On October 02 2011 19:23 Jokithedruid wrote: Wow, just wow... I wonder what the average age/average education level most of the people posting here have.
You are even worse about "gypsies" than my fellow fascist swedes, who blame EVERYTHING on the muslims. "they sell their daughters, steal, murder, rape, give birth to 10 babies, doesn't go to school" are you mentally ill? Stop blaming shit on people and take responsibility for your own life. In other words grow the f*** up!
Many Gypsies dont have regular jobs, are involved in crime etc. We find them to be somewhat repulsive because of their life style. But the reality is, that the actual damage they do is relatively limited. That is because they are mainly involved in small crimes. The common mafia organisations, like Russian, Albanian, Italian, Serbian etc mafias do much, much more damage. Its not even comparible. Yet we dont see riots and attacks against the mafia and other criminal organisations like rocker gangs etc. Why is that? Well for one they look more pleasant. But the main reason is, that people know that these criminals are actually dangerous in contrast to gypsies for example. So the problem of the gypsies is, that they are actually not that dangerous and well armed like common criminal gangs. If they were, they would no be attacked.
Lets face it, the whole gypsie hate / fear is more an emotional than a rational thing. Hack, I bet Bernie Madoff alone stole more money than all gypsies combined.
No, you are wrong. Criminal gangs don't threaten ordinary people's lives, but "small crimes" do. Small crimes like robbing your house, killing your grandparents for 5 euro, stealing the production from your vegetable garden, stealing colour metals and leaving you without electricity and so on. It's a completely rational problem.
I used to have a villa. Now I have ruins, because they stole everything. The police just says "We can't do nothing" and I and thousands like me are sick of this situation.
I just glanced thorugh the thread and I didn't read all of the posts, which would be too much, but here is two things I know of.
In Serbia or ex Yugoslavia in general (My father is from Croatia and my mother from Serbia), there was the Unversiade a year or two ago. near the venue where all this should have happened, there was a gypsy camp, where the people lived in iron shacks. The city ( I think it was Belgrade) wanted to move the people like 1km away, because they needed the space and they didn't want people coming for this sport event see the messiness that gypsies sometimes are. They gypsies agreed to get moved, because they were promised home for every family. The city basically build several NEW aparment complexes 1km away, with elecricity; which they didn't have, running water and everything for free.
When everything was done and they could've moved in, the gypsies basically realised "Hey they did this much for us, so why don't we get more?", and yes this may sound somewhat racist, but this is what the gypsies actually said to the government at that point. Only 5% moved in, because they thought this was generous enough and the rest just started protesting that they wanted more and that they had have a "better?" live in their iron shacks than in the newly build aparments. Sadly I have no idea how the story ended.
The second one actually happens in Germany right now. Since Bulgaria and Romania are in the EU citizens from those countries can move freely in the EU and work here. There is two problems arising right now in Germany. If you live in germany and you don't have a job, the state is obligated to give you a place to live and a little money to live from. No one cares that gypsies use this right aswell as every other man or women living in here, but the problem with the gypsies is that they basically destroy those apartments. In the beginning there is a family of four people in one of those aparments, but somehow they get more and more until the point where 15-20 people live in a 3 room apartment and ofcourse that is too much. Now ofcourse the landlord can throw them out if something like this happens, which he did, but ofcourse they got all mad and were saying that it wasn't their fault and it was some other gypsy family and so on. Now "one!" of those families (app. 40 people...) lives in a park, which they don't even mind, but it is in the middle of Berlin iirc and ofcourse that is bothersome to other people.
The second story is that they started camping at gas stations and roadhouses, which they steal from and yes the police can kick them out of the gas stations and roadhouses, but not off of the parking lots, because they're not private property. One bankwire had to pay for security to help them out, because the police couldn't do a thing. The gypsies got pretty pissed when they saw that and they started shitting on the floor in front of his gast station.
Those are just some examples that I know of and this is by no means a generalization of gypsies, but this is jsut how it is in Europe and espacially in Eastern Europe. Governments always try to help them, obviously also because of the past, but to say that people are racist and to compare that to the "jewish problem" and the "turk problem" that a fellow swedish poster mentioned is just plain wrong.
On October 02 2011 19:23 Jokithedruid wrote: Wow, just wow... I wonder what the average age/average education level most of the people posting here have.
You are even worse about "gypsies" than my fellow fascist swedes, who blame EVERYTHING on the muslims. "they sell their daughters, steal, murder, rape, give birth to 10 babies, doesn't go to school" are you mentally ill? Stop blaming shit on people and take responsibility for your own life. In other words grow the f*** up!
And just for your information. Berlin is the second biggest Turkish city on earth population-wise.
Italy has a another problem of unpunishable crime that is centered around organized crime and mafia. Something similar to this happens in the US with anti-terrorism procedures.
They are completely unrelated to the gypsy ethnic clash, but what happened is that the state found itself with laws and regulations unable to deal with a specific threat and passed special, controversial laws under the motto "the end justifies the means".
One of the most evident problems here is that gypsies illegally concentrate in bidonvilles causing all sorts of trouble in the surrounding area. What they do is illegal; in theory we'd have no need of new "racist" measures to have them punished. But in practice laws regarding housing can't deal with this, and trying to approach the problem this way is comical.
So what to do? the only solution is having "racist" laws, which would allow penalties completely out of proportion with the crime, simply because there's this one group that manages to bring this relatively minor offence to a level where it makes living near them dangerous.
On October 02 2011 20:44 Redox wrote: The common mafia organisations, like Russian, Albanian, Italian, Serbian etc mafias do much, much more damage. Its not even comparible. ... Lets face it, the whole gypsie hate / fear is more an emotional than a rational thing. Hack, I bet Bernie Madoff alone stole more money than all gypsies combined.
Spend an hour at a major railway station in Ukraine or Russia. You'll get pickpocketed twice by gypsies, zero by mafia, zero by Bernie Madoff.
On October 01 2011 21:32 besiger wrote: Dear god, I just cant grasp this, are some of you people seriously saying that people from 7 - 8 different countries, all of which have gypsies, are all bigoted and racist, and it could in no way have anything to do with this one particular minority ? Do you think we are living in the 1800s here and preach racial inferiority ? Is it that hard to admit there might be a problem if this many people are voicing their concerns, or is it just easier to scream RACIST.
Yes all bigoted and racist. When i travel to CZ and i travel alot to CZ the blatend racism is just overwelming. Allso in HU you got people wearing (slighty modified) nazi uniforms that get 14% of the votes in the recent election. If you dont call those guys nacist nazi pigs you are just wrong dude.
And dont tell the rest of the world 'if you dont live in a country with them you dont know what you are talking about". Its wrong, every country has a population living in lower social standards then the rest. Where I live there is a huge increase in criminal behavior due to new people coming from Eastern Europe. This has nothing to do with were they are from it has to do with the social standing.
Low social standing=more criminals.
Don't you think the problem is pretty big, when just the fact a political party openly talking about the problems was enough for 14% of the people to give their vote to them despite they ridicolously stupid and idiotic? If you know their program, you know what i'm talking about...
The sad reaily is, the two big partys are shown already what theyre capable of in the last 20 years. These 2 partys have no other competition btw. Most 40+ year old people think the condition of the state have gotten worse not by a small margin.
They can be thankful for the popularity because 1. They did'nt took their turn yet, while the big 2 reigning party already showed theyre incompetent. 2, Most people think Jobbik wouldnt solve shit, except the gypsy issue. But also think, other political partys wouldnt do anything good either plus ignoring the issue as a whole...
As far as political voting goes in Hungary, people don't vote to the party they think would be the "best", they vote for a party which they think will be the "less worse"... When you living conditions seemingly getting worse by every 5 year and see no way out from the catch22, you go with what remained as you not have too much to lose anymore...
Summary of todays news: Yesterday a family stopped a gypsy from breaking in the house of their neighbors. The gypsy escaped, because they didn't want to hit him and a group of around 30 to 40 gypsies came to the house and assaulted the family, some of them screaming "kill them". One of the family members had a broken jaw and had an emergency surgery yesterday. Another had a broken cheekbone and a broken nose. One gypsy has been arrested. Sources(in Bulgarian): 123
On October 01 2011 21:32 besiger wrote: Dear god, I just cant grasp this, are some of you people seriously saying that people from 7 - 8 different countries, all of which have gypsies, are all bigoted and racist, and it could in no way have anything to do with this one particular minority ? Do you think we are living in the 1800s here and preach racial inferiority ? Is it that hard to admit there might be a problem if this many people are voicing their concerns, or is it just easier to scream RACIST.
Yes all bigoted and racist. When i travel to CZ and i travel alot to CZ the blatend racism is just overwelming. Allso in HU you got people wearing (slighty modified) nazi uniforms that get 14% of the votes in the recent election. If you dont call those guys nacist nazi pigs you are just wrong dude.
And dont tell the rest of the world 'if you dont live in a country with them you dont know what you are talking about". Its wrong, every country has a population living in lower social standards then the rest. Where I live there is a huge increase in criminal behavior due to new people coming from Eastern Europe. This has nothing to do with were they are from it has to do with the social standing.
Low social standing=more criminals.
You are taking facts and altering them to make conclusions which are false. Yes, at the last elections a Hungarian extreme-right party got 14%. But u forget to mention, that Hungary was led by left wing party for 8 years, and that extreme-right didnt really exist/was ignorable. When the voice-records of PM Gyurcsany got leaked, in which he talked about how badly they fucked it up, and how much they lied, well yeah obviously tons of people are gonna vote for the opposed parties and in a crisis situatuion like this, obviously extremes benefit as well. In any other circumstances that party wouldnt have got nearly as much. Btw call them neo-fascist or whatever, but dont call them nazis, because they arent.
The other part, yes, in CZ and in general in Central-Eastern Europe racism is widespread. That doesnt mean everybody who considers the gypsy situation a problem is racist.
Also you speak about social standing, and how that causes criminal activity. While that is certainly true, it's wrong to bring up in this context, because gypsies had the same opportunities and rights (+some extra benefits) for a very long time. You can't really compare that to say, an illegal imigrant community or a formerly slave community. They dont like to learn in general, that's a fact, schools and universities are free/have free spots + extra spots for students with rroma background, yet they dont take up on those opportunities to brake out. Lots of them are content with how they live now.
Btw just take this thread, read the comments defending the gypsies, most of those comments are very ignorant towards the critques, and call everybody racist and bigot, like you do, and in most of the cases they dont live in a country whit gypsy population. The other part, at least a good portion of it, brings examples and arguments and experience based proofs. Racism is ignorance+generalization, wouldnt you agree? Well, definetly both parts generalize a lot here, but those who try to defend them seem more ignorant, at least to me.
EPT![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_O1jei1tFuLA/S8HrKzc95dI/AAAAAAAABqk/lMXgSvSqW2o/s1600/u__Jobbik_.jpg)
