EPTTo those of you who say I don't know what I'm talking about, that's not really relevant - any time one side is extremely unhappy with a deal, it could have been handled better.
TSL's Coach Lee speaks out on PuMa - Page 36
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Loodah
335 Posts
To those of you who say I don't know what I'm talking about, that's not really relevant - any time one side is extremely unhappy with a deal, it could have been handled better. | ||
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holyone
Portugal43 Posts
EG poached the player without contacting TSL, that i think its un-ethical so i dont like it one bit. TSL didnt had players on contract, they really fkd up in this point. Yes PuMa was "free" and he wants to change to EG due to pay or whatever reason but for me its the lack of integrity EG had on not telling TSL they aproached him in order for him to change team. The outcome, most probably, would have been the same since Puma liked EG proposal. | ||
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brachester
Australia1786 Posts
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
On July 24 2011 16:08 Sky0 wrote: lol i think its funny how jealous people are of puma actually getting a contract and getting paid what hes worth. this whole trust and faith with no contract is just some socialist bs that is used cause theres no money to pay there players. gratz to PUMA i hope this changes your the life and the money you make off sc2 can help to provide a better life for you and your family. I'm just sad that so many SC2 fans are so obsessed with business and money. This is why I'm certain we'll never have a 10 year old e-sport scene in the west. It all turns into a superficial business scheme (that doesn't even work) so fast for so many people and teams involved, and it ends by them scraping for money to pay their contracted players in a year or two. All business is basically about abusing competition and screwing them over in any legal way you can, and EG are the experts in that, they've a habit of buying their way to the top (see CS). This is partly why it's so ironic hearing AG and sirscoots regularly giving people lessons about e-sports on djwheat's shows because in their eyes they are the veterans. They've been there and done that. They know how it's done. They've been part of every long-term successful and popular e-sport scene in the west... oh wait, there are none. Why would you support this attitude? Why would you welcome this to Starcraft? Is the short term money gain really for a few people really worth all the irreversible damage done by teams and their managers who want to play the role of big businessmen and bring the WORST side of professional sports everywhere they go, and now to SC2? Because my answer is no. I mean look at EG, they don't even have have a team house or a centralized practice location (they sure keep talking about it a lot though), in one whole year since release they weren't capable of setting up the infrastructure a professional team should have and all their current players are only getting worse and falling increasingly behind the top - but one thing they're relentlessly active in is poaching top players (Idra, Demuslim, now Puma). Are they the example of good business in e-sports with a long term perspective? Again, no. Every time a fan brings up "business" (especially the kind of business that EG runs) as something positive, I get this sick feeling in my stomach as well as the urge to post yet another reply on this even though I don't fucking want to. | ||
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samsonasu
United States14 Posts
Any long-term solution for making esports viable will involve needing more money. You think the high production value of the GSL is free? Why are you not posting threads about Artosis "selling out" every time he plugs Gatorade, Pepsi, Intel, LG, etc? You think those companies are supporting esports out of the goodness of their hearts? Because they think Starcraft is a fun game, they shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars? You call these players "professional" gamers, and I think you need to look up what that word means. It doesn't mean you're good at something, or that you necessarily enjoy it, it means that you make money doing it. Period. It pays the bills. EG did nothing wrong, Puma did nothing wrong, more money and competition between teams makes for a better scene, not a worse one. If you're worried about "ethics" and "loyalty" go watch a high school or college league. But if you want to see e-sports succeed on a legitimate level you need to realize that money is what makes the whole thing possible, and business is how you make money, and there is nothing "evil" about making money providing people with something they want. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 24 2011 23:36 samsonasu wrote: My god people, business is not about "screwing over competition." The GSL, NASL, TSL, IPL, this site I'm posting on right now, even the actual friggin GAME of starcraft are all only possible in the first place because of businesses. There is nothing "superficial" about making money, its literally the only reason any of this exists. Any long-term solution for making esports viable will involve needing more money. You think the high production value of the GSL is free? Why are you not posting threads about Artosis "selling out" every time he plugs Gatorade, Pepsi, Intel, LG, etc? You think those companies are supporting esports out of the goodness of their hearts? Because they think Starcraft is a fun game, they shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars? You call these players "professional" gamers, and I think you need to look up what that word means. It doesn't mean you're good at something, or that you necessarily enjoy it, it means that you make money doing it. Period. It pays the bills. EG did nothing wrong, Puma did nothing wrong, more money and competition between teams makes for a better scene, not a worse one. If you're worried about "ethics" and "loyalty" go watch a high school or college league. But if you want to see e-sports succeed on a legitimate level you need to realize that money is what makes the whole thing possible, and business is how you make money, and there is nothing "evil" about making money providing people with something they want. Yeah sure, TL exist only because of "money"... No it exist because of the dedication of a number of fan who gave a certain number of things and never asked anything back, like most of the greatest competition back in the days. That now you have enough money for big companies to come to this market, that is another matter, and Talin is right when he says that if we do not care about it, it could destroy many things we loved about the RTS community until now. | ||
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ImThatGuy
United States3 Posts
I'm just sad that so many SC2 fans are so obsessed with business and money. It's just sad to see so many SC2 fans oblivious to how e-sports content (or any other sport/entertainment) is provided. The GSL, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. aren't charity organizations where some rich guy buys a studio, production crew, and an army of other employees work out of the goodness of their hearts. Just like the players for EG, TL, FnaticMSI, FXOpen, ST, IM etc. aren't foregoing potential careers/jobs to live in poverty playing video games all day. It's extremely naive to ignore the fact that almost NOTHING in entertainment/sports is going to be provided unless there are businesses willing to use it as an advertising opportunity. Without this relationship between businesses and (e)sports, there would be no professional level (e)sports. Players and fans of any (e)sport who are fortunate enough to have businesses interested in funding their (e)sport through advertising budgets should be thankful. I assure you that there are fans/players for countless other (e)sports that would die for the opportunity to make a living playing their (e)sport as professionals or have limitless viewing access to the professionals of their sport. This is an amazing time for esports, SC2 specifically, because big name companies are gambling that their advertising budgets will be productive if used to sponsor this game. What's great is that they methods in which they allocate their money is diversifying (from events and teams, to individual players and community media outlets). Congrats to Puma and EG, this is a step forward in esports. Special recognition should be given to Puma for realizing the atrocity of the current Korean SC2 scene and getting out. The number of Korean players earning sustainable money playing SC2 is extremely small, especially as a percentage of the total talent pool. I think that once this all settles down, there will be many other players waking up to the fact that they aren't being compensated fairly, especially when compared to the international esports market. | ||
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harhar!
Germany190 Posts
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IAttackYou
United States330 Posts
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
Good job acquiring a great player and helping to fulfil a young man's ambition, EG.  | ||
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ProBot
Canada170 Posts
EG should have kept thier Original Canadian CS team that started EG in the first place with Stevenson and Lari, they were the best thing to ever happen to EG. If players aren't on contract who's fault and problem is that? It's business, it's how shit works in every other major sporting organization. Puma was a FREE AGENT, a team made an offer to a FREE AGENT, that FREE AGENT took the offer. Could it been done differently, absolutely however if Puma straight up told Alex that it was best for him and him alone to approach Mr. Lee then someone please explain to me how any of this is EG's fault or problem? | ||
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Fatze
Germany1342 Posts
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P_Dub_S
United States1 Post
On July 24 2011 18:30 holyone wrote: You are right Loodah. EG poached the player without contacting TSL, that i think its un-ethical so i dont like it one bit. TSL didnt had players on contract, they really fkd up in this point. Yes PuMa was "free" and he wants to change to EG due to pay or whatever reason but for me its the lack of integrity EG had on not telling TSL they aproached him in order for him to change team. The outcome, most probably, would have been the same since Puma liked EG proposal. How do you poach a player that isn't signed under a contract? The way I see it PUMA chose to play under TSL with no contract so it's PUMA's choice for who he wants to play for. Had he been under contract then I would understand your comment as un-ethical. | ||
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Mackh
France132 Posts
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SafeAsCheese
United States4924 Posts
On July 25 2011 02:32 Mackh wrote: Shame on EG, What about making a campaign explaining this on the sponsor's facebook pages? It would give a bit of justice down there, don't you think ? Why not just go kick Puna in the nuts as well for wanting more money? Grow up. | ||
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Mackh
France132 Posts
But if the sponsors are unaware of what they actually encourage and the image that is resulting, it would be just fair to warn them | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
On July 25 2011 02:59 Mackh wrote: Dunno if I need to grow up, maybe But if the sponsors are unaware of what they actually encourage and the image that is resulting, it would be just fair to warn them It'd be a good suggestion to not work with TSL, as any disagreement is going to end up splashed all over websites. The only thing EG did wrong was trust Puma's version of the conversation with Lee was accurate. | ||
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Quesa
United States304 Posts
On July 25 2011 01:04 ProBot wrote: People don't know your history, for those who mention that EG took Complexity's roster, thats how complexity came to be. Jason Lake was on a shitty team with shitty players, but he had money, so he went around sniping top tier CS players from other teams to join his because he could offer them a few bucks. EG should have kept thier Original Canadian CS team that started EG in the first place with Stevenson and Lari, they were the best thing to ever happen to EG. If players aren't on contract who's fault and problem is that? It's business, it's how shit works in every other major sporting organization. Puma was a FREE AGENT, a team made an offer to a FREE AGENT, that FREE AGENT took the offer. Could it been done differently, absolutely however if Puma straight up told Alex that it was best for him and him alone to approach Mr. Lee then someone please explain to me how any of this is EG's fault or problem? I agree with you about the Stevenson/Lari team, the stupidest thing I ever heard Wheat say was some rambling 'could you ever have imagined EG having such an amazing team' like they weren't one of the best performing NA teams with consistently solid LAN results and the best Canadian team for half a decade. I also don't really get why Col's old roster choosing to go somewhere else makes EG the bad guys over.. Col's old roster for not being grateful to the support Lake gave them. | ||
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Earawen
France51 Posts
 But keep it up coach Lee ! TSL is a great team and I hope the best for your team in the future ! Starcraft 2 popularity in growing fast around the world and i'm sure it will transition in korea from sc1 to sc2. I really believe sc2 has an amaizing future in esport, in and outside korea. Best of luck coach Lee ! much love from France <3 (you know, that lil country in Europe ^-^) | ||
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iZaVi
United States2 Posts
On July 24 2011 18:30 holyone wrote: EG poached the player without contacting TSL, l. Its not that they poached without contacting TSL. It is that they didnt have a chance to talk to them before coach lee revealed this. | ||
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