them since they are mostly surrounded with na players
I seem to remember the entire NA scene(pro's included) whining that Ezreal was terrible and needed buffs and Riot said he's doing fine in China? I don't seem to remember many other changes to Ezreal except some mana reductions and suddenly Ezreal everyplace.
Pretty sure Riot looks at everything considering some champions just don't catch on NA for ages(Zed, Eve now, S2 Ezreal, TF, Gragas, Rumble..)
On March 29 2013 09:20 NeoIllusions wrote: Riot taking all the NA LCS players to Benihana, wtfffff.
Which city? I need to conveniently stop by there for dinner tonight..
Riot HQ is based in Santa Monica, CA. So I assume the Benihana closest to there. :O
Only 30 minutes away...brb making reservations for one. Awww yeah.
l0l... gl. Don't be mad if they're not there. :X
don't be mad if the food is terrible too.
On March 29 2013 09:34 cLutZ wrote: Just because Koreans take advantage of weak turrets doesn't mean they enjoy them.
The fact is LoL is becoming a spectator sport, and laneswaps are boring to watch.
laneswaps are boring to watch? are you kidding me? have you watched any of the gigabyte starswar league? the early destruction of the tower as well as the imbalance in lanes has led to a lot of exciting early action. teams are skirmishing more and even at the 10 minute mark you still see some semblance of laning phase that is only more exciting and riskier because there is no tower.
that's not to say laneswaps are better, they're just a different way to play the game. hell i get excited watching the level 1 fights, level 1s are insane when you realize the mindgames people are playing.
i don't think the stronger turrets will change much, i just think it means your dives can't be sloppy anymore.
On March 29 2013 09:52 jcarlsoniv wrote: So apparently this coach bus has outlets and wifi l0l
Anyone play new Karma yet????
karma disabled at the moment.
Also tower changes wont make the 2v1 and the lane swapping go away might make it not happen under 4 minutes but it'll still happen. *shrug* This really feels like overreaction by people
On March 29 2013 09:34 cLutZ wrote: Just because Koreans take advantage of weak turrets doesn't mean they enjoy them.
The fact is LoL is becoming a spectator sport, and laneswaps are boring to watch.
laneswaps are boring to watch? are you kidding me? have you watched any of the gigabyte starswar league? the early destruction of the tower as well as the imbalance in lanes has led to a lot of exciting early action. teams are skirmishing more and even at the 10 minute mark you still see some semblance of laning phase that is only more exciting and riskier because there is no tower.
that's not to say laneswaps are better, they're just a different way to play the game. hell i get excited watching the level 1 fights, level 1s are insane when you realize the mindgames people are playing.
i don't think the stronger turrets will change much, i just think it means your dives can't be sloppy anymore.
GSWL laneswaps are sometimes exciting. However, most of those instances are where the laneswap is to mid, and the team tries to use the power to gain early dragons. This change barely affects this strat. The goal is to make the Purple switches to top laneswap less stagnant. Because in that situation, the outcome of a dive is not in question for the viewers who are not "in the dark" because of fog. We know it will be a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2. Thus, any plays based on the players not having that knowledge are not interesting to watch.
On March 29 2013 09:52 jcarlsoniv wrote: So apparently this coach bus has outlets and wifi l0l
Anyone play new Karma yet????
karma disabled at the moment.
Also tower changes wont make the 2v1 and the lane swapping go away might make it not happen under 4 minutes but it'll still happen. *shrug* This really feels like overreaction by people
Even if it is an overreaction it's still riot pushing the game in a more passive direction, which is worrying because passive is not fun to watch. At all.
On March 29 2013 09:20 NeoIllusions wrote: Riot taking all the NA LCS players to Benihana, wtfffff.
Which city? I need to conveniently stop by there for dinner tonight..
Riot HQ is based in Santa Monica, CA. So I assume the Benihana closest to there. :O
Only 30 minutes away...brb making reservations for one. Awww yeah.
l0l... gl. Don't be mad if they're not there. :X
don't be mad if the food is terrible too.
On March 29 2013 09:34 cLutZ wrote: Just because Koreans take advantage of weak turrets doesn't mean they enjoy them.
The fact is LoL is becoming a spectator sport, and laneswaps are boring to watch.
laneswaps are boring to watch? are you kidding me? have you watched any of the gigabyte starswar league? the early destruction of the tower as well as the imbalance in lanes has led to a lot of exciting early action. teams are skirmishing more and even at the 10 minute mark you still see some semblance of laning phase that is only more exciting and riskier because there is no tower.
that's not to say laneswaps are better, they're just a different way to play the game. hell i get excited watching the level 1 fights, level 1s are insane when you realize the mindgames people are playing.
i don't think the stronger turrets will change much, i just think it means your dives can't be sloppy anymore.
GSWL laneswaps are sometimes exciting. However, most of those instances are where the laneswap is to mid, and the team tries to use the power to gain early dragons. This change barely affects this strat. The goal is to make the Purple switches to top laneswap less stagnant. Because in that situation, the outcome of a dive is not in question for the viewers who are not "in the dark" because of fog. We know it will be a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2. Thus, any plays based on the players not having that knowledge are not interesting to watch.
I think asking "is it interesting" is not really relevant because it really depend on a lot of things. Is it fun to see HotshotGG getting smashed four time in a row by a 3 man dive ? No. Is it fun to see Spontexx defend a 3vs1 and get a triple kill ? Most def. Weak tower promote action, wheither that action is boring or not.
What I'm more interested is in the impact of a tower buff on the current meta. There are a some teams (Fnatic) that really abuse the current tower situation to a point where their play style is absolutly reliant on that, and really a tower buff mid season is questionable in this regard. What impact will it have ?
People might disagree but in league people seem to take pretty much any nerf/buff waaaaaayyyyy too seriously.Like this change won't make tower diving impossible.It will just take some more games to figure out how much you can afford to tank and we all will probably die a few times because we aren't used to it but that's it.
edit:I hope finally me being too cheap to buy full ad runes will be ok and I will get the 1 shot on ranged creeps :D.Or I will just stick to draven ^^.
On March 29 2013 10:40 ticklishmusic wrote: I played a little new Karma on PBE awhile ago. She felt pretty strong, but pretty dependent on her mantra.
She just looks like she has everything, the CD on her Q skillshot at 950 range is really stellar. And when mantra'd it has a stupid ratio. CDR will be core as she has almost ryzelike passive, and mantra access.
It really seems like she could go in any role, maybe even jungle.
On March 29 2013 10:40 ticklishmusic wrote: I played a little new Karma on PBE awhile ago. She felt pretty strong, but pretty dependent on her mantra.
She just looks like she has everything, the CD on her Q skillshot at 950 range is really stellar. And when mantra'd it has a stupid ratio. CDR will be core as she has almost ryzelike passive, and mantra access.
I think she works really well as a mid, but would be trading the burst from more traditional mids for a lot more utility-- her mantra'd E is probably one of the flat out best spells in the game right now-- it makes a total of thousands of HP difference in a fight, and the speedboost is really sweet as well.
Given her wave clear, sustain, shield, CC< poke and pseudo escapes, I think she would work as a sort of anti mage-- keep the enemy mid at a manageable level, then pretty much negate their burst in fights.
I feel playing her as a support would be a waste. You'd probably build something like Shurleyas/ Twin Shadows/ Grail/Crucible, then idunno.
EDIT: Mantra gives her a >1 ratio on all her spells.
Man the first Bioshock is one of my favourite games of all time but I just can't justify spending 60$ on a game anymore... must avoid spoilers for a year until it goes on sale.
On March 29 2013 09:20 NeoIllusions wrote: Riot taking all the NA LCS players to Benihana, wtfffff.
Which city? I need to conveniently stop by there for dinner tonight..
Riot HQ is based in Santa Monica, CA. So I assume the Benihana closest to there. :O
Only 30 minutes away...brb making reservations for one. Awww yeah.
l0l... gl. Don't be mad if they're not there. :X
don't be mad if the food is terrible too.
On March 29 2013 09:34 cLutZ wrote: Just because Koreans take advantage of weak turrets doesn't mean they enjoy them.
The fact is LoL is becoming a spectator sport, and laneswaps are boring to watch.
laneswaps are boring to watch? are you kidding me? have you watched any of the gigabyte starswar league? the early destruction of the tower as well as the imbalance in lanes has led to a lot of exciting early action. teams are skirmishing more and even at the 10 minute mark you still see some semblance of laning phase that is only more exciting and riskier because there is no tower.
that's not to say laneswaps are better, they're just a different way to play the game. hell i get excited watching the level 1 fights, level 1s are insane when you realize the mindgames people are playing.
i don't think the stronger turrets will change much, i just think it means your dives can't be sloppy anymore.
GSWL laneswaps are sometimes exciting. However, most of those instances are where the laneswap is to mid, and the team tries to use the power to gain early dragons. This change barely affects this strat. The goal is to make the Purple switches to top laneswap less stagnant. Because in that situation, the outcome of a dive is not in question for the viewers who are not "in the dark" because of fog. We know it will be a 2v1, 3v1, 3v2. Thus, any plays based on the players not having that knowledge are not interesting to watch.
I think asking "is it interesting" is not really relevant because it really depend on a lot of things. Is it fun to see HotshotGG getting smashed four time in a row by a 3 man dive ? No. Is it fun to see Spontexx defend a 3vs1 and get a triple kill ? Most def. Weak tower promote action, wheither that action is boring or not.
What I'm more interested is in the impact of a tower buff on the current meta. There are a some teams (Fnatic) that really abuse the current tower situation to a point where their play style is absolutly reliant on that, and really a tower buff mid season is questionable in this regard. What impact will it have ?
I think its more than just defending 3v1 dives, its an attempt to change the calculus of the game. There are a bunch of things that Riot has said they don't like. One thing they don't like is passivity, but they also don't like earlygame ganks having such a huge effect.
While in the pros it probably encourages the more interesting type of laneswap (mid) over toplane and hopefully encourages more dragonfights, it also has the desirable soloQ effect of preventing excessive snowballing.
Probably it would be best if the change was only to outer Top/Bot turrets.
On March 29 2013 11:32 Chrispy wrote: Man the first Bioshock is one of my favourite games of all time but I just can't justify spending 60$ on a game anymore... must avoid spoilers for a year until it goes on sale.
On March 29 2013 11:32 Chrispy wrote: Man the first Bioshock is one of my favourite games of all time but I just can't justify spending 60$ on a game anymore... must avoid spoilers for a year until it goes on sale.
On March 29 2013 11:32 Chrispy wrote: Man the first Bioshock is one of my favourite games of all time but I just can't justify spending 60$ on a game anymore... must avoid spoilers for a year until it goes on sale.
You could always channel your inner gangplank.
Eating an orange wouldn't change his conundrum.
build gp5, survive by only eating fruit, parrley until 40 minutes, have enough money to buy whatever you want.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
I find those games the funnest though, you can just troll around for 20 minutes, and try out stupid stuff.
On March 29 2013 11:32 Chrispy wrote: Man the first Bioshock is one of my favourite games of all time but I just can't justify spending 60$ on a game anymore... must avoid spoilers for a year until it goes on sale.
On March 29 2013 11:32 Chrispy wrote: Man the first Bioshock is one of my favourite games of all time but I just can't justify spending 60$ on a game anymore... must avoid spoilers for a year until it goes on sale.
You could always channel your inner gangplank.
Shoot and kill people for money?
I seriously hope you guys are purposely missing the "pirate" connotation....
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
That feel when you elo check the other team and they're all top diamond :/
On the other hand, that feel when you beat a team like that (have a screenie of beating best riven na somewhere)
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
That feel when you elo check the other team and they're all top diamond :/
On the other hand, that feel when you beat a team like that (have a screenie of beating best riven na somewhere)
my claim to fame is that i once got a double kill on locodoco and dlift on arranged 3v3's (okay so they kind of fountain dived me). well, actually loco dived me, then i flashed out of fountain and headbutted dlift into it, lol.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
That feel when you elo check the other team and they're all top diamond :/
On the other hand, that feel when you beat a team like that (have a screenie of beating best riven na somewhere)
Beating UnR in one game with Nyjacky, Pobelter, SYDTKO, DontMashMe, Liquid (lol) was a highlight of my lol career. Lost the bo3 but that victory can't be taken away. :D
I don't really see why it's a big deal anyways. Ranked 5s provides a path to getting a Riot salary. If you're not prepared to have your anus torn asunder by people better than you then don't play ranked 5s. There's nothing to stop you from just 5 queuing in Normal Draft to practice fundamentals if you don't want a bunch of ranked losses.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
On March 29 2013 12:39 overt wrote: I don't really see why it's a big deal anyways. Ranked 5s provides a path to getting a Riot salary. If you're not prepared to have your anus torn asunder by people better than you then don't play ranked 5s. There's nothing to stop you from just 5 queuing in Normal Draft to practice fundamentals if you don't want a bunch of ranked losses.
Ewww normal draft
It's like the mess of blindpick but with added tryhardiness
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
A team with random high elo players would lose every time to a team of coordinated but lower elo players. I've seen this time and time again. 5's is a completely different game than solo queue, there's a separate body of knowledge that needs to be learned no matter how high elo you are.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
I call B.S. a team of random plats will always win vs a team of silvers, does not matter the coordination. If you're silver you have no game sense, 5 people with no game sense is still no game sense.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
I call B.S. a team of random plats will always win vs a team of silvers, does not matter the coordination. If you're silver you have no game sense, 5 people with no game sense is still no game sense.
A team of silvers that tryhard will win against a team of plats that troll each other though.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
I call B.S. a team of random plats will always win vs a team of silvers, does not matter the coordination. If you're silver you have no game sense, 5 people with no game sense is still no game sense.
A team of silvers that tryhard will win against a team of plats that troll each other though.
The skill difference between silver and plat is pretty cataclysmic. A plat person playing in silver can easily have an 80% win rate, now with 5 plats, it really doesn't take any effort.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
I call B.S. a team of random plats will always win vs a team of silvers, does not matter the coordination. If you're silver you have no game sense, 5 people with no game sense is still no game sense.
A team of silvers that tryhard will win against a team of plats that troll each other though.
The skill difference between silver and plat is pretty cataclysmic. A plat person playing in silver can easily have an 80% win rate, now with 5 plats, it really doesn't take any effort.
A plat playing in silver soloqueue can have an 80% win rate. That does not mean that plats have some unbeatable skill over silvers.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
A team with random high elo players would lose every time to a team of coordinated but lower elo players. I've seen this time and time again. 5's is a completely different game than solo queue, there's a separate body of knowledge that needs to be learned no matter how high elo you are.
This is true up to a point - A team with all Diamond 1's has a hard time losing vs anyone not in Diamond, as laning/teamfighting is usually way too 1 sided. The lower skilled team has to pull off really good ganks/coordinated plays, which is really hard to do when every lane is losing or at best going even.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
I call B.S. a team of random plats will always win vs a team of silvers, does not matter the coordination. If you're silver you have no game sense, 5 people with no game sense is still no game sense.
A team of silvers that tryhard will win against a team of plats that troll each other though.
The skill difference between silver and plat is pretty cataclysmic. A plat person playing in silver can easily have an 80% win rate, now with 5 plats, it really doesn't take any effort.
A plat playing in silver soloqueue can have an 80% win rate. That does not mean that plats have some unbeatable skill over silvers.
If you have 5 plats, they could probably all hard random and still win the game if they are tryharding.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
A team with random high elo players would lose every time to a team of coordinated but lower elo players. I've seen this time and time again. 5's is a completely different game than solo queue, there's a separate body of knowledge that needs to be learned no matter how high elo you are.
You really need to put something like this into perspective though. 5 diamonds vs 5 plats, sure the "lower" elo team here definitely has a possibility of winning with better coordination. But 5 diamonds vs silvers and/or golds? They won't make it out of laning phase strong enough to make use of their coordination.
Elo isn't a be all, end all but it is still a metric of some sort.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
A team with random high elo players would lose every time to a team of coordinated but lower elo players. I've seen this time and time again. 5's is a completely different game than solo queue, there's a separate body of knowledge that needs to be learned no matter how high elo you are.
Just to echo others, I've played with friends who are all gold/plat and we've been able to beat teams of low diamonds due to better coordination. But the few times we've gone up against people in mid-high diamond we've been stomped. Even if we make plays and are more coordinated with early dives/skirmishes and such, we simply just get out-laned hard and lose due to snowball.
On March 29 2013 11:32 Chrispy wrote: Man the first Bioshock is one of my favourite games of all time but I just can't justify spending 60$ on a game anymore... must avoid spoilers for a year until it goes on sale.
I really hope you can do this, there's definitively some stuff that loses its impact if spoiled (much like the first game). But yeah both Bioshock games (there are only two right? hue) are easily in my top games of all time.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
nothing? really?
lets bet even money, and ill take the team with the higher solo queue ratings. $100 a game on every game played, trust riot to keep stats. Run it until one of us is broke.
On March 29 2013 14:34 cLutZ wrote: Zac didn't look that strong during that Lux chase in the spotlight.
Catch a lux near river with a slow and dont kill her till inhib tower 3v1?
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
I call B.S. a team of random plats will always win vs a team of silvers, does not matter the coordination. If you're silver you have no game sense, 5 people with no game sense is still no game sense.
A team of silvers that tryhard will win against a team of plats that troll each other though.
The skill difference between silver and plat is pretty cataclysmic. A plat person playing in silver can easily have an 80% win rate, now with 5 plats, it really doesn't take any effort.
Some people have come up with some pretty creative trolls.
I knew a guy who had his entire team troll their jungle alistar by having everyone have the exact same inventory as him. Whenever ali recalled or died, everyone recalled at once; they bought the exact same items (ad and support split farm so support can afford them); when alistar used a ward, everyone dropped a ward where they were standing at once. "Alistar you should buy some damage items" "why ali's a tank" "just cause, we won't have any damage if you don't" "what are you talking abou--what the fuck"
My friends and I call it commander mode, but we only do it in aram with an 8 man stack nowadays :X I should probably write a post about it or something since there's no point in keeping it secret anymore now that aram queues are going to come out and it'll be impossible to do.
On March 29 2013 08:09 ketchup wrote: has anyone been watching jiji's stream recently? he's still damn entertaining to watch with some of his plays he makes. It seems like he's getting better again. I just wonder if his team can bring it out of him in tournament matches.
oh jijimon, you're still my favorite despite never giving me a notion that you take LoL srsly. :< He's fun to watch, sure, but I can never tell when he tryhards.
Truth. There's no way to tell. I have to wonder if he uses music while in tourneys, or if he is/was not allowed to. Which makes me question if voice chat/ atmosphere effects his game play during tournaments. Can't be jiji without jiji whistling!
On March 29 2013 08:19 WhiteDog wrote: I tried trust me.
Nerfing turret is retarded, I'm sure they followed Saintvicious' whine a little too much, that's the boring part, since Riot is Na, Na players have a direct link to the company and can influence the evolution of the game more than other region.
That's such a stupid stupid assumption to make of any developer that's international. I have no idea what makes you think NA region is the only one taken into account with the decisions being made. Seriously, it's pretty borderline delusional to say such a thing.
maybe becauseeeeee,riots HQ is in NA and they frequently invite pro players there which happen to be from NA TT It's not dumb to assume that they listen mostly to them since they are mostly surrounded with na players
I seem to remember the entire NA scene(pro's included) whining that Ezreal was terrible and needed buffs and Riot said he's doing fine in China? I don't seem to remember many other changes to Ezreal except some mana reductions and suddenly Ezreal everyplace.
Pretty sure Riot looks at everything considering some champions just don't catch on NA for ages(Zed, Eve now, S2 Ezreal, TF, Gragas, Rumble..)
Proof actually. Ezreal was OP in China, NA screamed weak, EZ got buff.
I'm sure Riot takes into account opinions of all regions, but it's also true NA players get to whisper in their ear more often.
On March 29 2013 08:09 ketchup wrote: has anyone been watching jiji's stream recently? he's still damn entertaining to watch with some of his plays he makes. It seems like he's getting better again. I just wonder if his team can bring it out of him in tournament matches.
oh jijimon, you're still my favorite despite never giving me a notion that you take LoL srsly. :< He's fun to watch, sure, but I can never tell when he tryhards.
Truth. There's no way to tell. I have to wonder if he uses music while in tourneys, or if he is/was not allowed to. Which makes me question if voice chat/ atmosphere effects his game play during tournaments. Can't be jiji without jiji whistling!
On March 29 2013 08:19 WhiteDog wrote: I tried trust me.
Nerfing turret is retarded, I'm sure they followed Saintvicious' whine a little too much, that's the boring part, since Riot is Na, Na players have a direct link to the company and can influence the evolution of the game more than other region.
That's such a stupid stupid assumption to make of any developer that's international. I have no idea what makes you think NA region is the only one taken into account with the decisions being made. Seriously, it's pretty borderline delusional to say such a thing.
maybe becauseeeeee,riots HQ is in NA and they frequently invite pro players there which happen to be from NA TT It's not dumb to assume that they listen mostly to them since they are mostly surrounded with na players
I seem to remember the entire NA scene(pro's included) whining that Ezreal was terrible and needed buffs and Riot said he's doing fine in China? I don't seem to remember many other changes to Ezreal except some mana reductions and suddenly Ezreal everyplace.
Pretty sure Riot looks at everything considering some champions just don't catch on NA for ages(Zed, Eve now, S2 Ezreal, TF, Gragas, Rumble..)
Proof actually. Ezreal was OP in China, NA screamed weak, EZ got buff.
I'm sure Riot takes into account opinions of all regions, but it's also true NA players get to whisper in their ear more often.
Sounds like reverse blizzard
"Foreigner terran can't win" "It's k Korean terran still 70% w/l, terran still need nerfs"
On March 29 2013 08:09 ketchup wrote: has anyone been watching jiji's stream recently? he's still damn entertaining to watch with some of his plays he makes. It seems like he's getting better again. I just wonder if his team can bring it out of him in tournament matches.
oh jijimon, you're still my favorite despite never giving me a notion that you take LoL srsly. :< He's fun to watch, sure, but I can never tell when he tryhards.
Truth. There's no way to tell. I have to wonder if he uses music while in tourneys, or if he is/was not allowed to. Which makes me question if voice chat/ atmosphere effects his game play during tournaments. Can't be jiji without jiji whistling!
On March 29 2013 08:19 WhiteDog wrote: I tried trust me.
Nerfing turret is retarded, I'm sure they followed Saintvicious' whine a little too much, that's the boring part, since Riot is Na, Na players have a direct link to the company and can influence the evolution of the game more than other region.
That's such a stupid stupid assumption to make of any developer that's international. I have no idea what makes you think NA region is the only one taken into account with the decisions being made. Seriously, it's pretty borderline delusional to say such a thing.
maybe becauseeeeee,riots HQ is in NA and they frequently invite pro players there which happen to be from NA TT It's not dumb to assume that they listen mostly to them since they are mostly surrounded with na players
I seem to remember the entire NA scene(pro's included) whining that Ezreal was terrible and needed buffs and Riot said he's doing fine in China? I don't seem to remember many other changes to Ezreal except some mana reductions and suddenly Ezreal everyplace.
Pretty sure Riot looks at everything considering some champions just don't catch on NA for ages(Zed, Eve now, S2 Ezreal, TF, Gragas, Rumble..)
Proof actually. Ezreal was OP in China, NA screamed weak, EZ got buff.
I'm sure Riot takes into account opinions of all regions, but it's also true NA players get to whisper in their ear more often.
Ez also got hit by the nerfbat, a lot harder than the buff bat.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
A team with random high elo players would lose every time to a team of coordinated but lower elo players. I've seen this time and time again. 5's is a completely different game than solo queue, there's a separate body of knowledge that needs to be learned no matter how high elo you are.
You really need to put something like this into perspective though. 5 diamonds vs 5 plats, sure the "lower" elo team here definitely has a possibility of winning with better coordination. But 5 diamonds vs silvers and/or golds? They won't make it out of laning phase strong enough to make use of their coordination.
Elo isn't a be all, end all but it is still a metric of some sort.
A friend of mine is in a french team called prelude. He is a silver support and the players in the team are all gold at best and they win diamond team every week. They play together a lot tho (3 times a week with tourney on week ends) and they have solid mecanics but suck at decision making in soloq (dem 1 vs 5, dem throw). They also take it quite seriously (they have a stream that cast their matches and all).
I also think elo is a metric, but it can be compensated and a lot of people do less mistaked when they listen to the designated lead on skype.
By "they win diamond team every week" do you mean Diamond in 5s or teams made up of Diamond solo queue players?
Because there's an enormous difference. It's likely that the majority of Diamond teams in 5s aren't actually made up of Diamond players and are actually just other equally bad silver and gold players.
On March 29 2013 17:30 TheYango wrote: By "they win diamond team every week" do you mean Diamond in 5s or teams made up of Diamond solo queue players?
Because there's an enormous difference. It's likely that the majority of Diamond teams in 5s aren't actually made up of Diamond players and are actually just other equally bad silver and gold players.
Ho no I misread. A team made of diamond in soloq. They achieved second in the last french go4lol like cup. (No good team play that cup tho)
On March 29 2013 17:30 TheYango wrote: By "they win diamond team every week" do you mean Diamond in 5s or teams made up of Diamond solo queue players?
Because there's an enormous difference. It's likely that the majority of Diamond teams in 5s aren't actually made up of Diamond players and are actually just other equally bad silver and gold players.
Ho no I misread. Diamond in soloq. They achieved second in the last french go4lol like cup.
I don't trust ratings honestly
Especially since I have a bronze V account at plat/diamond mmr
On March 29 2013 17:30 TheYango wrote: By "they win diamond team every week" do you mean Diamond in 5s or teams made up of Diamond solo queue players?
Because there's an enormous difference. It's likely that the majority of Diamond teams in 5s aren't actually made up of Diamond players and are actually just other equally bad silver and gold players.
Ho no I misread. Diamond in soloq. They achieved second in the last french go4lol like cup.
I don't trust ratings honestly
Especially since I have a bronze V account at plat/diamond mmr
Yeah it's safe to assume some of them could achieve plat if they wanted to. And if I remember well they could beat plat team in the previous season but would always be badly destroyed against diamond then.
So I was in a game and suddenly "attemping to reconnect" despite my inet being fine... it doesn't work so I leave the game and it looks like the game just crashed lol I can't reconnect to the game.Tried to login again but same thing. My friend list is empty too ~_~. EUW fine ? :/
edit: I can join queue again ... weird. Damn I was owning with gangaplanka
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
I call B.S. a team of random plats will always win vs a team of silvers, does not matter the coordination. If you're silver you have no game sense, 5 people with no game sense is still no game sense.
A team of silvers that tryhard will win against a team of plats that troll each other though.
The skill difference between silver and plat is pretty cataclysmic. A plat person playing in silver can easily have an 80% win rate, now with 5 plats, it really doesn't take any effort.
Some people have come up with some pretty creative trolls.
I knew a guy who had his entire team troll their jungle alistar by having everyone have the exact same inventory as him. Whenever ali recalled or died, everyone recalled at once; they bought the exact same items (ad and support split farm so support can afford them); when alistar used a ward, everyone dropped a ward where they were standing at once. "Alistar you should buy some damage items" "why ali's a tank" "just cause, we won't have any damage if you don't" "what are you talking abou--what the fuck"
5 plats will generally win against 5 silvers but like there are a lot of factors that go in there because I've beaten an old lineup of some pro team with a bunch of TL players (some 3rd string team in s1, I forgot the names and the picture I took of us winning was on my other computer, but I think it was a bunch of people who are now on Korean or NA teams and they were a tentative roster... it mighta been rock solid?). We also gave old Curse a run for their money a few times but they still beat us in the end.
I mean this isn't a good example really because I think 2 or 3 of us were plat but the difference in Elo between us and them was still about the same as silver is to plat currently. Silver is just much more central on the distribution so it's a lot more variance, but it's possible.
Karma's damage is definitely strong. I got hit for like 1300 AOE by one of her spell. Our entire team just melted. She is also pretty safe with the shield and snare in lane. She will for sure be Fotm for now.
Holy shit. Karma is batshit insane. I just played her and I was literally just thinking... this is insane... this is so insane... She's going to need to get her damage toned done so much. That, and the snare-stun is almost unavoidable at times, making ganks with her horrendously hard.
Well I've tried a bit of Karma. I haven't decided whether RoA or grail is better on her yet. 40% CDR is needed for later fights though, because aside from Q everything is pretty long.
Also mantra E does an absurd amount of damage/shielding once you get some AP going.
I think E mantra is always going to be optimal in teamfights, W is best for dueling, and Q I would really only mantra if I needed extra damage to snipe someone with Q, or if I have lockdown.
mantra'd W though is hilarious once you get a larger amount of AP going. It's literally fiddle drain with triple the damage and no interrupt.
On March 29 2013 20:28 Amui wrote: Well I've tried a bit of Karma. I haven't decided whether RoA or grail is better on her yet. 40% CDR is needed for later fights though, because aside from Q everything is pretty long.
Also mantra E does an absurd amount of damage/shielding once you get some AP going.
I think E mantra is always going to be optimal in teamfights, W is best for dueling, and Q I would really only mantra if I needed extra damage to snipe someone with Q, or if I have lockdown.
mantra'd W though is hilarious once you get a larger amount of AP going. It's literally fiddle drain with triple the damage and no interrupt.
Mantra q does ALOT of damage far more than E, obviously its situational
Q: 785 base damage and 1.5 AP if you hit both parts (not that hard, the slow is nuts)
E: 300 base and .6 AP damage . And 390 shield and .8 AP
so it really depends what you want, both have nice AOE
On March 29 2013 20:53 EquilasH wrote: My new solo queue philosophy: "Pick Renekton against Rumble and pick Rumble against Renekton".
Pick Renekton against everything, I'm pretty sure he's going to be nerfed soon lol
The funny thing is, in Diamond 1 I haven't lost the matchup a single time and I've played it at least 3 times from either side - I just don't know what everyone else is doing wrong.
On March 29 2013 20:53 EquilasH wrote: My new solo queue philosophy: "Pick Renekton against Rumble and pick Rumble against Renekton".
Pick Renekton against everything, I'm pretty sure he's going to be nerfed soon lol
The funny thing is, in Diamond 1 I haven't lost the matchup a single time and I've played it at least 3 times from either side - I just don't know what everyone else is doing wrong.
If you are really good at playing a champion, you are also generally good at playing against the champion since you are already very familiar with the matchups.
On March 29 2013 23:12 mordek wrote: Need more streaming with Oscar Peterson.
Agreed.
Oscar Peterson, some good beer, some mandrops, some TL friends... What else do you need in life (other than food, shelter, love, a means of transportation, money, and good health insurance)?
I want to see a Thresh top, Karma support, and Lux mid. Shields, shields everywhere! Or maybe Karma top would be better, since Thresh gets free AP from souls anyways. Could have a Sion jungle. Just need an ADC with a shield now hue.
On March 29 2013 23:50 Bwaaaa wrote: Why does Phreak take hybrid pen marks in the champion spotlight? All her spells deal magic damage and the extra damage on autos is minimal.
Likely because she got a buffed attack range (it's 575 now, on the longer side), and you're going to be using autos a lot to help lower Mantra.
On March 29 2013 11:19 dottycakes wrote: That's cause solo queue elo has nothing to do with team queue.
A team with four Diamond Is doing placements should not be matched with a Bronze I team, it's absurd.
Yeah I agree with that. They should use average team soloq elo to determine your starting point in teams I think. I got matched up against a team whose lowest elo was 2000 back in season 2. Needless to say my butt felt raw after that game.
as a silver player who teams with low gold players in arranged 5s, we've stomped teams with plats and diamonds.
I call B.S. a team of random plats will always win vs a team of silvers, does not matter the coordination. If you're silver you have no game sense, 5 people with no game sense is still no game sense.
A team of silvers that tryhard will win against a team of plats that troll each other though.
The skill difference between silver and plat is pretty cataclysmic. A plat person playing in silver can easily have an 80% win rate, now with 5 plats, it really doesn't take any effort.
have you played arranged 5s over an extended period of time?
it'll answer all your questions.
you learn game sense, and you learn how much different it is than solo queue.
you learn how mistakes can completely change the flow of the game. a gank that gets turned around can quickly snowball in the other team's favor if they can play it right.
you learn how hard it is to teamfight. the other day i was playing with some TL people and i attempted an initiate that would've worked in arranged 5s, but because there was no coordination or communication we got wiped and milo flamed me, lol. long story short, i was rengar, i saw 5v4, so i just cloaked and jumped onto an overextended graves to force them to fight. team was confused on whether to play offensively or defensively, so our thresh box was dropped early to form a protective line, our jax jumped onto their jax instead of the carry, and ziggs only ulted the front line, a mix of offense and defensive. if jax jumped onto the carry, thresh could box could defensively, but if jax jumped onto the other jax, thresh could box offensively. things like that are the difference between wiping their team and our team wiping.
you learn how to communicate. you learn who needs to pipe in what information, and when. as jungler i can constantly ask how the lanes are going, if it's pushing or going to push, whether wards were used or not. you can timing gank much better; even if a bush is warded, you can get ganks off at certain times if they start it just before you cross the ward. hell, even the information that a jungler might be somewhere based on how a laner is behaving could relieve pressure from other lanes.
you learn how to properly group for objectives. instead of 3v1 tower and walking around wondering who's gonna dive or if you can dive, you can coordinate who will go on first, engage, and tank the tower and finish it off much quickly.
all of this can influence the game. and it makes much more sense to think about these things instead of these random numbers that come out of nowhere, like "80% chance that plat beats silver".
MS runes, boots of mobility(homeguard) lich bane and nashors tooth. bolting around map and double procing lichbane + phoenix flame active.
You are fast enough to catch people without bear, which sets up for double proc phoenix. Preloaded phoenix -> phoenix -> bear > phoenix is a huuuuge burst.
On March 29 2013 23:51 zer0das wrote: She feels strong.
I want to see a Thresh top, Karma support, and Lux mid. Shields, shields everywhere! Or maybe Karma top would be better, since Thresh gets free AP from souls anyways. Could have a Sion jungle. Just need an ADC with a shield now hue.
On March 29 2013 23:51 zer0das wrote: She feels strong.
I want to see a Thresh top, Karma support, and Lux mid. Shields, shields everywhere! Or maybe Karma top would be better, since Thresh gets free AP from souls anyways. Could have a Sion jungle. Just need an ADC with a shield now hue.
On March 30 2013 01:25 Dusty wrote: I just noticed that whoever made the runes stats at the end of the Karma spotlight failed to calculate the correct value for 9x hp/lvl seals
1.08 x 18 = 19.44 (video says 12.96). Plus thats only for one rune.
On March 30 2013 00:11 Zhiroo wrote: So sad that Karma is an AP carry/support instead of a full fledged support.
she never was and never will be a good suppor because she doesn't have a real ultimate she will never surpass lulu or sona or others in support power. Her kit was always based around throughput and scaled well with ap so I don't know why you'd be sad at all. IF you wanted her to be a support you'd need a whole new champion design and why not just make a new champ?
the only reason anyone ever thought she would be a good support is that riot said "oh she's support guyz" when riot made her a suppor tin the sense that morgana and orianna are "supports" but not 0 farm bot lane babysit supports.
On March 30 2013 01:25 Dusty wrote: I just noticed that whoever made the runes stats at the end of the Karma spotlight failed to calculate the correct value for 9x hp/lvl seals
1.08 x 18 = 19.44 (video says 12.96). Plus thats only for one rune.
Damn interns.
I blame Smash.
Probably still angry he died in yet another spotlight.
On March 30 2013 01:25 Dusty wrote: I just noticed that whoever made the runes stats at the end of the Karma spotlight failed to calculate the correct value for 9x hp/lvl seals
1.08 x 18 = 19.44 (video says 12.96). Plus thats only for one rune.
Damn interns.
I blame Smash.
Maybe we will get 12 runeslots or 1.44 hp/lvl runes soon !
Ama request: Smash. How is it working at Riot? Free soda? Do you get time to play on certain days? Nap rooms? OMG and what's your daily work? Do you have to play Phreak a lot so he can kill you and get footage for spotlights?
On March 30 2013 02:07 obesechicken13 wrote: Ama request: Smash. How is it working at Riot? Free soda? Do you get time to play on certain days? Nap rooms? OMG and what's your daily work? Do you have to play Phreak a lot so he can kill you and get footage for spotlights?
Well, he lives with phreak/janook, so I'm sure smash gets beat down on a regular basis ;P
Is red pot ward + 4 hp pots really a standard top opening now, or am I just seeing it because every other person on the chinese server is trying some cheesey all-in?
On March 30 2013 02:10 Vanka wrote: Is red pot ward + 4 hp pots really a standard top opening now, or am I just seeing it because every other person on the chinese server is trying some cheesey all-in?
It's my goto if I feel I have a matchup advantage.
On March 30 2013 02:10 Vanka wrote: Is red pot ward + 4 hp pots really a standard top opening now, or am I just seeing it because every other person on the chinese server is trying some cheesey all-in?
Pretty standard. I see it in like 35% of my games, otherwise they go cloth 5 or 2ward9pot or faire,ward,3hp3mp.
On March 30 2013 02:07 obesechicken13 wrote: Ama request: Smash. How is it working at Riot? Free soda? Do you get time to play on certain days? Nap rooms? OMG and what's your daily work? Do you have to play Phreak a lot so he can kill you and get footage for spotlights?
Clearly too busy having fun than working. Letting karma slip through as is, should be proof of this.
On March 30 2013 02:10 Vanka wrote: Is red pot ward + 4 hp pots really a standard top opening now, or am I just seeing it because every other person on the chinese server is trying some cheesey all-in?
It's pretty good at saving your ass from early ganks too. Can't count how many times I should have died from ignite, only to live with ~60 hp because of red pot.
On March 30 2013 02:07 obesechicken13 wrote: Ama request: Smash. How is it working at Riot? Free soda? Do you get time to play on certain days? Nap rooms? OMG and what's your daily work? Do you have to play Phreak a lot so he can kill you and get footage for spotlights?
everyone I talked to at riot seemed super thrilled to be there, except for one guy who seemed pretty bummed and a tall guy with a light russian accent who, when asked about santa monica, replied with "don't be fooled-- everything here is fake". They also have an absurd number of really nice computers set up for gaming that are just used recreationally, and a small area for fighting games with sticks and all. it's absurd how nice their office is.
On March 30 2013 00:11 Zhiroo wrote: So sad that Karma is an AP carry/support instead of a full fledged support.
Slow, root, and shield. Were you hoping for something else while keeping her mantra mechanic?
Sounds similar to Lux. Just a Mantra instread of wtf laser.
Old Karma had an AoE heal, slow, and shield. She's obviously not a support. She scales too well with items. In order for that to be balanced she has to scale less well without items. Heals and shields scale off of armor, mr, cdr, and AP.
It's the reason why you don't see support Nidalee in pro games. A 0/low AP heal is very weak so most of her utility is in the Aspd buff and mr shred. Support Nidalee's Q, and cougar form abilities are all nearly worthless unless she gets fed.
By the way, I was racking my head yesterday trying to figure out how Diana and Taric killed like 4 people in a 2v4 yesterday.
I know Diana's shield is strong for duels and that both of them were fed 3-4 levels, and Diana had an extra item, but Taric was a support. And then Diana's autos seemed to do so much damage. Like Her passive was proccing 2 times as much as what I expected. Irelia ran out of mana. Veigar and Sona didn't have ult. Diana avoided Veigar's W. Vi died early.
I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but all the talk on reddit seems to be about Muramana on Karma. The active effect applies on every tick of her W, so it ends up doing quite a bit of damage. I'm not convinced though - is an item that gives only mana and AD even worth it on a champ like Karma who has absurd AP ratios? Would RoA + Manamune even compare to Deathcap + Morellonomicon/Athene's?
Taric passive + Diana shield is ridiculously strong. Also if you watch the Diana, she dodged A LOT of damage with the zhonya's active. Also Taric ulti is purty good aura.
On March 30 2013 02:28 Mensol wrote: Most of singed players dont make tear of the goddess, can anyone explain me why?
it gives good amount hp and mana :o
It depends on what league your playing in, because I know at the lower levels players just aren't experienced enough to get it.
maybe they're just playing a match-up where they can't afford to get it, afford in the sense that losing out on the gold would decrease their ability to stay in lane compared to Armor, MR or pots. There's plenty of reasons not to get it.
On March 30 2013 02:28 Mensol wrote: Most of singed players dont make tear of the goddess, can anyone explain me why?
it gives good amount hp and mana :o
It depends on what league your playing in, because I know at the lower levels players just aren't experienced enough to get it.
its not about league. im watching euw high elo/challenger games and its very rare to see singed with tear of goddess.
i think i watched like 8-10 high elo game with singed and none of them made tear of goddess. Also dKiwiKid played singed without tear yesterday.
TotG is sort of a crappy item to have to open up with, especially if you're in a lane where you can get owned pre-6 pretty hard. initial 250 mana, ain't gunna do singed any fucking favors in the opening of the game.
And by the time you reach the point where it's safe to get TotG, it's a bit late.
But, if you can get away with starting TotG, more power to you, but it's a actually a huge gold sink early on.
On March 30 2013 02:39 wei2coolman wrote: Taric passive + Diana shield is ridiculously strong. Also if you watch the Diana, she dodged A LOT of damage with the zhonya's active. Also Taric ulti is purty good aura.
She dodged only Veigar's W. No other skillshots were fired at that time, and everyone should have switched to Taric earlier for a second.
Did Veigar and Graves not have any defensive runes or something?
On March 30 2013 02:28 Mensol wrote: Most of singed players dont make tear of the goddess, can anyone explain me why?
it gives good amount hp and mana :o
Mana is an attribute you don't want to build but only build if you have to. I don't think Singed needs mana. Could be wrong.
If Karma's W procs muramana on every tick then I might buy Karma and try it out. If it's 4 ticks? and 6% of her current mana(1500=1000 from muramana + 500 base) is ~360 damage then that'd be similar to like 200 AP on a full combo towards single targets. At the least it's not intended and has the chance to be broken.
On March 30 2013 02:39 c.Deadly wrote: I don't know if anyone has brought this up, but all the talk on reddit seems to be about Muramana on Karma. The active effect applies on every tick of her W, so it ends up doing quite a bit of damage. I'm not convinced though - is an item that gives only mana and AD even worth it on a champ like Karma who has absurd AP ratios? Would RoA + Manamune even compare to Deathcap + Morellonomicon/Athene's?
It's not like syndra builds a muramana all the time even though it has amazing synergy with one of her abilities. And Ryze is probably the #1 abuser of muramana and he's still balanced despite that, so I'm not too worried about muramana karma
What's interesting is that it means Muramana doesn't work with DoTs, but works with periodic damage. Like, if Karthus' Defile or Rumble's ult was single target, it'd proc Muramana (but Cass' W wouldn't as it's a renewed DoT).
On March 30 2013 02:59 Alaric wrote: What's interesting is that it means Muramana doesn't work with DoTs, but works with periodic damage. Like, if Karthus' Defile or Rumble's ult was single target, it'd proc Muramana (but Cass' W wouldn't as it's a renewed DoT).
On March 30 2013 02:39 wei2coolman wrote: Taric passive + Diana shield is ridiculously strong. Also if you watch the Diana, she dodged A LOT of damage with the zhonya's active. Also Taric ulti is purty good aura.
She dodged only Veigar's W. No other skillshots were fired at that time, and everyone should have switched to Taric earlier for a second.
Did Veigar and Graves not have any defensive runes or something?
She dodged the W & Q from veigar; but you also got to keep in mind, no one could attack her at that time when they were grouped up on her. And the second zhonya's ended, 3 people were grouped on her ass. So her passive hit EVERYONE + AoE from her Q, and her W is an AoE as well. So pretty much stacking on top of Diana is a very bad idea.
I have been trying around with Kennen Top, and it just didnt go very well. Should I just try to farm and not bother too much with harrasing? Is it better to get ignite or teleport? (assuming you go against someone who is hard to kill)? Does anyone know a good guide that also talks about matchups?
On March 30 2013 02:28 Mensol wrote: Most of singed players dont make tear of the goddess, can anyone explain me why?
it gives good amount hp and mana :o
It depends on what league your playing in, because I know at the lower levels players just aren't experienced enough to get it.
its not about league. im watching euw high elo/challenger games and its very rare to see singed with tear of goddess.
i think i watched like 8-10 high elo game with singed and none of them made tear of goddess. Also dKiwiKid played singed without tear yesterday.
TotG is sort of a crappy item to have to open up with, especially if you're in a lane where you can get owned pre-6 pretty hard. initial 250 mana, ain't gunna do singed any fucking favors in the opening of the game.
And by the time you reach the point where it's safe to get TotG, it's a bit late.
But, if you can get away with starting TotG, more power to you, but it's a actually a huge gold sink early on.
With singed you can stack the tear very fast. I often get it after the rod of the ages and then finish my boots upgrade before getting the archangels staff.
On March 30 2013 02:07 obesechicken13 wrote: Ama request: Smash. How is it working at Riot? Free soda? Do you get time to play on certain days? Nap rooms? OMG and what's your daily work? Do you have to play Phreak a lot so he can kill you and get footage for spotlights?
It's pretty standard perks for gamedev to have free mountain dew and cheetos in the office. I'm so sick of mountain dew and cheetos.
RoA, Muramana, and Seraphs, alongside Liandry's for % health tick.
OK sure, if you feed the fuck out of her and let her get whatever items she wants, she turns into LeBlanc. I doubt that's going to be every game though.
On March 30 2013 03:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: I have been trying around with Kennen Top, and it just didnt go very well. Should I just try to farm and not bother too much with harrasing? Is it better to get ignite or teleport? (assuming you go against someone who is hard to kill)? Does anyone know a good guide that also talks about matchups?
RoA, Muramana, and Seraphs, alongside Liandry's for % health tick.
OK sure, if you feed the fuck out of her and let her get whatever items she wants, she turns into LeBlanc. I doubt that's going to be every game though.
About to say, might need a little more context after looking at her items. Still looks really strong.
On March 30 2013 03:42 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Damnit, I had saved up for either Vi or Voli, but a 2 for 1 (even if I don't use the pages) is probably too good to pass up.
edit: Also apparently they disabled leona because of a bug, guess I'm not playing ranked until it's fixed lol.
yeah. Leona was crashing the entire game if she used zenith blade on a champ but was unable to jump to the champ for any reason (zhonya's, vlad pool, death). Like, crashing the entire game. All 10 people. Game stops existing.
Actually there is a huge damage difference between the active and the nonactive which is what the clip was trying to illustrate. It was ten times the non active damage or so.
It's more an issue of how big the damage decrease is when it gets toggled off.
Except it wouldn't fly in a real game. You go straight AP, with 3 mana items, and she ran around attacking bots who barely even hit back and were underfed (probably not having more than 1 MR item per bot, if that).
You know what? If you manage to win a game so hard that you can build RoA/Muramana/Serpah with no defenses on the other team and without getting focused to death, you deserve to 1 shot people, because you've clearly already won that game.
So now I have 4 rune pages and like 16 champs. Wonder if I should save up for another 2 rune pages or just spend ip on runes. Think I remember Yango saying 4 was enough for non top tier play but can't find post :<
On March 30 2013 03:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: I have been trying around with Kennen Top, and it just didnt go very well. Should I just try to farm and not bother too much with harrasing? Is it better to get ignite or teleport? (assuming you go against someone who is hard to kill)? Does anyone know a good guide that also talks about matchups?
Actually there is a huge damage difference between the active and the nonactive which is what the clip was trying to illustrate. It was ten times the non active damage or so.
The difference wouldn't be so large if he didn't have that much stacked mana. You wouldn't be able to achieve stacking a muramana AND an archangel's in a realistic game.
On March 30 2013 03:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: I have been trying around with Kennen Top, and it just didnt go very well. Should I just try to farm and not bother too much with harrasing? Is it better to get ignite or teleport? (assuming you go against someone who is hard to kill)? Does anyone know a good guide that also talks about matchups?
Well, but the person who wrote teh guide is in gold I, thats like reading sc2 guides from someone in platinum or diamond
There is actually a surprising amount of thought behind playing Kennen in lane. So some basic stuff going into it first, hybrid pen marks are amazing on Kennen. Especially considering how auto attack oriented he can become. What are you maxing first? W or Q? There are some definitely neat tricks with kennen, such as forcing people off creep with just his W passive. Pretty much you can get 2 charges fairly easily with kennen. 1 charge through W auto attacks, and 2nd charge with W active. Remember, the threat of a stun has more leverage than the actual stun itself.
So you can always try this shenanigans when playing kennen. Pretty much charge up your passive, then try and mark them (but don't over commit). Let that one charge sit on them for max amount of time, then activate Electrical Surge, by then you should already of had another 4-5 auto attacks/last hits, and your passive is charged again. So you can get the 3rd mark easy. When you get to this point you can either force him off creeps through brush control rush, or if he stays around, get the easy stun+harass. Q seems like a great way to initiate marks and harassment, but in reality its actually a better counter-initiate move. When opponents see you blow your Q on a miss, they have a lot more leeway in jumping all over you.
Also, another tip is, when pushing the wave, walk past creep wave, then lightning rush backwards towards your side, prevents you from getting caught as badly by enemy top laner/jungler.
On March 30 2013 02:39 wei2coolman wrote: Taric passive + Diana shield is ridiculously strong. Also if you watch the Diana, she dodged A LOT of damage with the zhonya's active. Also Taric ulti is purty good aura.
She dodged only Veigar's W. No other skillshots were fired at that time, and everyone should have switched to Taric earlier for a second.
Did Veigar and Graves not have any defensive runes or something?
She dodged the W & Q from veigar; but you also got to keep in mind, no one could attack her at that time when they were grouped up on her. And the second zhonya's ended, 3 people were grouped on her ass. So her passive hit EVERYONE + AoE from her Q, and her W is an AoE as well. So pretty much stacking on top of Diana is a very bad idea.
I think the Q hit Taric but not sure. Anyways it makes sense now. 2 AoE from Diana and 2 from Taric is enough to win a 2v4 if 3 of their targets were in range of all 4 AoE.
On March 30 2013 04:01 Numy wrote: So now I have 4 rune pages and like 16 champs. Wonder if I should save up for another 2 rune pages or just spend ip on runes. Think I remember Yango saying 4 was enough for non top tier play but can't find post :<
The 2-for-1 deal on rune pages is great, I'd grab it if you can. I have 9 pages and i'm planning on trying to farm up enough IP to grab the deal
On March 30 2013 03:42 SnK-Arcbound wrote: Damnit, I had saved up for either Vi or Voli, but a 2 for 1 (even if I don't use the pages) is probably too good to pass up.
edit: Also apparently they disabled leona because of a bug, guess I'm not playing ranked until it's fixed lol.
yeah. Leona was crashing the entire game if she used zenith blade on a champ but was unable to jump to the champ for any reason (zhonya's, vlad pool, death). Like, crashing the entire game. All 10 people. Game stops existing.
On March 30 2013 02:59 Alaric wrote: What's interesting is that it means Muramana doesn't work with DoTs, but works with periodic damage. Like, if Karthus' Defile or Rumble's ult was single target, it'd proc Muramana (but Cass' W wouldn't as it's a renewed DoT).
This made me think of something else - Does Rylai's slow for the full amount (35%) on Karma's W, since it doesn't seem to behave like a DoT? That could potentially be really strong.
On March 30 2013 05:09 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuck. FUUUUCK I can actually play for like 2 days now, first chance I get in months and the servers go to shit. GG.
just went into the game not really looking seleced the bottom option under pvp and played the most epic comebacks only to find out ranked had been down the entire time zzz
er is it down? I can't find anyone else saying it's down but I can't select ranked wtf
Welcome, guys, to... the twilight dimension EUW servers! (Best thing is it works both literally and figuratively: EUW is like that pretty often after patches, and has much more downtimes, but right now it works so you can come here. )
Also Karma's W deals damage thrice per second, which is 6 applications of Muramana. Of course with the 3k+ mana that Karma had it's going to hurt, that's more than 1k magic damage on top of the spell, and bot underfed enough that they have no HP.
On March 30 2013 03:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: I have been trying around with Kennen Top, and it just didnt go very well. Should I just try to farm and not bother too much with harrasing? Is it better to get ignite or teleport? (assuming you go against someone who is hard to kill)? Does anyone know a good guide that also talks about matchups?
Kennen is still ok in his current form, he was much better a few months ago when he had longer Q range and there were fewer gap closing assassins.
Kennen's strength is being able to harass and poke melee bruisers with the better end of the trade. If you're playing a gap closer, you need to be able to QWE quickly. For example, if Renekton is Slice and Dicing towards you, you need to be able to stun him as he's coming in before he stuns you.
R > Q > W > E, Zhonya should be your first core item. I prefer TP Top, Ignite Mid.
On March 30 2013 05:45 wei2coolman wrote: R>W>Q>E also works imo; depending how much you can getaway on harassing opponents with auto attacks.
I assume this is your addendum to my Kennen post. W max first is ok but only if you're honestly terribad at skill shots. But to be fair, Kennen's Q has a different feel compare to skillshot roots (imoimo).
But not maxing Q first, there's a noticeable drop in your burst.
On March 30 2013 05:45 wei2coolman wrote: R>W>Q>E also works imo; depending how much you can getaway on harassing opponents with auto attacks.
I assume this is your addendum to my Kennen post. W max first is ok but only if you're honestly terribad at skill shots. But to be fair, Kennen's Q has a different feel compare to skillshot roots (imoimo).
But not maxing Q first, there's a noticeable drop in your burst.
Yeah, but W max makes winning lane surprisingly easy. Also makes early dblade a bit stronger.
Mantra'd E on Karma makes like a 2K difference in HP on the teamfight-- you shield your whole team and damage the whole other team. It's literally press R E to win.
How large is the AoE? Also maxing W on Kennen is a way to say "Hey, you there, hiding in your creep wave—fuck you!" pretty efficiently. As long as you can Q well enough to last hit (think Mundo top), having your W passive primed is an excellent zoning tool. This works with Q first too but if you can't really use Q, then...
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is so good. At this rate, I'm not going to play League the upcoming week.
First Impression of Karma: She's definitely better as a Top Laner. She doesn't seem to have enough consistent damage to instantly burst down an opponent like a mid laner but she has sustain and a shield that works well in the drawn out trades of Top. If her opponent at top is melee then she can utilize her autoattack more which would greatly increase her CD. QEWEQ, Q > E > W. Her shield can also deal damage if combined with mantra so if someone with a gap closer comes in, RE, W, Q while kiting backward with autoattacks should be enough to disengage and come out ahead in the trade.
On paper her burst without autos is stronger than Orianna's at level 6. It's not about bursting your opponent, there should be a copious amount of pew pew going on before you try to finish off your opponent.
Below: Yes. Isn't it nice? I'm not going to run short soon. <3 (Plus it's over 8 more-or-less independant "parts" so it's not like you're reading Naruto or stuff like that that never ends.)
On March 30 2013 06:06 Alaric wrote: How large is the AoE? Also maxing W on Kennen is a way to say "Hey, you there, hiding in your creep wave—fuck you!" pretty efficiently. As long as you can Q well enough to last hit (think Mundo top), having your W passive primed is an excellent zoning tool. This works with Q first too but if you can't really use Q, then...
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is so good. At this rate, I'm not going to play League the upcoming week.
Jojo has so many CHAPTERS! I swear, there's over 100 volumes o.o
On March 30 2013 06:06 Alaric wrote: How large is the AoE? Also maxing W on Kennen is a way to say "Hey, you there, hiding in your creep wave—fuck you!" pretty efficiently. As long as you can Q well enough to last hit (think Mundo top), having your W passive primed is an excellent zoning tool. This works with Q first too but if you can't really use Q, then...
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is so good. At this rate, I'm not going to play League the upcoming week.
Jojo has so many CHAPTERS! I swear, there's over 100 volumes o.o
I'm just watching the current anime and it's the best I've seen in years. I'll probably follow the manga if I can't wait for another season.
On March 30 2013 06:42 AsianEcksDragon wrote: First Impression of Karma: She's definitely better as a Top Laner. She doesn't seem to have enough consistent damage to instantly burst down an opponent like a mid laner but she has sustain and a shield that works well in the drawn out trades of Top. If her opponent at top is melee then she can utilize her autoattack more which would greatly increase her CD. QEWEQ, Q > E > W. Her shield can also deal damage if combined with mantra so if someone with a gap closer comes in, RE, W, Q while kiting backward with autoattacks should be enough to disengage and come out ahead in the trade.
I am not convinced. She has almost no sustain and she is squishy.
I think Karma may have some potential, but she seems awfully difficult to play correctly. Also her Q is so weird.
First thing I thought about Karma is to buy fort pot, skill W and start to all-in with autos at level 1 and hope that your opponent starts trading autos back, With the heal and damage on mantra W it should be easy to win the lvl 1 exchange and dominate the lane from there. No real idea though, need to try her.
On March 30 2013 06:06 Alaric wrote: How large is the AoE? Also maxing W on Kennen is a way to say "Hey, you there, hiding in your creep wave—fuck you!" pretty efficiently. As long as you can Q well enough to last hit (think Mundo top), having your W passive primed is an excellent zoning tool. This works with Q first too but if you can't really use Q, then...
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure is so good. At this rate, I'm not going to play League the upcoming week.
Q max Kennen never works for me. People are too smart for it.
On March 30 2013 06:42 AsianEcksDragon wrote: First Impression of Karma: She's definitely better as a Top Laner. She doesn't seem to have enough consistent damage to instantly burst down an opponent like a mid laner but she has sustain and a shield that works well in the drawn out trades of Top. If her opponent at top is melee then she can utilize her autoattack more which would greatly increase her CD. QEWEQ, Q > E > W. Her shield can also deal damage if combined with mantra so if someone with a gap closer comes in, RE, W, Q while kiting backward with autoattacks should be enough to disengage and come out ahead in the trade.
I am not convinced. She has almost no sustain and she is squishy.
I think Karma may have some potential, but she seems awfully difficult to play correctly. Also her Q is so weird.
when every1 and their mother starts with a gazillion pots nowadays, I see low sustain as being less and less of an issue. Plus, her shield is pretty good at mitigating dmg.
On March 28 2013 11:13 OutlaW- wrote: Turrets buffed by 10%. I'm out of here. Baron nerfed, too. Riot is trying to enforce the meta pretty hard... I don't know whether I should feel sad or disappointed. Buffing turrets is pretty much the worst thing they could have done. The game is already so boring in the first minutes because turrets protect everyone from dying. It's also another nerf to roaming. Is my feeling of disgust unjustified?
No, it's not. If anything turrets should've been nerfed. Tower diving is already brutally hard in this game compared to other mobas. It's also kind of apparent that Riot dislikes the fast push style that the Koreans popularized with the turret buffs and the nerf to minions.
Someone will most likely stomp me into the ground for this but honestly turrets are annoying as hell but by midgame essentially useless vs people who can dive them, if I play well and go leapin around my turret doing my best to live I'd like to be rewarded with a kill after I go down rather then the guy getting away no problem thanks to turrets not being an issue till the 5th+shot. Conversely, indirect buff to ohmwrecker?
If I outplay you in lane you shouldn't be able to hide behind your turret that does all of my health in three seconds.
It's a lot harder to out play someone in lane, get a big advantage, and then be helpless to kill them without a gank because your turret is too strong than it is to "outplay" someone who's attempting to tower dive you. Even before these buffs it was nearly impossible, or else really really difficult, to tower dive someone early if they had any form of hard CC.
If I outplay someone and they stick around with half HP or less I should be able to punish them. With stronger turrets I can't punish them much at all.
If you're outplaying someone and he's hiding behind his turret then you shouldn't let minions reach the turret. If it does reach the turret then you are free to roam/counterjungle knowing that if he follows he won't beat you anyway and will lose an entire wave to turret.
On March 30 2013 07:20 NeoIllusions wrote: wtf Karma. If you don't have a jump, how do you escape from the tether. My poor Ryze (pretty bad to begin with) cried.
Don't you stun her as soon as she tethers and walk away.
On March 30 2013 07:20 NeoIllusions wrote: wtf Karma. If you don't have a jump, how do you escape from the tether. My poor Ryze (pretty bad to begin with) cried.
Don't you stun her as soon as she tethers and walk away.
On March 30 2013 07:20 NeoIllusions wrote: wtf Karma. If you don't have a jump, how do you escape from the tether. My poor Ryze (pretty bad to begin with) cried.
I think is the closest I've ever seen Neo to QQ in GD xD
But the tether ranges are usually higher than the cast ranges, and level 1 rune prison may not cut it. What's the cast range btw? Wiki isn't updated on that.
Just want to give advice:don't que on friday night.I just played 2 bronze games and I am d5 with a d1 duoq.Top laner 55 cs in 39 minutes and a draven/soraka who managed to lose to vayne/taric rofl.
On March 30 2013 07:20 NeoIllusions wrote: wtf Karma. If you don't have a jump, how do you escape from the tether. My poor Ryze (pretty bad to begin with) cried.
I blame shit OP MoonBear for not adding the white box of text at the top of the thread, allowing QQing kids like this guy here to just cry about what he sucks against, further making GD a cesspool of complete shit.
On March 30 2013 07:28 nafta wrote: Just want to give advice:don't que on friday night.I just played 2 bronze games and I am d5 with a d1 duoq.Top laner 55 cs in 39 minutes and a draven/soraka who managed to lose to vayne/taric rofl.
you didn't see this coming when they paired Soraka with Draven?
On March 30 2013 03:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: I have been trying around with Kennen Top, and it just didnt go very well. Should I just try to farm and not bother too much with harrasing? Is it better to get ignite or teleport? (assuming you go against someone who is hard to kill)? Does anyone know a good guide that also talks about matchups?
Kennen is still ok in his current form, he was much better a few months ago when he had longer Q range and there were fewer gap closing assassins.
Kennen's strength is being able to harass and poke melee bruisers with the better end of the trade. If you're playing a gap closer, you need to be able to QWE quickly. For example, if Renekton is Slice and Dicing towards you, you need to be able to stun him as he's coming in before he stuns you.
R > Q > W > E, Zhonya should be your first core item. I prefer TP Top, Ignite Mid.
i checked koreans and they go for QEWWWRW. i feel like you dont really hit much with your Q in laning phase because they just stand behind minions and wont get hit
On March 30 2013 03:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: I have been trying around with Kennen Top, and it just didnt go very well. Should I just try to farm and not bother too much with harrasing? Is it better to get ignite or teleport? (assuming you go against someone who is hard to kill)? Does anyone know a good guide that also talks about matchups?
Kennen is still ok in his current form, he was much better a few months ago when he had longer Q range and there were fewer gap closing assassins.
Kennen's strength is being able to harass and poke melee bruisers with the better end of the trade. If you're playing a gap closer, you need to be able to QWE quickly. For example, if Renekton is Slice and Dicing towards you, you need to be able to stun him as he's coming in before he stuns you.
R > Q > W > E, Zhonya should be your first core item. I prefer TP Top, Ignite Mid.
i checked koreans and they go for QEWWWRW. i feel like you dont really hit much with your Q in laning phase because they just stand behind minions and wont get hit
Well, due to the length and design of Top lane, I can agree that perhaps W max functions better. Mid I would still do Q first since there's less room to maneuver.
Gogo try again and come back with your findings. :D
On March 30 2013 07:28 nafta wrote: Just want to give advice:don't que on friday night.I just played 2 bronze games and I am d5 with a d1 duoq.Top laner 55 cs in 39 minutes and a draven/soraka who managed to lose to vayne/taric rofl.
on the other hand, friday night dota 2 is the hardest game i've ever played. my friday night dota 2 record has to be something like 1-29.
but iirc friday night LoL is either really miserable or really easy depending on which teammates you get.
On March 30 2013 07:28 nafta wrote: Just want to give advice:don't que on friday night.I just played 2 bronze games and I am d5 with a d1 duoq.Top laner 55 cs in 39 minutes and a draven/soraka who managed to lose to vayne/taric rofl.
you didn't see this coming when they paired Soraka with Draven?
Well I expected the soraka to not be very smart.The other guy doesn't really affect the support's choice for champs.But I have to admit I was quite amazed by his d1 skills.Like it's friday maybe people play drunk or something but still.
On March 30 2013 03:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: I have been trying around with Kennen Top, and it just didnt go very well. Should I just try to farm and not bother too much with harrasing? Is it better to get ignite or teleport? (assuming you go against someone who is hard to kill)? Does anyone know a good guide that also talks about matchups?
Kennen is still ok in his current form, he was much better a few months ago when he had longer Q range and there were fewer gap closing assassins.
Kennen's strength is being able to harass and poke melee bruisers with the better end of the trade. If you're playing a gap closer, you need to be able to QWE quickly. For example, if Renekton is Slice and Dicing towards you, you need to be able to stun him as he's coming in before he stuns you.
R > Q > W > E, Zhonya should be your first core item. I prefer TP Top, Ignite Mid.
i checked koreans and they go for QEWWWRW. i feel like you dont really hit much with your Q in laning phase because they just stand behind minions and wont get hit
Well, due to the length and design of Top lane, I can agree that perhaps W max functions better. Mid I would still do Q first since there's less room to maneuver.
Gogo try again and come back with your findings. :D
I also always max Q first on mid kennen. Top lane kennen i max W first unless I fall behind or my opponent can easily punish my autos.
On March 30 2013 08:04 NeoIllusions wrote: I pity all you gaiz who don't regularly play with a group of 5. :<
v-v Some of us don't have four friends..
Or four friends we'd trust in a team. v_v
I'm sure there are plenty of people on TL that are looking for other people to play with. Of course there's disparity in skill level but you could make it work. I find playing Normals with 3-4 friends a lot more fun than Ranked soloq to be honest lol.
On March 30 2013 08:04 NeoIllusions wrote: I pity all you gaiz who don't regularly play with a group of 5. :<
v-v Some of us don't have four friends..
Or four friends we'd trust in a team. v_v
I'm sure there are plenty of people on TL that are looking for other people to play with. Of course there's disparity in skill level but you could make it work. I find playing Normals with 3-4 friends a lot more fun than Ranked soloq to be honest lol.
I've got a bunch of people I know that I play with, just not for a ranked team.
On March 30 2013 08:04 NeoIllusions wrote: I pity all you gaiz who don't regularly play with a group of 5. :<
v-v Some of us don't have four friends..
so saddums :<
Edit: I really wonder why (or perhaps I'm just clueless) why there aren't more "cliques" on TL where our users actually play together. For me personally, I don't have that much time to mass games so grinding ranked isn't ideal for my time. So instead, I actually play a lot of normals with gandhisauce and the normal fun police. Good times to be had.
On March 30 2013 03:11 DarKFoRcE wrote: I have been trying around with Kennen Top, and it just didnt go very well. Should I just try to farm and not bother too much with harrasing? Is it better to get ignite or teleport? (assuming you go against someone who is hard to kill)? Does anyone know a good guide that also talks about matchups?
Kennen is still ok in his current form, he was much better a few months ago when he had longer Q range and there were fewer gap closing assassins.
Kennen's strength is being able to harass and poke melee bruisers with the better end of the trade. If you're playing a gap closer, you need to be able to QWE quickly. For example, if Renekton is Slice and Dicing towards you, you need to be able to stun him as he's coming in before he stuns you.
R > Q > W > E, Zhonya should be your first core item. I prefer TP Top, Ignite Mid.
i checked koreans and they go for QEWWWRW. i feel like you dont really hit much with your Q in laning phase because they just stand behind minions and wont get hit
Well, due to the length and design of Top lane, I can agree that perhaps W max functions better. Mid I would still do Q first since there's less room to maneuver.
Gogo try again and come back with your findings. :D
I knew W max was standard back when Kennen had le infinite auto attack range. Q max is objectively better though against ranged champions, though. The biggest issue with Q max I felt was that you were putting too much weight on a skill shot ability; so essentially if you missed your Q, opponent knew they could abuse the living shit out of it; also it's easier to dodge skill shots if you're playing defensive, however when you're jumping onto someone, it's far harder to dodge skillshot. Wasn't quite sure at modern Kennen (lulz no range) + 20 champions w/ 5 sec cd gap closer, skill leveling. I guess same principles still apply to his skill lvling.
On March 30 2013 07:20 NeoIllusions wrote: wtf Karma. If you don't have a jump, how do you escape from the tether. My poor Ryze (pretty bad to begin with) cried.
I blame shit OP MoonBear for not adding the white box of text at the top of the thread, allowing QQing kids like this guy here to just cry about what he sucks against, further making GD a cesspool of complete shit.
Could be worse, he could be making pokemon posts, or having a bipolar diatribe with his non-admin alter ego.
On March 30 2013 07:20 NeoIllusions wrote: wtf Karma. If you don't have a jump, how do you escape from the tether. My poor Ryze (pretty bad to begin with) cried.
I blame shit OP MoonBear for not adding the white box of text at the top of the thread, allowing QQing kids like this guy here to just cry about what he sucks against, further making GD a cesspool of complete shit.
lololol, it's my fault. I'll try to QQ less in GD. I AM SORRY GAIZ
On March 30 2013 08:22 NeoIllusions wrote: Edit: I really wonder why (or perhaps I'm just clueless) why there aren't more "cliques" on TL where our users actually play together. For me personally, I don't have that much time to mass games so grinding ranked isn't ideal for my time. So instead, I actually play a lot of normals with gandhisauce and the normal fun police. Good times to be had.
You're clueless duh.
Hang out in LiquidParty/LiquidPractice more or add Ares to your FL and play with us.
On March 30 2013 08:04 NeoIllusions wrote: I pity all you gaiz who don't regularly play with a group of 5. :<
v-v Some of us don't have four friends..
so saddums :<
Edit: I really wonder why (or perhaps I'm just clueless) why there aren't more "cliques" on TL where our users actually play together. For me personally, I don't have that much time to mass games so grinding ranked isn't ideal for my time. So instead, I actually play a lot of normals with gandhisauce and the normal fun police. Good times to be had.
I think it's a combination of the fact that ranked can't be played in stacks of 3 or 4, and normal is seen as a "second-class" queue because the vast majority of players at the top end play ranked over normals, even for casual games. So people end up feeling it's more "productive" to play solo queue than 3-4 stack normals, and it's too hard to get 5 together.
I'm curious to see how things would be if there was separation between ranked and normals, with no visible MMR and Riot just published the rank of the top 100 players by hidden MMR every week.
On March 30 2013 08:04 NeoIllusions wrote: I pity all you gaiz who don't regularly play with a group of 5. :<
v-v Some of us don't have four friends..
Or four friends we'd trust in a team. v_v
I'm sure there are plenty of people on TL that are looking for other people to play with. Of course there's disparity in skill level but you could make it work. I find playing Normals with 3-4 friends a lot more fun than Ranked soloq to be honest lol.
I've got a bunch of people I know that I play with, just not for a ranked team.
Oh yeah, that would be hard. Getting a group of similarly skilled players is a bit harder. I want to try but my friends are really opposed to the idea of just playing one role as they like to just play whatever they feel like. Maybe one of these days.
On March 30 2013 08:04 NeoIllusions wrote: I pity all you gaiz who don't regularly play with a group of 5. :<
v-v Some of us don't have four friends..
so saddums :<
Edit: I really wonder why (or perhaps I'm just clueless) why there aren't more "cliques" on TL where our users actually play together. For me personally, I don't have that much time to mass games so grinding ranked isn't ideal for my time. So instead, I actually play a lot of normals with gandhisauce and the normal fun police. Good times to be had.
i think there are cliques, they just don't post in GD that often.
i remember playing with swim quite a bit.
i also remember playing with red. i like that guy, he's hilarious.
also i've stopped playing solo q, mostly normals with friends too, games are good. sometimes arranged 5s if the team is up. it's such a relief when you can play this game and not be yelled at.
On March 30 2013 07:20 NeoIllusions wrote: wtf Karma. If you don't have a jump, how do you escape from the tether. My poor Ryze (pretty bad to begin with) cried.
I blame shit OP MoonBear for not adding the white box of text at the top of the thread, allowing QQing kids like this guy here to just cry about what he sucks against, further making GD a cesspool of complete shit.
lololol, it's my fault. I'll try to QQ less in GD. I AM SORRY GAIZ
Part (ranging from "none" to "most" depending on the time) of the fun comes from improving and trying to me, like some games I don't care about victory or my lane opponent, I'm just happy because using my knowledge from jungling I've predicted that the enemy jungler would be near my lane at time X and managed to avoid (or even bait) the gank. Since there aren't too many people on my fl at my level or slightly above/below, when I queue up in a premade it usually means fooling around, or having to tryhard on a protective champ (I used to almost exclusively play jungle Shen with some of them because none wanted to even go near the jungle, and most had no map awareness nor ability to assess their damage/stamina) so they don't get rolled by the better players my normal Elo will bring (of course it's not always like that, but I remember those cases because I'd be pigeonholed in such a role in every game and it'd quickly become boring/repetitive). So whenever my current mood is above "none" I can't really play as stacks much because trying to work my AD carry mechanics and have my support hit the Blitzcrank rather than the Kog during a 2v2, then ks-ing Kog right before I die, or doing nothing and suddenly Q the whole wave I set up for a Graves Q, stealing it whole, quickly gets ffrustrating. x_x
(And when it's with people really above me I just get depressed because I play like shit and feel like I'm weighing them down more than anything and ruining their fun.)
On March 29 2013 18:25 Eiii wrote: Only two champs' names' letters are in alphabetical order-- fizz and lux. But reverse-alphabetical has sona, vi, zed, and zyra!
I'm learning so many new things.
code plz? I find it interesting. How do I learn more about this?
So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
On March 30 2013 09:08 AsnSensation wrote: So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
Oh man, that sounds pretty scary. I didn't realize how short it was compared to her AA range.
On March 29 2013 18:25 Eiii wrote: Only two champs' names' letters are in alphabetical order-- fizz and lux. But reverse-alphabetical has sona, vi, zed, and zyra!
I'm learning so many new things.
code plz? I find it interesting. How do I learn more about this?
If you convert the characters to ascii numerical numbers and then put them as like base 100(or whatever you need to account for all the letters) then you can use a string reversal function.
In java where b is initialized as 0 and a is your name.
int a = your word in base 100 int b = 0 while(a!=0){ b = b*100 + a % 100; a = a/100;}
Java has a weird habit of rounding down on integer division. Doesn't just round.
On March 29 2013 18:25 Eiii wrote: Only two champs' names' letters are in alphabetical order-- fizz and lux. But reverse-alphabetical has sona, vi, zed, and zyra!
I'm learning so many new things.
code plz? I find it interesting. How do I learn more about this?
On March 30 2013 08:04 NeoIllusions wrote: I pity all you gaiz who don't regularly play with a group of 5. :<
v-v Some of us don't have four friends..
so saddums :<
Edit: I really wonder why (or perhaps I'm just clueless) why there aren't more "cliques" on TL where our users actually play together. For me personally, I don't have that much time to mass games so grinding ranked isn't ideal for my time. So instead, I actually play a lot of normals with gandhisauce and the normal fun police. Good times to be had.
Sorry not all of us have ginormous friends lists filled with pros and ex-pros and celebrity personalities!!!1!!1
I really don't mean this in a bragging way but I get invites to normals(and lately inhouses) from TL people all the time, I think we have a pretty solid group of pickup-norms players, but it's less cliquey and more 'these 20 dudes like to play normals, are generally alright at the game, and are enjoyable to play with/have a fun attitude.'
Talk about testing runes/masteries for jungle clears on the forum so somebody adds you by missclicking when he tries to look up your profile, then stalk him whenever you see him jungle so you learn from him for free. o> Or litter the QQ thread so people wonder if you rage that hard in games and add you for some reason. I swear it was all an elaborate plan from the beginning.
Edit: ^ fuck elaborate invades and counterjungle plans, just wait for Ghost Zac skin and freak people out by flying over a camp while they're doing it and disappearing into the fog right away.
Yeah, his jump looks like it has really long range. I just watched a game where he jumped a lot further than I expected, or what I think it looked like on PBE. It's a good initiation if you build him tanky.
On March 29 2013 18:25 Eiii wrote: Only two champs' names' letters are in alphabetical order-- fizz and lux. But reverse-alphabetical has sona, vi, zed, and zyra!
I'm learning so many new things.
code plz? I find it interesting. How do I learn more about this?
Actually sorry. Just convert to ascii numbers and compare one to the next. What I did reverses the characters.
On March 30 2013 09:08 AsnSensation wrote: So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
Riot giving so much love to the hypercarries lately, but nothing for my beloved graves
On March 30 2013 09:08 AsnSensation wrote: So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
Riot giving so much love to the hypercarries lately, but nothing for my beloved graves
considering how bullshit his reign was in S2; I'm okay with this.
On March 30 2013 09:08 AsnSensation wrote: So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
Riot giving so much love to the hypercarries lately, but nothing for my beloved graves
considering how bullshit his reign was in S2; I'm okay with this.
Every game without graves and ezrael is a good game
On March 30 2013 09:08 AsnSensation wrote: So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
Riot giving so much love to the hypercarries lately, but nothing for my beloved graves
considering how bullshit his reign was in S2; I'm okay with this.
Every game without graves and ezrael is a good game
Yeah, because MF is so much more fun.
I dunno, I can't remember a time when LoL didn't have like two-three ADCs that were in every game. I didn't mind S2 because I personally think that Corki/Graves/Ezreal are the three most fun ADCs to play anyway.
On March 30 2013 09:08 AsnSensation wrote: So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
Riot giving so much love to the hypercarries lately, but nothing for my beloved graves
considering how bullshit his reign was in S2; I'm okay with this.
Every game without graves and ezrael is a good game
Yeah, because MF is so much more fun.
I dunno, I can't remember a time when LoL didn't have like two-three ADCs that were in every game. I didn't mind S2 because I personally think that Corki/Graves/Ezreal are the three most fun ADCs to play anyway.
There are far more counterplay options against MF in s3, than there are counterplay options against Graves in s2.
I do miss Corki a bit, he went from Top 3 to unheard of. At least Ezreal and Graves have their place in certain comps (and I really think Graves has potential in a solo lane somehow). The only ADCs that I am not seeing as much as I want right now are Ashe and Corki. I could use a little less MF, and for botlane in general I would like to see a little less Lulu.
Huge weekend starting in less than a day for both NA and EU LCS. Can CLG stop the bleeding? Will Wolves continue to ravage the competition?
Enjoy the read. For TeamLiquid~
Some great content here. Good job ! I think this part is very interesting.
The top European teams in Season 3 have been drawn together by one common thread: the mid-lane playmaker. Their styles are diverse, from ocelote's preference for roaming, Alex Ich and Froggen’s more farm oriented styles, to xPeke's splitpushing and midgame pressure style that Bjergsen's game more closely resembles. With frequent 2v1 lanes preventing top laners from being consistently dominant, the first position mid laner has caused a subtle shift in AD carry choices in Europe. Miss Fortune, Varus and Graves have been popular and successful in recent weeks for Gambit, Evil Geniuses and SK Gaming. Miss Fortune and Graves provide AoE burst damage in addition to spacial control via Bullet Time and Smokescreen.
With top laners not getting the farm, because of 2on1 lanes and the general power decline of adc´s in s3 it seems the mid laner is more important than ever and teams with strong mids benefit the most. EG might be a little exception because Froggen hasnt fully adapted (read: he doesnt play Kha, Zed, Kass,TF) to S3 yet.
With CW I think we also have another phenomenon with their adc picks. To me it always seems they pick very strong early game heroes like the adc´s you mentioned or Renekton for example to at least go even in lane despite some skill disadvantages . So when Bjergsen wins his lane, he is usually the strongest champ on the field when the first teamfights happen. Its the mentality I often see in my silver games, where people go like "play safe dont feed and I got this" and its hard to feed with a early powerhouse like MF or Renekton.
Anyways just some thoughts from a newer player (silver scrub). Keep up the good work TL staff !
On March 30 2013 09:08 AsnSensation wrote: So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
Riot giving so much love to the hypercarries lately, but nothing for my beloved graves
considering how bullshit his reign was in S2; I'm okay with this.
Every game without graves and ezrael is a good game
On March 30 2013 09:08 AsnSensation wrote: So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
Riot giving so much love to the hypercarries lately, but nothing for my beloved graves
considering how bullshit his reign was in S2; I'm okay with this.
Every game without graves and ezrael is a good game
I see Caitlyn in almost every game I play. Havent seen an MF in ranked yet somehow. Overall, in season 3 I've seen every AD carry pretty much the same amount when neither team picks Caitlyn.
On March 30 2013 12:15 s.Q.uelched wrote: Can Kassadin's ulti be silenced? I just played a game where he teleport away even though I E him with Fiddlesticks long before he teleports.
On March 30 2013 09:57 SnK-Arcbound wrote: My Flist is filled with random low leveled people who observed a game randomly and wanted to friend me .
I have a question about this actually. How are people observing my games? I'm not ranked highly and I only play a couple of games A MONTH, but I get random people adding me because they somehow observed one of my games.
On March 30 2013 12:15 s.Q.uelched wrote: Can Kassadin's ulti be silenced? I just played a game where he teleport away even though I E him with Fiddlesticks long before he teleports.
On March 30 2013 09:57 SnK-Arcbound wrote: My Flist is filled with random low leveled people who observed a game randomly and wanted to friend me .
I have a question about this actually. How are people observing my games? I'm not ranked highly and I only play a couple of games A MONTH, but I get random people adding me because they somehow observed one of my games.
Featured games aren't exclusively very high rated people.
On March 30 2013 12:15 s.Q.uelched wrote: Can Kassadin's ulti be silenced? I just played a game where he teleport away even though I E him with Fiddlesticks long before he teleports.
Kassadin's R has a substantial cast time, but once he begins casting the R there's nothing you can do to stop him from reaching the destination short of killing him.
This is different from fiddle's R, which is channeled (as opposed to cast) before teleporting, meaning CCs will interrupt the channel.
Other notable examples are ezreal's E/R and lux's R, which have substantial cast times but since they are not channeled, CCs can't stop them once they start the cast.
On March 30 2013 09:08 AsnSensation wrote: So Vayne's condemn range will be increased to match her AA range, as a vayne player I say yay but pretty sure that's a huge buff and might make her op :D
Riot giving so much love to the hypercarries lately, but nothing for my beloved graves
considering how bullshit his reign was in S2; I'm okay with this.
Every game without graves and ezrael is a good game
Yeah, because MF is so much more fun.
I dunno, I can't remember a time when LoL didn't have like two-three ADCs that were in every game. I didn't mind S2 because I personally think that Corki/Graves/Ezreal are the three most fun ADCs to play anyway.
I'd say it's still better than when we were in the peak of the holy trinity around the end of Season 2. These days we see still regularly see Kog, MF, Draven, Trist, Vayne, Varus and (some) Graves. I do agree though, I wouldn't mind seeing some Corki again, even though I was sick of him when he was super popular.
On March 30 2013 12:15 s.Q.uelched wrote: Can Kassadin's ulti be silenced? I just played a game where he teleport away even though I E him with Fiddlesticks long before he teleports.
Kassadin's R has a substantial cast time, but once he begins casting the R there's nothing you can do to stop him from reaching the destination short of killing him.
This is different from fiddle's R, which is channeled (as opposed to cast) before teleporting, meaning CCs will interrupt the channel.
Other notable examples are ezreal's E/R and lux's R, which have substantial cast times but since they are not channeled, CCs can't stop them once they start the cast.
On March 30 2013 13:44 randomKo_Orean wrote: So I played fuckload of Karma before the remake since beginning of season 2 (?) and she has been my favorite champion for a long time.
I played her (the reworked version) just now for the first time, and this is awful. Seriously, she's just a regular AP mid now with nothing real special about her.
I'm getting real sick with Riot reworking the champs that I play. First Eve (when she was total crap) and now Karma.
I guess I will be picking up Syndra now? inb4 Syndra remake
At least they released her essentially OP? That's some consolation. Too bad they couldn't make mantra more of a signature like I expected them to try to do. So much generic secondary effects :/
On March 30 2013 13:44 randomKo_Orean wrote: So I played fuckload of Karma before the remake since beginning of season 2 (?) and she has been my favorite champion for a long time.
I played her (the reworked version) just now for the first time, and this is awful. Seriously, she's just a regular AP mid now with nothing real special about her.
I'm getting real sick with Riot reworking the champs that I play. First Eve (when she was total crap) and now Karma.
I guess I will be picking up Syndra now? inb4 Syndra remake
I agree with your sentiments. i miss swagger and low health baits :<
Karma reworked into a generic AP mid aka Riot's tendency to change every champ into a generic blob. *riot in the board room* "gentleman, now that we worked karma into another generic AP mid, what next?" "I got an idea! WHY DON'T WE MAKE A GENERIC BLOB!? LITERALLY!" "Brilliant!" *Zac was born*
On March 30 2013 20:48 BlackPaladin wrote: They released an update which told you to log back in again and he's enabled now. Guess they fixed everything that was wrong.
Hmm... I remember looking at the notice when I was queueing and it still said he was disabled. Nothing about relogging. Oh well
On March 30 2013 19:48 BlackPaladin wrote: Karma reworked into a generic AP mid aka Riot's tendency to change every champ into a generic blob. *riot in the board room* "gentleman, now that we worked karma into another generic AP mid, what next?" "I got an idea! WHY DON'T WE MAKE A GENERIC BLOB!? LITERALLY!" "Brilliant!" *Zac was born*
Zac is so fun to play. The range of E is nothing sort of... Hilarious. How do you guys build him?
I play him jungle and like to go (in no set order): Sorc boots (or mercs vs heavy cc) Spectral Wraith Haunting Guise Spirit Visage Locket
Unsure about runes: * Red: Hybrid, MPen * Yellow: Armor * Blue: Mres, CDR, Mpen * Quint: Hybrid/MPen (depends on reds), Armor, Flat Health Regen
Haven't played a game to 6 items with him yet, but I'd imagine I'd go for another defensive item with HP. Have been considering getting some CDR runes (maxing CDR seems paramount on him) and switching Locket with Aegis.
Reasoning: I don't really think it's worth it to stack AP on him as jungle (expensive), but I'd rather use his %-based W with max CDR and MPen which makes his team fighting strong, relative fast compared to a more AP heavy build, by jump->ult->spam W.
On March 30 2013 19:48 BlackPaladin wrote: Karma reworked into a generic AP mid aka Riot's tendency to change every champ into a generic blob. *riot in the board room* "gentleman, now that we worked karma into another generic AP mid, what next?" "I got an idea! WHY DON'T WE MAKE A GENERIC BLOB!? LITERALLY!" "Brilliant!" *Zac was born*
IT MAKES SENSE! DON'T YOU LAUGH.
To be fair Riot tried a more conservative rework of Karma that preserved her unique points but even in internal tests they couldn't get it balanced. If they couldn't balance it internally you know it's bad. Not to say they couldn't have done a better job with this rework, though.
Does anyone who liked Karma pre-rework actually like her now? I hate her and so does everyone I've seen who liked old Karma. I don't get it they pretty much changed everything, why not just make a new champion with the new skillset? Ryze rework still kept all his spells intact, same with Xin.
I'm really not sure why they nerfed the horse again. Counterplay to self healing exists, it's not Hecarim's fault the player base still builds Athene's for no apparent reason when Voli/Heca are in the game.
This is one of those situations where Riot just should have said tough luck players you are on your own on this one.
As an additional note, I'm either really impressed that the holiday skins haven't leaked yet, or really sad that Riot thinks the player base does not look foreword to these things.
On March 30 2013 23:48 Slusher wrote: I'm really not sure why they nerfed the horse again. Counterplay to self healing exists, it's not Hecarim's fault the player base still builds Athene's for no apparent reason when Voli/Heca are in the game.
This is one of those situations where Riot just should have said tough luck players you are on your own on this one.
How could the cali nanny state mentality survive then?
On March 30 2013 19:48 BlackPaladin wrote: Karma reworked into a generic AP mid aka Riot's tendency to change every champ into a generic blob. *riot in the board room* "gentleman, now that we worked karma into another generic AP mid, what next?" "I got an idea! WHY DON'T WE MAKE A GENERIC BLOB!? LITERALLY!" "Brilliant!" *Zac was born*
IT MAKES SENSE! DON'T YOU LAUGH.
To be fair Riot tried a more conservative rework of Karma that preserved her unique points but even in internal tests they couldn't get it balanced. If they couldn't balance it internally you know it's bad. Not to say they couldn't have done a better job with this rework, though.
I disagree; her Q is so fucking generic. and her leash is pretty much a copy of leblancs leash. Passive isn't anything new either, it's a variation of Ryze's passive, except only on 1 ability. Which is pretty fucking silly since it should just be a passive attached to ult, rather than champ wide ult, when it only affects 1 ability. The only thing they kept in new Karma is shield + aoe dmg.
I've said this before, it's hard to defend my viewpoints on this when even I wouldn't have picked Karma in ranked in a million years but I thought her tether was the most interesting ability in her kit and now it's gone completely.
I think Riot will experence confirmation bias however, because she's pretty strong with her new kit so people will be like "This new kit is fucking retarded better ban or pick this shit." and Riot will hear "This champion is so much fun we should pick her super often so I can feel the joy of playing leblanc without having no utility."
On March 30 2013 19:48 BlackPaladin wrote: Karma reworked into a generic AP mid aka Riot's tendency to change every champ into a generic blob. *riot in the board room* "gentleman, now that we worked karma into another generic AP mid, what next?" "I got an idea! WHY DON'T WE MAKE A GENERIC BLOB!? LITERALLY!" "Brilliant!" *Zac was born*
IT MAKES SENSE! DON'T YOU LAUGH.
To be fair Riot tried a more conservative rework of Karma that preserved her unique points but even in internal tests they couldn't get it balanced. If they couldn't balance it internally you know it's bad. Not to say they couldn't have done a better job with this rework, though.
I disagree; her Q is so fucking generic. and her leash is pretty much a copy of leblancs leash. Passive isn't anything new either, it's a variation of Ryze's passive, except only on 1 ability. Which is pretty fucking silly since it should just be a passive attached to ult, rather than champ wide ult, when it only affects 1 ability. The only thing they kept in new Karma is shield + aoe dmg.
Personally if something is so imbalanced that Riot knows it even in internal testing I don't want it in my game. Think about it: Guinsoo's conservative Karma rework had to at least be release xin/leblanc levels of OP or crazy levels of "bleh" for Riot to work on it for a year and then give up on the approach. What do we think they were doing all that time, twiddling their thumbs and whistling?
Karma rework basically turned her into an utterly and completely different champion as they centered her playstyle around a completely new ability (q) instead of anything resembling her old shield+damage centric playstyle. So when people say that new Karma is "generic" I think they're mostly reacting to the complete loss of her playstyle since as it stands I think using Karma Q and Mantra-ing Q/E has a pretty distinct flavor from other AP mids. It's just nowhere near as unique as old Karma's style, which was a lot like AP Sion in lane (who is in a similar position) but with a lot more interesting play possible.
My little brother really liked Karma before the rework. Now he says she's weaker. I looked at her numbers. She doesn't look that weak, but it would be sad if Riot actually made Karma weaker after the remake. Win rates don't mean much considering the psychological effect.
On March 30 2013 19:48 BlackPaladin wrote: Karma reworked into a generic AP mid aka Riot's tendency to change every champ into a generic blob. *riot in the board room* "gentleman, now that we worked karma into another generic AP mid, what next?" "I got an idea! WHY DON'T WE MAKE A GENERIC BLOB!? LITERALLY!" "Brilliant!" *Zac was born*
IT MAKES SENSE! DON'T YOU LAUGH.
To be fair Riot tried a more conservative rework of Karma that preserved her unique points but even in internal tests they couldn't get it balanced. If they couldn't balance it internally you know it's bad. Not to say they couldn't have done a better job with this rework, though.
I disagree; her Q is so fucking generic. and her leash is pretty much a copy of leblancs leash. Passive isn't anything new either, it's a variation of Ryze's passive, except only on 1 ability. Which is pretty fucking silly since it should just be a passive attached to ult, rather than champ wide ult, when it only affects 1 ability. The only thing they kept in new Karma is shield + aoe dmg.
Personally if something is so imbalanced that Riot knows it even in internal testing I don't want it in my game. Think about it: Guinsoo's conservative Karma rework had to at least be release xin/leblanc levels of OP or crazy levels of "bleh" for Riot to work on it for a year and then give up on the approach. What do we think they were doing all that time, twiddling their thumbs and whistling?
Karma rework basically turned her into an utterly and completely different champion as they centered her playstyle around a completely new ability (q) instead of anything resembling her old shield+damage centric playstyle. So when people say that new Karma is "generic" I think they're mostly reacting to the complete loss of her playstyle since as it stands I think using Karma Q and Mantra-ing Q/E has a pretty distinct flavor from other AP mids. It's just nowhere near as unique as old Karma's style, which was a lot like AP Sion in lane (who is in a similar position) but with a lot more interesting play possible.
AoE slow buff from an ability is still pretty fucking boring, E is the only thing conserved from original Karma (and is unique ability).
and yes, I believe they were twiddling their thumbs and whistling. Didn't even bother number changes on any of her ability during the entire time.
On March 31 2013 00:44 obesechicken13 wrote: My little brother really liked Karma before the rework. Now he says she's weaker. I looked at her numbers. She doesn't look that weak, but it would be sad if Riot actually made Karma weaker after the remake. Win rates don't mean much considering the psychological effect.
I think she has some promise, but she loses a lot of her quirkiness with the remake.
On March 30 2013 23:39 Potatisodlaren wrote: Does anyone who liked Karma pre-rework actually like her now? I hate her and so does everyone I've seen who liked old Karma. I don't get it they pretty much changed everything, why not just make a new champion with the new skillset? Ryze rework still kept all his spells intact, same with Xin.
If you look at what Riot said with regards to the re-work, it's pretty clear they didn't want to keep her spells intact. Morello has a vendetta against healing (which I completely understand, knowing where Guild Wars wound up). She had a deceptively high burden of knowledge on the opposing team. We won a LOT of Karma games because the other team would get horrendously baited by a combination of passive, shield, and heal, and that is something Riot has at least said they want to avoid.
I'd actually posit that she was in a reasonable place pre-change, at least in terms of balance. The big problem, beyond the obvious trolling and role misassignment, which both contributed heavily to her awful winrate, was that her kit just doesn't belong in solo queue. Playing with a Karma on your team, even if you know exactly what she does, requires an incredible amount of trust. Her midgame was actually really similar to Zilean's, and we all know how he fares in solo queue.
Obviously the real problem is they were busy with the art design for Zac.
Honestly the most disappointing champion, art wise, that has even been introduced. When I saw the first preview thing, like the thing with the lab report and whatnot I pictured Slimer from ghostbusters, or like Jabba the hut, but when he the "reveal" comes out we see that it's just a human that is green. But in the shots we see a picture from what we now know is his ult where he is turned into a ball, and I thought mabye human is just his idle shape. Nope, imagine, on his Q if his hands turned into hammers and he smashed them together. Imagine on his E if he morphed into an actual slingshot, imagine the third jump of his ult he turns into an anvil, and even add a CLANG! sound effect. Instead we just have a green human with a recolor for a skin, what a dissapointment.
On March 31 2013 00:44 obesechicken13 wrote: My little brother really liked Karma before the rework. Now he says she's weaker. I looked at her numbers. She doesn't look that weak, but it would be sad if Riot actually made Karma weaker after the remake. Win rates don't mean much considering the psychological effect.
I think he's letting his opinion of the changes cloud his judgement. She deals tons of damage and still provides a lot of utility, it's just different utility than old Karma. Regardless of Q and W being "bland" (which I don't think they are that bad, not every champ can have a completely unique skill set) I think E is one of the coolest spells currently in the game.
On March 31 2013 00:52 Slusher wrote: Obviously the real problem is they were busy with the art design for Zac.
Honestly the most disappointing champion, art wise, that has even been introduced. When I saw the first preview thing, like the thing with the lab report and whatnot I pictured Slimer from ghostbusters, or like Jabba the hut, but when he the "reveal" comes out we see that it's just a human that is green. But in the shots we see a picture from what we now know is his ult where he is turned into a ball, and I thought mabye human is just his idle shape. Nope, imagine, on his Q if his hands turned into hammers and he smashed them together. Imagine on his E if he morphed into an actual slingshot, imagine the third jump of his ult he turns into an anvil, and even add a CLANG! sound effect. Instead we just have a green human with a recolor for a skin, what a dissapointment.
Especially with this longer champ development time, you would think they'd put more effort per champ too.
I kinda like her laning, but she feels awfully one dimensional now. Q doesn't feel rewarding to spam/hit, W is boring, Mantra doesn't feel rewarding. Bye Karma.
She's good enough now to warrant picking for Mantra'd E alone, so your going to see a shitload of her, and Riot is going to interpret it as "mission accomplished"
On March 31 2013 00:45 wei2coolman wrote: I think she has some promise, but she loses a lot of her quirkiness with the remake.
This encompasses a lot of what I don't like about Riot's process. They seem to have a very specific vision of where they want the game to go and are afraid to let it evolve organically. If she was really that underpowered, she wasn't hurting anything, unlike, say, an Evelyn.
On March 31 2013 00:44 obesechicken13 wrote: My little brother really liked Karma before the rework. Now he says she's weaker. I looked at her numbers. She doesn't look that weak, but it would be sad if Riot actually made Karma weaker after the remake. Win rates don't mean much considering the psychological effect.
I actually thought this at first, too. I think it's that if you try to play her even remotely like old Karma, you get butchered in lane. Literally all of her old playstyle-defining characteristics are gone, though some of the abilities bear token resemblance.
On March 31 2013 00:35 phyvo wrote:Karma rework basically turned her into an utterly and completely different champion as they centered her playstyle around a completely new ability (q) instead of anything resembling her old shield+damage centric playstyle. So when people say that new Karma is "generic" I think they're mostly reacting to the complete loss of her playstyle since as it stands I think using Karma Q and Mantra-ing Q/E has a pretty distinct flavor from other AP mids. It's just nowhere near as unique as old Karma's style, which was a lot like AP Sion in lane (who is in a similar position) but with a lot more interesting play possible.
I don't think I can agree with that. I played a lot of Karma and I play a lot of utility mids. New Karma really just feels like diet Lux to me. W is definitely the most unique aspect of her new kit (despite it existing on two other champs), and her other spells seem sort of aligned to support that, but it's pretty hard to max first and still have a reasonably good lane, and if you ever commit to proc'ing it and you are wrong--about anything: jungle position, burst, summoner cooldowns--you're dead.
Sion is actually a pretty good comparison that I hadn't considered because he's so far off the map. The major difference I think is that Sion wants to shove and gank sidelanes such that when he's in a strong state, he's really good at solo queue whereas Karma wants to hook up with the jungler to make big plays, so even if she was in a strong state, she was really hard to make work in solo queue. And even if you could jump that hurdle, the amount
On March 31 2013 00:45 wei2coolman wrote: I think she has some promise, but she loses a lot of her quirkiness with the remake.
This encompasses a lot of what I don't like about Riot's process. They seem to have a very specific vision of where they want the game to go and are afraid to let it evolve organically. If she was really that underpowered, she wasn't hurting anything, unlike, say, an Evelyn.
On March 31 2013 00:44 obesechicken13 wrote: My little brother really liked Karma before the rework. Now he says she's weaker. I looked at her numbers. She doesn't look that weak, but it would be sad if Riot actually made Karma weaker after the remake. Win rates don't mean much considering the psychological effect.
I actually thought this at first, too. I think it's that if you try to play her even remotely like old Karma, you get butchered in lane. Literally all of her old playstyle-defining characteristics are gone, though some of the abilities bear token resemblance.
On March 31 2013 00:35 phyvo wrote:Karma rework basically turned her into an utterly and completely different champion as they centered her playstyle around a completely new ability (q) instead of anything resembling her old shield+damage centric playstyle. So when people say that new Karma is "generic" I think they're mostly reacting to the complete loss of her playstyle since as it stands I think using Karma Q and Mantra-ing Q/E has a pretty distinct flavor from other AP mids. It's just nowhere near as unique as old Karma's style, which was a lot like AP Sion in lane (who is in a similar position) but with a lot more interesting play possible.
I don't think I can agree with that. I played a lot of Karma and I play a lot of utility mids. New Karma really just feels like diet Lux to me. W is definitely the most unique aspect of her new kit (despite it existing on two other champs), and her other spells seem sort of aligned to support that, but it's pretty hard to max first and still have a reasonably good lane, and if you ever commit to proc'ing it and you are wrong--about anything: jungle position, burst, summoner cooldowns--you're dead.
Sion is actually a pretty good comparison that I hadn't considered because he's so far off the map. The major difference I think is that Sion wants to shove and gank sidelanes such that when he's in a strong state, he's really good at solo queue whereas Karma wants to hook up with the jungler to make big plays, so even if she was in a strong state, she was really hard to make work in solo queue. And even if you could jump that hurdle, the amount
What other skill is an AoE shield that provides a speed boost for your team? Also you can max Q and still have Mantra E be incredibly useful. You aren't just pigeonholed into using Mantra and the skill you're maxing.
On March 31 2013 00:45 wei2coolman wrote: I think she has some promise, but she loses a lot of her quirkiness with the remake.
This encompasses a lot of what I don't like about Riot's process. They seem to have a very specific vision of where they want the game to go and are afraid to let it evolve organically. If she was really that underpowered, she wasn't hurting anything, unlike, say, an Evelyn.
On March 31 2013 00:44 obesechicken13 wrote: My little brother really liked Karma before the rework. Now he says she's weaker. I looked at her numbers. She doesn't look that weak, but it would be sad if Riot actually made Karma weaker after the remake. Win rates don't mean much considering the psychological effect.
I actually thought this at first, too. I think it's that if you try to play her even remotely like old Karma, you get butchered in lane. Literally all of her old playstyle-defining characteristics are gone, though some of the abilities bear token resemblance.
On March 31 2013 00:35 phyvo wrote:Karma rework basically turned her into an utterly and completely different champion as they centered her playstyle around a completely new ability (q) instead of anything resembling her old shield+damage centric playstyle. So when people say that new Karma is "generic" I think they're mostly reacting to the complete loss of her playstyle since as it stands I think using Karma Q and Mantra-ing Q/E has a pretty distinct flavor from other AP mids. It's just nowhere near as unique as old Karma's style, which was a lot like AP Sion in lane (who is in a similar position) but with a lot more interesting play possible.
I don't think I can agree with that. I played a lot of Karma and I play a lot of utility mids. New Karma really just feels like diet Lux to me. W is definitely the most unique aspect of her new kit (despite it existing on two other champs), and her other spells seem sort of aligned to support that, but it's pretty hard to max first and still have a reasonably good lane, and if you ever commit to proc'ing it and you are wrong--about anything: jungle position, burst, summoner cooldowns--you're dead.
Sion is actually a pretty good comparison that I hadn't considered because he's so far off the map. The major difference I think is that Sion wants to shove and gank sidelanes such that when he's in a strong state, he's really good at solo queue whereas Karma wants to hook up with the jungler to make big plays, so even if she was in a strong state, she was really hard to make work in solo queue. And even if you could jump that hurdle, the amount
What other skill is an AoE shield that provides a speed boost for your team? Also you can max Q and still have Mantra E be incredibly useful. You aren't just pigeonholed into using Mantra and the skill you're maxing.
You're missing the point. The skills may be slightly unique in execution, but the way you play them is almost identical to other champions with nearly identical skillsets that already exist. Singed and Volibear have nearly identical flips, but they play vastly differently because of how the rest of their kits fit together. You could replace any of Karma's abilities (or even all three) with the corresponding ability from Lux and she would be essentially unchanged, provided you added a stronger mantra version.
I also didn't mean to imply that you can only utilize the skill you're maxing, but that the skill maxed changes how a lane plays out. Maxing W would give her a unique laning style, but it doesn't seem viable. Maxing Q makes her play like an Orianna or Lux.
Edit: I'd also like to add, since I don't think I made it clear yet, that I don't think she is in any way underpowered. She will see play in her current state. I just don't see what this design adds to the game that we don't already have. If the answer is essentially stapling Lux's ult damage onto her shield and making it point-and-click instead of a skillshot, but taking away the range option, I don't think we've really gained anything.
On March 31 2013 00:45 wei2coolman wrote: I think she has some promise, but she loses a lot of her quirkiness with the remake.
This encompasses a lot of what I don't like about Riot's process. They seem to have a very specific vision of where they want the game to go and are afraid to let it evolve organically. If she was really that underpowered, she wasn't hurting anything, unlike, say, an Evelyn.
On March 31 2013 00:44 obesechicken13 wrote: My little brother really liked Karma before the rework. Now he says she's weaker. I looked at her numbers. She doesn't look that weak, but it would be sad if Riot actually made Karma weaker after the remake. Win rates don't mean much considering the psychological effect.
I actually thought this at first, too. I think it's that if you try to play her even remotely like old Karma, you get butchered in lane. Literally all of her old playstyle-defining characteristics are gone, though some of the abilities bear token resemblance.
On March 31 2013 00:35 phyvo wrote:Karma rework basically turned her into an utterly and completely different champion as they centered her playstyle around a completely new ability (q) instead of anything resembling her old shield+damage centric playstyle. So when people say that new Karma is "generic" I think they're mostly reacting to the complete loss of her playstyle since as it stands I think using Karma Q and Mantra-ing Q/E has a pretty distinct flavor from other AP mids. It's just nowhere near as unique as old Karma's style, which was a lot like AP Sion in lane (who is in a similar position) but with a lot more interesting play possible.
I don't think I can agree with that. I played a lot of Karma and I play a lot of utility mids. New Karma really just feels like diet Lux to me. W is definitely the most unique aspect of her new kit (despite it existing on two other champs), and her other spells seem sort of aligned to support that, but it's pretty hard to max first and still have a reasonably good lane, and if you ever commit to proc'ing it and you are wrong--about anything: jungle position, burst, summoner cooldowns--you're dead.
Sion is actually a pretty good comparison that I hadn't considered because he's so far off the map. The major difference I think is that Sion wants to shove and gank sidelanes such that when he's in a strong state, he's really good at solo queue whereas Karma wants to hook up with the jungler to make big plays, so even if she was in a strong state, she was really hard to make work in solo queue. And even if you could jump that hurdle, the amount
What other skill is an AoE shield that provides a speed boost for your team? Also you can max Q and still have Mantra E be incredibly useful. You aren't just pigeonholed into using Mantra and the skill you're maxing.
You're missing the point. The skills may be slightly unique in execution, but the way you play them is almost identical to other champions with nearly identical skillsets that already exist. Singed and Volibear have nearly identical flips, but they play vastly differently because of how the rest of their kits fit together. You could replace any of Karma's abilities (or even all three) with the corresponding ability from Lux and she would be essentially unchanged, provided you added a stronger mantra version.
I also didn't mean to imply that you can only utilize the skill you're maxing, but that the skill maxed changes how a lane plays out. Maxing W would give her a unique laning style, but it doesn't seem viable. Maxing Q makes her play like an Orianna or Lux.
Fair enough, I see your point. I still disagree that new Karma is bland, I've played her a bit and really enjoy her. I only played a little bit of old Karma though so I'm no authority on how she used to play. I think she's less unique then old Karma but she's not completely lack of unique play style.
Old Karma was just bad though. Like she was probably the worst champion the game has ever seen. At least Eve was good and then had to be nerfed until being bad. Karma was never strong whether it was in solo queue or arranged play (as we actually did see her a bit in competitive settings and it was nearly always bad, in fact I'm pretty certain Karma has never won a competitive league match).
On March 30 2013 23:39 Potatisodlaren wrote: Does anyone who liked Karma pre-rework actually like her now? I hate her and so does everyone I've seen who liked old Karma. I don't get it they pretty much changed everything, why not just make a new champion with the new skillset? Ryze rework still kept all his spells intact, same with Xin.
Her midgame was actually really similar to Zilean's, and we all know how he fares in solo queue.
Zilean isn't that bad in solo queue. He comes in with an average a bit under 50%, in the last month his lowest winrate day was 44%. Karma on the other hand peaked with a 45% winrate but was averaging high 30% and low 40% winrate in solo queue. This is, of course, with her old kit not her new one. Zilean's average winrate is 49%, Karma's is 37%.
Zilean is a strong champion. Karma was not. I'm sure people who loved Karma are foaming at the mouth but she was out for over two years and still has a sub-40% winrate in solo queue. It's safe to say she was a shitty champion at this point.
I think Riot is perfectly justified just trashing her entire old kit and starting from scratch.
Hey guys, can someone explain "mechanics" in this game? Because I hear "mechanically skilled" very often but I don't understand what constitutes as mechanical skill in this game outside of cs (and even that's a lot of knowing your skills) so it's weird to me =\.
I really liked the old Karma and am really sad about the remake. She doesn't feel like the same hero anymore. The whole "burden of knowledge" thing is a really lame reason to completely change a unique hero into a generic caster. You also were never that pigeonholed into using mantra only for the skill you were maxing. Sometimes it helped to max Q in lane but old mantra E could still clear the wave and do good damage with its high (0.8) ratio. Without going into whether she is stronger or weaker, it just feels like she is a completely different hero with a few references to the old one. If they wanted that they could have just released a new hero with different lore, like Karma's sister or something, and kept the old Karma the way she was.
On March 31 2013 01:30 overt wrote: I'm pretty certain Karma has never won a competitive league match.
SGS ran Karma in a shield comp with Lulu, Jarvan, sometimes Lee Sin and had a lot of success with it
On March 31 2013 01:37 KissBlade wrote: Hey guys, can someone explain "mechanics" in this game? Because I hear "mechanically skilled" very often but I don't understand what constitutes as mechanical skill in this game outside of cs (and even that's a lot of knowing your skills) so it's weird to me =\.
On March 31 2013 01:47 Inflicted_ wrote: Just played the new Karma (mid), pretty garbage of a champion. Only useful thing I felt I could do was buffing people with the %ms.
I feel that the old one is WAY better than the remake
I donno. The new Karma is awfully difficult to play. I think she has SOME potential.... and it's at least greater than the old Karma.
On March 31 2013 01:55 Sufficiency wrote: Guys, how does the LCS work in mid season exactly? 7th and 8th team are out of LCS, right? Do Team 3-6th have any chance of getting out of LCS too?
Top 6 play in Spring Playoffs. When Summer Season starts it kicks off with the bottom four LCS teams from Spring Season, four teams from qualifier tournaments, and four teams from ranked 5s. Those twelve teams play in a tournament with the top four qualifying for Summer Season.
So if CLG doesn't surpass Vulcun by the end of Spring Season for example they'll play for whether or not they qualify for Summer Season.
Although I'm not 100% clear if the bottom four is determined by Season ranking or by the end of the playoff ranking. Like if the playoffs were Complexity, Marn, Dignitas, and Curse in the semi-finals then I would assume that CLG, TSM, Vulcun, and GGU would have to play in the qualifiers for Summer Season as they didn't make top four in Spring Season playoffs.
Tidecaller is a really fun support with a ton of potential for some clutch plays. Drop a splash from way behind the line when your low onto your adc for the ms boost and the heal which hits the enemy for a little dammage and then hits your jungler for another heal and ms boost.
So satisfying to go your ult, pop shurelias and then drop a bubble on the enemy tank line for some huge teamfight influence.
On March 31 2013 01:55 Sufficiency wrote: Guys, how does the LCS work in mid season exactly? 7th and 8th team are out of LCS, right? Do Team 3-6th have any chance of getting out of LCS too?
Top 6 play in Spring Playoffs. When Summer Season starts it kicks off with the bottom four LCS teams from Spring Season, four teams from qualifier tournaments, and four teams from ranked 5s. Those twelve teams play in a tournament with the top four qualifying for Summer Season.
So if CLG doesn't surpass Vulcun by the end of Spring Season for example they'll play for whether or not they qualify for Summer Season.
Although I'm not 100% clear if the bottom four is determined by Season ranking or by the end of the playoff ranking. Like if the playoffs were Complexity, Marn, Dignitas, and Curse in the semi-finals then I would assume that CLG, TSM, Vulcun, and GGU would have to play in the qualifiers for Summer Season as they didn't make top four in Spring Season playoffs.
Relegation 12 team qualifier 4 teams from Spring Season 4 teams from Partner Tournaments 4 teams from Ranked 5s Qualifiers Top 4 teams advance Regular Season 10 weeks League play Each team plays all of the other teams four times Each matches are best of one Playoffs Top 6 teams from Round Robin 1st and 2nd place teams receive bye to semifinals 3rd through 6th place teams qualify to quarterfinals
A clear number sheet for what this guy said. the way they're going to handle relegation is top 2 are locked in for next season bottom 2 are automatically down into relegation and the middle 4 are going to duke it out to see which 2 get to stay and which 2 have to re qualify.
Hmm, the more I think about it; how much does sunfire cape in terms of helping to push? The more I watch it in pro-games, it doesn't seem like it helps all that much in splitpushing. The only time it improves splitpushing is when there's a HUGE, HUGE wave, and it makes pushing that wave like 3-4 seconds faster; but it seems pretty insignificant in smaller waves.
Stephen Ellis @snoopeh Looking for a Jungler. Diamond 1 Minimum, speaks English and can live in Germany - more details to follow over the next few days.
WOW GUYS THIS IS TERRIBLE KARMA WAS MY FAVORITE CHANPIOM I HAD 4 GAMES WITH HER IN SEASON 2 SHE WAS VIABLE BORDERING ON OVERPOWERED AND NOW ROIT HAS REMADE HER INTO A WALKING PILE OF POOPOO AND THE NEW KARMA IS NOTHING LIKE THE OLD ONE DESPITE SHARING A NUKE, A TETHER, A SHIELD AND MANTRA WHAT THE FUUUUUCK THIS GAME IS TAKING A TURN FOR THE WORSE
On March 31 2013 02:23 Antyee wrote: Stephen Ellis @snoopeh Looking for a Jungler. Diamond 1 Minimum, speaks English and can live in Germany - more details to follow over the next few days.
I wonder..
Nothing to wonder. Germany is full of dark haunted castles riddled with mad scientists. Can only be one conclusion.
On March 31 2013 02:37 gtrsrs wrote: WOW GUYS THIS IS TERRIBLE KARMA WAS MY FAVORITE CHANPIOM I HAD 4 GAMES WITH HER IN SEASON 2 SHE WAS VIABLE BORDERING ON OVERPOWERED AND NOW ROIT HAS REMADE HER INTO A WALKING PILE OF POOPOO AND THE NEW KARMA IS NOTHING LIKE THE OLD ONE DESPITE SHARING A NUKE, A TETHER, A SHIELD AND MANTRA WHAT THE FUUUUUCK THIS GAME IS TAKING A TURN FOR THE WORSE
^all of you guys, right now It's embarrassing
I would never have the balls to put it as bluntly as you but I kinda feel the same way. Not saying that some complaining isn't warranted, but I didn't realize TL has so many dedicated Karma players until recently.
On March 31 2013 02:37 gtrsrs wrote: WOW GUYS THIS IS TERRIBLE KARMA WAS MY FAVORITE CHANPIOM I HAD 4 GAMES WITH HER IN SEASON 2 SHE WAS VIABLE BORDERING ON OVERPOWERED AND NOW ROIT HAS REMADE HER INTO A WALKING PILE OF POOPOO AND THE NEW KARMA IS NOTHING LIKE THE OLD ONE DESPITE SHARING A NUKE, A TETHER, A SHIELD AND MANTRA WHAT THE FUUUUUCK THIS GAME IS TAKING A TURN FOR THE WORSE
^all of you guys, right now It's embarrassing
I would never have the balls to put it as bluntly as you but I kinda feel the same way. Not saying that some complaining isn't warranted, but I didn't realize TL has so many dedicated Karma players until recently.
Ever since Karma came out the only person on TL that I ever saw advocating Karma play was Smash. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually happy about the re-work.
In fairness, the fact that Tether is no longer ally-cast and has no pass-through effect makes it a totally different skill.
But that's not that relevant seeing as the old Tether was probably Karma's worst skill.
The only thing I'd really be bummed out about is that they turned Mantra into a skill that has to be leveled at 6/11/16 rather than rather being auto-leveled and having the other skills go to 6 ranks, like before. I don't see how the way it is now is better and it made her somewhat unique.
On March 31 2013 02:37 gtrsrs wrote: WOW GUYS THIS IS TERRIBLE KARMA WAS MY FAVORITE CHANPIOM I HAD 4 GAMES WITH HER IN SEASON 2 SHE WAS VIABLE BORDERING ON OVERPOWERED AND NOW ROIT HAS REMADE HER INTO A WALKING PILE OF POOPOO AND THE NEW KARMA IS NOTHING LIKE THE OLD ONE DESPITE SHARING A NUKE, A TETHER, A SHIELD AND MANTRA WHAT THE FUUUUUCK THIS GAME IS TAKING A TURN FOR THE WORSE
^all of you guys, right now It's embarrassing
I would never have the balls to put it as bluntly as you but I kinda feel the same way. Not saying that some complaining isn't warranted, but I didn't realize TL has so many dedicated Karma players until recently.
Ever since Karma came out the only person on TL that I ever saw advocating Karma play was Smash. And I wouldn't be surprised if he's actually happy about the re-work.
I'm hurt that I'm not included in the list with Smash - me and him had quite a long talk about Karma at a LAN last summer. I looooved Karma, she just didn't work.
She relied too much on teammates knowing what you do and trusting you in Solo Q. And in any arranged play there were just better options.
On March 31 2013 02:37 gtrsrs wrote: WOW GUYS THIS IS TERRIBLE KARMA WAS MY FAVORITE CHANPIOM I HAD 4 GAMES WITH HER IN SEASON 2 SHE WAS VIABLE BORDERING ON OVERPOWERED AND NOW ROIT HAS REMADE HER INTO A WALKING PILE OF POOPOO AND THE NEW KARMA IS NOTHING LIKE THE OLD ONE DESPITE SHARING A NUKE, A TETHER, A SHIELD AND MANTRA WHAT THE FUUUUUCK THIS GAME IS TAKING A TURN FOR THE WORSE
^all of you guys, right now It's embarrassing
It's funny because it's true.
I did think the new tether seemed real similar to LB's skill though. Pity they took away the ally cast.
On March 31 2013 02:53 TheYango wrote: In fairness, the fact that Tether is no longer ally-cast and has no pass-through effect makes it a totally different skill.
But that's not that relevant seeing as the old Tether was probably Karma's worst skill.
The only thing I'd really be bummed out about is that they turned Mantra into a skill that has to be leveled at 6/11/16 rather than rather being auto-leveled and having the other skills go to 6 ranks, like before. I don't see how the way it is now is better and it made her somewhat unique.
They toned down the "new effect" part so instead they could add numbers to it, and they can play around the numbers via level scaling, tying the effectiveness to Mantra's level rather than the mantra'd skill's level. W wouldn't heal for much if it was on ancient Karma, but now it's a one-point wonder in that respect and you level it for what it brings (root+damage) rather than what the Mantra brings you (it's more damage-mitigation than heal with such a tether skill though). I'm not particularly a fan of the rework (Q changes primarily, making her more of a poke champ than anything sustain, bruisery and persistant she lead to before; her teamwide impact is also all contained in her E now), but I have to admit that the implementation "you want to use the Mantra for the additional effect, rather than max a skill based on which Mantra'd version is more useful" seems well done.
On March 31 2013 03:02 Chrispy wrote: Anybody's client crash when they search/view for another persons profile? Been going on for about 2 weeks now T_T
le loco posted.
LoL Recorder was making this happen to me. Also crashed my client after every game. I don't know if it's fixed, I haven't turn it on or updated it since I closed it.
On March 31 2013 02:53 TheYango wrote: The only thing I'd really be bummed out about is that they turned Mantra into a skill that has to be leveled at 6/11/16 rather than rather being auto-leveled and having the other skills go to 6 ranks, like before. I don't see how the way it is now is better and it made her somewhat unique.
Probably because Max rank for champions to hit a skill would be normally 9 instead of 11 so they wanted to make it consistent for easier balancing.
Cris' living situation isn't the greatest right now, and with that comes shitty Internet which means less streaming. It's one of my priorities at the moment and hopefully within the month he'll be streaming again.
On March 31 2013 02:08 wei2coolman wrote: Hmm, the more I think about it; how much does sunfire cape in terms of helping to push? The more I watch it in pro-games, it doesn't seem like it helps all that much in splitpushing. The only time it improves splitpushing is when there's a HUGE, HUGE wave, and it makes pushing that wave like 3-4 seconds faster; but it seems pretty insignificant in smaller waves.
On March 31 2013 02:08 wei2coolman wrote: Hmm, the more I think about it; how much does sunfire cape in terms of helping to push? The more I watch it in pro-games, it doesn't seem like it helps all that much in splitpushing. The only time it improves splitpushing is when there's a HUGE, HUGE wave, and it makes pushing that wave like 3-4 seconds faster; but it seems pretty insignificant in smaller waves.
On March 31 2013 02:37 gtrsrs wrote: WOW GUYS THIS IS TERRIBLE KARMA WAS MY FAVORITE CHANPIOM I HAD 4 GAMES WITH HER IN SEASON 2 SHE WAS VIABLE BORDERING ON OVERPOWERED AND NOW ROIT HAS REMADE HER INTO A WALKING PILE OF POOPOO AND THE NEW KARMA IS NOTHING LIKE THE OLD ONE DESPITE SHARING A NUKE, A TETHER, A SHIELD AND MANTRA WHAT THE FUUUUUCK THIS GAME IS TAKING A TURN FOR THE WORSE
On March 31 2013 02:08 wei2coolman wrote: Hmm, the more I think about it; how much does sunfire cape in terms of helping to push? The more I watch it in pro-games, it doesn't seem like it helps all that much in splitpushing. The only time it improves splitpushing is when there's a HUGE, HUGE wave, and it makes pushing that wave like 3-4 seconds faster; but it seems pretty insignificant in smaller waves.
TOO's little bro is actually mechanically proficient; his stream pretty entertaining too.
On the topic of Hydra; I'm really surprised it's not picked up more often in pro-tier games. It seems like one of the best solo damage item you could pick up for a lot of split pusher in late game.
How's Karma solo mid now? I really want to try it but on the other hand don't want to get flamed to hell and so on.
Her E at least seems to be really nice.
I hope Mantra still stacks at least to two, being able to only use one Mantra ability in a teamfight would be quite meh considering she has no ult. Maybe I'll give it a try the next time I'm mid.
About Ravenous Hydra: It's really good for outsustaining your opponent. The passive is some awesome burst on a low cooldown as well. I guess it sort of overlaps with BotRK, though. Still, I could see it being used on AD casters who don't auto that much.
I only really like it on WuKong, auto > Q > active gets a lot of milage from it. and he sucks at pushing despite having tools to split push (w). WW is super good with it too imo.
On March 31 2013 00:52 Slusher wrote: Obviously the real problem is they were busy with the art design for Zac.
Honestly the most disappointing champion, art wise, that has even been introduced. When I saw the first preview thing, like the thing with the lab report and whatnot I pictured Slimer from ghostbusters, or like Jabba the hut, but when he the "reveal" comes out we see that it's just a human that is green. But in the shots we see a picture from what we now know is his ult where he is turned into a ball, and I thought mabye human is just his idle shape. Nope, imagine, on his Q if his hands turned into hammers and he smashed them together. Imagine on his E if he morphed into an actual slingshot, imagine the third jump of his ult he turns into an anvil, and even add a CLANG! sound effect. Instead we just have a green human with a recolor for a skin, what a dissapointment.
As a huge Dragonball Z fan, I'm more than happy to have Super Buu in a game I play.
On March 31 2013 00:52 Slusher wrote: Obviously the real problem is they were busy with the art design for Zac.
Honestly the most disappointing champion, art wise, that has even been introduced. When I saw the first preview thing, like the thing with the lab report and whatnot I pictured Slimer from ghostbusters, or like Jabba the hut, but when he the "reveal" comes out we see that it's just a human that is green. But in the shots we see a picture from what we now know is his ult where he is turned into a ball, and I thought mabye human is just his idle shape. Nope, imagine, on his Q if his hands turned into hammers and he smashed them together. Imagine on his E if he morphed into an actual slingshot, imagine the third jump of his ult he turns into an anvil, and even add a CLANG! sound effect. Instead we just have a green human with a recolor for a skin, what a dissapointment.
As a huge Dragonball Z fan, I'm more than happy to have Super Buu in a game I play.
It's funny I came in trying out Zac thinking he'd be just that another human but green. Yet when I played him and watched others play him I don't get that impression he moves odd he's elastic and goopy. I dunno I like how he moves and looks. He's humanoid but not really ya know?
On March 31 2013 02:23 Antyee wrote: Stephen Ellis @snoopeh Looking for a Jungler. Diamond 1 Minimum, speaks English and can live in Germany - more details to follow over the next few days.
I wonder..
Now he wrote on his stream:
Regarding the tweet - basically something came to fruition that I had been working on the past 5 months or so - looking at the options now of whether it is worth chasing or not and suitable replacement can be found.
As an EG fan and a moderate Snoopeh hater (well I know his limitations) the possibility that he might leave EG (possibly only as a player) makes me very excited. :D He would be much better suited as a manager or similar.
The most obvious and possibly best replacement would be Malunoo, if he is still available and up for it. Another possibility is Frogurt, who already subbed for Snoopeh in scrims and apparently did really well. I could also imagine Hulberto who is one of the best junglers in soloq.
On March 31 2013 00:52 Slusher wrote: Obviously the real problem is they were busy with the art design for Zac.
Honestly the most disappointing champion, art wise, that has even been introduced. When I saw the first preview thing, like the thing with the lab report and whatnot I pictured Slimer from ghostbusters, or like Jabba the hut, but when he the "reveal" comes out we see that it's just a human that is green. But in the shots we see a picture from what we now know is his ult where he is turned into a ball, and I thought mabye human is just his idle shape. Nope, imagine, on his Q if his hands turned into hammers and he smashed them together. Imagine on his E if he morphed into an actual slingshot, imagine the third jump of his ult he turns into an anvil, and even add a CLANG! sound effect. Instead we just have a green human with a recolor for a skin, what a dissapointment.
As a huge Dragonball Z fan, I'm more than happy to have Super Buu in a game I play.
Weird, Buu is the worst villain in DBZ by far. Such a disappointment after Cell.
Also I'm having a tough time dealing with the enemy jungler timing my blue when I'm a mana hungry mid. The only thing I can do is pray that my jungler gets it? I really feel like playing only manaless mids for this reason.
Oh Frogurt? I've played quite a few normals with him and Kerp way back, he always was worse than Kerp though.
On March 31 2013 04:48 Sven Stryker wrote: He'd need 650 AP to do that. Any caster with 650 AP hurts.
That is true. But it was still hilarious to see him jump into their team, start ult and spam his W while bouncing around destroying everyone. Suppose our Amumu jungle's flash/ult didn't hurt either.
On March 31 2013 00:52 Slusher wrote: Obviously the real problem is they were busy with the art design for Zac.
Honestly the most disappointing champion, art wise, that has even been introduced. When I saw the first preview thing, like the thing with the lab report and whatnot I pictured Slimer from ghostbusters, or like Jabba the hut, but when he the "reveal" comes out we see that it's just a human that is green. But in the shots we see a picture from what we now know is his ult where he is turned into a ball, and I thought mabye human is just his idle shape. Nope, imagine, on his Q if his hands turned into hammers and he smashed them together. Imagine on his E if he morphed into an actual slingshot, imagine the third jump of his ult he turns into an anvil, and even add a CLANG! sound effect. Instead we just have a green human with a recolor for a skin, what a dissapointment.
As a huge Dragonball Z fan, I'm more than happy to have Super Buu in a game I play.
Weird, Buu is the worst villain in DBZ by far. Such a disappointment after Cell.
Also I'm having a tough time dealing with the enemy jungler timing my blue when I'm a mana hungry mid. The only thing I can do is pray that my jungler gets it? I really feel like playing only manaless mids for this reason.
drop a ward, play lux
apart from that all you can do is coordinate with your jungler. time when it spawns, shove the wave when it does and if the enemy jungle tries to steal or something you can just 2v1 him.
On March 31 2013 02:23 Antyee wrote: Stephen Ellis @snoopeh Looking for a Jungler. Diamond 1 Minimum, speaks English and can live in Germany - more details to follow over the next few days.
Regarding the tweet - basically something came to fruition that I had been working on the past 5 months or so - looking at the options now of whether it is worth chasing or not and suitable replacement can be found.
As an EG fan and a moderate Snoopeh hater (well I know his limitations) the possibility that he might leave EG (possibly only as a player) makes me very excited. :D He would be much better suited as a manager or similar.
The most obvious and possibly best replacement would be Malunoo, if he is still available and up for it. Another possibility is Frogurt, who already subbed for Snoopeh in scrims and apparently did really well. I could also imagine Hulberto who is one of the best junglers in soloq.
Can't say I'm sad, he might be a charismatic player and good for esports, the stare thing has been funny for a while but it was obvious EG needs a better jungler.
On March 31 2013 04:37 ticklishmusic wrote: I've seen some Udyr builds with Hydra/BT, dunno if it works given some of the changes though.
Udyr I feel like just depends on if you can get bursted in lane or not. I played one game(vs shen), and once I got hydra I could duel him even though he had sunfire, and then turn on turtle, and leech back absurd amounts of life through autos and hydra proc.
That along with FH gives a holy trinity of CDR, lifesteal, and tankiness.
I've taken to picking up a giants belt somewhere along the way for most of my tops.
On March 31 2013 00:52 Slusher wrote: Obviously the real problem is they were busy with the art design for Zac.
Honestly the most disappointing champion, art wise, that has even been introduced. When I saw the first preview thing, like the thing with the lab report and whatnot I pictured Slimer from ghostbusters, or like Jabba the hut, but when he the "reveal" comes out we see that it's just a human that is green. But in the shots we see a picture from what we now know is his ult where he is turned into a ball, and I thought mabye human is just his idle shape. Nope, imagine, on his Q if his hands turned into hammers and he smashed them together. Imagine on his E if he morphed into an actual slingshot, imagine the third jump of his ult he turns into an anvil, and even add a CLANG! sound effect. Instead we just have a green human with a recolor for a skin, what a dissapointment.
As a huge Dragonball Z fan, I'm more than happy to have Super Buu in a game I play.
Weird, Buu is the worst villain in DBZ by far. Such a disappointment after Cell.
Also I'm having a tough time dealing with the enemy jungler timing my blue when I'm a mana hungry mid. The only thing I can do is pray that my jungler gets it? I really feel like playing only manaless mids for this reason.
Oh Frogurt? I've played quite a few normals with him and Kerp way back, he always was worse than Kerp though.
By big fan, I mean I'll defend it when someone says it was bad. But honestly, I tried rewatching it, and it was just too boring. Sagas pass the length I enjoy, and start overstaying their welcome. Fight scenes are cool though! Also, all the villains in DBZ were terrible, and generic. For the time they might have been innovative I suppose. I've never watched DBZ for the characters. It's all about the nostalgia for me. I also think the Buu saga is the best one despite what Dragonball hipsters like to say. Me, and Jwong know whats up.
And to the guy who said he moves all elastically I agree with that. I think Zac is a cool character. I don't have any complaints so far.
On Zac I was a little disappointed when he grew up from the first lore update into something more humanoid because I'm a sucker for cuteness, but honestly I still like him. His voice actor really sells him as the good-hearted superhero type of guy.
Hmm. Playing as Vlad the Rylai / Llandry combo is so necessary for him that getting Revolver feels like it delays it just too long, as I'm already going cdr boots/Visage. I think I'll be completely skipping spellvamp for Vlad from now on, although it still is quite sexy when trying to push towers..... Wish I could have 7 items on him.
Trying Karma in a bot game, hopefully she won't disappoint.
That's a pretty amazing find. I knew that you can smite mid dashes (I drive by smite with Nocturne all the time) but I NEVER considered using that. Going to add a new toy to my jungling arsenal =D
On March 31 2013 06:37 Chrispy wrote: Nah I think he's just getting just in range of the baron by jumping through the trees.
It's cause ZAC's jump opened this possibilities for other jumps champions. So I guess people finally tested it out. Yay for new discoveries. ZAC's jump is visually easier to see him jumping over the trees, whereas these other champs don't look visually that they are jumping across the trees. Seems more in parallel, but it's enough. It would probably work for shyvana too.
On March 31 2013 04:42 Jek wrote: So. I just played a blind pick normals with Zac mid. 2.4 second cooldown on an AoE 21% max health damage spell is quite interesting.
That's actually really bad considering what other heroes can do =X
Zac feels really strong tbh - any of you guys figured out how to counterplay him yet? Just seems really disruptive and his damage output isn't bad either. Was thinking of early counterjunglers like Ree Singa.
On March 31 2013 08:02 Mondeezy wrote: Zac feels really strong tbh - any of you guys figured out how to counterplay him yet? Just seems really disruptive and his damage output isn't bad either. Was thinking of early counterjunglers like Ree Singa.
His passive also is really good. Saw him getting barely killed in 1v1 by a Khazix and he couldn't kill all the blobs in time.
On March 31 2013 08:02 Mondeezy wrote: Zac feels really strong tbh - any of you guys figured out how to counterplay him yet? Just seems really disruptive and his damage output isn't bad either. Was thinking of early counterjunglers like Ree Singa.
His passive also is really good. Saw him getting barely killed in 1v1 by a Khazix and he couldn't kill all the blobs in time.
I like his passive function though - it's like trying to kill a damn raid boss in the middle of the team fight and trying to get your team to focus down the little blobs seperately, solo queue terror.
Love the new tower damage, 3 man tower dives were ridiculously easy and OP, especially with some dash champions.
New champion Zac is awesome. People are hating on him because of how silly the concept is, but its been a while since they've gone the joke route. Props to riot; I was getting tired of the seriousness.
On March 31 2013 10:30 Razith wrote: Love the new tower damage, 3 man tower dives were ridiculously easy and OP, especially with some dash champions.
New champion Zac is awesome. People are hating on him because of how silly the concept is, but its been a while since they've gone the joke route. Props to riot; I was getting tired of the seriousness.
Other than downtown, good patch.
I like they nerf towers to prevent diving, yet Zac is one of the best dive junglers in awhile lol.
On March 31 2013 10:30 Razith wrote: Love the new tower damage, 3 man tower dives were ridiculously easy and OP, especially with some dash champions.
New champion Zac is awesome. People are hating on him because of how silly the concept is, but its been a while since they've gone the joke route. Props to riot; I was getting tired of the seriousness.
Other than downtown, good patch.
people hate his concept because it's a complete joke art wise, there so much you can do with "amorphous" and we got mr.fantastic
On March 31 2013 02:53 TheYango wrote: In fairness, the fact that Tether is no longer ally-cast and has no pass-through effect makes it a totally different skill.
But that's not that relevant seeing as the old Tether was probably Karma's worst skill.
The only thing I'd really be bummed out about is that they turned Mantra into a skill that has to be leveled at 6/11/16 rather than rather being auto-leveled and having the other skills go to 6 ranks, like before. I don't see how the way it is now is better and it made her somewhat unique.
I think the it was so the mantra bonuses could have base damages that were tied to leveling the ult, which makes mantraing the skills you aren't maxing a better option.
On March 31 2013 17:06 WaveofShadow wrote: So, colour me sexist but I'm pretty sure half of the streams on Solomid are now random girls streaming in tank tops. What the fuck is this.
I'm amazed more pornstars don't get into the whole streaming for nerds thing.
so they nerfed Lee's E to the ground because it made his ganks too strong and release champion with knock ups and slows with retarded jump range, fuck riot
Without detailing their cycle (it's pretty much QQ, but it's nonetheless true), I'd say it has to do with their design team and balance team being on radically different pages. Many times their balance team has come out and said "yeah this is a really toxic / really op / broken element that we won't use again," but dev does it anyway and it comes out exactly as broken as it was before.
On March 31 2013 17:25 Craton wrote: Without detailing their cycle (it's pretty much QQ, but it's nonetheless true), I'd say it has to do with their design team and balance team being on radically different pages. Many times their balance team has come out and said "yeah this is a really toxic / really op / broken element that we won't use again," but dev does it anyway and it comes out exactly as broken as it was before.
Things that I heavily dislike and hope the design team tries their best to get out.
Massive mobility - this is a big one. It's one thing to release champions with a dash/gap closer. It's another to release stuff with dash+gapcloser+hard CC. Also the mobility skill should be on the more costly side with regards to resources if it is ground targeted. Being able to get out should have a cost(and it does for a lot of the champs with blinks/dashes)(looking at khazix here,50 mana rusrs?).
Retardproof laning phase(aka press buttons to win). Making a kit so strong, with so much utility that it needs to get nerfed into the ground before it's balanced(elise, zyra, diana, eve RM),
CD based champs. When you have offensive skills with zero drawback to using them, it makes for knife edge balancing. Either the champ can use the skills on CD, and gets away with it, and basically auto wins lane, or else the other guy shrugs it off/hits you back twice as hard, and you lose. Really hard to strike a balance.
% damage with multiple scaling(elise). Where did they get that this was going to be a good idea. Makes for extremely suffocating gameplay for a melee top because they try to be lower HP to take less damage, but if they are lower, they don't have the ability to all-in without dying.
On March 31 2013 18:14 wei2coolman wrote: Add virtually no manacost champs to "cd based champ"; it's pretty ridic how low the mana costs for champs are now...
As much as people complain about "mobility creep" I honestly think "mana cost creep" has been much more severe.
On March 31 2013 18:14 wei2coolman wrote: Add virtually no manacost champs to "cd based champ"; it's pretty ridic how low the mana costs for champs are now...
As much as people complain about "mobility creep" I honestly think "mana cost creep" has been much more severe.
mobility creep is fine, in the sense that there are counter play options to it, you can create a peel comp, or hard disengage comp (like gragas+janna+xin, etc champs)
But, holy fuck, mana costs are absurdly ridiculously low, there's no counterplay involved.
jayce and khazix need tear vi using e in the jungle runs out of mana nami is a candidate for chalice depending on play style elise's neurotoxin can't be spammed anymore syndra needs chalice and can still run out of mana diana runs out of mana, can't spam crescent strike and shield in lane
it's not on dota level but it is there. if mana costs were negligible, i don't think ap mids would complain about not getting blue.
On March 31 2013 18:14 wei2coolman wrote: Add virtually no manacost champs to "cd based champ"; it's pretty ridic how low the mana costs for champs are now...
As much as people complain about "mobility creep" I honestly think "mana cost creep" has been much more severe.
mobility creep is fine, in the sense that there are counter play options to it, you can create a peel comp, or hard disengage comp (like gragas+janna+xin, etc champs)
But, holy fuck, mana costs are absurdly ridiculously low, there's no counterplay involved.
I dislike mobility creep because it really, really fucks up my favourite champ(Anivia) when she's somewhat on the weak side(also has to do with the mana issue, people can push her in for 1/3 the mana early on, and at 6, they don't spend 3-500 mana per wave to clear it either).
But mana management is honestly becoming a thing of the past. People get used to playing champs where there are no repercussions apart from CD for using a skill, and for a pure damage skill, you just throw it out because it costs nothing. Diana Q (basically negates the fact that she's a melee for the whole time pre-6 unless you're playing Swain or some other champ who destroys melee's). Khazix E, it's an ground targeted leap that basically costs half of any other leap/dash in the game, with no scaling cost either.
Honestly I think mages should have mana costs somewhere around the Lux range, where you need a mana item, or else you're relegated to only clearing creeps, with skills generally being too costly to use on harass even with blue buff.
On March 31 2013 18:50 kainzero wrote: i think mana costs are fine
jayce and khazix need tear vi using e in the jungle runs out of mana nami is a candidate for chalice depending on play style elise's neurotoxin can't be spammed anymore syndra needs chalice and can still run out of mana diana runs out of mana, can't spam crescent strike and shield in lane
it's not on dota level but it is there. if mana costs were negligible, i don't think ap mids would complain about not getting blue.
Utility skills should cost more. This applies to khazix E. Almost all junglers run oom if they spam skills without blue(some like noct/cho don't really need much mana to clear really fast). This is not a unique problem. Not complaining about Elise now, but if she had reasonable mana costs in the first place they wouldn't have had to do all the nerfs. You can run out of mana on Anivia with blue buff + tear+roa. Building a single mana item is not a cause to call for a mana cost buff. If I had my way, every mage who wanted to do more than kill creeps endlessly with blue buff would have mana costs tuned to require a mana item. Diana runs oom if you have to use shield. Q is free.
I once went through the list of champs and listed them as "needs buffs, needs nerfs, needs adjustments (buffs and nerfs), needs total rework, needs to be scrapped completely."
Something pretty close to half of the existing champions fell into the latter two categories. This was probably 6+ months ago, so you can imagine how it is now.
yesterday i was watching stream incarnati0n guy (3.1k elo LOL) he mains fizz, it was interesting how he almost always got fb at lvl2 with cheese which seems very powerful, he uses 30 offence and arm/mr pen marks with red pot he literally 1 shot lux at lvl 2 (if possible shares exp with jungler from wraiths/wolves ) with W+Q + ignite combo it was hilarious. I wanted do the same today but hybrid marks cost 7.2k IP, fml
On March 31 2013 18:14 wei2coolman wrote: Add virtually no manacost champs to "cd based champ"; it's pretty ridic how low the mana costs for champs are now...
As much as people complain about "mobility creep" I honestly think "mana cost creep" has been much more severe.
mobility creep is fine, in the sense that there are counter play options to it, you can create a peel comp, or hard disengage comp (like gragas+janna+xin, etc champs)
But, holy fuck, mana costs are absurdly ridiculously low, there's no counterplay involved.
I dislike mobility creep because it really, really fucks up my favourite champ(Anivia) when she's somewhat on the weak side(also has to do with the mana issue, people can push her in for 1/3 the mana early on, and at 6, they don't spend 3-500 mana per wave to clear it either).
But mana management is honestly becoming a thing of the past. People get used to playing champs where there are no repercussions apart from CD for using a skill, and for a pure damage skill, you just throw it out because it costs nothing. Diana Q (basically negates the fact that she's a melee for the whole time pre-6 unless you're playing Swain or some other champ who destroys melee's). Khazix E, it's an ground targeted leap that basically costs half of any other leap/dash in the game, with no scaling cost either.
Honestly I think mages should have mana costs somewhere around the Lux range, where you need a mana item, or else you're relegated to only clearing creeps, with skills generally being too costly to use on harass even with blue buff.
Playing a lot of Zed recently, I feel like he's brining ressource management back to the table. On him, energy is more important than CDs, so it's sort of the same !
On March 31 2013 19:06 kongoline wrote: yesterday i was watching stream incarnati0n guy (3.1k elo LOL) he mains fizz, it was interesting how he almost always got fb at lvl2 with cheese which seems very powerful, he uses 30 offence and arm/mr pen marks with red pot he literally 1 shot lux at lvl 2 (if possible shares exp with jungler from wraiths/wolves ) with W+Q + ignite combo it was hilarious. I wanted do the same today but hybrid marks cost 7.2k IP, fml
I faced this recently. It's ridiculously cheesy, but extremely strong. Come to lane with like 30 flat AP, push pretty recklessly to hit level 2 ASAP, and just allin for free kill against anybody who doesn't flash the initial dash/stay completely zoned. Snowballs really hard too because it's a death so early against an assassin. Then team proceeds to rage at you etc etc.
On March 31 2013 17:06 WaveofShadow wrote: So, colour me sexist but I'm pretty sure half of the streams on Solomid are now random girls streaming in tank tops. What the fuck is this.
yeah pretty annoying, the other day there was a girl literally only showing her boobs on webcam and not even her face lol.
I dunno why I end up surprised that so many people watch them, but every time I end up going "REALLY?"
Which reminds me of the other really obnoxious thing streamers are doing lately: Plastering the entirety of their stream with "recent donators: bob, joe, curly, alison, fred, freddy, alex, joe, joe bob, billy bob joe, sean" "top donators: noah, charlotte, oliver, henry, benhamin, ethan, lucas, owen, william, bill, billy, billy bob, joe bob, billy joe bob"
(Also wtf why is "Declan" in the top 10 baby names for males and Liam #1? who the fk is naming these kids)
On March 31 2013 19:20 Craton wrote: I dunno why I end up surprised that so many people watch them, but every time I end up going "REALLY?"
Which reminds me of the other really obnoxious thing streamers are doing lately: Plastering the entirety of their stream with "recent donators: bob, joe, curly, alison, fred, freddy, alex, joe, joe bob, billy bob joe, sean" "top donators: noah, charlotte, oliver, henry, benhamin, ethan, lucas, owen, william, bill, billy, billy bob, joe bob, billy joe bob"
(Also wtf why is "Declan" in the top 10 baby names for males and Liam #1? who the fk is naming these kids)
On March 31 2013 18:14 wei2coolman wrote: Add virtually no manacost champs to "cd based champ"; it's pretty ridic how low the mana costs for champs are now...
As much as people complain about "mobility creep" I honestly think "mana cost creep" has been much more severe.
mobility creep is fine, in the sense that there are counter play options to it, you can create a peel comp, or hard disengage comp (like gragas+janna+xin, etc champs)
But, holy fuck, mana costs are absurdly ridiculously low, there's no counterplay involved.
I dislike mobility creep because it really, really fucks up my favourite champ(Anivia) when she's somewhat on the weak side.
wut
Also Brand, Lux, Morgana have somewhat high mana costs too. You can actually force champs like Pantheon and Wukong, heavily skill-reliant and using harass, to manage mana much more than average during laning. Stuff like Nidalee and Jayce doesn't need Tear to function. It just makes them able to spamspamspam their abilities and either not care about missing 75% of them or beat the opponent's sustain while staying à 80% mana, which isn't the same as "needing Tear" or "having mana troubles" (using Lux or TF for the waveclear as siege protection against a very heavy push comp is a more "legit" way to need mana because it's not you using a "crutch" for missed skills but your opponent forcing you to spend all that mana). Lux is super safe so she doesn't care, Brand and Morgana can't really 100-0 the wave so easily so they can't stack AP as recklessly as her (plus on Morg you want Zhonya early unless you're fed), Syndra, Cass and Orianna don't have huge mana costs but they tend to need more spells to achieve the same results so it increases their consumption.
I'd rather have champs balanced around examples like Viktor or Annie : they can easily clear and roam if they want to, but their costs are too prohibitive to just nuke the wave down every 30 seconds (the fact that they only have 1 AoE spell, on an average (Annie) long-ish (Viktor) cooldown, certainly helps), making blue buff important on them versus heavy pushers. Put Kha'Zix against Morde, once he's 6 he doesn't really care, he'll just W once every wave and Morde won't push him too fast. It's just that Tear allows him to spamspamspam that stuff mindlessly.
On March 31 2013 17:16 kongoline wrote: so they nerfed Lee's E to the ground because it made his ganks too strong and release champion with knock ups and slows with retarded jump range, fuck riot
No, they nerfed it because it was way out of line with other slows. Nunu's e was nerfed ages ago from 40-60%. Lee's never should have started at 40%.
On March 31 2013 17:16 kongoline wrote: so they nerfed Lee's E to the ground because it made his ganks too strong and release champion with knock ups and slows with retarded jump range, fuck riot
No, they nerfed it because it was way out of line with other slows. Nunu's e was nerfed ages ago from 40-60%. Lee's never should have started at 40%.
how is 40% out of line and nasus wither isnt, any current fotm jungler has knockups+ slows which are way superior nobody plays lee nowadays because hes worthless compared to them, riot just keeps releasing new champions with retarded kits meanwhile nerfing others with way inferior.
On March 31 2013 17:06 WaveofShadow wrote: So, colour me sexist but I'm pretty sure half of the streams on Solomid are now random girls streaming in tank tops. What the fuck is this.
Gogo wave! topless casting games will give some popularity <3.
PS: Joke, I haven't watched your casts in a while, where are mah casting golems?
On March 31 2013 17:16 kongoline wrote: so they nerfed Lee's E to the ground because it made his ganks too strong and release champion with knock ups and slows with retarded jump range, fuck riot
No, they nerfed it because it was way out of line with other slows. Nunu's e was nerfed ages ago from 40-60%. Lee's never should have started at 40%.
how is 40% out of line and nasus wither isnt, any current fotm jungler has knockups+ slows which are way superior nobody plays lee nowadays because hes worthless compared to them, riot just keeps releasing new champions with retarded kits meanwhile nerfing others with way inferior.
Because nasus won't ever win a low level duel. Lee sin and nunu could invade and fight whenever they wanted, and run away whenever they wanted, and you couldn't do anything about it. There was no risk/reward, just reward and get out of jail for free. Xins slow is only a tiny bit harder then nunu or lees, and his is a melee gap closer, both risk + reward, but much lower at max level. You're also confusing different forms of cc. What you're complaining about is that lee sin isn't a counter to pretty much any dueler/melee caster anymore, free to invade, and gank and counter gank without fear until late game, which was the problem. You're too used to lee sin being grossly over the threshold of what a champion should do. Nautilus was massively overpowered and now no one plays him, no one is complaining. I said this back in season 2, players aren't as good as they think if they main lee sin, and this goes especially for junglers.
Lee sin is one step above trash right now as far as I'm concerned, and rightly so. His kit does too much for any of it to be powerful.
^ lee is shit because counterjungling is dead in s3, his clear time sucks and health after clear isnt great, pretty sure he also loses alot of duels nowadays without armor on his W and with his E nerfed.
EPT
.![[image loading]](http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/March_2013/03_06_2013_Karma_Rework/Karma_Traditional_SS_thumb.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://questionablecontent.net/comics/1410.png)
![[image loading]](http://riot-web-static.s3.amazonaws.com/images/news/March_2013/03_28_2013_-_teaser/Freljord_04.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/shiroiusagi/redditicon.gif)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/shiroiusagi/twitter.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2KW6r0W.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NBTFKmR.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kZYSQTR.png)
![[image loading]](http://gyazo.com/8879aebe4535fcac2318a9168da0b837.png)
