EPTfuba: Weren´t you against this lynch? Why the vote on jabberwockzerg now?
Detention Mafia
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mderg
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fuba: Weren´t you against this lynch? Why the vote on jabberwockzerg now? | ||
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mderg
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mderg
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 01:49 27ninjabunnies wrote: There's only one person in this game who was on his team, and that was amiko. But i dont see amiko being even remotely active in this game right now, so your point there is invalid. This game hasn´t even been going for a day. So amiko not being active in this doesn´t mean it has to stay that way. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 01:52 Palmar wrote: We're lynching this guy if this jabber lynch is wrong for not reading the case and defending him anyway. Of course I read the case. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 01:52 fuba wrote: It wasn't an obvious lie to him. I mean, he knew it was a lie, but he didn't know that we would all know it was a lie. The only thing that's making me uneasy is that if he is scum, he chose this defense -_- The only way it wouldn´t get noticed is, if amiko was scum with him (assuming amiko reads this carefully). So by thinking logically it´s not unlikely we´d figure out he was lying. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 01:55 27ninjabunnies wrote: Oh yes, i know this, so i would love to hear what Amiko has to say when he does start commenting. But my point is how would his previous eating cheese and rice team call him out on it when one of them isnt even in this game, and the other isnt being active. So i called him out on it. I think it was a slip It might be a slip but I think it´s more likely that it´s not a slip and just bad play. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 02:15 fuba wrote: Mderg - who would you lynch over jabber? Right now I´d go with you because I didn´t like how you changed your opinion on jabber but didn´t bother to explain the reason for that until you were asked. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 02:20 slOosh wrote: What changed? He actually answered that already. I don´t like that he didn´t give the reason for that without being asked. On May 28 2014 01:33 fuba wrote: My position was that since it made no sense to lie as either alignment, I felt it was more likely a mistake. And I felt that this mistake was more likely to come from town rather than scum. His defense, however, is that he was actually hiding information and encouraging a possibility that he knew for a fact was incorrect. That makes it scummy. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 02:33 27ninjabunnies wrote: Explain further. What about it makes it just a bad play? Are you asking about why it´s bad play or why i think it´s not scummy but bad play? I´l answer both I don´t think that makes him scum because even considering that he missed the alignments of the last game being published it´s not unlikely to be figured out that he lied. Unless he is scum with amiko or somehow knows that amiko won´t notice it there is quite a huge risk of the lie being discovered. Why it´s bad play should be obvious with the situation he´s in right now. It makes him suspicious which he doesn´t want as either alignment. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 03:04 27ninjabunnies wrote: You are right. Unless amiko is with him, his play would be called out. However, what was I supposed to do, let it slide and hope that amiko comments on it? That's not something I would do. I think it´s good that you pointed it out but how everyone instantly jumps on him that´s what I don´t like. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 03:01 Alakaslam wrote: Jabberwockzerg's play is illogical to a clear extreme, mderg defends him so hard nonetheless, that to me this also screams scum. Mderg, if you are to defend jwz, I recommend being more specific in your refutation of the points laid against him. I think I´ve been pretty clear in my defense. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 03:32 Amiko wrote: @mderg: I can understand you having some hesitation on the initial jabberwockzerg points, though I think it's not a bad argument. What do you think of jabberwock's followup post(s)? For fuba, I understand that you didn't like that he voted for jabber without an explanation. I agree that we needed to press him for a reason, but do you feel like him voting without an explanation was scummy? I take it you do from this post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#224), but I'd have to disagree, I feel that players give reads/votes without explanation as either town or scum. Could you explain your thoughts on this a little more and if your feelings on fuba come from anywhere else? I don´t think his followup posts were as scummy as most people here make it sound. On May 27 2014 11:50 jabberwockzerg wrote: Clearing this up, I didn't mean mafia specifically, just non vanilla. Was this bad wording? Yes. Stupid of me? Yes. Learning experience, definitely this post seems honest to me. I don´t think anyone would make this defense, if it wasn´t actually the truth. It´s just too far of from anything I would have expected as defense. On May 28 2014 01:14 jabberwockzerg wrote: Lovely. I was trying to get the game moving along, I was pretty pumped to start interrogating and scum reading, which isn't how I acted last game, when I was scum. Lying about who was scum last game, I was trying to conceal information. I didn't realize that last game's roles were known, it would be beneficial for me if no one knew I was Mafia, just because there would be no real patterns of my play, and I could remain a wild card, which I thought could help me later. this is the post most people seem to see as the strongest scumtell. I don´t agree with his reasoning for withholding information but being wrong doesn´t make you scum. Although I agree that this post looks kinda bad it´s not like townies never make strange plays like this. Overall it´s just strange how almost everyone jumps on the wagon. IMO most lynches like this end up being wrong. I´d like to see a bit more from jabber. If he gives some more reads and defends himself a bit more, it might be clearer whether this was just a misstep or actually a scumslip. Right now I´m not convinced that it´s a scumslip, though. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote: Hey im scumhunting.... So im thinking, Team for mafia: Jabber/Sqrt/mderg Or Jabber/palmer/mderg Something like that, Id lynch both jabber and mderg though I don´t get how defending jabber like I did would make any sense, if we were both scum. That would be like the worst mafia play ever. Me being scum only makes sense, if jabber flips town. I could see mafia reasons for that. But hard defending a scummate who will almost certainly be lynched anyway doesn´t seem like scum play. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 23:23 Chromatically wrote: mderg, what would you say your objective is for today? What outcome would you be most happy with?? Well, my objective is to lynch scum but I don´t think that´s what you want to hear. It´s difficult to find a proper answer to that question because it´s not like I have someone I really want to lynch. I still don´t want jabber to be lynched. The outcome I would be most happy with would be lynching someone who is not jabber and scum. But since my defense for jabber didn´t seem to convince people I don´t think someone else will be lynched. I´d also be happy, if jabber flipped scum. That would make me wrong but it would put us in a good position. | ||
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mderg
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On May 28 2014 02:19 mderg wrote: Right now I´d go with you because I didn´t like how you changed your opinion on jabber but didn´t bother to explain the reason for that until you were asked. The problem with that is that after that he basically wasn´t here anymore. This makes it difficult to actually make a solid case based on proper reasoning. I also want to see more from jabber. If he´s town, we could at least gain something from his reads. | ||
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mderg
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I agree with Amiko that Haru´s play has been strange. The part about the odds is not something I would take seriously. To me it seemed like some kind of joke post. The second point Amiko raises about Haru is definitely strange play. It kinda seemed like throwing a fake lifeline to jabber in order to have some point against him regardless of how jabber continues to play. The third point is something that could go either way. It´s difficult to get a clear read out of setup discussion. So it´s definitely worth it to keep a closer eye on HaruRH. | ||
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mderg
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On May 29 2014 05:21 Amiko wrote: Oh, I had a point on Palmar I intended to raise and I just don't want to forget about it, and sqrt/others you can consider it if you want: I do townread Palmar for his play d1. But, I do think his meta works against a townread on him. Palmar self-described himself as follows in the "game of champions" http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/3-game-mafia-champions-ww-invitational-game-thread-1428519/index2.html I won't talk about that game very much because I don't want to make Palmar cry (I didn't read the whole thing anyway, but I am not sure the players did either) (j/k you guys were pretty cool). On a meta-level, I don't think I'd say Palmar has led town D1, it feels more like he has played a supportive role by encouraging the lynch on JWZ. It does make it a little more possible that he is opportunistic mafia pushing for a lynch. I still feel better about my townread, though. I agree that it works against him but I generally hate everything that´s based on self meta. So I take this with a grain of salt. | ||
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mderg
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