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Nerazim Exile
puplished on EU and NA (ty Veloh15)
OK, so I went into making this map with 3 basic features in mind:
+) a third base that is kind of "on the way" and around which the gameplan and the unit movements center.
+) an "Antiga like" strong middle watchtower, from where you can push into multiple directions
+) 3stage "mountain" area
Now there has been a complete overhaul for this map, so please check out the new pics and compare them to the old ones and leave feedback. I would really like to make this map work. 
Pictures:
Distances (Comparison with Cloud Kingdom)
+ Show Spoiler +Compared to Cloud Kingdom, -) the main to main rush distance per ground, is slightly longer (185 vs 173). -) the nat to nat rush distance per ground, is longer (149 vs 128) -) the third to third rush distance per ground, is slightly shorter than the nat to third of Cloud Kingdom, which is the closest attack path towards one of the first three bases on CK. (97 vs 106) Cloud Kingdom
Tileset is Shakuras, lighting is slightly darker (especially less blue)
Old Version Pics:
+ Show Spoiler +
Update log
+ Show Spoiler +
0.1 to 0.2:
-) redesigned the main slightly; it's now more backwards occupying some space that was formerly space of the expansion.
less space around the third and at the natural choke controllable from the main high ground
repositioned the minerals
-) slightly shorter rush distance, through the main's redesign; units now naturally pass the XNWT when going towards the opponent.
-) added a shared 6th base in the middle, and changed the area around the XNWT (sight blockers changed)
-) broadened the ramp to the third from 4x to 5x (though this will be possibly reverted)
-) broadened some paths slightly
-) some texture reworks and some doodads added
-) changed the lighting to make it darker (less blue)
0.2 to 0.3:
-) little more changes to the main, so that it can't cover the third and natural choke that well anymore
-) third ramp now directed upwards, lenghtening the rush distance slightly, making it less coverable from the mainbase
-) third ramp size decreased from 5x to 4x
-) middle area redesigned to be a bit more open
-) positional rocks semiblocking the path from behind to the third
-) a little more doodads (still way to go)
0.3 to 0.4:
-) Complete overhaul
0.4 to 0.5:
-) Some minor ramp and choke changes
-) Doodating
-) Added Sight Blockers
-) some minor symmetry fixes
0.5 to 0.6:
-) 5th bases are now further away from each other
-) Ramp towards the natural removed
-) Doodating
-) Neutral Depots at the main ramp
0.6 to 0.7:
-) Former natural ramp spot does not longer reach the natural mineral line with siege tanks
-) More space behind most mineral lines
-) Doodads
-) a couple of Karaks has found it's home around the upper neutral base
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Those naturals look pretty big, and it looks easy to cover the natural choke from the high ground =/
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United States10154 Posts
expect terran to always open reaper :DDD
agree with ironman. the natural seems a bit too big. uhm... maybe a shared base? id put it underneath the rocks in the middle but on the very low ground.
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I kinda like the idea but i think in this version it's heavily terran favored
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Ok, first and foremost thanks for the replies
On July 11 2012 02:33 IronManSC wrote:
Those naturals look pretty big, and it looks easy to cover the natural choke from the high ground =/
Hm, yeah I guess you are right, but I think there is an easy solution for this. I think I'm just gonna expand the the main towards the natural a little bit and cut it around the choke area and refill the space (to make walling, FFE still possible) with doodads (which the map is lacking of currently anyways).
On July 11 2012 02:47 FlaShFTW wrote:
expect terran to always open reaper :DDD
agree with ironman. the natural seems a bit too big. uhm... maybe a shared base? id put it underneath the rocks in the middle but on the very low ground.
I'm taking the reaper thing as a compliment, as it is kind of underused right now 
I'm not really sure if it is fair in that position, as I don't think anyone will ever be able to take it apart from Terrans. Maybe expand the little island to a semiisland expansion... hm not sure.
And well, while I'm at it... no comment about the third base? 
On July 11 2012 03:14 FabiDarkSide wrote:
I kinda like the idea but i think in this version it's heavily terran favored
could you elaborate a bit on this? Because I can partly see the problem, but then again, there are quite some counterattackpaths, the rushdistance is kind of big and the main path is really open... I'm in kind of in an "if you let him get there, it's your own fault" - mood right now. Unless you mean the defensive setup (PF at the third, 2tanks around, 1 around the main, 2 around the path to the 4th... something like that). Not sure, Terrans don't invest much into mech these days metagamewise, so I guess it's not too bad to make a map on which those playstyles seems kind of strong. But maybe I'm missing somthing, or underestimating the droppotential.
...reading what I just wrote makes me think I really need to play some more Zerg again
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The natural size is fine...?? Why would it matter anyway?
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I'm going to be a stickler for lore and say that there were no Nerazim exiles, just Nerazim that acted to preserve their lives and cover.
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On July 11 2012 06:37 Praetorial wrote:
I'm going to be a stickler for lore and say that there were no Nerazim exiles, just Nerazim that acted to preserve their lives and cover.
There is a whole section about "Exile" in the SC2 Wiki:
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Templar
The describtion says:
Nerazim
Type: Exiled protoss tribes
So unless I don't understand it right, I think there were exiles.
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On July 11 2012 07:24 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 06:37 Praetorial wrote:
I'm going to be a stickler for lore and say that there were no Nerazim exiles, just Nerazim that acted to preserve their lives and cover. There is a whole section about "Exile" in the SC2 Wiki: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_TemplarThe describtion says: Nerazim Type: Exiled protoss tribes So unless I don't understand it right, I think there were exiles.
I was actually just reading that entry earlier whilst trying to find map names.
Basically the dark templar and other protoss had a bit of a scrap and it was kind of mutually agreed that the templar would be better if they just gtfo and find their own planet.
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So, updated the map based upon the suggestions and made it darker, (though it is still called Nerazim Exile - might change that too when I come up with a better name). Check the Update log and the new pics for more details.
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On July 11 2012 07:24 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 11 2012 06:37 Praetorial wrote:
I'm going to be a stickler for lore and say that there were no Nerazim exiles, just Nerazim that acted to preserve their lives and cover. There is a whole section about "Exile" in the SC2 Wiki: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_TemplarThe describtion says: Nerazim Type: Exiled protoss tribes So unless I don't understand it right, I think there were exiles.
I'm an idiot, sorry. This is what I was thinking
http://www.wowwiki.com/Nathrezim
Curse Blizzard for deriving names.
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From the first look it's a little bit terran favored...but need to try it out when i get home.
Definitly a gorgeous looking map nevertheless.
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So I completly overhauled the map and it's back to a very raw status with hardly any doodads etc, but I would love to get some feedback on the changes, so please compare the new pictures to the old ones and tell me what you think about.
It's basically a ton of ideas I had over the last days to improve the map, that I all put in in a nightly editor-session yesterday.
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I think it's a huge improvement over the old version.
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main nat layout is a lot like my W.I.P map BANE
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Updated, see the log and pics for details
On July 20 2012 20:25 NunedQ wrote:
I think it's a huge improvement over the old version.
Thanks a lot. I'm now a little bit concerned about the rush distances, especially with natural rocks down. It should be quite well defendable, but the map doesn't follow the principle of keeping everything in a corner, which lets rush distances roughly stay the same over the course of a game.
On July 20 2012 22:20 DMR_Chane wrote:
main nat layout is a lot like my W.I.P map BANE
I couldn't find the map, do you have a link?
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It is a big improvement, good work. I really like how the 4th works on this map. I don't think you need the rocks covering the back side of the 3rd, though. However, the ridge above the 3rd is probably too strong for TvZ timings where tanks up there will give terran way too much power without having to commit fully into the 3rd. Maybe you can make a ramp on the back side of the ridge, and put rocks there?
The two neutral bases seem a little bit like winner's bases, the 12 especially. The 6 should be tucked further down, I think, and given a little more cover from the center. This would make it less relevant as a PF staging ground, for example, being more out of the way from the tower and direct nat2nat. It would also make it possible to take that base as a 5th that might actually stay alive while the other player takes a northern 5th.
The "increasing height" isn't really working out right now, the north bases are just extra bases up on a pod with ramps. Try taking away the 12 base and enlarging the top level. Right now those bases are too close together to be at all stable in the late game, pushing them also towards winner's bases. If you fix the north bases so it's possible they can both be occupied in the late game, this map might be really great. The other problems are the nat2nat with rocks down, and the ridge above the 3rd. I think the ridge might be too good right now because there's so much space, but it's also a cool feature. Those things just need testing. You could also increase the nat distance by adding more obstructions in the middle.
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Am I the only one who feels like zerg can't really take/keep a third against an active and good protoss?
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On July 25 2012 11:01 EatThePath wrote:
It is a big improvement, good work. I really like how the 4th works on this map. I don't think you need the rocks covering the back side of the 3rd, though. However, the ridge above the 3rd is probably too strong for TvZ timings where tanks up there will give terran way too much power without having to commit fully into the 3rd. Maybe you can make a ramp on the back side of the ridge, and put rocks there?
The ridge is undropable. I know, it's not really visible, but visually I was trying to make the Protoss decals blockers.
Really have to do make that analyzer show the doodad blockers!
(the only dropable highground are those small rocks in the middle)
Btw, I have realized a problem with those "invisible pathing blockers". You can actually rally drops at the edges where only 1x1 blockers are, and only when the dropship attempts to unload, it will give me a "fail message". However I think, it should simply not be possible to rally the command, like with any other undropable area. Any solutions for this?
The rocks on the backside of the third are on and off in my head Right now, I think they make it a little bit easier for Protoss to take a third on this map, especially against zerg, because I think that with the natural rocks down and the 2paths to the third, it might be kind of hard to initially hold a base against huge roach pushes. But I'd say they are a bit of a nonfactor, as the way they are placed they can easily be taken down if you really want to go through there with a bigger army.
On July 25 2012 11:01 EatThePath wrote:
The two neutral bases seem a little bit like winner's bases, the 12 especially. The 6 should be tucked further down, I think, and given a little more cover from the center. This would make it less relevant as a PF staging ground, for example, being more out of the way from the tower and direct nat2nat. It would also make it possible to take that base as a 5th that might actually stay alive while the other player takes a northern 5th.
I was actually intending that the 6 would cover a bit of the middle if taken as a PF, so that it might work out like the middle base on antiga for Terran. However, because the other player does not have to (and can not) take a close-to-that middle base, it would work out well.
A different problem I'm having with the 6 and 12 are, that due to the symmetry, it leaves me with 6hexes of space for the CC. It works out fine gameplaywise, because then simply one side of the minerals and gas become close patches (3hex gas and 4hex gas), while the others are still normal, but it feels a little bit weird placing it, because you basically have two equally good spots. Any idea how to fix that, without breaking the symmetry?
On July 25 2012 11:01 EatThePath wrote:
The "increasing height" isn't really working out right now, the north bases are just extra bases up on a pod with ramps. Try taking away the 12 base and enlarging the top level. Right now those bases are too close together to be at all stable in the late game, pushing them also towards winner's bases. If you fix the north bases so it's possible they can both be occupied in the late game, this map might be really great. The other problems are the nat2nat with rocks down, and the ridge above the 3rd. I think the ridge might be too good right now because there's so much space, but it's also a cool feature. Those things just need testing. You could also increase the nat distance by adding more obstructions in the middle.
Yeah, I think I have kind of given up on this idea for now. I feel like, it is still somewhat possible to give you cover from behind the the 12 oc base with tanks and warp in pylons and blinking up there and making for some OKish Overlord spots etc, but I think the original design was a bit of a fail at that part, because I felt like it wouldn't achieve anything, apart from giving players another counterattack path on the highest Terrain, once the rocks were down.
From moving around the map, the nothern 5th bases produce an interesting dynamic as they are:
Their distance is close to each other, yet when you want to attack them with a bigger army, you become very vulnerable to counterattacks towards 3rd, 4th and main&nat area. I'm not sure wether this is good or bad, but it might be enough to make those bases somewhat safe, at least for the time only one is being taken. If it doesn't work out right, I guess I'll have to put them further away from each other, or in the worst case remove the ramps that lead towards the middle.
Nat to nat ramp will be removed I guess. I hope there is still enough room for aggression then :S
On July 25 2012 11:16 thurst0n wrote:
Am I the only one who feels like zerg can't really take/keep a third against an active and good protoss?
Right now from drytesting the map, it feels quite OK. Protoss has to go through the third early on, which makes it kind of predictable where you have to defend and I think spines are quite good and you can pull your queens all to that spot.
Also you have enough space to spread out around the third, so that you cannot be forcefielded off too easily.
And later on I'd say the 3sized ramp makes infestors and spines quite strong against frontal attacks, and the open middle allows for army interceptions.
Only the nat to nat distance with rocks down really worries me.
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Oh. Okay. ^^
You can just paint pathing, or use the dynamic pathing blocker, both will function properly and cleaner method besides.
If you take out the ramp the map loses a lot of its character. Roach attack PvZ will be hard, but the distance is quite long to swing all the way around the back. And honestly I don't think the rocks will help that much, because keeping your sentries split to FF back there is already a scary proposition. I think with proper sim city it will be possible.
Maybe you can reorient the ramp somehow to stretch the path. glgl
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