It's been a few weeks in the making, but at long last we're proud to announce the very first Map of the Month: ProAm Challenge! (with prizes!) This special competition will be replacing MotM: June and MotM: July and will be very different compared to your normal MotM. As the name suggests, selected amateur map makers will pair with professional map makers to produce a map and compete for $150.
Being an online community, ProAm tournaments are not exactly straight forward. So how is it all going to work?
Amateur map makers will produce and submit up to three maps by the 13th of July
Invited professional map makers will look over all the submissions and choose a map that they like by the 16th of July. People who are not selected will be informed at this time. Relevant contact information will be exchanged by MotM.
The pros will then work with the amateurs, in pairs, to refine the map and bring it up to tournament standard
The finalised map will be submitted by the 31st of July and judging will take place over the following week
The winning team will receive $50 each, and the runners up will receive $25 each via paypal
Part of the judging criteria will be a comparison of the map when first submitted and the final version of the map. In particular, how features of the original map are preserved or enhanced in the final version. Complete reworks will not score highly, even if it is the best map ever.
So who is eligible to compete? Anyone who has not placed in a Map of the Month tournament, TLMC, IPL Map tournament or has had their maps played in the GSL. Specifically, the following people are not considered amateur for the purposes of this tournament: + Show Spoiler +
If your name is NOT on this list then you are eligible to submit!
At this stage, there are seven confirmed pro mappers. A complete announcement of which pro mappers have been invited and who will be judging this contest will be made in two weeks.
Please send your map files to submit.motm[at]gmail.com (include your user name in subject) and post your overviews with any additional information in this thread. Follow this format while posting in this thread to ensure your entry is accepted:
Map Name Map Author Map Overview Playable Map Bounds
Please also provide a way we can contact you in the email you send to us. We will not use this contact information for anything other than the contest.
The closing time for submissions will be July, 13th.
On June 22 2012 14:38 iGrok wrote: So Plexa, how will the Pros and Ams get matched together? What if two Pros like the same amateur?
Once all the pros are finalised they will be numbered alphabetically from 1 to n. I will use the computer algebra system GAP to generate a random permutation of S_n (the symmetric group of n elements) to create a random ordering. Should conflicts arise, that ordering will determine who has priority.
On June 22 2012 14:38 iGrok wrote: So Plexa, how will the Pros and Ams get matched together? What if two Pros like the same amateur?
Once all the pros are finalised they will be numbered alphabetically from 1 to n. I will use the computer algebra system GAP to generate a random permutation of S_n (the symmetric group of n elements) to create a random ordering. Should conflicts arise, that ordering will determine who has priority.
On June 22 2012 17:24 Aunvilgod wrote: July 13th? FOR 3 MAPS? ARE YOU CRAZY?
You dont have to make 3, you can make one or two. Fast mappers make 3, but those might be less polished and balanced as your single map that you put all your attention to.
Personally, I will probably do 2 if I can find the time. 1 polished map that is 'good' in my opinion, 1 map that is something abit more weird
On June 22 2012 14:38 iGrok wrote: So Plexa, how will the Pros and Ams get matched together? What if two Pros like the same amateur?
Once all the pros are finalised they will be numbered alphabetically from 1 to n. I will use the computer algebra system GAP to generate a random permutation of S_n (the symmetric group of n elements) to create a random ordering. Should conflicts arise, that ordering will determine who has priority.
Should just be a draft order!
Or whoever uses the least amount of protoss decals in their maps on average gets first pick.
This is a great competition and I'm certainly looking forward to see what maps we will get from it
I wanna say that I hope every amateur who submits is really willing to communicate a lot and invest time, since as I see it this is about learning and improving overall quality.
I thought this was a contest to match players with amateur mappers, since Morrow is in the list. After Iromansc's post saying there should be relationships between players, spectators, organizers, casters and the mapping community I thought this would have been a good idea. Making a distinction between pro mappers and amateurs mappers sounds awkward in my opinion, at least with such a long list. I don't think it's a good way to tie a community by discriminating its members, especially in such an elitist way. Calling 38 people "pros" and the rest "amateur". So basically if you enter the contest you're bad but it's ok since a pro will help you become a pro. It sounds more like a fraternity picking its new member.
What sounds wierd in this contest is you say you'll judge a map looking at before and after, and the winning map shouldn't be reworked too much after being reviewed. But at the same time you split the money even between the pro and amateur. So basically the perfect map would be so good right from the start that the pro would recieve money to do nothing.
On June 22 2012 20:26 chuky500 wrote:What sounds wierd in this contest is you say you'll judge a map looking at before and after, and the winning map shouldn't be reworked too much after being reviewed. But at the same time you split the money even between the pro and amateur. So basically the perfect map would be so good right from the start that the pro would recieve money to do nothing.
This confuses me a bit as well. As I am not on the Pro list I don´t care myself but basically every "Pro" will win or based on luck. If you are lucky you get an amateur that is good at mapping and you won´t have to change much. But if you are not lucky you get someone completely new to mapping and maybe have no chance to win unless you pretty much rework the map from the ground - up. Let´s just say an amateur submits 3 maps with 256x256 playable bounds. The Pro would be f****d.
On June 22 2012 20:26 chuky500 wrote: I thought this was a contest to match players with amateur mappers, since Morrow is in the list.
It clearly says that people who have placed in a motm contest or equivalent. Morrow happens to be a competent mapper and wound up on the list.
After Iromansc's post saying there should be relationships between players, spectators, organizers, casters and the mapping community I thought this would have been a good idea. Making a distinction between pro mappers and amateurs mappers sounds awkward in my opinion, at least with such a long list. I don't think it's a good way to tie a community by discriminating its members, especially in such an elitist way. Calling 38 people "pros" and the rest "amateur". So basically if you enter the contest you're bad but it's ok since a pro will help you become a pro. It sounds more like a fraternity picking its new member imo.
Not all of the 38 people on the list will be choosing maps. The post never called those 38 people pros, simply ineligible to participate. We want to encourage people who have never won a motm before to participate with hopes that they will learn something from the process as well. I don't know why you're trying to make an issue out of this.
What sounds wierd in this contest is you say you'll judge a map looking at before and after, and the winning map shouldn't be reworked too much after being reviewed. But at the same time you split the money even between the pro and amateur. So basically the perfect map would be so good right from the start that the pro would recieve money to do nothing.
We don't expect any submission to be perfect, indeed even at the highest level maps aren't perfect. This isn't an issue.
On June 22 2012 20:26 chuky500 wrote:What sounds wierd in this contest is you say you'll judge a map looking at before and after, and the winning map shouldn't be reworked too much after being reviewed. But at the same time you split the money even between the pro and amateur. So basically the perfect map would be so good right from the start that the pro would recieve money to do nothing.
This confuses me a bit as well. As I am not on the Pro list I don´t care myself but basically every "Pro" will win or based on luck. If you are lucky you get an amateur that is good at mapping and you won´t have to change much. But if you are not lucky you get someone completely new to mapping and maybe have no chance to win unless you pretty much rework the map from the ground - up. Let´s just say an amateur submits 3 maps with 256x256 playable bounds. The Pro would be f****d.
By complete rework I mean someone submitting steppes of war and the pro making ohana - there's just no relation between the maps. However a change like this; From to would be fine. The concept of the map is still preserved but the second version is significantly better. I know this is an SC1 example, but hopefully you can see that there is a drastic change between the two maps.
I admit that the statement in the OP isn't 100% clear, but that is because it was never meant to be a comprehensive guideline. Just that there will be some consideration given to the difference between the before and after versions. It isn't something that you need to worry about anyway the invited mappers will be well aware of what we expect.
I get it about the map being corrected but the problem is the pro will get the amateur's money ! And this is even truer if the map has quality in the first place, so pro mappers will be able to tell. To sum up you're giving away money for a betting competition. As you said even the highest level maps aren't perfect so you could have a contest the other way around : a noname would pick a pro's map, give him some advice and earn as much money as the pro for the map the pro made.
If you want to be fair give all the money to the amateur since it's his own work and the pro is a pro so he doesn't need the money anyways.
The amateur makes the first draft, together they make the map complete. Feedback is atleast 50% of the map.
If making a map was just making a map, there wouldnt be mappingcommunitys, mappingteams or these contests. I would pay professional mappers and gamers to help me on my maps tbh, since their imput makes the maps as good as they can be.
The 50/50 is fine , im sure if a pro thinks the amateur deserves all the money they are mature enough to work that out between themselves.
Also, as there seem to be some discussion about the money split, I just wanted to share my opinion. The time an amateur put into the map will most likely be higher than the pro, but the work the pro puts into tweaking the map is most likely also what gives the quality a kick.
On June 22 2012 23:17 Sea_Food wrote: What if 3 pros all want 1 of maps i submited?
Good question. Once one of your maps is chosen then your other two maps can no longer be selected. This is to maximise the number of people who get feedback.
What? No front page headline? C'mon Plexa, help build some hype for the map making community! This may not be as big as getting your map on the ladder or into a tournament, but it is for real prizes. Is this not an unprecedented occurrence? I think the map making community needs more support than just FlashFTW, Chargelot, and ihasaKAROT. The people need to be informed! Spotlight please!
On June 22 2012 23:47 HypertonicHydroponic wrote: What? No front page headline? C'mon Plexa, help build some hype for the map making community! This may not be as big as getting your map on the ladder or into a tournament, but it is for real prizes. Is this not an unprecedented occurrence? I think the map making community needs more support than just FlashFTW, Chargelot, and ihasaKAROT. The people need to be informed! Spotlight please!
I feel honored that you mentioned me xD Gave me a chill down my spine. Tbh, I look at maps because I love it. The skills that people have to offer are amazing. And being a mapmaker myself (thought i dont post any of my work because im took lazy to turn my graph paper into a real map), I enjoy seeing what others bring to the table.
Who knows? I might start a map. Never tried yet lol, but I think I might surprise myself. GL HF to those participating!!!
On June 22 2012 22:17 chuky500 wrote: I get it about the map being corrected but the problem is the pro will get the amateur's money ! And this is even truer if the map has quality in the first place, so pro mappers will be able to tell. To sum up you're giving away money for a betting competition. As you said even the highest level maps aren't perfect so you could have a contest the other way around : a noname would pick a pro's map, give him some advice and earn as much money as the pro for the map the pro made.
If you want to be fair give all the money to the amateur since it's his own work and the pro is a pro so he doesn't need the money anyways.
First of all, I can assure you the pros will do a lot of work- there isn't going to be any amateur map that doesn't need a ton of changes. I know this because there isn't a single "pro" map that doesn't need a ton of changes. And, if you're curious, your map is no exception.
Second, no, it wouldn't be fair to give all the money to the amateur. Nobody in the world makes money making maps right now. So "pros" need it just as much as the amateurs. Also if there's no money in it for the "pro" mapmakers, then it would hard to get them to participate- there is a lot of work involved, I can assure you.
On June 22 2012 23:11 chuky500 wrote: The way winners will be judged incitate pros to pick the maps that are already good, not drafts of half complete maps.
I think I would definitely pick an uncomplete map that could be way better rather an a finished one.
Im wondering if submited maps, will be evaluated solemly from overview, or if they are tested in game, and / or if played?
Will there be any Email response to if you are, or are not selected. And will you be able to see any evaluation summary? since that information could be useful even though you did not get in the top few.
On June 23 2012 01:54 Broodie wrote: Quick question: are you allowed to turn down a pro in favour of another one?
Why would you turn down a pro to begin with? unless you have personal feud with the pro, there should be no reason why you wouldn't want him. They are all entirely qualified with their expertise and I have full trust in all of them to instruct and help you in every way possible.
On June 23 2012 01:49 Guardian85 wrote: Sounds like a very interesting competition.
Im wondering if submited maps, will be evaluated solemly from overview, or if they are tested in game, and / or if played?
I would wager that pros will choose maps based on the overview, although if they want to see maps in more detail that can be arranged (also means its a good idea to upload your map).
Will there be any Email response to if you are, or are not selected. And will you be able to see any evaluation summary? since that information could be useful even though you did not get in the top few.
Cheers G.
Responses will be either PMd or emailed, haven't decided that yet. But yes, everyone will get a response. There may or may not be an evaluation summary the finalists, but there definitely won't be for the maps which are not selected by the pros.
On June 23 2012 01:54 Broodie wrote: Quick question: are you allowed to turn down a pro in favour of another one?
I suppose that if there are certain people you dont want to work with you can specify that in the email (pro list comes out in 2 weeks). Other than that, it will be the pros who make the selections, not the other way around.
On June 23 2012 02:33 Guardian85 wrote: How many maps can be picked per mapper? If you contribute 3 maps, can all 3 be chosen or can only the "best" out of 3?
You can submit up to three maps, but only 1 will be worked on with a pro. The Am/Pros work in pairs- the 3 maps is just to allow more choices from the pros, and to give the people submitting more flexibility and potential for being chosen.
On June 23 2012 02:33 Guardian85 wrote: How many maps can be picked per mapper? If you contribute 3 maps, can all 3 be chosen or can only the "best" out of 3?
You can submit up to three maps, but only 1 will be worked on with a pro. The Am/Pros work in pairs- the 3 maps is just to allow more choices from the pros, and to give the people submitting more flexibility and potential for being chosen.
^this. also if a person has maybe 2 really good maps, the pro can choose one that might go to his strength.
This is exactly what the mapping community needs. Allows for newer mappers to get substantial feedback and improve and also to better understand the process of map-making while also reinvigorating the pros so that they can use a lot of the more interesting concepts which they might not be coming up with.
On June 23 2012 03:33 Yonnua wrote: This is exactly what the mapping community needs. Allows for newer mappers to get substantial feedback and improve and also to better understand the process of map-making while also reinvigorating the pros so that they can use a lot of the more interesting concepts which they might not be coming up with.
I feel that the mapping community has already given a ton of feedback to the newer mappers when they post their maps. i know i for one try to always give people some feedback on their maps. this is just something to make them stretch their limits and go big on their maps.
On June 23 2012 03:33 Yonnua wrote: This is exactly what the mapping community needs. Allows for newer mappers to get substantial feedback and improve and also to better understand the process of map-making while also reinvigorating the pros so that they can use a lot of the more interesting concepts which they might not be coming up with.
I feel that the mapping community has already given a ton of feedback to the newer mappers when they post their maps. i know i for one try to always give people some feedback on their maps. this is just something to make them stretch their limits and go big on their maps.
I agree. This is more to take the set of map-makers that is right below the "top level" and bring them on up. It's a good idea.
On June 23 2012 03:33 Yonnua wrote: This is exactly what the mapping community needs. Allows for newer mappers to get substantial feedback and improve and also to better understand the process of map-making while also reinvigorating the pros so that they can use a lot of the more interesting concepts which they might not be coming up with.
I feel that the mapping community has already given a ton of feedback to the newer mappers when they post their maps. i know i for one try to always give people some feedback on their maps. this is just something to make them stretch their limits and go big on their maps.
You're not everyone lol.
Also, what i'm dreaming of is a nomination ceremony like in gsl. Would be so awesome <3 but since i'm ineligible to participate, if i'm not invited, that means i can't do anything right ? D:
On June 23 2012 03:33 Yonnua wrote: This is exactly what the mapping community needs. Allows for newer mappers to get substantial feedback and improve and also to better understand the process of map-making while also reinvigorating the pros so that they can use a lot of the more interesting concepts which they might not be coming up with.
I feel that the mapping community has already given a ton of feedback to the newer mappers when they post their maps. i know i for one try to always give people some feedback on their maps. this is just something to make them stretch their limits and go big on their maps.
You're not everyone lol.
Also, what i'm dreaming of is a nomination ceremony like in gsl. Would be so awesome <3 but since i'm ineligible to participate, if i'm not invited, that means i can't do anything right ? D:
Oh and gogogo tl frontpage too
wat do you mean im not everyone? a lot of people give feedback besides myself. they might not do it on every single map, but there's a lot of good feedback in the community as a whole.
Btw this may be obvious but if you're an amateur you should really focus a lot on the overall idea and layout of the map more than detailed execution or aesthetics for maps you submit. Aesthetics and those details in balance can always be fixed, but if the map is just plain boring or a really bad idea that's a lot harder to work with.
And even if you're rly good at aesthetics, you better use that on ethe collaborated map, than waste it on a map that might not be used, or changed much. I just imagined a nice scenario - an 'amateur' submits a map that gets chosen by one 'pro' and the pro decides to not want to change anything - maybe just work on aesthetics and move a doodad from original concept. Can the map still win, given that it would be good enough to win?
It should be a legal move by the pro, because why fix something that doesn't have to be fixed? There shoudln't be a rule in this contest or any other that says that it has to be changed just for the sake of changing.
Working on the textures of my first production. Figure I'll end up submitting it here, though I started on it a while before I read this. Here is a small preview
On June 24 2012 00:17 Ragoo wrote: Btw this may be obvious but if you're an amateur you should really focus a lot on the overall idea and layout of the map more than detailed execution or aesthetics for maps you submit. Aesthetics and those details in balance can always be fixed, but if the map is just plain boring or a really bad idea that's a lot harder to work with.
Completely agree. A map is terrible if it has no sense of balance or layout. aesthetics can easily be fixed.
On June 22 2012 22:17 chuky500 wrote: I get it about the map being corrected but the problem is the pro will get the amateur's money ! And this is even truer if the map has quality in the first place, so pro mappers will be able to tell. To sum up you're giving away money for a betting competition. As you said even the highest level maps aren't perfect so you could have a contest the other way around : a noname would pick a pro's map, give him some advice and earn as much money as the pro for the map the pro made.
If you want to be fair give all the money to the amateur since it's his own work and the pro is a pro so he doesn't need the money anyways.
Yeah because mappers be rolling in bitches and dollars!
On June 22 2012 22:17 chuky500 wrote: I get it about the map being corrected but the problem is the pro will get the amateur's money ! And this is even truer if the map has quality in the first place, so pro mappers will be able to tell. To sum up you're giving away money for a betting competition. As you said even the highest level maps aren't perfect so you could have a contest the other way around : a noname would pick a pro's map, give him some advice and earn as much money as the pro for the map the pro made.
If you want to be fair give all the money to the amateur since it's his own work and the pro is a pro so he doesn't need the money anyways.
Can I be bluntly honest with you? We make a whopping $0
I really like this initiative and idea, even though I feel like the name is slightly off, as well as that the pro-list is very long. Once is nonce, two times is two too many, and three times is tradition. hmm, It doesn't translate too well but I hope you get the gist.
Regardless, I will try to submit a couple of maps with what I think are decent concepts. Unless I continue to play D3 too much heh.
On June 24 2012 20:06 Kbafewx wrote: Ragoo, how do you become a "map maker"
Well become a world class mapmaker is a hard task to achieve so I will give you some guidance.
Step 1 Make sure you are a big SC2 fan but you prefer SC:BW because everything Blizzard does nowadays is utter shit. You need to hate Blizzard with all your heart and constantly remind everyone around you how much better SC2 could be if they weren't such sellouts and suck Activisions cock. Also you need to flame every tournament in its thread if their map pool has more than 2 Blizzard maps, you need to bitch every time Blizzard releases new maps for ladder and you need to whine in random Bnet channels about how Daybreak's half base was so much better.
Step 2 : Make sure you have no self respect whatsoever. As a melee mapmaker you are the lowest tier of idiots that are related to SC2 and you are reminded of that constantly. Don't expect to ever get any kind of recognition outside of the 50 people who come to the TL mapmaking forum and don't expect anyone to ever know your name, even in the very unlikely case that your map gets added to ladder. Hell, I hear people misspell ESV half the time and they are the best mapmaking team! Also don't expect Blizzard to ever do something for you, they'd rather see their own atrocious shitmaps in ladder than supporting the community to do maps properly.+ Show Spoiler +
In case I get hate cos Blizzard kinda supported us with TLMC. Bah, that's not recognizing how important mapmaking is for the game and how much they themselves suck at it. That's merely responding to a lot of community complaints. Enjoy your Blizzard maps in HotS!
Step 3 Be sure not to have a real life cause everyone who has something worthy to do in life wouldn't choose to waste his time with SC2 mapmaking, cos the maps simply don't get anywhere.
Step 4 You need to watch SC2 a lot and you need to think about it a lot. You don't necessarily need to play a lot. It would help but you need to understand the bigger picture and you can get that from watching and thinking about the design of SC2. You need to understand the basic standards of SC2 maps. That means 8m2g mains, the main needs to have a certain size so you can build production, there needs to be some kind of easily to get and defend natural, the map should at least have 10 bases and so on. Just look at many maps both by Blizzard and from the mapmaking teams here and you will understand what all the maps have in common. You need to have good ideas and good ideas can't always be forced. If you want to start a new map you either have a general idea for a certain playstyle you want to promote or a certain element of the game you want to highlight (like air harrass). Or you can think about some cool way to do say the first 3 bases and then you make a map around that. Once youre finished with layout and made sure it's playable, make a map thread here and get feedback and adjust according to it. You don't need to take every bit of feedback seriously. In fact most of the feedback is total bullshit. But read everything and think about it. Some people will always have something valueable to say, those are mostly the mapmakers from ESV and TPW, but also some other guys. You will know who knows his shit after a while. If you do aesthetics take your fucking time. So many maps that are "finished" that I see posted here have shit aesthetics not because people are too dumb to do it but because they invest like no time at all to do it. If you really want to get some serious mapmaking done you need to find some way to communicate regularly with other mapmakers in chat and exchange feedback and thoughts. That either means meeting them in something like the Skype channel for mapmakers or you join a team.
Step 5 Pray every goddamn night for a new TLMC, cos it's the only way our maps will ever get anywhere in this bullshit community.
Wow Ragoo, thought you were trolling at the start, but are you OK dude? you sound super mad, frustrated and depressed :S map making is cool, and even though most of the maps wont get played by people that are not your friends it is still fun to make them. Think of map making as an art that doesn't last, like sand art, or ice / snow sculpting, its really fun to do and you give from your self alot, but it doesn't last and unless your lucky or the top artist most people wont see your creation before it gets destroyed / melts / lost.
By the way, aesthetics do take along time to make, and some people don't have that time, so they make the map look decent, but they skip the minor things, since it takes to much time to be worth it (most people don't care about how the map looks when they play it, unless it looks too horrible to play on).
I am guessing you are both trolling and talking serious at the same time, which is kinda confusing, but anyways I am sure some of step 4 would help new map makers
while I agree with some of what you said; I think Moskonia's optimistic approach should be the way to actually answer...
I've been mapping in various communities for various games for years and was disappointed to not read the words Kbafewx needed to hear most: Love of the game and enjoyment of the practices.
Mapping is no less an art than anything else. recognition is amazing but just like all art it is very hard to obtain, the only way to advance is to persevere.
Some views in your post did make sense but all in all, cheer up
"I find your lack of faith disturbing"
----------------------
and no guardian, after the deadline what you submit is final
It's an art to some but for me it is a lot more practical.
For me this whole thing is about making both playing and watching the game more enjoyable. So the only thing I REALLY care about is the quality of the maps that get into tournaments and ladder. How it happens I don't mind, if it's Kespa monopoly again in SC2 I don't care, as long as they make the absolute best maps for me to enjoy watching SC2.
I'm only in this because I want to make a contribution and help as long as we didn't reach a healthy map rotation and certain quality standard for map, similar to what BW had.
Maybe if you consider this, you understand why I am so frustrated with SC2 mapmaking and maps.
On June 24 2012 22:08 Guardian85 wrote: Uhm, If a map maker has submited 3 maps, before deadline, and realizes he wants to replace on of the 3, is that possible? And if so, how to do it?
Just indicate which map is being replaced in an email with your new submissions.
No I get you ragoo, I feel the exact same way, but it's good to keep the ties with your art side.
I think this Proam thing is a great way for people with your outlook to ensure people with an only art outlook get pushed into the next stage, which takes a lot of personal devotion tbh.
I've made well over 50 maps by now and most of them are almost entirely shitty, but that first phase is passed now I believe, takes dedication and "love" of what I do to continue, and yes I also want the same things you do, with slightly personal goals involved...
anyways, back to Proam.
I've got a nice style of map we've not seen much of in the past that I hope will catch, Im currently in the process of grinding out specific details on the layout before I do anything else.
I think NewSunshine has a pretty solid submission too.
On June 25 2012 01:21 Broodie wrote: No I get you ragoo, I feel the exact same way, but it's good to keep the ties with your art side.
I think this Proam thing is a great way for people with your outlook to ensure people with an only art outlook get pushed into the next stage, which takes a lot of personal devotion tbh.
I've made well over 50 maps by now and most of them are almost entirely shitty, but that first phase is passed now I believe, takes dedication and "love" of what I do to continue, and yes I also want the same things you do, with slightly personal goals involved...
anyways, back to Proam.
I've got a nice style of map we've not seen much of in the past that I hope will catch, Im currently in the process of grinding out specific details on the layout before I do anything else.
I think NewSunshine has a pretty solid submission too.
Glhf
Pssst. They're not supposed to know that! :p
But yeah, Raggin' out I think would describe it. I can understand the frustration Ragoo, but I think yours is a slightly wrong mindset. Mapmaking is supposed to be fun, that's why most of us do it. A team like ESV might do all they can to push the quality and publicity for their maps, but I'd still wager they have fun with it. Cherno looked like it was a lot of fun to make, personally, just as an example. And as for the rest of us, we make maps for fun. The thing to realize is that, at this stage, it's very unlikely that anything a mapmaker makes is going to go anywhere major, like the ladder, so it's best to either abandon those hopes, or just quit. Funcmode, for example, quit out of frustration. At one point, if you expect too much out of your maps, it becomes not worth it.
On June 25 2012 04:50 EatThePath wrote: This is cool, looking forward to what comes of it!
But I find it sad that anyone is willing to call themselves a "pro" mapmaker.
wut? like who? im curious.
keep the maps rolling in guys. looks good so far!
The pro is just for lack of a better word. Its a common thing to do "ProAm" style events, so we applied it to mapmaking. Sure, there are no pros in mapmaking (except some BW KeSPA mapmakers transitioning to sc2), but the mapmakers on ESV/TPW and those who have won motm are the closest we've got.
On June 25 2012 04:50 EatThePath wrote: This is cool, looking forward to what comes of it!
But I find it sad that anyone is willing to call themselves a "pro" mapmaker.
wut? like who? im curious.
keep the maps rolling in guys. looks good so far!
The pro is just for lack of a better word. Its a common thing to do "ProAm" style events, so we applied it to mapmaking. Sure, there are no pros in mapmaking (except some BW KeSPA mapmakers transitioning to sc2), but the mapmakers on ESV/TPW and those who have won motm are the closest we've got.
Yeah, I understand. I know you guys only have the best intentions. It just left a bad taste. glhf everyone =]
Regarding to your rules a big part of the judgement is not how good the product is but how the differences between old and final version are. Don't you think this gives amateurs that submit more worked out maps a disadvantage since the pros might want to choose maps that are easier to do obvious changes to? sorry for bad english
On June 25 2012 06:07 noNewton wrote: Regarding to your rules a big part of the judgement is not how good the product is but how the differences between old and final version are. Don't you think this gives amateurs that submit more worked out maps a disadvantage since the pros might want to choose maps that are easier to do obvious changes to? sorry for bad english
I think(I might be wrong) that it's just a part of the judging. Similar to MotM having a theme, I suppose I can present an example to clarify: say this MotM's theme was big, wide open areas. To be considered, your map has to make use of a large wide open area(s). The winner is not necessarily the map with the biggest chunk of open space, but the best map overall, which also makes the best use of a big, wide open area. Not the map with the best x-element, but the best map with a good x-element, to parrot somebody else(I forget who, lol).
If the analogy I've made makes any sense, then I believe the judging for this will work similarly.
On June 25 2012 05:53 Coppermantis wrote: Am I allowed to submit some maps I've already made or do they have to be made new?
You can submit something you've already made.
On June 25 2012 06:07 noNewton wrote: Regarding to your rules a big part of the judgement is not how good the product is but how the differences between old and final version are. Don't you think this gives amateurs that submit more worked out maps a disadvantage since the pros might want to choose maps that are easier to do obvious changes to? sorry for bad english
The point of that rule is more to discourage the 'pros' from making radical changes and effectively creating a new map. As long as it is clear that the before and after are the same map there isn't an issue
"Please send your map files to submit.motm[at]gmail.com (include your user name in subject) and post your overviews with any additional information in this thread. Follow this format while posting in this thread to ensure your entry is accepted:"
By "and post your overviews with any additional information in this thread" do you mean post the additional information in the mail or on this forum post?
Hope you liked it Maps are made for me and my friends to play on, but i figured ill try entering this competition for fun.
Please make threads for these maps.
I don't think I'm in the right here to say this, as I am not an organizer, nor anyone that will be involved in this event directly, but please make map threads BEFORE you post the maps and submissions into this thread. It makes it easier for us to give feedback, unless of course you don't want any feedback on the maps at all. Also make sure you format it in the correct way too.
I will do it right away thanks for letting me know.
Problem, i cant submit more then 1 thread for the maps, because i get this error "Error: You are trying to create multiple threads too quickly. New users are limited to how fast they can create threads. Please consider searching for an existing thread about the topic, or wait a short while and try again."
On June 26 2012 02:31 ScorpSCII wrote: Ancient Temple by Scorp Playable Bounds: 122x148 + Show Spoiler +
Thread will be up after the competition.
Wait, wut. why AFTER the competition? don't you want some feedback now to help it out??? O.o
I think its cause it feels weird making a map thread and then maybe one of the pro's looking at the version before you get feedback and gets their impression about the unfinished map, and after that, during the picking they already have a set mind about that map, even though it might have changed alot. I know I wont publish a map threads too until I know I wont get picked for that reason (and some more) .
Hope you liked it Maps are made for me and my friends to play on, but i figured ill try entering this competition for fun.
Please make threads for these maps.
I don't think I'm in the right here to say this, as I am not an organizer, nor anyone that will be involved in this event directly, but please make map threads BEFORE you post the maps and submissions into this thread. It makes it easier for us to give feedback, unless of course you don't want any feedback on the maps at all. Also make sure you format it in the correct way too.
<3
Having a thread isn't necessary as long as it is posted here and sent to the email address we're happy.
Hope you liked it Maps are made for me and my friends to play on, but i figured ill try entering this competition for fun.
Please make threads for these maps.
I don't think I'm in the right here to say this, as I am not an organizer, nor anyone that will be involved in this event directly, but please make map threads BEFORE you post the maps and submissions into this thread. It makes it easier for us to give feedback, unless of course you don't want any feedback on the maps at all. Also make sure you format it in the correct way too.
<3
Having a thread isn't necessary as long as it is posted here and sent to the email address we're happy.
Yes, but I'm not. AND I AM THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS HERE!!!
On June 26 2012 15:22 Adonminus wrote: I have a question, if you send the map to the email right now, will any further map updates be accepted or should I only send the final version?
You should be able to send updates as long as the deadline is not over, but I think the judges would prefer if you only send the final map.
On June 25 2012 21:25 Infidler wrote: "Please send your map files to submit.motm[at]gmail.com (include your user name in subject) and post your overviews with any additional information in this thread. Follow this format while posting in this thread to ensure your entry is accepted:"
By "and post your overviews with any additional information in this thread" do you mean post the additional information in the mail or on this forum post?
So i'm curious... Are the pros allowed to actually work on the map? Or can we only give feedback and watch the amateur? I can see it being really easy to take a amateur's map and then just apply changes and he just sits and watches...
In a skypecall : - The third-layout is abit too small and narrow, lets widen that a little. Try adjusting the ramps ~ Like this? - No more like in this way, but then all the way trough. ~ Ah ok so If I do this this and this it will be better. - Exactly, now mirror it to the other side ~ How do I do that easily without having to count gridcells? - Just select terrain, copy and numpad . , like this
On June 26 2012 16:38 ihasaKAROT wrote: Im pretty sure it will go something like:
In a skypecall : - The third-layout is abit too small and narrow, lets widen that a little. Try adjusting the ramps ~ Like this? - No more like in this way, but then all the way trough. ~ Ah ok so If I do this this and this it will be better. - Exactly, now mirror it to the other side ~ How do I do that easily without having to count gridcells? - Just select terrain, copy and numpad . , like this
etcetc
I dont have skype or a mic, am i disqualified?
But honestly, I dont think it will be like that, such an huge effort for both of the guys. I would imagine it more being like they discuss via anything what to do first, and then the amatour does it/some of it, and then the pro finalizes it.
I mean its a competition to win for the pros and the ametour first, a learning experience 2nd. Or atleast it would be for me, in either places.
- You should consider moving this base more to the left. ~ No. - In that case, I'd suggest you to put rocks there. ~ I like it as it is. - Sure. But you will have to remove this other base then, or move it further away. ~ No.
Either that, or the amateur will just hand over the map to the pro and go to bed.
On June 26 2012 16:24 IronManSC wrote: So i'm curious... Are the pros allowed to actually work on the map? Or can we only give feedback and watch the amateur? I can see it being really easy to take a amateur's map and then just apply changes and he just sits and watches...
How will this work?
I would think you should have a decent idea already. I don't see this being much different from the dynamic of a mapmaking team.
On June 26 2012 16:24 IronManSC wrote: So i'm curious... Are the pros allowed to actually work on the map? Or can we only give feedback and watch the amateur? I can see it being really easy to take a amateur's map and then just apply changes and he just sits and watches...
How will this work?
I would think you should have a decent idea already. I don't see this being much different from the dynamic of a mapmaking team.
The difference might be the question about who owns the map, beacuse one way of working on several maps at a time within a team effectively, is to have one owner - which is most likely the one who made the orignial.
When it comes to level design in the games industry, however, it is quite common that basic concpets are made by one person, then passed on to another for mockup and testing, then another for aesthetics and so on, i.e. the ownership changes with iterations.
Bottom line, unles there are some ruelas about it, it's up to the proAm teams to choose how they want to do and part of the challenge.
On June 26 2012 16:24 IronManSC wrote: So i'm curious... Are the pros allowed to actually work on the map? Or can we only give feedback and watch the amateur? I can see it being really easy to take a amateur's map and then just apply changes and he just sits and watches...
How will this work?
First of all, the map is ultimately submitted end of July as co-authored, with a potential prize split 50-50. So to me, that means shared ownership. That said, I enjoy helping others better themselves, so I for one would not just get the map file and say: "thanks young padawan, I'll take it from here".
I will however get the map file and do some stuff, send it back and say: "see what I did there whaddaya think?" Just like I did for you with Ohana and Fractured
I all relies on good communication, like getting a Skype chat set up, and possibly share a DropBox folder.
Yeah I think the pro is allowed to work on the map. It would be nearly impossible if they couldn't. And anyway, if the whole map is changed, it probably won't score that well (unless the map was miserable to start with, lol). I think most of the communication will either be skype or through TL PMs, or email. The pro/am team can choose how they want to communicate- skype calls are fine if they wish.
Having a thread isn't necessary as long as it is posted here and sent to the email address we're happy.
It has to be posted here, which of that is "here" ? The forum in general? Or in this spesific thread? Its not necessary, but will you get notified, if theres not sufficient information? Do you still have to put anything in this thread if you got the map in a different thread?
Maybe im making this far more complicated then it is, but im afraid this is how i must ask, to nullify my doubts.
Here = this thread As long as there is an overview and contact information we can consider the map, the extra info just makes our lives x10 easier Yes every entry should be posted in here.
This sounds freaking awesome! I've been wanting something like this for a while, so many times I've been left frustrated with the editor, knowing what I want to do but not knowing how to do it. Or I've been wondering if the concept I had was a complete dead end or whether it was worth pursuing. Having someone who knows what they are doing and can give solid advice will be so useful, and I imagine the quality of maps overall will go up.
Time to finish that map I've been working on! I think it has potential, hopefully others will too
On June 28 2012 01:12 OxyGenesis wrote: This sounds freaking awesome! I've been wanting something like this for a while, so many times I've been left frustrated with the editor, knowing what I want to do but not knowing how to do it. Or I've been wondering if the concept I had was a complete dead end or whether it was worth pursuing. Having someone who knows what they are doing and can give solid advice will be so useful, and I imagine the quality of maps overall will go up.
Time to finish that map I've been working on! I think it has potential, hopefully others will too
get to it soldier. i want to see the map so i can scream NEEDS BETTER THIRD!!! so make sure the third is good :3
On June 28 2012 01:50 Nightmarjoo wrote: Wow you guys love even paths ._>
Symetrical layout might be static and boring, and Asymetric might look more natural and interesting. But to balance a Asymetric map, with different paths, would be such a pain and so time consuming doing all the pixel work. You'd be able to roughly make 4-5 maps by the time you've made 1 balanced'ish Asymetrical. I dont even know if you really can make a Asymetrical map completely "balanced" with out expanding the map bounds and end up with a lot of useless wasted space inbetween. Sure it'll be interesting looking.. but it'll still be far of any competative play.
In my point of view, from the little i've managed to figure by now.
On June 28 2012 01:50 Nightmarjoo wrote: Wow you guys love even paths ._>
Symetrical layout might be static and boring, and Asymetric might look more natural and interesting. But to balance a Asymetric map, with different paths, would be such a pain and so time consuming doing all the pixel work. You'd be able to roughly make 4-5 maps by the time you've made 1 balanced'ish Asymetrical. I dont even know if you really can make a Asymetrical map completely "balanced" with out expanding the map bounds and end up with a lot of useless wasted space inbetween. Sure it'll be interesting looking.. but it'll still be far of any competative play.
In my point of view, from the little i've managed to figure by now.
He's not talking about asymmetrical maps, he's talking about having e.g. 3 paths through the centre, or 5, etc. Just basically not an even number for a variety of reasons.
to be honest here, I don't think submitting two basically same maps is any good. I mean this is personal opinion, im sure i dont mirror the majority here, and i don't intend any insults or bashing or anything rude in any way or form. I just think that the people would like more diverse maps. but otherwise these maps look solid and great.
to be honest here, I don't think submitting two basically same maps is any good. I mean this is personal opinion, im sure i dont mirror the majority here, and i don't intend any insults or bashing or anything rude in any way or form. I just think that the people would like more diverse maps. but otherwise these maps look solid and great.
These maps are vastly different in terms of layout. Having the main bases in the same general location (corners of the map) doesn't make the maps the same in any regard. Would you consider these two maps to be the same?
Still, I think if your trying to attract a pro, having some really different concepts would probably be a good idea. If I don't like one of those maps, I probably don't like the other. But if they are plenty different, it's kind of like doubling your chances of having one picked.
On June 28 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote: Still, I think if your trying to attract a pro, having some really different concepts would probably be a good idea. If I don't like one of those maps, I probably don't like the other. But if they are plenty different, it's kind of like doubling your chances of having one picked.
That's a fair argument. What it comes down to for me personally, is I have a core idea I want to experiment with regarding third expansions and beyond, and made a couple of maps with alternative layouts that utilize said idea. If the idea itself gets rejected before even getting off the ground, then that's about that and I'm back to the drawing board.
I guess you could say my motive is more defined that just hoping I make a map worth noticing.
I think those two maps are the same, and that there isn't enough relevant differences between them. I understand that you like this basic main/nat/third complex, but it doesn't leave enough space for the center to radically change the map - or you decided not to do it. Anyway i think that if you want yo reuse it, you should make it 2 spawns or 4 spawns mirrored (or 3 spawns if you got balls down to the ankle).
On June 28 2012 07:32 ArcticRaven wrote: I think those two maps are the same, and that there isn't enough relevant differences between them. I understand that you like this basic main/nat/third complex, but it doesn't leave enough space for the center to radically change the map - or you decided not to do it. Anyway i think that if you want yo reuse it, you should make it 2 spawns or 4 spawns mirrored (or 3 spawns if you got balls down to the ankle).
I feel you and I have very different opinions on what makes for relevant differences. I highly encourage folks to play both maps (both are published on NA) to see how differently they feel and play out. Replays are always welcome, as well.
Arctic, what he wants to make is what he wants. I feel only the main-nat-third layout is too similar. Otherwise, the middles and area around it will play out completely different. one is nice and open, the other is quite chokey.
On June 28 2012 09:37 Broodie wrote: ^^ All of you guys should move unrelated posts to Storms thread if he has one lol
less clutter more glamour in MotM
Fewer bumps, though.
Kinda hard to put the discussion of the similarity between two maps into a thread though... Since the maps have separate threads.
Yeah, not sure how we'd do that... maybe I'd have to make a general map thread for myself? :0 I've seen it done before, but usually by people with more maps on display than just two.
No detail thread yet, but it just uses Xil textures/lighting and is 140x132 (The overview shows a lot of empty space around the edges, but it's not actually in the playable area)
Also, I forgot to delete the test CCs from Sandstone Mesa and Tartarus. Oops.
I think this could be the new 'map of the month'... with a few tweaks of course. Map of the month currently is mapper judges giving critique, but this one has more reason to participate... hopefully ProAm can continue after this one.
On June 28 2012 16:17 IronManSC wrote: I think this could be the new 'map of the month'... with a few tweaks of course. Map of the month currently is mapper judges giving critique, but this one has more reason to participate... hopefully ProAm can continue after this one.
My amateur ass will be submitting in a week or so, probably by wednesday give or take, I still don't think that brings us to 13+ though lol (or even close?).
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Aurora Frost will be one of the submissions. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thread (OP Overview) slightly outdated until my new map is ready to be released, then it will be updated and a new thread for SCA Concertina will be made.
I would love some more varied thoughts on the current overview for Aurora Frost though.
On June 30 2012 06:31 plasmidghost wrote: I've always wanted to remake Monty Hall SE for SC2. I'll see what I can do.
would be hard. remember there are no mineral cross glitches anymore. would be interesting though, I'd like to see someone try to remake that one.
I didn't play BW much or watched almost anything, but the mineral cross is the thing used to make workers passable while other units don't right? if so you can just make natural units and stack them on each other or something so the wall will have a lot of HP, that will allow workers to pass while other units will have to kill the units first (its not tghe same thing of course, but it is similar
On June 30 2012 06:31 plasmidghost wrote: I've always wanted to remake Monty Hall SE for SC2. I'll see what I can do.
would be hard. remember there are no mineral cross glitches anymore. would be interesting though, I'd like to see someone try to remake that one.
I didn't play BW much or watched almost anything, but the mineral cross is the thing used to make workers passable while other units don't right? if so you can just make natural units and stack them on each other or something so the wall will have a lot of HP, that will allow workers to pass while other units will have to kill the units first (its not tghe same thing of course, but it is similar
unfortunately, having neutral units blocking paths breaks pathing, similarly to pre-placed force-fields. the pathing algorithm doesn't take into account the neutral units; so if ordered across the map, units will pile up on the blocked passageway if it is the shortest route, even if there are other, open passageways.
edit: though this may be acceptable if used in a limited way, for example a small expansion with only one entrance blocked by FFs or neutral eggs or whatever.
there might be some other solution though, maybe triggers.
On June 30 2012 06:31 plasmidghost wrote: I've always wanted to remake Monty Hall SE for SC2. I'll see what I can do.
would be hard. remember there are no mineral cross glitches anymore. would be interesting though, I'd like to see someone try to remake that one.
I didn't play BW much or watched almost anything, but the mineral cross is the thing used to make workers passable while other units don't right? if so you can just make natural units and stack them on each other or something so the wall will have a lot of HP, that will allow workers to pass while other units will have to kill the units first (its not tghe same thing of course, but it is similar
well, no. the mineral block was used to make it harder for armies to get places, but allow small groups of units past. more notably are the mineral walls on outsider and medusa. they can still get units across by glitching a worker with a unit. here's a video to show you what i mean.
Namrufus, so it break pathing, so what? it wont be used on ladder but it could make interesting games and I am sure adding a bit of control problems wont do that much when used in a pro matches. If you know the map and that there are natural units there it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
FlaShFTW, hmm ok so you can't really do it in sc2, but what you can do is make for super small area that allows for only small units to pass, of course it is different, they are different games but I think for the purposes of remaking "Monty Hall SE" you can do it with maybe with natural units, it wont be the same, but it will be at least a bit similar.
it is a choke point with stacked units that only small units can pass through, even though later on you can clean the minerals to make your life easier with passing there. You can pass with workers and after you kill the units you can pass with small units. Of course it is not the same but I think it is a cool thing to try.
On June 30 2012 10:00 moskonia wrote: Namrufus, so it break pathing, so what? it wont be used on ladder but it could make interesting games and I am sure adding a bit of control problems wont do that much when used in a pro matches. If you know the map and that there are natural units there it shouldn't be that big of a deal.
FlaShFTW, hmm ok so you can't really do it in sc2, but what you can do is make for super small area that allows for only small units to pass, of course it is different, they are different games but I think for the purposes of remaking "Monty Hall SE" you can do it with maybe with natural units, it wont be the same, but it will be at least a bit similar.
it is a choke point with stacked units that only small units can pass through, even though later on you can clean the minerals to make your life easier with passing there. You can pass with workers and after you kill the units you can pass with small units. Of course it is not the same but I think it is a cool thing to try.
wouldn't work. the entire purpose of the minerals was to only allow workers or one units at a time to go through. this idea allows small units to get through. It's just not the same with all the glitches removed from BW
I've been busy, but I'll see what I can do with regards to recreating the mineral block. It looks quite difficult, though. If I can't get it to work, I might have to use + Show Spoiler +
destructible rocks or something T.T
to where the space is limited to where only workers and equally-sized units can get through.
On June 30 2012 05:48 Broodie wrote: My amateur ass will be submitting in a week or so, probably by wednesday give or take, I still don't think that brings us to 13+ though lol (or even close?).
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv Aurora Frost will be one of the submissions. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thread (OP Overview) slightly outdated until my new map is ready to be released, then it will be updated and a new thread for SCA Concertina will be made.
I would love some more varied thoughts on the current overview for Aurora Frost though.
But I do expect quite a few submissions to be made in the final days. I already have 3 maps I can use for this, but I don't quite feel satisfied with the selection, so I'm gonna hold off and see if I can change that. I hope this'll be as fun as I'm imagining, few things ever are though. Still, chin up, and all that.
On June 30 2012 10:18 moskonia wrote: Ah well nothing we can do, best use the tools we do have to the maximum and not worry about the tools we don't have ^^
Meh, i guess. There should be a Mod type game which allows for the the old BW glitches into this :D
Well Monty Hall would be cool, but the mineral glitch is really hard to replicate. Maybe you could make a map that Blizzard is sure to like and add to the map pool. Arkanoid
On June 30 2012 14:16 No0n wrote: Well Monty Hall would be cool, but the mineral glitch is really hard to replicate. Maybe you could make a map that Blizzard is sure to like and add to the map pool. Arkanoid
I wish I was good enough to make maps that Blizzard would add to the map pool. I'm going to try to remake some BW maps, I guess. On a somewhat related note, the SC2 map editor seems a bit different from the times I used the BW galaxy editor. I hope that I can pick it up easily.
Nothing I'm doing seems to work with recreating the mineral glitch. I wonder if I can set the pathing to only allow certain units through, i.e. only workers. Edit: I found the Tasteless and Artosis automaton bots! That's actually really cool of Blizzard to put them in. Edit 2: The only thing I see working is maybe changing the radii of the units with .375 radius to .376, but I'm pretty sure that would invalidate the map. Edit 3: I think I'm in over my head. I can't get a good way to recreate the mineral glitch and I must've greatly overestimated my abilities with the mapmaker.
On June 30 2012 14:16 No0n wrote: Well Monty Hall would be cool, but the mineral glitch is really hard to replicate. Maybe you could make a map that Blizzard is sure to like and add to the map pool. Arkanoid
No. Just no. That map, although cool, was absolutely terrible. Sorry. Plus, Dustin Browder would have every excuse to use destructible rocks. tbh, im surprised he hasn't made something like that already xD
Submission #1 Map name: Risen Grounds Map Author: Yonnua Map Overview: Playable Bounds: 160x136 Map Thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342926 Concept: Increasing High-ground forcing you to control the high ground before expanding. A burial grounds remake.
Submission #2 Map name: Into the Rainbow Map Author: Yonnua Map Overview: Playable Bounds: 152x152 Map Thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349848 Concept: Space management and zoning in a heavy-macro setting. Control of 5 paths in the centre.
On July 04 2012 04:20 Plexa wrote: Lies, it will be announced on Friday
It's Friday, WHERE DEM PROS AT?
On a serious note, it'll probably be a few more days before I call time on myself and pick 3 maps to use. Just when I thought I had 3 good ones a burst of inspiration hit me and I had to keep working, so I might end up using most of the time left anyway. GLHF
I am travelling for the next week, so I'll have to submit my collection now, even though I am not happy with the results yet. All of the three maps where made after the announcement of ProAm.
Ancient Temple Created by Scorp Bounds: 122x148 + Show Spoiler +
SCORPPPP YOU DIDNT SHOW ME SACRED SANDS!!! THAT MAP LOOKS AMAZING!!! :O...
make thread now... i am the thread police. should you not comprehend within the next 24 hours, you will be temp banned for 2 days. this is your only warning. ^.^
On July 07 2012 05:49 FlaShFTW wrote: SCORPPPP YOU DIDNT SHOW ME SACRED SANDS!!! THAT MAP LOOKS AMAZING!!! :O...
make thread now... i am the thread police. should you not comprehend within the next 24 hours, you will be temp banned for 2 days. this is your only warning. ^.^
Actually I did However, it is unfinished, so I'd prefer it being somewhat complete before making a thread. You'll see it around soon enough (not within 24 hours though ^^)
On July 07 2012 06:35 Ragoo wrote: Sacred Sands really only has a few changes I want to make (compared to most other maps). I like the idea! You're too pro, disqualified
My thoughts as well. There's not enough to improve for it to win lol.
QUICK, MAKE IT ASYMMETRIC SO THAT I CAN FIX THAT AND WE CAN WIN
On July 07 2012 06:35 Ragoo wrote: Sacred Sands really only has a few changes I want to make (compared to most other maps). I like the idea! You're too pro, disqualified
My thoughts as well. There's not enough to improve for it to win lol.
QUICK, MAKE IT ASYMMETRIC SO THAT I CAN FIX THAT AND WE CAN WIN
SCREW YOU I'VE WORKED WITH SCORP ON SKYPE MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE HERE! I DESERVE TO BE PRO AND FIX IT
I'll submit the third one later. Thanks for making this competition, really motivated me.
What's the mineral amount? Because I can totally see people 10 pooling taking an extractor at the natural and just mining out the mineral. or 2 raxx or 2 gating we
I'll submit the third one later. Thanks for making this competition, really motivated me.
What's the mineral amount? Because I can totally see people 10 pooling taking an extractor at the natural and just mining out the mineral. or 2 raxx or 2 gating we
It is 77. However, if you put a stalker or marines on top attacking the worker while it mines you can actually prevent mining completely, as in kill worker before it finishes the animation, hence blocking the wall indefinitely.
Edit: even if you just leave the worker to mine, it takes a long time.
On July 08 2012 19:21 1a2a3a[MB] wrote: Sideways Ohana
Just because it has a circular center and beach-like textures?
Ignore comments like that. Your map and Ohana have almost nothing in common, except the number of spawn points.
On July 08 2012 20:48 thezanursic wrote: What's the mineral amount? Because I can totally see people 10 pooling taking an extractor at the natural and just mining out the mineral. or 2 raxx or 2 gating we
Map Name: Hierophant Map Author: TibblesEvilC (TibblesEvilCat on TL) Map Overview: + Show Spoiler +
Playable Map Bounds: 148x144 Pritty standard Map, close spawn disabled
Easily fe'd and backdoor towards 3rd base blocked by rocks, airspace for air units to function behind main minerals, so airplay will have good prospects. but have good temperance to not die to ground attack.
On July 08 2012 20:48 thezanursic wrote: What's the mineral amount? Because I can totally see people 10 pooling taking an extractor at the natural and just mining out the mineral. or 2 raxx or 2 gating we
...an extractor huh? They can do that now?
Meaning you can take a load of minerals and then send your worker to the extractor to get rid of them instead of going all the way home. Cause you replace the minerals it's carrying with gas and then you can go back for more.
On July 09 2012 01:55 Gfire wrote: Meaning you can take a load of minerals and then send your worker to the extractor to get rid of them instead of going all the way home. Cause you replace the minerals it's carrying with gas and then you can go back for more.
Oh, ok. Either way, a player who keeps an eye on the backdoor's mineral count should be able to hold it off, that's just part of how a mineral backdoor works. And also, a push that uses that trick is going to be slower/weaker than a straight up push, and so plays out more like cheese. I don't see a problem.
On July 09 2012 01:55 Gfire wrote: Meaning you can take a load of minerals and then send your worker to the extractor to get rid of them instead of going all the way home. Cause you replace the minerals it's carrying with gas and then you can go back for more.
Oh, ok. Either way, a player who keeps an eye on the backdoor's mineral count should be able to hold it off, that's just part of how a mineral backdoor works. And also, a push that uses that trick is going to be slower/weaker than a straight up push, and so plays out more like cheese. I don't see a problem.
On July 10 2012 01:32 NewSunshine wrote: You and your threads... I'll try to post a thread or 2 when I make my entries, so you don't have a heart attack :D
too late. im in the hospital right now. probs not gunna survive the surgery. needs implant of threads. unless you guys can make threads, i will die.
OH NOO!!!!
Flashftw, his life... it's hanging by a thread D:
Anyway, my entry is incoming, so I might double post. Oh well.
On July 10 2012 07:16 Coppermantis wrote: Are we allowed to change our entries? I've submitted three but I'd like to exchange one map for another.
Of course, just email the map you want to enter and explain which one you want it to replace. As long as it's before the deadline, I assume any changes to an entry are fair game.
I was originally planning on making 3 1v1 maps, but alas I had many things going on so I made only one 1v1 map, that is why I will also add 2 of my 2v2 maps incase some pro wants to work on a 2v2 map
moskonia, do you have threads for your maps? You should create them
I like your approach to the watchtowers, very cool.
I also appreciate the 3rd base that is on the 2nd level but not connected to the natural. However I think it's a little too easy to hold. As a protoss I would just wall off the front and defend it with blink stalkers. Perhaps a ramp near the statue? You could put rocks on it if you didn't want it to be completely open, too.
The base can be shot at from the low ground, so defending it won't be all that easy. You really have to defend the ground in front of it. Because it takes so long to walk from the base to the low ground, it could be very hard to defend from drops, air, blink, etc, unless you have something that can pass over the cliffs yourself. In some matchups it could get pretty icky.
Of course it's not very vulnerable to straight up attacks, though, which helps make up for it. I think that's fine, so long as it doesn't doesn't cause imbalances.
I have threads for the 2v2 maps for the 1v1 not yet. The pocket expo is like Gfire said, easy to defend vs ground, hard to defend vs air. The pocket expo is really unique imo, for example it creates a situation that if you block the entrance to the pocket with a wall and some cannons you can defend pretty easy 3 bases with good stalker positioning, or as Zerg you can harass / defend much easier with muta's, etc.
I only played this a couple time, so I wonder how it will turn out
Well I hope you don´t dislike finished maps. Maybe I even find the motivation to submit a 3rd map. Thinking about it, I have to admit that I really dislike the format of the contest. On Incandescence for example you could do some balance tweaks but other than that... not a lot. So it is pretty much only useful to submit unfinished maps.
Will the pros be only editing the existing maps with their amateurs or will they be allowed to remake the map preserving the concept/layout? I.e. to what degree are the pros allowed to act?
On July 13 2012 03:03 Nightmarjoo wrote: Will the pros be only editing the existing maps with their amateurs or will they be allowed to remake the map preserving the concept/layout? I.e. to what degree are the pros allowed to act?
You're working on one map together, so creating a new map from scratch seems to me to be against the spirit of the rules, if not the letter.
On July 13 2012 03:03 Nightmarjoo wrote: Will the pros be only editing the existing maps with their amateurs or will they be allowed to remake the map preserving the concept/layout? I.e. to what degree are the pros allowed to act?
Both are okay. There is only a problem when the map is completely different.
On July 13 2012 07:42 Guardian85 wrote: At what hour will the submits stop? Its technically 13th... atleast where i live.. 00:39 GMT+1/2 (+2 during summer time) Does it have a UTC time?
As long as there is a timezone in the 13th I'm happy to accept it!
These maps are looking awesome, aesthetically and technically. I'm really glad to see such strong maps come from "amateurs." This really affirms for me that we should work out some TL map pool of maps that were posted on the forums here and received well, as well as maps that were used in any tournament that aren't on the ladder.
Some really great maps coming out, it seems to me that this competition will produce some real gems. Via Benefico is my personal favourite so far. Haven't seen Orbit Brutus in this thread but I hope to see it entered as well (I'm reminded of it by Ancient Fates). I'm really looking forward to seeing what makes it out of this competition.
EDIT: Thanks Sea_Food, didn't see it there for some reason. Glad it's in!
On July 13 2012 23:34 SeinGalton wrote: Some really great maps coming out, it seems to me that this competition will produce some real gems. Via Benefico is my personal favourite so far. Haven't seen Orbit Brutus in this thread but I hope to see it entered as well (I'm reminded of it by Ancient Fates). I'm really looking forward to seeing what makes it out of this competition.
On July 13 2012 23:34 SeinGalton wrote: Some really great maps coming out, it seems to me that this competition will produce some real gems. Via Benefico is my personal favourite so far. Haven't seen Orbit Brutus in this thread but I hope to see it entered as well (I'm reminded of it by Ancient Fates). I'm really looking forward to seeing what makes it out of this competition.
On July 13 2012 07:42 Guardian85 wrote: At what hour will the submits stop? Its technically 13th... atleast where i live.. 00:39 GMT+1/2 (+2 during summer time) Does it have a UTC time?
As long as there is a timezone in the 13th I'm happy to accept it!
On July 14 2012 03:05 TheFish7 wrote: By my count there are 33 amateurs who have posted 64 maps so far. not a bad turnout, and a ton for the pros to choose from...
I just hope it's the right people who get the coaching/"pros" now! Which is another reason for me not to submit, aside from my map being wierd.
On July 13 2012 07:42 Guardian85 wrote: At what hour will the submits stop? Its technically 13th... atleast where i live.. 00:39 GMT+1/2 (+2 during summer time) Does it have a UTC time?
As long as there is a timezone in the 13th I'm happy to accept it!
Which means the final submission time is around 7am UTC on the 14th?
On July 14 2012 04:45 Coppermantis wrote: Because it's still the 13th in some Time zones.
On July 13 2012 14:52 Plexa wrote:
On July 13 2012 07:42 Guardian85 wrote: At what hour will the submits stop? Its technically 13th... atleast where i live.. 00:39 GMT+1/2 (+2 during summer time) Does it have a UTC time?
As long as there is a timezone in the 13th I'm happy to accept it!
Which means the final submission time is around 7am UTC on the 14th?
13th July 23.59 GMT+0? 13th July 11.59PM zulu time? Thats atleast what would make sense.
On July 14 2012 01:37 OxyGenesis wrote: Found a scribble in my notebook for a 4p map so I made it speedily as my 3rd entry. No time at all spent on aesthetics.
Folsom Facility 152x152
..... Why is this soooooooo similar to my map... Like almost every thing is the same...
Wow. As I look at it again, it's so similar. here's my map, if you want to look at it yourself.... Please don't copy someone else's hard-thought design T.T
This is in the middle up an update from 6m1hyg to 8m2g, the bottom half is my working concept, the top half is what it used to be (but minerals are still changed on top) 140x140
On July 14 2012 01:37 OxyGenesis wrote: Found a scribble in my notebook for a 4p map so I made it speedily as my 3rd entry. No time at all spent on aesthetics.
Folsom Facility 152x152
..... Why is this soooooooo similar to my map... Like almost every thing is the same...
Wow. As I look at it again, it's so similar. here's my map, if you want to look at it yourself.... Please don't copy someone else's hard-thought design T.T
everyone knows it's the tiny details that make the map completely different. For example, see that the destructible rocks are at 180 and 90 degrees in his version, whereas in yours they're at 45 degrees. Little changes like that make his map completely different to yours. You just don't understand.
On July 14 2012 01:37 OxyGenesis wrote: Found a scribble in my notebook for a 4p map so I made it speedily as my 3rd entry. No time at all spent on aesthetics.
Folsom Facility 152x152
..... Why is this soooooooo similar to my map... Like almost every thing is the same...
Wow. As I look at it again, it's so similar. here's my map, if you want to look at it yourself.... Please don't copy someone else's hard-thought design T.T
The two maps are not terribly similar. You're over-reacting a bit, I think.
On July 14 2012 01:37 OxyGenesis wrote: Found a scribble in my notebook for a 4p map so I made it speedily as my 3rd entry. No time at all spent on aesthetics.
Folsom Facility 152x152
..... Why is this soooooooo similar to my map... Like almost every thing is the same...
Wow. As I look at it again, it's so similar. here's my map, if you want to look at it yourself.... Please don't copy someone else's hard-thought design T.T
everyone knows it's the tiny details that make the map completely different. For example, see that the destructible rocks are at 180 and 90 degrees in his version, whereas in yours they're at 45 degrees. Little changes like that make his map completely different to yours. You just don't understand.
haha, I see you're butthurt from the last thing on Bazzar or something. I defended you, you know I really think these maps so so similar, that he should pull his out.
Rhynick// in what way? He just changed the corridor on my map into a cliff, which really doesnt change anything, and changed the ANGLE of the rocks. Sigh. Well I guess more comments saying that they're not the same will come out T.T
On July 14 2012 01:37 OxyGenesis wrote: Found a scribble in my notebook for a 4p map so I made it speedily as my 3rd entry. No time at all spent on aesthetics.
Folsom Facility 152x152
..... Why is this soooooooo similar to my map... Like almost every thing is the same...
Wow. As I look at it again, it's so similar. here's my map, if you want to look at it yourself.... Please don't copy someone else's hard-thought design T.T
everyone knows it's the tiny details that make the map completely different. For example, see that the destructible rocks are at 180 and 90 degrees in his version, whereas in yours they're at 45 degrees. Little changes like that make his map completely different to yours. You just don't understand.
It's not the rocks. Stop trying to make us look dumb, it's backfiring. The base layouts for the 2 maps are pretty much the same, but the pathways into/around the centers of the 2 maps are way different. Plus, the Folsom map has 4 Xel'Naga towers, which makes a considerable difference. Plus, they're both very much amateur mappers, they're not at a level where they should be worried about plagiarism, or offending somebody(no offense). If you want to keep arguing about this, then that's your problem.
On July 14 2012 01:37 OxyGenesis wrote: Found a scribble in my notebook for a 4p map so I made it speedily as my 3rd entry. No time at all spent on aesthetics.
Folsom Facility 152x152
..... Why is this soooooooo similar to my map... Like almost every thing is the same...
Wow. As I look at it again, it's so similar. here's my map, if you want to look at it yourself.... Please don't copy someone else's hard-thought design T.T
everyone knows it's the tiny details that make the map completely different. For example, see that the destructible rocks are at 180 and 90 degrees in his version, whereas in yours they're at 45 degrees. Little changes like that make his map completely different to yours. You just don't understand.
haha, I see you're butthurt from the last thing on Bazzar or something. I defended you, you know I really think these maps so so similar, that he should pull his out.
Rhynick// in what way? He just changed the corridor on my map into a cliff, which really doesnt change anything, and changed the ANGLE of the rocks. Sigh. Well I guess more comments saying that they're not the same will come out T.T
The center of the map is completely different. You need to realize that these are very serious allegations which you are making, and should only be made when there is certainly no doubt to be had.
The centers are different enough. Anyway, all 4p rota maps with this standard nat/main/third layout have everything except the center in common. Don't go fooling around accusing people when there is such a high chance that you did the same thing purely randomly. And even then, who would want to copy that map ?
On July 14 2012 01:37 OxyGenesis wrote: Found a scribble in my notebook for a 4p map so I made it speedily as my 3rd entry. No time at all spent on aesthetics.
Folsom Facility 152x152
..... Why is this soooooooo similar to my map... Like almost every thing is the same...
Wow. As I look at it again, it's so similar. here's my map, if you want to look at it yourself.... Please don't copy someone else's hard-thought design T.T
everyone knows it's the tiny details that make the map completely different. For example, see that the destructible rocks are at 180 and 90 degrees in his version, whereas in yours they're at 45 degrees. Little changes like that make his map completely different to yours. You just don't understand.
haha, I see you're butthurt from the last thing on Bazzar or something. I defended you, you know I really think these maps so so similar, that he should pull his out.
Rhynick// in what way? He just changed the corridor on my map into a cliff, which really doesnt change anything, and changed the ANGLE of the rocks. Sigh. Well I guess more comments saying that they're not the same will come out T.T
Dude he was defending you. He was being sarcastic... unless there's something I'm missing. And yes the maps are similar but there isn't much anybody can do about copying layouts- who knows if he even saw yours when he made his map.
On July 14 2012 01:37 OxyGenesis wrote: Found a scribble in my notebook for a 4p map so I made it speedily as my 3rd entry. No time at all spent on aesthetics.
Folsom Facility 152x152
..... Why is this soooooooo similar to my map... Like almost every thing is the same...
Wow. As I look at it again, it's so similar. here's my map, if you want to look at it yourself.... Please don't copy someone else's hard-thought design T.T
everyone knows it's the tiny details that make the map completely different. For example, see that the destructible rocks are at 180 and 90 degrees in his version, whereas in yours they're at 45 degrees. Little changes like that make his map completely different to yours. You just don't understand.
haha, I see you're butthurt from the last thing on Bazzar or something. I defended you, you know I really think these maps so so similar, that he should pull his out.
Rhynick// in what way? He just changed the corridor on my map into a cliff, which really doesnt change anything, and changed the ANGLE of the rocks. Sigh. Well I guess more comments saying that they're not the same will come out T.T
Dude he was defending you. He was being sarcastic... unless there's something I'm missing. And yes the maps are similar but there isn't much anybody can do about copying layouts- who knows if he even saw yours when he made his map.
Yeah, I knew he was defending me. I guess I can't do much about it, sorry for all the trouble I guess.
On July 14 2012 09:16 FlaShFTW wrote: WAIT 33 amatuers??? CAN I BE A PRO??? :DDD
No. We'd be able to tell which map you worked on because it would be basically the same as before, just with a really really good 3rd base.
screw you guys, still kicking me into the ground even when im not even in the skype -.- meanies.
ALSO IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT BY ME!!!
4K Post will be here in the map forums. It will be my first ever map. Ever. And might be the only one i make. Screw you people in "The Map Cave" on skype. Go screw urselves. <3
On July 14 2012 01:37 OxyGenesis wrote: Found a scribble in my notebook for a 4p map so I made it speedily as my 3rd entry. No time at all spent on aesthetics.
Folsom Facility 152x152
..... Why is this soooooooo similar to my map... Like almost every thing is the same...
Wow. As I look at it again, it's so similar. here's my map, if you want to look at it yourself.... Please don't copy someone else's hard-thought design T.T
everyone knows it's the tiny details that make the map completely different. For example, see that the destructible rocks are at 180 and 90 degrees in his version, whereas in yours they're at 45 degrees. Little changes like that make his map completely different to yours. You just don't understand.
haha, I see you're butthurt from the last thing on Bazzar or something. I defended you, you know I really think these maps so so similar, that he should pull his out.
Rhynick// in what way? He just changed the corridor on my map into a cliff, which really doesnt change anything, and changed the ANGLE of the rocks. Sigh. Well I guess more comments saying that they're not the same will come out T.T
Dude he was defending you. He was being sarcastic... unless there's something I'm missing. And yes the maps are similar but there isn't much anybody can do about copying layouts- who knows if he even saw yours when he made his map.
Yeah, I knew he was defending me. I guess I can't do much about it, sorry for all the trouble I guess.
Shit man, they are similar! I do remember seeing your map so I guess the idea with the rocks must have stuck in my mind somehow. Completely unintentional. You've obviously spent way longer on yours so I would encourage the pros to pick your map over mine.
I want to be chosen also, but that's unlikely as I have no doubt that literally every other competitor has a better working knowledge of the map editor than I do...
On July 16 2012 00:11 TibblesEvilCat wrote: what's the ETA on people knowing stuffs?
Decisions by the 16th - it's in the OP.
I'm working on trying to stick to this deadline, but some mappers haven't chosen their maps yet. What I might do is confirm as many people as possible tomorrow and go from there.
On July 17 2012 04:50 Aunvilgod wrote: I would like to withdraw from the contest. Just in case one of my maps got chosen.
Epic timing.
Does not seem like all the Pros will choose today. So it should be okay.
Still, I am sorry for that timing. I will try to make up my mind earlier next time.
Well if a high priority pro picked you already, then pros lower priority than him picked a map that the higher priority would have as a 2nd, then will the lower priority pro give the map to higher priority pro or what? Confusing.
On July 17 2012 04:50 Aunvilgod wrote: I would like to withdraw from the contest. Just in case one of my maps got chosen.
Epic timing.
Does not seem like all the Pros will choose today. So it should be okay.
Still, I am sorry for that timing. I will try to make up my mind earlier next time.
Why did you decide to leave the contest?
I think our opinions about the map could have been too different. And because it is not clear who the boss is... I think I just really don't like the idea of somebody else doing anything with my map.
And your still the author of the map.. the pro can basicly only suggest and advice.. your the one to take his advice and use it.. or not use it.
Your not just giving your work over to a pro.. and say "here, do your modifications, and improve it.. thanks" Its not giving away your idea or design to a pro who will take the credit and redo your initial map.
As far as i've understood this.
He is your guide, to help you learn... to allow you in on small secrets.. to increase the teams experience.. to help you increase your understanding and progress, to become a better mapper.
I dont know if its completely this way... but im seeing this as cherity work more then anything else. And if i was lucky enough to be picked.. i'd be glad to have someone who's credability and experience alongside with me.
On July 17 2012 04:50 Aunvilgod wrote: I would like to withdraw from the contest. Just in case one of my maps got chosen.
Epic timing.
Does not seem like all the Pros will choose today. So it should be okay.
Still, I am sorry for that timing. I will try to make up my mind earlier next time.
Why did you decide to leave the contest?
I think our opinions about the map could have been too different. And because it is not clear who the boss is... I think I just really don't like the idea of somebody else doing anything with my map.
We're trying to help, as Guardian said. You don't have to use the feedback the pro gives you if you don't want to. Don't give your map files to anybody if you want to do it that way. And if you were to give your map files, its not like you will ever lose the original... all that could happen would be that the map is improved. There's also a $50 prize for the winning team and $25 for second place.
The prize to me though is like only a formal thing.. where theres actual a reward for the competition. 50 bucks is a spec of dust on my scale.. (no offence) but its more like a symbol.. of winning.
But i see the real prize here is to improve.. to get some attention around your work.. to have your work displayed for a chance to be more involved into mapmaking.. and learning through the proccess.
On July 17 2012 13:11 Guardian85 wrote: The prize to me though is like only a formal thing.. where theres actual a reward for the competition. 50 bucks is a spec of dust on my scale.. (no offence) but its more like a symbol.. of winning.
But i see the real prize here is to improve.. to get some attention around your work.. to have your work displayed for a chance to be more involved into mapmaking.. and learning through the proccess.
For sure, I don't think the 50$ is really foremost on anyones mind... It is an after thought more then anything.
I hope the list gets published before I go to work tomarrow evening. ^_^
I dont really care about the 50$ , sure its nice to have money, but Id just like my map to finally be good enough. Allways just outside the top5 motm, want to finally be in there
On July 17 2012 04:50 Aunvilgod wrote: I would like to withdraw from the contest. Just in case one of my maps got chosen.
Epic timing.
Does not seem like all the Pros will choose today. So it should be okay.
Still, I am sorry for that timing. I will try to make up my mind earlier next time.
Why did you decide to leave the contest?
I think our opinions about the map could have been too different. And because it is not clear who the boss is... I think I just really don't like the idea of somebody else doing anything with my map.
We're trying to help, as Guardian said. You don't have to use the feedback the pro gives you if you don't want to. Don't give your map files to anybody if you want to do it that way. And if you were to give your map files, its not like you will ever lose the original... all that could happen would be that the map is improved. There's also a $50 prize for the winning team and $25 for second place.
EPT
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to 
But Plexa said there would be a randomized ordering in case of that.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ycL16.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RNARV.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MCM08.jpg)
Map Overview![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FbBEY.jpg)
