EPTMass mutas stop working once terran has enough goliaths or valkyries.
Anything else?
Good army compositions for zerg vs mech?
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SiarX
98 Posts
Mass mutas stop working once terran has enough goliaths or valkyries. Anything else? | ||
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Severedevil
United States4834 Posts
On December 15 2024 02:01 SiarX wrote: Queens + hydras is obvious one (queens kill tanks, hydras kill everything else), but it is too micro demanding. Mass mutas stop working once terran has enough goliaths or valkyries. Anything else? I've also seen zergling/ultra with drops against mech, usually against bio-->mech transitions. Zergling/ultra relies on mobility and forcing the mech player to spread their forces to cover all their bases. Mech's a lot weaker when it's spread, and you can pick it apart piece by piece. | ||
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ninazerg
United States7291 Posts
On December 15 2024 02:01 SiarX wrote: Queens + hydras is obvious one (queens kill tanks, hydras kill everything else), but it is too micro demanding. Mass mutas stop working once terran has enough goliaths or valkyries. Anything else? Your unit composition (as Zerg) is going to largely be based on how many resources you have at your disposal, and the Terran unit composition. If their army is very tank-heavy, you probably want more air, and if their army is more goliath-heavy, you want more hydra. Later in the game, the Zerg can start thinking about things like guardians and queens. I personally wouldn't recommend ultralisks, because ultralisks and zerglings are horrible against spider mines, and once Terran gets +3 weapons for mech, siege tanks will just melt your ultralisks. If the Terran has a maxed 3/3 army, your goose is pretty much cooked, because it is so efficient at killing stuff. However, the thing that makes a maxed Terran army really scary is either valkyries or science vessels. Personally, I find science vessels to be way more scary, because irradiate is not only a guaranteed free kill, but also, makes it hard to fight with air units, since they tend to clump together, even if not fixed to an overlord. Because of this, the Terran 4th base is going to be really important, because it will give Terran the gas needed at start making science vessels. Denying the 4th base (or 4th gas, to be clear) is probably going to be really important, generally speaking. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28597 Posts
To be fair it's a bit map dependent. If zerg has an easy way of getting 4 gas while terran struggles getting their third gas, pure muta is a legit option, but if terran has a reasonably easy third gas option they can get enough goliath+vessel for mutas to eventually become kinda worthless. 24 mutas vs 1 vessel and 16 goliaths - sure, you can work with that. 60 mutas vs 4 vessels and 30 goliaths? Best case you trade 6000 gas for 1500. Ultra ling can be possible to make work IF the map/starting locations allow for drop play, and it can work against a terran transitioning from bio into mech because then you can find a window where terran is really low on tanks and has unupgraded marines against your +4 armor ultras, but it's worthless against a terran with an established mech army. In that case, queens (with hydra ling support) is the only counter. | ||
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iopq
United States879 Posts
you never see it at the pro level because they are awesome with queens, but at amateur level where the Terran is just kind of turtling up to a maxed army you can stop them from moving out or taking additional bases as well as harass with drops in their current bases | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28597 Posts
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Ty2
United States1434 Posts
Optionally, throw in another group of lings and sync it in time with your queens so the lings arrive as the same time as your queens and get auto targeted. Throw some scourge for vessels optionally You could try ultraling defiler and drops but it’s very situational and often times cost ineffective. Honestly id only go this route if you are at a heavy advantage and even then - you’re really taking a risk. Dependent on the map for sure. Some pros ive seen have used a combo of hydra, ling, defiler, and ultra and drops in combination but this I’ve found much more micro intensive and again, highly situational and more risky than hydra queen. Very demanding of your finesse. Like, breaking a siege tank line and coordinating 10 control groups of units and defilers - that’s a lot. Even then, siege tank splash against ultraling even with darn swarms - poor for zerg. You absolutely want to avoid charging siege tank lines head on if you can help it, and this is where ultraling flounders hard. Now when maps are wide open, there are multiple avenues of attack, and you can stretch terran thin, ultraling defiler and drops in multiple places is doable. But there’s nothing like queens regenerating energy that really gives zerg the upperhand and puts time on their side versus a Terran that’s gas starved since they’re using mech with few science vessels and they’re pushed to attack zerg. It puts Zerg on an even playing field versus trying to beat terran down before they reach critical mass. That said, i’m talking in broad brush strokes. Terran is more cost effective pound for pound but these interactions all come down to the decisive micro of terran anticipatinf queens, sniping them without letting them get away scot free when they do broodling waves, irradiates, zerg picking away at terran, etc. | ||
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TT1
Canada9990 Posts
jkjk getting vis of t units + shift deselecting from far is the best advice, obv you think it's too demanding micro-wise cus you're not executing the basics | ||
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mtcn77
Turkey225 Posts
On December 17 2024 16:51 Liquid`Drone wrote: Work on your queen use. Queen hydra is the obvious one because it's the best counter. Without queens terran can play patiently, and aside from queens, zerg has no counter to a patient terran going mech. To be fair it's a bit map dependent. If zerg has an easy way of getting 4 gas while terran struggles getting their third gas, pure muta is a legit option, but if terran has a reasonably easy third gas option they can get enough goliath+vessel for mutas to eventually become kinda worthless. 24 mutas vs 1 vessel and 16 goliaths - sure, you can work with that. 60 mutas vs 4 vessels and 30 goliaths? Best case you trade 6000 gas for 1500. Ultra ling can be possible to make work IF the map/starting locations allow for drop play, and it can work against a terran transitioning from bio into mech because then you can find a window where terran is really low on tanks and has unupgraded marines against your +4 armor ultras, but it's worthless against a terran with an established mech army. In that case, queens (with hydra ling support) is the only counter. I think this is the best option. There have also been some recent pro games with this strategy. You totally don't expect the mutalisks will live through. In small enough goliath numbers surprisingly, they do. | ||
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iopq
United States879 Posts
You are pretty much forced into mass hydra at that point because otherwise you need a field of spores in the middle of your base | ||
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