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iYiYi
United States489 Posts
Clide doesn't turn his back on his team for dirty cash. Whatever happened to team spirit? Working for a greater goal. Starcraft 2 players needs more ambition! TSL despite losing Puma are still a scary team, and I think they will only get better from here. TSL fighting! | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5365 Posts
On July 22 2011 16:28 LittleAtari wrote: I can't believe people want to boycott EG. It would be BM to harass a contracted member of a team with constant offers, but Puma was not under contract. A contract tells your team members that they are solid and wanted. Even if someone is contracted, it is also possible to buy someone out of their contract. This was a decision that Puma made and EG saw an opportunity. They offered him something better than he was getting on his own team. What was he supposed to do? Wait around and maybe he'll make code S? Sit around without a set/stable salary and live off stipends on a team that was making cuts? A lot of people here are just being unreasonable. I am not so sure they offered him something better, though. Without a good practice environment he will deteriorate skill-wise rather quickly. If he drops to the level of foreigners, he won't be a contender for major even in (large) foreign events (those have been dominated by players with Korean training). It's kinda like if an up and coming football player from Europe/South America went to some average MLS club because it paid better at the time. Sure, he'd earn more for a while but he'd have to consider that his early retirement, tbh. | ||
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Spinfusor
Australia410 Posts
1) EG doing a hostile, but legitimate acquisition of Puma 2) Puma (entirely or partially) of his own accord legitimately, though rudely, terminating his relationship with TSL. What I'll take from this thread, though, is that Sangho and CLIDE are class acts. | ||
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TheButtonmen
Canada1401 Posts
On July 22 2011 16:55 maybenexttime wrote: I am not so sure they offered him something better, though. They offered him a salary, a set contract and travel expenses to the major tournaments around the world. Compare that to TSL's offer of food, a bunk-bed and a few GSTL appearances a month. It seems like a pretty good offer. | ||
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Paradice
New Zealand431 Posts
there's another key, very interesting fact in the OP. Both SangHo and Clide "were approached similarly" by other teams. Now seeing as they weren't at NASL (and in fact I don't recall seeing them in any foreign tournaments), it's unlikely there were approaches by EG (in fact, almost certainly not, since I'm sure it would have been revealed today if this was the case). This means other teams are also approaching players directly. Regardless of whether you think this is outrageously apocalyptic or just business as usual, this means that what EG did is in no way an AG- or EG-specific issue, so mindlessly raging against them or their sponsors is retarded. In fact, since SangHo and Clide are contracted and salaried, it means EG is not even "the worst offender" at approaching players directly. Sorry to ruin a perfectly good scapegoat. | ||
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thanhbao86
Canada199 Posts
On July 22 2011 16:10 IslandLife wrote: So if Arsenal found a phenom 19 year old striker who was getting room and board from a team in the Woolwich & Eltham Sunday Football Alliance, and had NO contract they would talk to the coach and make sure it is okay for them to talk with the player?? Would that matter one whit?? Is anyone open to the idea that not having Puma on a contract was marginally exploitative?? You know in some countries it is illegal to have a contract before 18 right. So yah, it is not illegal but it is the wrong thing to do. For example, ManUtd and Arsenal have stolen players from Spain and Italy all the time in the past, Pique, Macheda and the Fabregas. Don't you think ManUtd and Arsenal should talk to Barca first before stealing their players. Those players Barca had trained them since they were 14 and when they are 17-18 Arsenal and ManUtd come in and take them. Same for this case, Puma was under a moral contract. The right thing to do is to respect that. Its not illegal what EG has done (everyone agrees on this) but it is not the right thing to do because you exploit the laws (soccer example) or the cultural concept (Puma example). So yah please stop with the no contract crap, everyone realizes that. But you cant take it out of the context of Korean SC2 environment. If you say about a case in NA, i have no problem. However, If you come to Korea and do business there (as EG plans to do), you got to respect their culture and the system they are running. Simple as that. You cant use your western culture mindset to apply there, its two different cultures. The fact that AG doing this only makes Korea SC2 more self-contained as they have to protect themselves from incidents like this happen again. AG on the other hand states that Korea should be more open about players transfer. They could be open if everyone approaches it on the respectful manner, but if you just come in and steal one of the best of their players and you expect them to be open. What kind of logic is that. EG did a bad move and instead of publicly admitting it they just give a general apologising and then blame other parties. If EG doesnot understand Korean culture and why Coach Lee upset, they should just not do business there. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38797 Posts
On July 22 2011 16:41 Nerdslayer wrote: A guy that feeds you and house you but dont pay you?? But you are expected to work for him and his sponsors.. hmm, this remind me of something, ohh yea the age of slaves!! Like said a million times. Puma was allowed to leave, even more Coach Lee let him go. Coach Lee could have played on Puma his honor and shamed him on staying, he probably didn't. Coach Lee is just upset with the complete lack of respect he got from EG. If EG would have contacted Coach Lee and TSL and asked if they could acquire Puma no drama would have occurred. EG would have had Puma. If EG would have contacted Coach Lee/TSL and promised some sort of minor compensation for training Puma for several months and making him the player he is, then EG would have been praised in Korea and by Coach Lee for their honor. And Puma wouldn't receive all this crap over him. EG did what EG does best. This is not the first time something very controversial happens and they are involved. But at least they made all the kids happy that think it is cool and though to be a shark businessman. Opinions that will probably be changed when they start paying taxes and get screwed by these businessman.  | ||
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Mazeltov
United States26 Posts
On July 22 2011 16:48 jmbthirteen wrote: And those guys were all paid very, very well by their teams. You think they didn't approach other teams or field offers when they could? If so, don't be so naive. Do you have information to the contrary? | ||
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thanhbao86
Canada199 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:00 Paradice wrote: Everyone shitting all over Alex Garfield and EG and how this is just unheard of in the Korean scene and blah blah blah... there's another key, very interesting fact in the OP. Both SangHo and Clide "were approached similarly" by other teams. Now seeing as they weren't at NASL (and in fact I don't recall seeing them in any foreign tournaments), it's unlikely there were approaches by EG (in fact, almost certainly not, since I'm sure it would have been revealed today if this was the case). This means other teams are also approaching players directly. Regardless of whether you think this is outrageously apocalyptic or just business as usual, this means that what EG did is in no way an AG- or EG-specific issue, so mindlessly raging against them or their sponsors is retarded. In fact, since SangHo and Clide are contracted and salaried, it means EG is not even "the worst offender" at approaching players directly. Sorry to ruin a perfectly good scapegoat. And what makes you think it is not EG, because coach Lee did not say its EG. Who else would reveal that kind of information i suppose if it is not coach Lee, Clide and SangHo. I am sorry but coach Lee is a bigger person that you. Enough said. I am pretty sure small minded person like you would have said EG name if it was EG. Btw, nice work on explaining stuff with your small mind. | ||
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Fighter
Korea (South)1531 Posts
On July 22 2011 16:55 maybenexttime wrote: I am not so sure they offered him something better, though. Without a good practice environment he will deteriorate skill-wise rather quickly. If he drops to the level of foreigners, he won't be a contender for major even in (large) foreign events (those have been dominated by players with Korean training). It's kinda like if an up and coming football player from Europe/South America went to some average MLS club because it paid better at the time. Sure, he'd earn more for a while but he'd have to consider that his early retirement, tbh. That's an interesting point, but it's largely irrelevant in the context of this discussion. EGs offer was "better" because it's the one Puma ultimately accepted. Puma never signed anything when he was in the United States, and TSL had a chance to make a counter offer when Puma told his coach what was distracting him. If they couldn't give Puma a stronger offer than EG, then that's that. The fact that they didn't is either indicative of the fact that they either couldn't or didn't want to. If the former, then that's unfortunate, but you have to keep your own best interest in mind. If the latter, then who can blame Puma for choosing to leave? Anyways, I find it amusing that there are people bashing EG over this. What were they supposed to do, call up TSLs coach and say, "hey, we want to take one of your players. That cool?" EG made Puma an offer, it was up to him whether he wanted to accept or decline. He accepted. Whether his former TSL teammates feel betrayed or not is on PUMAS head, not EGs. | ||
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acrequiem
United States15 Posts
On July 22 2011 14:34 JinDesu wrote: His er, dislike of FXO stems from the "lackluster results". Not the merging of FXO and Fou. he also said "blatant player poaching." i was just addressing this part. i dont really care for the result FXO brings, as everyone knows they did not go to Korea to win GSTL | ||
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hadang
Germany941 Posts
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VillageBC
322 Posts
Something is fishy in the TSL house. I've never seen a team lose so many players so quickly. Rain, FD, Trickster and now Puma all gone. This speaks more volumes to me about what is actually going on inside TSL then pretty words. | ||
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Paradice
New Zealand431 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:07 thanhbao86 wrote: And what makes you think it is not EG, because coach Lee did not say its EG. Who else would reveal that kind of information i suppose if it is not coach Lee, Clide and SangHo. I am sorry but coach Lee is a bigger person that you. Enough said. I am pretty sure small minded person like you would have said EG name if it was EG. Btw, nice work on explaining stuff with your small minded. Do you see the irony of personally attacking someone by calling them small minded because they don't agree with you? Yes, if it was EG who made the offers to the other two players, I think Coach Lee would have said so. It would have strengthened his case, and he hasn't held back about EG. If you think otherwise, say why, and please be civil. | ||
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SoJu.WeRRa
Korea (South)820 Posts
I hope TSL will do well soon and glad to see how Clide and SangHo acted. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On July 22 2011 13:08 Mioraka wrote: You have to understand, Clide is the man who picked Nestea instead of Huk in the group selection, just to avoid having Jinro and Huk on the same group. Then proceeds to crush the group 2-0. After that event I'm forever a Clide fan and supporter, not only because he's a good player, but also how fucking nice he is. Not to try to diminish your liking of Clide, but that's not true. He said it himself on the stage, he was going to pick Nestea all along, he was just joking around with the "soooo Jinro, Huk or Nestea?". | ||
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Anarith
United States61 Posts
On July 22 2011 17:13 VillageBC wrote: Oh poor Coach Lee, he wasn't consulted on acquiring a player he decided not to put under contract. Such a poor man Coach Lee is, such a terrible thing has befallen him. He's no saint here, he made a mistake. Then decided to throw Puma under a bus in Korea with his stupid statement playing the victim card to the big bad foreign teams. Something is fishy in the TSL house. I've never seen a team lose so many players so quickly. Rain, FD, Trickster and now Puma all gone. This speaks more volumes to me about what is actually going on inside TSL then pretty words. Did you even read the interview on why FD, Trickster, and Rain left? FruitDealer and Tester preferred the low pressure environment, whereas the other team members felt it was best to incorporate a more rigid practice regimen Rain’s dad lives in New York and his dream has always been to go abroad. It was only after he left the team that he signed with Fnatic, so what happened with Rain is different from Puma’s situation. Part of the reason why Rain left originated from some of the issues that arised once our team entered into a “rebuilding” mode | ||
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ProxiFruit
Australia27 Posts
On July 22 2011 12:41 Vinx wrote: I may be a just an asshole but when I got to this part "At first, we wanted him on a contract, and so did the other teammates. But we did not feel it was necessary at the time since everyone showed so much passion and commitment. I trusted him, but now I am regretting my decision [to put off the contract] a little bit." I just went... .r u kidding, its the 2011.... that whole part about honor and respect is kinda gone... i'm sad about it too but still know its a reality. Asian culture places alot of emphasis on respect and honor even in 2011. Interested to see how EG responds | ||
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ApBuLLet
United States604 Posts
On July 22 2011 12:49 StarStruck wrote: I'm not surprised by the conduct of other teams trying to recruit the Koreans. Looks like Puma wasn't even sure about his decision. It went against his own convictions as well. I know what you're saying, but I wouldn't go putting words in his mouth. I think he may have seemed indecisive about his decision based on Lee's story because he didn't want to cause any distractions for the team while GSTL was still going on. He knew his decision was bad news for TSL and that it would be personally upsetting to Lee and the rest of the team, so there is no sense in causing drama and distractions that would do nothing but hurt the team. I agree that I think he didn't like the way he and EG went about it, but with the situation with TSL and the opportunity he has in the foreign scene, I think he felt he deserved to go pursue something he thought would be better for him. | ||
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