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On September 18 2018 22:55 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2018 18:43 oEkY wrote:omg, i read this thread just to see if i ever read any of the mentioned books (not that many to be honest) and saw the answers concerning Raymond Feist's riftwar. i have read his "the serpentwar saga" nearly 20 years ago and really enjoyed it and NOW i got to realise that it was just a small part of an epic series??? thats been really stupid of my ~14-years-old-self  as someone who hasnt read many fantasy books - i usually read stephen king or similar authors - id like to ask if its worth to give the wheel of time a try? i heard of it a long time ago (when i was still a teenager i guess) and always thought that i might read it one day but have always been afraid of the big amount of pages... or should i better start with something else of the mentioned books/authors? Which of these series arent that extensive and probably recommendable for someone who isnt addicted to fantasy yet? You can definitely give the Wheel of time a try, but there probably are better (re-)entry points in the world of fantasy. Some critique the series that is stretched too long intentionally. I would say start with Mistborn, a complete trilogy is out and the books arent that big. If you dislike the world or characters you can just stop halfway through the fist book, but i cant really imagine that happening. Now as where not to start, I would say dont pick up the Malazan series yet. I love it, but i think of it in a way that you had to experience a lot of other, more traditional fantasy writers to appreciate what Erikson does with the genre. It is not an easy read, in some ways it is consciously written to be hard to understand, especially regarding the magic system of the world. And the world is huge and when you kinda start to understand the situation you re thrown into a completely different story-line. This happens multiple times. There are several continents and even "realms", and the writer throws you very few ropes to help you see it clearly. It is a huge world and complex story, told (mostly) from the perspective of people who see and understand very little of it. Also, Malazan kinda ruined the Black Company for me, since i read the former first. Basically i felt like Erikson took many tools that could have made B.C. great, and he used them better, so I couldn't appreciate Glenn Cook that much, even though he came much much sooner.
thanks for your recommendations, i got a few books to read before i got to buy something new, but i'll definitly keep them in mind
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I voted Jordan. I know I should read the Malazan books, but have somehow never gotten around to it. Read most of the others in the poll, and can see the OP's case for Sanderson. However, nothing he has written so far is as epic in scope as the WoT series (although he did manage to finish WoT in probably an equally or more satisfying 3 books than Jordan himself would have).
Tolkien is the "father" of the genre. But his writing style feels increasingly archaic. That said, I love the world and have read the LotR trilogy more often than any other series. It does lean very heavily on mythology, but then again, for about 50 years since, fantasy writers leaned very heavily on it. Hard to not call him GOAT, but...
Jordan reinvigorated the genre in the 90s. He was one of the pioneers of creating a system to the magic (as opposed to Feist, where wizards (ahem, Pug) were just omnipotent gods, and the only reason the whole thing wasn't resolved sooner was "plot required stupidity"), and created very memorable characters. He was also incredibly good at worldbuilding. The main criticism is that he relied overly on catchphrases and every single one of his female characters are absolutely awfully written. His descriptions of battles are probably still the best in fantasy, particularly any battle between Rand and one (or more) of the Forsaken. He went off the track in books 8 and 9, and only really managed to get back in a direction worth going by book 11, but rereading it for a third time, I realized it wasn't as bad as I remembered. + Show Spoiler +Especially given how the conclusion kinda required Rand to go stark staring mad first, and be in a very dark place first.
Sanderson might overtake Jordan, but the Mistborn trilogy is kinda short, and his Cosmere is mostly a gimmick. That said, it is very impressive to invent not one, but four completely different, yet internally coherent, systems of magic that each work in their own stories. And that's not even counting the Alcatraz, Reckoners or other "non-Cosmere" books. His Mistborn series blew my mind, and set quite a few of the usual tropes upside down. It was very good. But there are many "very good" series, and it is not (yet) a true epos. Three books is not enough to delve into the rich lore surrounding the world. But he isn't done yet with the world, and the Stormlight Archive is shaping up to be more epic in scope as well. So lets revisit the question in a few years 
GRRM is a fantastic author, but he should probably finish his epos before we say much more than that it led the way for some of the more "gritty" fantasy (think Abercrombie) that followed. Similarly to Jordan, however, he seems to have lost the plot somewhere in the middle of his story, but unlike Jordan, doesn't look like he himself will ever be able to put the pieces together again. Maybe the TV series will bring it to a satisfying conclusion, but judging by the seasons when they left behind the books, it is devolving into rather generic fantasy, without a focus on the backstabbing medieval politics that the books did so well. I'll mention Rothfuss here as well, because if there is a slower writer out there than GRRM, it is Rothfuss.
People here appear to hate Hobb, but I quite like her. She does have a weird sadistic style, in which all her main characters have to pass through hell and back to get anything done. I couldn't even get through the last trilogy, because dragging the poor Fitz and Fool out of retirement to make them suffer yet more tragedy felt like too much. It's time for new characters (although the Soldier's Son trilogy showed that she is better sticking to the Rain Wilds side of that fantasy world). That said, I wouldn't call anything epic, and her her world is not all that fleshed out, as she focuses far more on characters than the world itself.
Pratchett is fantastic, one of my favourite authors, but how is he in that list? He doesn't write epic fantasy. He writes fantastical (satirical) comedy.
JK Rowling is disqualified for being alternate earth, and not actually having to do any world building. Also, the first few books are incredibly childish. If alternate earth is allowed, then I nominate Neil Gaiman. The Sandman is fantastic (but not epic)
I dislike the First Law books. It is 3 books of misery with an unsatisfying conclusion. It is also not particularly well written.
Haven't read the rest, and will get on with it.
Other mentions:
Tad Williams is okay. Memory, Sorrow and Thorn is a good idea, but not all that well executed. I much prefer Otherland (more cyberpunk than fantasy), which is very good. Even so, he's a bit verbose.
Feist wrote decent fantasy for young adults, but I wouldn't call it "great", nor him a great author.
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do any of you have an up to date goodreads account? You can see my profile here:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/71294748?shelf=read
the ratings are mostly based on memories because I only started the account last year.
Another original fantasy series is the Raksura series by Martha Wells, very suited for people who like fantasy but are a bit tired of all the humans.
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I love Malazan but i have to say that it falls off steeply during last few books. In tome 8,9,10 i could only cheer for antagonists. It was so hopelessly streamlined and obvious the that protagonists are gonna prevail despite doing one retared thing after another that i had time finishing it. Nevertheless i enjoyed first few books very much (with excpetions to Karsa Orlong parts which i loathed)
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I like the First Law books (ofc in part because of Glokta), but the beginning is quite slow. Nothing really happens during the first 2/3rd of book 1.
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On September 19 2018 10:41 Amarok wrote:
For those of have completed Wheel of Time, how would you rate its conclusion?
I enjoyed the first 6 books, but it became so bogged down with filler afterwards. I think I checked out at about book 9 or so. Does Sandersons material redeem it?
Definitely agreed to Sanderson's Wheel of time-books being great. The plot becomes a lot thicker and Sanderson is a great battle writer and probably a better character writer than RJ, so especially the female cast becomes less terrible over the last books. It's actually a lot of action later on, but it is the finale, so that's to be expected. I really enjoyed especially the last book.
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On September 19 2018 20:37 Acrofales wrote:
He was also incredibly good at worldbuilding. The main criticism is that he relied overly on catchphrases and every single one of his female characters are absolutely awfully written.
That's a pretty significant problem though. It's not like they make up an insignificant portion of the cast. I might need to revisit that series, but I didn't feel that Jordan is known for his memorable characters either. The only one that stands out as being consistently interesting is Matt. Rand and Perrin started out decently, but turned one dimensional as the books went on. Lan is the other one that stands out as decent + Show Spoiler +though getting shackled to Nynaeve was a cruel of Jordan :p
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was going to add a longer post but i pretty much agree with everything acrofales said except that i have finished malazan and although i think its probably the best overall story in terms of making you feel and badass shit going down, it's just so damn hard for half the people that normally read these books to get into and i can completely understand why. if some other authors could finish a damn series they might be contenders *cough*fuckyoupat*cough* and sanderson will surely finish everything he starts (and so far i've been greatly pleased with how they've turned out) - mostly depends on how good stormlight is when it's done. i have high hopes but sanderson is getting a little more sjw-y over time so hopefully he doesnt turn preachy like goodkind did
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I hope it's fine to necro this thread. The What are You Reading thread is even deader.
I've been reading Ursula LeGuin's EarthSea Quartet. I've never much bothered with the mid-century stuff. It mostly seems like the literary equivalent of pulp; a slightly better quality than D&D cards. I'm not sure that my opinion has changed, but it is surprisingly interesting. Some things I've noticed about her style:
-the pacing is very fast
-only some events are given their own scene, sometimes whole journeys might be given only a pararaph
-the character development is quite straightforward, but characters have strong motivations and unique personalities. I do hate "telling" the audience, but it's pretty effective.
-She doesn't sweat the world-building. There are plenty of little snippets about places or people or magic and sometimes they get explained later and sometimes not.
As I've said before, I'm interested in seeing how much we can remove ourselves from the self-awareness and self-referentialism of the time. LeGuin's approach almost treats characters as little carven figurines that she can move around. While some may see that as a negative, I personally find that too many authors get stuck inside a character's head.
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I am once again recommending the phantom badgers series. Dark tide is my favorite book of the last decade.
Most of the stuff I read these days is using just trash on kindle unlimited. If people want recommendations on trash litrpg, superhero, and space sci-fi I will but idk if this thread wants that instead of normal fantasy books.
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Has anyone read Harry Turtledove? I was looking up the phrase "Owls to Athens" and found a book with the same title. Apparently it's an alternate history?
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On February 14 2022 04:34 Jerubaal wrote:
Has anyone read Harry Turtledove? I was looking up the phrase "Owls to Athens" and found a book with the same title. Apparently it's an alternate history?
I have read one of his alternative takes on WW2. (the Darkness series) It's mediocre. Entertaining, but none of the characters or ideas were particularly memorable. Magic Stalingrad was probably the best setting in the series and did a decent job of translating a horrendous trench war in the middle of winter to a setting where weapons were made of magic, but that's about it.
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So, if I'm looking for inspiration or to critique, that's a pass?
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So what's a good Sanderson series to start with?
I noticed Pratchett's Discworld was on the list. I think Pratchett is a great writer and his books are very entertaining, but, jeez louise, his glibness starts to wear on you after a while. That's the sort of self-referentiality I'm looking to avoid.
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On February 24 2022 05:03 Jerubaal wrote:
So what's a good Sanderson series to start with?
I noticed Pratchett's Discworld was on the list. I think Pratchett is a great writer and his books are very entertaining, but, jeez louise, his glibness starts to wear on you after a while. That's the sort of self-referentiality I'm looking to avoid.
Mistborn trilogy.
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I think the Mistborn trilogy and his first major book Elantris are both good starting points.
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EPT
