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United States18814 Posts
On July 25 2011 12:05 CaptNfantasy wrote:
After listening to Alex Garfield talk on weapon of choice i felt like vomiting. I hate it when people use technicalities and "its just business" to torch anything that isnt in line with those rules in mind. We live in a world of both business and friendships. And a team built on friendships and loyalty is just as real as a team built on money.
I dont have the solution for what is right or wrong or who is right or wrong. But i miss the days when the greatest part of Starcraft was the game itself. Not the drama, not the hype, not the male soap opera that this has become. Nobody cares my tiny opinion, im nothing. But i used to come to this site because it gave me a break from nonsense and bullshit and i could come here and watch players play BW amazingly and it was worth it even at 5 am with the non english stream lagging like ass and still on the edge of my seat just to see the game itself unfold. Now its just a cesspool of drama and bullshit that doesnt have anything to do with the actual game itself. Maybe people love that. Maybe people think thats "great for esports". But i miss the good old days when the games themselves were all that was important. This whole new nerd soap opera drama garbage is really wrecking it for me.
The "international community" needs to stop patting itself on the back for being loyal to esports for a grand total of 1 year amidst the hype and all the easy money to be made. Ill be interested in seeing how much MLG, IGN, etc care about SC once there isnt any money to be made off of it anymore, be it in a year, 2 years, or 10.
I just came here to see players play well. This soap opera is tiring.
Not tiring enough to stop you from writing a soap opera contribution of your own. I guess if big words made me vomit I'd be tired too :D
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Coach Lee has commented on PlayXP's thread that talked about the EG's point of view with Milkis.
This is what he said:
지인에게 연락이 왔는데, 호준이가 먼저 접근했다고 했습니다.
그걸 저에게 전해달라고 했고. 전 호준이가 먼저 그럴 일은 없다고 생각했습니다.
그래서 트위터에 그것은 거짓말이라고 한 것 입니다. 확실히 알았으면 좋겠네요 EG가요.
호준이는 EG에 가게 될 것이며, TSL 선수단은 호준이를 모두 응원합니다. 물론 저도 포함이고요. 호준이도 잘 알고 있습니다. 이제 EG에는 신경안쓰고 6명+ 신입생 선수들과 잘 이끌어 나갈 것 입니다. 오늘 TSL은 가평으로 새로게 시작하고자 워크숍을 갑니다. 잘 다녀 오겠습니다.
Someone that was related to the issue called me and told me that Puma contacted EG first. I thought that was false. That's why I posted on Twitter that it was a lie. I hope EG knows this well. Puma will go to EG and TSL will cheer for Puma. Of course, me included. Puma knows this as well. I won't care about EG anymore but the new 6+ recruits. I'll be heading to workshop. I'll be back.
Also....
그리고 호준이에게 들은 바, EG에서 시일안에 연락을 저에게 전화를 해도 되겠냐고 물었는데 왜 이렇게 인터뷰를 했는지 이해가 안되네요.
And Puma told me that EG wanted to know (or was gonna [sry, not sure what he meant]) call me by Sunday so I do not know why the interview went like this.
아울러 연습실, 한국팀, 동료들등이 없다면 수준높은 연습과 실전경기가 없다면 그들이 원하고, 환호하는 경기가 나올까요? 그건 방식에 있어서 장단점이 있다고 보입니다.
In addition, if there were no practice house, Korean team, peers, etc., there will be no high quality practice and games. Will this provide the fans with exciting games they want? I think there are pros and cons to the method.
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^
Too bad most people won't read that, it would change a lot of opinions.
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United States18814 Posts
On July 25 2011 12:16 ssi.bal-listic wrote:
Coach Lee has commented on PlayXP's thread that talked about the EG's point of view with Milkis.
This is what he said:
지인에게 연락이 왔는데, 호준이가 먼저 접근했다고 했습니다.
그걸 저에게 전해달라고 했고. 전 호준이가 먼저 그럴 일은 없다고 생각했습니다.
그래서 트위터에 그것은 거짓말이라고 한 것 입니다. 확실히 알았으면 좋겠네요 EG가요.
호준이는 EG에 가게 될 것이며, TSL 선수단은 호준이를 모두 응원합니다. 물론 저도 포함이고요. 호준이도 잘 알고 있습니다. 이제 EG에는 신경안쓰고 6명+ 신입생 선수들과 잘 이끌어 나갈 것 입니다. 오늘 TSL은 가평으로 새로게 시작하고자 워크숍을 갑니다. 잘 다녀 오겠습니다.
Someone that was related to the issue called me and told me that Puma contacted EG first. I thought that was false. That's why I posted on Twitter that it was a lie. I hope EG knows this well. Puma will go to EG and TSL will cheer for Puma. Of course, me included. Puma knows this as well. I won't care about EG anymore but the new 6+ recruits. I'll be heading to workshop. I'll be back.
Also....
그리고 호준이에게 들은 바, EG에서 시일안에 연락을 저에게 전화를 해도 되겠냐고 물었는데 왜 이렇게 인터뷰를 했는지 이해가 안되네요.
And Puma told me that EG wanted to know (or was gonna [sry, not sure what he meant]) call me by Sunday so I do not know why the interview went like this.
아울러 연습실, 한국팀, 동료들등이 없다면 수준높은 연습과 실전경기가 없다면 그들이 원하고, 환호하는 경기가 나올까요? 그건 방식에 있어서 장단점이 있다고 보입니다.
In addition, if there were no practice house, Korean team, peers, etc., there will be no high quality practice and games. Will this provide the fans with exciting games they want? I think there are pros and cons to the method.
Wow, this shits on so many drama queens' arguments, hilarious. Glad to see that Coach Lee is doing his part to defuse the situation.
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Can anyone confirm that translation?
Most the
그리고 호준이에게 들은 바, EG에서 시일안에 연락을 저에게 전화를 해도 되겠냐고 물었는데 왜 이렇게 인터뷰를 했는지 이해가 안되네요.
And Puma told me that EG wanted to know (or was gonna [sry, not sure what he meant]) call me by Sunday so I do not know why the interview went like this.
part 
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On July 23 2011 21:53 monXikk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 23 2011 20:48 tiaz wrote:On July 22 2011 13:30 TheButtonmen wrote:
If you dislike how EG has handled this then A) contact their management, B) Vote with your feet (Don't watch events they run, don't watch their streams) and C) support the sponsors of the team(s) you do like rather then EG's when making purchases.
Visited myeg.net for the perhaps third - but definitely last - time in my life. Gathered a list of the sponsors that I can avoid. Its basically the only easy way to even remotely try to keep and stick to your personal principles. So: Intel -> Always gone with AMD anyways, no problem Steelseries -> I looove my 5HV2USB headset, but it actually recently broke (no sound in the right ear sometimes, have to smack it around a bit for it to start working) and its only ~1 year old. Guess I will go with a Razer headset next! Monster Energy -> Who the fuck drinks Monster Energy anyway, it taste like shit. Redbull all the way! Kingston HyperX -> Fine, I'll buy Corsair or Crucial then. Bigfoot Networks -> You know what they say: "Big feet = Big dick (aka EG) Ventrilo -> Teamspeak ftw Dont support companies that support 'esport', awesome idea -_- This kind of posts should be bannable.
I personally found the "Always gone with AMD anyways," part hilarious...
Also buying audio from Razer... ugh
what a post.
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On July 25 2011 13:01 SafeAsCheese wrote:Can anyone confirm that translation? Most the Show nested quote +그리고 호준이에게 들은 바, EG에서 시일안에 연락을 저에게 전화를 해도 되겠냐고 물었는데 왜 이렇게 인터뷰를 했는지 이해가 안되네요.
And Puma told me that EG wanted to know (or was gonna [sry, not sure what he meant]) call me by Sunday so I do not know why the interview went like this.
part
Puma told Lee that EG wanted to call Lee soon.
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player wasn't under contract. Passionate fans are pissed off... w/e.
I had to sign a contract for my sponsorship in paintball...I wasn't even paid.
Bottom line here is Lee is a bad manager, he's a bad business man. Half of the primary team has defected. He sent a kid who see's an easier way out out of the country on his teams dime without any contract. Many teams have tried to sign koreans or work out arrangements with korean teams before. Also, 2 of his other players had already been approached but never told the manager. Yet, this is the kids fault? Why wouldn't his team tell him if they got other offers while under contract??? Suddenly this is a surprise? In a book its called foreshadowing.
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For being a team which has been around for a long time and has been very successful, they sure are n00bs. It couldn't be more obvious how much respect they would lose because of this. EG gets a good korean player, cool, now we want to watch them and support them. Oh wait, they are assholes, let's ignore them.
A team aquiring a non-contracted player should be all in a days work... but somehow they mess it up and now the majority of the community looks down on them.
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well my opinion that as long as this dosent relly damage the sport im fine with it and i wish puma all the good luck in the world .
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On July 25 2011 17:18 Tobberoth wrote:
For being a team which has been around for a long time and has been very successful, they sure are n00bs. It couldn't be more obvious how much respect they would lose because of this. EG gets a good korean player, cool, now we want to watch them and support them. Oh wait, they are assholes, let's ignore them.
A team aquiring a non-contracted player should be all in a days work... but somehow they mess it up and now the majority of the community looks down on them.
Aaaaannddd there we have it. From:
-EG sniped puma right out from under TSL, what assholes!
to
-EG may not have directly sniped puma yet, but that's obviously what they're planning, what assholes!
to
-So maybe puma was the one who screwed up, it was EG that put him in that position, what assholes!
to
-Ok so puma directly told lee that EG wanted to contact him but lee jumped the gun anyways for some reason or another...lol EG sucks.
With most people naturally sticking with the first theory and not bothering to read further. It's a wonder people like garfield manage to not explode whenever things like this happen. Doubly so when it seems like an official teamliquid policy to shit on EG whenever possible.
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On July 26 2011 00:09 rdj107 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2011 17:18 Tobberoth wrote:
For being a team which has been around for a long time and has been very successful, they sure are n00bs. It couldn't be more obvious how much respect they would lose because of this. EG gets a good korean player, cool, now we want to watch them and support them. Oh wait, they are assholes, let's ignore them.
A team aquiring a non-contracted player should be all in a days work... but somehow they mess it up and now the majority of the community looks down on them. Aaaaannddd there we have it. From: -EG sniped puma right out from under TSL, what assholes! to -EG may not have directly sniped puma yet, but that's obviously what they're planning, what assholes! to -So maybe puma was the one who screwed up, it was EG that put him in that position, what assholes! to -Ok so puma directly told lee that EG wanted to contact him but lee jumped the gun anyways for some reason or another...lol EG sucks. With most people naturally sticking with the first theory and not bothering to read further. It's a wonder people like garfield manage to not explode whenever things like this happen. Doubly so when it seems like an official teamliquid policy to shit on EG whenever possible.
If EG never approached Puma then they would have said this the first chance they got, why would they agree to the currently believed story if it paints the situation worse than it was. Alex Garfield already gave EG's side of the story and there was no mention of Puma approaching EG first.
Either way they went about it, they still took advantage of the lack of contracts where there should have been contracts to take the star player from a korean team, by offering him piles of money.
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EG explained their position in detail on Weapon of Choice. It's worth a listen to if you have the time.
Personally, I feel that there is so much money and so many tournaments outside of Korea, that I like seeing top Korean players take this opportunity to make a better living for themselves. I think that the idea that Korean players should only play on Korean teams is more based on national pride than practicality. There are a lot of Korean players who would like to play in more foreign tournaments but are not able to. The GSL is structured to make players commit fully to it. Puma won $50k at NASL and he will certainly see more winnings like that outside of Korea.
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EG has sponsorship dollars that want to be put behind good players...
Korean teams have a ton of players that play for pittances struggling to get results in a single tournament and can't afford to send them to any foreign tourneys.
Don't know where all this approaching business came from, it doesn't really matter IMO who approached who if TSL can't compete with the offer.
Honor systems are cool, but the world isn't full of Don Drapers. If his players weren't signed, a lot of it has to do with not having fix terms to offer.
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On July 26 2011 00:50 TerranMeApart wrote:
EG explained their position in detail on Weapon of Choice. It's worth a listen to if you have the time.
Personally, I feel that there is so much money and so many tournaments outside of Korea, that I like seeing top Korean players take this opportunity to make a better living for themselves. I think that the idea that Korean players should only play on Korean teams is more based on national pride than practicality. There are a lot of Korean players who would like to play in more foreign tournaments but are not able to. The GSL is structured to make players commit fully to it. Puma won $50k at NASL and he will certainly see more winnings like that outside of Korea.
It's not what they did that is contentious but how they did it, after Puma's big NASL win and without the other team's consent. It might have been a good business decision but from a relations point of view it was very disrespectful to TSL and a step backward for unifying esports. I bet koreans will be more cautious and less trusting of westerners in the future as a result of this.
Whether koreans are paid/treated properly or not is a whole other kettle of fish and doesn't justify EG's actions, whatever their intentions were the way they went about it was wrong (and frankly I highly doubt they had such noble intentions of supporting the player, else they would simply sponsor him like other teams have done).
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On July 26 2011 00:48 XenoX101 wrote:
If EG never approached Puma then they would have said this the first chance they got, why would they agree to the currently believed story if it paints the situation worse than it was. Alex Garfield already gave EG's side of the story and there was no mention of Puma approaching EG first.
Either way they went about it, they still took advantage of the lack of contracts where there should have been contracts to take the star player from a korean team, by offering him piles of money.
Piles of money? Enlighten us since you seem to know, what exactly did they offer Puma. Do you have contract details? Is it 50k, maybe 100k salary, more?
EG did exactly what any self respecting team should have done. They were looking to recruit, they went to an event and handed out business cards to players. One of the players was interested and came back to EG to see what they might offer him. It's up the players to respect their contracts or as a free agent (such as Puma) look after his interests. Nothing shady about this practice at all. If tl, dignitas, fxo, fnatic, etcetera are looking to bolster their teams and not doing the same I'd question their management. You acquire players by actively going out and scouting them, letting them know you're interested and then you wait for them to come to you.
If Puma (or any player) showed interest in EG's offer that was under contract, this obviously goes a very different direction. Either it's dropped at that moment, or EG goes to TSL and inquires to what the cost of his rights might be.
eSports isn't some world of rainbow pooping unicorns fairytale honour. It's a business, it will be run like a business. With contracts to protect your assets, buyouts to acquire another teams players and free agents going to the highest bidder. Welcome to the real world.
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On July 26 2011 00:48 XenoX101 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2011 00:09 rdj107 wrote:On July 25 2011 17:18 Tobberoth wrote:
For being a team which has been around for a long time and has been very successful, they sure are n00bs. It couldn't be more obvious how much respect they would lose because of this. EG gets a good korean player, cool, now we want to watch them and support them. Oh wait, they are assholes, let's ignore them.
A team aquiring a non-contracted player should be all in a days work... but somehow they mess it up and now the majority of the community looks down on them. Aaaaannddd there we have it. From: -EG sniped puma right out from under TSL, what assholes! to -EG may not have directly sniped puma yet, but that's obviously what they're planning, what assholes! to -So maybe puma was the one who screwed up, it was EG that put him in that position, what assholes! to -Ok so puma directly told lee that EG wanted to contact him but lee jumped the gun anyways for some reason or another...lol EG sucks. With most people naturally sticking with the first theory and not bothering to read further. It's a wonder people like garfield manage to not explode whenever things like this happen. Doubly so when it seems like an official teamliquid policy to shit on EG whenever possible. If EG never approached Puma then they would have said this the first chance they got, why would they agree to the currently believed story if it paints the situation worse than it was. Alex Garfield already gave EG's side of the story and there was no mention of Puma approaching EG first. Either way they went about it, they still took advantage of the lack of contracts where there should have been contracts to take the star player from a korean team, by offering him piles of money.
It sounds like you didn't listen to weapon of choice, or you would have gone with the argument that he explicitly states that he approached puma first. By handing him a card. Listen from about 22 to 35 and that's the entire summary of events from his perspective. He also mentions something about eg looking to develop more than just puma in korea, but I guess that was drowned in the bigger news.
As to the lack of a statement it was stupid of garfield not to immediately post something here along the lines of a simple "puma is not signed to eg" and direct the talk into questions here that he can answer in plaintext; spoken statements just aren't as effective as people generally either don't listen or misunderstand. But while his approach amounted to a simple hello, this forum loves dissecting semantics and saying puma was the one to initiate the conversation would end up sounding like a direct lie in the largely hating atmosphere that tl was already in.
He also disagreed with lee's story, but it took longer for him to talk about how he respects lee and is sure lee is a great guy etc than he took to say lee was wrong. Again the issue with spoken word statements.
Lastly yes, there should have been contracts. Lee's bad for not having any. Eg has sponsors and through them the money to support players that otherwise wouldn't be making anything and just might want to. This makes eg in the wrong how.
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i feel bad for him, but it is his own fault for now having puma on contract.
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Wow. Mad respect to Clide and SangHo. Willl be cheering for them whenever they play in the gsl from now on.
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Mildly hilarious that people are going "Oh, poor Mr. Lee, feel so bad for him", and then turn around and say that "AG is a master spin doctor".
Bottom line, Puma wanted money, TSL wasn't paying him. EG was recruiting, Puma jumped on the chance.
Everything else is Lee spinning a story about some tight-knit family that EG destroyed, and AG spinning a story the isolationist Korean scene.
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EPT
