Welcome to the Patch General Discussion thread for the League of Legends subforum. This thread is for discussion around League of Legends and the most recent patch. Free feel to talk about anything LoL related here that does not already have its own thread. While posting standards tend to be rather lax in this thread, pointless spam will not be tolerated.
With that Cait buff can we also hope that her buggy auto is going to get fixed?
and ouch that nerf to Hecarim homeguard TP but kinda understandable since it was basically a free half hp burst on any squishy with almost no counterplay
I'm happy about the hecarim and kata changes. At my level, kata is quite problematic. It's not fun to play with or against her for me, and I'm hoping this will change that a bit. And I didn't like the hecarim/homeguard combination into dead carry at all. I don't have much experience with it as a player, but watching it annoyed me quite a bit.
On June 10 2015 08:08 MooMooMugi wrote: With that Cait buff can we also hope that her buggy auto is going to get fixed?
and ouch that nerf to Hecarim homeguard TP but kinda understandable since it was basically a free half hp burst on any squishy with almost no counterplay
On June 10 2015 09:00 Slusher wrote: who chose these colors for the zac chroma??? bugglegum, I'm in but the other two are ??????????????????????????????????????????
It's Oil Zac, Bubblegum Zac, and Bronze Zac. Personally I'd have preferred the Bronze Zac be something else (Ice Cream Zac, Golden Zac, Quicksilver Zac, etc.)
I'm more excited for Pool Party Zac, a skin that has been seen in previous Pool Party splash arts (and was fucking called for by the community).
Also, Pool Party Rek'Sai is having a land shark become an actual shark... I'm ok with this.
On June 10 2015 08:11 Yorbon wrote: I'm happy about the hecarim and kata changes. At my level, kata is quite problematic. It's not fun to play with or against her for me, and I'm hoping this will change that a bit. And I didn't like the hecarim/homeguard combination into dead carry at all. I don't have much experience with it as a player, but watching it annoyed me quite a bit.
it's honestly not gonna make a difference. what will hurt more is the ludens nerf. kat shunpo is already so incredibly weak that you'd max it last and frequently just use it to ward jump get to a minion so you are in w range. .15 ap won't really matter.
Kat E nerf does basically nothing. She always maxes E last and the 20 base and 0.15 ratio won't even dent her.
Luden's nerf will hurt her a little bit, but since Katarina has free spam on W, I think the effect will be marginal on her (comparing to Ziggs, Azir, etc.). Also Katarina can still hop around to charge her Luden's.
is anyone else having a problem with higher ping? i was playing a game and my ping just randomly went from 73 to 148, and it stayed there. I dont think it's a problem with my ISP because I get normal ping on other games. Rito servers being problematic for anyone?
Network Operations – a few seconds ago Due to an issue with one of our internet providers, players in the southwest portion of the United States may experience higher than normal pings. We are working to resolve.
jayce top is so weak, he is forced to take tp to stay relevant and without ignite its hard to pressure all these big fat tanks out of lane and nearly every toplaner has such insane gank assist/setup mao/irelia/ryze/gnar/shen and his early game is still too weak imo to be played mid
Arcane Mastery (Passive) cooldown reducing effect is now 105/110/115/120/125% of Q's CD based on Q rank from 4 seconds / 100% of Q's cooldown Arcane Mastery (Passive) stack duration lowered to 8 seconds from 12 seconds Arcane Mastery (Passive) supercharged duration down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds
Overload (Q) damage changed to 60/95/130/165/200 from 65/95/125/155/185 Overload (Q) mana cost changed to 40 at all rank from 30/35/40/45/50 Overload (Q) new effect "Arcane Mastery's cooldown reducing effect is increased to 105/110/115/120/125% of Overload's cooldown"
Rune Prison (W) cooldown increased to 24 seconds from 14 seconds. Rune Prison (W) root duration changed to 1.25 seconds at all ranks from .75/1/1.25/1.5/1.75 Spell Flux (E) cooldown reduced to 7.25/6.75/6.25/5.75/5.25 from 7 at all ranks Spell Flux (E) mana cost reduced to 60/65/70/75/80 from 60/70/80/90/100 Spell Flux (E) initial damage lowered to 32/44/56/68/80 from 50/66/82/98/114 Spell Flux (E) return damage lowered to 16/22/28/34/40 from 25/33/41/49/57 Desperate Power (R) duration lowered to 4 seconds at all ranks from 6 seconds.
Dunno why they keep buffing shyvana. She can get real strong with only a few items (Botrk/fmallet/randuins), and only way to really stop her is strong kiters (ashe). Do wish they'd do a QoL change tho: increase the width on her ult knockback or at least make it a little more consistant
On June 10 2015 14:00 57 Corvette wrote: Dunno why they keep buffing shyvana. She can get real strong with only a few items (Botrk/fmallet/randuins), and only way to really stop her is strong kiters (ashe). Do wish they'd do a QoL change tho: increase the width on her ult knockback or at least make it a little more consistant
I think the idea is to give her a real niche.
Currently I suppose it is a huge amount of free stats, strong in fights but no real lock down. Gives her a reason to be picked. Even still I think she'll be passed over for other tanks.
I could be wrong, but I believe she should be wicked strong to compensate for no reliable mobility and no cc.
On June 10 2015 08:08 MooMooMugi wrote: With that Cait buff can we also hope that her buggy auto is going to get fixed?
and ouch that nerf to Hecarim homeguard TP but kinda understandable since it was basically a free half hp burst on any squishy with almost no counterplay
Shen finally gets MR/level after years lol
cait's auto bug is never going to go away
Seriously that damn bug is the bane of my existence. It's what, the 10th time the damn thing's come back?
Ult buff is nice though. My two mains given QoL buffs in the same patch is thx (Brand/Cait).
Zac and Lulu's skins are probably the best of the pool party set (Lulu for being cutesy, Zac because he finally gets a better skin than his shitty purple ooze one, making his default skin be the best one up til now).
On June 10 2015 16:24 739 wrote: Pool Party Zac, damn I was looking for that skin for a while, it's awesome.
Also nice for the Aatrox passive buff but it's not enough :\
Honestly it might let him become viable in the meta again; assuming your team knows what the heck you're doing and you can get to late game status (1 offensive item + full tank) you'll be really hard for the enemy team to deal with as they will have to chunk through his 3k+ health pool, pop the passive, wait for 2-3s while your team is doing damage/causing chaos, then he pops back up and continues to pursue the enemy backline/damage dealers.
I mean, once he hits 16 his passive will be up every 2.5 minutes, that's generally how long a break occurs between major fights in the endgame (backline wants it's summoners up to stay alive). Hell, I've seen some Aatrox's get GA too just for the triple revive.
I have issues with how you'd play Brand atm when anything with dashes/blinks shits on him, and his lack of range means he doesn't do much against a bunch of champions (Syndra, Varus, Kog, etc.).
Oh boy that Rek'Sai ult on the pool party skin, though. I didn't expect that.
I'm excited if Brand makes a comeback. He's been a favorite mage of mine to both play and watch, and yes with champions like Yasuo, Kalista, and Ekko having been released recently who are very mobile his Q won't be impossible to hit - just very hard. I'd like him to be back in the status of, if he hits his stun they're dead.
He was never the same after they removed that luxurious mane of chest hair. I'm intrigued what kind of item he could be given to make him relevant again.
On June 10 2015 22:57 Zdrastochye wrote: I'm excited if Brand makes a comeback. He's been a favorite mage of mine to both play and watch, and yes with champions like Yasuo, Kalista, and Ekko having been released recently who are very mobile his Q won't be impossible to hit - just very hard. I'd like him to be back in the status of, if he hits his stun they're dead.
Thing is, how do you stun them? Against a lot of popular mages you can't hit E, and you lose out on damage if you have to hit W (also they can run away or behind minions if they see that).
Unless he can straight up blow them, he loses trades to gap closer and "reliable" upfront cc (Ahri's Charm is super easy to hit if they combine it with ult and know what they're doing, Annie, etc.) because his own stun is too slow to come out before either they're on him, or he's dead before their own cc wears off.
For example you can't really try to catch anyone against a Thresh because his Q has more range than your whole kit and if he sees you go for something it's a free hit thanks to your animation (it's actually hard to get shit done as Viktor against a team with Thresh for the same reason).
On June 10 2015 23:16 Zdrastochye wrote: He was never the same after they removed that luxurious mane of chest hair. I'm intrigued what kind of item he could be given to make him relevant again.
New item is obviously going to be chest hair you can upgrade to be a more and more manly mane giving an increasing chance to fear male and charm female (and Taric) champions.
On June 10 2015 13:48 FinestHour wrote: Arcane Mastery (Passive) cooldown reducing effect is now 105/110/115/120/125% of Q's CD based on Q rank from 4 seconds / 100% of Q's cooldown Arcane Mastery (Passive) stack duration lowered to 8 seconds from 12 seconds Arcane Mastery (Passive) supercharged duration down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds
Overload (Q) damage changed to 60/95/130/165/200 from 65/95/125/155/185 Overload (Q) mana cost changed to 40 at all rank from 30/35/40/45/50 Overload (Q) new effect "Arcane Mastery's cooldown reducing effect is increased to 105/110/115/120/125% of Overload's cooldown"
Rune Prison (W) cooldown increased to 24 seconds from 14 seconds. Rune Prison (W) root duration changed to 1.25 seconds at all ranks from .75/1/1.25/1.5/1.75 Spell Flux (E) cooldown reduced to 7.25/6.75/6.25/5.75/5.25 from 7 at all ranks Spell Flux (E) mana cost reduced to 60/65/70/75/80 from 60/70/80/90/100 Spell Flux (E) initial damage lowered to 32/44/56/68/80 from 50/66/82/98/114 Spell Flux (E) return damage lowered to 16/22/28/34/40 from 25/33/41/49/57 Desperate Power (R) duration lowered to 4 seconds at all ranks from 6 seconds.
cya later
These 2 combined is why you just throw a random damage or CD nerf on W into 5.11. That way they don't have to playtest what is essentially a rework (of the rework) of Ryze on a PBE that they acknowledge doesn't help them for balance testing.
On June 10 2015 13:48 FinestHour wrote: Arcane Mastery (Passive) cooldown reducing effect is now 105/110/115/120/125% of Q's CD based on Q rank from 4 seconds / 100% of Q's cooldown Arcane Mastery (Passive) stack duration lowered to 8 seconds from 12 seconds Arcane Mastery (Passive) supercharged duration down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds
Overload (Q) damage changed to 60/95/130/165/200 from 65/95/125/155/185 Overload (Q) mana cost changed to 40 at all rank from 30/35/40/45/50 Overload (Q) new effect "Arcane Mastery's cooldown reducing effect is increased to 105/110/115/120/125% of Overload's cooldown"
Rune Prison (W) cooldown increased to 24 seconds from 14 seconds. Rune Prison (W) root duration changed to 1.25 seconds at all ranks from .75/1/1.25/1.5/1.75 Spell Flux (E) cooldown reduced to 7.25/6.75/6.25/5.75/5.25 from 7 at all ranks Spell Flux (E) mana cost reduced to 60/65/70/75/80 from 60/70/80/90/100 Spell Flux (E) initial damage lowered to 32/44/56/68/80 from 50/66/82/98/114 Spell Flux (E) return damage lowered to 16/22/28/34/40 from 25/33/41/49/57 Desperate Power (R) duration lowered to 4 seconds at all ranks from 6 seconds.
cya later
These 2 combined is why you just throw a random damage or CD nerf on W into 5.11. That way they don't have to playtest what is essentially a rework (of the rework) of Ryze on a PBE that they acknowledge doesn't help them for balance testing.
Much prefer the olafed option. When strong he completely ruins top lane for 90 percent of The champ pool. Also he is just a skill less brain dead champion to me just a low skill level champion shouldn't ever get to become tanky and high damage
On June 10 2015 13:48 FinestHour wrote: Arcane Mastery (Passive) cooldown reducing effect is now 105/110/115/120/125% of Q's CD based on Q rank from 4 seconds / 100% of Q's cooldown Arcane Mastery (Passive) stack duration lowered to 8 seconds from 12 seconds Arcane Mastery (Passive) supercharged duration down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds
Overload (Q) damage changed to 60/95/130/165/200 from 65/95/125/155/185 Overload (Q) mana cost changed to 40 at all rank from 30/35/40/45/50 Overload (Q) new effect "Arcane Mastery's cooldown reducing effect is increased to 105/110/115/120/125% of Overload's cooldown"
Rune Prison (W) cooldown increased to 24 seconds from 14 seconds. Rune Prison (W) root duration changed to 1.25 seconds at all ranks from .75/1/1.25/1.5/1.75 Spell Flux (E) cooldown reduced to 7.25/6.75/6.25/5.75/5.25 from 7 at all ranks Spell Flux (E) mana cost reduced to 60/65/70/75/80 from 60/70/80/90/100 Spell Flux (E) initial damage lowered to 32/44/56/68/80 from 50/66/82/98/114 Spell Flux (E) return damage lowered to 16/22/28/34/40 from 25/33/41/49/57 Desperate Power (R) duration lowered to 4 seconds at all ranks from 6 seconds.
cya later
These 2 combined is why you just throw a random damage or CD nerf on W into 5.11. That way they don't have to playtest what is essentially a rework (of the rework) of Ryze on a PBE that they acknowledge doesn't help them for balance testing.
Much prefer the olafed option. When strong he completely ruins top lane for 90 percent of The champ pool. Also he is just a skill less brain dead champion to me just a low skill level champion shouldn't ever get to become tanky and high damage
I'm sorry are we talking about gnar because it sounds like you're describing gnar.
On June 10 2015 13:48 FinestHour wrote: Arcane Mastery (Passive) cooldown reducing effect is now 105/110/115/120/125% of Q's CD based on Q rank from 4 seconds / 100% of Q's cooldown Arcane Mastery (Passive) stack duration lowered to 8 seconds from 12 seconds Arcane Mastery (Passive) supercharged duration down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds
Overload (Q) damage changed to 60/95/130/165/200 from 65/95/125/155/185 Overload (Q) mana cost changed to 40 at all rank from 30/35/40/45/50 Overload (Q) new effect "Arcane Mastery's cooldown reducing effect is increased to 105/110/115/120/125% of Overload's cooldown"
Rune Prison (W) cooldown increased to 24 seconds from 14 seconds. Rune Prison (W) root duration changed to 1.25 seconds at all ranks from .75/1/1.25/1.5/1.75 Spell Flux (E) cooldown reduced to 7.25/6.75/6.25/5.75/5.25 from 7 at all ranks Spell Flux (E) mana cost reduced to 60/65/70/75/80 from 60/70/80/90/100 Spell Flux (E) initial damage lowered to 32/44/56/68/80 from 50/66/82/98/114 Spell Flux (E) return damage lowered to 16/22/28/34/40 from 25/33/41/49/57 Desperate Power (R) duration lowered to 4 seconds at all ranks from 6 seconds.
cya later
These 2 combined is why you just throw a random damage or CD nerf on W into 5.11. That way they don't have to playtest what is essentially a rework (of the rework) of Ryze on a PBE that they acknowledge doesn't help them for balance testing.
Much prefer the olafed option. When strong he completely ruins top lane for 90 percent of The champ pool. Also he is just a skill less brain dead champion to me just a low skill level champion shouldn't ever get to become tanky and high damage
I'm sorry are we talking about gnar because it sounds like you're describing gnar.
With Gnar there's at least some room for counterplay, and nerfing him is easier (it's basically number tweaks and knowing how to play vs. him in lane and in team fights). The change Riot made to his passive on how long Rage sticks around and how long he has to wait before going Mega again seems to have done the trick, so by in large I'd consider Gnar to be a successful, mostly-balanced champion.
With Ryze right now there really isn't much counterplay, you either play him or ban him. With old Ryze when he became tanky it at least required him to get some items (usually Tear, WoTA, and SV or Frozen Heart), now all new Ryze needs is Tear, Void Staff, and being above level 6.
On June 10 2015 13:48 FinestHour wrote: Arcane Mastery (Passive) cooldown reducing effect is now 105/110/115/120/125% of Q's CD based on Q rank from 4 seconds / 100% of Q's cooldown Arcane Mastery (Passive) stack duration lowered to 8 seconds from 12 seconds Arcane Mastery (Passive) supercharged duration down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds
Overload (Q) damage changed to 60/95/130/165/200 from 65/95/125/155/185 Overload (Q) mana cost changed to 40 at all rank from 30/35/40/45/50 Overload (Q) new effect "Arcane Mastery's cooldown reducing effect is increased to 105/110/115/120/125% of Overload's cooldown"
Rune Prison (W) cooldown increased to 24 seconds from 14 seconds. Rune Prison (W) root duration changed to 1.25 seconds at all ranks from .75/1/1.25/1.5/1.75 Spell Flux (E) cooldown reduced to 7.25/6.75/6.25/5.75/5.25 from 7 at all ranks Spell Flux (E) mana cost reduced to 60/65/70/75/80 from 60/70/80/90/100 Spell Flux (E) initial damage lowered to 32/44/56/68/80 from 50/66/82/98/114 Spell Flux (E) return damage lowered to 16/22/28/34/40 from 25/33/41/49/57 Desperate Power (R) duration lowered to 4 seconds at all ranks from 6 seconds.
cya later
These 2 combined is why you just throw a random damage or CD nerf on W into 5.11. That way they don't have to playtest what is essentially a rework (of the rework) of Ryze on a PBE that they acknowledge doesn't help them for balance testing.
Much prefer the olafed option. When strong he completely ruins top lane for 90 percent of The champ pool. Also he is just a skill less brain dead champion to me just a low skill level champion shouldn't ever get to become tanky and high damage
He doesn't necessarily get that tanky now because if he builds stuff like FH and Banshee's/Abyssal straight after RoA+Tear then he doesn't deal that much more damage (he needs AP, they smashed his mana ratios), and even though he has a high HP pool thanks to RoA and his shield, if you can cc him his lack of resistances means that he can die fairly quickly (ideally within the cc duration).
The few games I've had with him I couldn't afford to blow the passive on the frontline if there was a priority target (for example Jinx) because in a 1v1 with a carry without the passive's cooldown reduction up I'd die first. Against comps with divers, or a bunch of champs with low reach (Vi, Nautilus don't do crap when rooted compared to Thresh or Cho for example) you don't care because you explode an enemy for free and by the time you're busy stacking your passive again your team's cleaning up anyway. I've found that at my level people would die as much to pre-buff Ryze in lane than the current one (because they don't respect E's absurd base damage at level 1, and 3 seconds is enough for a WQEQ rotation to finish them off at level 3-4), and you still need to position correctly if the enemy team has sufficient range or peeling (Xerath, Varus, Alistar, etc.) or you'll die.
His damage (E in lane, and his passive in general) and the way his passive/root works even against wary opponents, and can't really be played around if his team can hard engage to pave him a way to his target is more of the issue I think. Amusingly enough I had issues dealing with an Annie because she'd cast Tibbers in front of me and I wouldn't be able to chain Qs on her because he'd absorb them, and I'd also take well over half my health from her combo.
On June 10 2015 13:48 FinestHour wrote: Arcane Mastery (Passive) cooldown reducing effect is now 105/110/115/120/125% of Q's CD based on Q rank from 4 seconds / 100% of Q's cooldown Arcane Mastery (Passive) stack duration lowered to 8 seconds from 12 seconds Arcane Mastery (Passive) supercharged duration down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds
Overload (Q) damage changed to 60/95/130/165/200 from 65/95/125/155/185 Overload (Q) mana cost changed to 40 at all rank from 30/35/40/45/50 Overload (Q) new effect "Arcane Mastery's cooldown reducing effect is increased to 105/110/115/120/125% of Overload's cooldown"
Rune Prison (W) cooldown increased to 24 seconds from 14 seconds. Rune Prison (W) root duration changed to 1.25 seconds at all ranks from .75/1/1.25/1.5/1.75 Spell Flux (E) cooldown reduced to 7.25/6.75/6.25/5.75/5.25 from 7 at all ranks Spell Flux (E) mana cost reduced to 60/65/70/75/80 from 60/70/80/90/100 Spell Flux (E) initial damage lowered to 32/44/56/68/80 from 50/66/82/98/114 Spell Flux (E) return damage lowered to 16/22/28/34/40 from 25/33/41/49/57 Desperate Power (R) duration lowered to 4 seconds at all ranks from 6 seconds.
cya later
These 2 combined is why you just throw a random damage or CD nerf on W into 5.11. That way they don't have to playtest what is essentially a rework (of the rework) of Ryze on a PBE that they acknowledge doesn't help them for balance testing.
Much prefer the olafed option. When strong he completely ruins top lane for 90 percent of The champ pool. Also he is just a skill less brain dead champion to me just a low skill level champion shouldn't ever get to become tanky and high damage
I'm sorry are we talking about gnar because it sounds like you're describing gnar.
With Gnar there's at least some room for counterplay, and nerfing him is easier (it's basically number tweaks and knowing how to play vs. him in lane and in team fights). The change Riot made to his passive on how long Rage sticks around and how long he has to wait before going Mega again seems to have done the trick, so by in large I'd consider Gnar to be a successful, mostly-balanced champion.
With Ryze right now there really isn't much counterplay, you either play him or ban him. With old Ryze when he became tanky it at least required him to get some items (usually Tear, WoTA, and SV or Frozen Heart), now all new Ryze needs is Tear, Void Staff, and being above level 6.
With Ryze there's at least some room for counterplay, and nerfing him is easier (it's basically number tweaks and knowing how to play vs. him in lane and in team fights). The change Riot made to his passive on how long Rage sticks around and how long he has to wait before going Mega again seems to have done the trick, so by in large I'd consider Gnar to be a successful, mostly-balanced champion.
With Gnar right now there really isn't much counterplay, you either play him or ban him.
On June 10 2015 13:48 FinestHour wrote: Arcane Mastery (Passive) cooldown reducing effect is now 105/110/115/120/125% of Q's CD based on Q rank from 4 seconds / 100% of Q's cooldown Arcane Mastery (Passive) stack duration lowered to 8 seconds from 12 seconds Arcane Mastery (Passive) supercharged duration down to 4 seconds from 6 seconds
Overload (Q) damage changed to 60/95/130/165/200 from 65/95/125/155/185 Overload (Q) mana cost changed to 40 at all rank from 30/35/40/45/50 Overload (Q) new effect "Arcane Mastery's cooldown reducing effect is increased to 105/110/115/120/125% of Overload's cooldown"
Rune Prison (W) cooldown increased to 24 seconds from 14 seconds. Rune Prison (W) root duration changed to 1.25 seconds at all ranks from .75/1/1.25/1.5/1.75 Spell Flux (E) cooldown reduced to 7.25/6.75/6.25/5.75/5.25 from 7 at all ranks Spell Flux (E) mana cost reduced to 60/65/70/75/80 from 60/70/80/90/100 Spell Flux (E) initial damage lowered to 32/44/56/68/80 from 50/66/82/98/114 Spell Flux (E) return damage lowered to 16/22/28/34/40 from 25/33/41/49/57 Desperate Power (R) duration lowered to 4 seconds at all ranks from 6 seconds.
cya later
These 2 combined is why you just throw a random damage or CD nerf on W into 5.11. That way they don't have to playtest what is essentially a rework (of the rework) of Ryze on a PBE that they acknowledge doesn't help them for balance testing.
Much prefer the olafed option. When strong he completely ruins top lane for 90 percent of The champ pool. Also he is just a skill less brain dead champion to me just a low skill level champion shouldn't ever get to become tanky and high damage
He doesn't necessarily get that tanky now because if he builds stuff like FH and Banshee's/Abyssal straight after RoA+Tear then he doesn't deal that much more damage (he needs AP, they smashed his mana ratios), and even though he has a high HP pool thanks to RoA and his shield, if you can cc him his lack of resistances means that he can die fairly quickly (ideally within the cc duration).
The few games I've had with him I couldn't afford to blow the passive on the frontline if there was a priority target (for example Jinx) because in a 1v1 with a carry without the passive's cooldown reduction up I'd die first. Against comps with divers, or a bunch of champs with low reach (Vi, Nautilus don't do crap when rooted compared to Thresh or Cho for example) you don't care because you explode an enemy for free and by the time you're busy stacking your passive again your team's cleaning up anyway. I've found that at my level people would die as much to pre-buff Ryze in lane than the current one (because they don't respect E's absurd base damage at level 1, and 3 seconds is enough for a WQEQ rotation to finish them off at level 3-4), and you still need to position correctly if the enemy team has sufficient range or peeling (Xerath, Varus, Alistar, etc.) or you'll die.
His damage (E in lane, and his passive in general) and the way his passive/root works even against wary opponents, and can't really be played around if his team can hard engage to pave him a way to his target is more of the issue I think. Amusingly enough I had issues dealing with an Annie because she'd cast Tibbers in front of me and I wouldn't be able to chain Qs on her because he'd absorb them, and I'd also take well over half my health from her combo.
Annie works because of Tibbers and her combo basically blowing up new Ryze (compared to old Ryze's build path it'd probably do half his health before he'd run away and heal up with his ult and E). Any burst mage with some range and a hard CC skill can probably 100-0 new Ryze. But who plays a burst mage in the top lane?
Random aside: I wonder how Cho and Fiddle would do against new Ryze, seeing as they're the only ones left with a silence in their kit. Silence him and chunk him down before he gets in range, back off, rinse and repeat?
Not sure if you follow other sports but ESPN is viewed in a similar light by every hardcore sports subculture. I'm a huge football nerd and everyone considers ESPN a pretty huge joke in general since its just watered down stuff for the mainstream masses. They are still only verrrry slowly been incorporating more advanced stats and analysis despite those being around for 10+ years, and you still have hilariously wrong tropes like "When running back X has Y carries his team is 33-0, why don't they give him the ball!!!" constantly spouted by ESPN "analysts" and commentators.
On the flip side, they are by far the largest sports "journalism" brand so a front page article on there (and not a brief one occurring right before worlds) is pretty big in terms of exposure.
as someone who played kha'zix I still can't get over how hyped that kill in his first game is. Ambition made a huge mistake in evolving without leaving vision, that shit is like a 3 sec uncancelable stun, and you needed to leave vision to charge up your passive at that time anyway (the entire point of evolving W back then was that it would proc passive damage)
stupid/arrogant play by ambition >>>>>>>>> good reaction by faker
On June 11 2015 05:12 Slusher wrote: as someone who played kha'zix I still can't get over how hyped that kill in his first game is. Ambition made a huge mistake in evolving without leaving vision, that shit is like a 3 sec uncancelable stun, and you needed to leave vision to charge up your passive at that time anyway (the entire point of evolving W back then was that it would proc passive damage)
stupid/arrogant play by ambition >>>>>>>>> good reaction by faker
Ambition probably thought Faker wouldn't dive him under turret because he was low on mana and his creep wave had just arrived, so even if he was getting pushed in by Faker the creeps would discourage him from diving.
But #thingsfakerdoes happened, dove him and got a free kill for basically one tower hit and blowing his flash, then used the exp. advantage to help dive in bot and got a billion kills off that too.
On June 11 2015 05:37 Slusher wrote: you just don't evolve in vision, it's lazy, you need to leave vision to get the bonus damage from the evolve anyway, so it is pointless not to do so
I'm not saying you're wrong (Ambition was being lazy and Faker punished him for it). I'm just trying to figure out his thought process leading up to the play.
I mean your playing mid lane, vs. a champion with an execute and you are already half health, you need to use an ability that will stun yourself for almost 3 seconds, do you do it right in their face?
ryze is balanced the top line says.. well as a ryze main i love the guy.... pre rework.. granted his q wasnt a skillshot and you had 3 to 4 items you had to have.. which is why i understand the reasoning behind the rework.. but honestly right now i just would rather have had they had sticked to the visual updates... post rework ryze.. he was clunky but somewhat okay.. patch 5.10 he was just plain ridiculous.. got 100 kills with him in 3 normals.. so ofcourse he needed nerfing... but in 5.11 he is plain unplayable.. he is so clunky to "spam" spells with when passive is up, which kinda is the only reason to make that passive...furthermore.. what made ryze great to play in my oppinion was his tankiness pre rework and the fact that he scale best of of mana made him speciel as no one else does that.. since we have several champs who scale of health, why not let ryze keep his one special thing he had... another thing.. he is a medium to low/medium range mage.. so in a team fight you have to sneak in and kill a squishy while standing almost in the middle of the fight back to back with the tanks (almost).. but even with his shield he dies almost instantly now and ive been around every setup imaginable except pure sup items... the rework makes no sense in so many ways... drop the rework entirely.. give us old ryze with new visual effects... and dont rework him again untill you have actually thought it through!
On June 11 2015 04:53 DrunkenOne wrote: Not sure if you follow other sports but ESPN is viewed in a similar light by every hardcore sports subculture. I'm a huge football nerd and everyone considers ESPN a pretty huge joke in general since its just watered down stuff for the mainstream masses. They are still only verrrry slowly been incorporating more advanced stats and analysis despite those being around for 10+ years, and you still have hilariously wrong tropes like "When running back X has Y carries his team is 33-0, why don't they give him the ball!!!" constantly spouted by ESPN "analysts" and commentators.
On the flip side, they are by far the largest sports "journalism" brand so a front page article on there (and not a brief one occurring right before worlds) is pretty big in terms of exposure.
I don't know why people didn't like the article. ESPN got great access and actually revealed some interesting things that eSports writers seem to always try to keep confidential (like what is inside of a gaming house, discussing Faker's single-parent Dad). Plus that writer writes in a totally compelling way that kept me interested even though I knew the whole story already.
If there were more writers that actually wrote pieces like that in esports and not just LoLeSports puff pieces and press releases then arguments like "we don't need an asshole like Richard Lewis" might actually have some merit.
I enjoyed the ESPN article, it was interesting to read and had some stuff / perspectives that I didn't know. I really didn't like the last mainstream article I read though, the C9 one by the Kickstarter guy.
I'm really glad they're nerfing Luden's. Aram might be more than everyone that is AP stack Luden's and try to poke each other from 5 miles away while trying to avoid snowballs.
On June 11 2015 11:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Random question: Why the influx of Alistar bans? Because he just protects so well and that's good in the heavy tank meta?
If you watched MSI you notice that he is the #1 support if you are incompetent (Been true for almost ever, as evidenced by me not being terrible on him), however he is also pretty good if you are competent because he is Alistar and Q is the best non-ultimate support spell in the game.
On June 11 2015 11:57 kongoline wrote: he was pretty op since the ult buff nothing has changed people just started to playing him again
People just started playing him? Lies and damned lies.
Just seems odd to me is all. I've been using Alistar consistently for years as one of my go-to-supports and seeing his popularity suddenly jump up seems odd. I think part of it has to do with the particular ADCs in the meta at the moment as well as several of the supports.... and ironically today because of Cait/Janna being disabled he's extra-strong as those 2 are (imo) his biggest challenge.
On June 11 2015 11:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Random question: Why the influx of Alistar bans? Because he just protects so well and that's good in the heavy tank meta?
If you watched MSI you notice that he is the #1 support if you are incompetent (Been true for almost ever, as evidenced by me not being terrible on him), however he is also pretty good if you are competent because he is Alistar and Q is the best non-ultimate support spell in the game.
You said the same thing about Thresh on multiple occasions in the past.
Also the same could easily be argued for Flay then.
On June 11 2015 10:37 krndandaman wrote: hm i haven't played lb since the patch (don't really want to try anyways lol) but she seems pretty bad now. small sample size, but i've won easily against all 5 teams with lb today. im sure she'll still be viable in competitive especially in the hands of people like faker but a champ with already a low winrate in soloq getting a nerf like this made it a pretty shit champ to play (in soloq).
W nerf is noticeable but seems fine once you get used to it. Probably matters more for running than assassinating. Haven't really felt the effects of E nerf yet. Luden's charge/spell nerf is a pretty big hit though.
On June 11 2015 11:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Random question: Why the influx of Alistar bans? Because he just protects so well and that's good in the heavy tank meta?
If you watched MSI you notice that he is the #1 support if you are incompetent (Been true for almost ever, as evidenced by me not being terrible on him), however he is also pretty good if you are competent because he is Alistar and Q is the best non-ultimate support spell in the game.
You said the same thing about Thresh on multiple occasions in the past.
Also the same could easily be argued for Flay then.
Thresh is the best if your teammates are incompetent.
On June 11 2015 11:44 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Random question: Why the influx of Alistar bans? Because he just protects so well and that's good in the heavy tank meta?
Short answer is "tank meta". Longer answer is
1) Support tanks allow a level of flexibility in top/jungle to be more offensive and still have two tanks on your team. Alistar is one of the tankier supports and so he fits well into this. He is additionally the tankiest if you're good about playing around when you have your ult. Which pro teams tend to be
2) Alistar's kit works well as engage and peel. This gives him the flexibility to be picked with a whombo team, or as peel for a hyper carry, or to mix/match as necessary for the situation. This means that a late alistar pick can go with most anything, an early alistar pick still allows compositional flexibility, and an alistar pick doesn't lose value if the game goes a certain way
3) Righteous Glory has reduced a lot of the need for talisman. Speed was always one of alistar's core weaknesses. It could be shored up with mobi's and talisman for the base speed and active but these don't have direct tank stats on them. And with no ult, Alistar is not all that tanky. So top laners being able to buy the engage/speed item and/or that item being available for him with direct tank stats have increased his overall power.
On June 12 2015 03:07 MagnusWolf wrote: An interesting factor of the lb nerfs is that im pretty sure you can Q people mid-W and it will land before your W does.
Sure but you'll get knocked out of your distortion every time anyway
Is Eve actually good in SoloQ? I've tried to play her a couple games and just can't really figure out how to make her laning phase good (because I know that's her strongest point), I have no issue with flanking/teamfight positioning but my early game is absolute shit. Her first clear is just brutal. Anyone have experience with this champion? It's getting seriously mind-numbing just spamming Rek'sai (and Gragas if he makes it through bans)
On June 12 2015 05:48 las91 wrote: Is Eve actually good in SoloQ? I've tried to play her a couple games and just can't really figure out how to make her laning phase good (because I know that's her strongest point), I have no issue with flanking/teamfight positioning but my early game is absolute shit. Her first clear is just brutal. Anyone have experience with this champion? It's getting seriously mind-numbing just spamming Rek'sai (and Gragas if he makes it through bans)
Well, Eve was always somewhat good in soloqueue because people don't have clue about pink wards, warding camps or oracles but if you really want to win, better to find something else or just camp lanes instead of dying in jungle.
On June 12 2015 07:11 krndandaman wrote: make sure you micro vs the jungle camps correctly, it's actually huge.
Is micro just as important to do as jungle champs that are naturally sort of beefy, such as Vi/J4? I don't jungle much, I should probably micro early if it saves a reasonable amount of HP.
On June 12 2015 10:29 IMoperator wrote: i dont know how alistars ult hasnt been nerfed yet, i've been dived bot lane by an alistar so many times because his ult is stupid as fuck.
Compared to old alisters ult, it -has- been nerfed
On June 12 2015 10:29 IMoperator wrote: i dont know how alistars ult hasnt been nerfed yet, i've been dived bot lane by an alistar so many times because his ult is stupid as fuck.
Compared to old alisters ult, it -has- been nerfed
No, they unnerfed it a while ago. It was 70% at all levels then it was 50/60/70 now it's 70% at all levels again.
On June 12 2015 03:19 Jek wrote: How do you report scripters? Ran into the same Cass bot twice in a row and recorded the second game.
i would send support ticket to rito on the website
Does reporting scripters do anything though? I would imagine that any method they would use to check that guy you reported is also used in automated anti-scripter systems that search globally. Add to that that there are probably a ton of inocent people reported for scripting and it seems horribly inefficient to check single reported players instead of doing it globally.
On June 12 2015 05:48 las91 wrote: Is Eve actually good in SoloQ? I've tried to play her a couple games and just can't really figure out how to make her laning phase good (because I know that's her strongest point), I have no issue with flanking/teamfight positioning but my early game is absolute shit. Her first clear is just brutal. Anyone have experience with this champion? It's getting seriously mind-numbing just spamming Rek'sai (and Gragas if he makes it through bans)
If you micro properly you can do a full clear, gromp -> golems, without getting too low.
my micro is complete trash so I just go gromp -> blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> red, and based with around 100-150 hp., buy stalkers and a few pots, and from there clearing is easy.
Also you don't particularly want to flank anymore iirc, just try and get onto a squishy and kill their face.
On June 12 2015 03:19 Jek wrote: How do you report scripters? Ran into the same Cass bot twice in a row and recorded the second game.
i would send support ticket to rito on the website
Does reporting scripters do anything though? I would imagine that any method they would use to check that guy you reported is also used in automated anti-scripter systems that search globally. Add to that that there are probably a ton of inocent people reported for scripting and it seems horribly inefficient to check single reported players instead of doing it globally.
According to reddit they dropped a big ban wave today.
My guess is they don't want to have a "scripting" option in the in game reporting system for several reasons. Firstly good players often look just like scripting to people who don't know what scripting is. I've had xeraths land every single spell, then i look at them after the game and they've been d1 for two seasons in a row.
You can't judge from the # of reports, because they'll probably be a ton of false positives. You use a tribunal because you need to see gameplay, and even judging from pure gameplay can be hard in the majority of cases where it's not obvious (and they don't even have an official way of rewatching gameplay.)
Besides, acknowledging scripting as a problem in the game client would likely do much more harm then good. League has however many 30 something million players a month. Only a very small minority of those players probably follow reddit/other communities, and it wouldn't surprise me if a good 20 million of those don't even know what scripting is. If they suddenly have all of those people, a lot of whom aren't very invested at all in the game, googling around to see what this "scripting" is, there's a good chance that just doubles the number of scripters compared to currently.
It would be nice if they actually confirmed that reporting people through customer support had the potential to do something though :<
Well yeah but as I said any global/automated system should be way more efficient than checking single reported players. So I would be surprised if reporting does something.
I very much agree with your opinion on making scripting problems public though. Any of those highly upvoted reddit threads with people complaining about scripting or even showing videos of its effects are nothing but advertising for scripting and result in hundreds or thousands of new scripters every time.
I didn't get a recording of it (sadly) upon trying to recreate it, but I (playing Thresh) flayed a LB mid-distortion backwards past my character and it sent her flying off the map towards my team's fountain (which killed her on the way by). It was a hilarious bug that I haven't seen since the knockup that used to knock people so high in the air they were off screen. Spent 20 minutes trying to recreate it with my friend but couldn't, sadly.
I was talking to my friend when the Darius pull bug was around, and though he may be full of shit his explanation was that if two movement displacements interact and the game doesn't know which one takes priority (Riot has to add a special rule for it) it gets confused and just resets the champ to the spawning location of the caster.
On June 12 2015 05:48 las91 wrote: Is Eve actually good in SoloQ? I've tried to play her a couple games and just can't really figure out how to make her laning phase good (because I know that's her strongest point), I have no issue with flanking/teamfight positioning but my early game is absolute shit. Her first clear is just brutal. Anyone have experience with this champion? It's getting seriously mind-numbing just spamming Rek'sai (and Gragas if he makes it through bans)
If you micro properly you can do a full clear, gromp -> golems, without getting too low.
my micro is complete trash so I just go gromp -> blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> red, and based with around 100-150 hp., buy stalkers and a few pots, and from there clearing is easy.
Also you don't particularly want to flank anymore iirc, just try and get onto a squishy and kill their face.
Just played against an Eve, think she just cleared once and spent the rest of the time ganking, got really fed.
And yeah she just jumped on our vayne every time and killed her, it's helpful to have people good play against you too I just hadn't seen much Eve lately in Solo Q (just the random pro games).
Technically the displacement happening last "erases" the others, there's no priority stuff that I'm aware of. To cancel a displacement you just have to make yours happen later, it's a timing thing (hence why in very rare cases it's Nautilus Qing out of a Thresh Flay and not the reverse, there's a very tiny timing in the animation between when you hit the terrain and when you start pulling; Flay after you're going to the terrain cancels the "dash", Flay before cancels the spell altogether).
Flay before doesn't cancel the spell.Same way you can hook out of a blitz hook as naut or trist w/ez/j4 combo etc.This happens because the abilites have a cast time which is uninterruptable but if you land cc AFTER the cast time it cancels it.
Also some displacements change your skillshot direction for some reason so j4 can cast q but since it doesnt go to his flag he doesn't combo.I am not sure what is the exact timing for this but have seen it happen from time to time.Seen ez ult get a changed direction cuz a janna pushed him out of cast animation.
Flay before will make the anchor disappear, basically, if the timing is right (and it's fairly generous).
In another topic, I wish they fixed Braum's W. It's supposed to put you between your target and the nearest enemy champion. Except that doing that, it puts you WAY in front of your ally. So what often happens is that against someone who'll dash/blink near his target, like LB, Katarina or Ahri, your W puts you on the other side of the enemy champion, meaning you can't WE to protect someone. Either you flash-E, or you may as well do nothing.
They could adjust the distance Braum is put at from his target so that he does not end up behind the nearest enemy champion.
No, Braum's thing is in general, I also cast it reactively (Katarina rarely ults after Shunpo if she's decent so you've got time to W as soon as she goes in, cast time is too long to block Q and W can't be blocked but at least you stop the AoE from her ult) and it's always the same. I get that they can't put your model on top of your ally's, but they push him (kinda how nashor pushes you when he spawns) way too far.
I don't get why you talk about Blitzcrank and Nautilus, since I was referencing Flay?
If it makes you feel better it happens consistently with skillshots for every champion atm. Yesterday had a game where a Thresh hook disappeared on my screen and my teammate's ('cause reached max range, so the particle is removed) and I got hooked a fraction of a second later anyway. There were 2 minions right in front of me and another hook straight-up went through them to hit me. My Q (Varus) went right through a minion without dealing damage (dunno about others it was the only target in the path).
They have a refactoring of how skillshots work on the PBE that is supposed to address that.
And I don't understand how you get an example with blocking a Blitz hook, nafta? What I'm talking about is when you're Qing to terrain as Nautilus to escape, and except in a very small window Thresh will prevent the pull, whether he Flays before or after the anchor connects to terrain.
On June 13 2015 00:27 Alaric wrote: If it makes you feel better it happens consistently with skillshots for every champion atm. Yesterday had a game where a Thresh hook disappeared on my screen and my teammate's ('cause reached max range, so the particle is removed) and I got hooked a fraction of a second later anyway. There were 2 minions right in front of me and another hook straight-up went through them to hit me. My Q (Varus) went right through a minion without dealing damage (dunno about others it was the only target in the path).
They have a refactoring of how skillshots work on the PBE that is supposed to address that.
And I don't understand how you get an example with blocking a Blitz hook, nafta? What I'm talking about is when you're Qing to terrain as Nautilus to escape, and except in a very small window Thresh will prevent the pull, whether he Flays before or after the anchor connects to terrain.
This is what happens if you use a cc during the cast time of naut q.If you use it after it will cancel but not during.You can only interrupt it during naut moving towards his target.
If the anchor has hit the target or not is irrelevant.
You can clearly see the anchor has not hit the wall when the blitz hook lands but it overrides it.This is because his ability has a cast time.If you watch it in .25 you will see a cast bar and blitz hook hitting during it.This is why a lot of abilities can dodge other abilities AFTER you get hit.
On June 12 2015 21:48 ticklishmusic wrote: I was talking to my friend when the Darius pull bug was around, and though he may be full of shit his explanation was that if two movement displacements interact and the game doesn't know which one takes priority (Riot has to add a special rule for it) it gets confused and just resets the champ to the spawning location of the caster.
There isn't a special rule. Movement displaces occur, new displaces override old displaces. It's pretty simple.
I suppose it's possible that if the server gets two displaces within the same "tick" that it could have an issue but that isn't possible with LBs dash unless it's the blink and displace combo that has an issue (and usually that just sets the displace start loc at the end of the blink loc)
On June 12 2015 21:30 Zdrastochye wrote: I didn't get a recording of it (sadly) upon trying to recreate it, but I (playing Thresh) flayed a LB mid-distortion backwards past my character and it sent her flying off the map towards my team's fountain (which killed her on the way by). It was a hilarious bug that I haven't seen since the knockup that used to knock people so high in the air they were off screen. Spent 20 minutes trying to recreate it with my friend but couldn't, sadly.
Did you try doing this in bottom lane? Every time I try to a-move from fountain to bottom lane my hero would run against the wall in fountain, maybe there's some weird positional shit going on there
On June 12 2015 05:48 las91 wrote: Is Eve actually good in SoloQ? I've tried to play her a couple games and just can't really figure out how to make her laning phase good (because I know that's her strongest point), I have no issue with flanking/teamfight positioning but my early game is absolute shit. Her first clear is just brutal. Anyone have experience with this champion? It's getting seriously mind-numbing just spamming Rek'sai (and Gragas if he makes it through bans)
If you micro properly you can do a full clear, gromp -> golems, without getting too low.
my micro is complete trash so I just go gromp -> blue -> wolves -> wraiths -> red, and based with around 100-150 hp., buy stalkers and a few pots, and from there clearing is easy.
Also you don't particularly want to flank anymore iirc, just try and get onto a squishy and kill their face.
Just played against an Eve, think she just cleared once and spent the rest of the time ganking, got really fed.
And yeah she just jumped on our vayne every time and killed her, it's helpful to have people good play against you too I just hadn't seen much Eve lately in Solo Q (just the random pro games).
Eve actually clears ridiculously quickly too, so if the lanes aren't gankable for whatever reason, you can clear your jungle on cooldown really easily. Just farm constantly, and whenever you see nearby chances to gank while clearing go kill stuff.
Perma-ganking can work, but can also go really badly :p
On June 12 2015 21:30 Zdrastochye wrote: I didn't get a recording of it (sadly) upon trying to recreate it, but I (playing Thresh) flayed a LB mid-distortion backwards past my character and it sent her flying off the map towards my team's fountain (which killed her on the way by). It was a hilarious bug that I haven't seen since the knockup that used to knock people so high in the air they were off screen. Spent 20 minutes trying to recreate it with my friend but couldn't, sadly.
Did you try doing this in bottom lane? Every time I try to a-move from fountain to bottom lane my hero would run against the wall in fountain, maybe there's some weird positional shit going on there
It was bottom lane, on an LB roam from mid, but she didn't hit the wall at all. I simply flayed her behind me while she was more or less on top of me (but her distortion hadn't "landed" yet) to attempt to put her into tower range and it pushed her up at a very fast speed and when I finally caught up to her with my camera (like 1.5 seconds later) she was flying up towards our fountain and she just got lazored to death. It was hilarious.
What's the best tanky champion for pubstomping sub level 30?
I know sub level 30 is meant to to be for learning to play the game, I just made a new account and want fast wins and I'm tired of being unable to win 4v5. Seriously, someone has been afk on my team in all but two of my last ten games and I'm tired of it; I want to be able to carry hard enough that it won't matter.
I was thinking wukong, fiddlesticks, jax, yi, tryndamere, veigar, or maybe even mundo/rammus (my favorite characters when I used to play a lot but IDK if they are good anymore).
Edit: I'm not good enough to be able to carry with every champion like really good people do. My last hitting and early skirmishing need some work. However, I think that's something I can get good at with every champion.
tbh i think if they gave her ult passive with 5/10/15 cdr or some mr per level, better hp i think she would be fine, atm its really hard to get cdr and tankiness + all the stats she needs, i dont have idea why they try to increase her sustain in jungle she doesnt need that Oo
I mean, it's nice they're doing something about the Magus enchant sucking balls but should they all go down the line of "This enchant will be a shitty version of X."?
On June 13 2015 06:48 kongoline wrote: tbh i think if they gave her ult passive with 5/10/15 cdr or some mr per level, better hp i think she would be fine, atm its really hard to get cdr and tankiness + all the stats she needs, i dont have idea why they try to increase her sustain in jungle she doesnt need that Oo
Please no Elise buffs Rito, will not be good for my arachnophobia.
On June 13 2015 06:42 Chocolate wrote: What's the best tanky champion for pubstomping sub level 30?
I know sub level 30 is meant to to be for learning to play the game, I just made a new account and want fast wins and I'm tired of being unable to win 4v5. Seriously, someone has been afk on my team in all but two of my last ten games and I'm tired of it; I want to be able to carry hard enough that it won't matter.
I was thinking wukong, fiddlesticks, jax, yi, tryndamere, veigar, or maybe even mundo/rammus (my favorite characters when I used to play a lot but IDK if they are good anymore).
Edit: I'm not good enough to be able to carry with every champion like really good people do. My last hitting and early skirmishing need some work. However, I think that's something I can get good at with every champion.
Dont play a tanky champion if you want to pubstomp sub 30s. Play a snowbally or hard carry champion, you can ignore their drawbacks since people are not good enough to abuse them at that level anyway.
Akali, Katarina, Yi, Tryndamere, Draven, Fizz, Mordekaiser and such can carry low level games 1v5 easily once they get going.
Be happy about these afk, this means you won't end up too fast in smurf island.
Elise's issue isn't the tankiness, but rather that her base damage fall off and her utility is lacking (Gragas is innately tankier, with arguably better all-around mobility (since he never needs a target and has a lower cd, although he can't "skip" a frontline), and deals %total HP, not current/missing, for example), as you can itemise for tankiness anyway.
At this point I'd rather they find a way to buff her early/midgame without making full AP obnoxious 100-0 when snowballing off of a couple kills, or bringing back "oh you're melee? fuck you" Elise in the offlane anyway, which this seems to be doing as it basically makes her a better skirmisher/duelist... eg. when she can afford to stay in the fray and fight, so early on.
On June 13 2015 07:07 Alaric wrote: Be happy about these afk, this means you won't end up too fast in smurf island.
Elise's issue isn't the tankiness, but rather that her base damage fall off and her utility is lacking (Gragas is innately tankier, with arguably better all-around mobility (since he never needs a target and has a lower cd, although he can't "skip" a frontline), and deals %total HP, not current/missing, for example), as you can itemise for tankiness anyway.
At this point I'd rather they find a way to buff her early/midgame without making full AP obnoxious 100-0 when snowballing off of a couple kills, or bringing back "oh you're melee? fuck you" Elise in the offlane anyway, which this seems to be doing as it basically makes her a better skirmisher/duelist... eg. when she can afford to stay in the fray and fight, so early on.
if u build things like ralai, abyssal,haunting guise she still does sick dmg but like somebody earlier wrote you are basically forced to go fh/locket because her base stats are trash and she needs cdr
That's the thing: you do more damage early on because resistances are lower, lifesteal often absent, etc. Later on you have the AP to increase the %damage, but overall you don't necessarily do more because the base damage (especially on Q and her passive) doesn't grow and people still get more MR, lifesteal, etc. So early-midgame your combo does 40% of their HP or something but spiderlings+autoattacks (and the bonus on-hit) makes the remaining fast to burn. Later you do 55% with some AP/pen but the rest of your damage is way too low to blow whatever HP is left in a timely manner.
Also people group and stuff like shields, aegis' aura, etc. play a part. In 2v2s you can combo someone down to 40% health, skirmish till your cooldowns are back up and finish him off. In full-blown teamfights you won't put someone so low, and even if you do there are still 4 others to take care of, and you can't stay and fight them waiting for your cooldowns.
Making Elise tankier won't make her lategame better, so I'd be fine with buffing (carefully) her early-mid. League needs more champions strong enough early to warrant playing them even when Azir, Jinx, and other shit is available, anyway.
On June 13 2015 07:13 krndandaman wrote: just grind 3v3
even with afk's 2v3 is infinitely easier and that map snowballs harder than summoner's rift
the exp gain is also much better for the amount of time you play ( though keep in mind the IP gain is lower ) the players there are usually much worse too.
You are so right
just went 18-1 with yi on TT, the other players were quite bad
[New Item] Enchantment: Runeglaive Builds out of [Sheen + Jungle Item + 200g] Stats: 40 AP 200 Mana +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, the next basic attack is converted into magic damage and deals 75% Base Attack Damage (+30% of Ability Power) bonus magic damage on hit in an AoE around the target (1.5 second cooldown). When attacking a monster, this also restores 6% of your missing Mana."
Finally! This is such a good change for AP junglers, particularly Diana. Can you imagine how fast Malzahar will be able to clear now that he'll have an AOE sheen proc?
[New Item] Enchantment: Runeglaive Builds out of [Sheen + Jungle Item + 200g] Stats: 40 AP 200 Mana +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, the next basic attack is converted into magic damage and deals 75% Base Attack Damage (+30% of Ability Power) bonus magic damage on hit in an AoE around the target (1.5 second cooldown). When attacking a monster, this also restores 6% of your missing Mana."
Finally! This is such a good change for AP junglers, particularly Diana. Can you imagine how fast Malzahar will be able to clear now that he'll have an AOE sheen proc?
is this removing the other AP thing that they already have?
[New Item] Enchantment: Runeglaive Builds out of [Sheen + Jungle Item + 200g] Stats: 40 AP 200 Mana +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, the next basic attack is converted into magic damage and deals 75% Base Attack Damage (+30% of Ability Power) bonus magic damage on hit in an AoE around the target (1.5 second cooldown). When attacking a monster, this also restores 6% of your missing Mana."
Finally! This is such a good change for AP junglers, particularly Diana. Can you imagine how fast Malzahar will be able to clear now that he'll have an AOE sheen proc?
is this removing the other AP thing that they already have?
On June 13 2015 04:30 Alaric wrote: Screw 'em, I don't want to create a facebook account.
I don't qualify anyways, I have less than 10 champions left unlocked.
(Ekko, Kalista, Azir, Volibear, Talon)
qualify for what?
One of the milestones for the pool party event is that you get a free mystery champion gift to yourself - if you use the new facebook connect friend finder thingy.
On June 13 2015 04:30 Alaric wrote: Screw 'em, I don't want to create a facebook account.
I don't qualify anyways, I have less than 10 champions left unlocked.
(Ekko, Kalista, Azir, Volibear, Talon)
qualify for what?
One of the milestones for the pool party event is that you get a free mystery champion gift to yourself - if you use the new facebook connect friend finder thingy.
ah, i should've waited out to buy ekko then and saved the ip to get him for free.
On June 13 2015 07:31 Alaric wrote: That's the thing: you do more damage early on because resistances are lower, lifesteal often absent, etc. Later on you have the AP to increase the %damage, but overall you don't necessarily do more because the base damage (especially on Q and her passive) doesn't grow and people still get more MR, lifesteal, etc. So early-midgame your combo does 40% of their HP or something but spiderlings+autoattacks (and the bonus on-hit) makes the remaining fast to burn. Later you do 55% with some AP/pen but the rest of your damage is way too low to blow whatever HP is left in a timely manner.
Also people group and stuff like shields, aegis' aura, etc. play a part. In 2v2s you can combo someone down to 40% health, skirmish till your cooldowns are back up and finish him off. In full-blown teamfights you won't put someone so low, and even if you do there are still 4 others to take care of, and you can't stay and fight them waiting for your cooldowns.
Making Elise tankier won't make her lategame better, so I'd be fine with buffing (carefully) her early-mid. League needs more champions strong enough early to warrant playing them even when Azir, Jinx, and other shit is available, anyway.
Elise's kit still has too much frontloaded burst as part of its design, plus the towerdive powtential with E(Spider) is hard to balance. . For a while they turned her into a skillshot stun bot, but that was a very meta-dependent style. Her power needs to be removed from Q, and put in W, and maybe into passive spiderlings.
I'm trying to cut through the fluff of that article. But basically they're updating the UI, graphics engine, and letting people make custom games?
Yeah, Dota 2's UI is a bit clunky, and the graphics look like they were built to run on a ps2, but it's still a decent MOBA.
As for the PBE changes to Magus, it's basically meant to try and let AP junglers (read: Diana, Elise, Ekko, Fizz, Nidalee) build a mini Lich Bane out of the jungle. It'll probably only help Diana, Fizz, and Ekko the most though, not that Nidalee wouldn't benefit from it.
But again, the issues with AP junglers is not what they build in the jungle, it's getting them items once they get out of it so they aren't completely useless (compared to Warrior's where AD junglers usually have something in their kit to let them be useful outside of the jungle). And the moment Riot buffs these AP junglers they just end up back in lane somewhere because if they're even remotely playable from the jungle, then getting them lane gold, exp, and kills means they'll be op op.
I stiill really hate the DotA observer UI. This seems so redundant, I don't like how it's always from one hero pov instead of dropping that space for a scoreboard or just nothing either.
On June 13 2015 09:49 ahswtini wrote: league players rly think their ui and client is better than dota's???
Are you serious?
League's UI and client is shit tier. It was shit back in 2010 and it's still shit now. Hell, Riot themselves have said it's shit and know it's shit, they just aren't that concerned with getting a new, better UI and client up and running, as more pressing concerns (server issues, bug fixes, etc.) are more important.
Isn't League's UI and client running off fucking Silverlight or something like that?
On June 13 2015 09:49 ahswtini wrote: league players rly think their ui and client is better than dota's???
Are you serious?
League's UI and client is shit tier. It was shit back in 2010 and it's still shit now. Hell, Riot themselves have said it's shit and know it's shit, they just aren't that concerned with getting a new, better UI and client up and running, as more pressing concerns (server issues, bug fixes, etc.) are more important.
Isn't League's UI and client running off fucking Silverlight or something like that?
On June 13 2015 09:49 ahswtini wrote: league players rly think their ui and client is better than dota's???
Are you serious?
League's UI and client is shit tier. It was shit back in 2010 and it's still shit now. Hell, Riot themselves have said it's shit and know it's shit, they just aren't that concerned with getting a new, better UI and client up and running, as more pressing concerns (server issues, bug fixes, etc.) are more important.
Isn't League's UI and client running off fucking Silverlight or something like that?
Rebuilding client should have been priority since game became big, it's not a newsflash that Riot didn't expect game to become that big in 2009 so they just built client on Adobe Air.
I seriously can play with bunch of bugs, if I just stop freezing, bugsplatting, failing to reconnect and so on.
So I was watching some Lemonation VoDs. He basically says that on any ranged support you HAVE to run 5-0-25 now with the new utility masteries. It's waaaaay too much good stuff in there to run anything else.
I personally took the points out of max mana in tier 1 and put those 4 points into movespeed and trinket range. Idk 75 mana, with the regen mastery, really doesn't seem nearly as good as 1.5% ms...
Have been running it all day on a variety of supports (Zyra, Sona, Janna, Soraka) and it doesn't feel that bad not having the dmg reduction from 9 defense.
[New Item] Enchantment: Runeglaive Builds out of [Sheen + Jungle Item + 200g] Stats: 40 AP 200 Mana +10% Cooldown Reduction UNIQUE Passive - Spellblade: After using an ability, the next basic attack is converted into magic damage and deals 75% Base Attack Damage (+30% of Ability Power) bonus magic damage on hit in an AoE around the target (1.5 second cooldown). When attacking a monster, this also restores 6% of your missing Mana."
Finally! This is such a good change for AP junglers, particularly Diana. Can you imagine how fast Malzahar will be able to clear now that he'll have an AOE sheen proc?
damnit, i had finally come to peace with the fact that i should still be building Cinderhulk instead of Magus on jungle Fizz even when i get some early kills. although i guess a super cheap and early AOE Lich Bane proc will probably be OP enough to make up for all the games i throw trying to build full AP out of the jungle.
I'm trying to cut through the fluff of that article. But basically they're updating the UI, graphics engine, and letting people make custom games?
Yeah, Dota 2's UI is a bit clunky, and the graphics look like they were built to run on a ps2, but it's still a decent MOBA.
As for the PBE changes to Magus, it's basically meant to try and let AP junglers (read: Diana, Elise, Ekko, Fizz, Nidalee) build a mini Lich Bane out of the jungle. It'll probably only help Diana, Fizz, and Ekko the most though, not that Nidalee wouldn't benefit from it.
But again, the issues with AP junglers is not what they build in the jungle, it's getting them items once they get out of it so they aren't completely useless (compared to Warrior's where AD junglers usually have something in their kit to let them be useful outside of the jungle). And the moment Riot buffs these AP junglers they just end up back in lane somewhere because if they're even remotely playable from the jungle, then getting them lane gold, exp, and kills means they'll be op op.
So would that mean LoL has ps1 graphics?
Runeglaive helps AP junglers in a lot of ways. The biggest thing that fucked AP junglers was the lack of mana regen. You get 20% cdr after building your rather expensive jungle item. Then you were forced to build a mana regen item. Imo, these are the main problems with AP junglers,
1. Ineffective pre-6 ganks and little map pressure. 2. Usually slow first clear or bad sustain. 3. No mana regen. 4. Too gold reliant.
The first two you can't really change. But with the new AP jungle item you get a bigger mana pool and more mana regen. So you don't have to buy a mana regen item like tear or catalyst. Which allows you to be on the map more and gank more frequently. Because you have more mana regen and an AOE sheen proc on jungle camps. You won't have to sacrifice as much to farm camps and give up map pressure. You'll stay healthier and have more mana to stay out of the map longer along with having more gold.
On June 13 2015 09:49 ahswtini wrote: league players rly think their ui and client is better than dota's???
Are you serious?
League's UI and client is shit tier. It was shit back in 2010 and it's still shit now. Hell, Riot themselves have said it's shit and know it's shit, they just aren't that concerned with getting a new, better UI and client up and running, as more pressing concerns (server issues, bug fixes, etc.) are more important.
Isn't League's UI and client running off fucking Silverlight or something like that?
I'm trying to cut through the fluff of that article. But basically they're updating the UI, graphics engine, and letting people make custom games?
Yeah, Dota 2's UI is a bit clunky, and the graphics look like they were built to run on a ps2, but it's still a decent MOBA.
As for the PBE changes to Magus, it's basically meant to try and let AP junglers (read: Diana, Elise, Ekko, Fizz, Nidalee) build a mini Lich Bane out of the jungle. It'll probably only help Diana, Fizz, and Ekko the most though, not that Nidalee wouldn't benefit from it.
But again, the issues with AP junglers is not what they build in the jungle, it's getting them items once they get out of it so they aren't completely useless (compared to Warrior's where AD junglers usually have something in their kit to let them be useful outside of the jungle). And the moment Riot buffs these AP junglers they just end up back in lane somewhere because if they're even remotely playable from the jungle, then getting them lane gold, exp, and kills means they'll be op op.
There's no such thing as a "warrior" jungler anymore. Everybody in the current meta is a Cinderhulk jungler unless they get stupid ahead.
On June 13 2015 09:49 ahswtini wrote: league players rly think their ui and client is better than dota's???
Are you serious?
League's UI and client is shit tier. It was shit back in 2010 and it's still shit now. Hell, Riot themselves have said it's shit and know it's shit, they just aren't that concerned with getting a new, better UI and client up and running, as more pressing concerns (server issues, bug fixes, etc.) are more important.
Isn't League's UI and client running off fucking Silverlight or something like that?
Did you miss the part earlier this week or late last week when Riot revealed their new UI?
On June 13 2015 07:31 Alaric wrote: That's the thing: you do more damage early on because resistances are lower, lifesteal often absent, etc. Later on you have the AP to increase the %damage, but overall you don't necessarily do more because the base damage (especially on Q and her passive) doesn't grow and people still get more MR, lifesteal, etc. So early-midgame your combo does 40% of their HP or something but spiderlings+autoattacks (and the bonus on-hit) makes the remaining fast to burn. Later you do 55% with some AP/pen but the rest of your damage is way too low to blow whatever HP is left in a timely manner.
Also people group and stuff like shields, aegis' aura, etc. play a part. In 2v2s you can combo someone down to 40% health, skirmish till your cooldowns are back up and finish him off. In full-blown teamfights you won't put someone so low, and even if you do there are still 4 others to take care of, and you can't stay and fight them waiting for your cooldowns.
Making Elise tankier won't make her lategame better, so I'd be fine with buffing (carefully) her early-mid. League needs more champions strong enough early to warrant playing them even when Azir, Jinx, and other shit is available, anyway.
Elise's kit still has too much frontloaded burst as part of its design, plus the towerdive powtential with E(Spider) is hard to balance. . For a while they turned her into a skillshot stun bot, but that was a very meta-dependent style. Her power needs to be removed from Q, and put in W, and maybe into passive spiderlings.
And they are. With the changes to her E, spiderlings will get a 40-100% boost to their bonuses after she drops. Those bonuses that will be modified at 10% AP on hit, 5-25% AS passively from W rank, and 60-140% AS from W active. At level 18 the boost will be an extra 0% AP and 125% AS. I believe I remember somebody saying that Elise has trouble taking down a target after her burst, this should help with that.
In other news: Was checking out support stats on champion.gg. Turns out - with experience - Zyra and Taric are the most winningest supports. Zyra breaking 56% and Taric breaking 57%. In plat+.
Of course in the hands of mains. Sorakas winrate is disgustingly high tho...
On June 13 2015 12:17 JazzVortical wrote: The new jungler item doesn't look all that useful on Fiddlesticks though, and he's been the only constant AP from the jungle.
Doesn't Fiddle have awful mana conservation in the jungle?
On June 13 2015 12:46 Sufficiency wrote: Wonderful.
I am in a game which I can't connect to. But my other account can join games fine.
I've had this exact thing happen to me. I can only assume it's some sort of drop hack. I've restarted the client, my computer, and gone on smurf accounts. Send in a support ticket about it I reckon.
On June 13 2015 12:46 Sufficiency wrote: Wonderful.
I am in a game which I can't connect to. But my other account can join games fine.
I've had this exact thing happen to me. I can only assume it's some sort of drop hack. I've restarted the client, my computer, and gone on smurf accounts. Send in a support ticket about it I reckon.
On June 13 2015 10:44 Sonnington wrote: these are the main problems with AP junglers,
1. Ineffective pre-6 ganks and little map pressure. 2. Usually slow first clear or bad sustain. 3. No mana regen. 4. Too gold reliant.
I kind of disagree. 2 is certainly true, but 1 is basically because of 2 and 3. If singed, ahri, maokai, zyra, syndra, etc could clear without getting low and having no mana they would have perfectly fine ganking and map pressure. And some of them are much more gold reliant than others (singed, maokai can be good low-econ). Its really just Riot hasnt designed a jungle that can support more than 1 playstyle since S3 started.
I played two Ekko games, and I have to say this champion is so counterintuitive not just for my opponents, but for me as well. I think if I spend more time I'll get better at him; that being said, seeing all the competitive usage of him already, I think he is just going to get nerfed even more - I don't really see the point of playing him in solo Q.
One thing I don't quite understand is why people keep building so much damage on him. As far as I can tell, he got a lot of damage already - thus tankiness is more important.
On June 13 2015 12:17 JazzVortical wrote: The new jungler item doesn't look all that useful on Fiddlesticks though, and he's been the only constant AP from the jungle.
Doesn't Fiddle have awful mana conservation in the jungle?
Yeah somewhat, but he rarely auto attacks, especially when Drain has essentially no cooldown.
On June 13 2015 09:49 ahswtini wrote: league players rly think their ui and client is better than dota's???
Are you serious?
League's UI and client is shit tier. It was shit back in 2010 and it's still shit now. Hell, Riot themselves have said it's shit and know it's shit, they just aren't that concerned with getting a new, better UI and client up and running, as more pressing concerns (server issues, bug fixes, etc.) are more important.
Isn't League's UI and client running off fucking Silverlight or something like that?
adobe air.
Yeah, exactly. It's basically garbage too.
I remember I had a login bug where I had to login twice because the first time I logged in I got a connection failed error. Turns out the solution was to update IE lol
On June 13 2015 14:01 Sufficiency wrote: I played two Ekko games, and I have to say this champion is so counterintuitive not just for my opponents, but for me as well. I think if I spend more time I'll get better at him; that being said, seeing all the competitive usage of him already, I think he is just going to get nerfed even more - I don't really see the point of playing him in solo Q.
One thing I don't quite understand is why people keep building so much damage on him. As far as I can tell, he got a lot of damage already - thus tankiness is more important.
cause his scalings are ridiculous
q 80% w 80% e 20% r 130% on damage, 3.33% per 100ap on heal
Yes, but the problem is his method of delivery: almost everything is melee range and he commits pretty hard. This is especially problematic with his R.
In the best case scenario, Ekko retreats, W, then RQE and get a pentakill. In this case I can definitely see him maximize damage. My issue with this school of thinking is that he can rarely get something this good off.
On June 13 2015 14:01 Sufficiency wrote: I played two Ekko games, and I have to say this champion is so counterintuitive not just for my opponents, but for me as well. I think if I spend more time I'll get better at him; that being said, seeing all the competitive usage of him already, I think he is just going to get nerfed even more - I don't really see the point of playing him in solo Q.
One thing I don't quite understand is why people keep building so much damage on him. As far as I can tell, he got a lot of damage already - thus tankiness is more important.
You have accidentally pointed out why he is OP, because usually on an Ekko-like champion you would go 1-2 offensive items into tank (Jax/Irelia) but because of his shield and invulnerability frames that is not necessary.
Haven't seen an Ekko warranting a ban yet, and I let the "heavy duty" to the other team if possible (Gragas, Sej, Ryze, but I generally have to ban Ryze myself). Leftover bans go to Rengar (didn't, but after getting one 4 times in 5-6 games and being remembered how he kills a squishy with 2 items even in the lategame if you're not playing support and sitting on top of them with exhaust), Vladimir (because cancerous and I can't lane against him if he's not utter trash) and Thresh (because too much of a nuisance for too many of my picks).
Ekko doesn't go in then stay there manfighting 1v5, you're doing it wrong if you feel like you need the tankiness. Just use Q and autos to trigger your passive, and if you can kill someone auto a bit, if you're being targeted walk/E away then go back in once Q or W is available again. You stay in and auto people to death once your main threats are either sub-30% so you'll kill them, or already dead.
Personally ban ekko because if I don't, and the other team picks him, my team will tilt, and it's a free loss. Then just junglers and ryze if the other team doesn't ban him.
ekko, ryze, kalista don't really care about the junglers bans, they're not op enough to make a diference from other jungle picks in soloqueue imo. kalista and ryze straight up hard counter half the champion roster, and ekko because otherwise ppl cry about why is he not banned
Ryze, Kalista and Shaco. If enemy bans some of them I just ask my team for what they want for the last slot(s). To hell with the meta, just ban champions you hate playing with or against.
Shaco is the ultimate "if on your team he sucks, on the enemy team he is a god" champion.
Is it reasonably in the realm of the possible that you switched from being a Fizz picker to a Ryze picker, Neo? Not that it changes so much in the end. Still a blue-coloured champion played off lane in competitive and drawing Cheep's ire.
So I played a few games of Leblanc, W just feels really unsatisfying to use and it's pretty easy to get it interrupted now.
I would prefer they revert speed and just nerf her damage/cd... it's not like people couldn't dodge/interrupt it before anyway but now it's so slow and it becomes easy to lose your damage from it.
On June 14 2015 11:41 Ansibled wrote: So I played a few games of Leblanc, W just feels really unsatisfying to use and it's pretty easy to get it interrupted now.
I would prefer they revert speed and just nerf her damage/cd... it's not like people couldn't dodge/interrupt it before anyway but now it's so slow and it becomes easy to lose your damage from it.
On June 14 2015 11:41 Ansibled wrote: So I played a few games of Leblanc, W just feels really unsatisfying to use and it's pretty easy to get it interrupted now.
I would prefer they revert speed and just nerf her damage/cd... it's not like people couldn't dodge/interrupt it before anyway but now it's so slow and it becomes easy to lose your damage from it.
it's a .087 second difference
While it may seem small, considering human reaction time threshold, it makes a huge difference.
On June 14 2015 11:41 Ansibled wrote: So I played a few games of Leblanc, W just feels really unsatisfying to use and it's pretty easy to get it interrupted now.
I would prefer they revert speed and just nerf her damage/cd... it's not like people couldn't dodge/interrupt it before anyway but now it's so slow and it becomes easy to lose your damage from it.
it's a .087 second difference
Yea, us East coasters have been playing nerfed Leblanc all along!
On June 14 2015 11:41 Ansibled wrote: So I played a few games of Leblanc, W just feels really unsatisfying to use and it's pretty easy to get it interrupted now.
I would prefer they revert speed and just nerf her damage/cd... it's not like people couldn't dodge/interrupt it before anyway but now it's so slow and it becomes easy to lose your damage from it.
it's a .087 second difference
While it may seem small, considering human reaction time threshold, it makes a huge difference.
taking ping into account i don't think it's significant at all. it might feel different for the person playing it but for the people playing against her it wouldn't be noticeable
I've been running Magus Eve jungle and its really not that bad, tons of AP and CDR from a single item and once you get Fheart its 40% cdr for massive downtime on your ult
On June 14 2015 11:41 Ansibled wrote: So I played a few games of Leblanc, W just feels really unsatisfying to use and it's pretty easy to get it interrupted now.
I would prefer they revert speed and just nerf her damage/cd... it's not like people couldn't dodge/interrupt it before anyway but now it's so slow and it becomes easy to lose your damage from it.
it's a .087 second difference
While it may seem small, considering human reaction time threshold, it makes a huge difference.
taking ping into account i don't think it's significant at all. it might feel different for the person playing it but for the people playing against her it wouldn't be noticeable
Median human reaction time is about .2 seconds for a non-mechanical action when you're prepared for it
So if you change something from .348 to .435 seconds that will have a very significant effect on the ability of people to react to an ability use.
On June 14 2015 11:41 Ansibled wrote: So I played a few games of Leblanc, W just feels really unsatisfying to use and it's pretty easy to get it interrupted now.
I would prefer they revert speed and just nerf her damage/cd... it's not like people couldn't dodge/interrupt it before anyway but now it's so slow and it becomes easy to lose your damage from it.
it's a .087 second difference
While it may seem small, considering human reaction time threshold, it makes a huge difference.
taking ping into account i don't think it's significant at all. it might feel different for the person playing it but for the people playing against her it wouldn't be noticeable
Well I play with sub 20 ping most of the time. So.....
On June 14 2015 11:41 Ansibled wrote: So I played a few games of Leblanc, W just feels really unsatisfying to use and it's pretty easy to get it interrupted now.
I would prefer they revert speed and just nerf her damage/cd... it's not like people couldn't dodge/interrupt it before anyway but now it's so slow and it becomes easy to lose your damage from it.
it's a .087 second difference
While it may seem small, considering human reaction time threshold, it makes a huge difference.
taking ping into account i don't think it's significant at all. it might feel different for the person playing it but for the people playing against her it wouldn't be noticeable
Median human reaction time is about .2 seconds for a non-mechanical action when you're prepared for it
So if you change something from .348 to .435 seconds that will have a very significant effect on the ability of people to react to an ability use.
i don't understand. how does a person taking .2 seconds to react to something help them react after it was changed by .087? shouldn't they not be able to react because it is less then .2?
On June 14 2015 11:41 Ansibled wrote: So I played a few games of Leblanc, W just feels really unsatisfying to use and it's pretty easy to get it interrupted now.
I would prefer they revert speed and just nerf her damage/cd... it's not like people couldn't dodge/interrupt it before anyway but now it's so slow and it becomes easy to lose your damage from it.
it's a .087 second difference
While it may seem small, considering human reaction time threshold, it makes a huge difference.
taking ping into account i don't think it's significant at all. it might feel different for the person playing it but for the people playing against her it wouldn't be noticeable
Median human reaction time is about .2 seconds for a non-mechanical action when you're prepared for it
So if you change something from .348 to .435 seconds that will have a very significant effect on the ability of people to react to an ability use.
i don't understand. how does a person taking .2 seconds to react to something help them react after it was changed by .087? shouldn't they not be able to react because it is less then .2?
Threshold is very different mechanic than percent change. Think of threshold as prerequisites to do an action for a person. The leblanc w changes is significant enough that it matches with people's threshold to react, before it was below most people's reaction time.
Shyvana with those W buffs hits like an absolute truck. Not a huge buff, but definitely noticeable.
I been running her in the jungle w/ exhaust should I need to gank, and man you end up as farmed as solo laners. With Challenging smite and nearly full tank (Maybe add a Hexdrinker / Lifesteal item depending on game) you can be near the top of the damage charts at the end of the game.
So so tanky, you press R then Smite+Exhuast their AD while you have like 5k HP w/ 300 armor and 200 MR.
Just... you know dont expect your laners to be too impressed when you can't gank that well. That being said, I find people play a little dumber when you jungle Shy than when you jungle other jungles, die to ganks they normally wouldnt be in danger of.
On June 14 2015 14:45 iCanada wrote: Shyvana with those W buffs hits like an absolute truck. Not a huge buff, but definitely noticeable.
I been running her in the jungle w/ exhaust should I need to gank, and man you end up as farmed as solo laners. With Challenging smite and nearly full tank (Maybe add a Hexdrinker / Lifesteal item depending on game) you can be near the top of the damage charts at the end of the game.
So so tanky, you press R then Smite+Exhuast their AD while you have like 5k HP w/ 300 armor and 200 MR.
Just... you know dont expect your laners to be too impressed when you can't gank that well. That being said, I find people play a little dumber when you jungle Shy than when you jungle other jungles, die to ganks they normally wouldnt be in danger of.
been doing the same thing but with chilling smite
at 30 minutes you come out with 70+ devourer stacks and full build then just win
i love how after first back i can ward enemy jungle and just live there stealing all the camps, if they pick "weakish" jungler like khazix theres nothing he can do (i play with cinderhulk and chilling smite tho)
In-elegant perhaps, but who needs elegance when you can turn into a dragon and kill everything.
/shrug
Chilling smite might actually be stronger mid game, not sure. I like Challenging smite though because you can get pretty cheeky and just straight up kill solo lanes that think they have you dead.
I play a lot of Shy, even before this patch. Originally Dev user but I've switched over to Cinderhulk in the past couple weeks because tankiness is just silly in 5s. Stalkers early on because you really need the slow utility over more damage early on but you swap to Skirmishers later (once you have 4th item or later). Too many times pre-6 or when ulti is down that people Flash or jump away and Burnout is down, a free kill just runs away to safety. I think I used to run Smite/Exhaust last season but I went back to Flash because what's better than have one gap closer? Two. You pretty much build full on tank with one offensive item. I think I prefer Bork the most on her.
I just picked her up again after almost a year of not touching her yesterday. Spamming team builder just to get her down again. So I have actually a little control over what teams I play with - I take lobbies with a tanky jungle and strong laning phase champs OR competetive picks in the solo lanes.
8-2 so far and it is retarded how EASY those games are. One loss was some weird shit where we were HARD outclassed everywhere and I played really bad as well.
I just tell my ADC before every game to just chill out, farm and auto them when they overextend. To not greed on them when they get low and just force them b. As long as my ADC doesn't die it doesn't matter what happens, I just win bot lane on my own.
That's because your first games of teambuilder with a "new" role+position combo for a champion intentionally lower your Elo to account for "learning". Her base damage is still retarded because plants though.
ive been watching MaRin's stream for like 1.5 months. Everyone should check his stream for once.
He has the most smoothest style i have ever seen. I mean his playstyle cant be explained by words, just watch it and you'll see. Also Bard+Cassio combo on KR server is godlike.
On June 14 2015 22:08 Mensol wrote: ive been watching MaRin's stream for like 1.5 months. Everyone should check his stream for once.
He has the most smoothest style i have ever seen. I mean his playstyle cant be explained by words, just watch it and you'll see. Also Bard+Cassio combo on KR server is godlike.
Totally agree, and in the same style of eye-opening experience, every ad should check out Samsung Fury when he's online. The guy is on another level in soloQ, his play is just perfect laning and perfect teamfighting
As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
a lot of it has to do with how your account looks and why the top of the ladder is going to be mostly one role ponies or one trick ponies.
If you prove and show you are a monster on one role or one champ and your games reflect that then you can get your role/champ easily if you are proactive in select. if you are like kinda good at a role or champ but you constantly fill so when people look you up your champ list is a semi-clusterfuck then its a lot more difficult to get your desired role as people just figure, meh he can fill ill just play my role.
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
Fuck the meta and start playing top laners on the other roles, this is what works for me, gives me 50% win rate on my off lane games
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
a lot of it has to do with how your account looks and why the top of the ladder is going to be mostly one role ponies or one trick ponies.
If you prove and show you are a monster on one role or one champ and your games reflect that then you can get your role/champ easily if you are proactive in select. if you are like kinda good at a role or champ but you constantly fill so when people look you up your champ list is a semi-clusterfuck then its a lot more difficult to get your desired role as people just figure, meh he can fill ill just play my role.
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
a lot of it has to do with how your account looks and why the top of the ladder is going to be mostly one role ponies or one trick ponies.
If you prove and show you are a monster on one role or one champ and your games reflect that then you can get your role/champ easily if you are proactive in select. if you are like kinda good at a role or champ but you constantly fill so when people look you up your champ list is a semi-clusterfuck then its a lot more difficult to get your desired role as people just figure, meh he can fill ill just play my role.
Except most people in soloq neither care about what other players want nor actually look stuff up, so unless you're kinda well known good luck with getting your role.
On June 15 2015 03:24 JimmiC wrote: Just got dc hacked while we were taking the last tower of the enxus as 5v1. Rito needs to figure something out on this cause if it's happening in gold there is some issues.
What does it being in gold having anything to do with it?
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
Even one trick ponies have a champ they can fall-back to if theirs is banned/picked. Learn one champ per role or learn a champ that can play all roles (lulu, nidalee, gragas, kayle...). If you really can't play a specific role then make it clear in champ select. Playing 3 roles is the minimum if you want a steady climb, imo.
Otherwise your only chance is to try to convince your team in champ select but that's pretty lame imo (linking your lolking, saying you have x kda as riven top blablabla)
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
Even one trick ponies have a champ they can fall-back to if it's banned/picked. Learn one champ per role or learn a champ that can play all roles (lulu, nidalee, gragas, kayle...). If you really can't play a specific role then make it clear in champ select. Playing 3 roles is the minimum if you want a steady climb, imo. Otherwise your only chance is to try to convince your team in champ select but that's pretty lame imo (linking your lolking, saying you have x kda as riven top blablabla)
I'm a pretty big fan of this strat, especially if one of the roles is support.
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
a lot of it has to do with how your account looks and why the top of the ladder is going to be mostly one role ponies or one trick ponies.
If you prove and show you are a monster on one role or one champ and your games reflect that then you can get your role/champ easily if you are proactive in select. if you are like kinda good at a role or champ but you constantly fill so when people look you up your champ list is a semi-clusterfuck then its a lot more difficult to get your desired role as people just figure, meh he can fill ill just play my role.
Except most people in soloq neither care about what other players want nor actually look stuff up, so unless you're kinda well known good luck with getting your role.
i just linked it in the chat and got what i wanted 95% of the time. occasionally i would have to play fiora support or something with the rare team of full on trolls but even then i could carry from that usually
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
a lot of it has to do with how your account looks and why the top of the ladder is going to be mostly one role ponies or one trick ponies.
If you prove and show you are a monster on one role or one champ and your games reflect that then you can get your role/champ easily if you are proactive in select. if you are like kinda good at a role or champ but you constantly fill so when people look you up your champ list is a semi-clusterfuck then its a lot more difficult to get your desired role as people just figure, meh he can fill ill just play my role.
Except most people in soloq neither care about what other players want nor actually look stuff up, so unless you're kinda well known good luck with getting your role.
i just linked it in the chat and got what i wanted 95% of the time. occasionally i would have to play fiora support or something with the rare team of full on trolls but even then i could carry from that usually
Pretty sure I just versed someone who was drophacking, we had taken two enemy inhibs and were up around 5-6k, suddenly our Jinx keeps standing still when walking around the map like she had disconnected, but we didn't get any notifications about her disconnecting. I haven't encountered this before AFAIK on Oce so not 100% but it was awful suss that we get a big lead then this guy keeps standing still (He said nothing in chat all game and his match history doesn't indicate any trolling at all).
On June 15 2015 12:56 schmutttt wrote: Pretty sure I just versed someone who was drophacking, we had taken two enemy inhibs and were up around 5-6k, suddenly our Jinx keeps standing still when walking around the map like she had disconnected, but we didn't get any notifications about her disconnecting. I haven't encountered this before AFAIK on Oce so not 100% but it was awful suss that we get a big lead then this guy keeps standing still (He said nothing in chat all game and his match history doesn't indicate any trolling at all).
Hey guys, I haven't played in about 12 months. I used to main ADC, and was diamond. I am a bit confused about the current runes though. Can someone explain to me why all the pros run Atkspeed quints nowadays over lifesteal quints?
Because lifesteal quints were nerfed from 2% to 1.5%, lifesteal on dblade is back, more sustain when popular supports are mostly tanky dudes with Relic Shield, and it helps last hitting and early damage too (I think when it started the popular marksmen were Graves, Lucian and Corki, all with shit base AS).
You will lose the early push without AS runes unless you burn all your mana, plus they are simply just the most efficient quints. You dont need AD quints to hit the sweet spots for lasthitting anyway.
On June 14 2015 22:08 Mensol wrote: ive been watching MaRin's stream for like 1.5 months. Everyone should check his stream for once.
He has the most smoothest style i have ever seen. I mean his playstyle cant be explained by words, just watch it and you'll see. Also Bard+Cassio combo on KR server is godlike.
got a link for the stream?
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
as long as you can play at or above your mmr and play smartly on your off champs you'll do alright. even if your winrate sucks with other roles it doesn't matter if you play your main 2-3x more frequently than other characters
Honestly most of HTC's videos (basically since they started sponsoring League teams) that involve the pro players have been pretty good quality, both in terms of content and production value.
Buncha sight wards, which I agree with, but not enough assists? Main issue is clearly my farming in lane (that and I buy a bunch of potions so I'm not actually as ahead as I may seem, I think I rarely come back to lane with less than 3 potions overall, or 2 if I have flask) and my high amount of deaths, especially as mid and support. Low assists is only from the jungle since I could gank much more, but that's not even the majority of my games. Or roam from top.
Been playing SoloQ and just climbed to master the third time. OP.GG stopped detecting my MMR, which last time I checked was at around 2800, while the sub for my role in my team was at 2400 and in promos to master. He now just made it as well.
So I'd be playing with D1s, Masters and one or two challengers, and he'd be playing with D3, D2, and some D1s.
My question is, what weird kind of ladder system is this, that doesn't actually work as a ladder? I mean, the last game of his promos was average of D2 rank; mine, 8 Masters, 1 Diamond 1 and 1 Diamond 2.
Also, any hints as to why the MMR part of OP.GG stopped working in my case?
On June 16 2015 08:05 JJMC wrote: Been playing SoloQ and just climbed to master the third time. OP.GG stopped detecting my MMR, which last time I checked was at around 2800, while the sub for my role in my team was at 2400 and in promos to master. He now just made it as well.
So I'd be playing with D1s, Masters and one or two challengers, and he'd be playing with D3, D2, and some D1s.
My question is, what weird kind of ladder system is this, that doesn't actually work as a ladder? I mean, the last game of his promos was average of D2 rank; mine, 8 Masters, 1 Diamond 1 and 1 Diamond 2.
Also, any hints as to why the MMR part of OP.GG stopped working in my case?
one theory is its algorithm is bugging out since you're so high up.
Yeah I know the MMR doesn't match Division/Rank, but why keep the Rank/Division where the number of players is so low it's not even close to accurate? A difference of 300 MMR is the difference between Gold 5 and Gold 1. 2 Masters at 0 LP can have a whole tier of difference and the same place in the ladder.
On June 16 2015 08:12 JJMC wrote: Yeah I know the MMR doesn't match Division/Rank, but why keep the Rank/Division where the number of players is so low it's not even close to accurate? A difference of 300 MMR is the difference between Gold 5 and Gold 1. 2 Masters at 0 LP can have a whole tier of difference and the same place in the ladder.
To make people feel cool for being in Master's. Plus IIRC masters and challengers works very different than regular rank/division, since they're limited by %/# of players, while no other rank or division works that way.
On June 16 2015 07:08 Alaric wrote: Buncha sight wards, which I agree with, but not enough assists? Main issue is clearly my farming in lane (that and I buy a bunch of potions so I'm not actually as ahead as I may seem, I think I rarely come back to lane with less than 3 potions overall, or 2 if I have flask) and my high amount of deaths, especially as mid and support. Low assists is only from the jungle since I could gank much more, but that's not even the majority of my games. Or roam from top.
All its doing is looking at your stats compared to other players and ranking it. So if you die more than other plays it says "don't die as much dummy".
It seems to be making some amount of adjustment for role/champion but not sure how much. Longer games will get you better numbers in general since its looking at absolute values.
On June 16 2015 08:16 wei2coolman wrote: To make people feel cool for being in Master's. Plus IIRC masters and challengers works very different than regular rank/division, since they're limited by %/# of players, while no other rank or division works that way.
Nah, Masters isn't limited. It just shows your position in the ladder and if you add +200 from all the challengers then you know your true place. Or it's supposed to at least. But there's a mess in low Masters so far. 200 or more at 0 LP.
On June 16 2015 07:08 Alaric wrote: Buncha sight wards, which I agree with, but not enough assists? Main issue is clearly my farming in lane (that and I buy a bunch of potions so I'm not actually as ahead as I may seem, I think I rarely come back to lane with less than 3 potions overall, or 2 if I have flask) and my high amount of deaths, especially as mid and support. Low assists is only from the jungle since I could gank much more, but that's not even the majority of my games. Or roam from top.
All its doing is looking at your stats compared to other players and ranking it. So if you die more than other plays it says "don't die as much dummy".
It seems to be making some amount of adjustment for role/champion but not sure how much. Longer games will get you better numbers in general since its looking at absolute values.
People must die a fuckton because a constant in my scores (especially as support) is very low kills / pretty high deaths (I average 6-7 a game, and long-ass blood bath games or stomps where I'm supporting are often up to 10) / varied assists (vary wildly top/jungle, top tends to be low, and support is super high unless we get stomped).
I regularly hit the highest deaths on my team (2nd highest in stomps as I play very bad from behind but am rarely the main root so someone's been feeding a storm before). That has to be very bad. For that not to be my worst metric, people must be feeding an awful low in lower leagues (and getting a decent amount of assists) that deaths isn't tagged as my big weakness (cs, as low as it is, still blows bronze and low silver out of the water so there's no way it'll show up).
Solo lane Lulu is going to build a bunch of AP so leveling E last isn't as harsh on the values as for support Lulu. She'll also tend to use E to ensure a Q hit or to extend her range for harass, which burns a bunch of mana.
W means easier roams (and well that's the point of solo lane Lulu, or grouping, you bully people in lane but by the time you hit level 9+ you shouldn't be looking to solo kill people), possibly another cast during a fight/skirmish from the lower cooldown, longer cc lthough it only makes itself felt when nearing level 13, etc.
On support Lulu I could see maxing W for cc duration since you'll be starved for experience and will have less mana regen. On the other hand you'll mainly use E defensively ('cept if you're an idiot with no brakes like me) so the higher shield value is nice, but depending on comps it won't really matter.
On June 16 2015 07:08 Alaric wrote: Buncha sight wards, which I agree with, but not enough assists? Main issue is clearly my farming in lane (that and I buy a bunch of potions so I'm not actually as ahead as I may seem, I think I rarely come back to lane with less than 3 potions overall, or 2 if I have flask) and my high amount of deaths, especially as mid and support. Low assists is only from the jungle since I could gank much more, but that's not even the majority of my games. Or roam from top.
All its doing is looking at your stats compared to other players and ranking it. So if you die more than other plays it says "don't die as much dummy".
It seems to be making some amount of adjustment for role/champion but not sure how much. Longer games will get you better numbers in general since its looking at absolute values.
People must die a fuckton because a constant in my scores (especially as support) is very low kills / pretty high deaths (I average 6-7 a game, and long-ass blood bath games or stomps where I'm supporting are often up to 10) / varied assists (vary wildly top/jungle, top tends to be low, and support is super high unless we get stomped).
I regularly hit the highest deaths on my team (2nd highest in stomps as I play very bad from behind but am rarely the main root so someone's been feeding a storm before). That has to be very bad. For that not to be my worst metric, people must be feeding an awful low in lower leagues (and getting a decent amount of assists) that deaths isn't tagged as my big weakness (cs, as low as it is, still blows bronze and low silver out of the water so there's no way it'll show up).
Yea, my worst score is "deaths" and its "gold level" which is probably 5-8 deaths (maybe more) per game. I play pretty unselfishly with regards to dying but damn you can't really get much worse than that can you?
"Unless you got tons of kills or are a split pushing monster, you probably aren't participating in team fights enough." my most played recently have been trynd and shen hahaha
On June 16 2015 06:48 krndandaman wrote: have you guys tried freelo.gg that's on reddit?
obviously a bit inflated (im not challenjour l0l) but pretty good at pointing out an obvious weakness. for me it was Kills and I obviously play much safer than I need to at times. for some of my friends it was warding or deaths, which is completely true for them.
what you guys get?
master/challenger for most things on kat master for anivia
my weakest point is unsurprsingly damage to champions but i don't really know how to up it more short of playing ADC or poke characters.
my understanding of how it rates things is that you might have stats that match a certain bracket but other things like getting caught or decision making can't be measured and are what ultimately are holding you back?
On June 16 2015 09:16 aurawashere wrote: "Unless you got tons of kills or are a split pushing monster, you probably aren't participating in team fights enough." my most played recently have been trynd and shen hahaha
yup I main nasus and got that unsurprisingly. best stat CS lel
they cant make a jungle item without breaking the meta completely. Picks like diana jungle and ekko jungle are already borderline good in solo q, this is going to push it over the top. fizz is obviously going to make a comeback too. Im interested to see how it fares on warwick since devourer is so garbage.
On June 16 2015 12:57 VayneAuthority wrote: they cant make a jungle item without breaking the meta completely. Picks like diana jungle and ekko jungle are already borderline good in solo q, this is going to push it over the top. fizz is obviously going to make a comeback too. Im interested to see how it fares on warwick since devourer is so garbage.
i can't speak about ekko in particular cause i haven't played against jungle ekko yet. but in diana's case she is extremely susceptible to counter jungling. if you can steal one of her buffs on the first clear or better then she falls behind pretty quickly
On June 15 2015 02:11 schmutttt wrote: As you climb higher in soloq, do you guys have issues with playing your 'off' roles? I'm a top lane main and still win about 60-70% of the games I have gotten top recently, but my winrate is other roles would be like 30%. Should I practice off roles on a smurf? The only thing I'm afraid about with smurfing is my skill level has dropped off a lot when I play large amounts of games at a lower level. FYI I'm plat 2.
as long as you can play at or above your mmr and play smartly on your off champs you'll do alright. even if your winrate sucks with other roles it doesn't matter if you play your main 2-3x more frequently than other characters
You can just play off roles on your main. Maybe your ranking will tank a bit, but it's the best practice you'll get and you'll improve in the long run. I've also found that having 3 roles is usually enough get by, so having a solid support and jungle will probably nab you a comfortable position each game.
Additionally I've found breadth beats depth for off-roles, because generally you're in the lower pick zones when you're forced into another role, so you can usually counter pick the enemy lane. That's why my support and jungle win rates are higher than my adc main, but I would get smashed I tried to pick those roles blind.
On June 15 2015 22:38 Alaric wrote: Because lifesteal quints were nerfed from 2% to 1.5%, lifesteal on dblade is back, more sustain when popular supports are mostly tanky dudes with Relic Shield, and it helps last hitting and early damage too (I think when it started the popular marksmen were Graves, Lucian and Corki, all with shit base AS).
man guess nidalee jungle is one of those champions i will be able to play, its like different type of champion in theory shes supposed to be similar to khazix,shaco cuz shes bursty,squishy high pressure early but for the love of me i cant play her past early game i jsut die instantly after i go in in cougar form:/
On June 16 2015 10:15 Goumindong wrote: I feel like it must account for position/champion. Otherwise there is no way in hell my 7 CS bard performance rates as "Gold Level CS"
I had Gold performance on a support game where I had 0 cs, soooo...
On June 16 2015 12:57 VayneAuthority wrote: they cant make a jungle item without breaking the meta completely. Picks like diana jungle and ekko jungle are already borderline good in solo q, this is going to push it over the top. fizz is obviously going to make a comeback too. Im interested to see how it fares on warwick since devourer is so garbage.
i can't speak about ekko in particular cause i haven't played against jungle ekko yet. but in diana's case she is extremely susceptible to counter jungling. if you can steal one of her buffs on the first clear or better then she falls behind pretty quickly
All I know is Runeglaive is Cinderhulk-level, and as a result we will be seeing AP Jungle Assassins again if not Smite on AP Assassins in lane.
On June 16 2015 12:57 VayneAuthority wrote: they cant make a jungle item without breaking the meta completely. Picks like diana jungle and ekko jungle are already borderline good in solo q, this is going to push it over the top. fizz is obviously going to make a comeback too. Im interested to see how it fares on warwick since devourer is so garbage.
i can't speak about ekko in particular cause i haven't played against jungle ekko yet. but in diana's case she is extremely susceptible to counter jungling. if you can steal one of her buffs on the first clear or better then she falls behind pretty quickly
All I know is Runeglaive is Cinderhulk-level, and as a result we will be seeing AP Jungle Assassins again if not Smite on AP Assassins in lane.
i was thinking that being able to buy a first item Sheen would be really nice to give lane smite Fizz some early game all-in/snowball potential in solo queue that he lacks with the current Cinderhulk builds that are common in competitive play.
Shouldn't, Flashing doesn't. I don't know about interaction from damage (Ignite) or debuffs (Exhaust, Randuin's) do, I posit at least damage does (homework: Wukong with Thornmail stealths while an autoattack projectile flies toward him). I don't know what Zhonya's does (homework: Twitch's stealthed swag!).
Because it's during the fadeaway, he can also recall stealthed this way. However, I assume this means that he exists Zhonya's stealthed. But does he become stealthed too during the stasis (gold statue disappears!) or does he stay "normal" and only instantly receive stealth when Zhonya's effect ends?
On June 16 2015 23:37 Alaric wrote: Because it's during the fadeaway, he can also recall stealthed this way. However, I assume this means that he exists Zhonya's stealthed. But does he become stealthed too during the stasis (gold statue disappears!) or does he stay "normal" and only instantly receive stealth when Zhonya's effect ends?
I have no idea. It is literally a loading screen tip. I think it is worded like "if he uses zhonyas immediately after activation", so with the 2 second zhonyas and the stealth delay... I guess he just exists zhonyas stealthed.
ok so i havent jungled at all since i took a break from this game, so the last time i jungled was last season. can someone explain which junglers use which jungle items? seems most jungles use the chilling smite one? also, does cinderhulk = ancient golem and warrior = lizard elder and magus = the AP one?
Honestly, it's pretty much "go Cinderhulk on everyone no matter what" but some of the fight-happy aggro junglers can get away with Warrior (like Lee, Kha). No one REALLY does the AP one, unless you want to jungle Fiddle.
On June 17 2015 00:28 AsmodeusXI wrote: Honestly, it's pretty much "go Cinderhulk on everyone no matter what" but some of the fight-happy aggro junglers can get away with Warrior (like Lee, Kha). No one REALLY does the AP one, unless you want to jungle Fiddle.
It's not even worth getting on fiddle until after zhonya's. Pretty much you get machete upgrade and rush straight to zhonya's. At that point you can choose to go magus upgrade or work on another ap item. Fiddle doesn't benefit that greatly from 20% cdr.
That's the critical problem with Magus. 80 AP and 20% CDR for 1400g is incredibly efficient, but it's still nothing more than a stat stick. You really want more oomph for your 1 and 2 item timings, and pure stats in anything less than excess typically isn't enough.
On June 17 2015 00:28 AsmodeusXI wrote: Honestly, it's pretty much "go Cinderhulk on everyone no matter what" but some of the fight-happy aggro junglers can get away with Warrior (like Lee, Kha). No one REALLY does the AP one, unless you want to jungle Fiddle.
It's not even worth getting on fiddle until after zhonya's. Pretty much you get machete upgrade and rush straight to zhonya's. At that point you can choose to go magus upgrade or work on another ap item. Fiddle doesn't benefit that greatly from 20% cdr.
Fid benefits hugely from CDR midgame, E is stupid good.
But he's still kinda broken AFAIK, I played him recently and his W still prematurely cancels a lot of the time, though random direction on Q makes it better than when they ran straight away (that was hilariously counterproductive). Need further testing to figure out exactly what's going on.
On June 16 2015 14:13 kongoline wrote: man guess nidalee jungle is one of those champions i will be able to play, its like different type of champion in theory shes supposed to be similar to khazix,shaco cuz shes bursty,squishy high pressure early but for the love of me i cant play her past early game i jsut die instantly after i go in in cougar form:/
Play it against me, I think I'm under 20% against jungle Nidalees (I never play jungle and rarely feed her but somehow she always gets huge).
On June 17 2015 00:50 Seuss wrote: That's the critical problem with Magus. 80 AP and 20% CDR for 1400g is incredibly efficient, but it's still nothing more than a stat stick. You really want more oomph for your 1 and 2 item timings, and pure stats in anything less than excess typically isn't enough.
Morello is mostly a stat stick with these ones though (albeit the mp5 is a big part of its choice).
On June 17 2015 00:28 AsmodeusXI wrote: Honestly, it's pretty much "go Cinderhulk on everyone no matter what" but some of the fight-happy aggro junglers can get away with Warrior (like Lee, Kha). No one REALLY does the AP one, unless you want to jungle Fiddle.
It's not even worth getting on fiddle until after zhonya's. Pretty much you get machete upgrade and rush straight to zhonya's. At that point you can choose to go magus upgrade or work on another ap item. Fiddle doesn't benefit that greatly from 20% cdr.
Fid benefits hugely from CDR midgame, E is stupid good.
But he's still kinda broken AFAIK, I played him recently and his W still prematurely cancels a lot of the time, though random direction on Q makes it better than when they ran straight away (that was hilariously counterproductive). Need further testing to figure out exactly what's going on.
Realistically speaking. You won't be e maxed until around level 15 or 17 depending on how many points you have in life drain.
Early magus is useless for fid. Much better to continue getting an abyssal or rylsis, or etc on fid than the need for early cdr. Later in the game cdr becomes more important for fid as fights happen more often, so finishing magus after first 2-3 core items is probably ideal.
On June 17 2015 00:50 Seuss wrote: That's the critical problem with Magus. 80 AP and 20% CDR for 1400g is incredibly efficient, but it's still nothing more than a stat stick. You really want more oomph for your 1 and 2 item timings, and pure stats in anything less than excess typically isn't enough.
Morello is mostly a stat stick with these ones though (albeit the mp5 is a big part of its choice).
Most everything is only a stat stick.
The only one that aren't are Zhonya(Active), Morello(Healing Reduction), Seraphs(active Shield), Twin Shadows, Lichbane(changes your attack pattern if you're buying second), and Rylai's(slow). The main component of these are stat sticks, especially Morello's, Seraphs, and Lichbane. And besides Zhonya's and Morello's (seraphs specialty) almost no one buys them first or second item.
80 AP and 20% CDR for 1400 gold is amazing and you should buy it first/second every time because you can't get 80 AP for 1600 gold. You're literally given 20% CDR and 200 Gold for free here.
Edit: Fids benefits hugely from CDR mid game because it means more ults. Setting up good ults is like the entire point of picking fids and CDR means you can do that more often.
On June 17 2015 02:29 nafta wrote: Except since you are a jungler unless every single one of your ganks works you will not get zhonya in time to be relevant in teamfights.
Yes, you get it right after Zhonya. Which makes it second item
edit: i should have clarified. When talking about stat sticks i was talking in general. An AP focused jungler should buy the item first or second because you just can't get that kind of power on any other item for a similar price. Fids should get it second after Zhonya because the Zhonya active is so important and because buying it first might mean delaying Zhonya until a point where he can't afford it.
On June 17 2015 02:29 nafta wrote: Except since you are a jungler unless every single one of your ganks works you will not get zhonya in time to be relevant in teamfights.
Yes, you get it right after Zhonya. Which makes it second item
edit: i should have clarified. When talking about stat sticks i was talking in general. An AP focused jungler should buy the item first or second because you just can't get that kind of power on any other item for a similar price. Fids should get it second after Zhonya because the Zhonya active is so important and because buying it first might mean delaying Zhonya until a point where he can't afford it.
ye agree with that.Realistically it probably is gotten as a first item more often than not just cause of how hard it can be to get an nlr.
On June 17 2015 00:50 Seuss wrote: That's the critical problem with Magus. 80 AP and 20% CDR for 1400g is incredibly efficient, but it's still nothing more than a stat stick. You really want more oomph for your 1 and 2 item timings, and pure stats in anything less than excess typically isn't enough.
Morello is mostly a stat stick with these ones though (albeit the mp5 is a big part of its choice).
Morello is also a much stronger stat stick than Magus. Magus fights an 850g handicap since you have to invest in Machete + Upgrade first, so as efficient as it is by itself it's actually far less efficient than Morello. 2327g in stats versus 3050g in stats for roughly the same cost (2250g vs 2300g).
Cinderhulk reigns supreme because utility and special abilities tend to trump pure stats unless you have a lot of them. Cinderhulk's stats are actually highly inefficient, you only get 1000g worth of stats initially, and most common builds barely push that above 1400g by the end of the game. What makes Cinderhulk strong is that it provides clearing power and damage which scales upwards as the game progresses. Runeglaive is far superior to Magus for similar reasons, despite being far less cost efficient in terms of pure stats..
Magus fights a zero g handicap because you're going to buy Machete + Upgrade anyway in the jungle. The problem is not its efficiency its the fact that the meta doesn't favor squishy junglers.
On June 17 2015 03:34 Goumindong wrote: Magus fights a zero g handicap because you're going to buy Machete + Upgrade anyway in the jungle. The problem is not its efficiency its the fact that the meta doesn't favor squishy junglers.
The fundamental reason why you get so many stats for 1400g is because you're fighting that 850g handicap, otherwise it wouldn't be so efficient for that price. That you're going to buy Machete + Upgrade anyway is irrelevant, you have to buy them to get Magus.
On June 17 2015 03:34 Goumindong wrote: Magus fights a zero g handicap because you're going to buy Machete + Upgrade anyway in the jungle. The problem is not its efficiency its the fact that the meta doesn't favor squishy junglers.
The fundamental reason why you get so many stats for 1400g is because you're fighting that 850g handicap, otherwise it wouldn't be so efficient for that price. That you're going to buy Machete + Upgrade anyway is irrelevant, you have to buy them to get Magus.
Its true that magus is cheap because its a jungle item. But that is irrelevant. Its not on the margin. You take smite in the jungle, you start with machete, you get upgrade first back. These are your best options regardless of what comes next so you get them. Then you've got machete and upgrade and magus looks really efficient then.
Maybe you can say the upgrade cost is part of the magus cost. You could start with machete and then not upgrade. But that seems kind of dumb to be considering the value of the upgrade and Magus still is a great amount of stats for the value
On June 16 2015 08:29 krndandaman wrote: TIL pros max W 2nd on lulu instead of E (talking about solo lane lulu btw)
was quite a revelation seeing how lulu is now my 2nd most played and 2nd highest winrate though I only picked her up this season tbf. I started off just copying champion.gg since according to it, most of all soloq lulu players go Q E W max. however when I looked at pros, they nearly all go Q W E max.
makes sense though, W's cd scales off ranks, mana stays the same, and duration scales off ranks while E's cd doesn't scale off ranks and mana increases. silly me never bothered to actually read her wiki page.
wonder why there's such a large disconnect though, I've never really seen a case like this where there's a huge disconnect between pro vs soloq in skill order. the only explanation I can think of is either A) players never got used to change after her W change in patch 4.13 (which is a looong time ago) B) W doesn't do damage lol and players like damage
are there any other cases like this? can't think of one
edit: er at least all korean pros* a decent amount of western pros (froggen, wickd, etc) go E max 2nd haven't seen a E max 2nd korean yet
Haven't checked in a while but before eve was "changed" last season, majority of Koreans would max w second and foreigners e second. I even asked meteos about this on his stream once back then and he didn't even know that Koreans were doing that
On June 17 2015 03:34 Goumindong wrote: Magus fights a zero g handicap because you're going to buy Machete + Upgrade anyway in the jungle. The problem is not its efficiency its the fact that the meta doesn't favor squishy junglers.
The fundamental reason why you get so many stats for 1400g is because you're fighting that 850g handicap, otherwise it wouldn't be so efficient for that price. That you're going to buy Machete + Upgrade anyway is irrelevant, you have to buy them to get Magus.
Its true that magus is cheap because its a jungle item. But that is irrelevant. Its not on the margin. You take smite in the jungle, you start with machete, you get upgrade first back. These are your best options regardless of what comes next so you get them. Then you've got machete and upgrade and magus looks really efficient then.
Maybe you can say the upgrade cost is part of the magus cost. You could start with machete and then not upgrade. But that seems kind of dumb to be considering the value of the upgrade and Magus still is a great amount of stats for the value
I think we're arguing past each other a bit because we're approaching the discussion from very different angles.
You're concerned with the moment where you choose between working toward Magus and investing in a new build path (e.g. Zhonya's) as an AP jungler. I'm in complete agreement that at that specific point Magus is an extremely efficient option, requiring an equally good reason to start working toward something else.
I'm concerned with Magus from a bird's eye view. In terms of game impact and timing it's just a weaker Morellonomicon and doesn't provide the AP jungler with the oomph to compete against a lane fulfilling a similar role. To point, what is the value of a given AP jungle versus that same champion mid if the former hits their 2300g timing with a weaker item than the latter?
What I'm essentially trying to say is that despite Magus being highly efficient after Machete + Upgrade, the end result doesn't have a Cinderhulk-level impact on the game. Runeglaive will.
Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Original Golem Spirit was butt. Magus has been butt.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
Can anyone here give me some Jayce tips? I usually really like poke champs and complex champions, but I just suck ass at Jayce. It feels like my poke is too infrequent to matter for most of the game, and getting closer gets me wrecked. I don't do nearly enough in fights.
Like how should I lane vs Zed? Every MU seems like knife edge fucking hard.
On June 16 2015 08:29 krndandaman wrote: TIL pros max W 2nd on lulu instead of E (talking about solo lane lulu btw)
was quite a revelation seeing how lulu is now my 2nd most played and 2nd highest winrate though I only picked her up this season tbf. I started off just copying champion.gg since according to it, most of all soloq lulu players go Q E W max. however when I looked at pros, they nearly all go Q W E max.
makes sense though, W's cd scales off ranks, mana stays the same, and duration scales off ranks while E's cd doesn't scale off ranks and mana increases. silly me never bothered to actually read her wiki page.
wonder why there's such a large disconnect though, I've never really seen a case like this where there's a huge disconnect between pro vs soloq in skill order. the only explanation I can think of is either A) players never got used to change after her W change in patch 4.13 (which is a looong time ago) B) W doesn't do damage lol and players like damage
are there any other cases like this? can't think of one
edit: er at least all korean pros* a decent amount of western pros (froggen, wickd, etc) go E max 2nd haven't seen a E max 2nd korean yet
Haven't checked in a while but before eve was "changed" last season, majority of Koreans would max w second and foreigners e second. I even asked meteos about this on his stream once back then and he didn't even know that Koreans were doing that
I am guessing that they value the catch/cleanse potential of maxing W over the extra damage of E.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
I would love to see Mord back in the mix of things. He has been away far too long.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Original Golem Spirit was butt. Magus has been butt.
Being terrible is one type of being broken. People just QQ about it less.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
* Nidalee I don't necessarily disagree, Its just that those champions, based on the strength of the item, will either be stronger than warrior champs, or weaker, and that will basically be the end of the discussion. Even cinderhulk junglers like Gragas and Amumu could end up using the Runeglaive if it is better. These items just have too many factors to balance against each other to be balanced in the long run.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
I would love to see Mord back in the mix of things. He has been away far too long.
He can clear the jungle easily, it's just a question of what he's good for outside of that (right now, not much).
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Original Golem Spirit was butt. Magus has been butt.
Being terrible is one type of being broken. People just QQ about it less.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
a Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
* Nidalee I don't necessarily disagree, Its just that those champions, based on the strength of the item, will either be stronger than warrior champs, or weaker, and that will basically be the end of the discussion. Even cinderhulk junglers like Gragas and Amumu could end up using the Runeglaive if it is better. These items just have too many factors to balance against each other to be balanced in the long run.
Right, a hypothetical alternative to machete to help clearing early is just as likely to help existing jungle champions as it would jungler-hopefuls. Same problem.
I'd be pretty stoked to see Runeglaive Amumu in competitive though.
On June 17 2015 06:25 oo_Wonderful_oo wrote: Runeglaive should be hilariously op for half of those champions to even consider buying it instead of cinderhulk.
There is just no point for almost anyone but Fizz/Diana/Ekko to go this route instead of warrior/cinderhulk.
One could argue that Nidalee would also want Runeglaive as well, so that she can leap in and deal damage and not just be a spear thrower like how most people playing her in the professional scene are playing her right now.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
I would love to see Mord back in the mix of things. He has been away far too long.
He can clear the jungle easily, it's just a question of what he's good for outside of that (right now, not much).
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Original Golem Spirit was butt. Magus has been butt.
Being terrible is one type of being broken. People just QQ about it less.
On June 17 2015 05:07 Seuss wrote:
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
a Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
* Nidalee I don't necessarily disagree, Its just that those champions, based on the strength of the item, will either be stronger than warrior champs, or weaker, and that will basically be the end of the discussion. Even cinderhulk junglers like Gragas and Amumu could end up using the Runeglaive if it is better. These items just have too many factors to balance against each other to be balanced in the long run.
Right, a hypothetical alternative to machete to help clearing early is just as likely to help existing jungle champions as it would jungler-hopefuls. Same problem.
I'd be pretty stoked to see Runeglaive Amumu in competitive though.
Yea, that's why the jungle needs to go to a more S2-style trivial to clear model. Possibly with more gold than S2, but no oracles elixir so they only have to balance the gold efficiency between clearing camps and ganking. Instead, in the current system they need to balance those two, plus clear speed, plus health after clearing, plus jungle item efficiency (slot and gold).
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
I would love to see Mord back in the mix of things. He has been away far too long.
He can clear the jungle easily, it's just a question of what he's good for outside of that (right now, not much).
On June 17 2015 05:43 cLutZ wrote:
On June 17 2015 04:57 Gahlo wrote:
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Original Golem Spirit was butt. Magus has been butt.
Being terrible is one type of being broken. People just QQ about it less.
On June 17 2015 05:07 Seuss wrote:
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
a Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
* Nidalee I don't necessarily disagree, Its just that those champions, based on the strength of the item, will either be stronger than warrior champs, or weaker, and that will basically be the end of the discussion. Even cinderhulk junglers like Gragas and Amumu could end up using the Runeglaive if it is better. These items just have too many factors to balance against each other to be balanced in the long run.
Right, a hypothetical alternative to machete to help clearing early is just as likely to help existing jungle champions as it would jungler-hopefuls. Same problem.
I'd be pretty stoked to see Runeglaive Amumu in competitive though.
Yea, that's why the jungle needs to go to a more S2-style trivial to clear model. Possibly with more gold than S2, but no oracles elixir so they only have to balance the gold efficiency between clearing camps and ganking. Instead, in the current system they need to balance those two, plus clear speed, plus health after clearing, plus jungle item efficiency (slot and gold).
I dont think it should be trivial, I think it shouyld be difficult but I think AoE shoud clear the jungle a lot faster than Single target.
Becuase Single target is a lot better in ganks then AoE is.
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
I would love to see Mord back in the mix of things. He has been away far too long.
He can clear the jungle easily, it's just a question of what he's good for outside of that (right now, not much).
On June 17 2015 05:43 cLutZ wrote:
On June 17 2015 04:57 Gahlo wrote:
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Original Golem Spirit was butt. Magus has been butt.
Being terrible is one type of being broken. People just QQ about it less.
On June 17 2015 05:07 Seuss wrote:
On June 17 2015 04:54 cLutZ wrote: Perhaps, however the most important clears in the game is still the first clear and the second clear, and Cinderhulk vs. Runeglaive won't fix those problems. In addition, Runeglaive will almost certainly still be a balance issue, because no jungle item released in the 3 seasons they have existed has not been.
Sure, but there are plenty of AP champions who can manage those clears fine and make use of Runeglaive later. We'll find out to what degree soon enough, but off the top of my head:
Fizz
Eve
Diana
Ekko
Cho'gath
Akali
Mordekaiser
a Basically if you're waiting for an item that will help a jungler who really can't handle the first clear well alone (e.g. Karma, Katarina) you're out of luck. That probably won't be seen until the jungle is remade once again in 6.0.
* Nidalee I don't necessarily disagree, Its just that those champions, based on the strength of the item, will either be stronger than warrior champs, or weaker, and that will basically be the end of the discussion. Even cinderhulk junglers like Gragas and Amumu could end up using the Runeglaive if it is better. These items just have too many factors to balance against each other to be balanced in the long run.
Right, a hypothetical alternative to machete to help clearing early is just as likely to help existing jungle champions as it would jungler-hopefuls. Same problem.
I'd be pretty stoked to see Runeglaive Amumu in competitive though.
Yea, that's why the jungle needs to go to a more S2-style trivial to clear model. Possibly with more gold than S2, but no oracles elixir so they only have to balance the gold efficiency between clearing camps and ganking. Instead, in the current system they need to balance those two, plus clear speed, plus health after clearing, plus jungle item efficiency (slot and gold).
I dont think it should be trivial, I think it shouyld be difficult but I think AoE shoud clear the jungle a lot faster than Single target.
Becuase Single target is a lot better in ganks then AoE is.
Can you explain why you think a jungle that causes junglers to take non-trivial damage is good for balance? From what I've seen over the past 3 seasons, all its done is constrict the pool of viable/optimal junglers because it makes some champions extremely easy to invade, and they can't gank, and they can barely clear.
But yes on AOE vs. Single target (early), you do have to always account for teamfight power though.
Wasn't the problem with a completely trivial jungle that lanes would take your farm all the time? Would that also be a problem for jungle champion diversity?
On June 17 2015 07:47 phyvo wrote: Wasn't the problem with a completely trivial jungle that lanes would take your farm all the time? Would that also be a problem for jungle champion diversity?
It could be, but that was a problem with the (still unfixed) problem of where jungle camps are located, and that junglers were so far behind anyways (because of poor gold values early and oracles being a must-buy) that giving them farm was kind of a waste.
Even with those problems, in one tournament, on one patch, S2 had the following played:
Shen, Lee Sin, Mundo, Skarner, Shyvana, Maokai, Cho Gath, Nocturne, Udyr, Xin, Amumu, and Alistar (groups only).
Did they hotfix in the Sejuani damage reduction? I noticed she hasn't been banned my last few games and while she gets picked every time she doesn't feel quite as bad. It is more than a remote possibility they are just baddies but I am curious.
I never understood why people talk so much about the jungle diversity like its different than the other lanes diversity. Its quite the same or at least it follows the same patterns. Few items are changed and we have sona/nami/soraka dominating bot lane, then another change we start seeing leona/annie/tresh, then janna then lulu then smth else. Other stuff changes then midlane becomes assassin oriented, another change and boom we have farming mids, same goes for tanky tops, carry tops etc.Caster adcs, auto-attacking ads, hyper carries and so on and so on. My point is that each role/lane has this anti-diversity all the time. The only difference is that jungle is impacted by items&monsters, while other lanes only from items.
Bottom line is that we have 130 champs, 5 roles, 2 champs per role (per game) out of 25-30. In these 25-30 champs we have 3-4 different types (like carry, assassin, tank, wave clearer, poker, combination of those, etc) 1 or 2 of these types are better for the current state of the meta. We can't pick more than one champ per role, we don't have enough bans to force out of (favorable) meta pick, so we end up with approximately 3-4-5 good champs per role
Possible solution is to add more bans. If we have 10 bans per game(like in dota) then boom you can force all tanky jungles out of a particular game. Next game people force out all mid assassins or AP tops and this will make people ready to play more and out of meta champs since you don''t know which lane's favorites will be targeted
On June 17 2015 18:32 Velocirapture wrote: Did they hotfix in the Sejuani damage reduction? I noticed she hasn't been banned my last few games and while she gets picked every time she doesn't feel quite as bad. It is more than a remote possibility they are just baddies but I am curious.
Yup, this time they reduced that actual ingame damage, instead of just the tooltip.
On June 17 2015 18:32 Velocirapture wrote: Did they hotfix in the Sejuani damage reduction? I noticed she hasn't been banned my last few games and while she gets picked every time she doesn't feel quite as bad. It is more than a remote possibility they are just baddies but I am curious.
Yup, this time they reduced that actual ingame damage, instead of just the tooltip.
That is good I guess. In the patch notes they said it would either be hotfixed or left to next patch so I am pleasantly surprised by their initiative. As of right now the only jungle I absolutely hate seeing the enemy get is Gragas and he is getting quite a few nerfs next patch. Jungle has monopolized bans for so long I wonder if it will shift to just cover all the FOTM or if we will just move down the list to Rek'Sai.
On June 17 2015 19:10 M2 wrote: I never understood why people talk so much about the jungle diversity like its different than the other lanes diversity. Its quite the same or at least it follows the same patterns. Few items are changed and we have sona/nami/soraka dominating bot lane, then another change we start seeing leona/annie/tresh, then janna then lulu then smth else. Other stuff changes then midlane becomes assassin oriented, another change and boom we have farming mids, same goes for tanky tops, carry tops etc.Caster adcs, auto-attacking ads, hyper carries and so on and so on. My point is that each role/lane has this anti-diversity all the time. The only difference is that jungle is impacted by items&monsters, while other lanes only from items.
Bottom line is that we have 130 champs, 5 roles, 2 champs per role (per game) out of 25-30. In these 25-30 champs we have 3-4 different types (like carry, assassin, tank, wave clearer, poker, combination of those, etc) 1 or 2 of these types are better for the current state of the meta. We can't pick more than one champ per role, we don't have enough bans to force out of (favorable) meta pick, so we end up with approximately 3-4-5 good champs per role
Possible solution is to add more bans. If we have 10 bans per game(like in dota) then boom you can force all tanky jungles out of a particular game. Next game people force out all mid assassins or AP tops and this will make people ready to play more and out of meta champs since you don''t know which lane's favorites will be targeted
Bans used to be TheYango's axe to grind. He definitely advocated more bans and a split banning phase, but Riot argued this would reduce diversity.
whats the state of adc now? I dont see my self snowballing hard, whenever i win its either some1 carried me or a quite close game 60-40 kinda. I dont feel i am contributing at all this season lol. Any tips?
Is the fascination with Cho'Gath in every ELO or just mine? I understand he has a silence and everything but he feels so useless late game if the other team can kite even halfway effectively.
On June 17 2015 22:01 justiceknight wrote: whats the state of adc now? I dont see my self snowballing hard, whenever i win its either some1 carried me or a quite close game 60-40 kinda. I dont feel i am contributing at all this season lol. Any tips?
Depends on enemy teams honestly but in general kinda.Biggest advice is unless you can consistently win lane pick sivir and enjoy your teamfight wins.
On June 17 2015 22:01 justiceknight wrote: whats the state of adc now? I dont see my self snowballing hard, whenever i win its either some1 carried me or a quite close game 60-40 kinda. I dont feel i am contributing at all this season lol. Any tips?
Depends on enemy teams honestly but in general kinda.Biggest advice is unless you can consistently win lane pick sivir and enjoy your teamfight wins.
Well, with Sivir you do have to have lanes/jungler that do damage, because without that you just run at the enemy really fast and continue to not kill them, which is not very effective.
Also, about Cho'Gath, he's strong in jungle fights and versus engage comps, but he is indeed very kiteable. I haven't seen him that much at my ELO (low Diamond).
Its not just for running at people.Being able to engage/disengage/have ok damage and the best defensive ability in the game is pretty fucking good overall.
On June 17 2015 22:16 nafta wrote: Its not just for running at people.Being able to engage/disengage/have ok damage and the best defensive ability in the game is pretty fucking good overall.
Yes, but if you're the main damage threat on your team, you're gonna have a bad time. Yes, you do have the spellshield and the ult, but when they throw all of their abilities at you at least one of them is gonna stick, and you need your team to punish that. If your team cant do that you're in a pretty shitty place.
Actually that goes for all ADC's with a shit team. I'm not sure where I'm going with this.
Edit: I guess I'm just salty about the last loss with Sivir. AP Yasuo too strong.
On June 17 2015 22:16 nafta wrote: Its not just for running at people.Being able to engage/disengage/have ok damage and the best defensive ability in the game is pretty fucking good overall.
Yes, but if you're the main damage threat on your team, you're gonna have a bad time. Yes, you do have the spellshield and the ult, but when they throw all of their abilities at you at least one of them is gonna stick, and you need your team to punish that. If your team cant do that you're in a pretty shitty place.
Actually that goes for all ADC's with a shit team. I'm not sure where I'm going with this.
Edit: I guess I'm just salty about the last loss with Sivir. AP Yasuo too strong.
if you are the only threat and the enemy isnt stupid you still wont do anything unless your team has champions that buff you regardless what is your champ so getting a catch and being able to run away from dumb situations is pretty good.Right now honestly if kalista or sivir are open no reason not to pick.
that game if you werent sivir youd just die to vi ult+w/e
Sivir is probably my favorite adc if I can play her into the team comp, just press R and run around stupidly while my tanks/assassins dive their back line. Also extremely easy to farm with so it just makes me look like a much better adc than I actually am lol
Find it pretty funny that he has such insane KDAs across the board yet is in gold with nearly 500 games played. Guess it shows that Janna is definitely not a champ you can carry on.
Find it pretty funny that he has such insane KDAs across the board yet is in gold with nearly 500 games played. Guess it shows that Janna is definitely not a champ you can carry on.
it shows that kda isn't something you can carry with alone.
On June 17 2015 22:03 kongoline wrote: u must be playing different game because most of my games are decided by botlane
I kinda feel this way and kinda don't. It seems like whomever wins boy lane also wins the jungle or top. Usually on the same play. And then the other ADC is behind and can't kill the winning tanky jungler/top and the other team just rolls them. But I feel like this is less "decided by bot lane" than it is "meta tends to snowball a teams consistent damage and tank/engage at the same time".
Then there is lategame where AD is AD and the lack of strong assassins (LB is OK but nothing like they used to be) means consistent damage is where it's at. (Why do you see so many Viktor/Azir/Cass picks in competitive now? It's because you have to bring consistent damage from the mid lane as well as wave clear if you want to have a chance to win a team fight against the current set of tanks.)
On June 17 2015 22:03 kongoline wrote: u must be playing different game because most of my games are decided by botlane
I kinda feel this way and kinda don't. It seems like whomever wins boy lane also wins the jungle or top. Usually on the same play. And then the other ADC is behind and can't kill the winning tanky jungler/top and the other team just rolls them. But I feel like this is less "decided by bot lane" than it is "meta tends to snowball a teams consistent damage and tank/engage at the same time".
Then there is lategame where AD is AD and the lack of strong assassins (LB is OK but nothing like they used to be) means consistent damage is where it's at. (Why do you see so many Viktor/Azir/Cass picks in competitive now? It's because you have to bring consistent damage from the mid lane as well as wave clear if you want to have a chance to win a team fight against the current set of tanks.)
also the increase of stuff like alistar/naut support really screws over most assassins
It could also just be someone who is too cautious. You can put up a lot of assit numbers on Janna and sona really easily and get massive KDAsbut sometimes the optimal thing to do is to body block for your AD/mid and die instead of them.
On June 18 2015 06:22 Seuss wrote: That's a tough concept for a lot of players. It's really hard to tell the difference between a pointless and a pointful death.
And then not have other bad players try to "make up" for your death, despite it's goal already being accomplished.
True. Golden rule is "the support is not worth saving" and "it's always worth trading the support" though so for someone who plays what looks like exclusively support it is a weakness.
Look at his games man. He seems to go afk whenever someone is feeding, not hard to have a great KDA when you're idling away in the fountain. That and he never adjust his build against what he's playing vs, doesn't grab Locket when jungler doesn't either against 3x AP for crying out loud. Hardly says anything about the champion.
Find it pretty funny that he has such insane KDAs across the board yet is in gold with nearly 500 games played. Guess it shows that Janna is definitely not a champ you can carry on.
I have a friend like that (though no where near that extreme). 4+ KDA on most champs but stuck in Silver. He plays mostly jungle/supp and is the first out of a fight when it starts turning. It stems from a lack of confidence imo (at least for him). He doesn't feel good about his own ability so he plays super passive. It's not a recipe for improvement.
On June 18 2015 07:39 cLutZ wrote: Man, Kassadin really gets shat on by Garen.
he gets shat on by pretty much anyone not a mage
I have taken him top against Renekton and Gnar to much greater success, and mid against Zed. Garen doesn't use enough skills to charge your E, plus his silence is a bitch...
On June 18 2015 03:37 ticklishmusic wrote: IMO the issue is more tanks are too strong really, they soak damage too well AND they do too much damage.
i feel thats so not true anymore, there are 2 top tier tanks left who do dmg gragas and sejuani, everyone plays nidalee/eve/reksi now and they arent really cinderhulk unkillable tanks, theres also alistar/mao with broken damage reduction passive but its not like they werent strong before cinderhulk
On June 18 2015 13:53 ticklishmusic wrote: At a very brief glance, this seems like it might mitigate snowballing in mid.
I was going to say the opposite, but I totally missed them changing NLR to 1250 gold.
I still dont really get why they are making AP itemization more flexible, I think they have the most item flexibility in the game as it stands by far... but i suppose thats just my opinion.
Pretty interesting, Seraph's change is scary though, I'm not sure if it needs a buff... nashors change is nice, 80 gold for 20 ap is good value, but I still think nashors should be designed at a much lower base cost, to allow access to the ability to do more damage on autos. Aiming closer to 2500 would be nicer. WotA got buffed a fuck ton. 15% pre-resistance is insanity levels of sustain in lategame teamfights. voidstaff feels like a buff, but not by much.
rumble just sounds downright scary right now with these changes.
from vlads perspective wota seems worse during laning, better vs tanks late game, same/worse vs squishies (u already have magic pen at this point and they dont stack mr anyway)
On June 18 2015 14:20 kongoline wrote: from vlads perspective wota seems worse during laning, better vs tanks late game, same/worse vs squishies (u already have magic pen at this point and they dont stack mr anyway)
base mr is around 30. at early levels, with additional mr on runes on opponents, early game in laning is gunna be better.
30/130 is 23% dmg reduction on magic. so if you do 100 pre-resistance magic damage. It's 15 hp with new wota, and only 20% of 77dmg, is 15.4hp with old wota.
So pretty much anything more than 30 mr, is gunna be an improvement.
ye but its worse on minions and thats where it matters if u are allowed to harass enemy to sustain in lane u already won the lane (also for the sake of argument ur math doesnt take into account magic pen from runes and masteries so 30mr isnt the breakpoint ;p)
Holy crap Luden's up to 10% MS? That's stronger than getting boots2 now (7% wasn't enough to beat boots2 even for Pantheon, although with such high base MS you'd outrun lower base MS champs even with boots disadvantage anyway). That's going to be obnoxious to chase poke mages with cc and defense, or worse: mobility.
I get that the passive is a bit meh to them (and hard to balance) so they want something else out of it, but a very high %MS isn't that great a way to do it. Seraph's harder to get because 300 more gold needed, but on the other hand it's not that different from the 1140 combine cost, sooo...
I'm not a fan of RoA giving less HP, though: it was picked up by champions who wanted either more tankiness (including in lane) or mana pool, "only" being 80 AP once stacked was never a concern. 300 HP is still not that bad, but it's... underwhelming for squishy champions who hoped to get a bit sturdier.
On the other hand, and I'm sure Yango who harped about how speed buffs/debuffs stacked compared to DotA noticed it:
This is a very powerful push in terms of Rylai's overall power - but we'll be looking at modifying and cleaning up of the slow rules as well either now or in the near future.
And WotA is stupid with these numbers, yeah. I can get the idea but apart from the "minions" case it's so much stronger in this iteration it's not even funny, and the scaling is derlirious. Also what does "spell and abilities" mean, is it the same as now, or would it mean Azir heals a bunch whenever he presses Q+right click on a bunch of tanks?
Real talk, why do people still use blitz in solo queue? he's so fucking useless in lane and out of lane he's situational. No point in taking him over thresh, yet i see blitz all the fuckign time.
On June 18 2015 13:53 ticklishmusic wrote: At a very brief glance, this seems like it might mitigate snowballing in mid.
I was going to say the opposite, but I totally missed them changing NLR to 1250 gold.
I still dont really get why they are making AP itemization more flexible, I think they have the most item flexibility in the game as it stands by far... but i suppose thats just my opinion.
Just Riot proving once again that AP is their baby and spoiling the fuck out of it.
Blitz is a perfectly viable champion (and my main) because he offers very strong engage and good situational disengage which is really all you can ask out of a support. The biggest thing Thresh has that he doesn't is lantern, as his QE are still very powerful.
Really I've noticed those who hate Blitz the most are completely ineffective at playing him and/or they get a Blitzcrank support who underperforms and they cry about how bad he is as a champion. Like, any champion who goes 0/8/2 probably looks bad.
You just need to be able to hit hooks in good spots and you're golden.
On June 18 2015 13:53 ticklishmusic wrote: At a very brief glance, this seems like it might mitigate snowballing in mid.
I was going to say the opposite, but I totally missed them changing NLR to 1250 gold.
I still dont really get why they are making AP itemization more flexible, I think they have the most item flexibility in the game as it stands by far... but i suppose thats just my opinion.
yup, cheaper items means that you have to farm less to make up and get enough gold for a NLR or other item if you get killed or something. seems good for champs like azir, cass with some sustained damage but not as much burst.
Someone also pointed out how "good base, meh ratio" would probably be nerfed by the changes to Deathcap (more AP), Guise and Void Staff (more costly penetration), which makes sense.
On June 18 2015 22:39 Alaric wrote: Someone also pointed out how "good base, meh ratio" would probably be nerfed by the changes to Deathcap (more AP), Guise and Void Staff (more costly penetration), which makes sense.
Yes. This seems like it will have the opposite effect that riot wants. Pushing people further into the consistent damage/wave clear mids and away from the utility mids.
Uh-huh. So, after facing Varus directly in lane for the first time, I guess he enters my "ban if he ever becomes really popular" pool. Piercing Arrow's width extends way past the actual particle and makes it easy as hell to hit, so the skill floor is super low. Add to that the 1625 range and he's a proud member of the "I don't care, I'll PvE, sometimes you'll be collateral damage when you end up on the trajectory" group. Also the low mana cost means he gets to spam it, even before Tear starts getting charged.
Screw PvE retard-proof champs, I click "play" to actually play.
Another thing, my spells regularly don't cast, or cast with delay. As in, I click to cast a spell, then move the cursor to move my champ elsewhere. The spell won't cast when I press the button but later, so it casts on my new cursor position (ends up with sending the ball toward our base as Orianna for example). Or I try to drop a W as Viktor, it casts, but a solid second later (I was in range obviously). Since I'm not lagging otherwise, and my ping is fine, it shouldn't be my Internet. Do other people on EUW get that? Or is it possible that it's something from my ISP and not the connection itself? I've had that for awhile (read: months) and I can't seem to be able to do anything about it, so I wonder if it's something I could fix or if I'm boned.
- NLR being cheaper than BFS is pretty interesting, as sitting on 1500 gold for an AD is a pretty big gap/trough in power before, followed by a big spike in damage once they get it. It makes sense for the AD item to be more expensive IMO, because most AP champs deal their damage through their skills, while AD can deal it through skills and AAs. I agree it needed to be cheaper than BFS, but 1250g is pushing it.
- Having everything basically cost the same or be a bit more expensive combined with having Amp Tome being the missing component for basically every major AP item is weird, but ADs have a similar item too (Long Sword) so I guess it makes sense.
- Liandrys buff is LONG overdue, and might help AP mages in the late game deal more damage to the enemy front line. Probably a bit overpowered as-is though in terms of the amount of AP it gives, I'd rather it give 60 or 70 AP, not the 80 they have it giving right now.
On June 19 2015 05:40 Alaric wrote: Another thing, my spells regularly don't cast, or cast with delay. As in, I click to cast a spell, then move the cursor to move my champ elsewhere. The spell won't cast when I press the button but later, so it casts on my new cursor position (ends up with sending the ball toward our base as Orianna for example). Or I try to drop a W as Viktor, it casts, but a solid second later (I was in range obviously). Since I'm not lagging otherwise, and my ping is fine, it shouldn't be my Internet. Do other people on EUW get that? Or is it possible that it's something from my ISP and not the connection itself? I've had that for awhile (read: months) and I can't seem to be able to do anything about it, so I wonder if it's something I could fix or if I'm boned.
Oh, neat site if it works, didn't know about it, thanks. According to it I didn't have packet loss though, so I'm not sure what it is then...
Also how do people play Bard in lane? His W is garbage and only good for dropping some behind the tower before you go pick up chimes for the mana. E's very good for starting ganks if you've left the lane, or even just mindgame the opponent into retreating if you open one alone behind them. But you take a bunch of damage trying to harass with Meeps, and if your Q doesn't stun then it's free damage on your face (or 7s of powerlessness against aggression), while people won't line themselves with minions, and if the minions are somewhat close to each other I don't have the eye whether I'll shackle 2 of them side by side, or the first one and the champ behind him.
Do you just auto as much as you can to push them roam mid or something? Or ask your jungler to camp since you can journey him behind them? Compared to Leona who can initiate aggressively, Soraka who can easily poke with Q and is strong in trades, Lulu who pokes and harasses better with autos, or Braum who can fish with Q and straight-up wins manfight, I feel clueless as to how to make myself useful/have presence in lane when I play Bard.
Pick up at least 2 chimes before heading to lane. This guarantees you level 2 before your enemy. Your level 2 kidna sucks, but you can use the W as a speedup for an engage, and the free stats ensure you're not going to lose to the level 2 ding.
Pressure hard at level 1. Your Q and Meep will mean you win every level 1 trade just about. Your Q-MeepAuto does 140+1.05 AP + Auto Attack Damage[including spellthiefs]. Which is huge. Much higher than any other support can bring to the table. Your Q gains 45 damage/level which is very high so you're relatively powerful on odd-levels. as well.
Poke with Q whenever you can get a good combo in and don't miss. You tend to come out of most meep trades ahead unless you're playing against someone who can really punish you; especially because Q-MeepAuto will discharge all three frostfang charges.
Ideally play with someone who has a really strong level 6 so you can combo your ult-their ult. An especially powerful combination is Pantheon. A bard ult makes a pantheon ult near impossible to avoid.
I'm starting to pick up Karthus. He does an ungodly amount of damage and that is good. He also just dies to assassins Do you like RoA or Rylais on Karthus more?
On June 19 2015 09:58 gobbledydook wrote: I'm starting to pick up Karthus. He does an ungodly amount of damage and that is good. He also just dies to assassins Do you like RoA or Rylais on Karthus more?
If you're against an AD Assassin in lane, skip the tears, go into Catalyst + Armguard, and finish RoA then Zhonya's.
On June 19 2015 07:01 Kinie wrote: Here's my opinions on the AP item changes:
- NLR being cheaper than BFS is pretty interesting, as sitting on 1500 gold for an AD is a pretty big gap/trough in power before, followed by a big spike in damage once they get it. It makes sense for the AD item to be more expensive IMO, because most AP champs deal their damage through their skills, while AD can deal it through skills and AAs. I agree it needed to be cheaper than BFS, but 1250g is pushing it.
- Having everything basically cost the same or be a bit more expensive combined with having Amp Tome being the missing component for basically every major AP item is weird, but ADs have a similar item too (Long Sword) so I guess it makes sense.
- Liandrys buff is LONG overdue, and might help AP mages in the late game deal more damage to the enemy front line. Probably a bit overpowered as-is though in terms of the amount of AP it gives, I'd rather it give 60 or 70 AP, not the 80 they have it giving right now.
Xypherous answered a lot of questions in the comment. They intend to do an AD itemization sweep but he didn't want to put too much on his plate at the same time and AP is an easier itemset to tackle because it doesn't interact with AS(as much) or crit.
He's looking at ways to cut down at the 3 component build ups, but is more focused on getting the costs/stats in a good spot right now given all the stuff he's changed.
On June 19 2015 07:01 Kinie wrote: Here's my opinions on the AP item changes:
- NLR being cheaper than BFS is pretty interesting, as sitting on 1500 gold for an AD is a pretty big gap/trough in power before, followed by a big spike in damage once they get it. It makes sense for the AD item to be more expensive IMO, because most AP champs deal their damage through their skills, while AD can deal it through skills and AAs. I agree it needed to be cheaper than BFS, but 1250g is pushing it.
- Having everything basically cost the same or be a bit more expensive combined with having Amp Tome being the missing component for basically every major AP item is weird, but ADs have a similar item too (Long Sword) so I guess it makes sense.
- Liandrys buff is LONG overdue, and might help AP mages in the late game deal more damage to the enemy front line. Probably a bit overpowered as-is though in terms of the amount of AP it gives, I'd rather it give 60 or 70 AP, not the 80 they have it giving right now.
Xypherous answered a lot of questions in the comment. They intend to do an AD itemization sweep but he didn't want to put too much on his plate at the same time and AP is an easier itemset to tackle because it doesn't interact with AS(as much) or crit.
He's looking at ways to cut down at the 3 component build ups, but is more focused on getting the costs/stats in a good spot right now given all the stuff he's changed.
That was really my issue. HE basically just shifted the NLR cost on every item into an extra amp tome, which really just ends up adding 400 g to an item's combine cost in most cases.
On June 19 2015 09:47 Goumindong wrote: Pick up at least 2 chimes before heading to lane. This guarantees you level 2 before your enemy. Your level 2 kidna sucks, but you can use the W as a speedup for an engage, and the free stats ensure you're not going to lose to the level 2 ding.
Pressure hard at level 1. Your Q and Meep will mean you win every level 1 trade just about. Your Q-MeepAuto does 140+1.05 AP + Auto Attack Damage[including spellthiefs]. Which is huge. Much higher than any other support can bring to the table. Your Q gains 45 damage/level which is very high so you're relatively powerful on odd-levels. as well.
Poke with Q whenever you can get a good combo in and don't miss. You tend to come out of most meep trades ahead unless you're playing against someone who can really punish you; especially because Q-MeepAuto will discharge all three frostfang charges.
Ideally play with someone who has a really strong level 6 so you can combo your ult-their ult. An especially powerful combination is Pantheon. A bard ult makes a pantheon ult near impossible to avoid.
Also the relics are pretty good as pseudo-wards. They don't give vision, but you know when they die.
Also, full mpen rune page.
On June 19 2015 09:58 gobbledydook wrote: I'm starting to pick up Karthus. He does an ungodly amount of damage and that is good. He also just dies to assassins Do you like RoA or Rylais on Karthus more?
RoA, catalyst is pretty good for getting through lane phase. Get Rylai's if you feel confident.
On June 19 2015 05:40 Alaric wrote: Uh-huh. So, after facing Varus directly in lane for the first time, I guess he enters my "ban if he ever becomes really popular" pool. Piercing Arrow's width extends way past the actual particle and makes it easy as hell to hit, so the skill floor is super low. Add to that the 1625 range and he's a proud member of the "I don't care, I'll PvE, sometimes you'll be collateral damage when you end up on the trajectory" group. Also the low mana cost means he gets to spam it, even before Tear starts getting charged.
On June 19 2015 05:40 Alaric wrote: Uh-huh. So, after facing Varus directly in lane for the first time, I guess he enters my "ban if he ever becomes really popular" pool. Piercing Arrow's width extends way past the actual particle and makes it easy as hell to hit, so the skill floor is super low. Add to that the 1625 range and he's a proud member of the "I don't care, I'll PvE, sometimes you'll be collateral damage when you end up on the trajectory" group. Also the low mana cost means he gets to spam it, even before Tear starts getting charged.
Xerath does less damage, goes up to 1400 (it's technically within vision range iirc, 1600 isn't), he spends more mana to cast and his autos have less range and hurt less so you can actually trade with him early on. Xerath's in the list though, along with Ziggs, Anivia, Lux, TF (1400 range on Q is enough to let them PvE if they feel like it). Heck, even Ahri and Zed can be content with PvE if they want because low (previously no) cost and decent range.
Again, that's my personal list, playing mainly Orianna and Viktor who have lower range and/or higher costs.
I'm so amazed by your list of hated enemies midlane if you play lots of Ori. She is my #1 played champion since S2 and the only thing I fear is feeding sidelanes.
Because splitting farm or getting poked from 50% farther than your effective range is boring. Doesn't necessarily mean I do badly, I actually often largely win the early laning (eg. when the weird kind of delay that prevents me from using every opportunity to Q them/get good ults doesn't matter as much), especially vs. Xerath and Leblanc. But Leblanc will keep trying to fight me or pressure then roam, while Xerath will sit on his ass and farm from 1100+ range when mine barely reaches 900, Ziggs will farm or abuse the "point'n'click" 850 range Q and general high damage-to-mana ratio and they'll never even bother to get close or take risks to make stuff happen.
Ahri's annoying for Viktor for the same reason since Q made manaless (then given a tiny cost again but with the huge MS buff): we can fight, and I'd generally come out ahead because of the amount of FotM when Ahri's popular, but she can also shove, use Q to trigger her passive, have spare mana for some Qs directed at me (or Charm if I'm way from minions), and stay far and use Q to dodge the laser when I try to poke. So it's playing PvE vs someone who'd have to eat several lasers in a short timeframe to not have her passive play its role, who can shove you from level 1, and who's super safe.
Do note that Ahri being a shit match-up isn't new, she's always been advantaged in the match-up. She had to be active about it though so I could outplay people, and since the Q cost and utility buffs her skill-floor went even lower than it already was and allowed that lame-ass playstyle.
I never laned against Varus and if I'm playing Maokai, Braum or Zac I won't be too bothered dealing with the poke. 1625 range and a hitbox as wide as Xerath's Q despite the super thin particle (which is super misleading, I ate so many arrows I visually "dodged" before I adjusted correctly) when you're forced to stay close is pretty annoying though.
Because I enjoy playing the champ, I play him better than I do other mids who I'd have to learn, and contrary to the people I rant about I don't sit on my ass trying to laser them from 1050 range without interacting anyway? (That Viktor can't do that and respond to their own push non-withstanding.)
But yeah I'm aware that my pool is pretty low-range, I played Swain long ago, bit of Cass of Lissandra. My longest range mage was when I played Syndra for a bit after release and I'd be bad because couldn't eyeball her Q range anymore.
Viktor is completely risk free and clears waves super efficiently and orianna is the only champion in the game that can be picked in literally any mu and win.Your statements are quite ridiculous.
On June 19 2015 22:19 nafta wrote: orianna is the only champion in the game that can be picked in literally any mu and win.Your statements are quite ridiculous.
My statements are "pick Orianna vs Ziggs and if he doesn't want to interact with you, he pretty much won't have to because he clears from outside your range for cheap with Q." It's not "I can't do anything against these champs!" but "I'm bored when I'm forced to PvE the minion waves because the other guy sits 1k+ range away and just clears, so I dislike the champs that can do it vs my usual picks".
Ahri vs. Ziggs is actually quite easy as well, but I think it's more the fact that people who pick Ziggs are generally A. not mid laners and B. later picks in the draft.
On June 19 2015 22:44 Alaric wrote: My statements are "pick Orianna vs Ziggs and if he doesn't want to interact with you, he pretty much won't have to because he clears from outside your range for cheap with Q." It's not "I can't do anything against these champs!" but "I'm bored when I'm forced to PvE the minion waves because the other guy sits 1k+ range away and just clears, so I dislike the champs that can do it vs my usual picks".
You know there isn't only one lane in the game right?
I mean you pick farm champs and complain when you have to play farm matchups how does this make sense?
On June 19 2015 22:44 Alaric wrote: My statements are "pick Orianna vs Ziggs and if he doesn't want to interact with you, he pretty much won't have to because he clears from outside your range for cheap with Q." It's not "I can't do anything against these champs!" but "I'm bored when I'm forced to PvE the minion waves because the other guy sits 1k+ range away and just clears, so I dislike the champs that can do it vs my usual picks".
You know there isn't only one lane in the game right?
I mean you pick farm champs and complain when you have to play farm matchups how does this make sense?
Ziggs can kill ahri pre6 but loses later.
Oh I meant Ahri has the advantage pretty much at all points -> if you can dodge his skillshots
I mean, if you want to go into details they also push from further than Orianna or Viktor (they outrange them, so if you run up to their tower to kill their wave asap you eat free poke and expose yourself), so they can kill your wave first making it harder for you to ward and thus pressuring you when you don't know where the enemy jungler is.
And I know that if I roam against TF/Lux/Ziggs/Xerath they'll make an impact before me because of their ults' ranges, which doesn't help either. I did roam against Varus for example, but that doesn't change the fact that with his waveclear I can't stay away for too long wihtout sacrificing farm/the tower (and he can force me to take the (very) long way because lol-1625 range and chokepoints).
Viktor is nowhere near the others as a "farm champ" ('cept maybe Varus) because he actually isn't that strong late game relative to others. I don't get your criticism that I "pick a farm champ" when that's the opposite: I try to be aggressive and actually interact with my opponents (wiht my level I certainly shouldn't be allowed to be the one bullying LB, Xerath or Zed with Orianna but I play very aggro most of the time and soloQers rarely handle it well) and they're the one who get afraid and sit away from me and just use their range to clear and sometimes lob a spell at me from max range for harass. I can't walk up to them since they'll just walk back, poke the guy trying to get closer, clear the wave at the same time, and so I can't really outpush them either since they hit the wave first.
On June 19 2015 22:19 nafta wrote: Viktor is completely risk free and clears waves super efficiently and orianna is the only champion in the game that can be picked in literally any mu and win.Your statements are quite ridiculous.
Reminder that he is also the one who says stuff like that Viktor sucks in competitive.
On June 01 2015 08:13 Caiada wrote: Remember when Vik was pick-ban status.
I do.
He only left because he was permabanned due to bug on client. Most players just don't seem to be comfortable with him after so long being banned.
But Viktor is not good. At least, not competitively. He's more aggressive in lane than several popular champions, and he's got brain-dead waveclear as long as you're not in danger of getting dove (just try instaclearing against Leblanc).
It's just people pick retarded shit against him. Tanky line-ups wreck him, long-range carries make it really hard for him to have an impact, good waveclear make him stall at best, because he's not good at sieging, and in teamfights he's weaker than Azir, Cass, and other tier1 mages. It's just drafting is so unrefined zz
I still fail to see why you would pick Viktor over Xerath or Ziggs if you want the waveclear. And if you don't, what does he bring that something like Azir doesn't? Frankly? In all the times they've used Viktor I've never though "oh that's cool/that's a nicely crafted team comp/this gameplan fits the Viktor pick so well!" without thinking "X champ would do better though".
And he isn't really #2 in a bunch of areas to justify him as the "swis army knife" pick a la Thresh either.
Edit: yup and I stand by that post. Viktor won't threaten a Gragas, Alistar, tank Hecarim, etc. the way Azir or Cass does, and you can't count on him to dive/flank an AP Kog or a Varus like Ahri, Zed or LB would be able to.
Note that I'm not saying I won't listen if ou can argue what makes Viktor a top pick. I'm just saying I fail to see it, and what people most often quote (waveclear and raw damage) isn't near the top level for mages.
On June 20 2015 00:02 Alaric wrote: I still fail to see why you would pick Viktor over Xerath or Ziggs if you want the waveclear. And if you don't, what does he bring that something like Azir doesn't? Frankly? In all the times they've used Viktor I've never though "oh that's cool/that's a nicely crafted team comp/this gameplan fits the Viktor pick so well!" without thinking "X champ would do better though".
And he isn't really #2 in a bunch of areas to justify him as the "swis army knife" pick a la Thresh either.
Edit: yup and I stand by that post. Viktor won't threaten a Gragas, Alistar, tank Hecarim, etc. the way Azir or Cass does, and you can't count on him to dive/flank an AP Kog or a Varus like Ahri, Zed or LB would be able to.
He has the best waveclear in the game for a substantial time once he gets upgraded augment (if its not true for you, your CSing is poor), his zone control is impeccable, he turns into a mini-Cass with Q-LB-Augment and has huge burst midgame. Just watch Faker, good god.
But his burst has limited ranged compared to others, his waveclear is instant but also 1050 range only so it's not like he's overwhelmingly the best, and Q only becomes actually strong around level 13. If you're ready to compare buying Lichbane (you'll also need a CDR slot) and upgrading Q, along with the 525 aa range and his animation, to Cass' damage output, sustain (albeit it's been nerfed since, Viktor started getting picked before that), ~75 range dvantage and how smooth kiting is for her, you grossly overestimate him. Even with Lichbane tanks are still a pain for Viktor, and while Cass doesn't melt them in the midgame she still deals steady amounts of damage.
Sure, Viktor with Lichbane and a few items can one-shot a squishy who didn't buy Banshee or something with EQauto, and that's an awful lot of damage. However, it's still the equivalent of 625 damage, that's very short for a squishy (Cass has Seraph's and possibly Rylai to make up for her natively low HP pool) and I wouldn't call a champion with such risk "optimal".
His good cases are good, but his average and bad case are way below other champions.
On June 20 2015 00:47 Alaric wrote: But his burst has limited ranged compared to others, his waveclear is instant but also 1050 range only so it's not like he's overwhelmingly the best, and Q only becomes actually strong around level 13. If you're ready to compare buying Lichbane (you'll also need a CDR slot) and upgrading Q, along with the 525 aa range and his animation, to Cass' damage output, sustain (albeit it's been nerfed since, Viktor started getting picked before that), ~75 range dvantage and how smooth kiting is for her, you grossly overestimate him. Even with Lichbane tanks are still a pain for Viktor, and while Cass doesn't melt them in the midgame she still deals steady amounts of damage.
Sure, Viktor with Lichbane and a few items can one-shot a squishy who didn't buy Banshee or something with EQauto, and that's an awful lot of damage. However, it's still the equivalent of 625 damage, that's very short for a squishy (Cass has Seraph's and possibly Rylai to make up for her natively low HP pool) and I wouldn't call a champion with such risk "optimal".
His good cases are good, but his average and bad case are way below other champions.
There's reasons why Viktor is a staple meta pick right now and Ziggs and Xerath aren't. You might not like them, but they do exist.
On June 20 2015 00:47 Alaric wrote: But his burst has limited ranged compared to others, his waveclear is instant but also 1050 range only so it's not like he's overwhelmingly the best, and Q only becomes actually strong around level 13. If you're ready to compare buying Lichbane (you'll also need a CDR slot) and upgrading Q, along with the 525 aa range and his animation, to Cass' damage output, sustain (albeit it's been nerfed since, Viktor started getting picked before that), ~75 range dvantage and how smooth kiting is for her, you grossly overestimate him. Even with Lichbane tanks are still a pain for Viktor, and while Cass doesn't melt them in the midgame she still deals steady amounts of damage.
Sure, Viktor with Lichbane and a few items can one-shot a squishy who didn't buy Banshee or something with EQauto, and that's an awful lot of damage. However, it's still the equivalent of 625 damage, that's very short for a squishy (Cass has Seraph's and possibly Rylai to make up for her natively low HP pool) and I wouldn't call a champion with such risk "optimal".
His good cases are good, but his average and bad case are way below other champions.
There's reasons why Viktor is a staple meta pick right now and Ziggs and Xerath aren't. You might not like them, but they do exist.
Past me would be absolutely giddy to see this statement.
Current me is just like "meh, Azir is so much stronger"
Azir is probably in need of a nerf, he's been tuned for regular players who struggle with his unique style and his sort of clunkiness. In the hands of a pro who knows how to use him, he's kinda too good.
On June 20 2015 01:17 ticklishmusic wrote: Azir is probably in need of a nerf, he's been tuned for regular players who struggle with his unique style and his sort of clunkiness. In the hands of a pro who knows how to use him, he's kinda too good.
I don't disagree, although he still has some weird clunkiness to him occasionally. One of the more notable quirks is trying to auto attack when a sand soldier is about to die, Azir starts the AA animation as the soldier dies, so he gets kinda stuck there, but nothing happens.
I'm still figuring out all of his weird ranges, but he is really strong right now.
Also east coast ping makes WEQ fancy combo hard, but I'm getting better at it.
On June 20 2015 01:17 ticklishmusic wrote: Azir is probably in need of a nerf, he's been tuned for regular players who struggle with his unique style and his sort of clunkiness. In the hands of a pro who knows how to use him, he's kinda too good.
I don't disagree, although he still has some weird clunkiness to him occasionally. One of the more notable quirks is trying to auto attack when a sand soldier is about to die, Azir starts the AA animation as the soldier dies, so he gets kinda stuck there, but nothing happens.
I'm still figuring out all of his weird ranges, but he is really strong right now.
Also east coast ping makes WEQ fancy combo hard, but I'm getting better at it.
if you don't get the combo off just say "it's intended behavior" :>
On June 20 2015 01:17 ticklishmusic wrote: Azir is probably in need of a nerf, he's been tuned for regular players who struggle with his unique style and his sort of clunkiness. In the hands of a pro who knows how to use him, he's kinda too good.
the biggest issue i have with azir is how basically free his lane harass is. soldiers have too much reach and not enough way to get around and punish
I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff.
See "there are reasons even if you don't like them" isn't "there are reasons, here's which ones".
He's got stronger wave clear than Azir, LB, Cass and arguably Ekko (they clear fine actually, he does push faster though), weaker than Varus, but even if that was the case you need much more than that to be a top pick. And he loses to Ekko, Cass, Azir, etc. in damage. He's got poke on paper, but Varus beats him there and it's on a long cd + high cost, etc. I don't see anywhere where I wouldn't think "oh hey X is doing better than him", 'cept for "poke who can teamfight" since caster Varus' is weak at teamfighting, but I don't think his poke is strong enough compared to how inferior his damage output/teamfighting range is (and if you watch, they don't poke/siege with Viktor, they try to fight). Azir's superior in zone control too.
I don't lane vs Azir often so I dunno how too strong or versatile his laning is (as it's supposed to be weak) but my issue is with the nuking power of Q over a main role of positioning. Azir shouldn't deal about half your HP (unless you stacked MR) with Q + 2 free autos (due to the slow) by 2 soldiers, especially when he only has 3 big items. Reward him for positioning well and being able to keep autoing people, not for casting Q on someone in range on cd.
On June 20 2015 01:59 Kinie wrote: I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff.
That would make it the most convoluted skill in LoL
On June 20 2015 01:59 Kinie wrote: I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff.
That would make it the most convoluted skill in LoL
Yeah, I guess you're right. Who would want to pick the 2nd best poke mage/zone control that can also teamfight well? Why wouldn't I pick something that is better in one of those categories instead of a champion that's superior in at least two of them?
On top of that Viktor is easy to hit his powerspike on because unlike Azir, Cass, and Varus you don't need to wait on Tears to stack or concerning more niche picks like Kass and Ryze to wait on RoA. Not to mention Ekko is difficult to even take advantage of properly as a singular champion, let alone work properly with as a team.
And about half the map is definitely not a bunch of hallways that he can fish in a barrel, due to vector targeting, better than arguably all but a single champion in the entire game.
Alaric, no one disagrees that Azir is a strong pick, but Viktor is clearly 1b to his 1a right now, and you are blind to this for unknown reasons. The only plausible one I can see is that you don't know about augment upgrades.
On June 20 2015 01:59 Kinie wrote: I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff.
That would make it the most convoluted skill in LoL
I don't see why it would be so convoluted. Azir summons a sand soldier, it has X amount of health and can still do everything the current sand soldiers do. The lane opponent can:
1. Walk around and avoid the soldier's AA range and try to continue CSing or pressuring Azir.
2. Kill the soldier so they can go back to CSing without fear of getting damaged or all-ined, but the slow field discourages them from going all-in themselves as Azir walks back.
3. Go all-in anyway and see if they can blow up Azir before dying or jungler/support intervention.
Compare that to now, where all the lane opponent can do is 1 or 3, which leaves Azir pretty safe to farm, apply pressure, threaten an all-in himself, or even go roam to help with dragon or a turret dive.
And once lane phase ends and teams start grouping up for sieges/fights it nerfs his potential damage he can deal in a team fight, or at least forces him to think about when to throw a soldier out instead of now where he just throws 1 or 2 out and pressures the enemy team off an objective. It allows for more counterplay on both sides (take down the soldiers to stop the harass for the enemy side, try and use the soldiers' slow field to let your dive/siege be more threatening/damaging).
On June 20 2015 01:59 Kinie wrote: I am not an Azir player so I can't give a definitive suggestion, but this is what iI think they can do to nerf Azir.
Change how the sand soldiers work and make them have a health bar (minions, monsters and champs can still walk through one) that gets bigger the more points you put iinto the W, and has additional scaling based upon Azir's bonus HP. If the soldier dies they leave behind a slow area the size of the soldier's AA range, where the circle lasts for 1.5s and gives a scaling slow debuff.
That would make it the most convoluted skill in LoL
...so?
Considering how dumb stuff like ekko's w and yasuo passive, do we really need more and more multifaceted abilities?
I've only started playing Malphite since the change to his W, but in his bad matchups I just go full cheesedog, grab 3x Doran's Ring and max Q so I can bully them around thanks to his Doran's empowered passive and the infinite mana since you just cs by lasthitting, you can a really high kill potential at level 6 with the additional AP too. Not sure if it's actually a good strategy but at least it works in high plat/low diamond MMR. lol
On June 20 2015 00:02 Alaric wrote: I still fail to see why you would pick Viktor over Xerath or Ziggs if you want the waveclear.
Its because Viktor's lategame potential is much higher than Xerath or Ziggs. His combo damage is higher, his sustained damage is higher. His AoE damage is higher. He can do damage through an enemy team [unlike ziggs]. All of these things are super essential in the tank meta.
His weakness are mobility, necessity of farm, and skill both conceptually, and mechanically.
His numbers bear this out. He has a 49.12% win rate plat+. His win rate dips at 35-40 minutes but climbs back 40+ (i am guessing his early win%'s are high because its hard to beat him early, thus pushing losing games longer). His win rate increases significantly as people play him more.
This makes him a bad soloqueue champion because its a lot harder to play a farm game and then be effective in team fights when you don't have much communication. But it makes him an excellent competitive pick. Because competitive players
1) Can farm like nothing. Accelerating the point where Viktor becomes so much stronger than other picks
2) Can communicate much more efficiently, and are less prone to making the mistakes which can exploit viktor's lack of mobility (especially pre Q augment)
3) Team fight better, and so are much better at using his abilities well.
Ziggs sustained damage is pretty crazy in team fights, and he doesn't need 'as ideal' of a situation to get all of his damage out.
I mean I think both are good in certain situations (I'm also not sure what doing damage thru the enemy team is supposed to mean since Ziggs has 4 aoe skills.) I just find your arguments to be iffy.
for me the biggest difference between the two is 1v1 / 100-0 potential, in team fights it's a wash at best if not in favor of Ziggs and yet you highlight this?
*in case you are referring to the fact you can body block ziggs Q, you cannot do this from point blank range, meaning body blocking Ziggs spells puts you at an ideal range for both Ziggs and his adc to do damage to you assuming you are melee as most tanks are.
On June 20 2015 07:23 Slusher wrote: Ziggs sustained damage is pretty crazy in team fights, and he doesn't need 'as ideal' of a situation to get all of his damage out.
I mean I think both are good in certain situations (I'm also not sure what doing damage thru the enemy team is supposed to mean since Ziggs has 4 aoe skills.) I just find your arguments to be iffy.
for me the biggest difference between the two is 1v1 / 100-0 potential, in team fights it's a wash at best if not in favor of Ziggs and yet you highlight this?
*in case you are referring to the fact you can body block ziggs Q, you cannot do this from point blank range, meaning body blocking Ziggs spells puts you at an ideal range for both Ziggs and his adc to do damage to you assuming you are melee as most tanks are.
Zigg's primary source of damage is his Q, which will pop when it hits a tank instead of getting to the backline.
Vitkor's ult alone nearly does more damage than the entirety of Ziggs or Zerath's kit. It is not right to say they do more damage than Viktor in team fights
On June 20 2015 07:23 Slusher wrote: Ziggs sustained damage is pretty crazy in team fights, and he doesn't need 'as ideal' of a situation to get all of his damage out.
I mean I think both are good in certain situations (I'm also not sure what doing damage thru the enemy team is supposed to mean since Ziggs has 4 aoe skills.) I just find your arguments to be iffy.
for me the biggest difference between the two is 1v1 / 100-0 potential, in team fights it's a wash at best if not in favor of Ziggs and yet you highlight this?
*in case you are referring to the fact you can body block ziggs Q, you cannot do this from point blank range, meaning body blocking Ziggs spells puts you at an ideal range for both Ziggs and his adc to do damage to you assuming you are melee as most tanks are.
Zigg's primary source of damage is his Q, which will pop when it hits a tank instead of getting to the backline.
and if you are doing this his adc is taking 0 damage.
On June 20 2015 07:33 Goumindong wrote: Vitkor's ult alone nearly does more damage than the entirety of Ziggs or Zerath's kit. It is not right to say they do more damage than Viktor in team fights
I also covered this, Ziggs doesn't need nearly as an ideal of a situation to get his full damage out
On June 20 2015 07:23 Slusher wrote: Ziggs sustained damage is pretty crazy in team fights, and he doesn't need 'as ideal' of a situation to get all of his damage out.
I mean I think both are good in certain situations (I'm also not sure what doing damage thru the enemy team is supposed to mean since Ziggs has 4 aoe skills.) I just find your arguments to be iffy.
for me the biggest difference between the two is 1v1 / 100-0 potential, in team fights it's a wash at best if not in favor of Ziggs and yet you highlight this?
*in case you are referring to the fact you can body block ziggs Q, you cannot do this from point blank range, meaning body blocking Ziggs spells puts you at an ideal range for both Ziggs and his adc to do damage to you assuming you are melee as most tanks are.
Zigg's primary source of damage is his Q, which will pop when it hits a tank instead of getting to the backline.
and if you are doing this his adc is taking 0 damage.
And you also don't need to actively be doing it. If Ziggs is such a damage threat and a tank is able to body block most of his damage inadvertently, I don't see an issue.
On June 20 2015 07:33 Goumindong wrote: Vitkor's ult alone nearly does more damage than the entirety of Ziggs or Zerath's kit. It is not right to say they do more damage than Viktor in team fights
I also covered this, Ziggs doesn't need nearly as an ideal of a situation to get his full damage out
Sure. Which is why Ziggs isn't as good as Viktor is in competitive.
Yeah sure if you manage to hit your ult on 5 people and keep it there for 7 seconds. :') Especially if they pick long range stuff, or mobile like Kalista.
I mean technically Ziggs' non-blockable Q (850 range) is farther than Viktor's initial cast range on his ult, so...
On June 20 2015 07:33 Goumindong wrote: Vitkor's ult alone nearly does more damage than the entirety of Ziggs or Zerath's kit. It is not right to say they do more damage than Viktor in team fights
On June 20 2015 11:26 Chocolate wrote: how2 lane against yasuo
got fucked by him twice now, latest time it was 2v1 top and he still won
Avoid level 1 and 2. His e fucking hurts when it stacks. If ranged harass out his shield at level 3 with a single auto, then trade when shield is down.
On June 20 2015 11:26 Chocolate wrote: how2 lane against yasuo
got fucked by him twice now, latest time it was 2v1 top and he still won
My counter pick to Yasuo is Riven since she doesn't even need her 2nd active or her ult to kill Yasuo at level 6 but also she got plenty of kill pressure pre level 6 also vs Yasuo. Also on any other champion just survive past level 2 vs Yasuo when he will likely try to all in you.
On June 20 2015 11:26 Chocolate wrote: how2 lane against yasuo
got fucked by him twice now, latest time it was 2v1 top and he still won
My counter pick to Yasuo is Riven since she doesn't even need her 2nd active or her ult to kill Yasuo at level 6 but also she got plenty of kill pressure pre level 6 also vs Yasuo. Also on any other champion just survive past level 2 vs Yasuo when he will likely try to all in you.
To be fair, Riven's the counter to Yasuo during the laning phase; her Q lets her stay as mobile as him, the W's a good way to stop his E sliding bullshit to begin with, her E is arguably better than his shield passive, and her ulti lets her get reach for the all-in. The main thing with her is to pop the shield first with an AA or the first hit of Q, wait until it's down, THEN go in for a E-W-Q-AA combo before trolololing away with the second and/or third Q. Obviously having ignite on her helps with the all-ins but it's not required.
It really only turns around in Yasuo's favor once he hits the crit threshold and gets to 90 or 100% crit rate, because at that point he can just 3 shot her and there's not a ton she can do to stop it. She can kite back his hits and try to use the E shield to eat most of the damage (this assumes you max E second), but if he gets more than a couple seconds to stick to her and land a Q-AA-E-AA combo she's probably gonna die.
On June 20 2015 11:26 Chocolate wrote: how2 lane against yasuo
got fucked by him twice now, latest time it was 2v1 top and he still won
Yasuo has a pretty large powerspike level 1+2 as people above have said, but after level 3 he's complete thrash throughout the entire midgame if he doesn't have insane backup or gets fed. A thing you can do is change your skilling orders against him on some champions or just play really safe.
Bruisers in general do really well top, but again, avoid him level 1+2. Playing Garen against him if he's top is just unfair.
On June 20 2015 15:03 kongoline wrote: pretty sure with trinity instead of BC u would be able to duel people too
Yes, but I think BC + BotRK is superior because:
1. BC has 20% CDR which is extremely valuable. Trinity Force has its perks (especially Sheen and the Mana), but BC feels a lot smoother.
2. BotRK provides a slow which Vi really need. Plus it's a lot of attack speed and life steal.
Obviously it's just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt, as always.
You sound like you're describing icebourne gauntlet without ever using the word iceborne gauntlet.
I think BC -> IBG is a fine build too. But I've only tried IBG once and more iterations are needed. In my mind, though, I think the life steal and attack speed is better - which is why I prefer BotRK. Additionally, point-and-click slow + speed up is definitely better than a melee proc slow field.
It's way wider than the article particle, which sucks the first time you play against him, and sucks barely less the following ones. The actual hit box is probably at least as wide as Xerath's Q.
i mean in retrospect TIP adrian got to top 50 NA by heal/ignite feeding every game when he was still playing on the silsol account so anything could happen.
On June 21 2015 10:24 Mensol wrote: Destiny analyzing one of Fabbys Draven game in order to understand the champion better.
what a time to be alive.
Did Destiny get back to Diamond or whatever he was yet?
Considering he just did a casting call for master or challenger player to coach him and in return will promote said coach to his fanbase, he's probably not diamond.
I am not sure auto attack pathing bug still exist or not, I just used vayne A click against LB. Her passive popped and still managed to hit the real 1 before I even realized lol.
On June 21 2015 04:26 kongoline wrote: do u guys think hecarim will be nerfed again? i tried him in jungle and i gotta say i dont want to play any other jungler in soloQ lol
Hecarim is in a strange place. He is really strong but his early mana costs are so high now that you don't see him top much and junglers basically accept that if their first blue gets invaded they are in for a tough/not so fun game.
Once Hecarim gets rolling he is as good as ever but there are so many strong choices that are rarely banned (especially Rek'Sai) that I am not sure Hecarim will draw bandwagon nerfs.
On June 21 2015 08:47 suicideyear wrote: i mean in retrospect TIP adrian got to top 50 NA by heal/ignite feeding every game when he was still playing on the silsol account so anything could happen.
On June 21 2015 10:24 Mensol wrote: Destiny analyzing one of Fabbys Draven game in order to understand the champion better.
what a time to be alive.
Did Destiny get back to Diamond or whatever he was yet?
he's gotten to diamond 3 times I think, and has been demoted back to plat after a losing streak 3 times as well.
I played with Destiny once and have seen him playing on stream. I think his raw mechanics is fine, but sometimes I feel that he plays too aggressively (it's Draven but still) and I couldn't keep up with him.
Hm... it looks like I've been drophacked during promos (up 1-0). Apparently if I close the client to try and reconnect, it'll "end the serie prematurely" and I don't feel like taking chances. So what can I do? Just spam "reconnect" until the game tells me it doesn't find a game rather than "the game has crashed, click to reconnect"?
Nvm we reconnected a few minutes later... save for our mid laner, and their Cho had kept farming meanwhile, obviously not dc'd. And there's nothing about EUW shitting the bed on boards, nor loss prevented, so get fucked me, some cheater took that one from us.
Well the thing has a cooldown, and a long one, so if you force it without committing too much yourself, you can then act during the downtime. Isn't the usefulness limited to net, and maybe illusions to scout, apart from that?
On June 22 2015 02:15 Alaric wrote: Well the thing has a cooldown, and a long one, so if you force it without committing too much yourself, you can then act during the downtime. Isn't the usefulness limited to net, and maybe illusions to scout, apart from that?
I won't call minute cooldown at 16 as long, even without octarine core.
On June 21 2015 08:47 suicideyear wrote: i mean in retrospect TIP adrian got to top 50 NA by heal/ignite feeding every game when he was still playing on the silsol account so anything could happen.
w8w8w8w8w8
silsol = adrian?
iirc silsol was 2 people, adrian would play on the account and get it to top 50 where the other guy would play heal/ignite and troll because he was shit compared to the elo the account was at
On June 21 2015 08:47 suicideyear wrote: i mean in retrospect TIP adrian got to top 50 NA by heal/ignite feeding every game when he was still playing on the silsol account so anything could happen.
w8w8w8w8w8
silsol = adrian?
iirc silsol was 2 people, adrian would play on the account and get it to top 50 where the other guy would play heal/ignite and troll because he was shit compared to the elo the account was at
holy shit, this is hilarious.
still doesn't explain how he would go 0-20 in lane, and still manage to make a play at 30 minute mark to win his team the games. unless the troll logged out of the game, and adrian logged in from another area after a terrible laning phase.
On June 21 2015 08:47 suicideyear wrote: i mean in retrospect TIP adrian got to top 50 NA by heal/ignite feeding every game when he was still playing on the silsol account so anything could happen.
w8w8w8w8w8
silsol = adrian?
iirc silsol was 2 people, adrian would play on the account and get it to top 50 where the other guy would play heal/ignite and troll because he was shit compared to the elo the account was at
holy shit, this is hilarious.
still doesn't explain how he would go 0-20 in lane, and still manage to make a play at 30 minute mark to win his team the games. unless the troll logged out of the game, and adrian logged in from another area after a terrible laning phase.
Maybe they lived together.
LOL.
EDIT: Saintvicious has been carrying so hard recently on Support Shen.
Its almost backwards to the current meta, he's been snowballing top so hard. lol. Support Shen; Good or Troll? Has anyone tried it recently? Saint has had like 85% kill participation on him for like the last 6 games. 68% winrate in 25 games... not bad.
Why should support Shen ever be bad? His kit is definitely very supportish, the only question is if the numbers are good enough to be viable with less items
Shen support was legit. My friend on EUW that was dia1-master played a lot of Shen support and it worked pretty well. But that was 2 patches ago, so things changed a bit.
On June 22 2015 20:39 739 wrote: Shen support was legit. My friend on EUW that was dia1-master played a lot of Shen support and it worked pretty well. But that was 2 patches ago, so things changed a bit.
Shen has only been buffed while most others have been nerfed since then, shouldn't it only be better than before for him in botlane? Love playing Shen but have no experience with him as support, if you could get some words of experience from your buddy I'd love to hear 'em.
Why would you play Shen botlane? What can he do botlane that say Leona can't do better? I can see why Shen toplane can be good but botlane just seems outclassed.
On June 22 2015 22:28 gobbledydook wrote: Why would you play Shen botlane? What can he do botlane that say Leona can't do better? I can see why Shen toplane can be good but botlane just seems outclassed.
Based on what iCanada said I think the point is to snowball the other lanes instead of bottom.
Shen has pretty good sustain for him + his carry, his CC is on one spell, pretty decent burst. Also, he's manaless. If you get ahead, you've got your ult to snowball other lanes. He's super annoying with face of the mountain. Synergizes insanely well with AD's who have good wave control abilities.
And there's the old "gee I've never seen this guy as support so lemme play like I'm in Bronze" effect.
On June 22 2015 22:28 gobbledydook wrote: Why would you play Shen botlane? What can he do botlane that say Leona can't do better? I can see why Shen toplane can be good but botlane just seems outclassed.
Based on what iCanada said I think the point is to snowball the other lanes instead of bottom.
why not pick soraka she does the same thing but is strong in lane
On June 22 2015 22:28 gobbledydook wrote: Why would you play Shen botlane? What can he do botlane that say Leona can't do better? I can see why Shen toplane can be good but botlane just seems outclassed.
Based on what iCanada said I think the point is to snowball the other lanes instead of bottom.
why not pick soraka she does the same thing but is strong in lane
There's a big difference between a one-off global heal and teleporting to a lane to shield, bring CC, and deal damage.
On June 22 2015 22:28 gobbledydook wrote: Why would you play Shen botlane? What can he do botlane that say Leona can't do better? I can see why Shen toplane can be good but botlane just seems outclassed.
Based on what iCanada said I think the point is to snowball the other lanes instead of bottom.
why not pick soraka she does the same thing but is strong in lane
There's a big difference between a one-off global heal and teleporting to a lane to shield, bring CC, and deal damage.
chances are the enemy bot lane will just all in your ad or cancel it if you are in lane also is stronger in ganks/counterganks
On June 22 2015 22:28 gobbledydook wrote: Why would you play Shen botlane? What can he do botlane that say Leona can't do better? I can see why Shen toplane can be good but botlane just seems outclassed.
Based on what iCanada said I think the point is to snowball the other lanes instead of bottom.
why not pick soraka she does the same thing but is strong in lane
There's a big difference between a one-off global heal and teleporting to a lane to shield, bring CC, and deal damage.
chances are the enemy bot lane will just all in your ad or cancel it if you are in lane also is stronger in ganks/counterganks
his sustain isn't really that great for himself, he can't sustain from range if he isn't cs'ing, unless you count timing his shield correctly sustain then I guess sorta.
certainly it seems not bad, if nothing else because face of the mountain is like, perfect for him.
On June 23 2015 01:41 ticklishmusic wrote: His sustain isn't bad, you just Q the siege minions and use Targon's execute. The combo gives you and your AD like 100 hp for no cost.
I have been wrecked by Shen support before. He is actually pretty strong as far as i can tell.
His Q is good lane harass and while its kind of poor sustain, its consistent and augmented by his shield. Because Q is targeted and does not cost mana he can use it on cooldown against enemy champions. The harass pattern is very similar to early Janna shield harass, except that instead of auto attacking you're pressing Q. This is especially potent against melee's who don't have shields, or champions dependent on long CD/skillshots. Which is basically the entire support roster atm besides Nautilus. But Shen should out-sustain nautilus(not sure who wins if naut all-ins the shen who Q's him but i suspect its a bad matchup for Shen
After laning phase is over his ultimate means that he is always in a position to support his ADC. This lets your AD or Top Lane split, giving your team the option of forcing a 2v1 or a 5v4 depending on the port priority.
On June 22 2015 22:56 ticklishmusic wrote: Shen has pretty good sustain for him + his carry, his CC is on one spell, pretty decent burst. Also, he's manaless. If you get ahead, you've got your ult to snowball other lanes. He's super annoying with face of the mountain. Synergizes insanely well with AD's who have good wave control abilities.
And there's the old "gee I've never seen this guy as support so lemme play like I'm in Bronze" effect.
Can't speak for higher elos but Shen support is awesome in bronze xD I'm assuming it's because people don't know how to play against him and get caught off guard by your burst/sustain. Pretty much every time I have a competent adc its easy to get a kill or two up on them pre 6. FotM + sunfire + spirit visage are all pretty much perfect for his passive and/or Q and you just become more annoying/tanky as the game goes on.
What the fuck is wrong with people drophacking, is it that easy to do ?! Is it so cheap to buy ? I don't know about you guys but it seems to have become so common on EUW around mid diamond.
You get the ace+baron and then COINCIDENCE everyone disconnects, can't reconnect, game disappears from history and no lp gain/loss. I mean the guys don't even try to act cute or something they just flat out disconnect you after the big obvious ace before the victorious push.... I wouldn't even care about the LP but you lose so much time since you can't reconnect or start a new game... damn... sorry for the rant
On June 23 2015 05:23 RouaF wrote: What the fuck is wrong with people drophacking, is it that easy to do ?! Is it so cheap to buy ? I don't know about you guys but it seems to have become so common on EUW around mid diamond.
You get the ace+baron and then COINCIDENCE everyone disconnects, can't reconnect, game disappears from history and no lp gain/loss. I mean the guys don't even try to act cute or something they just flat out disconnect you after the big obvious ace before the victorious push.... I wouldn't even care about the LP but you lose so much time since you can't reconnect or start a new game... damn... sorry for the rant
That's pretty ridiculous. If I still played seriously I'd easily quit over that (it's literally why I quit War3 back in the day, the first disconnect hack came out).
On June 23 2015 05:40 cLutZ wrote: Is the game totally disappearing an artifact of their client basically being two separate entities?
Nope, that's a ddos kicking everybody from the game. Since nobody is playing the server drops the game. Same way if you make a custom game by yourself and then leave it the game poofs.
On June 23 2015 05:40 cLutZ wrote: Is the game totally disappearing an artifact of their client basically being two separate entities?
Nope, that's a ddos kicking everybody from the game. Since nobody is playing the server drops the game. Same way if you make a custom game by yourself and then leave it the game poofs.
How does the game get recorded normally?
Does it only register a game when the postgame lobby opens?
On June 23 2015 05:40 cLutZ wrote: Is the game totally disappearing an artifact of their client basically being two separate entities?
Nope, that's a ddos kicking everybody from the game. Since nobody is playing the server drops the game. Same way if you make a custom game by yourself and then leave it the game poofs.
How does the game get recorded normally?
Does it only register a game when the postgame lobby opens?
On June 23 2015 05:40 cLutZ wrote: Is the game totally disappearing an artifact of their client basically being two separate entities?
Nope, that's a ddos kicking everybody from the game. Since nobody is playing the server drops the game. Same way if you make a custom game by yourself and then leave it the game poofs.
How does the game get recorded normally?
Does it only register a game when the postgame lobby opens?
On June 23 2015 05:35 Seuss wrote: That's pretty ridiculous. If I still played seriously I'd easily quit over that (it's literally why I quit War3 back in the day, the first disconnect hack came out).
honestly with all the scripters/drophackers if i had something else to do i wouldnt be playing league
On June 23 2015 05:35 Seuss wrote: That's pretty ridiculous. If I still played seriously I'd easily quit over that (it's literally why I quit War3 back in the day, the first disconnect hack came out).
honestly with all the scripters/drophackers if i had something else to do i wouldnt be playing league
If only we had a life... But in absence of that, better play League.
On June 23 2015 05:40 cLutZ wrote: Is the game totally disappearing an artifact of their client basically being two separate entities?
Nope, that's a ddos kicking everybody from the game. Since nobody is playing the server drops the game. Same way if you make a custom game by yourself and then leave it the game poofs.
How does the game get recorded normally?
Does it only register a game when the postgame lobby opens?
When a nexus goes boom, I would expect.
Doesn't sound like a great idea.
Better then the server holding a ton of active games with nobody playing them and having one side win because #winions.
On June 23 2015 05:40 cLutZ wrote: Is the game totally disappearing an artifact of their client basically being two separate entities?
Nope, that's a ddos kicking everybody from the game. Since nobody is playing the server drops the game. Same way if you make a custom game by yourself and then leave it the game poofs.
How does the game get recorded normally?
Does it only register a game when the postgame lobby opens?
When a nexus goes boom, I would expect.
Doesn't sound like a great idea.
Better then the server holding a ton of active games with nobody playing them and having one side win because #winions.
Well they could pause the game... You know like of a player DCs in StarCraft, or like they do in lcs.
On June 23 2015 05:40 cLutZ wrote: Is the game totally disappearing an artifact of their client basically being two separate entities?
Nope, that's a ddos kicking everybody from the game. Since nobody is playing the server drops the game. Same way if you make a custom game by yourself and then leave it the game poofs.
How does the game get recorded normally?
Does it only register a game when the postgame lobby opens?
When a nexus goes boom, I would expect.
Doesn't sound like a great idea.
Better then the server holding a ton of active games with nobody playing them and having one side win because #winions.
Well they could pause the game... You know like of a player DCs in StarCraft, or like they do in lcs.
The obnoxious thing is that it sounds like Riot cannot do anything against it.
First it is hard to investigate because the game disappears from match history and few people take the time to screenshot the teams+open a support ticket.
Even if you do, there are 10 people in the game, anyone of them could be drop hacking (even if obviously there's a high chance the cheater is on the losing team and the guy opening the ticket is innocent).
Riot support just tells you that they have forwarded everything to the investigation team but they can't give you any details about if anyone will get punished.
Even if somehow the guy gets banned he can just create an other account, riot has already stated that they ban accounts and not people.
The only solution would be tackling the problem at its root : server side.
I mean there's no way these cheating kids have thousands of botnets on their hands so they are probably paying for some software with bots behind it, these could be blocked by riot's security infrastructure before reaching their servers.
A more strict method would be to allow only the 10 ip addresses from the start of the game to ever connect to that game's server, that would cause problems for people rebooting their routers during the game and getting an other ip address though... so I can see why they are not doing it.
I'm really curious as to what riot is doing about this, it seems like they are just hoping that it doesn't grow too much and affects only a small % of the playerbase so it doesn't become a "real" problem for them.
Part of the problem as well is that there's a bunch of people who don't even know that a drophack exists, and when the game just goes belly-up they assume it's one of the myriad of bugs we've all seen over the time we've played league. Up to about diamond league it doesn't happen much apparantly, and I have 2 friends in d1 who had no idea what it was untill I duo'd with them a few times, so it seems 'localized' around mid/low diamond. This drops the number of reports even further.
Pushing out information on the hack would probably only create more people who do it, so it's a no-win situation. I don't know what they can do about it on the coding end but I guess it's not all that simple.
On June 23 2015 16:03 cLutZ wrote: Sounds like I just made DDOSing less advantageous
It'd have the sideeffect of easily bogging down the gameserver with tons of unfinished games and make higher Elo unplayable since a lot of people could be 'locked' up in a game rather than just queuing up again.
On June 21 2015 14:50 MagnusWolf wrote: Im in there too, just plat5 atm T_T
\o/
edit - oh god this was old, uhhh league content...
Just played against Varus mid for the first time. It was just annoying as hell, and neither I nor jungler had hard CC, so he just ghosted away any time there was danger.
On June 23 2015 20:08 RouaF wrote: The obnoxious thing is that it sounds like Riot cannot do anything against it.
First it is hard to investigate because the game disappears from match history and few people take the time to screenshot the teams+open a support ticket.
Even if you do, there are 10 people in the game, anyone of them could be drop hacking (even if obviously there's a high chance the cheater is on the losing team and the guy opening the ticket is innocent).
Riot support just tells you that they have forwarded everything to the investigation team but they can't give you any details about if anyone will get punished.
Even if somehow the guy gets banned he can just create an other account, riot has already stated that they ban accounts and not people.
The only solution would be tackling the problem at its root : server side.
I mean there's no way these cheating kids have thousands of botnets on their hands so they are probably paying for some software with bots behind it, these could be blocked by riot's security infrastructure before reaching their servers.
A more strict method would be to allow only the 10 ip addresses from the start of the game to ever connect to that game's server, that would cause problems for people rebooting their routers during the game and getting an other ip address though... so I can see why they are not doing it.
I'm really curious as to what riot is doing about this, it seems like they are just hoping that it doesn't grow too much and affects only a small % of the playerbase so it doesn't become a "real" problem for them.
You have to be crazy to think dropped games are foreverly lost with no records at all.
On June 21 2015 14:50 MagnusWolf wrote: Im in there too, just plat5 atm T_T
\o/
edit - oh god this was old, uhhh league content...
Just played against Varus mid for the first time. It was just annoying as hell, and neither I nor jungler had hard CC, so he just ghosted away any time there was danger.
Yesterday I played as varus mid and it was hilarious. Bot lane was absolutely trash so vayne got super fed and ended the game with 30 kills or something. But they had like zero siege so when they tried to take tier 2 mid or inhib turret I just poked the entire team down until vayne was left pretty much by herself so we could 5 man her. We actually won the game because my poke was too stronk lol
So I want to pick up toplane. Been a jungle/support main for like... 4 years, highest ranking D3. What to do? Use a smurf and spam ranked games top? I did pretty good with Lulu top when that was a thing, and I can play Garen and Cho.
Truth is riot just dont give a shit about individual cases.Have sent replays/screenshots of people so many times already and all of them are still playing daily.
It's entirely possible that Riot is pulling a Blizzard and is collecting information to do a mass banning once they have a fix for the problem. I hope that's the case but only Riot knows.
On June 24 2015 01:59 ticklishmusic wrote: So I want to pick up toplane. Been a jungle/support main for like... 4 years, highest ranking D3. What to do? Use a smurf and spam ranked games top? I did pretty good with Lulu top when that was a thing, and I can play Garen and Cho.
I don't think a particular champ matters, you are diamond, most likely you have the mechanics , you have to pick whatever you are comfortable with and learn the dynamics of the lane, match ups, trades, timings etc. Playing on a way lower smurf won't help you with and overall smurfing helps you to learn a champ, if you want to learn a lane at your elo, then you gotta tank it with the same mmr
On June 24 2015 02:32 Seuss wrote: It's entirely possible that Riot is pulling a Blizzard and is collecting information to do a mass banning once they have a fix for the problem. I hope that's the case but only Riot knows.
On June 24 2015 02:32 Seuss wrote: It's entirely possible that Riot is pulling a Blizzard and is collecting information to do a mass banning once they have a fix for the problem. I hope that's the case but only Riot knows.
Its also likely that the problem is simply hard [not necessarily in the mathematical sense, but maybe] and so they haven't solved it yet.
On June 23 2015 16:03 cLutZ wrote: Sounds like I just made DDOSing less advantageous
It'd have the sideeffect of easily bogging down the gameserver with tons of unfinished games and make higher Elo unplayable since a lot of people could be 'locked' up in a game rather than just queuing up again.
But that is the advantage. The DDOSer cannot go on to his next game, and once you sense a drophack (more than X players leaving a game within 1 min), then you can monitor that game and immediately flag all those players. Its unclear if they have the information from the client to bust people, so they need to amass tons of trend information to figure out if a person is DDOSing or is simply a victim of it very often.
I just saw new champion's abilities, is riot not afraid of griefing anymore? I though they were against skills interacting with teammates? I don't want to have trolls on this champ in soloq...
On June 24 2015 03:33 Chemiczny84 wrote: I just saw new champion's abilities, is riot not afraid of griefing anymore? I though they were against skills interacting with teammates? I don't want to have trolls on this champ in soloq...
Hey, it was right there in the teaser. If he deposits you in the enemy fountain you're the fool for jumping in.
On June 24 2015 03:34 wei2coolman wrote: this three on hit ability bullshit has got to fucking stop, it's so silly.
lol, the amount of griefing possibility with this new champ is endless.
In this case the 3 hit mechanic actually makes sense though, on other champs it just felt thrown on to give them more damage / power for the hell of it.
Like Ekko really didn't need his and it didn't do much for the champ.
His W can eat his ally without asking, but the ally can decide to jump on if Tahm's running toward the enemy team. Also, Bard's ult. Yes, Riot has finally decided to say "screw it" to griefing as an hindrance to design.
That Thick Skin mechanic is the most broken part of his kit I'd say, per design: that's an absurd amount of sustain, and it's non-conditional. The shield you can choose when to activate, so either you regen a bunch, or it looks like you'll die so you activate it at the last time possible.
W seems absurd damage-wise when you see what was left of Twitch's health, lost almost half of it, but that's a pure number thing that's easier to tune.
I'm usually not a huge fan of blizzard's champions from a visual perspective but regardless of how his abilities are he looks totally awesome.
okay I don't care if he's balanced this is totally awesome.
doesn't look like that great of a support because of no poke and not great engage (without 3 attacks of course). of course he might have so much sustain and tankiness that that compensates. i guess as a passive support he might be good but it all depends on his numers. w looks crazy though. eat someone and throw them out next to your turret
On June 24 2015 03:48 Alaric wrote: His W can eat his ally without asking, but the ally can decide to jump on if Tahm's running toward the enemy team. Also, Bard's ult. Yes, Riot has finally decided to say "screw it" to griefing as an hindrance to design.
That Thick Skin mechanic is the most broken part of his kit I'd say, per design: that's an absurd amount of sustain, and it's non-conditional. The shield you can choose when to activate, so either you regen a bunch, or it looks like you'll die so you activate it at the last time possible.
W seems absurd damage-wise when you see what was left of Twitch's health, lost almost half of it, but that's a pure number thing that's easier to tune.
I was hoping riot would make a sludge bleacher type champ in league. Kit looks really good don't know if he will be a better top lane or jungle but looks like potential for both
On June 23 2015 16:03 cLutZ wrote: Sounds like I just made DDOSing less advantageous
It'd have the sideeffect of easily bogging down the gameserver with tons of unfinished games and make higher Elo unplayable since a lot of people could be 'locked' up in a game rather than just queuing up again.
But that is the advantage. The DDOSer cannot go on to his next game, and once you sense a drophack (more than X players leaving a game within 1 min), then you can monitor that game and immediately flag all those players. Its unclear if they have the information from the client to bust people, so they need to amass tons of trend information to figure out if a person is DDOSing or is simply a victim of it very often.
Locking up 9 innocent players until a Rioter looks into that specific game is not exactly a good idea if you want to keep your users happy.
Holy crap I'm fairly impressed by this Tahm Kench kit. Riot seems to be loosening up their design choices without giving him every ridiculous mechanic in the world.
All the people upvoting and whining because Ahri's Charm resets blue and makes it take longer to kill. Just... don't charm it? It doesn't deal that much damage and doesn't have the damage amp. either anyway.
I remember being hyped by his Q poke, and the sheer effect of a good Flash-ult when I started playing, bit before s2. Now whenever I pick him it's the resilience from some AP and a maxed Bulwark that makes me laugh my ass off, punching people and throwing a spell with whatever little mana I can muster while kiting to my base.
Lux's change on E is annoying though (on top of the radius increase, that's a 36% surface increase, it's huge—wider than Amumu's ult pre-nerf). Not as much as how Ziggs' resilience to gank went up when they did it to him (because if you time E before a cc/gap closer would come, you can negate both thanks to the "auto cast"), but still, I'm not a fan of these.
On June 24 2015 05:37 Alaric wrote: When were you a Galio player?
I remember being hyped by his Q poke, and the sheer effect of a good Flash-ult when I started playing, bit before s2. Now whenever I pick him it's the resilience from some AP and a maxed Bulwark that makes me laugh my ass off, punching people and throwing a spell with whatever little mana I can muster while kiting to my base.
Lux's change on E is annoying though (on top of the radius increase, that's a 36% surface increase, it's huge—wider than Amumu's ult pre-nerf). Not as much as how Ziggs' resilience to gank went up when they did it to him (because if you time E before a cc/gap closer would come, you can negate both thanks to the "auto cast"), but still, I'm not a fan of these.
I have always been a huge Galio advocate. Bulwark is amazingly good. You just have to not be stupid with Udyr around.
On June 23 2015 16:03 cLutZ wrote: Sounds like I just made DDOSing less advantageous
It'd have the sideeffect of easily bogging down the gameserver with tons of unfinished games and make higher Elo unplayable since a lot of people could be 'locked' up in a game rather than just queuing up again.
But that is the advantage. The DDOSer cannot go on to his next game, and once you sense a drophack (more than X players leaving a game within 1 min), then you can monitor that game and immediately flag all those players. Its unclear if they have the information from the client to bust people, so they need to amass tons of trend information to figure out if a person is DDOSing or is simply a victim of it very often.
Locking up 9 innocent players until a Rioter looks into that specific game is not exactly a good idea if you want to keep your users happy.
They can reconnect to the game and play it out?
The issue, it seems, is that Riot may not even have a record of dropped games.
On June 24 2015 04:37 Jek wrote: There's 100% going to be a Kappa Tahm skin.
On June 24 2015 03:31 cLutZ wrote:
On June 23 2015 22:08 Jek wrote:
On June 23 2015 16:03 cLutZ wrote: Sounds like I just made DDOSing less advantageous
It'd have the sideeffect of easily bogging down the gameserver with tons of unfinished games and make higher Elo unplayable since a lot of people could be 'locked' up in a game rather than just queuing up again.
But that is the advantage. The DDOSer cannot go on to his next game, and once you sense a drophack (more than X players leaving a game within 1 min), then you can monitor that game and immediately flag all those players. Its unclear if they have the information from the client to bust people, so they need to amass tons of trend information to figure out if a person is DDOSing or is simply a victim of it very often.
Locking up 9 innocent players until a Rioter looks into that specific game is not exactly a good idea if you want to keep your users happy.
They can reconnect to the game and play it out?
The issue, it seems, is that Riot may not even have a record of dropped games.
And the person doing the ddosing can just do it again.
On June 24 2015 04:37 Jek wrote: There's 100% going to be a Kappa Tahm skin.
On June 24 2015 03:31 cLutZ wrote:
On June 23 2015 22:08 Jek wrote:
On June 23 2015 16:03 cLutZ wrote: Sounds like I just made DDOSing less advantageous
It'd have the sideeffect of easily bogging down the gameserver with tons of unfinished games and make higher Elo unplayable since a lot of people could be 'locked' up in a game rather than just queuing up again.
But that is the advantage. The DDOSer cannot go on to his next game, and once you sense a drophack (more than X players leaving a game within 1 min), then you can monitor that game and immediately flag all those players. Its unclear if they have the information from the client to bust people, so they need to amass tons of trend information to figure out if a person is DDOSing or is simply a victim of it very often.
Locking up 9 innocent players until a Rioter looks into that specific game is not exactly a good idea if you want to keep your users happy.
They can reconnect to the game and play it out?
The issue, it seems, is that Riot may not even have a record of dropped games.
And the person doing the ddosing can just do it again.
Then you have just created another instance of infraction (that you should be automatically monitoring) which cuts down on the time it takes to single out the ddoser.
On June 24 2015 04:37 Jek wrote: There's 100% going to be a Kappa Tahm skin.
On June 24 2015 03:31 cLutZ wrote:
On June 23 2015 22:08 Jek wrote:
On June 23 2015 16:03 cLutZ wrote: Sounds like I just made DDOSing less advantageous
It'd have the sideeffect of easily bogging down the gameserver with tons of unfinished games and make higher Elo unplayable since a lot of people could be 'locked' up in a game rather than just queuing up again.
But that is the advantage. The DDOSer cannot go on to his next game, and once you sense a drophack (more than X players leaving a game within 1 min), then you can monitor that game and immediately flag all those players. Its unclear if they have the information from the client to bust people, so they need to amass tons of trend information to figure out if a person is DDOSing or is simply a victim of it very often.
Locking up 9 innocent players until a Rioter looks into that specific game is not exactly a good idea if you want to keep your users happy.
They can reconnect to the game and play it out?
The issue, it seems, is that Riot may not even have a record of dropped games.
And the person doing the ddosing can just do it again.
Then you have just created another instance of infraction (that you should be automatically monitoring) which cuts down on the time it takes to single out the ddoser.
And literally all you know is "it's one of these 10 guys." which is the same information they know now. Riot doesn't go after individual people. They find out about an exploit and then gather information on everybody that uses it over time and then bans them all at once.
On June 24 2015 01:59 ticklishmusic wrote: So I want to pick up toplane. Been a jungle/support main for like... 4 years, highest ranking D3. What to do? Use a smurf and spam ranked games top? I did pretty good with Lulu top when that was a thing, and I can play Garen and Cho.
Play TP ryze, farm till 700 gold, shove lane back get tear TP into lane spam W on your lane opponent with the most imba champ in the game.
GG collect freelo.
EDIT: Oh yeah and buy a ward on your back with tear so you dont get ganked while harassing yr lane opponent.
On June 24 2015 01:59 ticklishmusic wrote: So I want to pick up toplane. Been a jungle/support main for like... 4 years, highest ranking D3. What to do? Use a smurf and spam ranked games top? I did pretty good with Lulu top when that was a thing, and I can play Garen and Cho.
Play TP ryze, farm till 700 gold, shove lane back get tear TP into lane spam W on your lane opponent with the most imba champ in the game.
GG collect freelo.
EDIT: Oh yeah and buy a ward on your back with tear so you dont get ganked while harassing yr lane opponent.
On June 24 2015 01:59 ticklishmusic wrote: So I want to pick up toplane. Been a jungle/support main for like... 4 years, highest ranking D3. What to do? Use a smurf and spam ranked games top? I did pretty good with Lulu top when that was a thing, and I can play Garen and Cho.
Play TP ryze, farm till 700 gold, shove lane back get tear TP into lane spam W on your lane opponent with the most imba champ in the game.
GG collect freelo.
EDIT: Oh yeah and buy a ward on your back with tear so you dont get ganked while harassing yr lane opponent.
Don't forget that bucket of nerfs in 5.12.
Daymmmm what are the nerfs? I would research but im at work. Im pretty happy they are nerfing him LOL so ridiculous in 5.11.
What is he gonna do? Walk up to your enemy and punch them so he can get a stun? his only good support laning ability is the devour, and if you eat your own AD they can't attack so its not that great. He has no gap closer or initiate or poke, and really conditional weak CC. His laming looks terrible.
On June 24 2015 03:52 AsmodeusXI wrote: Between the monster stunning tongue and the swallow and spit monsters W, I have to believe this catfish can jungle... *excitement*
Can't wait to yell at people to GET IN MY BELLEH
meh I prefer Gragas as my fat bastard
On June 24 2015 05:40 AsnSensation wrote: omg lux will get the QoL change on E that people have been asking for in 5.12
SLOW ZONE RADIUS 300 ⇒ 350 LADY OF USABILITY Can be re-cast in flight to detonate on arrival
His numbers are on the PBE, and will probably get nerfed, but Devour's 100~300 damage when sending a minion on enemies hits hard. His Q also has very high base damage, and the cost and cooldown are low.
I'm curious about Gragas, if he's gonna be able to gank at level 3 (possibly taking the scuttler first, which I had to do to feel comfortable) now, considering he's losing something like... almost 100 HP worth of regen in the first 2 minutes?
I cant wait to setup a max stack Cho'Gath with Elixir of Iron and Lulu ult being eaten by Tahm. Sure as hell going to do it with premades in normals. :D
On June 24 2015 04:37 Jek wrote: There's 100% going to be a Kappa Tahm skin.
On June 24 2015 03:31 cLutZ wrote:
On June 23 2015 22:08 Jek wrote:
On June 23 2015 16:03 cLutZ wrote: Sounds like I just made DDOSing less advantageous
It'd have the sideeffect of easily bogging down the gameserver with tons of unfinished games and make higher Elo unplayable since a lot of people could be 'locked' up in a game rather than just queuing up again.
But that is the advantage. The DDOSer cannot go on to his next game, and once you sense a drophack (more than X players leaving a game within 1 min), then you can monitor that game and immediately flag all those players. Its unclear if they have the information from the client to bust people, so they need to amass tons of trend information to figure out if a person is DDOSing or is simply a victim of it very often.
Locking up 9 innocent players until a Rioter looks into that specific game is not exactly a good idea if you want to keep your users happy.
They can reconnect to the game and play it out?
The issue, it seems, is that Riot may not even have a record of dropped games.
The thing is as long as the drophack is running you cannot reconnect, and if it stops the little shit can just run it again to further lock up the other plays.
Spellblade - After using an ability, the next basic attack is converted into magic damage and deals 75% Base Attack Damage (+0.3 ability power) bonus damage on hit in an Area-of-Effect around the target and restores 8% of your missing Mana
Didn't the PBE version only restore mana if you used the empowered auto on a jungle camp? Smite Ezreal and Gangplank incoming :3
honestly the GP idea sounds legit but I've always found my biggest annoyance when playing gp to be slot efficiency anyway.
I mean to say when you don't play him full parlay damage build he really feels like he needs one more damage item but when you build two damage items you feel like you should have just gone full damage, idk I've always found him frustrating in that way
EPT
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KRXY1PBLmeQ/VXeEncNNH6I/AAAAAAAArI0/FIJAYuZHG8U/s1600/gangplankitem.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/ik6Km/76dfc31aa3.png)
![[image loading]](http://cdn.dota2.com/apps/dota2/images/reborn/day1/DotaTV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/PNHVcg6.png)
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CINwvClVEAERTBZ.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mzMArMVBYr0/VYnR_Q4P5NI/AAAAAAAAsG8/B9SzgiYcUa0/s640/tahm1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IGDCqhE9k4g/VYnQFB6C3PI/AAAAAAAAsGc/qW3I25xj-Us/s640/TahmKench_Splash_1.jpg)
