On January 19 2025 22:00 watchlulu wrote: I won't comment on balance here as my games are far from the perfection these two guys are playing it at, but I gotta say: But in terms of viewing experience it's pretty tiring to see the majority of Pro ZvPs going to this form of lategame.
was this better?
Eh i Like Stalker Immortal Strom Archon vs the Hydra lurker Stage but when too many lurkers Hit the field it feels Like you need tempest but tempest promote such a lame way of playing and then zerg needs to transition to a composition that also Just makes the Game Go stale.
ZvP tempest late game can be fun when there aren't massive banks and the Zerg and Toss are struggling to keep mining from one or two bases. High eco tempest late games where players just let one of a billion bases die instead of fighting army vs army are a drag though (like game 1.)
Seems like Serral's analysis of his recent ZvP rough stretch was that he was giving up way too much mid-game control by going fast Hive/Lurker? Feels a bit obvious in hindsight, but still an impressive analysis/adjustment to make in the span of a few days.
Aside from never participate in offline, MaxPax haven't even won a single online premier either. Say what you will about Cure, dude has legit won a GSL.
He's an incredibly talented player, but "best Protoss in the world" title needs to be earned, and he just hasn't done anything close to earn it yet. Again, weeklies don't count.
herO had at least two games where he had a solid chance to win but he let it slip by sloppy decision. You just don't have any room of error when you are playing a near perfect opponent like Serral.
Felt a little bad for herO, but it's nice to see him put MaxPax in his place on a tournament like this. Losing to ZvP GOAT 3:5 in a bo9 is not bad at all either.
On January 20 2025 01:11 darklycid wrote: Well felt Like herO playing below what He is able to but gz serral.
I guess it’s hard to look like you’re on your A-game because Serral just stretches you to you absolute limits, or indeed beyond. Kinda how Serral looks invincible in ZvT and at times helpless and uncharacteristically sloppy again Clem, but it’s Clem forcing those mistakes with his relentless pace. Serral’s ZvP superpower is more akin to making all the right calls and plays rather than pure speed, although he’s got plenty of that too of course!
You gotta take risks if there’s any sign of a chink in his army, risks you probably don’t take against other Zergs because the opportunities are that much more infrequent.
Felt MaxPax and herO played credibly, but Serral showed why he is the ZvP GOAT in the minds of many, and for me that’s maybe the strongest individual matchup we’ve seen in SC2
Fun tournament, many thanks to the organisers, the casters and the players!
Really wanna thank double elim for saving us from X weeks (months?) of 'Zerg is dead' discourse. Now we can get back to the familiar and comfy 'Protoss sucks' discourse
Serral vs. MaxPax was the best ZvP play I can ever remember seeing. Masterful stuff from navigating the extreme late-game in G1 to hitting a beautiful timing in G2, grabbing the advantage with beautiful map-specific swarm host play and holding it flawlessly in G4, then one more nice timing in G5 to end it. (Even the 3-prong all-in that failed looked pretty nice, insane for MaxPax to defend all three fronts simultaneously.)
Despite the map scores, I felt like the MaxPax series was "closer" than the herO one -- Serral just uncharacteristically got caught 3 times with all-ins, in anything like a standard game Serral was able to flex a pretty clear mechanical advantage -- G2 showed herO doesn't have the same grasp of the Skytoss late game MaxPax has.
That was a pretty interesting SC2 moment overall -- Serral not only had to go against one of the few players in the world that can match or outdo him from a pure multitasking/mechanics perspective (Clem, MaxPax, and Reynor would be that list from my perspective), but had to face a meta situation where going into the lategame even would seemingly put him at a disadvantage -- for the last however many years, Serral getting into the lategame unbothered in either PvZ or TvZ was essentially a win condition. (Arguable) GOAT doing GOAT stuff, amazing to watch.
Bummed this could be the last big-money tournament for a while, but the upside was MaxPax went up against Serral in a high-pressure situation, which it looks like we'll obviously never get to see in a LAN tournament.
On January 19 2025 23:12 Waxangel wrote: Seems like Serral's analysis of his recent ZvP rough stretch was that he was giving up way too much mid-game control by going fast Hive/Lurker? Feels a bit obvious in hindsight, but still an impressive analysis/adjustment to make in the span of a few days.
I felt like his answer to the skytoss should maybe have been to put the mid-game eco advantage he usually got to throw down an extra spire and hit with a corruptor swarm with the upgrade advantage, but I'm not gonna argue with how Serral went about his business.
On January 20 2025 01:32 Waxangel wrote: Really wanna thank double elim for saving us from X weeks (months?) of 'Zerg is dead' discourse. Now we can get back to the familiar and comfy 'Protoss sucks' discourse
WombaT’s LawTM strikes again.
I’d be interested in re-watching the series Serral lost and the ones he won recently, see what actual adjustments he made. It seemed at the time he’d completely flipped the script, even with mere subtle alterations so he looked really strong in the exact phases of games he previously looked weakened in.
On January 20 2025 01:32 Waxangel wrote: Really wanna thank double elim for saving us from X weeks (months?) of 'Zerg is dead' discourse. Now we can get back to the familiar and comfy 'Protoss sucks' discourse
WombaT’s LawTM strikes again.
I’d be interested in re-watching the series Serral lost and the ones he won recently, see what actual adjustments he made. It seemed at the time he’d completely flipped the script, even with mere subtle alterations so he looked really strong in the exact phases of games he previously looked weakened in.
Guy’s pretty good
My first look answer is he decided rushing to Lurkers wasn't worth it, and he replaced the 'standard' fast Hydra-Lurker approach with a mix bag of lair tech strats up to like 10-12 mins
I love how Serral's way of approaching a difficult matchup is always searching for and implementing proper adjustments and, as he sometimes says, "just playing a little bit better".
Was there a change for the final two days or something? I've been watching all other match days as recorded broadcasts on Cranky Duckling's channel on YouTube or Twitch, but for the final two days neither of those were available, nor any other recorded broadcasts by other commentators on YouTube or Twitch. Is there a way to watch the finals before they are covered by PiG, Winter, and so on?
EPT
