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Sweden33691 Posts
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Q: What is this thread?
A: General purpose, SC2 discussion thread.
Q: What should I be posting about?
A: Basically, anything you want to talk about but aren't sure if it warrants a topic of its own. Heard a rumour you want to share? A new video? A question you are sure is super common but can't find the answer to via searching? A brilliant new idea that you want to vet, to make sure it's really as brilliant as you think it is?
This is the place.
Note:
Posting standards will not be as high as if you were to make a new thread, but pointless spam will still not be tolerated. I have seen threads like these work out alright on other sites (for other games) so I figured, why not give it a shot? It's possible there's not really enough content for something like this to exist at this point in time, but no harm then, it will just die on its own.
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Terrans dying hard . Sad to see as i watch sc2 to get entertained and play Protoss on ladder for fun.
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I've got a pretty interesting question. In the EXTREMELY recent series between NSHoSeoTassadar and MVPNoblesse, is the Storm-less HT into Archons a viable strategy? It seemed to work very well at drop-prevention, and the Feedback usage was very refreshing to watch, but it seems like it would be much more useful to spend the 200/200 on Storm, just because, if there isn't anything to Feedback, it's a wasted unit in that engagement.
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On July 04 2011 19:37 Rykros wrote:
Terrans dying hard . Sad to see as i watch sc2 to get entertained and play Protoss on ladder for fun.
I guess its just that we Terrans need new, unique, strategies. Sometimes I get bored of playing Terran because I feel limited to the builds I could use.
And on another note, it seems starcraft 2 is only fun to play with friends.
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On July 04 2011 19:37 Rykros wrote:
Terrans dying hard . Sad to see as i watch sc2 to get entertained and play Protoss on ladder for fun.
I really don't think it's as bad as you're seeing, otherwise Super Tournament wouldn't have had 6/8 Terran in the Ro8, and TvTvTvT in the Semi-finals.
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On July 04 2011 19:42 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I've got a pretty interesting question. In the EXTREMELY recent series between NSHoSeoTassadar and MVPNoblesse, is the Storm-less HT into Archons a viable strategy? It seemed to work very well at drop-prevention, and the Feedback usage was very refreshing to watch, but it seems like it would be much more useful to spend the 200/200 on Storm, just because, if there isn't anything to Feedback, it's a wasted unit in that engagement.
Name a common TvP Terran unit comp without a unit that uses energy. =P
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On July 04 2011 19:43 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:37 Rykros wrote:
Terrans dying hard . Sad to see as i watch sc2 to get entertained and play Protoss on ladder for fun. I really don't think it's as bad as you're seeing, otherwise Super Tournament wouldn't have had 6/8 Terran in the Ro8, and TvTvTvT in the Semi-finals.
The winner of super tournament PoltPrime lost yesterday to a Protoss in the finals of TL open who is not much known.
The runner up MMA lost in code A round 1 . I love watching Protoss winning so i can use new builds or strategies on ladder. But i watch sc2 mostly coz of hype and i want good games from each race . Its really entertaining.
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On July 04 2011 19:47 Rykros wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:43 VirgilSC2 wrote:On July 04 2011 19:37 Rykros wrote:
Terrans dying hard . Sad to see as i watch sc2 to get entertained and play Protoss on ladder for fun. I really don't think it's as bad as you're seeing, otherwise Super Tournament wouldn't have had 6/8 Terran in the Ro8, and TvTvTvT in the Semi-finals. The winner of super tournament PoltPrime lost yesterday to a Protoss in the finals of TL open who is not much known. The runner up MMA lost in code A round 1 . I love watching Protoss winning so i can use new builds or strategies on ladder. But i watch sc2 mostly coz of hype and i want good games from each race . Its really entertaining.
To be fair, we can't really judge MMA, because his road to the Super Tournament finals was ALL TvT. He was just a good TvT Player.
HwangSin is far from unknown, I believe he's on MVP and he's been in the finals or semi-finals of the last two TL Opens as well. That's like saying DRG is an unknown.
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On July 04 2011 19:46 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:42 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I've got a pretty interesting question. In the EXTREMELY recent series between NSHoSeoTassadar and MVPNoblesse, is the Storm-less HT into Archons a viable strategy? It seemed to work very well at drop-prevention, and the Feedback usage was very refreshing to watch, but it seems like it would be much more useful to spend the 200/200 on Storm, just because, if there isn't anything to Feedback, it's a wasted unit in that engagement. Name a common TvP Terran unit comp without a unit that uses energy. =P
I'm not necessarily saying there isn't a unit that doesn't USE Energy, but there are certainly times where Terran has Ghosts that get EMP off, and then backs off, and then the HTs would be misusing their abilities to Feedback them.
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On July 04 2011 19:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:47 Rykros wrote:On July 04 2011 19:43 VirgilSC2 wrote:On July 04 2011 19:37 Rykros wrote:
Terrans dying hard . Sad to see as i watch sc2 to get entertained and play Protoss on ladder for fun. I really don't think it's as bad as you're seeing, otherwise Super Tournament wouldn't have had 6/8 Terran in the Ro8, and TvTvTvT in the Semi-finals. The winner of super tournament PoltPrime lost yesterday to a Protoss in the finals of TL open who is not much known. The runner up MMA lost in code A round 1 . I love watching Protoss winning so i can use new builds or strategies on ladder. But i watch sc2 mostly coz of hype and i want good games from each race . Its really entertaining. To be fair, we can't really judge MMA, because his road to the Super Tournament finals was ALL TvT. He was just a good TvT Player. HwangSin is far from unknown, I believe he's on MVP and he's been in the finals or semi-finals of the last two TL Opens as well. That's like saying DRG is an unknown.
I just dont like watching Terrans relying on bunker rushing vs zerg in GSL and making bio with upgrades and head butting with Protoss with Protoss coming ahead.
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On July 04 2011 19:37 Rykros wrote:
Terrans dying hard . Sad to see as i watch sc2 to get entertained and play Protoss on ladder for fun.
Korea exclusive comment.
Game has shifted so much since release. 1 gate/rax builds are extremely common, makes me smile very much.
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On July 04 2011 19:52 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:46 aksfjh wrote:On July 04 2011 19:42 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I've got a pretty interesting question. In the EXTREMELY recent series between NSHoSeoTassadar and MVPNoblesse, is the Storm-less HT into Archons a viable strategy? It seemed to work very well at drop-prevention, and the Feedback usage was very refreshing to watch, but it seems like it would be much more useful to spend the 200/200 on Storm, just because, if there isn't anything to Feedback, it's a wasted unit in that engagement. Name a common TvP Terran unit comp without a unit that uses energy. =P I'm not necessarily saying there isn't a unit that doesn't USE Energy, but there are certainly times where Terran has Ghosts that get EMP off, and then backs off, and then the HTs would be misusing their abilities to Feedback them.
A dead/energyless ghost is one that can't EMP. Also, a templar with 150+ energy can still feedback after an EMP, while it takes 175+ energy to storm. Regardless, this is a build that definitely deserves some attention and an analytical look.
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On July 04 2011 19:56 Rykros wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:50 VirgilSC2 wrote:On July 04 2011 19:47 Rykros wrote:On July 04 2011 19:43 VirgilSC2 wrote:On July 04 2011 19:37 Rykros wrote:
Terrans dying hard . Sad to see as i watch sc2 to get entertained and play Protoss on ladder for fun. I really don't think it's as bad as you're seeing, otherwise Super Tournament wouldn't have had 6/8 Terran in the Ro8, and TvTvTvT in the Semi-finals. The winner of super tournament PoltPrime lost yesterday to a Protoss in the finals of TL open who is not much known. The runner up MMA lost in code A round 1 . I love watching Protoss winning so i can use new builds or strategies on ladder. But i watch sc2 mostly coz of hype and i want good games from each race . Its really entertaining. To be fair, we can't really judge MMA, because his road to the Super Tournament finals was ALL TvT. He was just a good TvT Player. HwangSin is far from unknown, I believe he's on MVP and he's been in the finals or semi-finals of the last two TL Opens as well. That's like saying DRG is an unknown. I just dont like watching Terrans relying on bunker rushing vs zerg in GSL and making bio with upgrades and head butting with Protoss with Protoss coming ahead.
This could just be me as a Protoss player, but I think more Terrans need to do quite a few things to get out of the bio-rut.
1) Get earlier Ghosts against Protoss.
There are so many Terrans who wait until mid to late game to throw down a Ghost academy against Protoss, when EMPs are so good earlygame.
2) Ravens in TvZ
No, I'm not QXC and I don't advise painting your Ravens like Mutalisk for Seeker Missiles. However, with more and more Zergs using burrowed banelings, the detection from Ravens would be much more economical after the second scan goes down looking for baneling mines.
However, this COULD result in people using the "QXC MutaQueen Impostor Kamakazi Raven" so I would really like to watch that unfold.
3) Hellions in TvP
Sounds stupid, but now that Zealot Archon is getting more and more popular, Hellions are much more valuable against Protoss that tend to play that tech path.
Just my two cents.
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On July 04 2011 19:58 FataLe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:37 Rykros wrote:
Terrans dying hard . Sad to see as i watch sc2 to get entertained and play Protoss on ladder for fun. Korea exclusive comment. Game has shifted so much since release. 1 gate/rax builds are extremely common, makes me smile very much.
Yeah game has shifted so much . Protoss players with so many diverse unit compositions.
Zergs going different styles . Muta ling bling to Ling infestar to infestar broodlord. Ultralisks and stuff..
Terran still that marine siege tank vs zerg mostly
Tvp= Units from barracks.
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On July 04 2011 20:04 aksfjh wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:52 VirgilSC2 wrote:On July 04 2011 19:46 aksfjh wrote:On July 04 2011 19:42 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I've got a pretty interesting question. In the EXTREMELY recent series between NSHoSeoTassadar and MVPNoblesse, is the Storm-less HT into Archons a viable strategy? It seemed to work very well at drop-prevention, and the Feedback usage was very refreshing to watch, but it seems like it would be much more useful to spend the 200/200 on Storm, just because, if there isn't anything to Feedback, it's a wasted unit in that engagement. Name a common TvP Terran unit comp without a unit that uses energy. =P I'm not necessarily saying there isn't a unit that doesn't USE Energy, but there are certainly times where Terran has Ghosts that get EMP off, and then backs off, and then the HTs would be misusing their abilities to Feedback them. A dead/energyless ghost is one that can't EMP. Also, a templar with 150+ energy can still feedback after an EMP, while it takes 175+ energy to storm. Regardless, this is a build that definitely deserves some attention and an analytical look.
I'm not saying it's not a viable build, and that Feedback doesn't have an innumerable amount of uses, but the question is, is that 200/200 so desperately needed somewhere else that you don't research Storm on a building that won't ever be researching something more important, in the event that Storm WOULD be useful.
Simply because Storm with Zealot Archon is such a beautiful thing. You storm the back edge of the Terran ball, so they're forced to either walk into the Storm, or fight the Zealots without kiting.
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On July 04 2011 19:42 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I've got a pretty interesting question. In the EXTREMELY recent series between NSHoSeoTassadar and MVPNoblesse, is the Storm-less HT into Archons a viable strategy? It seemed to work very well at drop-prevention, and the Feedback usage was very refreshing to watch, but it seems like it would be much more useful to spend the 200/200 on Storm, just because, if there isn't anything to Feedback, it's a wasted unit in that engagement.
Yeah I agree. If you build so many HTs there is no reason to NOT invest 200/200. Even IF you are using mainly Feedback, Storm is sick good so if you have a surplus of energy you can still use Storm. Weird decision imo.
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On July 04 2011 20:09 dani` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 19:42 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I've got a pretty interesting question. In the EXTREMELY recent series between NSHoSeoTassadar and MVPNoblesse, is the Storm-less HT into Archons a viable strategy? It seemed to work very well at drop-prevention, and the Feedback usage was very refreshing to watch, but it seems like it would be much more useful to spend the 200/200 on Storm, just because, if there isn't anything to Feedback, it's a wasted unit in that engagement. Yeah I agree. If you build so many HTs there is no reason to NOT invest 200/200. Even IF you are using mainly Feedback, Storm is sick good so if you have a surplus of energy you can still use Storm. Weird decision imo.
I'd have to assume that when he was developing the build and practicing it, the 200/200 is supposed to go towards collosus tech. As his pressure from the archons and gateway units keeps terran on 2 base, terran is locked into a ghost/bio tech with not enough resource to add on vikings. But during the match he floated minerals and storm would seem to be a viable option though it was not part of the original plan.
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Doesn't storm also have a "habit" of clipping your own chargelots while T kites? Like I said, we probably need to analyze the game and style more before we deem storm worth the cost. It IS 200/200 after all.
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On July 04 2011 20:16 yawn wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2011 20:09 dani` wrote:On July 04 2011 19:42 VirgilSC2 wrote:
I've got a pretty interesting question. In the EXTREMELY recent series between NSHoSeoTassadar and MVPNoblesse, is the Storm-less HT into Archons a viable strategy? It seemed to work very well at drop-prevention, and the Feedback usage was very refreshing to watch, but it seems like it would be much more useful to spend the 200/200 on Storm, just because, if there isn't anything to Feedback, it's a wasted unit in that engagement. Yeah I agree. If you build so many HTs there is no reason to NOT invest 200/200. Even IF you are using mainly Feedback, Storm is sick good so if you have a surplus of energy you can still use Storm. Weird decision imo. I'd have to assume that when he was developing the build and practicing it, the 200/200 is supposed to go towards collosus tech. As his pressure from the archons and gateway units keeps terran on 2 base, terran is locked into a ghost/bio tech with not enough resource to add on vikings. But during the match he floated minerals and storm would seem to be a viable option though it was not part of the original plan.
If that was the case, I really think that's a map specific thing, relying on how many bases you can easily defend. On Terminus, or Crevasse even, while containing the Terran, you can grab 3, or maybe even 4 bases, and the 200/200 you're trying to use toward Colossus is so easy to get, it's really easy to squeeze Storm into the build. Now if they were playing on....say Xel'Naga Caverns, I would see the skipping of Storm to get Colossus tech to be much more sensible.
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On July 04 2011 20:19 aksfjh wrote:
Doesn't storm also have a "habit" of clipping your own chargelots while T kites? Like I said, we probably need to analyze the game and style more before we deem storm worth the cost. It IS 200/200 after all.
Well, the idea I was toying with, looking at the build, was dropping storms on the back edge of the Terran ball, for two reasons.
1) Softens up the back for when your Zealots finally get to them.
2) Forces the Terran to make the choice between kiting back THROUGH the Storm, at which point, you back off, and he can't heal up because you've Feedback'd his Medivacs, or stand and fight the Zealots head on.
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