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TSL's Coach Lee speaks out on PuMa - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
764 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 13 14 39 Next All
hjkim1304
Profile Joined December 2010
Korea (South)105 Posts
July 22 2011 05:58 GMT
#221
yea say what you will, but I think this is just morally wrong by EG... I mean... sure you didn't break any rules or regulations, but you gotta learn to respect the team and the coach. I'm just disappointed, that's all. I don't think i'll look at the team EG the same ever again.
Fighter
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)1531 Posts
July 22 2011 05:59 GMT
#222
It seems so strange to me that now there are interviews like this, which seem to suggest a failure within Korea with respect to StarCraft. I love the fact that SC2 is doing so well in the rest of the world, but it'll be very interesting to see where SC2 goes from here. Part of what makes the Korean scene so competetive is that the relatively small geographical space allows for accessible pro houses. Sure, you can set up pro houses elsewhere, but they're less appealing when you have to move further away from friends and family to be a part of them.

Will Korea just be a breeding ground for good players before they get siphoned off to the west? That would be a hell of an interesting scenario if it became common place...
For Aiur???
Dantat
Profile Joined April 2011
170 Posts
July 22 2011 06:02 GMT
#223
Sangho and Clide are true nerd ballers.

I hope they lead their team to a GSTL championship victory.
Sworn
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada920 Posts
July 22 2011 06:03 GMT
#224
Ya I agree for the most part that what EG did was absolutely HORRIBLE! Imagine if when Idra was staying in korea if one of the teams just came out of nowhere asked him to play for them and didn't even talk to EG. EG would have been furious losing their star player and it's the same for TSL. I really wish EG would issue an apology at least.
"Duty is heavy as a mountain, death is light as a feather." CJ Entus Fighting! <3 Effort
las91
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States5080 Posts
July 22 2011 06:04 GMT
#225
I have gained a lot of respect for both the coach of TSL, as well as Sangho and Clide over their commitment to the team they began to play SC2 with. I am quite interested to hear an official statement from EG, especially if it manages to convey the incredible respectful and polite tone that Coach Lee took and found (I'm sure) incredibly difficult to maintain.
In Inca we trust
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 22 2011 06:06 GMT
#226
On July 22 2011 14:57 Ownos wrote:
Because EG did not contact Coach Lee first.

"That he shouldn’t leave like this and that this was not an agreement made through the right channels, nor an official trade between two teams."

Please do try to read the OP of BOTH threads carefully. We already have too many people not fully understanding why, of all Korean-foreigner partnerships/acquisitions, this one happens to be a big deal (bigger in Korea).

Ditto to you.

EG gave Puma a business card at NASL, when Puma was in the Ro4. I find it highly unlikely that they went into some big aggressive push when a player was still set to play the Semi-finals (and possibly finals) of a big tournament.

By all accounts, it was Puma that took the signing discussions further. While that doesn't change the fact that proper channels were ignored, you can't expect a team to shut the door in a player's face when he was the one that actually approached them seriously.

And while no one knows how the discussion between Lee and Puma actually went, I can at least imagine that Garfield thought Lee would be contacting him so they could have a mutual announcement.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Midgetman101
Profile Joined February 2011
United States825 Posts
July 22 2011 06:08 GMT
#227
Very sad story
~Terran For Life~
IslandLife
Profile Joined March 2011
21 Posts
July 22 2011 06:09 GMT
#228
On July 22 2011 14:41 Daniel C wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 14:38 IslandLife wrote:
Asian and Asian-American culture is very different than Western culture about 'honor and respect' in things like this.


I can give you plenty of real-life examples of Koreans renegging on contracts, going back on their word, siphoning money out of workers' pensions, tax evasion, etc. Comments like the above are ignorant. Public disgrace is taken rather seriously, but that doesn't matter if you don't get caught.

Puma had no contract so he was free to make his own decision. Did they even think to offer him one the minute he got off a plane after winning NASL??


Yes, every human being and every culture is the same.


Don't be silly. If you don't have a contract, you don't have any claim. It's a bit offensive to have someone claim "honor" is more important in Asian culture than Western culture. My point is I think that's an invalid argument in this case. I think it's a great move by Puma and I look forward to seeing him play more in America.
Yah mon!
kdmx
Profile Joined April 2010
United States23 Posts
July 22 2011 06:10 GMT
#229
On July 22 2011 15:03 Sworn wrote:
Ya I agree for the most part that what EG did was absolutely HORRIBLE! Imagine if when Idra was staying in korea if one of the teams just came out of nowhere asked him to play for them and didn't even talk to EG. EG would have been furious losing their star player and it's the same for TSL. I really wish EG would issue an apology at least.


Yeah, it's absolutely horrible that EG pays their players. They are killing E-Sports! Stop with the overly dramatic BS already.
h0peless
Profile Joined February 2011
United States5 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 06:15:06
July 22 2011 06:13 GMT
#230
Shouldn't we care most about Puma? I mean, suppose EG didn't talk to him first but contacted TSL directly. Then what? Well at best it would have given TSL more time to guilt trip Puma into staying. At worst, they might have tried to deceive him (not saying they would have, just.. at worst you know..)

But in the end Puma would have probably still made this decision and TSL would be in the exact same shape they're in now.

edit: also, suppose Puma's skill starts dropping because TSLs practice regiment was just so much better. Everyone will see that, and then anytime a korean will get an offer from the west they'll say "no thanks you guys don't practice well enough" - anything can happen.
Pick a job, and become the person who does it.
TheButtonmen
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada1403 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 11:32:01
July 22 2011 06:15 GMT
#231
On July 22 2011 15:03 Sworn wrote:
Ya I agree for the most part that what EG did was absolutely HORRIBLE! Imagine if when Idra was staying in korea if one of the teams just came out of nowhere asked him to play for them and didn't even talk to EG. EG would have been furious losing their star player and it's the same for TSL. I really wish EG would issue an apology at least.


1. EG wants a top level Korean player.
2. Top level Koreans come over to NASL finals.
3. EG hands out cards seeing if anyone is interested.
4. Puma is interested and talks to EG staff, when they find out he is open to the idea of working for them, has no contract and no salary they need to compete with they lay out what they are prepared to offer, Puma is interested but he wants to be the one to talk to his coach rather then EG, EG agrees.
5. Puma talks to his coach, coach isn't impressed and thinks that Puma and EG have gone and signed behind his back. (Please note that EG and Puma haven't signed or agreed to anything yet.)
6. Coach feels disrespected and starts this whole thing with his posts.
7. The standard drama fueled shitfest occurs.
8. EG finds out about all of this.
9. Coach clarifies what he meant / what happened as mis-communications start to get cleared up (hell he even throws Puma a goodbye party)
10. EG speaks out on Lo3, saying they didn't do anything wrong and they followed their potential new players wishs. (Again note that EG and Puma still haven't signed anything still.)
11. Dramallamas continue to frolic.
12. EG opens mouth and inserts foot re: what team liquid is for (while I agree partially with them this sure as hell wasn't the time).
13. Even more shit hits the fan as TL defends one of their own.
14. I eat an orange.
15. I write this post.

So where exactly in this chain of events do you think EG crossed the line and needs to apologize?

This was all basically EG doing their best to recruit some new blood, Puma doing his best to find the best option offered to him, TSL not being able to compete due to their lack of cash flow and a tragic misunderstanding between Puma and Coach Lee which started an epic drawn out shitfest.
Dakk
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden572 Posts
July 22 2011 06:16 GMT
#232
Man, seams as if he is having a hard time dealing with this.
I will not fear, Fear is the mindkiller. Fear is the little death.
Applecakes
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia319 Posts
July 22 2011 06:18 GMT
#233
I wish I could send coach Lee a message of support
SlipperySnake
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
248 Posts
July 22 2011 06:19 GMT
#234
I am so tired of reading "proper channels" over and over again. There are no proper channels between teams because the teams don't have agreements between themselves. The only thing that is of any substance is the contract between a player and his team. If this contract has backout clauses that need to be negotiated then the teams can talk but if there is nothing other than feelings and honor then it is all on the player.

All this faux outrage is just ridiculous.
Grampz
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2147 Posts
July 22 2011 06:19 GMT
#235
the whole situation is just mind boggling. He is right, the korean sc2 scene is lagging behind. 1 Tournament in the "Nation's capital" so-to-speak, is just absurd. I am really glad the foreign scene is catching on but that means this kind of stuff will happen more often, because it is supposed to happen since there's really no reward for playing in korea. Really upsetting story.
TrickyGilligan
Profile Joined September 2010
United States641 Posts
July 22 2011 06:23 GMT
#236
I can't say I'm a big EG fan, but I'm having trouble seeing how they're the bad guys in this.

Not only did TSL not contract their players, they were in so much financial trouble that no was was getting paid. Players were even giving money back to the team to help it survive. How are they surprised that players would want to seek out other opportunities? Gotta pay people to keep them around, if you can't get sponsors or pay a salary,I don't see how you should expect your players to remain faithful.

I see this as a good thing for ESPORTS. The best players are following the money. If they do well and people show enthusiasm for this kind of thing, sponsors will start providing even more money. All this does is strengthen the competition and the scene as a whole, I'm all for it.

Oh, and put your players under contract, for god's sake. No contract = free agent = up for grabs.
"I've had a perfectly wonderful evening. But this wasn't it." -Groucho Marx
TheGiftedApe
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1243 Posts
July 22 2011 06:24 GMT
#237
It's really sad what has happened to TSL. As I was a big TSL fan as soon as fruitdealer and Tester joined them, especially since I recognized Coach Lee from Hyung Joon Becomes a pro gamer. With Fruitdealers beautiful play in season one that set the standard for GSL play and My personal sc2 crush on Tester since I main protoss. But with rain, puma, FD, ssks, all leaving it's kind of sad, it seemed at one time that TSL was by far the most dominant SC2 team, and now they are in turmoil.

I hope Coach Lee can summon some words of wisdom and motivation that will help to make this team into a top SC2 team once again.
xO-Gaming.com || [xO]TheGiftedApe.364 || xO-Gaming Manager.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
July 22 2011 06:24 GMT
#238
On July 22 2011 15:09 IslandLife wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 14:41 Daniel C wrote:
On July 22 2011 14:38 IslandLife wrote:
Asian and Asian-American culture is very different than Western culture about 'honor and respect' in things like this.


I can give you plenty of real-life examples of Koreans renegging on contracts, going back on their word, siphoning money out of workers' pensions, tax evasion, etc. Comments like the above are ignorant. Public disgrace is taken rather seriously, but that doesn't matter if you don't get caught.

Puma had no contract so he was free to make his own decision. Did they even think to offer him one the minute he got off a plane after winning NASL??


Yes, every human being and every culture is the same.


Don't be silly. If you don't have a contract, you don't have any claim. It's a bit offensive to have someone claim "honor" is more important in Asian culture than Western culture. My point is I think that's an invalid argument in this case. I think it's a great move by Puma and I look forward to seeing him play more in America.


By no means is it offensive, it is in fact true. If you put everything on a whiteboard then it's completely fair and legal. I agree on this point. By no means did AG do anything illegal. However the means he took to aquire a player, while in the western world, is perfectly fine and acceptable, but in Korea is extremely disrespectful. The coach treats his players as his own children, he feeds them, gives them a place to stay, and tries to do his utmost to assist them. When Clide and Sangho both feel indebted enough to give back their stipends/salary to help the team, you know how strong the bond is.

I can guarantee you AG does not share the same bond with his players, he may meet them several times a month, review salaries and performance, maybe drop by once in a while to watch practice, but the western system doesn't allow for such loyalties to form.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 22 2011 06:24 GMT
#239
On July 22 2011 15:19 SlipperySnake wrote:
I am so tired of reading "proper channels" over and over again. There are no proper channels between teams because the teams don't have agreements between themselves. The only thing that is of any substance is the contract between a player and his team. If this contract has backout clauses that need to be negotiated then the teams can talk but if there is nothing other than feelings and honor then it is all on the player.

All this faux outrage is just ridiculous.

I know what you mean. All I'm really getting from this is that Korean teams are somehow "family", and Coach Lee thinks there should be a system in place to stop "family members" from leaving if they want to.

If the cultural bond was really as strong as all these posters say it is, Puma wouldn't have talked with EG at all.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
LuckyMacro
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1482 Posts
July 22 2011 06:26 GMT
#240
Any final words?
First of all, I would like to apologize to FruitDealer and Tester for not fulfilling what I’ve promised to do.


Coach Lee T.T

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