|
On July 22 2011 14:38 IslandLife wrote:Show nested quote + Asian and Asian-American culture is very different than Western culture about 'honor and respect' in things like this. I can give you plenty of real-life examples of Koreans renegging on contracts, going back on their word, siphoning money out of workers' pensions, tax evasion, etc. Comments like the above are ignorant. Public disgrace is taken rather seriously, but that doesn't matter if you don't get caught. Puma had no contract so he was free to make his own decision. Did they even think to offer him one the minute he got off a plane after winning NASL??
Yes, every human being and every culture is the same.
|
I gotta say all this has kind of turned me into a TSL fan. Clide and SangHo fighting.
|
I have so much more respect for Clide and Sangho now. Puma did what he thought was best for himself but I still can't help but feel betrayed by him a little.
Edit: brain farted changed names
|
On July 22 2011 14:26 BluePanther wrote:
has it ever occured to people that despite the better players being in korea, there might actually be more of a "scene" over here?
the only tournament run by korea is GSL, and it's not a hit as far as i understand. i'm curious as to what the numbers are, but it's possible that the West has a larger scene...
Just to put this in perspective, the prize pool for GSL is larger than all foreign tournaments combined. Of course, I'm talking about in the span of a month that GSL lasts.
|
On July 22 2011 14:34 Looky wrote:
there was a reason fruitdealer and tester left. why is everyone blaming eg on this one? maybe puma didnt want to be part of the team anymore ethier and eg saw an opportunity and ask him to join.
no contract seriously? thats probably the dumbest thing i heard from a professional team.
Yup, I can't feel sorry for the coach as they should understand that the Western scene for SC2 is much stronger at this point, especially with the huge amount of competition just to get into code A let alone S...if most of the really good code B players see that over and over the qualifiers get harder why wouldn't you jump at the chance to compete all over the world and actually make some money. People keep talking about how it is a different culture, but SC2 is a huge phenomenon around the rest of the world at this moment and who knows how long that will last, it is just better to take advantage of while you still can. Who knows if some of the BW players come over to SC2 and make the scene in Korea even more difficult, it is all business at the end of the day.
|
I'm actually rather shocked that there are no tournaments other than GSL in Korea. Is there any explanation as to why this is? Is it lack of local interest or something else?
|
On July 22 2011 12:44 Klamity wrote:
I am a big Clide and Killer fan after this entire ordeal. I wish the entire TSL team well.
And EG can rot and stop posting results for all I care... oh wait, CHECK.
Oh snap!
Can't wait for the next LO3, SirScoots has been hypocritical as fuck about this topic.
|
|
|
On July 22 2011 14:44 nvs. wrote:
I'm actually rather shocked that there are no tournaments other than GSL in Korea. Is there any explanation as to why this is? Is it lack of local interest or something else?
You just don't watch them? There's the iCCup Korean Weekly as well as the FXOpen KOTH, and I think CSN does some stuff as well.
|
Hopefully EG treats Puma well, it will be nice to see him in more foreign tournaments.
|
Clide displaying the unrivaled morals that he bestows to his marines.
I've only grown to like TSL more over this whole ordeal.
And won't PuMa be in danger of losing some of his luster over this since his new teammates won't exactly be (korean) pros, and I don't think EG exactly has a prohouse, etc etc?
While EG isn't full of bad players (they have idra...[jk jk]) I think even the remaining roster that TSL has will have considerably better practice material than EG will.
Guess we'll see
|
On July 22 2011 13:38 -Frog- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2011 13:33 whaty0uwant wrote:
Feel bad for coach lee. Puma... what a dick move. At least give a months notice or something. Puma didn't even sign a contract yet.
Wow so that makes it ok? It's called human decency.
Wow... /facepalm.
|
Now that we actually have facts out in the open, I can't for the life of me see how people can still dump on EG and Puma so much.
EG handed out business cards and expressed interest in several players at NASL. That in itself is perfectly reasonable.
Puma was not getting much financial support in TSL, and saw an opportunity that was worth looking into. That is also perfectly reasonable.
The only thing people seem to be in a tiff over is the fact that Puma made the choice between "family" and a solid financial contract, which is apparently "extremely taboo" in Korea, or something. Everyone's making some huge deal over this supposed cultural difference, when it is perfectly clear that Puma made this decision for himself. Obviously the cultural factors don't mean what so many are assuming they do.
|
On July 22 2011 14:30 dtz wrote:
Artosis is right guys. Clide is the best player in the world. Manner wise and skill wise ( he has just been unlucky so far).
Actually it is funny how Clide has so many international fans just because of Artosis hype. Of course then he proceeded to justify it by intentionally not putting Huk and Jinro in the same group even if it means that he has to be in the same group as Nestea. Nestea over Huk guys. And Huk at that time was BAD for code S level. Not even close to his skill level now.
And then he proceeded to stay loyal and donated his salary back to his struggling team??? WHAT A BALLER.
Now that we know he is loyal. Please please MLG or DH or IEM please invite Clide ( and SangHo) to foreign tournaments. No risk of being poached so TSL should not worry. And hopefully he will know that the international scene appreciates a man with such characters.
Yup - not to mention Clide somehow just provides the most entertaining games regardless of the actual level of skill being played lol (such as vs Leenock/Trickster).
I'm now on the Sangho (Killer) fan club also!
|
Very interesting... I feel bad for Coach Lee. 
I hope the best for the rest of TSL. So insightful to the passion of their remaining players unlike slackers FD and Tester haha. Yeah I know he has no beef with them. Honestly the big sponsor interest came BECAUSE of those two and when they didn't live up to expectations after the beta, sponsor interest, as I would have guessed it, waned. Weren't they the first big sponsored team? There was so much hype... yeah those two put up great results in the beta, but knowing that they left oGs because they didn't want to practice as much... why would a progaming team want to form around them? It's like a recipe for disaster.
Anyway, too much rambling. Hope for the best for TSL.
|
On July 22 2011 14:49 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Now that we actually have facts out in the open, I can't for the life of me see how people can still dump on EG and Puma so much.
EG handed out business cards and expressed interest in several players at NASL. That in itself is perfectly reasonable.
Puma was not getting much financial support in TSL, and saw an opportunity that was worth looking into. That is also perfectly reasonable.
The only thing people seem to be in a tiff over is the fact that Puma made the choice between "family" and a solid financial contract, which is apparently "extremely taboo" in Korea, or something. Everyone's making some huge deal over this supposed cultural difference, when it is perfectly clear that Puma made this decision for himself. Obviously the cultural factors don't mean what so many are assuming they do.
yeah i feel like there's really no reason to hate on EG or PuMa for what happened, but EG could've definitely handled this a lot better without making coach lee feel like he was blindsided by PuMa leaving.
|
On July 22 2011 14:49 whaty0uwant wrote:
Wow so that makes it ok? It's called human decency.
Wow... /facepalm.
How do you even know what Puma and Coach Lee's discussion went like? Maybe that was supposed to be his notice.
|
The argument "there's a reason FD and Tester left" that is used to try to cast doubt on Lee's coaching needs to stop. It's already been said that they left because they didn't want to deal with a stricter regimen that TSL was enforcing. Coach Lee understood their wishes and let them go with his blessings - he even helped them decide on their new team. There were no hard feelings there as there are with the PuMa situation.
|
EG just took advantage of a current weakness in the e-sports scene. Without an overarching body to manage the scene as in every pro sport, there is no way to stop a team approaching players of other teams with offers, etc. If you want to get a pro athlete to join your team, you ask around coaches, management, agents, etc to determine availability instead of going directly up to the player. Even if Puma had a contract with TSL, if EG came up to him and got him interested in a better one while he was away from the team and on his own, a) there's no way for his own team to respond, b) they've already destroyed the value of Puma to his team as he goes back like he did, withdrawn and changed, no longer truly part of the team and c) what would the penalty of him breaking the contract be? Could TSL's contract even bear weight on a foreign organization or would it have to just penalize the player? And if the player is penalized, is it monetary (in which case he just makes more money in the new contract and the penalty money is easily paid off)? Is it banning from tournaments (Can they only ban from Korean tournaments, and in which case it doesn't really affect him much since he sees the foreign scene as his source of money as he is a good, but not top korean competitor)? And so on.
Now, I'm not proposing KeSPA all over again. I think they have taken too many rights away from the players. I do think players should have the ability to more freely move between teams as better offers are found, but I also believe there has to be a way to ensure teams are compensated for the money, facilities, coaching, etc they supply for their players if it's via trades or money, whatever it may be. There also needs to be a way to ensure that teams go through a more appropriate means of communication when engaging in these things. Again, I think players being able to get themselves where they want to be is of the utmost important in sports, but you do have to balance that with ensuring teams can be stable and secure in developing their own players.
Edit: Rather than getting so upset about what has happened, I think we should spend more time wishing the best of luck to TSL, Puma and the others involved and use this as a catalyst to better the scene globally. As it's been said a lot in here, SC2 is global where BW was basically Korea only, and both communities should use this to change and improve the way they interact with each other.
|
On July 22 2011 14:34 Looky wrote:
there was a reason fruitdealer and tester left. why is everyone blaming eg on this one? maybe puma didnt want to be part of the team anymore ethier and eg saw an opportunity and ask him to join.
no contract seriously? thats probably the dumbest thing i heard from a professional team.
Because EG did not contact Coach Lee first. They didn't follow some etiquette. In other words, EG BMed Coach Lee.
"That he shouldn’t leave like this and that this was not an agreement made through the right channels, nor an official trade between two teams."
Please do try to read the OP of BOTH threads carefully. We already have too many people not fully understanding why, of all Korean-foreigner partnerships/acquisitions, this one happens to be a big deal (bigger in Korea).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
