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On November 19 2010 13:25 Artosis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 13:14 XXXSmOke wrote:
Artosis is reffering to if the Z goes hatch first. If Z goes pool first, speedlings and one crawler will stop this with ease.
I have won the last 9 TvZ's that go 14 hatch with this build hes talking about. He says its unscoutable because you do 1 rax in base and 1 maka rax rally marines to the Z expo and pull 5-6 scvs with rine support. Have 1 scv build a bunker while your rines and other scvs make short work of any lings. Stutter step micro is so effective vs non-speed lings which are impossible to get this fast if you hatch first. If the Z somehow manages to survive this you just switch to tanks and do a quick tank push. stop please. completely not what im reffering to. i never go hatch first, its a gamble build. first off, i never said "Unbeatable". It is beatable, but it is extremely hard to scout correctly. marines catch drones very fast, and a handful of marines at the front make it very hard to see if this is infact what he is doing. there is a new build on the asian server which is basically a marine / scv timing rush. they often times use a scan to see exactly what you have 1 time and adjust the attack timing to fit it. its far better than the rushes foxer was doing to nestea. roaches probably would stop it, but if they use that scan i was talking about, they simply expand and your economy is quite bad with a handful of roaches. its quite a hard build to play vs right now on the asian server, and getting very popular.
You think you could post up some replays, Artosis?
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On November 19 2010 13:28 Antisocialmunky wrote:
Do you have a BO?
From the way he is putting it, it isn't a strict build order. (maybe it is until like 15 supply or something) Once you scan, the Terran tweaks his build to exploit the Zerg's build.
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Do you not read posts, artosis said he isn't going hatch first so cool your jets.
Sorry, the OP says this: "The days of 14 hatching are over once again."
Perhaps it should be modified?
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any replays of this would be awesome to try and understand it better
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Is there a reason you don't want to post a replay Artosis?
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On November 19 2010 13:32 Corwin wrote:
Is there a reason you don't want to post a replay Artosis?
If you think a build is really busted, why would you post it so suddenly every Terran on every ladder is doing it?
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On November 19 2010 13:34 RuKu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 13:32 Corwin wrote:
Is there a reason you don't want to post a replay Artosis? If you think a build is really busted, why would you post it so suddenly every Terran on every ladder is doing it?
the more it's known and understood, the quicker a solution can be developed for Zerg to deal with it
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On November 19 2010 13:34 RuKu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 13:32 Corwin wrote:
Is there a reason you don't want to post a replay Artosis? If you think a build is really busted, why would you post it so suddenly every Terran on every ladder is doing it?
People are going to find it either way
IF it's busted, blizzard will fix it faster.
If it's not, then everyone might as well know it, and start learning to counter it.
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On November 19 2010 13:34 RuKu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 13:32 Corwin wrote:
Is there a reason you don't want to post a replay Artosis? If you think a build is really busted, why would you post it so suddenly every Terran on every ladder is doing it?
I would imagine that he would for mainly two reasons:
1) The more people know, the more people can work on countering it all the more quickly.
and
2) The more people know, the more Terrans employ the tactic, the greater the chance it affects things enough that Blizzard does something to tweak balance.
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So we got that to look forward to in the GSL... This is cranking out to be a pretty lame GSL.
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So its basically "very hard AI" terran build minus the micro. Throw up 2-3 spine crawlers + few lings and i dont see how u couldnt hold it off. Thats IF you scout it of course.
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@HalcyonMaus, I think #1 is more the answer. People have claimed blizzard neeed to patch certain units before, and a few weeks later without any patch, people adapt and are doing fine to X strat.
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On November 19 2010 13:38 lphoenixl wrote:
So its basically "very hard AI" terran build minus the micro. Throw up 2-3 spine crawlers + few lings and i dont see how u couldnt hold it off. Thats IF you scout it of course.
That much of a econ loss that early can lose you the game itself..
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If anyone has a replay of this I'd love to see it.
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Artosis
United States2140 Posts
ok time to teach some stuff to some folks:
"Make 3 spine crawlers" is a terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrible idea. if that's the answer, terran sees it, and then simply expands with a great economy, while yours is garbage with 3 useless spine crawlers (300 minerals + 150 minerals for drones, + 3 drones no longer mining, all of this after a pool-first (and normally speed-first as well...) build)
that = ridiculously far behind at the top levels.
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God, I know this build sounds scary but lets see how this can be beaten before we start talking about Blizzard doing some tweaking.
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On November 19 2010 13:43 Artosis wrote:
ok time to teach some stuff to some folks:
"Make 3 spine crawlers" is a terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrible idea. if that's the answer, terran sees it, and then simply expands with a great economy, while yours is garbage with 3 useless spine crawlers (300 minerals + 150 minerals for drones, + 3 drones no longer mining, all of this after a pool-first (and normally speed-first as well...) build)
that = ridiculously far behind at the top levels.
should we be scared for ret idra and haypro?, I thought at least two of them have said zvt is their best matchup.... oh noes!
also: you said the solution could be a baneling nest? but havent we seen that good micro doesnt make banelings good vs marines? does this push come before speed for banes could be done? before you have enough creep for them to be useful? do they get gas/stim? sounds like zerg vs mass reaper all over again... pray you can stay alive until lair tech can kick in.
gogo impromptu artosis replay commentary!
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On November 19 2010 13:34 RuKu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 13:32 Corwin wrote:
Is there a reason you don't want to post a replay Artosis? If you think a build is really busted, why would you post it so suddenly every Terran on every ladder is doing it?
But otherwise we can't help Artosis :d
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I saw your twitter Artosis,so you say a blind Baneling nest may counter this?
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I'd be interested in seeing a replay... The foxer games were interesting but it seemed to me that nestea handled -that- marine/scv rush fairly effectively even with a FE... I'm wondering how this is different. More scv's? A total all-in?
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EPT
