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On September 27 2011 22:19 Kukaracha wrote:
I was homeless when I came to France for the first time. So yes, I've been in contact with those people. And yes, they're human beings. Not rats.
You don't know what it is to be an outcast until you're one. Period. "But you should integrate society", this is a stupid as telling a poor man to "just be rich instead".
If you're a criminal, thus hurt people, I'm not gonna treat you like a respectable human being.
Your outcast point is true, but it doesn't justify being a criminal in any way AND the gypsies we're talking about actually have huge possibilities to get jobs, education and change their lives here - but they don't want to. Go figure.
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On September 27 2011 22:19 n0ave wrote:
I remember back in February this year when I changed my ID, there were many gypsies sitting at the line to get their ID, and were like 15 persons with the same "adress", and they were fingerprinted by the local police, because they didn't knew to read or write, and they didn't had a signature.
I know that this isn't for TL, but I just saw the gypsies thread... so yeah.
I don't hate them, but they just don't belong, and will never get integrated into a normal society because they don't want to, and you can't force anyone in a democracy.
The state can force people to send their children to school in a democracy, freedom isn't limitless. If those gypsies allegedly live off welfare they are dependent on the state.
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On September 27 2011 22:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Kukaracha, I think you're the one who doesn't know who gypsies are and how they function. If you knew the facts, you wouldn't be talking the way you're talking.
90% of them DO fit the stereotype.
On the other hand, most of us here would probably be perfectly happy living alongside a NORMAL gypsy.
Yeah show us those numbers!
You're making wild assumptions out of your own experience I guess? Why should we believe that YOU know that 90% of them fit the stereotype, have you made some sort of study we others are unaware of? Please enlighten us.
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Most countries in Europe got this same problem. Here in my town there are some gypsies and i must say most are stealing stuff and doing illegal stuff.
They are always crying that they dont got the same rights as everyone but at the same time they steal stuff from our homes and get away with stuff that any other person wouldnt dare to do. They are poor and barely make a enough money to to feed themselfs but they spawn a horde of 10 kids to use them for stealing, begging and living on welfare.
I live on the outskirts of my town and there is quite a nice forest close by but the gypsies started cutting down the trees which is illegal and started building houses in a middle of a fucking forest. Now instead of a forest i see some stupid shacks on the hill and their number is increasing. If anyone else tried to do the same he would get demolished right away but not gypsies because yea they need to get treated differently because you've guessed it "they dont got human rights yo ".
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Incidentally, it didn't take long for Godwin's Law to come into effect in this thread did it?
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On September 27 2011 22:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Kukaracha, I think you're the one who doesn't know who gypsies are and how they function. If you knew the facts, you wouldn't be talking the way you're talking.
90% of them DO fit the stereotype.
On the other hand, most of us here would probably be perfectly happy living alongside a NORMAL gypsy.
Also, noone is saying we should round up every gypsy and give them a kick in the behind. It's about the slum villages they create, not the people who contribute to society and educate their children. And to the people calling our reactions primitive, we have done loads to help the gypsy minority get on their feet, their response is no thanks. That's the reason people are aggravated.
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On September 27 2011 21:49 3Form wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 21:25 Pandemona wrote:On September 27 2011 21:21 Probe1 wrote:If the article is any judge of why then they are thieves, drug peddlers and tricksters. The ill fame of Bulgarian gypsies spreads far beyond the borders of the poorest country of the European Union. In Europe, gypsies live in France, Germany and many other countries of Western Europe. They live separately from the society and make their living on drugs, swindling and robbery. Doesn't sound prejudiced at all.. I believe negative stereotypes enforced by what all stereotypes originate from: The worst of the worst representing an entire group, has led to the distrust of gypsies or "The Rom". Have you ever encountered them? There are THOUSANDS of gypsis from romania who come over to England ILLEGALLY to pick pocket us and to enduce sex slavery. Was a huge documentary on ITV on it about 1-2 years ago. SourceThey are known for trickery and thievery. You obviously havent encountered them or heard about them before. ROFL He quotes the Daily Mail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Most gypsies in the UK are Irish travellers, there are in comparison few Romanies. The Romanies get so much shit that they don't deserve. What is wrong with respecting other cultural traditions? Oh yeah I kind of forgot that it's our duty as Western Europeans to civilise everybody.
I know the Daily Mail isn't the best source but it is true that these travellers are a problem, you've got that whole Dale Farm thing going on at the moment and did you not see the thing about many of them using slave labour a couple weeks ago? Going round homeless shelters offering vulnerable people a "job" and a place to sleep and they end up having to do back breaking work all day, for no pay and virtually no food, they end up malnutrioned and some had been doing it for like 15 years.
On September 27 2011 22:02 LedFarmer wrote:
I have a question from someone from the UK, have you ever seen the movie "Snatch" they have these people who live in caravans called "pikies" are those like UK gypsies?
Yeah they're the Irish travellers, they're not quite like they're depicted in that film but that's the gist of it.
On September 27 2011 22:26 Zechs wrote:
Incidentally, it didn't take long for Godwin's Law to come into effect in this thread did it?
Probably because "happenings" in 1943 in Bulgaria were mentioned in the OP itself.
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On September 27 2011 22:21 m00nchile wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 22:19 Kukaracha wrote:
I was homeless when I came to France for the first time. So yes, I've been in contact with those people. And yes, they're human beings. Not rats.
You don't know what it is to be an outcast until you're one. Period. "But you should integrate society", this is a stupid as telling a poor man to "just be rich instead". A poor man is not poor by choice. Not sending your children to school and living off stealing is.
Of course, because you can magically land a job and have successful children even though you're homeless and have no legal income whatsoever.
"Hey, I'm Paul, I can't write and I have the reputation to pickpocket people, do you have a job for me?"
"Hi, I'm John, Paul's son, I can't write neither and also have the same reputation, can I become an engineer?"
What would you answer, huh?
My family never stole anything but we had plenty of people who helped us. If no one had helped us, I wouldn't be here today.
Things just don't "happen" when you want them to. Welcome to the real world.
Oh, and you know, that democracy thing... doesn't exist. Sorry to burst the bubble.
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On September 27 2011 22:26 Zechs wrote:
Incidentally, it didn't take long for Godwin's Law to come into effect in this thread did it?
Laugh all you want, extremism is rising in Europe, again. Not the same scapegoats, but you can't fool people THAT easily, no, you need another toy.
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On September 27 2011 22:26 SkelA wrote:
They are always crying that they dont got the same rights as everyone but at the same time they steal stuff from our homes and get away with stuff that any other person wouldnt dare to do. They are poor and barely make a enough money to to feed themselfs but they spawn a horde of 10 kids to use them for stealing, begging and living on welfare.
Totally agree. People that don't live in countries with many gypsies will never understand this.
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On September 27 2011 22:23 AcuWill wrote:
Just curious how a similar thread made by a US citizen about black people would go?
You could simply exchange black for gypsy in the majority of statements in this thread and you wouldn't miss a beat.
Having said that, marginalizing an entire group of people based on the actions of a few (or even a majority) is always wrong.
How many black people are gangbangers, thieves and criminals? How many are well adjusted people that do no harm to their surroundings? If you'd look at the statistics, I'd wager they are no better or worse than white people, or most minorities. A gypsy living in an apartment he bought/pays rent for, goes to work and send his children to school is an exception. That's the difference. As we said, it's not about race, it's the lifestyle they choose and drag their children along with them.
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On September 27 2011 22:31 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 22:26 Zechs wrote:
Incidentally, it didn't take long for Godwin's Law to come into effect in this thread did it? Laugh all you want, extremism is rising in Europe, again. Not the same scapegoats, but you can't fool people THAT easily, no, you need another toy.
Sorry, i don't mean to make light of it. Extremism is always worrying, but this is the internet and people do have a tendency to get carried away.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51428 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:29 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 22:21 m00nchile wrote:On September 27 2011 22:19 Kukaracha wrote:
I was homeless when I came to France for the first time. So yes, I've been in contact with those people. And yes, they're human beings. Not rats.
You don't know what it is to be an outcast until you're one. Period. "But you should integrate society", this is a stupid as telling a poor man to "just be rich instead". A poor man is not poor by choice. Not sending your children to school and living off stealing is. Of course, because you can magically land a job and have successful children even though you're homeless and have no legal income whatsoever. "Hey, I'm Paul, I can't write and I have the reputation to pickpocket people, do you have a job for me?" "Hi, I'm John, Paul's son, I can't write neither and also have the same reputation, can I become an engineer?" What would you answer, huh? My family never stole anything but we had plenty of people who helped us. If no one had helped us, I wouldn't be here today. Things just don't "happen" when you want them to. Welcome to the real world. Oh, and you know, that democracy thing... doesn't exist. Sorry to burst the bubble.
LOL dude, your views are so narrow minded it is UNREAL. Do you think to be successful you have to work as a bloody engineer? Jesus! You could work as a manager of McDonalds or something for like £20,000 a year whats wrong with that? Its better than begging for money on a street corner with no home!!
There is LOADS of jobs out there in this "economic crisis" right now people just DONT want to clean the streets or work at a fast food resturant or in a pub because they think its "not good enough" for them, with that attitude there becomes more people on benefits and the economy slowly halts. Stop looking at some forms of work better than others, they all pay some form of money and some money is better than NO money.
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Wow. This is not a good year for being alive on this planet it seems =\. Can't wait for a super happy news thread.
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On September 27 2011 22:25 drdreggor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 22:22 niteReloaded wrote:
Kukaracha, I think you're the one who doesn't know who gypsies are and how they function. If you knew the facts, you wouldn't be talking the way you're talking.
90% of them DO fit the stereotype.
On the other hand, most of us here would probably be perfectly happy living alongside a NORMAL gypsy. Yeah show us those numbers! You're making wild assumptions out of your own experience I guess? Why should we believe that YOU know that 90% of them fit the stereotype, have you made some sort of study we others are unaware of? Please enlighten us.
90% is my assumption, based on:
- I can name around 15 gypsies by their first name. Only 1 finished elementary school
I don't have more numbers, but you pretty much just have to open your eyes in this case. You don't need math to spot an elephant.
But yeah, it was my mistake to say it that way. It's not even important how much of them fit the stereotype, because those who are normal citizens don't remedy those who are not, so percentages don't play a role, only absolute values of 'bad' citizens do.
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On September 27 2011 22:33 Pandemona wrote:
LOL dude, your views are so narrow minded it is UNREAL. Do you think to be successful you have to work as a bloody engineer? Jesus! You could work as a manager of McDonalds or something for like £20,000 a year whats wrong with that? Its better than begging for money on a street corner with no home!!
There is LOADS of jobs out there in this "economic crisis" right now people just DONT want to clean the streets or work at a fast food resturant or in a pub because they think its "not good enough" for them, with that attitude there becomes more people on benefits and the economy slowly halts. Stop looking at some forms of work better than others, they all pay some form of money and some money is better than NO money.
Not everybody gets accepted at McDonalds. You usually don't when you look like you could kill people.
It's funny that you call me narrow-minded. As I said before, I've been homeless with my mom when I was a kid, so I witnessed how it's not easy to fit in.
But maybe you know better, and should write a book and teach all of those outcasts who just LOVE to be chased by police all day how to be a good citizen.
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On September 27 2011 22:29 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 22:21 m00nchile wrote:On September 27 2011 22:19 Kukaracha wrote:
I was homeless when I came to France for the first time. So yes, I've been in contact with those people. And yes, they're human beings. Not rats.
You don't know what it is to be an outcast until you're one. Period. "But you should integrate society", this is a stupid as telling a poor man to "just be rich instead". A poor man is not poor by choice. Not sending your children to school and living off stealing is. Of course, because you can magically land a job and have successful children even though you're homeless and have no legal income whatsoever. "Hey, I'm Paul, I can't write and I have the reputation to pickpocket people, do you have a job for me?" "Hi, I'm John, Paul's son, I can't write neither and also have the same reputation, can I become an engineer?" What would you answer, huh? My family never stole anything but we had plenty of people who helped us. If no one had helped us, I wouldn't be here today. Things just don't "happen" when you want them to. Welcome to the real world. Oh, and you know, that democracy thing... doesn't exist. Sorry to burst the bubble.
That IS MY WHOLE FUCKING POINT. Welfare, free housing, encouraging parents to enroll their children to school. WE ALREADY DO ALL THAT. Let's give your example a bit of realism:
"Hi I'm John, my parents didn't send me to school so I can't read or write. That gives me the right to treat my children the same way and steal from people with no legal reprecussions."
That's the situation. They have all the means to get their children out of that crummy life but don't.
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The majority of TL'ers surprisingly are missing the point - the protests were NOT vs. gypsies and their culture or mentality. They were vs. Kiril Rashkov's family and the corrupted authorities that had over 10 years to purge his criminal activities from the area, but didn't do anything about it and that had to happen.
TL'ers, i R disappoint.
Racial hatred this protest isn't for.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51428 Posts
On September 27 2011 22:37 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2011 22:33 Pandemona wrote:
LOL dude, your views are so narrow minded it is UNREAL. Do you think to be successful you have to work as a bloody engineer? Jesus! You could work as a manager of McDonalds or something for like £20,000 a year whats wrong with that? Its better than begging for money on a street corner with no home!!
There is LOADS of jobs out there in this "economic crisis" right now people just DONT want to clean the streets or work at a fast food resturant or in a pub because they think its "not good enough" for them, with that attitude there becomes more people on benefits and the economy slowly halts. Stop looking at some forms of work better than others, they all pay some form of money and some money is better than NO money.
Not everybody gets accepted at McDonalds. You usually don't when you look like you could kill people. It's funny that you call me narrow-minded. As I said before, I've been homeless with my mom when I was a kid, so I witnessed how it's not easy to fit in. But maybe you know better, and should write a book and teach all of those outcasts who just LOVE to be chased by police all day how to be a good citizen.
Dude. Look in the Mirror, you have been homeless with your Mum and now you are not, you are a reason that you can change things you were obviously homeless for a reason because you said you moved TO France (guessing from another country for a reason maybe). You have found a job maybe? or even studying education at the moment. You are not stealing or involved in drug running your just trying to follow the law and make a good life.
You should be in agreement with what most of this thread is saying. Why should they get away with it when you had to work twice as hard for your reward of a roof overy our head and money in your pocket. Its not fair when you work your ass off and pay all the money to the goverment and you see other people NOT doing this, and the law not being enforced on them. There is help in every country for people. But when they refuse to abide by the law there is outburts you must see that side of the argument.
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gypsys are a fucking pandemic for the civilizated society, for the most part. all they do is abusing welfare system, live off on crime and reproduce their yet inferior gene set. if this goes on with the current rate the civilizational apocalypse of europe about to emerge around 2060. its easy to pull the racist card from a place like western europe where the only way u get in contact with them is seeing them as funny people with the circus on tv...anyone who judging ppl with racism really should just come to one of the eastern europen countrys (namely bulgaria, romania, hungary, slovakia, czech) and live here for a year. for example how come there is no hard feelings against chinese, arabic, african people (or whoever comes here for that matter) in hungary? year by year we getting closer to a civil war, it just cant be a whole region being nazi racist hitler scum.
therefore gypsy is not really a race itself, its a lifestyle chosen by every individual. the "good gypsys" are the roma people (my estimation is about ~5-10% of the population), who also suffering from the others lifestyle, hating them and oftenly labels them as "stupid gypsys"...
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