Here's a very low level replay (low platinum) of me trying to do something as suggested. No proxy barracks, awful macro/micro but still works versus people who I guess are at my skill level.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/107185-1v1-terran-zerg-jungle-basin

The guy's reaction is funny though.

DDKz

Australia188 Posts

November 20 2010 21:24 GMT

#223

On November 21 2010 05:57 EtonB wrote:
Here's a very low level replay (low platinum) of me trying to do something as suggested. No proxy barracks, awful macro/micro but still works versus people who I guess are at my skill level.

http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/107185-1v1-terran-zerg-jungle-basin

The guy's reaction is funny though.

This guys reaction to the build and claims of you hacking were pretty hilarious, but that's not the build. I think we're talking about earlier pressure than this, as in 12 rax 14 rax 6 scv 4 marines, right?

Also you're spose to hide the 2nd rax so it's not scouted.

ePAttack

United States112 Posts

November 20 2010 21:27 GMT

#224

wow looks like i'm switching to terran hahaha

toadstool

Australia421 Posts

November 20 2010 21:32 GMT

#225

On November 21 2010 04:29 mango_destroyer wrote:
Artosis isn`t exactly one of the top zergs on korea server at all..so if some replays or build order could be provided it would help us figure out if this is infact true.

I'm confused by this. Why would he lie for?

fishinguy

Russian Federation798 Posts

November 20 2010 21:36 GMT

#226

On November 21 2010 06:32 toadstool wrote:

Show nested quote +

I'm confused by this. Why would he lie for?

Whether it is inf act "unbeatable" or "unscoutable" because it sure sounds scoutable to me. Anyway what is the point of discussing a strategy for so many pages without actually not quite knowing what it is.

Beardedclam

United States839 Posts

November 20 2010 21:38 GMT

#227

You guys are funny, you think you know how to stop everything and play perfectly. Obviously Artosis can be wrong sometimes, but to claim that this build is easy to stop without even knowing the build is a joke. Half of you act like you can stop marines with one spine crawler and a queen, which may be true but you are not playing top tier players that can micro. Look how good FoxeR did with similar builds and now this that this build is being more refined it's going to be very very strong.

EtonB

Mexico7 Posts

November 20 2010 21:38 GMT

#228

On November 21 2010 06:24 DDKz wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah that's why I guess it works on low level platinum.. a lot of people scout just because they're supposed to scout but don't really gain any valuable intel or know how to react (I do that a lot, sadly)

Figgy20000

Canada28 Posts

November 20 2010 22:00 GMT

#229

He is talking about the similar build Foxer was using against Nestea... I REALLY don't see how you can't scout it unless you are sending your scout super suuuuuuper late.

You slightly delay a single SCV to get your 2nd rax up slightly faster to wall off before the drone can make it in your base (This should be a hint to zerg, fast 2 rax = no gas which means either fast expo or super early aggresion, this is the scouting info right here!!), and you have to cut one SCV to build one extra marine faster so you can get a CC at the proper time. I'm decent (2200 T) and I play this build vs every zerg on close positions (unless he is obviously going baneling bust or whatever, then you have to adjust). It's beatable by either building 2 spine crawlers which allows you to mass drone (No gas puts terran way behind on tech to break the spines, forced a fast expo which gives Zerg more than enough time to drone up into mid game). You can also build a single crawler on maps where you can more easier block marines from getting up your ramp or the rare play of a zerg one basing a single spine holds it off easily. You can also win in a straight up Micro Fight (Ala Foxer vs Nestea) by getting a surround on the marines in which case you win the game instantly, if you're going for fast zergling speed it's much easier to get a surround.

As zerg you should ALWAYS have lings outside his base or at a Zel Naga Tower as well. The second you see SCVs heading towards your base it should be an auto spine crawler right away.

Really I don't see how he could be talking about any other build as there really is no way to adjust the timing for faster marines.

universalwill

United States654 Posts

November 20 2010 22:05 GMT

#230

ugh i wish we could all read artosis' responses before responding

artosis, think you could upload a replay of this build, maybe from one of your ladder games? i want to actually see and try to understand it more before i start flaming you/complaining about terran. although if you and idra haven't figured out the best way to handle it i know for a fact none of us won't, i'm still curious to see more closely how it varies from foxer's build.

EDIT: and do you think that it would be easier to stop if it were just easier to scout? if that's the case then it might not be a case of marines being too strong but of zerg's scouting being too weak.

Wubbles

United States120 Posts

November 20 2010 22:06 GMT

#231

Is this the build? I faced a 2 rax oc build today in craftcup where he pushed out with 8 marines & 10 scvs (I went 14 hatch) and I was able to hold it (2 waves) without any drone loss where he eventually gg'd

Here's the replay: http://screplays.com/replays/wubbles/13500

I'm 1832 Diamond & the Terran I faced is 1969 Diamond

**EDIT**
Map was Metalopolis & we were cross position, not sure how I would have done if we were close positions since the travel distance gave me time to plop down spine crawlers and get my zerglings out to hold.

optical630

United Kingdom768 Posts

November 20 2010 22:10 GMT

#232

time to get some quick easy ladder points when the terran players copy and execute poorly

windsupernova

Mexico5280 Posts

November 20 2010 22:14 GMT

#233

On November 21 2010 06:38 Beardedclam wrote:
You guys are funny, you think you know how to stop everything and play perfectly. Obviously Artosis can be wrong sometimes, but to claim that this build is easy to stop without even knowing the build is a joke. Half of you act like you can stop marines with one spine crawler and a queen, which may be true but you are not playing top tier players that can micro. Look how good FoxeR did with similar builds and now this that this build is being more refined it's going to be very very strong.

Yeah, this section is sometimes silly like that. People always assume perfect Micro, Macro, scouting and that something is not viable accounting that. Just look at the 15 Nexus and 1 gate FE threads.

Figgy20000

Canada28 Posts

November 20 2010 22:19 GMT

#234

On November 21 2010 07:05 universalwill wrote:
ugh i wish we could all read artosis' responses before responding

artosis, think you could upload a replay of this build, maybe from one of your ladder games? i want to actually see and try to understand it more before i start flaming you/complaining about terran. although if you and idra haven't figured out the best way to handle it i know for a fact none of us won't, i'm still curious to see more closely how it varies from foxer's build.

EDIT: and do you think that it would be easier to stop if it were just easier to scout? if that's the case then it might not be a case of marines being too strong but of zerg's scouting being too weak.

I read the responses, there are just severe limits to options early game when you have no gas. It's either build more Rax and more marines and vary your push timing or expand. It's really not too hard to figure out all the 2 rax openings that require to cut a single SCV. There are a total of 2 options for it and only one of them stops that Drone from getting in (early 2nd rax). Unless you're suggesting the Terran like 7 depots or something which is a joke and cuts more than 1 SCV to begin with. It's ridiculously scoutable and it's definitely not even close to impossible to hold off without investing in a Blind Baneling nest.

Unless there are some replays or at least a build order it's just Zerg QQ... I don't know what else you can even say about it and while Artosis is better than most of us he isn't close to the top of Korean Zergs.

GHOSTCLAW

United States17042 Posts

November 20 2010 22:21 GMT

#235

Sigh. Okay. Closed, because even though artosis responds there is no replay. We would all love to see replays, and without it, there's really nothing to discuss.

It would be great if a new thread could be started with a replay.

It's hard to say why we even allowed an OP with a twitter post, but at least artosis responded, although not with a replay