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Australia8532 Posts
On November 19 2010 14:33 deth wrote:
Everyone should stop assuming they know timings etc of the build until either
a) artosis provides replays
b) " writes up the bo extensively
Agreed. Artosis says "X is happening on the KN servers!" and a lot of people go nah not true; I just looked out my window and saw a blue car.. Tell me I'm lying?? Lol
P.s. Deth did I just watch a replay of u vs CatZ on HD channel?
If so, epic
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Yup! I'm very interested in this replay.
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On November 19 2010 16:13 BWILLdur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2010 16:01 tikalal wrote:
I wonder if one of my regular builds would hold it off?
From the timings of the example posted earlier, I'd have 1 zealot and 2 stalkers when the 5 marines come up the ramp (5:30), At 5:45 I'd have another stalker, and at 6:07 I'd add 1 stalker and 1 zealot. This build cuts no probes so I'd have 30 probes to their 19 at 6:07.
Even if I needed to pull probes off, think I could survive, maybe even stay ahead?. I just messed with it some but your scv count is way off I think. At 5:00 you have 10 marines at your own ramp, 2 rax's, an orbital and 19 scvs. You also have enough energy for a scan at this point, and enough minerals in the bank (605) to expand if you don't like what you see with the scan. This is primarily an opener vs zerg because lings without speed get poop'd on by marines. I don't know enough about this build as to when it actually hits the front door of the enemy though. You could skip the first mule and use the first energy to scan too, but that will delay your expansion.
Just from the replay that guy posted earlier, he had 5 marines at the opponent's ramp at 5:30 with 5 SCVs coming at 5:45. They had 19 SCVs total at 6:07, which is when I have 30 probes.
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On November 19 2010 12:07 Raiden X wrote:Artosis should provide a replay. Or we can't help him. 
haha lol ugh strat forum jokes shouldn't actually make me laugh out loud
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This looks very much like it:
STRainbow v ogsTheWind
http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/2963
Goes for 2 rax in base, then 3 proxy. No gas at all, hits right before speed upgrade and before any bannelings can be built.
edit: He doesn't scan, as he seems to have enough info from his scouting scv, but I would suspect timings are very similar...
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^Though I doubt it is, I hope that somehow is it. I wish they had never changed the mining from BW. Everyone has a ton of money for no reason because of it.
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I dunno, he went a very late gas, so a very late speedling and a very late baneling nest. I usually build my baneling nest after i started lair, but this could be easily done before lair
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er this "build" has been around since early beta, it's about as basic as it gets, although it's slightly different than it was in beta because now you gotta build a depot first, but otherwise it's the same ez concept. maybe it died down temporarily with the silly depot req change so it seems "new". and crawlers ARE a valid counter
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I speculate that 90% of this is exaggeration from Artosis, I love you artosis and all you do, but you are known for "everyone is so much stronger than us, uhhh, why do my limbs hurt all the time" (Thanks iNcontrol)
Please prove me wrong so i can watch some OP build that Blizz has to start working on asap to fix xD
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1 gate robo gets crushed by this so hard. Many terrans are doing this on NA ladder, i'd say 25% do this build, 25% go 4 rax, and 50% go for marine/banshee/raven at least in games I've had in the past few days.
To stop it you have to at least 2 gate and be very diligent about scouting.
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something does not add up here, T wastes first scan to see whats up and loses mule but putting 3 spines is a waste puting Z way behind?
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so if you build a roach warren but still make drones and not any roaches, could you keep an eye on things and spawn some roaches only if/when he moves out? Possibly arranging your build so that you always have a bit of spare larva for emergencies? Surely just throwing down the warren for safety won't hurt your econ that badly.
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Perhaps saving larvae could do something for this. Build Roach Warren, keep low drone production going, when you scout him moving out morph some Roaches and turn them all into Drones if he expands.
Also, if Roaches deal with this effectively, wouldn't Roach pressure be a good counter to this build (build Roaches to defend and attack with them if they don't pressure you)? The Roach attack would probably buy you time to drone+expand or deal heavy economic damage. Perhaps Roach travel time would be too long, though, making this kind of toothless, or maybe the wall-in would be strong enough to allow the Marines to win the fight easily.
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There's obviously a huge emphasis on saving larva to be used on as many drones as possible. If this is the case, why not build a bunch of queens? They can soak up decent damage and spread a ton of creep early on. Your larva remain untouched, the hatch provides another unit producing cycle. The drawback is you're behind on tech. Perhaps after the first hundred gas for ling speed, pull drones off gas as you pump queens. Queens + speed lings might be able to stop this push on creep.
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remind me of my silver day which got the mass marines terran all the time=_= the solution is rather simple(the opponents are pretty average players obviously) - just always cautious they do this strat and run a ling to the ramp to see if there are >5marines and he is still making them, pumping lings nonstop(maybe bling if he is slow), hide them to unusual spot(avoid they scan), surround and kill ->bling bust depot speedling run by = gg.
However, i ve always supposed that this strat will work pretty well if executed correctly at high level (eg bringing a tank with them or earlier timing attack). i hate foxer for a passion because of my own experience 
edit: holy sh!T, i just watched this and i am speechless if every tvz will be like this in gsl3 lol http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/2963
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Hmm Yesterday I've lost a game against a 2 rax that seemed to look like what Artosis describes. Note that I played badly and I won't provide the replay (one of those nights) because my own timings being off that wouldn't help the thread at all. However here is what I think happens with this build:
From the terran part : build a fast 2 rax (second rax was started while the first wasn't finished, I managed to delay it a bit by drone killing the scv building it but that was like 3s delay). Build marines and do a delayed push with a variable amount of marines (scan went down before the attack as Artosis said).
He attacked with around 15 marines in a tight ball when my lair was starting.
From my point of view:
Close position on Metal so I went 14 gas/pool then expand at 15. Scouted the two rax as I said (I believe they went down at around 12/13 scvs not so sure). . So I thought it was a foxer wannabee and made a batch of lings (around 10/15 to surround the first rines). They were too early maybe because he didn't attack with like 5 marines.I sent a ling at the front seen a few marines (not that much). Start a lair. My food is around 35 at that time. Then a ball of 15 marines inc.
I can't attack with the speedlings I have cause they would die instantly while not killing rines (more marines than speedlings is bad news). So I station them behind to prepare a surround. Unfortunately he rushes between the expo hatch and the mineral lines with his marine ball and it prevents any surround (close position, the new batch of lings wasn't ready before he was at my base. Also : bad reaction time on my part, I played bad the whole night)). Anyway the idea is that I send my hatched lings in my main, lose the expo drones cause I played bad and think I started a baneling nest but I didn't at that time. The expo goes down and with the broodlings I surround, clean the rines.
10s later the same push arrives, it appears I didn't start my baneling nest at all (playing mind tricks on myself  ) So gg. (The push was followed a bit later by some helions anyway).
Thoughts:
Lings won't cut it if you don't make a lot of them. The marines walking in a ball will destroy your lings easy in my opinion. Early Baneling nest should be a response (like the old 1 base baneling bust timing maybe). However timing wise if you're on two bases I don't see it happen fast enough for the first push. For the second push I should have had some banes ready though.
If you can scout it early, maybe a baneling all in on one base can win you outright the game too but that should be tested.
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MadFrog put one more hatch in his base after he saw double rax of BratOK, and won easily. The key is that terran sacs eco/tech for early pressure but once zerg has double hatch T can't do shit. Zerg's economy booms after they plant an exp.
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On November 19 2010 19:03 bokeevboke wrote:
MadFrog put one more hatch in his base after he saw double rax of BratOK, and won easily. The key is that terran sacs eco/tech for early pressure but once zerg has double hatch T can't do shit. Zerg's economy booms after they plant an exp.
the problem is before the economy kicks in the rush will be at your door, economy starts once you start saturating your expo, not once you plant it.
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
Blizzard should've given out less random buffs for Terran. 45 HP marines klol? What exactly warranted those 5 HP?
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Cool build!
Just tried this vs. Hard AI and won at around the same timings as the linked replays.
Based on the replays, I realized the lynchpins for this build's success is to keep falling back to the last rally point every time the marine ball drops significantly (imho, less than 11 marines) and continual pressure.
This results in an ever-increasing sized bio ball o'doom.
By 16th minute I had 32+ marines and a thor which never saw battle. I had upgraded to 2/1 without ever using stim once.
Stutter-step-in to maximize damage (every marine firing), and
using stutter step to withdraw and regroup.
Marine rushy
It was awesome! Completely crushed AI's Roach + Hydralisk build.
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EPT
