EPT$15,000 Master's Coliseum #8 - (Dec 14-Jan 19) - Page 7
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tigera6
3516 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33712 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27473 Posts
On January 19 2025 00:58 Waxangel wrote: MaxPax not beating the small tournament merchant allegations, losing 1-4 to a guy he beats like 66% of the time in cups. Aye, if you gave me a pick of any Toss to do the best in 100 ladder games, or a low stakes weekly tournament with my life on the line I’m going Maximus Paximus. If it’s the same stakes riding on a high stakes Premier/Major playoff I’m picking herO every time. That said he can still salvage this tournament and shed some of that reputation if he beats Serral again and reverses herO’s beatdown. That would definitely fill some of the gaps in his resume in coming through clutch in a big tournament against the best in the business. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12612 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27473 Posts
On January 19 2025 01:44 Nebuchad wrote: Top 3 of a tourney with all the best players => Lol he's a ladder hero Cure spent forever being a clearly talented player who didn’t really bring it to the big offline stage. MaxPax is just being judged by the same standards those who came before him were. It’s not MaxPax’s fault that some people have dropped the historic metrics that separate the great from the good for him specifically. But many have and there’s a natural pushback there. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33712 Posts
On January 19 2025 01:56 WombaT wrote: Cure spent forever being a clearly talented player who didn’t really bring it to the big offline stage. MaxPax is just being judged by the same standards those who came before him were. It’s not MaxPax’s fault that some people have dropped the historic metrics that separate the great from the good for him specifically. But many have and there’s a natural pushback there. Trap was right there and you went with Cure  | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12612 Posts
Also the weeklies are high level by themselves. The notion that people who have played like 100 of them, there every week, lose because they don't really care is just extreme cope. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27473 Posts
On January 19 2025 03:11 Nebuchad wrote: You're just getting married to the narrative. I was there, nobody was calling soO a ladder hero, or Cure or Trap. Not even Heromarine was called a ladder hero and he fits the description much more. Someone who doesn't perform at high level doesn't make Ro3 against every top player while beating the remaining seed 1 on their path, it's just a biased claim. Also the weeklies are high level by themselves. The notion that people who have played like 100 of them, there every week, lose because they don't really care is just extreme cope. From a cursory search of ‘Cure online’ on here, one finds articles such as this As it turned out, three months of online play weren't as meaningful as four years of Code S in informing us about Cure's status: that of a player doomed to be hard-stuck in the group stages. It's clear that even without an audience, there's something about offline-play that prevents Cure from playing at his usual level. Either that, or it's that Cure's level stays the same offline, while the truly elite players step up their game when the stakes are raised. It’s been the case forever that ladder, or performance in weekly cups has been used as a barometer to judge a player’s talent or outright skill level, but ultimately to be considered a great player you have to deliver in the bigger tournaments. As Wax points out Trap was also in this boat for a good long while, and he’s one of my all-time favourite players. MaxPax outright not playing offline is a new variable, as is the lack of many high stakes tournaments currently, but nobody in SC2 history has ever been considered truly elite without those big results. Weeklies have always been perceived as not especially important when assessing a player’s status, though they have tons of other value. He’s just being judged by the standards everyone else has always been judged by, it’s nothing new. He’s had a good performance here too, even if he tanks it tomorrow. If he can take out Serral again and avenge his defeat to herO, well there’s that kind of clutch performance when the stakes are higher that folks think he largely lacks in his resumé | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12612 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27473 Posts
On January 19 2025 04:31 Nebuchad wrote: Your quote says "hard stuck in the group stages", sounds a bit different from top 3 world don't you think? I just pulled the first vaguely applicable hit from my search, there’s plenty else out there. From a much more cutthroat competitive era as well incidentally. The whole point was to show that Cure was considered an online monster who didn’t have high stakes deep performances, and this was held against him, and fans were just waiting for his obvious talent showcased in online competitions to manifest in those high stakes offline events. For years this was the case, Trap was another. They’re most notable but aren’t alone in this. Hell Clem was in the ‘clearly talented, and he’s won some EU regionals but he’s not a real great until he shows it in an international tournament and more consistently’. MaxPax hasn’t even done the former MaxPax is just being judged by the standards of everybody else in the scene and how they’ve always been judged | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12612 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27473 Posts
On January 19 2025 05:36 Nebuchad wrote: It makes sense to say that someone who performs online and then loses in group stage is a ladder hero or like stuck in practice or whatever. It doesn't make sense to say to someone who runs deep in every tournament they play. I doubt you would find articles about "ladder hero Cure" making gsl semifinals, but I'd disagree with those too if they exist. Worth pointing out that Cure has never been on a level to win a bunch of things, he won like once or twice a bunch of years ago right? Otherwise he's doing more or less what Maxpax is doing, with worse results. Cure has a GSL, multiple Premier silvers including GSL and Gamers 8, a bunch of Premier Ro4s including multiple GSL runs and a Katowice Ro4. Versus a MaxPax who’s got 2 WCS EU silvers. It’s not calling him a ladder hero, indeed I didn’t call him that nor did Wax. But his reputation is built upon his performance in domains that no other player in SC2’s history has ever been considered elite for conquering. By all means disagree with the metric, but it’s always been the metric. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
We'll basically see in this tournament if he turns out like Lucifron or if he turns out like Cure. | ||
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JJH777
United States4420 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27473 Posts
On January 19 2025 09:40 JJH777 wrote: This tournament is still pretty minor. Just feels big because we are currently in by far the biggest gap between premier events ever. It has a similar prizepool to the Pigsty Festival he won about a year and a half ago. He needs to do well in something that pays 30k+. I guess I’d consider it a bit differently given au present it’s one of the biggest around so it attracts more of the top dogs. Sure it’s not a Katowice but I think it’s somewhat elevated over where it normally would be. A major sandwiched amongst bigger and more lucrative Premiers isn’t going to get the same focus than a major that’s one of the only gigs in town. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12612 Posts
On January 19 2025 09:40 JJH777 wrote: This tournament is still pretty minor. Just feels big because we are currently in by far the biggest gap between premier events ever. It has a similar prizepool to the Pigsty Festival he won about a year and a half ago. He needs to do well in something that pays 30k+. Don't worry if he wins protoss is strong right now so you can still call him a patchtoss | ||
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Husyelt
United States839 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33712 Posts
On January 19 2025 14:20 Husyelt wrote: which streamer covered todays games? i looked at wardi and steadfast but they dont have vids uploaded yet Hmmm I think all the English language streamers for the past day have paywall VODs on Twitch? Might be mistaken. If you're in a hurry and don't mind Chinese VODs, they're avail: | ||
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