• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:09
CEST 05:09
KST 12:09
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL47Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1[BSL20] ProLeague: Bracket Stage & Dates9GSL Ro4 and Finals moved to Sunday June 15th13Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results26
StarCraft 2
General
Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation CN community: Firefly accused of suspicious activities How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? Serious Question: Mech
Tourneys
Bellum Gens Elite: Stara Zagora 2025 $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? Mihu vs Korea Players Statistics
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals NA Team League 6/8/2025 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 2
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Cognitive styles x game perf…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 22649 users

TSL's Coach Lee speaks out on PuMa

Forum Index > SC2 General
764 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 5 37 38 39 Next All
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51416 Posts
July 22 2011 03:34 GMT
#1
From reddit. Note this wasn't done by me.

Translated by: wtreddit@reddit
Original Interview by: Ethan_Ahn@PlayXP

Hey guys, I spent a couple of hours translating the latest interview with coach Lee regarding this whole TSL / EG drama. I also want to take this moment to thank Milkis for doing the translations for the community. I never realized how hard this is and I definitely appreciate what you are doing for the foreign SC2 community. Anyways, hope this helps!
P.S. I don't have a TL forum account since I am just lurker, so if someone can post this over there, it would be great. Thanks!


[image loading]

Please provide us with some more details regarding your decision to release PuMa from the team and PuMa’s decision to join EG (Evil Geniuses).
Shortly after his arrival from the US, PuMa was not himself and was seen frequently sighing for about three days as if he was stressed out. Naturally, I was concerned to see this coming from someone who had just won the NASL. This attitude continued even after we won our GSTL match a few days later. I had never seen this side of PuMa during the one year we were together. Sensing something strange was going on, I asked him repeatedly what was wrong, but he did not give me an answer. But he finally opened up to me the day after the GSTL match about his dilemma. At that point, I felt that he had already made up his mind to leave the team.

I am sure you were very displeased at that point.
Definitely. When FruitDealer and Tester decided to leave TSL, we agreed that we would do our best to keep the remaining team intact, play together, and perform our best … all the while not putting heavy pressure on tournament results. But after hearing this news from PuMa, I did not know what to think or how to react.

I am sure you tried to keep him from leaving. What kind of conversation have you two had during this whole process?
That he shouldn’t leave like this and that this was not an agreement made through the right channels, nor an official trade between two teams. I even told him that there will be a lot of negative feedback surrounding this, but he was adamant that he would be able to live through this negativity. He felt bad about his decision and told us that he knew a lot about the team (EG) already. Since we are bound to run into each other again in the future, we decided to part ways amicably.

You have announced that the team is currently in “rebuilding” mode. I would presume that this event caused some turmoil internally as well.
Having been blindsided by the news, we did not know how to react. SangHo and Clide were worried and it came to light that they were also approached similarly in the past.

Are you saying that some other TSL members were approached as well?
Yes, I found out through this whole ordeal. When SangHo and Clide were approached by other teams, they told me that they declined the offers due to their respect for TSL and the importance of continuing with the team that they originally started with. They thought it was best not to tell me since they thought it would cause unnecessary distractions and concerns.

Why do you think this happened?
I think foreign teams approach them due to their fan base. Clide has a lot of foreign fans … about 2 to 3 thousand Twitter followers that consists mostly of foreigners. SangHo does as well. It’s a lot of fans considering they haven’t won a major tournament yet. As for PuMa, I believe the offers came in due to his victory at NASL, but am just disappointed that he made such a big decision in such a short time.

Why do you think he made the decision to join EG?
I guess the environment has a lot to do with it, and by that I mean the state of the Korean pro-gaming scene for Starcraft 2. If PuMa was placed in Code S, I believe he would not have taken the deal. From the Korean player’s perspective, getting into Code S is hard, and winning the GSL is even harder, thus the door of opportunity is very narrow. Experiencing the foreign Starcraft 2 scene, and seeing first-hand the impact it has on a global level probably made him think that his accomplishment in Korea is small compared to what he is capable of doing in the foreign scene.

I sense that you are not satisfied with the Korean SC2 pro-gaming scene.
If I said I was satisfied I would be lying. The difficulty in getting placed in the GSL and the fact that we have no other leagues are some of my concerns.
So why didn’t you sign PuMa to a contract beforehand?
At first, we wanted him on a contract, and so did the other teammates. But we did not feel it was necessary at the time since everyone showed so much passion and commitment. I trusted him, but now I am regretting my decision [to put off the contract] a little bit.

It seems like a lot of members have left TSL recently. Anything you would like to say about this?
Rain’s dad lives in New York and his dream has always been to go abroad. It was only after he left the team that he signed with Fnatic, so what happened with Rain is different from Puma’s situation. Part of the reason why Rain left originated from some of the issues that arised once our team entered into a “rebuilding” mode

What other issues did the team go through during this “rebuilding” phase?
TSL has not had a very good showing in tournaments so far this year, which lead to a decrease in number of members as well as sponsors. We initially cultivated a low pressure practice environment within our team, but we did not have good results in the tournaments. We had many members placed in Code S but none of them advanced far enough, which is why we decided to go into “rebuilding” mode. During this transitional process, FruitDealer and Tester preferred the low pressure environment, whereas the other team members felt it was best to incorporate a more rigid practice regimen. Due to poor showings in tournaments, the sponsorship funds decreased which naturally lead to pay cuts across the board. This whole incident lead to the eventual departure of FruitDealer and Tester, and Rain had trouble meshing with the other members due to the age difference (Rain being the youngest) on top of his desire to go abroad. If only we had accelerated our rebuilding phase, I believe Rain would have stayed with the team.

There are some rumors that there were salary issues with the players. What are your thoughts on this?
While I can’t give you the exact amounts, FruitDealer, Tester and Clide received a monthly salary from the team. Besides those three, the other members were on a stipend basis. After the rebuilding phase, Clide and SangHo returned the salaries / stipends that they received to provide some additional financial support for the whole team. We were very thankful for their gesture. Now that I think about it, our team was fairly quick in providing salaries compared to the others. Starcraft 2 was slow to catch on in Korea. On top of that, back then the economy was in a poor state and the sponsorship endowment was quite low. We were even in danger to losing our main team sponsor.

It seems like you should be taking appropriate measures to prevent this from happening again.
We are going to put everyone on a contract. Every team member has agreed to sign and no other player has a desire to leave the team.

What are the contract details?
First and foremost, we will be putting our 6 main players on a contract right away. The new recruits will eventually get onboard in the near future. We will be paying for all living expenses and focus on creating a favorable practice environment. As for the contract expirations, we are thinking about 1 year, but ultimately it will be tailored towards the players’ needs and wants.

I understand that there are very few sponsorship opportunities in the Korean market.
It has definitely become harder today than in the past due to poor tournament showings. I would like to take this time to thank our current sponsors for sticking with us through thick and thin. Some have even contacted us to tell us how much they appreciate our passion to do better and to wish us the best.

Anything you would like to say to the other teams?
I hope that the other teams don’t end up in a similar situation to us; furthermore, I would also like the players to understand some of these implications. It may not be easy to implement, but I hope to see standard agreements to become the norm when it comes to recruiting and having the rights to a player.

Some are putting the blame on your lack of coaching ability.
I agree to an extent, but this was really out of my control. Part of the blame lies on the systematic risks in terms of the bad economy and the small Korean SC2 fan base compared to SC1. Very few professional Korean SC2 players currently “enjoy” playing Starcraft 2 due to the small fan base. This needs to be solved in order for Starcraft 2 to flourish as an e-sport.

And how do you propose we solve this?
Our team’s mission has always been to promote the growth and popularity of Starcraft 2. We have published video tutorials and training videos for beginners, and so far, our first video received about 20,000 hits. We even purchased HD equipments to provide the viewers with quality content.

Any final words?
First of all, I would like to apologize to FruitDealer and Tester for not fulfilling what I’ve promised to do. Despite our differences, I really hope that they do well in their respective teams. I’d also like to thank my current players for believing in me and the team. Lastly, I would like to thank the foreign fans for their continued support.
Facebook Twitter Reddit
Commentator
Emporio
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3069 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 03:35:39
July 22 2011 03:34 GMT
#2
Holy crap dude, where's EG's statement in this? Biased as shit.

+ Show Spoiler +
jokes aside, good to see some solid facts when Coach Lee is calmer to clarify his side
How does it feel knowing you wasted another 3 seconds of your life reading this again?
Slakter
Profile Joined January 2010
Sweden1947 Posts
July 22 2011 03:37 GMT
#3
On July 22 2011 12:34 Emporio wrote:
Holy crap dude, where's EG's statement in this? Biased as shit.

+ Show Spoiler +
jokes aside, good to see some solid facts when Coach Lee is calmer to clarify his side

They are busy grubbing themselves in moneyz and laughing evily.

No, that wasnt serious. I am also awaiting their statement, will probably be very interesting.
Protoss, can't live with em', can't kill em'.
JiYan
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3668 Posts
July 22 2011 03:39 GMT
#4
im quite glad though that coach lee released this.
mols0n
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada388 Posts
July 22 2011 03:40 GMT
#5
I think it was he was very polite and fair.
Vexas
Profile Joined November 2010
United States98 Posts
July 22 2011 03:41 GMT
#6
This was a very well done interview and great information for the community. Thanks for the post.

Gl and Hf!
"Sooner or later we're all someone's dog" ~Angua
Vinx
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada259 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 03:42:45
July 22 2011 03:41 GMT
#7
I may be a just an asshole but when I got to this part "At first, we wanted him on a contract, and so did the other teammates. But we did not feel it was necessary at the time since everyone showed so much passion and commitment. I trusted him, but now I am regretting my decision [to put off the contract] a little bit." I just went... .r u kidding, its the 2011.... that whole part about honor and respect is kinda gone... i'm sad about it too but still know its a reality.
Starcraft 2 > RL ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
mols0n
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada388 Posts
July 22 2011 03:42 GMT
#8
On July 22 2011 12:37 Slakter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 12:34 Emporio wrote:
Holy crap dude, where's EG's statement in this? Biased as shit.

+ Show Spoiler +
jokes aside, good to see some solid facts when Coach Lee is calmer to clarify his side

They are busy grubbing themselves in moneyz and laughing evily.

No, that wasnt serious. I am also awaiting their statement, will probably be very interesting.


I don't care for EG's statement. They're a bunch of cheaters over there anyways. They poached Complexity from Jason Lake, and now they've done the same, low class organization. I was becoming a Puma fan, but I won't cheer for them while he is on that team
Backpack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1776 Posts
July 22 2011 03:42 GMT
#9
On July 22 2011 12:34 GTR wrote:




Please provide us with some more details regarding your decision to release PuMa from the team and PuMa’s decision to join EG (Evil Geniuses).
Shortly after his arrival from the US, PuMa was not himself and was seen frequently sighing for about three days as if he was stressed out. Naturally, I was concerned to see this coming from someone who had just won the NASL. This attitude continued even after we won our GSTL match a few days later. I had never seen this side of PuMa during the one year we were together. Sensing something strange was going on, I asked him repeatedly what was wrong, but he did not give me an answer. But he finally opened up to me the day after the GSTL match about his dilemma. At that point, I felt that he had already made up his mind to leave the team.



After seeing this, how can anybody hold EG responsible for "secretly" approaching Puma? The miscommunication was clearly between Puma and his team.
"You people need to just generally care a lot less about everything." -Zatic
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
July 22 2011 03:42 GMT
#10
Clide and Killer get tons of props for sticking with Lee and their team even when teams tried to poach them.

Also glad their top players are gonna get some good contracts. Also now knowing Rain's dad lives in New York makes the whole Rain leaving thing put into a different light.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
EtohEtoh
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada669 Posts
July 22 2011 03:42 GMT
#11
good inteview, but I think it's time to combine a bunch of the threads, with Lee's statements and EG's "unofficial" statements
lxanderl
Profile Joined April 2011
United States629 Posts
July 22 2011 03:42 GMT
#12
On July 22 2011 12:41 Vinx wrote:
I may be a just an asshole but when I got to this part "At first, we wanted him on a contract, and so did the other teammates. But we did not feel it was necessary at the time since everyone showed so much passion and commitment. I trusted him, but now I am regretting my decision [to put off the contract] a little bit." I just went... .r u kidding, its the 2011.... that whole part about honor and respect is kinda gone... i'm sad about it but still know its out there.

Your post made me sad
IcedBacon
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada906 Posts
July 22 2011 03:43 GMT
#13
On July 22 2011 12:41 Vinx wrote:
I may be a just an asshole but when I got to this part "At first, we wanted him on a contract, and so did the other teammates. But we did not feel it was necessary at the time since everyone showed so much passion and commitment. I trusted him, but now I am regretting my decision [to put off the contract] a little bit." I just went... .r u kidding, its the 2011.... that whole part about honor and respect is kinda gone... i'm sad about it too but still know its a reality.


The West != the East, that is all.
"I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA
Fionn
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States23455 Posts
July 22 2011 03:44 GMT
#14
On July 22 2011 12:41 Vinx wrote:
I may be a just an asshole but when I got to this part "At first, we wanted him on a contract, and so did the other teammates. But we did not feel it was necessary at the time since everyone showed so much passion and commitment. I trusted him, but now I am regretting my decision [to put off the contract] a little bit." I just went... .r u kidding, its the 2011.... that whole part about honor and respect is kinda gone... i'm sad about it too but still know its a reality.


People complained about the KESPA-way of doing things with iron clad contracts. They tried to be more relaxed/trusting in SC2, but it didn't work out and things are going to turn more into a KESPA situation in the future. Especially with teams like EG trying to poach top Korean players.
Writerhttps://twitter.com/FionnOnFire
Anarith
Profile Joined April 2010
United States61 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-22 03:50:53
July 22 2011 03:44 GMT
#15
Wonder what team inquired about Sangho and Clide. But major props to them for giving back their salary to TSL
slicknav
Profile Joined January 2011
1409 Posts
July 22 2011 03:44 GMT
#16
Seems like the coach is having a really tough time running TSL. It must be stressful trying to rebuild a team, finding sponsors, and improving players all at the same time. I hope in the end it all works out for coach Lee and the rest of TSL.
blah blah blah...
Klamity
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States994 Posts
July 22 2011 03:44 GMT
#17
I am a big Clide and Killer fan after this entire ordeal. I wish the entire TSL team well.

And EG can rot and stop posting results for all I care... oh wait, CHECK.
Don't believe in yourself, believe in me, who believes in you.
fearlessparagon
Profile Joined November 2010
United States104 Posts
July 22 2011 03:45 GMT
#18
I wonder what the future of Starcraft 2 in Korea would be like. It feels like another mass immigration wave that is hitting America, except they're Korean progamers.

Props to Sangho and Clide. Theyre both extraordinary amazing individuals as Artosis would say.
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win
Emporio
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3069 Posts
July 22 2011 03:45 GMT
#19
On July 22 2011 12:42 mols0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2011 12:37 Slakter wrote:
On July 22 2011 12:34 Emporio wrote:
Holy crap dude, where's EG's statement in this? Biased as shit.

+ Show Spoiler +
jokes aside, good to see some solid facts when Coach Lee is calmer to clarify his side

They are busy grubbing themselves in moneyz and laughing evily.

No, that wasnt serious. I am also awaiting their statement, will probably be very interesting.


I don't care for EG's statement. They're a bunch of cheaters over there anyways. They poached Complexity from Jason Lake, and now they've done the same, low class organization. I was becoming a Puma fan, but I won't cheer for them while he is on that team


What is the Complexity thing?
How does it feel knowing you wasted another 3 seconds of your life reading this again?
storm44
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1293 Posts
July 22 2011 03:46 GMT
#20
Wow I got so much respect for what Clide and Sangho did, rejecting offers from other teams and not telling the team so the team wouldn't be distracted, and then returning their salary so that their team could rebuild. With this much passion for the team TSL is definitely going to be a beast team again.
1 2 3 4 5 37 38 39 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 KFC #10: SC Evolution
CranKy Ducklings123
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft432
Nina 77
RuFF_SC2 63
Ketroc 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 1586
Sharp 81
Noble 19
Icarus 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever674
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1177
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox596
Mew2King56
Other Games
summit1g9072
shahzam1156
JimRising 638
Maynarde119
Livibee63
NeuroSwarm58
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1008
BasetradeTV68
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH264
• Mapu5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 35
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift6278
• Shiphtur339
Other Games
• Scarra1666
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 51m
WardiTV Invitational
7h 51m
WardiTV Invitational
7h 51m
PiGosaur Monday
20h 51m
GSL Code S
1d 6h
Rogue vs GuMiho
Maru vs Solar
Online Event
1d 20h
Replay Cast
1d 22h
GSL Code S
2 days
herO vs Zoun
Classic vs Bunny
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
Cheesadelphia
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.