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I decided to start a general topic for discussing fantasy writers and their series, where we could talk about what makes fantasy great, who are the greatest writers and the best series that are out there. I originally just wanted to post something about the series I’m re-reading right now, and found that there’s the “what are you reading thread” and that s about it. There is a popular dedicated thread for A song of Ice and Fire series one less frequented for the Malazan series and many animes/mangas have their own, but very little love is shown in general for other fantasy series, some old threads asking for recommendations.
So I’m opening this thread with two goals in mind:
1. Have a place to share your favorite epic-fantasy writer and or series, and look for recommendations from like-minded people.
For this I created a poll that includes the most popular fantasy writers. For the sake of simplicity I am intentionally leaving out strictly sci-fi series, although I do concede the border between sci-fi and fantasy doesn't really exist. Disclaimer, i haven't read all of these, but I know enough about them to include them on the list. This will serve both as a survey and as a starting point for recommendations. All of the writers and series mentioned are critically acclaimed and satisfy the "epic" fantasy criteria in my opinion. The spectrum is wide from lighter stuff to gritty and dark, but I wont exclude a series based just on being on the one extreme of the spectrum. So here it is:
Poll: Who is the greatest epic fantasy writer of all time?Steven Erikson+ I.C.E (the Malazan series) (21) 22% J.R.R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings) (20) 21% Brandon Sanderson (Mistborn, Stormlight Archives) (17) 18% Robert Jordan (The Wheel of Time) (13) 13% G.R.R Martin (A song of ice and fire) (6) 6% Terry Pratchett (Discworld) (6) 6% Patrick Rothfuss (The Kingkiller Chronicles) (5) 5% J.K. Rowling (Harry Potter) (3) 3% Glenn Cook (The Black Company) (2) 2% Mark Lawrence (The Broken Empire) (2) 2% NONE of the above, and Im personally offended that you left out my favorite fantasy writer (2) 2% Scott Lynch (Gentleman Bastards) (0) 0% Robin Hobb (Realm of the Elderlings) (0) 0% Joe Abercrombie (First Law) (0) 0% 97 total votes Your vote: Who is the greatest epic fantasy writer of all time? (Vote): J.R.R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings)
(Vote): G.R.R Martin (A song of ice and fire)
(Vote): Steven Erikson+ I.C.E (the Malazan series)
(Vote): Patrick Rothfuss (The Kingkiller Chronicles)
(Vote): J.K. Rowling (Harry Potter)
(Vote): Brandon Sanderson (Mistborn, Stormlight Archives)
(Vote): Glenn Cook (The Black Company)
(Vote): Terry Pratchett (Discworld)
(Vote): Scott Lynch (Gentleman Bastards)
(Vote): Robert Jordan (The Wheel of Time)
(Vote): Robin Hobb (Realm of the Elderlings)
(Vote): Mark Lawrence (The Broken Empire)
(Vote): Joe Abercrombie (First Law)
(Vote): NONE of the above, and Im personally offended that you left out my favorite fantasy writer
The second reason for this thread is to convince you that my pick for the best epic fantasy writer is the right one.
Brandon Sanderson might just be the best fantasy writer of all time, and yes, yes, i ve read pretty much all the big names, and while there are extremely talented lesser known writers I obviously couldn't read (yet), I’m comfortable with declaring Sanderson G.O.A.T. for the following reasons:
1. He uses hard magic systems. Hell, for me, he’s the father and patron saint of hard magic systems. For those who don’t know, hard magic system means that the magic is fairly clearly defined and it is bound by laws, and the characters/readers know these laws or can learn them in the course of the story. The users can’t just overcome obstacles by leveling up to a previously unknown power-level or concentrating really hard. There are things you can do and things you cannot. You cannot invent a new form of magic, just discover something that was possible all along. Example (sort of) from pop culture for hard magic system: Fullmetal alchemist + Show Spoiler +(Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange) (waterbenders bend water and you can stretch this to a wide area of application like ice, water inside of plants and sweat and blood in people, but that s pretty much it. The avatar has access to all 4 of the elements, but he can’t do other stuff either, he won’t be able to read minds or shape-shift etc.)
Counterexamples, well, almost all other Fantasy. You have almost no way of guessing how the character will solve a problem, since you don’t know what is possible and what isn’t: LOTR (how strong is Gandalf? what can he do, what spells can he pull out? Sauron? Arwen? f-ing huge hawks?), Harry Potter (there are almost no limitations, think of basically anything, there could be a spell/potion that does exactly that. Wands are needed for spells? well kinda, but not really. Wands could be super powerful or just a tool) etc. Most fantasy series try to impose some rules but they are mostly vague and work-arounds can be found, especially if the hero is concentrating really hard and is really motivated.
![[image loading]](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/011/278/401/large/giselle-almeida-mistborn-hero-of-ages-compact.jpg?1528761386)
The first Mistborn trilogy is the absolute best example of a hard magic system, imo. It has been criticized that it’s too exact and science-like. Like that’s bad…. The rules of the world could be explained in 3-4 sentences and they are never violated. Yet creative and surprising solutions and applications can be found, it’s great but simple. Characters can come up with new ways that haven’t been used before, but nothing outside of the confines of the system. And that new trick or way could be imitated by others following the “reveal” (much like videogames or board games). Sure, some people are better and stronger in the use of said magic, but then again some people are 10 times better with sword and shield (or mouse and keyboard) than others, so that is alright with me.
In Stormlight archives the system it is a bit more complex, the magic is multi-faceted, and at the start the characters (hence the reader) aren’t aware of many things. But the sets of rules are there nonetheless. Slowly we learn these rules and what certain type of character will be or won’t be able to do.
Brandon Sanderson came up with not one, not two but several independent hard magic systems that work wonderfully.
2. The characters. I would be exaggerating if I said all the characters are well written and unique. But most of them are! And even if you have seen the archetype of the character before, Sanderson has a different take on it. I especially love his characters that struggle with depression or anxiety or suppressed rage or mental illness. While this definitely isn’t unheard of in fantasy and in literature in general, his take on these problems really took me in. As someone who is fairly introverted, some characters’ inner monologues really hit home for me. And I’m not talking about idle monologues and dialogues that are put there so the writer can claim he “fleshed out” his characters. Especially in Stormlight archives, the inner struggles and progressions of the characters are very much the driving force behind the story. Without spoiling too much, one way a character can take the next step is to admit something they were in denial about or arrive at a conclusion about themselves (or their relationships to others) that they ve been searching for but couldn’t find.
He really has an impressive range, there’s quite a big difference in tone and coloring of the different series. For example Warbreaker is a bit lighter (but wonderfully written) and there isn’t so much violence in it, compared to say the Stormlight books. Most of the characters are some shade of grey, very few completely good or completely bad ones (but obviously some are universally loved or hated).
3. He has passion for writing and seems to be immune for writer’s block. He has, I don’t know, like ten running series (worlds) or possibly more. Some of those are from the same universe called "Cosmere" and are very loosely connected (basically independent words with hidden Easter eggs that let you know they exist in the same universe). You are not required to read all the Cosmere books to understand or enjoy them. And there are several books/series from him that have nothing to do with the Cosmere. As of right now there isn’t a single story that meaningfully connects two or more separate worlds, but there are hints that we will have such novels sometime in the distant future.
To put it in perspective, the Mistborn series is a planned triple trilogy in three completely separate eras (we have one complete trilogy so far) plus there’s a spinoff of 4 books that are not part of the originally planned 9 books. The books are around 500 pages each.
In the same "Cosmere", on a different world the "Stormlight archives" takes place, and that is planned to be a double five-book series. So far 3 books are released and each has around 1200 pages (that translates to about 48 hours of audio recording/book). And no, it’s not stretched intentionally too long, I haven’t had that feeling for a second.
There are 3 other worlds in the Cosmere where we have at least one novel (and at least one will have sequels). And there are novellas and we know there are gonna be new series in the Cosmere, again, on different worlds. Now you might think that whatever, the writer just creates worlds willy-nilly and says some of them are from the Cosmere. No. The Cosmere has its limitations as well, some worlds are in it and some others definitely aren’t. I don’t want to include any spoilers in this post so I won’t explain it any further.
![[image loading]](http://thesocialpotato.maryfaye.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Books-to-Read.png)
If you re into epic and extremely large worlds Brandon Sanderson is number 1. I would guess that the “completion rate” of the Cosmere is somewhere around 20-30% right now and we’re talking about 12 full novels and close to that many novellas and short-stories. Easily 12.000 pages, possibly more. That’s already easily comparable to the Erickson’s Malazan series or Jordan’s Wheel of time (and btw the same Brandon Sanderson is the one who completed the series after Jordan’s death)
But hey, don’t get an anxiety attack from that, you can absolutely read and fully enjoy just one book or one series from the “Cosmere” and ignore that there might be other stories loosely connected to it.
Now I don’t want to diss on other writers, but if you’re a fan of the ASOIAF series or read The Name of the Wind way back when… well, you know why I consider this an important factor.
4. The writing techniques and world-building
Brandon is a world building master. Fake histories, fake geographies, lots of made-up religions and cultures and races and customs and fighting styles, and above all, magic systems. He somehow finds names for his places and people that are easy to remember yet unique. He manages to come up with different societal structures and competing religions for each of his worlds, and presents them in a way that is easy to understand. He uses lots of interesting techniques such as “a book within a book” or the “story insides the story”. Some of his books are narrated from the multiple POV of several characters.
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/3f2fjibe1e001.jpg)
There are no fillers, each page contains relevant information. Ok, maybe that s not completely true, but it does feel like it. I have never experienced a “gosh, just get on with the story, who cares about this….” moment while reading. Tiny little details that you scrolled over turn out to be extremely relevant plot devices, or they are foreshadowing things to come. I don’t want to say his worlds are better built then GRRM’s ASOIAF or Tolkien’s LOTR. But they’re very much comparable, and again he has multiple worlds so I have to factor that in. Sure, GRRM made such a crazy impressive fake-history and background story for his characters that you cannot find a writing-inconsistency anymore no matter what, and you can find detailed information about, say, the great-grandfather of any given character from Game of Thrones. But on the down side, he probably has an anxiety attack just thinking about writing any new material in the series, fearing it won’t live up to the crazy high standard that he cultivated, so there’s that.
So, let me know, who do you consider the best fantasy writer, and what are your criteria for selecting him/her.
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The best counter to sanderson being the GOAT is JK roling. Her soft magic world creates a ton of wonder that was so greatly brought to light in the movies. Even the adult world of magic looks really good. If you didn't absolutely freak out in the scene where (I'll save the few from spoilers) they go into the suitcase you're mad.
That being said its tolkein. The godfather created orcs from whole cloth and that makes his impact on fantasy on that lone is as big as any single person. Its hard to see past him and Issac asminov in their words.
That being said I read the mistborn trilogy (I got the whole thing on a single book on my phone) the fastest I've ever read ever and found it much easier and more enjoyable to read then the lord of the rings. I don't know man I just don't know.
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I'm currently being pleasantly surprised by Tad Williamses Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn trilogy. I've read most of the names in the poll so it has gotten hard to get my fix for epic fantasy, Memory Sorrow and Thorn is decent and more importantly, finished.
My favourite has to be the Malazan series, such a huge scope and interesting world, for me it's the culmination of the genre. The ending to the second book is one of the most memorable endings I've ever read. Lots of memorable characters as well (this could be because I've finished the series at the start of this year) and of course, the series is finished with a wordcount of 3.3 million words (compared to LotR 500k). With that many words you really feel part of world after reading about it for weeks (months). [edit] I will say, the first book can be hard to get into, which is doubly painful because it is 600+pages
I do like brandon sanderson and he certainly has less "filler", but his writing style feels more "young-adulty" (even his non-YA novels) which makes me read almost too fast for full enjoyment. That said, it also makes sure you can't stop reading and some of his epic climaxes are simply amazing. I also wouldn't count the entire Cosmere universe as one epic fantasy world, it's more like fanservice.
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Tbh I really like Sanderson and find him highly enjoyable, but he is a tad predictable and schematic. I really liked the Mistborn series and Elantris, but those are the only books I'd consider a heavyweight in terms of characters and imagination.
Erickson vs Tolkien on the other hand is so hard to judge. I think the jump from Tolkien to Erickson is almost as large as the jump from Northern Sagas to Tolkien and both are amazing world writers. I chose Tolkien, because he's the better character writer and Erickson is a bit too heavy on the dread at times, but Malazan is probably the series that can hold it's own the best compared to the genre defining books that Tolkien wrote.
Edit: totally forgot about Patricia McKillip's riddlemaster trilogy, which are some of the finest fantasy books I've ever read.
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You left out some pretty serious contenders:
a)Roger Żelazny - Amber
b)Raymond E. Feist - Riftwar
c)Andrzej Sapkowski - Witcher
d)Sergiej Łukajnienko - Patrol (i guess it wasnt transalted to English???)
e)Robert Silverberg - Majipoor
Also i hate Robin Hobb being on this list. Even as teenager i found her books stupid i tremble at the thought of reading them as adult. And in regards to Sanderson he is superb writer but if You read several of his books in a row You start to realize they are all the same.
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On September 18 2018 03:19 Silvanel wrote:
You left out some pretty serious contenders:
a)Roger Żelazny - Amber
b)Raymond E. Feist - Riftwar
c)Andrzej Sapkowski - Witcher
d)Sergiej Łukajnienko - Patrol (i guess it wasnt transalted to English???)
e)Robert Silverberg - Majipoor
Also i hate Robin Hobb being on this list. Even as teenager i found her books stupid i tremble at the thought of reading them as adult. And in regards to Sanderson he is superb writer but if You read several of his books in a row You start to realize they are all the same.
I should clarify, as I said, I obviously left out many names, partly because I dont know them, partly because the list should be a bit exclusive. My methodology for selecting the names was a mix of personal opinions, reddit polling that stretches through a few years, goodreads rating and bestselling toplists. I know many people hate Robin Hobb but she s widely regarded as one of the best and probably as the best female writer.
Similarly Rothfuss gathered almost as big of a hater-crowd as his devoted fanbase.
From the five you mentioned, Im sad to admit I only heard of one, the Witcher (obviously)
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I really dislike the Riftwar cycle. The first trilogy was decent, the trilogy Feist co-wrote with Janny Wurts was very good, and most of the rest was just duller and duller rehashes of the first trilogy with the same plot points recurring ad nauseam, and depth-less villains being supposedly the puppet master behind the previous villain.
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I agree, first few books are good to very good and later ones become dull and redundant. Still the amount of decent material is bigger than some positions on the list. You just need to stop at some point.
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Love the idea for this thread. Read 7 of the 13 listed there, though it's been more than a decade since last visit for some.
Voted for ASOIAF. Biggest black mark against it is that it's not finished, but the world, characters and history are simultaneously tight and comprehensive, most of the character arcs are superbly executed and there's none better at springing a twist on the reader. It's frustrating that the show has taken the spotlight off just how damn good the core story is.
Agree with the poster who suggested Tad Williams. Memory, Sorrow & Thorn was excellent, though my favourite Williams series is Otherland which sits much closer to Sci Fi than anything else. Have mixed views about Shadowmarch.
Also agree that Robin Hobb doesn't belong in this discussion. Chalk me up as another who thought they were juvenile as a teenager.
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What about Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams ? That trilogy was epic-fantasy-ish and apparently was a big inspiration of GRR Martin and Patrick Rothfuss. It is fairly decent too(at least the first book that i read).
Idk Robin Hobb books might not count as epic fantasy but it wasn't bad. People felt like people not plot devices with her books and it was the first i read a perspective of child that was actually fun from her.
Despite Sanderson being my fantasy author. I cannot really say that i would find his Stormlight or Mistborn as the simply because Mistborn isn't exactly epic-fantasy(the original trilogy is epic fantasy but the sequels stretch to steampunk, flintlock, modern fantasy and eventually space opera) and the Stormlight has 3 out of 10 books out.
So my vote goes for WoT or Malazan, Also I just realized i read most in the list lol
Loved the Mistborn art btw(Vin looks elegant)
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omg, i read this thread just to see if i ever read any of the mentioned books (not that many to be honest) and saw the answers concerning Raymond Feist's riftwar. i have read his "the serpentwar saga" nearly 20 years ago and really enjoyed it and NOW i got to realise that it was just a small part of an epic series??? thats been really stupid of my ~14-years-old-self 
as someone who hasnt read many fantasy books - i usually read stephen king or similar authors - id like to ask if its worth to give the wheel of time a try? i heard of it a long time ago (when i was still a teenager i guess) and always thought that i might read it one day but have always been afraid of the big amount of pages... or should i better start with something else of the mentioned books/authors? Which of these series arent that extensive and probably recommendable for someone who isnt addicted to fantasy yet?
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There is so much fantasy to read, and I am very careful in choosing my series. I am always afraid that I end up in another story of beautiful elfs, violent orcs and whole digging dwarves. I liked LotR a lot, but I do not need more of it.
My three favorite series are:
1. Erikson's Malazan: Such an epic series, it took me months to get through and I just loved it. Funnily enough I normally do not like stories where some individuals are just crazy powerful and basically can slaughter armies by themselves. Yet it didn't bother me at all... probably because Erikson plays with these ideas extremely well and more often than not you (and the character in question) learns that power is a very fragile thing, often lost or overestimated.
2. Abercrombie's First Law series: Violent yet still extremely funny at some points. Wonderful characters and the story itself is just superb with cool twists.
3. Sanderson's Mistborn: I just really enjoyed reading it and the magic system is great, I enjoy it a lot more than the Stormlight magic system. The only drawback for me was that it read like a PG13 Fantasy book sometimes.
ASOIAF: I just do not enjoy Martin's writing style, I could not get past the second book.
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On September 18 2018 18:43 oEkY wrote:omg, i read this thread just to see if i ever read any of the mentioned books (not that many to be honest) and saw the answers concerning Raymond Feist's riftwar. i have read his "the serpentwar saga" nearly 20 years ago and really enjoyed it and NOW i got to realise that it was just a small part of an epic series??? thats been really stupid of my ~14-years-old-self as someone who hasnt read many fantasy books - i usually read stephen king or similar authors - id like to ask if its worth to give the wheel of time a try? i heard of it a long time ago (when i was still a teenager i guess) and always thought that i might read it one day but have always been afraid of the big amount of pages... or should i better start with something else of the mentioned books/authors? Which of these series arent that extensive and probably recommendable for someone who isnt addicted to fantasy yet?
You can definitely give the Wheel of time a try, but there probably are better (re-)entry points in the world of fantasy. Some critique the series that is stretched too long intentionally.
I would say start with Mistborn, a complete trilogy is out and the books arent that big. If you dislike the world or characters you can just stop halfway through the fist book, but i cant really imagine that happening.
Now as where not to start, I would say dont pick up the Malazan series yet. I love it, but i think of it in a way that you had to experience a lot of other, more traditional fantasy writers to appreciate what Erikson does with the genre. It is not an easy read, in some ways it is consciously written to be hard to understand, especially regarding the magic system of the world. And the world is huge and when you kinda start to understand the situation you re thrown into a completely different story-line. This happens multiple times. There are several continents and even "realms", and the writer throws you very few ropes to help you see it clearly. It is a huge world and complex story, told (mostly) from the perspective of people who see and understand very little of it.
Also, Malazan kinda ruined the Black Company for me, since i read the former first. Basically i felt like Erikson took many tools that could have made B.C. great, and he used them better, so I couldn't appreciate Glenn Cook that much, even though he came much much sooner.
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erikson / eselmont have the best setting imho and its my favourite series.
sanderson is nearly on par with erikson /eselmont
rothfuß made 2 great books - lets see how far he can go - currently i have no hopes at all - he is doing whatever the fuck he does but it certainly is not writting book 3.
terry goodking has some good work and whenever i see robin hobb in a list i have to vomit - such a fucking bad author.
currently reading abercrombies first law books again cuz its been some time since i did - lets just say that this reminds me that glokta is the best character ever made.
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For those of have completed Wheel of Time, how would you rate its conclusion?
I enjoyed the first 6 books, but it became so bogged down with filler afterwards. I think I checked out at about book 9 or so. Does Sandersons material redeem it?
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Malazan is pretty good but it is definitely not an entry level fantasy. You might wanna read alot more other fantasy before heading to Malazan simply because Malazan takes alot more patience is kinda unorthodox in style.
Wheel of Time does get just as complicated as Malazan around the middle books but it is alot more classical fantasy at the start which is much to get a hang off. It is however extremely long tho so it takes alot of commitment (14 books is a really long reading yow)
On September 19 2018 10:41 Amarok wrote:
For those of have completed Wheel of Time, how would you rate its conclusion?
I enjoyed the first 6 books, but it became so bogged down with filler afterwards. I think I checked out at about book 9 or so. Does Sandersons material redeem it?
Wheel of Time conclusion is satisfactory. Sanderson excels in exciting climactic pacing and explosive endings so it did have those in the books where he took over which is a improvement in the series.
The pacing and plot structure/progression got alot better as Sanderson took over but it lost the subtlety and descriptive prose that RJ had which Sanderson could not exactly replicate(good that he didn't try too cause i don't think it would end well)
The last book had like an entire chapter consisted of fighting only (which has been hyped since book 1). The last book was just a none-stop battle that you would expect from an ending for a epic fantasy.
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My dream series would have Sanderson in charge of big picture and ground rules, GRRM in charge of world building and characters, and Rowling doing the actual writing.
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Malazan isn't entry level but I wouldn't let that stop you from reading it as soon as possible. It was one of my first fantasy series and I don't regret reading it first. Sure the first book is hard but even hardcore fantasy fans usually have a tough time. It's all worth it in the end.
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As someone who has only read the first two books of Malazan (because I just finished book 2 a few days ago), I think I can safely say it is the best fantasy series. I loved it right from the beginning of book 1, pretty much as soon as I could grasp anything about what was happening my curiosity was piqued and my brain was ready to devour Erikson's words. Not only is he a great storyteller, but he has a strong and interesting writing style as well.
I have read ASOIAF, LotR, Mistborn, First Law, some Discworld as well as many other fantasy series (and sci-fi too!). The recent Broken Earth series was very good but not really epic fantasy. I need to put Hobb higher up on my TBR pile as many keep mentioning her very highly, so I'm a bit surprised to see you all here saying the opposite.
Re: Black Company, this has been on my TBR list for a while but I'm in the midst of Malazan so I think I will not be able to get to it for a while longer still, especially as I like to take genre breaks after finishing a book or series, but I am still pretty excited to read it. I hope it still holds up when I get around to reading it
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EPT![[image loading]](https://wallup.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/22/364196-Brandon_Sanderson-Stormlight_Archives-748x421.jpg)
