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Unbeatable 2 Rax Push? - Page 5

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tikalal
Profile Joined November 2010
48 Posts
November 19 2010 06:07 GMT
#81
On November 19 2010 14:55 Komsa wrote:
Works against 2000+ Diamond in TvT too! OMG

http://www.mediafire.com/?onmo25qj6a5s3nx

lol?


That was a poor example in my opinion. If green engaged the marines as they were coming up his ramp, repaired the tank with three SCVs, and sent 3 or 4 SCVs as meatshields, he would have held that off.

This rush actually seems less effective than the very hard ai.
evoli
Profile Joined May 2010
United States333 Posts
November 19 2010 06:08 GMT
#82
Kanye West actually just told Tweetosis he thinks this build has been around for a while.

[image loading]
General Manager for EG // twitter.com/gosutrolling
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
November 19 2010 06:09 GMT
#83
On November 19 2010 15:07 tikalal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 14:55 Komsa wrote:
Works against 2000+ Diamond in TvT too! OMG

http://www.mediafire.com/?onmo25qj6a5s3nx

lol?


That was a poor example in my opinion. If green engaged the marines as they were coming up his ramp, repaired the tank with three SCVs, and sent 3 or 4 SCVs as meatshields, he would have held that off.

This rush actually seems less effective than the very hard ai.

really though it's kinda hard to say exactly if it is the build or not, until artosis fights against it again and posts the replay ~.~'

also, I wonder (though kinda hard to find out) if this is affecting the lower leagues in Korea too...
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
Zyphen
Profile Joined September 2010
United States258 Posts
November 19 2010 06:11 GMT
#84
This really doesn't sound that new. Maybe people who don't play team games at all wouldn't recognize it, but it's a pretty standard build:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2_Rax_Orbital

It's simply been adapted for 1v1. I do it all the time in 3v3s to defend or support an early rush. You can easily expo off it or get double gas to tech. I think somebody else brought it up a week or so ago as the way to pressure zerg FE and we all agreed it was the 2 rax orbital build.
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
November 19 2010 06:12 GMT
#85
On November 19 2010 15:08 evoli wrote:
Kanye West actually just told Tweetosis he thinks this build has been around for a while.

[image loading]


I knew he was behind the most unbeatable rush of ALL TIME!

LOL. I don't know if I should stay here because people have been making humorous comments but I sense a lot of wrath in the future
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
Bear4188
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1797 Posts
November 19 2010 06:13 GMT
#86
Could people stop assuming it's one of a multitude of different 2 rax builds until Artosis actually provides a solid example.
"I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something." - R. Feynman
Komsa
Profile Joined November 2010
United States99 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-19 06:16:16
November 19 2010 06:15 GMT
#87
On November 19 2010 15:07 tikalal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 14:55 Komsa wrote:
Works against 2000+ Diamond in TvT too! OMG

http://www.mediafire.com/?onmo25qj6a5s3nx

lol?


That was a poor example in my opinion. If green engaged the marines as they were coming up his ramp, repaired the tank with three SCVs, and sent 3 or 4 SCVs as meatshields, he would have held that off.

This rush actually seems less effective than the very hard ai.



TELL THAT TO THE 2000+ Diamonds rolf
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. -Woodrow Wilson
[Atomic]Peace
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States451 Posts
November 19 2010 06:15 GMT
#88
I appreciate Artosis' comments in this thread and they are very informative (thank you for shutting down 3 spine crawlers as a valid strat...). But if this thread were about anyone else it would be locked. There's no point in discussing this strategy without a replay of video. For example, I'm not convinced a build like this is unscoutable since no gas is taken. It would take some sort of early game adaptation to block the ramp in time. But the point is, we don't know without a replay. All this thread is doing right now is fuel complaining and uninformed commentary on TvZ.
☢
EtherealDeath
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States8366 Posts
November 19 2010 06:21 GMT
#89
On November 19 2010 15:08 evoli wrote:
Kanye West actually just told Tweetosis he thinks this build has been around for a while.

[image loading]


huh this is a joke right, just have to be sure, because I actually checked his twitter when I read this and saw nothing of that sort O.O
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-19 06:26:30
November 19 2010 06:26 GMT
#90
On November 19 2010 15:21 EtherealDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 15:08 evoli wrote:
Kanye West actually just told Tweetosis he thinks this build has been around for a while.

[image loading]


huh this is a joke right, just have to be sure, because I actually checked his twitter when I read this and saw nothing of that sort O.O

....yes this is a joke..(you can't delete tweets)
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
cHaNg-sTa
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1058 Posts
November 19 2010 06:30 GMT
#91
Incoming marine build time nerf.
Jaedong <3 HOOK'EM HORNS!
TempeRr
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada18 Posts
November 19 2010 06:55 GMT
#92
On November 19 2010 14:25 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 19 2010 13:58 danson wrote:
On November 19 2010 13:54 Shikyo wrote:
How are you behind after 2-3 spine crawlers? He's not exactly 1rax CCing and even that doesn't really get ahead of the Z. Pool-first doesn't really give you worse econ than hatch-first because of faster Queen. After the 2-3 or w/e spines you can tech really freely and make only drones for a long time, spine crawlers are extremely light on the larvae so you have many more for the drones than if you made speedlings. He also is going to spend a mule to scan you, so you really shouldn't be behind alot if at all.


3 spine crawlers =

300min + 150m to remake drones + no mining time on drones while remaking (~75)

costs you over 500min in minerals and mineral potential, while the only thing is cost terran is MAYBE 280min + a look at your tech.

your spines, rather useless from now on... his marines, still useful

You don't remake anything. Imagine you make 6 Zerglings, that's 3 larvae, okay? Now imagine those are 3 drones instead. They never mined, they never were going to mine. They were intended to be combat units from the beginning, you lose no mining time at all. You lose 3 larvae and 450 minerals.

You can't look at it so black-and-white, just the scan by the Terran costs over half of that cost and the fact you can safely drone for a while makes it more than worth it.

Just stop posting seriously, you're terrible. I could of used those 450 minerals on 2 queens and 3 drones! Do you see the Econ lose? If you don't you save three drones plus get three more drones and two queens
Seriously pisses me off when people consider spine crawlers to cost mining time.

What the spines do is let you drone up, which lets you go ahead in economy. Also they are useful, they can be moved to chokepoints, strategic locations(on the side of the gold base in metal for instance), to your third base, etc. It's not only about comparing units cost-by-cost. It's an extremely cheap price to pay if building 3 crawlers shuts their attack down.

I'm not sure if it does, though, and if it doesn't, then this is all irrelevant.

Let it Raine
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada1245 Posts
November 19 2010 06:56 GMT
#93
artosis, you mention you never hatch first. What do you do instead? In all of my matchups besides ZvZ I pretty much rely on hatching first. (when someone messes with that I want to end it all though, heh)

I just feel like the production is necessary, but if top zergs consider it too risky then I should probably stick to pooling first.
Grandmaster Zerg x14. Diamond 1 LoL. MLG 50, Halo 3. Raine.
tikalal
Profile Joined November 2010
48 Posts
November 19 2010 07:01 GMT
#94
I wonder if one of my regular builds would hold it off?

From the timings of the example posted earlier, I'd have 1 zealot and 2 stalkers when the 5 marines come up the ramp (5:30), At 5:45 I'd have another stalker, and at 6:07 I'd add 1 stalker and 1 zealot. This build cuts no probes so I'd have 30 probes to their 19 at 6:07.

Even if I needed to pull probes off, think I could survive, maybe even stay ahead?.
Bleb
Profile Joined August 2010
Croatia278 Posts
November 19 2010 07:04 GMT
#95
ah, he didn't say unbeatable he said unscoutable...
btw artosis also said during gls2 finals that hatch first is instant gg for zerg (paraphrasing here)... and guess what ? + Show Spoiler +
we saw 6 hatch first iirc.
ANGRYhouse
Profile Joined November 2010
United States3 Posts
November 19 2010 07:08 GMT
#96
This push reminds me a lot of the 4 marine SCV all in that was nerfed in beta.
Maguspk
Profile Joined April 2010
United States13 Posts
November 19 2010 07:12 GMT
#97
lol, my favorite reply is the kid who says you will have roaches by 4:30.
im awesome.
BWILLdur
Profile Joined October 2010
United States100 Posts
November 19 2010 07:13 GMT
#98
On November 19 2010 16:01 tikalal wrote:
I wonder if one of my regular builds would hold it off?

From the timings of the example posted earlier, I'd have 1 zealot and 2 stalkers when the 5 marines come up the ramp (5:30), At 5:45 I'd have another stalker, and at 6:07 I'd add 1 stalker and 1 zealot. This build cuts no probes so I'd have 30 probes to their 19 at 6:07.

Even if I needed to pull probes off, think I could survive, maybe even stay ahead?.


I just messed with it some but your scv count is way off I think. At 5:00 you have 10 marines at your own ramp, 2 rax's, an orbital and 19 scvs. You also have enough energy for a scan at this point, and enough minerals in the bank (605) to expand if you don't like what you see with the scan. This is primarily an opener vs zerg because lings without speed get poop'd on by marines. I don't know enough about this build as to when it actually hits the front door of the enemy though. You could skip the first mule and use the first energy to scan too, but that will delay your expansion.
Komsa
Profile Joined November 2010
United States99 Posts
November 19 2010 07:16 GMT
#99
alright just tried it against a 2200 Zerg on Lost Temple. You can scout it by keeping an overlord on the little ledge by their mineral chain. Keep a good eye on it and notice when some scv's move out. If you see that throw down a spine or two.
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow. -Woodrow Wilson
zhurai
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States5660 Posts
November 19 2010 07:25 GMT
#100
On November 19 2010 16:16 Komsa wrote:
alright just tried it against a 2200 Zerg on Lost Temple. You can scout it by keeping an overlord on the little ledge by their mineral chain. Keep a good eye on it and notice when some scv's move out. If you see that throw down a spine or two.

so what if they are cross positions or like on Xel'Naga Caverns, how're you going to get your overlord to their base in time/without it dying on the way/etc? >_>...geh.
Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com
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