|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lq7y0.jpg)
Published on NA
Playable size: 168 x 168
The energy of the temple keeps the Zerg at bay. For now...
I got some great feedback from the May MOTM and I have tried to make changes based on the following.
On June 01 2012 14:34 Nightmarjoo wrote:
I like Auir Refuge a lot, it just isn't as clean as the previous two. The four bases per player are a little closer to each other than I'd prefer as well. The layout seems good though, and while the map is large it didn't feel too big to me. As with the others above I didn't get to test it extensively though. I'm potentially worried about the fact that you can blink into the nat from the 4th area, though it may not actually matter. The vulnerability of the nat from behind definitely makes or breaks the map. I don't know which way that balance tips though.
On June 03 2012 06:43 monitor wrote:Auir RefugeVery cool ideas and well done with rotational symmetry. I just can't see this natural design working. The rush distance is really short once you break the rocks, so I don't think many games are going to get past the mid game. The natural is creative but... tanks, colossi, blink stalkers, mutalisks, etc. are just going to be too powerful imo. I can't see a solid balance coming from it, and I don't know if the gameplay will make up for it. Show nested quote +My first instinct is "woah this is a nice well-made map"; my second is "oh god blink harass at the nat" -
nightmarjoo
Therefore, I reworked the space around the natural base. I pushed minerals further back and created more open space around it to prevent the type of harass described in the feedback. I also tweaked the 3rd and 4th bases slightly.
Old Version
+ Show Spoiler +
Analyzer
+ Show Spoiler +
Screenshots
+ Show Spoiler +
Feedback welcome
Update Changelog
Removed high ground pods near the middle to open it up more
Slight tweaking on natural (Natural base is not siegable from the low ground)
Lowered high ground above 4th one level
Adjusted middle to accommodate 4th base high ground change
Removed some rocks in the middle
Lessened space behind minerals in natural to reduce ease of hiding proxies
My map portfolio: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=352620
|
Did you make a 4 player steppes of war? Bases are wayyyy too close.
The middle is forcefield heaven. Chokes everywhere.
|
United States10247 Posts
suggest you take out the middle area stuff like the tiny bits of highground and the center and make them all just flat highground. third is impossible to take. pretty much a 4p steppes. rush distance too close.
|
I'm a little confused by the first two comments how is it like Steppes of War?
Nat to Nat Steppes of war
+ Show Spoiler +
Nat to Nat distance on Aiur Refuge is 128. That's 50% longer. What about the map makes a third base impossible? Some specificity would be appreciated.
|
On April 29 2012 12:09 MarcusRife wrote:I'm a little confused by the first two comments how is it like Steppes of War? Nat to Nat Steppes of war + Show Spoiler +
I think, worryingly, that some people just say it looks like steppes, without realizing how short it actually is on that map. From my understanding, anything above 120 was in that acceptable range, preferably 130 I think should be the minimum though. It just looks really short on this map because the map is really big. That said, since it's so big there is definitely room to adjust it and make it a bit bigger.
|
as a Zerg player this map terrifies me. it the ramps to the middle were bigger and a less chokeyness in the middle. this map could be really good.
|
The maps become even better every month.. Every map become more bautiful 
|
You must leave some space between the mineralls and the cliff in the 3rd, mules will get stuck behind, and marine drop here = win in TvZ.
|
Siege tanks will dominate this map, too many chokes =(
It does look good though, you should play 10 test matches against a decent terran to see what I mean.
|
On April 29 2012 22:19 fenX wrote:
You must leave some space between the mineralls and the cliff in the 3rd, mules will get stuck behind, and marine drop here = win in TvZ.
I have taken measures already to keep that from happening. I have already tested it. In my tests mules have never gone on the wrong side and gotten stuck and dropping marines in inaccessible places has not been possible.
For reference look at the third on Cloud Kingdom. There is no space there either.
|
On April 29 2012 23:56 Callynn wrote:
Siege tanks will dominate this map, too many chokes =(
It does look good though, you should play 10 test matches against a decent terran to see what I mean.
I admit that the center is not super wide open like other maps say like Tal'Darim. The intention was so that 1a is punished and good positioning and setting up attacks is rewarded more. Some tweaking may be necessary but some thought did go into making this interesting and playable.
Some scenarios
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WwAZY.jpg) Setting up space controlling units like siege tanks in the white areas is very powerful on this map. I meant it to be this way. But if you do this you get yourself out of position to defend these side paths and make it hard on yourself to hold 3rd and 4th bases. You give something up when you over commit to this center area.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/X8jsu.jpg) Also, if you try to position in the center a well prepared Zerg can have these rocks opened up and attack from three sides from high ground positions. The ramps in the center are 4-wide ramps.
These are some examples of how the design of the center is meant to encourage tactics such as these which I think are good for the game
|
i like the third. on most positions its safe cause its away from your opponent, however its pretty open so not too safe.
i think u must change the middle, it seems too choky, make it a bit more open? and i dont like how easy it is to siege the natural mineral line, the natural kinda reminds me of tal darim altar (and i think mot people will agree it sucks in ZvT to lose the natural to tanks ...)
|
Can the main base be hit with siege tanks from the low ground? Because that's something you will want to change if so...
Also, you seem to have quite a bit of dead space in the map (around the edges, around the thirds). I bet if you worked to cut some of that down you could easily make the map a little tighter (more like 160x160 or 152x152). Make sure to not cut down the rush distances much though, because 128 is a pretty perfect rush distance, but tightening the map will make it easier to read and more appealing to play on.
|
Sieging from the low ground may be a problem, along with Blink play. Also, HUGE positional imbalance. If Zerg spawns counterclockwise from Terran, they should probably just GG.
|
Updates
Removed high ground pods near the middle to open it up more
Slight tweaking on natural (Natural base is not siegable from the low ground)
On April 30 2012 04:36 Acritter wrote:
Sieging from the low ground may be a problem, along with Blink play. Also, HUGE positional imbalance. If Zerg spawns counterclockwise from Terran, they should probably just GG.
Having different spawning position pairs play differently is not inherently a problem. For example someone goes first in chess. It is only if the player doesn't have options to overcome it. I think with the base not being siegeable a Zerg can withstand an attack. That does need testing though.
My design philosophy is to provide options for attacking earlier on the game than most of the other maps that are being produced. I am bored by the lack of action in the early game. I am aware that these can be made too strong but I am making every effort to try to make sure that is not the case.
|
Updates
Lowered high ground above 4th one level
Adjusted middle to accommodate 4th base high ground change
I could really use some strong constructive feedback as I plan to submit this to MOTM.
|
the third seems very easy to take which i personally like, but you could try with a backdoor into the main from the third. I hope you know what I mean, i think this would make the map a bit more interesting in the early game.
On second thought, a backdoor into the main would be maybe even better if placed at the top of the main base, above the natural. (I look at the top base right now. )
EDIT: the main path look very small to me, that might just be my feeling, but i don't see a place I would really like to engage with ling/bling, can't really get a surround how I see it. You could try merging the two main ramps leading into the middle plateau into one big ramp; also try pulling the four double-blocks in the very middle a bit more to the outside. My idea : get rid of the destructible rocks and put the double-blocks in their place. I know this would make the map a bit more straight-forward, but also open the middle quite a bit.
good luck with your map!
|
looks very nice and well thought.
I prefer the newer version. Nice map!
|
|
|
This is such a innovative, technical, yet confusing map... I think you have a wonderful concept in mind, you just need to re-think a couple things. I don't think having two destructible rocks right next to each other is the best solution. Just use one diagonal and block off a single choke, for instance.
Also, the naturals have a tal'darim touch to it, although I can tell by the overview that you did your best to make them non-abusable by siege units, but the potential for proxy is increased by at least 80%. I would consider re-designing the naturals a little, or re-positioning the minerals to help spot proxies better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cMMPd.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/VyWaj.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nrw4u.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ASo8j.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/0Bqh2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r0TxB.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9yEjc.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/jIHel.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/w25cq.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/oHrfk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lAoXd.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CiMZ2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/G5nAl.jpg)
