TSL's Coach Lee speaks out on PuMa - Page 35

On July 22 2011 12:42 mols0n wrote:


I don't care for EG's statement. They're a bunch of cheaters over there anyways. They poached Complexity from Jason Lake, and now they've done the same, low class organization. I was becoming a Puma fan, but I won't cheer for them while he is on that team

On July 24 2011 06:51 UkGracken wrote:
To be honest this news has been around for a few days and i haven't posted till now because i wanted to be sure in what i think, I really think they should not be approaching players on contract, but as puma was not on contract due to financial situations or "trust" whatever reason this is not wrong by EG and its crazy to see this reaction by the Korean community but i think its for the following i hope!

regarding clide and sangho who i think were on contracts whoever approached them is disgusting!

Hope it doesn't go to more crazy then this, already Koreans and foreign teams going together

On July 24 2011 06:19 Ashtamnire wrote:


I would like to ask you, How long does that duty last? If Puma would have said to his coach "I want to join EG, but I want to carry out my duty for TSL" for how long should he stay on a team before it's acceptable for him to leave? As there was no contract with TSL, for how long should Puma have needed to stay with TSL by this East-Asian sense of duty to his '(parent/elder/teacher/mentor)' ? A month? A year? Rest of his life? What would you consider to be an acceptable timeframe?

--

Also some people are implying that Puma owns something to TSL because they "took care of him" but surely everyone understands that while TSL was providing Puma with great environment to train, Puma himself was providing himself as a training partner to a team helping them grow into what they are today.

Also I find it quite interesting that in a playxp interview Coach Lee tells Puma and I quote article "I even told him that there will be a lot of negative feedback surrounding this" and then he himself goes and makes majority of that negative feedback. To me it seems like Coach Lee would make a great Scumbag meme picture with text "Warns that there will be negative feedback - Creates all the negative feedback himself". No respect for that kind of behavior.

Also this meeting that is going to happen, won't really matter much. Sure probably every good player who is active Now will be signed on a contract and maybe it even will mean that they won't be able to participate in International tournaments, who knows. But please do remember that Players are NEVER forced to sign any contract.

Only reason why KESPA was able to force their players into ironclad contracts is the lack of true alternative to South Korean SC:BW scene. There is no SC:BW scene outside South Korea, so SC:BW players had no alternative than to accept whatever bullshit KESPA fed them.

The way I see it, eSports (StarCraft 2) grew to what it was 2010/early 2011 in EU/US without any help from South Korean players. And by that I mean myriad of tournaments we have right now that do just fine without South Korean players. If there would be 0 players coming from GSL to MLG I would still watch it, because I like the game, not South Koreans.

And I for one am Sure that we will grow no matter what South Korea decided to do. I'm sure hope that what happens in South Korea will have absolutely nothing to do with what happens outside South Korea.

On July 24 2011 10:23 dookudooku wrote:


I'm glad you asked about the timeframe.

Things aren't so black and white in Asian culture. Western thinking is about freedom, with laws to maintain order. Asians focus more on tradition and judgement.

As an example, as a grown-up, if you do something that your parents look down upon, it's often preferable to lie to your parents rather than hurt their feelings. That doesn't mean honestly isn't important among Asians. And maybe you shouldn't have done what you did (something as simple as going to a bar can be viewed very negatively by parents). But the important thing is to realize what your action means to your parents, think about how they would feel, and respond correctly. It's a very delicate process that forces each individual to think long and hard.

Puma's duty to his coach and TSL DOES NOT mean he can't leave. I even said so in my original post. Duty DOES NOT mean you have to follow everything your parent/teacher/elder says. Instead, it's about showing respect and a real, genuine care and concern. And following what others say is part of that, but there is NO NUMBER or PERCENTAGE that can be given.

I'm sure Puma could have left it a way that without bringing shame. Coach Lee's response suggests that it was the manner in which he left that infuriated him. I think none of us know exactly what happened, so we can't be sure. Maybe the coach is crazy. But something simple as treating the team to a nice dinner, or a gift, makes a big difference in these situations.

On July 24 2011 00:31 Technique wrote:

Unless you want something back from that community at 1 point or another, which they do.

So in conclusion, EG is just not very bright thinking they can snatch like that without it being a ''big deal''.

On July 24 2011 03:41 Shiori wrote:

I guarantee I know more about Scoots's history than you ever will. EG has a reputation for underhanded tactics and rude management. Do you seriously think this is the first publicity stunt they've bungled?

Your comments about Wall St actually prove my point (falsifying records to ensure a public image, etc).

On July 24 2011 12:14 12oz wrote:
i don't really understand all the eg hate. Puma made a decision, eg didn't force him to do anything he didn't want to.

On July 23 2011 10:07 Sylvr wrote:
You're assuming an awful lot about human nature. The stories and articles about people giving up opportunities and making sacrifices for their teams and friends make headlines and the Silver Screen because they aren't the norm. For every guy in a platoon that jumps on a grenade to save his comrades, there are a dozen or more that didn't (and likely countless platoons where NOBODY did where everyone just got a body full of shrapnel).

On July 23 2011 10:07 Sylvr wrote:
1. Was it wrong for Puma to leave TSL?

My answer is no. There is nothing wrong with trying to better your own situation. If you find a better job, nobody can blame you for taking it, even if you've been with your current company for years. It's not betrayal, and that has nothing to do with contracts. You can be friends with people without being on the same team.

On July 23 2011 10:07 Sylvr wrote:
4. Is TSL's situation a sad sad story?

It sure is. Losing players left and right. Having trouble keeping sponsors and quickly running out of money. Your first big tournament result is followed by some unfortunate news. It's like they were finally on an upswing, and they hit a brick wall. It really is tragic, but one thing I know is that the source of their misfortune is not Puma, and it isn't EG. Lee's coaching has been called into question. TSL's skill level may be to blame. Perhaps it's the Korean SC2 scene in general that is the core of their problems. Or maybe a hundred other things that none of us have any clue about. Coach Lee and TSL are doing an excellent job of painting themselves as the victims, and maybe they think they are, but when I see stories of the players giving back their salaries and stipends to help a faltering team, I don't get all warm and fuzzy inside, and I don't see heroes in the making; I see naive kids who don't know the value of themselves and their money, and incompetent adults who have to be bailed out by their charges.

On July 24 2011 13:04 SoKHo wrote:


Lol, I agree that Puma was at fault, but if you think EG is innocent, your disillusion. According to your logic, if I offer money to a hitman to kill someone, I did nothing wrong. I didn't force him to kill the person, I just gave him the option. I know my example is an extreme example, but you can't say EG did nothing wrong.

On July 24 2011 16:08 originalred04 wrote:
Most of you people are stupid, the goal of these teams is to make money and put together the best team they can. He had no contract why would EG talk to TSL management? Puma mad a decision to make more money and have more exposure...what an idiot....how dare he make a decision that makes him more money and furthers along his career! What a bunch of hypocrites,posting all their garbage, shut up and think before you post. Congrats to Puma and EG, best of luck to TSL. Clearly they need to get their crap together, they have lost 4 of their best players.