Normal Mini Mafia LVI

On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release

On June 16 2014 22:45 goodkarma wrote:


I agree Release is looking scummy, but I wouldn't use that exact wording. He seems heavily invested in his case, but is only leaning towards ninja's side of this debate. These two statements especially didn't sit right with me from Release's post on 21:10 15 June 2014:

"As the situation between 27bunnies and YKZ currently stands, I am leaning on the side of 27bunnies."

And yet he ends this same post:

"I think 27bunnie has the right idea, but has not manifested clearly (or in enough detail) what needs to be said to properly incriminate YKZ."

Release doesn't seem that interested in what may develop from YKZ. He already has the verdict in mind... This is a HUGE inconsistency from how he starts his post.

On June 16 2014 17:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I find this discussion about YKZ/27nb and its origins really boring and I can't believe we've written so much about such bullshit. Biggest perpetrator of it is Release. He's just rehashed everything that's already said but made it more wordy.
##Vote Release

On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Boring because you both just kept repeating the same things but in different words and it wasn't going anywhere for me to get a read on either of you.

I don't know your alignment and I'm not going to make an association between unflipped players. People did that in cell. You supported that as mafia. Why are you trying to create associations now?


This gives me a slight scumread on you. Wanting to be right is an easy reason to lean back on without actually saying anything.


Boring. You could've introduced a discussion about anyone that had an opinion on the case for bullshit reasons. You also keep repeating yourself in the post as well. If you want me to actually read your posts thoroughly, be more to the point. I'm not interested in your description of what you provided and what you want. It won't help me get a more accurate read on you.


Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that.

On June 17 2014 03:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Release made a giant post about stuff that was really boring so I didn't get very far in it. The first part is definitely rehash. You're right in that he did add some original content afterwards though. Wordiness being alignment null is debatable but that debate wouldn't go anywhere so let's agree to disagree on that.

On June 17 2014 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Chezinu,
A bruised man visits the doctor. He tells the doctor that he saw the sheriff on a long stretch of road just outside of town. The sheriff was approached by two shadowed figures, a small figure and a large figure. The tall figure had its face obscured by a dark cap. The small figure was deformed, a scar running from the left side of his mouth. The rest of their figures obscured by the eclipsing sun. The man mentioned seeing a package delivered to the sheriff from these two gentlemen, whom then spotted him. He ran away as fast as he could as gunfire followed him. He fell on his face from a branch, then hid in the bushes. He overheard the two talking after they gave up their search. "It doesn't matter anyway. Operation Hyrule can no longer be stopped."

Are you familiar with the codeword Hyrule? What does it mean?

On June 17 2014 03:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Why do you think using associations between unflipped players is helpful in the current situation? Why do you think I'm town? Do you have any current scumreads other than YKZ?

It's scummy because it's something to fall back on. If your arguments fall apart it gives you a reason to continue pushing him, or when the heat returns on him after it disappears you can easily go after him again. It gives you an opening.


He's the perpetrator of the conversation continuing about that specific topic.

On June 18 2014 01:34 mderg wrote:
I generally don´t ask that many direct questions, I rather point things out that I find strange and most of the time people respond to these things. So it should have about the same effect as asking questions.

On June 18 2014 05:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

YKZ: No idea, it's BH.
Leaning scum on bunnies. Not sure if I want to vote bunnies or mderg. I don't like both bunnies and ykz's reason for townreading me but bunnies seems a lot more set on it for shaky grounds. Also don't like how she keeps pushing the unflipped associations thing, saying it's because of video mafia even though she's played a decent amount of forum mafia since then. Mderg is mostly a case of adding nothing to the conversation. That he thought my case made sense but didn't comment on goodkarma's much better post is something I don't understand either. I'm actually happy that Lazer stepped up to defend him because a lynch without opposition is generally bad for town. I don't think it's likely mafia would roll over and die with such a relatively inactive town that they'll just throw away a member on D1. I could lynch either of them atm.

On June 17 2014 14:48 YouKnowZhou wrote:
As far as I can see, I see no reason not to lynch her, and as far as I can see, I don't see why you don't see a reason not to lynch her.

On June 18 2014 05:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Hi Koshi.
##Vote Koshi
Replacements have been overwhelmingly mafia as of late. Plus I'm still salty from Cell I.

You've cited nothing that discerns scum BH from town BH. He loves policy and he overexaggerates his opinion to get people lynched. He stopped trying to convince people to lynch bunnies because he no longer believed that when he stopped doing that. The gambit on catching bunnies can be from either alignment, I'm not sure what you're drawing from that.

On June 18 2014 05:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH, policy: Lynch all D1 replacements.
In the past two cell games I hosted I think 4/5 replacements were mafia. It's a solid policy.
Make the right lynch. Lynch Koshi.

On June 16 2014 12:26 Snickers wrote:
So far I am leaning towards 27nb as scum. Although i said the kenpachi rule is useless, now that i understand it better, it does have some merit. It seems like for a scum to claim VT first day would be a tactic that would be stupidly selfish, since it would most likely hurt the whole scum team. It seems like a tactic only a bad scum team would use. (But how would a scum team know it had a disadvantage. Maybe with poor roles? Maybe by meta? I do not think a scum team would plan to use the kenpachi rule to their favor.) 27nb has not really commented on the kenpachi rule and is just dismissing it.

Also i am not voting for her yet.
Only eight out of the twelve players have posted so far, so it seems too early.

My reads for other players so far.
Artanis, sloosh and Ve have not said much so no read.
goodkarma seems to be playing standard. Nothing really sticking out at me for now. Maybe I will reread his posts.
Chezinu has a high ratio of text to information. Seems weird but it only the first day. I do not think this information is sufficient enough to even mention the s word.
YKZ seems to be a very knowledgeable player.

It seems for a stupid tactic for two scum to call each other out day 1. It seems like something that would be a risk that would be hard to get payed back on. Am i right about this? Another reason i am leaning towards 27nb, is if she is shown as scum, YKZ would then almost be proven as a town player and we would have a knowledgeable town player and only two more scum to hunt. Hopefully we could then protect him. I would not like to lynch someone with one of my two points being. "If we lynch her and shes a scum it will help a lot" because she still has a fair chance of not being scum. Also time is really precious for town so voting for such a long shot reason would show that town has bad chances after day one.

Please comment on my thoughts

On June 18 2014 07:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Chezinu, when will we see operation Adlez in motion?

On June 18 2014 07:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I can't lynch you though, I've already said that in my first post. Ninjabunnies is looking scummy enough that I can justify it too!

On June 18 2014 08:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

What do you feel your contributions have been throughout the game?

On June 18 2014 08:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I believe you have the longest filter of any player this game, yet you yourself say your only contributions are a huge conversation with YKZ which ended up in you having a null read on him, and your latest posts.. which exactly? Why should we not vote you?

On June 18 2014 08:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I thought that was all very non-alignment indicative. It just made both of you look bad when you kept reiterating the same thing.

Which? Point them out. I've gone through your filter before and I didn't really see much of note in it.


I don't have your role pm.

Unflipped associations are bad on forum mafia. It's worked against people more than it's worked before them.

When?

Why are you comparing yourself to YKZ when you consider him null whilst you have 5!! other scumreads, some of which you've barely commented on?

On June 18 2014 08:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Active doesn't make you town. Bunnies was active in Cell Mini and she was mafia. Activity alone is a terrible reason.

On June 20 2014 01:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Is anyone else wondering why Goodkarma got shot over slOosh? I think slOosh is townread by more people and had a more active role.

Also, Snickers, are you calling 27nb scum?

On June 20 2014 18:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
slOosh, you were scumbuddies with mderg in Detention. Do you feel he's playing similarly in this game?
BH, you were the host that game. What do you recall of his play and do you see similarities?

On June 21 2014 00:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Koshi, you hate playing scum whereas you like playing town. You're not playing right now, therefore I'm quite happy to vote you.

On June 21 2014 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Looking at the first post Release quoted of Snickers, it reminds me of mderg's post but it looks worse to me. Mderg's post mentioned all relevant posts whereas Snickers goes off giving null reads on people who hardly posted so far. What's also interesting is how Snickers changed his read on you after momentum swung in favour of that read, with VE and goodkarma chiming in, which is mighty coincidental. It's unfortunate that he's a smurf/new player so I can't check meta

On June 21 2014 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I probably would.

On June 21 2014 07:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm still on the market for lynching Koshi. A triple lynch today would be nice honestly.

On June 21 2014 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I can tell from the way he's interacted with slOosh in his filter why he does. He's also made it explicit why he likes Release. I'm not sure how he got the initial reads of me being towny and those two being scummy though as he flipped all three of those reads throughout the day in a very linear fashion, but I'm willing to scribble that up to not reading properly the first time around.

On June 21 2014 08:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
mderg, does the fact that no one other than Chezinu scumread VE after his case on you not give you pause to re-evaluate VE's lynch or ask questions about why other people aren't scumreading him? Why do you not care about your main scumread getting lynched and only drop in to vote for an easy lynch on Snickers now?

On June 21 2014 08:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
mderg, does the fact that no one other than Chezinu scumread VE after his case on you not give you pause to re-evaluate VE's lynch or ask questions about why other people aren't scumreading him? Why do you not care about your main scumread getting lynched and only drop in to vote for an easy lynch on Snickers now?

On June 22 2014 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
slOosh, what's your current read on Release?

On June 22 2014 07:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

We lynched who I wanted to lynch though. Both times.

On June 21 2014 05:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I thought his case was pretty decent.

I feel like my reads are utter shit this game though, so just gonna go and sheep you.
##Unvote
##Vote YouKnowZhou

On June 22 2014 07:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I'm going to estimate the chance of this being similar to the chance of England winning this year's world cup.

On June 22 2014 10:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Woop woop.
From those two I prefer BH. I think BH's scum capabilities are far stronger than slOosh and I think slOosh has played a good game on D1 and N2.

On June 21 2014 23:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
So I have been thinking about it lying in bed. If GK was killed for being so close to the truth where mderg is concerned, then I think a mafia BH would probably follow up the GK kill with a push on VE to ensure that mderg isn't targeted. A GK kill doesn't make sense followed up with a hard mderg push from a mafiaBH perspective I think. GK was getting suspicious of me before he was killed, so it makes sense from my perspective.

BH this means I'm giving you a pass tomorrow. I don't mean to offend, but PLEASE don't waste 90% of it blathering on about how confirmed town you are and how godly you are and shit. That's annoying and doesn't help anyone find mafia, not even you.

On June 22 2014 10:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
List of people we're not lynching today:
Artanis
Snickers
VisceraEyes
Release

Probably not lynching slOosh or Chez either, so that leaves BH, Lazer and Koshi. Those three candidates are the people I want to focus on, though slOosh and Chez are fair game too if you have a good case.

On June 22 2014 10:11 VisceraEyes wrote:

Chez ur on the table today. Unless you can coherently tell me why you're suspicious of...whoever, then I'd consider lynching you today.

On June 22 2014 10:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I believe I need to refresh your memory.



I'm not sure why you're confirmed town.

On June 21 2014 03:01 Chezinu wrote:
I have looked at everyone posts and came to a conclusion.

People who think Chezinu is town:
2. VisceraEyes
3. YouKnowZhou
5. Snickers
7. Lazermonkey
8. Release
9. mderg
10. Artanis[Xp]
11. Koshi
12. slOosh

Chezinu is town

The mafia are never wrong when it comes to knowing who is town. They are too scared to risk stating that I am Mafia. So, I just your untypical lunatic. It's Great to be Confirmed Town!

On June 17 2014 22:37 goodkarma wrote:


It is worth mentioning that a vote on you up until you suddenly came to life was a lurker vote. Like magic, a vote is cast on you and you come alive not to pursue any of your reads, but to defend yourself.

Would you mind clarifying your read on Release? This is the point you're most wishy-washy about in your opening post. Like apparently unflipped people piling on him gives you townie vibes, while a virtually nonexistent case made by Artansis makes you think he's looking scummy? And said nonexistent case is stronger than sloosh's case? Please do explain.

On June 21 2014 18:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
No Release, I'm desperate to give someone bonus points. Now stop focussing on Snickers, he's not scum. Your attention is better suited for just about anyone that isn't me/snickers/lazer.

On June 21 2014 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. I think your lynch targets are bad though. Also, the town reasoning should be obvious; he thought YKZ was more scummy than mderg, so he tried to get YKZ lynched.

On June 23 2014 05:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

If you think wordiness is what makes a case strong or weak you have a lot to learn about this game. Syllogism himself mentioned somehing similar and he's considered possibly the best town player of TL. The idea is that you have to have a very concrete reason for why someone is scum, the rest is just supporting evidence and not quite as important. It's those four lines that you push your case on and elaborate when you have the attention of others.

You've mentioned three things:
-Taking credit for things he hasn't done
-Hasn't pushed the thread forward with his own original posts
-His interaction with mderg seems to be a set up to prove he is town.

I can now assess whether I agree with that read by going through his filter myself, and I can consider if I think those things make VE scum. I'll do that later.

On June 23 2014 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Alright, that's a fair point. Not willing to lynch ykz anymore.

On June 21 2014 21:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Lazer, can you explain us how your read on YKZ and mderg evolved and why you voted for YKZ at the end?

On June 23 2014 15:24 Snickers wrote:


Also YKZ any thoughts on this? I understand if you do not want to read my unreadable post, so this is a bit more friendly.

On June 24 2014 03:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I agree that VE sounds pretty townie, but it's lacking in capslock. Capslock is VE's town seal.

On June 24 2014 03:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I really don't know right now. My reads tend to be shaped throughout all the interactions in the game but it feels like everyone's suspecting everyone right now which really messes up my compass of where to look. There's so much fluff and non-alignment related things filling up conversation that it's hard to motivate myself to read through it critically.

On June 18 2014 04:24 Lazermonkey wrote:
Mderg is just... Look through this part of his first post for example.


So his logic is something like this:
1. Since YKZ are battling each other they cannot both be scum.
2. And YKZ is probably town (for some really wierd reasoning).
3. Its possible that Bunnies is scum, points out several stuff that Bunnies that is alignment unindicative.
4. Dislikes that Bunnies says that Release is scummy but doesn't want him to be scum. This is like the only part that makes sense.

Then he proceeds to vote him. This vote is so out of place that I cannot even describe it with words. Pointing out several things that he even himself says isn't alignment indicative is just unnecessary. Yes, he said he disliked one of Bunnies posts. But he also said that he disliked Snickers and Release posting. Why vote Bunnies? Because it was the current wagon?

This shit just seem to careless to be scum. You don't see scum posting posts liek this because that's all scum care about, looking good. I'm calling bad town here.

##Unvote

On June 24 2014 04:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Nah, I want to lynch the Kosher.

This post is really bad.

On June 24 2014 05:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

The tone of your post makes no sense. Your question is phrased in a level-headed way, then you proceed to trash his reads. It looks incredibly forced to me.

On June 24 2014 05:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Can we please lynch Koshi though? His read post is so bad.
Talks about why VE is scum. Stops and goes over to Lazer and talks about how he wants to lynch Lazer, then ends his post with why VE is town based on unflipped associations presuming that Lazer is scum. He hasn't done anything this game other than voting for the right person in mderg. Case on Lazer boils down to "I'm not scum and he pushed me over his other suspects who I also think are town."
Is there any reason not to lynch him?
##Vote Koshi

On June 24 2014 06:01 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

I completely disagree. I think both BH/VE are town or scum, with an outside chance of BH being scum and VE town.

On June 24 2014 07:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Chez, BH, opinions on Koshi?

On June 24 2014 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
BH, given all the information so far, could you lay your scumread on VE out for me one more time for old time's sake?

On June 24 2014 07:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

You're right in that

On June 24 2014 07:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Your appeal to emotion bores me. Also, I'm not that certain you're scum, just that you're my biggest scumread in absence of others. It was just too funny to not take out of context.

On June 24 2014 08:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Emotional appeal does not help.

I still believe in a mass exodus onto Koshi. Is there anyone that has a townread on him that isn't based on something factually wrong (his townplay being bad)?

On June 24 2014 08:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Maybe your average scum, not VE scum. VE scum either actually fights the lynch or just leaves the thread. VE town rubs it in everyone's face that he's the wrong lynch.

On June 24 2014 08:53 slOosh wrote:
You said you were gonna push whoever survives tomorrow anyways, why so antsy?

On June 24 2014 08:53 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

It doesn't matter if you think it's stinking meta, it's accurate. Since when do you care about the way in which someone gives off towntells? It's either accurate or it isn't, and I'm pretty sure it's accurate. The faking anger/afk thing is all projection and something you can't be certain of.

On June 24 2014 08:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

3 minutes left and I mentioned the game names already. Hydra Mini Mafia for scum VE getting caught, Shadow Mini Mafia for Town VE martyring.

On June 23 2014 03:11 Lazermonkey wrote:

Wat.

I honestly don't understand what your trying here. Nevertheless, I am done with you for the moment. If you truly are town then you have better things to do.

On June 25 2014 03:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

No he hasn't, plus that doesn't mean he's not scum.
I misread SlOosh, thought I had proof that he's town but I actually don't. Bleh, if I did carpet bombing would work.

At first glance I don't see why not. Why do you think they can't?

On June 25 2014 04:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

You might be right. I think BH can be scum as well. Tunneled on two townies now. Also, some more stuff on Koshi:

Start of D3:


First time he mentions VE after that:

No evaluation. Calls VE town, then suddenly asks Lazer why VE is not mafia. There were no cases in between on BH for Koshi to re-eval, nor did Koshi mention anything about re-evaluating VE. He was interacting with Lazer at the time, considered VE town then suddenly wonders why Lazer doesn't think VE is mafia.

If there's anything in Koshi's fluffy post you want me to respond to I'll be happy to do so, but I don't see an added value for taking it apart piece by piece as a lot of it will be discussing non-alignment indicative things. The entire post is filled with nothing to push town forward and is full of emotional appeals that are frankly disgusting. If you can't handle the heat of someone calling you scum don't play the game.

On June 30 2014 09:06 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I saved myself on N2 you numbnuggets.

On June 30 2014 09:09 slOosh wrote:
Thank you Kurumi and OnceKing for hosting the game. It had a very managable post count and civil for the most part. Very nice.

Ok I need to do some serious debriefing right now.

On June 30 2014 09:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

My initial read on you was right. Stupid town consensus townreading you leading to me townreading you as well
Did get you from the grave though! PMed this to Kurumi 30 min before deadline.

Also, is there a scum qt?

On June 30 2014 09:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Hm, what made you think I was doc?

I saved GK until 30 min before deadline when I switched to SlOosh even though my townread on him was weaker just because I thought he was more likely to get shot.

On June 30 2014 09:25 slOosh wrote:
Man I played like garbage huh?

Like I don't even know what to take away from this game. Trust greenchecks more?

On June 19 2014 04:51 Snickers wrote:
You are an idiot or scum if you can't "see" the scum in mderg's first post. First off saying there is a chance you are only going to contribute one post to day one. This shows his terrible interest in this game. Then he tries to say he votes to prevent mod kill. Id rather him be modkilled than him help lynch someone because he felt a slight scum. You guys must have played so many games of mafia you cannot think logically. You have these rules that you hold so highly. Even if these rules were true you guys cannot even use them right. So assuming they are true they still are no use. And somebody mentioned something about release. If you can't see the scum in his post there is a problem or you are scum.

I cannot believe no one mentioned this aspect of this game. 27nb had the same principles in her posts from the start. Confused, emotional, silly. So has ykz. Cocky , deceiving, focused. We know 27nb was town. If ykz is mafia he is very good at it. Even after the proof that he was wrong or was lying. He perfectly continues his principals after the lynch. Release on the other hand had been inconsistent with his principals. He seems aggressive than passive.
Reactionary than static. I think it should be looked into. I won't be able to post or read until six hours from now. I will look at be (whoever name keeps getting mentioned).

Also koshi seems to be obsessed with me. I am thinking him as third mafia.

On June 30 2014 12:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I wonder if anyone knows why I read Chez as confirmed town.

On June 30 2014 12:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

It was this post. Can you tell why?

On June 30 2014 12:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:

Your claim timing was fine. You don't need to be confirmed town to claim. All you have to do is be convincing. Breadcrumbs are okay I guess but I don't bother with them myself. I feel that if I'm in a position where I need to claim I can prove it's real anyway, and it's always possible to forge fake breadcrumbs later out of posts you've made if you were scum.

Johnny Cash is a good answer, but not the answer I'm looking for!