EPT
Sad news for TSL, good for EG.
I'm torn.
TSL's Coach Lee speaks out on PuMa - Page 13
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sTsCompleted
United States380 Posts
Sad news for TSL, good for EG. I'm torn. | ||
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mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
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ETisME
12248 Posts
Not saying that TSL should fall/collapse through, I honestly think that a person would always choose whatever he values more. Some values their team more, some values their own future/enjoyment more. | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
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kellymilkies
Singapore1393 Posts
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babylon
8765 Posts
 Having said that, this entire shitstorm seems to have started because of simple miscommunication from all parties involved, EG, TSL, and Puma. I don't mean to point fingers here, because I believe it's clear that everyone made some missteps - Puma in asking to be the one to break it to TSL when he knows that EG should be the one to contact them, EG in agreeing to that course of action, Puma in dancing around the bush before finally breaking it to Coach Lee but then subsequently not making it clear that he was not yet signed, Coach Lee in making such an early, emotional comment based on false information, and finally EG in not making an official remark for hours when it's clear that they've been aware of this controversy from almost the very instant that it broke out and then sending out AG on WoC to try to do some damage control. It's a complete PR nightmare from whichever angle you look at it. TSL looks like it's hemorrhaging into nonexistence, EG looks like sleazy bastards, and Puma's apparently being criticized by the Korean netizens for his decision to pack up and leave. Jesus Christ. When I first read the thread yesterday, I was furious at EG's "theft," but having gotten both sides to the story (I think), it all just looks very unfortunate. Once again, best of luck to TSL, as well as EG and Puma. I'm interested to see how this will fall out in Korea and the international scene. | ||
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[Silverflame]
Germany640 Posts
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BackSideAttack
1103 Posts
Intel, Steel Series, Monster Energy, Kingston HyperX, In Win development Inc, 6 pool gaming, BigFoot Networks, Split Reason Clothing, Inferno Online, G7 Teams, NFO Servers, Ventrilo.net User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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IslandLife
21 Posts
On July 22 2011 15:24 Amui wrote: By no means is it offensive, it is in fact true. If you put everything on a whiteboard then it's completely fair and legal. I agree on this point. By no means did AG do anything illegal. However the means he took to aquire a player, while in the western world, is perfectly fine and acceptable, but in Korea is extremely disrespectful. The coach treats his players as his own children, he feeds them, gives them a place to stay, and tries to do his utmost to assist them. When Clide and Sangho both feel indebted enough to give back their stipends/salary to help the team, you know how strong the bond is. I can guarantee you AG does not share the same bond with his players, he may meet them several times a month, review salaries and performance, maybe drop by once in a while to watch practice, but the western system doesn't allow for such loyalties to form. Uh, "the western system doesn't allow for such loyalties to form" isn't offensive? Here's an example that might make this easier for you to understand. Many Koreans live with their parents until they get married. I have Korean friends who are in their 30s living with their parents. In Korea this is normal. In America, if you still live with your parents when you are in your 30s it is frowned upon. It implies you aren't independent. This is a cultural difference. Your post is not about cultural differences. I can give you concrete examples of Korean bosses screwing over their employees in every way imaginable. I can give you concrete examples of American bosses screwing over their employees in every way imaginable. I think you are confusing team atmosphere with cultural differences. Maybe Coach Lee is a super-fantastic great loving father figure who would go to the ends of the earth to raise and nurture his players, and will buy them all puppies when they win a tournament. That's awesome, and I commend that. Maybe AG is a money-grubbing jerk who stares at himself in the mirror all day and can't wait to go kick a few innocent puppies after work. That's awful, and I don't commend that. Just please don't play the culture card. It makes no sense in this case. | ||
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Imperfect1987
United States558 Posts
However, after watching Weapon of Choice I really lost a lot of respect for EG. AG danced around the questions with eloquent wording and went on tangents. When it came to the root of the problem (picking up a player in a shady/backhanded way that is disrespectful) he thought EG did no wrong. EG felt no remorse for their actions, thought they did no wrong, even attacked Milkis for translating an article, made a lot of absurd arguments, and in the end AG said that EG will be posting official statements (rather late) and apologies but with no sincerity. Essentially AG said that EG will be apologizing to the community to appease it but they are coming in with crocodile tears because they didn't find their conduct to be wrong. Not to mention AG did a lot of cheeky backhanded insults towards Milkis whenever he gave legitimate points on the subject. He said things similar to: "This isn't a loaded question but..." "I am not accusing you of anything but you should have come to EG before...." "There needs to be more journalistic credibility on Team Liquid ... I feel that you are doing more than just translating." The entire time EG made it seem like they were victimized by a poor handling of the situation. They found it absurd that Koreans and foreigners are offended by them never talking to the TSL coach when trying to acquire Puma. I could go into more detail but you get the general reason why I lost respect for EG. All the other Korean/foreigner acquisitions and deals have gone so well and with great enthusiasm from the community. EG did some unethical means of acquiring Puma especially during a delicate and fragile time for TSL and are being punished for it. Hopefully they change their ways and be more respectful to the Korean community. Try to understand Korean culture and admit to making a mistake. Go TSL! | ||
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Korpseflower
United States12 Posts
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thanhbao86
Canada199 Posts
This stuff happens a lot in soccer (especially Arsenal). A team approaches the player, even with the contract, the player stop practicing, blah blah blah. Eventually you have to transfer him. But again, no publicity is bad publicity. Good for EG i guess. | ||
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dartoo
India2889 Posts
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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IslandLife
21 Posts
On July 22 2011 15:58 thanhbao86 wrote: Man, if I have a pro team, I will prevent this AG guy from getting near my players. He will only brings bad news to the manager of the team. (CS 1.6 now this Puma incident), It explains his styles though. Or as he has said. It is not ethically wrong, it is how we do at EG. Good for you, and your team EG. Hope that model works for you or one day it will bite you in your ass. This stuff happens a lot in soccer (especially Arsenal). A team approaches the player, even with the contract, the player stop practicing, blah blah blah. Eventually you have to transfer him. But again, no publicity is bad publicity. Good for EG i guess. So if Arsenal found a phenom 19 year old striker who was getting room and board from a team in the Woolwich & Eltham Sunday Football Alliance, and had NO contract they would talk to the coach and make sure it is okay for them to talk with the player?? Would that matter one whit?? Is anyone open to the idea that not having Puma on a contract was marginally exploitative?? | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On July 22 2011 15:54 Imperfect1987 wrote: However, after watching Weapon of Choice I really lost a lot of respect for EG. AG danced around the questions with eloquent wording and went on tangents. When it came to the root of the problem (picking up a player in a shady/backhanded way that is disrespectful) he thought EG did no wrong. EG felt no remorse for their actions, thought they did no wrong, even attacked Milkis for translating an article, made a lot of absurd arguments, and in the end AG said that EG will be posting official statements (rather late) and apologies but with no sincerity. Essentially AG said that EG will be apologizing to the community to appease it but they are coming in with crocodile tears because they didn't find their conduct to be wrong. This BS is getting ridiculous... Here are the straight forward facts: 1) Puma was not under contract, and had no salary from TSL. 2) EG handed out several cards in public at NASL, to multiple Koreans. 3) Puma is the only one that had any actual contract talks (unless the others are being all hush-hush), meaning he is the only one that went further. 4) Puma and EG agreed that Puma would talk to his Coach, in person. 5) Puma talked to his coach, and left TSL without a written contract signed. All of these have come out in the last few hours, and yet you're still repeating the same old gossip from last night. So which of these is supposed to be shady and backhanded? | ||
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Omigawa
United States1556 Posts
On July 22 2011 12:42 mols0n wrote: I don't care for EG's statement. They're a bunch of cheaters over there anyways. They poached Complexity from Jason Lake, and now they've done the same, low class organization. I was becoming a Puma fan, but I won't cheer for them while he is on that team You're not going to cheer for a player because he took the more financially rewarding route in his career? Who are you to tell him to turn down more money, in a career where your earning potential is already limited. If this annoys you, never EVER watch real sports. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
Boom! "...a traitor is a traitor. Alex, you are a traitor. There's no eloquence that can cover factual truth. The knife in our back will not be forgotten, nor ignored. Vultures thrive on the misfortune of others. They never succeed and never redefine evolution." - Jason Lake versus alex garfield | ||
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Desirous
Canada95 Posts
How is it EGs responsibility to approach a team that DOESN'T have a contract with a player? As far as I'm concerned, Coach Lee is a jackass. And people like him are what's holding eSports up. You didn't feel it was necessary to contract him? Yeah, that's real great. Take advantage of a player considered to be one of the best by his peers in not only SC2 but SC1 as well, and have him represent you for.... food and a spot in the corner to sleep? Fuck you. Although there is one thing I dislike about the situation on Puma's end. He should have played them off each other to see if he could get a bidding war going. And for the people thinking international teams "poaching" Koreans will kill the sc2 scene in Korea, who cares? Who's fucking goal is it to make SC2 a one nation game like SC1 was? I want the game to be international. I want there to be a tournament held in Toronto so I can go see it too. I want my friends to come with me thinking I'm a nerd and walk out fans. I don't want to be forced to stay up till 5am to watch the best vs the best. So long as you leave Koreans be, they'll stay in Korea until they see a chance to go abroad for a quick cash-in. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
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