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I decided to start a general topic for discussing fantasy writers and their series, where we could talk about what makes fantasy great, who are the greatest writers and the best series that are out there. I originally just wanted to post something about the series I’m re-reading right now, and found that there’s the “what are you reading thread” and that s about it. There is a popular dedicated thread for A song of Ice and Fire series one less frequented for the Malazan series and many animes/mangas have their own, but very little love is shown in general for other fantasy series, some old threads asking for recommendations.
So I’m opening this thread with two goals in mind:
1. Have a place to share your favorite epic-fantasy writer and or series, and look for recommendations from like-minded people.
For this I created a poll that includes the most popular fantasy writers. For the sake of simplicity I am intentionally leaving out strictly sci-fi series, although I do concede the border between sci-fi and fantasy doesn't really exist. Disclaimer, i haven't read all of these, but I know enough about them to include them on the list. This will serve both as a survey and as a starting point for recommendations. All of the writers and series mentioned are critically acclaimed and satisfy the "epic" fantasy criteria in my opinion. The spectrum is wide from lighter stuff to gritty and dark, but I wont exclude a series based just on being on the one extreme of the spectrum. So here it is:
Poll: Who is the greatest epic fantasy writer of all time?Steven Erikson+ I.C.E (the Malazan series) (21) 22% J.R.R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings) (20) 21% Brandon Sanderson (Mistborn, Stormlight Archives) (17) 18% Robert Jordan (The Wheel of Time) (13) 13% G.R.R Martin (A song of ice and fire) (6) 6% Terry Pratchett (Discworld) (6) 6% Patrick Rothfuss (The Kingkiller Chronicles) (5) 5% J.K. Rowling (Harry Potter) (3) 3% Glenn Cook (The Black Company) (2) 2% Mark Lawrence (The Broken Empire) (2) 2% NONE of the above, and Im personally offended that you left out my favorite fantasy writer (2) 2% Scott Lynch (Gentleman Bastards) (0) 0% Robin Hobb (Realm of the Elderlings) (0) 0% Joe Abercrombie (First Law) (0) 0% 97 total votes Your vote: Who is the greatest epic fantasy writer of all time? (Vote): J.R.R. Tolkien (Lord of the Rings)
(Vote): G.R.R Martin (A song of ice and fire)
(Vote): Steven Erikson+ I.C.E (the Malazan series)
(Vote): Patrick Rothfuss (The Kingkiller Chronicles)
(Vote): J.K. Rowling (Harry Potter)
(Vote): Brandon Sanderson (Mistborn, Stormlight Archives)
(Vote): Glenn Cook (The Black Company)
(Vote): Terry Pratchett (Discworld)
(Vote): Scott Lynch (Gentleman Bastards)
(Vote): Robert Jordan (The Wheel of Time)
(Vote): Robin Hobb (Realm of the Elderlings)
(Vote): Mark Lawrence (The Broken Empire)
(Vote): Joe Abercrombie (First Law)
(Vote): NONE of the above, and Im personally offended that you left out my favorite fantasy writer
The second reason for this thread is to convince you that my pick for the best epic fantasy writer is the right one.
Brandon Sanderson might just be the best fantasy writer of all time, and yes, yes, i ve read pretty much all the big names, and while there are extremely talented lesser known writers I obviously couldn't read (yet), I’m comfortable with declaring Sanderson G.O.A.T. for the following reasons:
1. He uses hard magic systems. Hell, for me, he’s the father and patron saint of hard magic systems. For those who don’t know, hard magic system means that the magic is fairly clearly defined and it is bound by laws, and the characters/readers know these laws or can learn them in the course of the story. The users can’t just overcome obstacles by leveling up to a previously unknown power-level or concentrating really hard. There are things you can do and things you cannot. You cannot invent a new form of magic, just discover something that was possible all along. Example (sort of) from pop culture for hard magic system: Fullmetal alchemist + Show Spoiler +(Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange) (waterbenders bend water and you can stretch this to a wide area of application like ice, water inside of plants and sweat and blood in people, but that s pretty much it. The avatar has access to all 4 of the elements, but he can’t do other stuff either, he won’t be able to read minds or shape-shift etc.)
Counterexamples, well, almost all other Fantasy. You have almost no way of guessing how the character will solve a problem, since you don’t know what is possible and what isn’t: LOTR (how strong is Gandalf? what can he do, what spells can he pull out? Sauron? Arwen? f-ing huge hawks?), Harry Potter (there are almost no limitations, think of basically anything, there could be a spell/potion that does exactly that. Wands are needed for spells? well kinda, but not really. Wands could be super powerful or just a tool) etc. Most fantasy series try to impose some rules but they are mostly vague and work-arounds can be found, especially if the hero is concentrating really hard and is really motivated.
![[image loading]](https://cdnb.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/011/278/401/large/giselle-almeida-mistborn-hero-of-ages-compact.jpg?1528761386)
The first Mistborn trilogy is the absolute best example of a hard magic system, imo. It has been criticized that it’s too exact and science-like. Like that’s bad…. The rules of the world could be explained in 3-4 sentences and they are never violated. Yet creative and surprising solutions and applications can be found, it’s great but simple. Characters can come up with new ways that haven’t been used before, but nothing outside of the confines of the system. And that new trick or way could be imitated by others following the “reveal” (much like videogames or board games). Sure, some people are better and stronger in the use of said magic, but then again some people are 10 times better with sword and shield (or mouse and keyboard) than others, so that is alright with me.
In Stormlight archives the system it is a bit more complex, the magic is multi-faceted, and at the start the characters (hence the reader) aren’t aware of many things. But the sets of rules are there nonetheless. Slowly we learn these rules and what certain type of character will be or won’t be able to do.
Brandon Sanderson came up with not one, not two but several independent hard magic systems that work wonderfully.
2. The characters. I would be exaggerating if I said all the characters are well written and unique. But most of them are! And even if you have seen the archetype of the character before, Sanderson has a different take on it. I especially love his characters that struggle with depression or anxiety or suppressed rage or mental illness. While this definitely isn’t unheard of in fantasy and in literature in general, his take on these problems really took me in. As someone who is fairly introverted, some characters’ inner monologues really hit home for me. And I’m not talking about idle monologues and dialogues that are put there so the writer can claim he “fleshed out” his characters. Especially in Stormlight archives, the inner struggles and progressions of the characters are very much the driving force behind the story. Without spoiling too much, one way a character can take the next step is to admit something they were in denial about or arrive at a conclusion about themselves (or their relationships to others) that they ve been searching for but couldn’t find.
He really has an impressive range, there’s quite a big difference in tone and coloring of the different series. For example Warbreaker is a bit lighter (but wonderfully written) and there isn’t so much violence in it, compared to say the Stormlight books. Most of the characters are some shade of grey, very few completely good or completely bad ones (but obviously some are universally loved or hated).
3. He has passion for writing and seems to be immune for writer’s block. He has, I don’t know, like ten running series (worlds) or possibly more. Some of those are from the same universe called "Cosmere" and are very loosely connected (basically independent words with hidden Easter eggs that let you know they exist in the same universe). You are not required to read all the Cosmere books to understand or enjoy them. And there are several books/series from him that have nothing to do with the Cosmere. As of right now there isn’t a single story that meaningfully connects two or more separate worlds, but there are hints that we will have such novels sometime in the distant future.
To put it in perspective, the Mistborn series is a planned triple trilogy in three completely separate eras (we have one complete trilogy so far) plus there’s a spinoff of 4 books that are not part of the originally planned 9 books. The books are around 500 pages each.
In the same "Cosmere", on a different world the "Stormlight archives" takes place, and that is planned to be a double five-book series. So far 3 books are released and each has around 1200 pages (that translates to about 48 hours of audio recording/book). And no, it’s not stretched intentionally too long, I haven’t had that feeling for a second.
There are 3 other worlds in the Cosmere where we have at least one novel (and at least one will have sequels). And there are novellas and we know there are gonna be new series in the Cosmere, again, on different worlds. Now you might think that whatever, the writer just creates worlds willy-nilly and says some of them are from the Cosmere. No. The Cosmere has its limitations as well, some worlds are in it and some others definitely aren’t. I don’t want to include any spoilers in this post so I won’t explain it any further.
![[image loading]](http://thesocialpotato.maryfaye.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Books-to-Read.png)
If you re into epic and extremely large worlds Brandon Sanderson is number 1. I would guess that the “completion rate” of the Cosmere is somewhere around 20-30% right now and we’re talking about 12 full novels and close to that many novellas and short-stories. Easily 12.000 pages, possibly more. That’s already easily comparable to the Erickson’s Malazan series or Jordan’s Wheel of time (and btw the same Brandon Sanderson is the one who completed the series after Jordan’s death)
But hey, don’t get an anxiety attack from that, you can absolutely read and fully enjoy just one book or one series from the “Cosmere” and ignore that there might be other stories loosely connected to it.
Now I don’t want to diss on other writers, but if you’re a fan of the ASOIAF series or read The Name of the Wind way back when… well, you know why I consider this an important factor.
4. The writing techniques and world-building
Brandon is a world building master. Fake histories, fake geographies, lots of made-up religions and cultures and races and customs and fighting styles, and above all, magic systems. He somehow finds names for his places and people that are easy to remember yet unique. He manages to come up with different societal structures and competing religions for each of his worlds, and presents them in a way that is easy to understand. He uses lots of interesting techniques such as “a book within a book” or the “story insides the story”. Some of his books are narrated from the multiple POV of several characters.
![[image loading]](https://i.redd.it/3f2fjibe1e001.jpg)
There are no fillers, each page contains relevant information. Ok, maybe that s not completely true, but it does feel like it. I have never experienced a “gosh, just get on with the story, who cares about this….” moment while reading. Tiny little details that you scrolled over turn out to be extremely relevant plot devices, or they are foreshadowing things to come. I don’t want to say his worlds are better built then GRRM’s ASOIAF or Tolkien’s LOTR. But they’re very much comparable, and again he has multiple worlds so I have to factor that in. Sure, GRRM made such a crazy impressive fake-history and background story for his characters that you cannot find a writing-inconsistency anymore no matter what, and you can find detailed information about, say, the great-grandfather of any given character from Game of Thrones. But on the down side, he probably has an anxiety attack just thinking about writing any new material in the series, fearing it won’t live up to the crazy high standard that he cultivated, so there’s that.
So, let me know, who do you consider the best fantasy writer, and what are your criteria for selecting him/her.
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United States13815 Posts
The best counter to sanderson being the GOAT is JK roling. Her soft magic world creates a ton of wonder that was so greatly brought to light in the movies. Even the adult world of magic looks really good. If you didn't absolutely freak out in the scene where (I'll save the few from spoilers) they go into the suitcase you're mad.
That being said its tolkein. The godfather created orcs from whole cloth and that makes his impact on fantasy on that lone is as big as any single person. Its hard to see past him and Issac asminov in their words.
That being said I read the mistborn trilogy (I got the whole thing on a single book on my phone) the fastest I've ever read ever and found it much easier and more enjoyable to read then the lord of the rings. I don't know man I just don't know.
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I'm currently being pleasantly surprised by Tad Williamses Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn trilogy. I've read most of the names in the poll so it has gotten hard to get my fix for epic fantasy, Memory Sorrow and Thorn is decent and more importantly, finished.
My favourite has to be the Malazan series, such a huge scope and interesting world, for me it's the culmination of the genre. The ending to the second book is one of the most memorable endings I've ever read. Lots of memorable characters as well (this could be because I've finished the series at the start of this year) and of course, the series is finished with a wordcount of 3.3 million words (compared to LotR 500k). With that many words you really feel part of world after reading about it for weeks (months). [edit] I will say, the first book can be hard to get into, which is doubly painful because it is 600+pages
I do like brandon sanderson and he certainly has less "filler", but his writing style feels more "young-adulty" (even his non-YA novels) which makes me read almost too fast for full enjoyment. That said, it also makes sure you can't stop reading and some of his epic climaxes are simply amazing. I also wouldn't count the entire Cosmere universe as one epic fantasy world, it's more like fanservice.
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Tbh I really like Sanderson and find him highly enjoyable, but he is a tad predictable and schematic. I really liked the Mistborn series and Elantris, but those are the only books I'd consider a heavyweight in terms of characters and imagination.
Erickson vs Tolkien on the other hand is so hard to judge. I think the jump from Tolkien to Erickson is almost as large as the jump from Northern Sagas to Tolkien and both are amazing world writers. I chose Tolkien, because he's the better character writer and Erickson is a bit too heavy on the dread at times, but Malazan is probably the series that can hold it's own the best compared to the genre defining books that Tolkien wrote.
Edit: totally forgot about Patricia McKillip's riddlemaster trilogy, which are some of the finest fantasy books I've ever read.
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You left out some pretty serious contenders:
a)Roger Żelazny - Amber
b)Raymond E. Feist - Riftwar
c)Andrzej Sapkowski - Witcher
d)Sergiej Łukajnienko - Patrol (i guess it wasnt transalted to English???)
e)Robert Silverberg - Majipoor
Also i hate Robin Hobb being on this list. Even as teenager i found her books stupid i tremble at the thought of reading them as adult. And in regards to Sanderson he is superb writer but if You read several of his books in a row You start to realize they are all the same.
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On September 18 2018 03:19 Silvanel wrote:
You left out some pretty serious contenders:
a)Roger Żelazny - Amber
b)Raymond E. Feist - Riftwar
c)Andrzej Sapkowski - Witcher
d)Sergiej Łukajnienko - Patrol (i guess it wasnt transalted to English???)
e)Robert Silverberg - Majipoor
Also i hate Robin Hobb being on this list. Even as teenager i found her books stupid i tremble at the thought of reading them as adult. And in regards to Sanderson he is superb writer but if You read several of his books in a row You start to realize they are all the same.
I should clarify, as I said, I obviously left out many names, partly because I dont know them, partly because the list should be a bit exclusive. My methodology for selecting the names was a mix of personal opinions, reddit polling that stretches through a few years, goodreads rating and bestselling toplists. I know many people hate Robin Hobb but she s widely regarded as one of the best and probably as the best female writer.
Similarly Rothfuss gathered almost as big of a hater-crowd as his devoted fanbase.
From the five you mentioned, Im sad to admit I only heard of one, the Witcher (obviously)
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I really dislike the Riftwar cycle. The first trilogy was decent, the trilogy Feist co-wrote with Janny Wurts was very good, and most of the rest was just duller and duller rehashes of the first trilogy with the same plot points recurring ad nauseam, and depth-less villains being supposedly the puppet master behind the previous villain.
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I agree, first few books are good to very good and later ones become dull and redundant. Still the amount of decent material is bigger than some positions on the list. You just need to stop at some point.
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Love the idea for this thread. Read 7 of the 13 listed there, though it's been more than a decade since last visit for some.
Voted for ASOIAF. Biggest black mark against it is that it's not finished, but the world, characters and history are simultaneously tight and comprehensive, most of the character arcs are superbly executed and there's none better at springing a twist on the reader. It's frustrating that the show has taken the spotlight off just how damn good the core story is.
Agree with the poster who suggested Tad Williams. Memory, Sorrow & Thorn was excellent, though my favourite Williams series is Otherland which sits much closer to Sci Fi than anything else. Have mixed views about Shadowmarch.
Also agree that Robin Hobb doesn't belong in this discussion. Chalk me up as another who thought they were juvenile as a teenager.
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What about Memory, Sorrow and Thorn by Tad Williams ? That trilogy was epic-fantasy-ish and apparently was a big inspiration of GRR Martin and Patrick Rothfuss. It is fairly decent too(at least the first book that i read).
Idk Robin Hobb books might not count as epic fantasy but it wasn't bad. People felt like people not plot devices with her books and it was the first i read a perspective of child that was actually fun from her.
Despite Sanderson being my fantasy author. I cannot really say that i would find his Stormlight or Mistborn as the simply because Mistborn isn't exactly epic-fantasy(the original trilogy is epic fantasy but the sequels stretch to steampunk, flintlock, modern fantasy and eventually space opera) and the Stormlight has 3 out of 10 books out.
So my vote goes for WoT or Malazan, Also I just realized i read most in the list lol
Loved the Mistborn art btw(Vin looks elegant)
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omg, i read this thread just to see if i ever read any of the mentioned books (not that many to be honest) and saw the answers concerning Raymond Feist's riftwar. i have read his "the serpentwar saga" nearly 20 years ago and really enjoyed it and NOW i got to realise that it was just a small part of an epic series??? thats been really stupid of my ~14-years-old-self 
as someone who hasnt read many fantasy books - i usually read stephen king or similar authors - id like to ask if its worth to give the wheel of time a try? i heard of it a long time ago (when i was still a teenager i guess) and always thought that i might read it one day but have always been afraid of the big amount of pages... or should i better start with something else of the mentioned books/authors? Which of these series arent that extensive and probably recommendable for someone who isnt addicted to fantasy yet?
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There is so much fantasy to read, and I am very careful in choosing my series. I am always afraid that I end up in another story of beautiful elfs, violent orcs and whole digging dwarves. I liked LotR a lot, but I do not need more of it.
My three favorite series are:
1. Erikson's Malazan: Such an epic series, it took me months to get through and I just loved it. Funnily enough I normally do not like stories where some individuals are just crazy powerful and basically can slaughter armies by themselves. Yet it didn't bother me at all... probably because Erikson plays with these ideas extremely well and more often than not you (and the character in question) learns that power is a very fragile thing, often lost or overestimated.
2. Abercrombie's First Law series: Violent yet still extremely funny at some points. Wonderful characters and the story itself is just superb with cool twists.
3. Sanderson's Mistborn: I just really enjoyed reading it and the magic system is great, I enjoy it a lot more than the Stormlight magic system. The only drawback for me was that it read like a PG13 Fantasy book sometimes.
ASOIAF: I just do not enjoy Martin's writing style, I could not get past the second book.
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On September 18 2018 18:43 oEkY wrote:omg, i read this thread just to see if i ever read any of the mentioned books (not that many to be honest) and saw the answers concerning Raymond Feist's riftwar. i have read his "the serpentwar saga" nearly 20 years ago and really enjoyed it and NOW i got to realise that it was just a small part of an epic series??? thats been really stupid of my ~14-years-old-self as someone who hasnt read many fantasy books - i usually read stephen king or similar authors - id like to ask if its worth to give the wheel of time a try? i heard of it a long time ago (when i was still a teenager i guess) and always thought that i might read it one day but have always been afraid of the big amount of pages... or should i better start with something else of the mentioned books/authors? Which of these series arent that extensive and probably recommendable for someone who isnt addicted to fantasy yet?
You can definitely give the Wheel of time a try, but there probably are better (re-)entry points in the world of fantasy. Some critique the series that is stretched too long intentionally.
I would say start with Mistborn, a complete trilogy is out and the books arent that big. If you dislike the world or characters you can just stop halfway through the fist book, but i cant really imagine that happening.
Now as where not to start, I would say dont pick up the Malazan series yet. I love it, but i think of it in a way that you had to experience a lot of other, more traditional fantasy writers to appreciate what Erikson does with the genre. It is not an easy read, in some ways it is consciously written to be hard to understand, especially regarding the magic system of the world. And the world is huge and when you kinda start to understand the situation you re thrown into a completely different story-line. This happens multiple times. There are several continents and even "realms", and the writer throws you very few ropes to help you see it clearly. It is a huge world and complex story, told (mostly) from the perspective of people who see and understand very little of it.
Also, Malazan kinda ruined the Black Company for me, since i read the former first. Basically i felt like Erikson took many tools that could have made B.C. great, and he used them better, so I couldn't appreciate Glenn Cook that much, even though he came much much sooner.
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erikson / eselmont have the best setting imho and its my favourite series.
sanderson is nearly on par with erikson /eselmont
rothfuß made 2 great books - lets see how far he can go - currently i have no hopes at all - he is doing whatever the fuck he does but it certainly is not writting book 3.
terry goodking has some good work and whenever i see robin hobb in a list i have to vomit - such a fucking bad author.
currently reading abercrombies first law books again cuz its been some time since i did - lets just say that this reminds me that glokta is the best character ever made.
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For those of have completed Wheel of Time, how would you rate its conclusion?
I enjoyed the first 6 books, but it became so bogged down with filler afterwards. I think I checked out at about book 9 or so. Does Sandersons material redeem it?
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Malazan is pretty good but it is definitely not an entry level fantasy. You might wanna read alot more other fantasy before heading to Malazan simply because Malazan takes alot more patience is kinda unorthodox in style.
Wheel of Time does get just as complicated as Malazan around the middle books but it is alot more classical fantasy at the start which is much to get a hang off. It is however extremely long tho so it takes alot of commitment (14 books is a really long reading yow)
On September 19 2018 10:41 Amarok wrote:
For those of have completed Wheel of Time, how would you rate its conclusion?
I enjoyed the first 6 books, but it became so bogged down with filler afterwards. I think I checked out at about book 9 or so. Does Sandersons material redeem it?
Wheel of Time conclusion is satisfactory. Sanderson excels in exciting climactic pacing and explosive endings so it did have those in the books where he took over which is a improvement in the series.
The pacing and plot structure/progression got alot better as Sanderson took over but it lost the subtlety and descriptive prose that RJ had which Sanderson could not exactly replicate(good that he didn't try too cause i don't think it would end well)
The last book had like an entire chapter consisted of fighting only (which has been hyped since book 1). The last book was just a none-stop battle that you would expect from an ending for a epic fantasy.
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My dream series would have Sanderson in charge of big picture and ground rules, GRRM in charge of world building and characters, and Rowling doing the actual writing.
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Malazan isn't entry level but I wouldn't let that stop you from reading it as soon as possible. It was one of my first fantasy series and I don't regret reading it first. Sure the first book is hard but even hardcore fantasy fans usually have a tough time. It's all worth it in the end.
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As someone who has only read the first two books of Malazan (because I just finished book 2 a few days ago), I think I can safely say it is the best fantasy series. I loved it right from the beginning of book 1, pretty much as soon as I could grasp anything about what was happening my curiosity was piqued and my brain was ready to devour Erikson's words. Not only is he a great storyteller, but he has a strong and interesting writing style as well.
I have read ASOIAF, LotR, Mistborn, First Law, some Discworld as well as many other fantasy series (and sci-fi too!). The recent Broken Earth series was very good but not really epic fantasy. I need to put Hobb higher up on my TBR pile as many keep mentioning her very highly, so I'm a bit surprised to see you all here saying the opposite.
Re: Black Company, this has been on my TBR list for a while but I'm in the midst of Malazan so I think I will not be able to get to it for a while longer still, especially as I like to take genre breaks after finishing a book or series, but I am still pretty excited to read it. I hope it still holds up when I get around to reading it
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On September 18 2018 22:55 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2018 18:43 oEkY wrote:omg, i read this thread just to see if i ever read any of the mentioned books (not that many to be honest) and saw the answers concerning Raymond Feist's riftwar. i have read his "the serpentwar saga" nearly 20 years ago and really enjoyed it and NOW i got to realise that it was just a small part of an epic series??? thats been really stupid of my ~14-years-old-self as someone who hasnt read many fantasy books - i usually read stephen king or similar authors - id like to ask if its worth to give the wheel of time a try? i heard of it a long time ago (when i was still a teenager i guess) and always thought that i might read it one day but have always been afraid of the big amount of pages... or should i better start with something else of the mentioned books/authors? Which of these series arent that extensive and probably recommendable for someone who isnt addicted to fantasy yet? You can definitely give the Wheel of time a try, but there probably are better (re-)entry points in the world of fantasy. Some critique the series that is stretched too long intentionally. I would say start with Mistborn, a complete trilogy is out and the books arent that big. If you dislike the world or characters you can just stop halfway through the fist book, but i cant really imagine that happening. Now as where not to start, I would say dont pick up the Malazan series yet. I love it, but i think of it in a way that you had to experience a lot of other, more traditional fantasy writers to appreciate what Erikson does with the genre. It is not an easy read, in some ways it is consciously written to be hard to understand, especially regarding the magic system of the world. And the world is huge and when you kinda start to understand the situation you re thrown into a completely different story-line. This happens multiple times. There are several continents and even "realms", and the writer throws you very few ropes to help you see it clearly. It is a huge world and complex story, told (mostly) from the perspective of people who see and understand very little of it. Also, Malazan kinda ruined the Black Company for me, since i read the former first. Basically i felt like Erikson took many tools that could have made B.C. great, and he used them better, so I couldn't appreciate Glenn Cook that much, even though he came much much sooner.
thanks for your recommendations, i got a few books to read before i got to buy something new, but i'll definitly keep them in mind
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I voted Jordan. I know I should read the Malazan books, but have somehow never gotten around to it. Read most of the others in the poll, and can see the OP's case for Sanderson. However, nothing he has written so far is as epic in scope as the WoT series (although he did manage to finish WoT in probably an equally or more satisfying 3 books than Jordan himself would have).
Tolkien is the "father" of the genre. But his writing style feels increasingly archaic. That said, I love the world and have read the LotR trilogy more often than any other series. It does lean very heavily on mythology, but then again, for about 50 years since, fantasy writers leaned very heavily on it. Hard to not call him GOAT, but...
Jordan reinvigorated the genre in the 90s. He was one of the pioneers of creating a system to the magic (as opposed to Feist, where wizards (ahem, Pug) were just omnipotent gods, and the only reason the whole thing wasn't resolved sooner was "plot required stupidity"), and created very memorable characters. He was also incredibly good at worldbuilding. The main criticism is that he relied overly on catchphrases and every single one of his female characters are absolutely awfully written. His descriptions of battles are probably still the best in fantasy, particularly any battle between Rand and one (or more) of the Forsaken. He went off the track in books 8 and 9, and only really managed to get back in a direction worth going by book 11, but rereading it for a third time, I realized it wasn't as bad as I remembered. + Show Spoiler +Especially given how the conclusion kinda required Rand to go stark staring mad first, and be in a very dark place first.
Sanderson might overtake Jordan, but the Mistborn trilogy is kinda short, and his Cosmere is mostly a gimmick. That said, it is very impressive to invent not one, but four completely different, yet internally coherent, systems of magic that each work in their own stories. And that's not even counting the Alcatraz, Reckoners or other "non-Cosmere" books. His Mistborn series blew my mind, and set quite a few of the usual tropes upside down. It was very good. But there are many "very good" series, and it is not (yet) a true epos. Three books is not enough to delve into the rich lore surrounding the world. But he isn't done yet with the world, and the Stormlight Archive is shaping up to be more epic in scope as well. So lets revisit the question in a few years 
GRRM is a fantastic author, but he should probably finish his epos before we say much more than that it led the way for some of the more "gritty" fantasy (think Abercrombie) that followed. Similarly to Jordan, however, he seems to have lost the plot somewhere in the middle of his story, but unlike Jordan, doesn't look like he himself will ever be able to put the pieces together again. Maybe the TV series will bring it to a satisfying conclusion, but judging by the seasons when they left behind the books, it is devolving into rather generic fantasy, without a focus on the backstabbing medieval politics that the books did so well. I'll mention Rothfuss here as well, because if there is a slower writer out there than GRRM, it is Rothfuss.
People here appear to hate Hobb, but I quite like her. She does have a weird sadistic style, in which all her main characters have to pass through hell and back to get anything done. I couldn't even get through the last trilogy, because dragging the poor Fitz and Fool out of retirement to make them suffer yet more tragedy felt like too much. It's time for new characters (although the Soldier's Son trilogy showed that she is better sticking to the Rain Wilds side of that fantasy world). That said, I wouldn't call anything epic, and her her world is not all that fleshed out, as she focuses far more on characters than the world itself.
Pratchett is fantastic, one of my favourite authors, but how is he in that list? He doesn't write epic fantasy. He writes fantastical (satirical) comedy.
JK Rowling is disqualified for being alternate earth, and not actually having to do any world building. Also, the first few books are incredibly childish. If alternate earth is allowed, then I nominate Neil Gaiman. The Sandman is fantastic (but not epic)
I dislike the First Law books. It is 3 books of misery with an unsatisfying conclusion. It is also not particularly well written.
Haven't read the rest, and will get on with it.
Other mentions:
Tad Williams is okay. Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is a good idea, but not all that well executed. I much prefer Otherland (more cyberpunk than fantasy), which is very good. Even so, he's a bit verbose.
Feist wrote decent fantasy for young adults, but I wouldn't call it "great", nor him a great author.
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do any of you have an up to date goodreads account? You can see my profile here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/71294748?shelf=read
the ratings are mostly based on memories because I only started the account last year.
Another original fantasy series is the Raksura series by Martha Wells, very suited for people who like fantasy but are a bit tired of all the humans.
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I love Malazan but i have to say that it falls off steeply during last few books. In tome 8,9,10 i could only cheer for antagonists. It was so hopelessly streamlined and obvious the that protagonists are gonna prevail despite doing one retared thing after another that i had time finishing it. Nevertheless i enjoyed first few books very much (with excpetions to Karsa Orlong parts which i loathed)
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I like the First Law books (ofc in part because of Glokta), but the beginning is quite slow. Nothing really happens during the first 2/3rd of book 1.
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On September 19 2018 10:41 Amarok wrote:
For those of have completed Wheel of Time, how would you rate its conclusion?
I enjoyed the first 6 books, but it became so bogged down with filler afterwards. I think I checked out at about book 9 or so. Does Sandersons material redeem it?
Definitely agreed to Sanderson's Wheel of time-books being great. The plot becomes a lot thicker and Sanderson is a great battle writer and probably a better character writer than RJ, so especially the female cast becomes less terrible over the last books. It's actually a lot of action later on, but it is the finale, so that's to be expected. I really enjoyed especially the last book.
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On September 19 2018 20:37 Acrofales wrote:
He was also incredibly good at worldbuilding. The main criticism is that he relied overly on catchphrases and every single one of his female characters are absolutely awfully written.
That's a pretty significant problem though. It's not like they make up an insignificant portion of the cast. I might need to revisit that series, but I didn't feel that Jordan is known for his memorable characters either. The only one that stands out as being consistently interesting is Matt. Rand and Perrin started out decently, but turned one dimensional as the books went on. Lan is the other one that stands out as decent + Show Spoiler +though getting shackled to Nynaeve was a cruel of Jordan :p
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was going to add a longer post but i pretty much agree with everything acrofales said except that i have finished malazan and although i think its probably the best overall story in terms of making you feel and badass shit going down, it's just so damn hard for half the people that normally read these books to get into and i can completely understand why. if some other authors could finish a damn series they might be contenders *cough*fuckyoupat*cough* and sanderson will surely finish everything he starts (and so far i've been greatly pleased with how they've turned out) - mostly depends on how good stormlight is when it's done. i have high hopes but sanderson is getting a little more sjw-y over time so hopefully he doesnt turn preachy like goodkind did
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I hope it's fine to necro this thread. The What are You Reading thread is even deader.
I've been reading Ursula LeGuin's EarthSea Quartet. I've never much bothered with the mid-century stuff. It mostly seems like the literary equivalent of pulp; a slightly better quality than D&D cards. I'm not sure that my opinion has changed, but it is surprisingly interesting. Some things I've noticed about her style:
-the pacing is very fast
-only some events are given their own scene, sometimes whole journeys might be given only a pararaph
-the character development is quite straightforward, but characters have strong motivations and unique personalities. I do hate "telling" the audience, but it's pretty effective.
-She doesn't sweat the world-building. There are plenty of little snippets about places or people or magic and sometimes they get explained later and sometimes not.
As I've said before, I'm interested in seeing how much we can remove ourselves from the self-awareness and self-referentialism of the time. LeGuin's approach almost treats characters as little carven figurines that she can move around. While some may see that as a negative, I personally find that too many authors get stuck inside a character's head.
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United States13815 Posts
I am once again recommending the phantom badgers series. Dark tide is my favorite book of the last decade.
Most of the stuff I read these days is using just trash on kindle unlimited. If people want recommendations on trash litrpg, superhero, and space sci-fi I will but idk if this thread wants that instead of normal fantasy books.
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Has anyone read Harry Turtledove? I was looking up the phrase "Owls to Athens" and found a book with the same title. Apparently it's an alternate history?
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On February 14 2022 04:34 Jerubaal wrote:
Has anyone read Harry Turtledove? I was looking up the phrase "Owls to Athens" and found a book with the same title. Apparently it's an alternate history?
I have read one of his alternative takes on WW2. (the Darkness series) It's mediocre. Entertaining, but none of the characters or ideas were particularly memorable. Magic Stalingrad was probably the best setting in the series and did a decent job of translating a horrendous trench war in the middle of winter to a setting where weapons were made of magic, but that's about it.
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So, if I'm looking for inspiration or to critique, that's a pass?
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So what's a good Sanderson series to start with?
I noticed Pratchett's Discworld was on the list. I think Pratchett is a great writer and his books are very entertaining, but, jeez louise, his glibness starts to wear on you after a while. That's the sort of self-referentiality I'm looking to avoid.
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On February 24 2022 05:03 Jerubaal wrote:
So what's a good Sanderson series to start with?
I noticed Pratchett's Discworld was on the list. I think Pratchett is a great writer and his books are very entertaining, but, jeez louise, his glibness starts to wear on you after a while. That's the sort of self-referentiality I'm looking to avoid.
Mistborn trilogy.
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I think the Mistborn trilogy and his first major book Elantris are both good starting points.
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On February 24 2022 09:43 Archeon wrote:
I think the Mistborn trilogy and his first major book Elantris are both good starting points.
I tend to disagree. Elantris to me was one of his worst books and frankly hard to get though because it felt so slow. I would start with Mistborn 1-3 and then possibly Stormlight Archives 1.
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On February 24 2022 06:51 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 05:03 Jerubaal wrote:
So what's a good Sanderson series to start with?
I noticed Pratchett's Discworld was on the list. I think Pratchett is a great writer and his books are very entertaining, but, jeez louise, his glibness starts to wear on you after a while. That's the sort of self-referentiality I'm looking to avoid. Mistborn trilogy.
Can absolutely second that. Mistborn is a must read if you are a fantasy fan.
EDIT: I didn't really get warm with Elantris but Stormligt archives is pretty good as well
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On February 24 2022 05:03 Jerubaal wrote:
So what's a good Sanderson series to start with?
I noticed Pratchett's Discworld was on the list. I think Pratchett is a great writer and his books are very entertaining, but, jeez louise, his glibness starts to wear on you after a while. That's the sort of self-referentiality I'm looking to avoid.
I agree with others that Mistborn Trilogy is the best introduction for the authors works
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On February 24 2022 18:36 goody153 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 05:03 Jerubaal wrote:
So what's a good Sanderson series to start with?
I noticed Pratchett's Discworld was on the list. I think Pratchett is a great writer and his books are very entertaining, but, jeez louise, his glibness starts to wear on you after a while. That's the sort of self-referentiality I'm looking to avoid. I agree with others that Mistborn Trilogy is the best introduction for the authors works
Mistborn no doubt.
But if you like scifi, Skyward is actually pretty entertaining too. Unfinished series, but should be finished soon(ish). And unlike most authors, when Sanderson says it'll be done soon, it actually will be.
And I'd put Warbreaker ahead of Elantris for a standalone novel. Elantris is pretty heavy and rather clunky. Warbreaker is a lot lighter read (but if you want epic stuff, I guess Elantris has a bit more of it).
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Any particular reason I should read it as a book or is audiobook fine?
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I never listen to audiobooks so I cannot comment on that.
Sanderson is really interesting. I really enjoyed Mistborn, but while there is war, people die, get raped and whatever, it still feels a little bit like PG13 fantasy to me. Also he is horrible with writing lovestories.
Stormlight Archives, I really enjoyed the first two books, intriguing systems, interesting story, great setting and world building. But I have absolut no desire to carry on reading into the next books of the series. It feels like the story can only go downhill from where we currently are.
And while I think the 'magic'-systems he is building are really cool, he is overdoing it for my taste. + Show Spoiler +I mean, Kaladin is basically flying like an F18 fighter-jet at the end of book 2. It is kind of ridiculous.
Interesting writer for sure, but I do not foresee that I will follow all of his book series to the great finale that he is planning at some time far away in the future.
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On February 25 2022 18:01 Malinor wrote:I never hera Audiobooks so I cannot comment on that. Sanderson is really interesting. I really enjoyed Mistborn, but while there is war, people die, get raped and whatever, it still feels a little bit like PG13 fantasy to me. Also he is horrible with writing lovestories. Stormlight Archives, I really enjoyed the first two books, intriguing systems, interesting story, great setting and world building. But I have absolut no desire to carry on reading into the next books of the series. It feels like the story can only go downhill from where we currently are. And while I think the 'magic'-systems he is building are really cool, he is overdoing it for my taste. + Show Spoiler +I mean, Kaladin is basically flying like an F18 fighter-jet at the end of book 2. It is kind of ridiculous. Interesting writer for sure, but I do not foresee that I will follow all of his book series to the great finale that he is planning at some time far away in the future.
Haven't heard a audiobook all my life (well, as a small child when walkmen's still existed) and it's really not my thing. No idea
I do like the Sanderson's supernatural abilities always have a limit on them from the get go basically, but I agree: With Stormlight he may have overdone it a bit.
Brent Weeks is a lot similar in world building and "ability building" but a bit more on the adult side IMO. Can recommend as a follow up to Sanderson 
+ Show Spoiler +If you don't know who Durzo Blint is, you are not a fantasy fan IMO :D
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On February 24 2022 16:52 InFiNitY[pG] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 09:43 Archeon wrote:
I think the Mistborn trilogy and his first major book Elantris are both good starting points. I tend to disagree. Elantris to me was one of his worst books and frankly hard to get though because it felt so slow. I would start with Mistborn 1-3 and then possibly Stormlight Archives 1.
That's probably part of why I liked Elantris. Sanderson at times feels a bit formulaic to me and Elantris took more time to develop characters and felt less like a teens book (which is often intentional) with action in predictable intervals. Fantasy and especially Sanderson feels a bit streamlined to me nowadays and Elantris was less so. Stormlight takes it's time on occasion too though.
I really liked Stormlight archives so far, but I don't think it's a good entry point unless you're into large sagas that on occasion describe a random merchant's travel experience for worldbuilding purposes.
On February 25 2022 18:01 Malinor wrote:I never listen to audiobooks so I cannot comment on that. Sanderson is really interesting. I really enjoyed Mistborn, but while there is war, people die, get raped and whatever, it still feels a little bit like PG13 fantasy to me. Also he is horrible with writing lovestories. Stormlight Archives, I really enjoyed the first two books, intriguing systems, interesting story, great setting and world building. But I have absolut no desire to carry on reading into the next books of the series. It feels like the story can only go downhill from where we currently are. And while I think the 'magic'-systems he is building are really cool, he is overdoing it for my taste. + Show Spoiler +I mean, Kaladin is basically flying like an F18 fighter-jet at the end of book 2. It is kind of ridiculous. Interesting writer for sure, but I do not foresee that I will follow all of his book series to the great finale that he is planning at some time far away in the future.
Book 3 moves the focus a bit away from Kaladin and while I'd say that Sanderson keeps escalating and that the middle part feels a bit stretched he also deviates a bit from his tried and true formula and in the end it has imo one of the most satisfying payoffs he ever wrote. Which wouldn't be that high a bar normally since imo he is decent but not great at this, but he really outdid himself in that book.
Like personally I think that what he does with Kaladin in the book is still weak, but what he does with Dalinar and Shallan is spot on.
On a side note this reads a bit like I'm bashing Sanderson and I want to be clear that I think he's one of the best fantasy authors there are. I just think he often plays it a bit too close to the playbook and it's really noticeable after you've read a bunch of his books like me.
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On September 18 2018 03:19 Silvanel wrote:
You left out some pretty serious contenders:
d)Sergiej Łukajnienko - Patrol (i guess it wasnt transalted to English???)
It was translated to English and I would like to remind you that there were even full movie adaptations of it (which were also translated to English, even with dubbing). Sergei Lukyanenko wrote the Watch series (not Patrol, that's a bad Polish translation).
Read all of it, amazing series, highly recommended (movies are hella confusing though).
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On February 25 2022 10:33 Jerubaal wrote:
Any particular reason I should read it as a book or is audiobook fine?
This is probably a personal preference thing tbh
I always go for books most of the time. I just have a mental voice on how character sound in my head while reading so i don't like audiobooks. Also my reading speed sometimes is slow or fast so a measured pace kinda ruins my reading mood when i have to pause
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I don't really like audiobooks because I tend to space out and miss big chunks of what's going on. I'm more of a visual person myself so it's always books for me (I don't much like ebooks either, nothing beats the tactile feel the paper gives you).
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I finally caught the Sanderson bug.
My first Sanderson book was Way of Kings and I've just finished the second book in that series and I'm now ready to start Oathbringer.
I absolutely love it. What an incredible world he's built here.
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Book 5 of Stormlight is out tomorrow.
Its the end of the first arc. How exciting!
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Sanderson is a writing machine. Completely forgot about that.
Still no news on Martin and Rothfuss and I guess we never will hear anything
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Unfortunately 5 was probably the weakest book in the series.
Not bad but expectations were sky high for me.
It was fine when reading it but left a bit off a bitter aftertaste.
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On December 18 2024 01:40 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
Unfortunately 5 was probably the weakest book in the series.
Not bad but expectations were sky high for me.
It was fine when reading it but left a bit off a bitter aftertaste.
I agree, although the standard is high so book 5 is still good. I think he left himself with too much wrapping up to do and some of it just really doesn't hit.
The whole thing with
+ Show Spoiler +
Was mindblowingly stupid.
I still enjoyed it overall, and I think it might work better on a reread.
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I have mostly burnt out on classical epic fantasy and fallen into the progression fantasy area (where most are numbers going up over plot or characters and thus guilty pleasures). After a period of grimdark, which got depressing.
A standout in progression fantasy is Cradle Series by Will Wight. It is a cultivation series at its core but has an interesting world, decent characters and enjoyable combat. It is definitely epic by the time the series finishes. It is focused on being fast paced over going deep in any specific area, which is not a hallmark of epic fantasy.
A common summary is that it is a classical Xianxia but written for a western audience. Which is also a good way to explain it to people a bit more exposed to those types of Chinese "martial arts" series.
I enjoyed the audio book version but read two of them and that was nice as well.
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Cradle is indeed pretty great but probably the only one I found that is consistently better in quality within the genre of progressional fantasy
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Interesting to see Rowling in the list and no mention of Bakker, for example. His work is quite significant - might not be everyone's cup of tea, but his contribution to the genre can't be ignored.
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On February 14 2025 00:49 Nirli wrote:
Interesting to see Rowling in the list and no mention of Bakker, for example. His work is quite significant - might not be everyone's cup of tea, but his contribution to the genre can't be ignored.
About to do my 4th re read of the whole series, pray for me, the last version of me died on the Long Side.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://wallup.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/22/364196-Brandon_Sanderson-Stormlight_Archives-748x421.jpg)
