Detention Mafia

On May 27 2014 11:24 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Hi haru! (did you get your name from the korean word 하루?)
you need to think up of a condition for yourself, or if you prefer, we shall think one up for you!

p.s. zis is hard, putting z in every post.

On May 27 2014 11:26 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Sure!
Haru, how much experience have you had in playing mafiaz?

On May 27 2014 11:31 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Guys, i really think jabber slipped here. Think about it, if he could put suspicion on chrom for playing differently, saying he was hiring an assasain last game, and could also be one this game, then we could fall for it.

The fact that he didn't know we knew who were tugging the buttons last game, he thought he could get away with it.


Well wham, bam, and thank you mam, we found one boys.

On May 27 2014 11:35 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

I don't like this.
If you're town, shouldn't it be a 3/12 chance?
Haru, what do you have to say about zat?

On May 27 2014 11:54 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Delicately, must I awkwardly introduce all of my posts and then just get on with them

On May 27 2014 11:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Mine is hard. I just have to sneak them in somehow.
I like how jabber's name includes a z. That makes it a lot ez-er.

On May 27 2014 11:57 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Haru, why are you helping jabberwockzerg defend himself?

On May 27 2014 11:59 27ninjabunnies wrote:


I dont understand how this post had anything to do with what my case was on him?

On May 27 2014 12:01 27ninjabunnies wrote:


Can i? Cause it seemed by his post that saying speaking of the vikings down under in anyway is against the rules.

On May 27 2014 12:02 27ninjabunnies wrote:


To me, it seemed as if you were coaching him to change the topic in order to get pressure off of him.

Why would you want to do that?

On May 27 2014 12:12 27ninjabunnies wrote:


It's not finger pointing.
It's how I get my reads.

If i find a post that seems like its sniffing the bishop, I'll point it out, question it, and get the reactions from whoever the post was pointed towards or the rest of people's reactions.

But how is his post not hugging the sandwich maker?!

He basically said you need to change the subject if you dont want to seem beating the chess game,

On May 27 2014 15:33 Amiko wrote:
@slOosh re: Alakaslam style of posting
Slam’s posting is usually fun, but occasionally frustrating since it’s not always clear what he means, so it can be hard to draw a read from that. I don’t think it is inherently bad

On Jabberwockzerg
I felt jabber’s first post was a bit odd because he copied his post from the prior game (where he was scum) and I feel like he might have a different opening if he was town.
I also think bunnies may be onto something, but I’m not sure if her post (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#106) realizes the more damning point or not (it’s sorta weirdly written) so I’ll write it just in case. To me, what is suspicious about jabber’s post is that he suggested a player was mafia last game, but he knew that the player was not mafia last game. In other words, he offered a scenario as a counterpoint that he knew to be false.
It’d be fine if he said he was just raising the point as a possibility, but his answer (that he didn’t know it was public information) doesn’t look so hot. I’m not convinced on him yet, but I want to pursue this.

@Jabberwockzerg: 27ninjabunnies has raised a point regarding your play that she argues shows you are mafia. You also posted that she was doing a lot of finger pointing on day one.
Do you think her point on you is good?
Do you feel that her raising that point makes her more likely to be town or mafia?

@fuba and @HaruRH: You joined the vote on jabberwockzerg. I understand that you agree with bunnies’ point on him – what do you think of jabberwockzerg’s responses after bunnies’ vote? Do they feel more town or scum to you?

aside
@HaruRH: This is not game-oriented, but I really like the “God Knows” song from Haruhi and love to sing it in karaoke :D

On May 27 2014 12:15 jabberwockzerg wrote:

If we're both mafia, wouldn't he have told me that in the QT?

On May 27 2014 11:24 jabberwockzerg wrote:

Didn't realize that was public information
My bad

On May 27 2014 11:50 jabberwockzerg wrote:

Clearing this up, I didn't mean mafia specifically, just non vanilla. Was this bad wording? Yes. Stupid of me? Yes. Learning experience, definitely

On May 27 2014 11:56 jabberwockzerg wrote:

Essentially, at that point in the game I was just spitballing.

On May 27 2014 21:07 Chromatically wrote:

I don't like this choice of words so soon after you voted him, though. This makes it seem like you know he is town.

On May 28 2014 05:30 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

EBWOP:
I think jwz is most likely just a noob scum who slipped, his comment make most sense from a mafia point of view.

I find fuba and haru to be suspicious because of the manner they defend jwz, they don't come out strongly against the case but are instead content to make vague statements of disagreement while not doing anything to rock the boat.

I disagree with slam, I think mderg has been jwz's best defender thus far and I like him for it because he's had the balls to stand by his opinion unlike fuba and haru. I think mderg is wrong but the way he presents his arguments comes off town to me.

On May 28 2014 22:06 Palmar wrote:


The "too scummy to be scum" concept is a very fragile and shitty, but surprisingly often correct thing that happens.

The idea is basically that if he is mafia, his team knows he made a blunder, so they would help him devise a strategy to come back, or bus him.

if bus: I'd expect him to just shut up and not try to come back. Now I know I'm town but other people don't so this is weak from everyone else's perspective, but why on earth is he piling shit on me if his team is busing him. That is basically just helping me gain influcence in town. It's just bad play if he's mafia to give credit to a townie.

if they try to save him: I'd expect him/his team/mafia coach to have come up with a better plan than what he has posted. His arguments are just straight up awful, If the mafia team can't collectively think up some better defense than this well.. I just don't want to believe that.

And thus, he's being soooo awful that it's possible he's too scummy to be scum. He's blatantly wrong. He's hardly trying to cover up how awful his stuff is.

But, there's also the chance that he's just acting on his own, he messed up, he's not thinking long term and thought maybe a wagon could be built on me, and in that case he's just mafia who's playing badly.

Like I don't really like or see the point in speculating on this thing. If we have a slam dunk case on someone I'll support it, but currently I see no other outcome for today than lynching him.

On May 29 2014 04:24 Amiko wrote:
I am working through reads on other players but here's one I will put up while I work on the others on HaruRH.

HaruRH has made some comments I think are scummy or weird, if you are in thread and don't have other stuff to talk about, let me know what you think.

1) Seems to have joined JWZ case on grounds that feel overly non-committal
After a case is made on jabberwockzerg, HaruRH presents the case as a gamble and talks a bit about odds - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=6#109. To me, this seems like a strange view. If you feel you want to go with the odds, JWZ is no more or less likely to be scum than anyone else. I dislike this for two reasons. (1) it gives no response on ninjabunnies' points; (2) it does not tie him to his vote on JWZ at all - his justification (probability) applies equally to everyone.


2) Tells JWZ to talk about things other than the case on him, but will only unvote JWZ if he addresses the case on him
HaruRH more or less suggests JWZ change the subject to avoid getting votes http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=130&topic_id=451317. Initially, I didn't think this was bad - I also wanted to see JWZ scumhunt and talk about other issues, and some other players asked for that as well (Palmar comes to mind).

But, HaruRH then says



This is weird because he's told jabber to talk about something else... but won't unvote unless jabber talks more about the topic.

3) Weird role comments


This feels strange to me for a few reasons as well.
(1) There's no point to claiming VT at this time (or in general).

(2) I don't understand how he manages to see the different roles in the OP, but misses the red text underneath saying we don't know the setup.

I don't see why he'd start thinking about the setup at this point. This post could be trying to role-fish because he is thinking about night kills.

On May 28 2014 22:37 Palmar wrote:
I don't think we know which setup was used.

On May 28 2014 22:58 Chromatically wrote:
Why would the setup be important for you to know? How is this relevant at all to the situation?

On May 27 2014 21:29 Palmar wrote:
Just read Chrome's post above. I'm feeling good about this lynch. All on board!

On May 28 2014 21:11 Palmar wrote:


I don't know.

I think we have to lynch him. He's flailing so much and saying all the wrong things even after coming back to the thread makes it hard to think he will 100% flip mafia. If he is mafia he is not receiving any help from coaches or teammates.

On May 29 2014 09:25 fuba wrote:

Eh, he also didn't know that there wasn't a vigi in this game (I think that was him). I think he just plays mafia and checks the setup if it's really important for him to do so. Actually, mafia would know that they were given the setup, so I think scum palmar would be more likely to actually know that town doesn't know. If that makes sense, haha.

On May 30 2014 02:36 Amiko wrote:
@HaruRH
I have some additional concerns regarding your last few posts. Please respond since it'll help me read you.

(1) Position on JWZ vs. Palmar

Look at the parts of these two posts-





It seems from these posts that you have a fairly weak read on JWZ as scum at the time of the posts (30% town, 20% mafia). You seemed to have a more certain scumread on Palmar. I'm confused why your vote stays on JWZ. Is Palmar currently your top scum?

(2) Setup Comments
No one in the game could know the setup at this point regardless of their alignment/role (unless they are somehow a genius and have determined the power roles). So why do you feel Palmar saying he's not sure about the setup is scummy since lack of knowledge would come from town or scum?

I guess it does evidence that he didn't read the OP, but I have seen town and scum both do that (for example, one or two newbie games back a few players thought they had a cop when they had a parity cop).

On May 30 2014 08:01 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
@haru
You didn't put people such as amiko or MZ. What is your take on them?

On May 30 2014 09:42 Chromatically wrote:
out of the people I didn't mention, I would put them in order of decreasing scumminess

gobble
slam
haru
fuba

On May 30 2014 10:38 Amiko wrote:
On Haru
I made some points on Haru. I still think his responses are still pretty weird. For instance, this is from his last post-


“Low” Scumreads (High Scumreads = 30%?)
First, look at the second paragraph of the quote above. He is stating he has a low scumread on slam, slosh, chrom, and 27ninjabunnies. The way it’s written, it seems like this means that these players have a low scumread, as opposed to the other players he’s discussed.
But, if you look at the post above, his reads on Palmar/sqrt/mderg are 30% scum or 20% scum. This doesn’t feel right to me – if I thought someone was 80% town VT, I think I would consider that a townread on that player, not a scumread.

I’ll also mention that to me, his reads are weird (Palmar and mderg both seem towny to me right now).

@MHaru: If you understand my point here, can you clarify your reads here?
You could talk about Palmar – I think his play yesterday is sort of three parts – 1) vote on bunnies, 2) pushing the jabber case, 3) interactions with M_Z. I’d appreciate your comments on his interactions with M_Z the most, if those contributed to your read, since I think M_Z should get some attention today.
Could you also explain what you mean by the “post types” for Alakaslam and slOosh? Although the two interacted, I feel like they post in different ways so I’m not sure what you mean.

On May 30 2014 11:57 27ninjabunnies wrote:
Im super glad chrom was town there.
. Sorry for not being more active through the night.

I think the lynch should be fuba, or mZ, ill give reads why in a minute since I just got home. Just wanted to update.

Anything specific yall want me to look at??

On May 30 2014 13:06 Amiko wrote:
Okay, reading through filters, slOosh is my top scum right now and I want to lynch him.

There’s other things that I think support scumreading him, but I think this is the best point so I want to start here and build.

I think the central point is: After voting jabber, slOosh does nothing to develop his feelings on jabber. He doesn't try to get explanations from jabber or even follow up after jabber's responses

This is the post where slOosh joins the vote for jabber.

Initially, this is worrisome because slOosh is joining the wagon in a noncommittal way. He isn’t stating what he agrees or disagrees with. This is a “+1” post. This is potentially scummy because it’s bandwagoning without commitment. But the remainder of the day is what turns from suspicious to scummy.

After his vote, slOosh does almost nothing on the lynch on jabber. So, take a look at other players’ actions D1. Other players question jabber – they are not sure on the lynch, so they want to get more information or talk about the issue more with other players.

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slOosh's D1 is different from almost every other player D1 because of his lack of interaction or followup on slOosh

I went through every players' filter and I think almost all of them (maybe not Slam) support my read on slOosh as uninterested in the jabber lynch. This is a little long so I'll put it in a spoiler, but I really invite you to read through it.

+ Show Spoiler +
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So I just went through all these players. Why?

It’s certainly possible for mafia to ask questions to jabber. They probably did!

But, it is really hard for me to believe that town joins a vote on jabber, yet doesn’t seem to revisit the issue, talk about its merits with other players, or get some sort of confirmation from jabber.

Pretty much every player in the game discussed the jabber lynch to some extent. Maybe we questioned jabber, or we explained our thoughts on why it could be a natural mistake, a scumslip, what jabber’s followup comments meant to us, etc.

slOosh doesn’t ask any questions to jabber, or really follow up on the lynch. We get his explanation here (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451317-detention-mafia?page=12#229).
After voting for jabber, slOosh's D1 is questioning other players on why they vote for jabber, talking about Slam & Palmar, etc. Seriously, take a look at his filter and see how little he has to say about the lynch that was there basically the entire day.


Wheres other players expressed doubt through trying to get more information, press jabber for more information, etc.,
If you are town, you (like me) did not know whether jabber was mafia or not. You talked about the lynch, you read jabber's responses, and you probably considered them and wrote something about your reads.

slOosh's d1 reflects indifference to the lynch. I feel that indifference comes from scum.


##Vote: slOosh

On May 30 2014 16:04 Alakaslam wrote:
Yet, oddly, I give you another example of us agreeing .

##Vote: Sloosh

On May 28 2014 16:48 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
K sqrt I'm starting to have a serious problem here. You go from this:



To this:





You can't "think he's town" and think he's scum too" at the same time. This is actually pretty scummy imo.

Oh hey 27NB:

I also am really digging this post here although I disagree with mderg and I'd insert someone else, who I'm not sure of yet.

So Palmar, just so the record is straight, now I'm calling sqrt scum for clearly contradicting himself in an attempt to be vague and not get caught supporting the wrong person.

On June 01 2014 09:58 Amiko wrote:
@Haru:
Explain this before the flip please.

(1) Are you townreading slOosh (like fuba is?)
(2) Did you move off M_Z because of slOosh's post? Because of the vote patterns?
(3) Disregarding the other points, who do you feel is actually scummier?

On June 01 2014 09:51 Amiko wrote:
@Palmar:
I want you to reveal this was all a clever ploy to get scum to move onto M_Z and that you are now going to move back to slOosh. pls

On June 01 2014 06:40 slOosh wrote:
Meapak is scum and skirting by another day because of the wagon on me. Please refer back to my case and don't get sidetracked. Make sure he gets lynched tomorrow. The fact that he comes in to slap his vote despite no one actually asking him why he did it is proof he isn't really attentive to thread.

Pressure gobbles next. His huge post concerning MZ doesn't really seem to have a conclusion, and it's not clear how exactly he is reading MZ as town.

With bunny,

Find out what she means by this. As someone who was pretty involved day 1, she should question a palmer mz scum team the way they went against each other. Likewise for day 2. This is a very strange post.

I don't think fuba is as scummy as people are making him to be. His reads of MZ and sqrt seem very reasonable in that they aren't leaning hard either way but seem to be developing over time, considering that they could be town / mafia, instead of just assuming that they are one and going with it, which is what mafia do.

Amiko ... I'm not too sure. I could see scum making a strong push for MZ, since he brushes off anything I say about MZ and makes sure the focus is on me, or it could just be misguided townie thinking I'm the stronger lynch. I would be watchful of what his actions relating to non-MZ players are, especially during the next day.

Good luck town. Watch out for busses tomorrow.

On June 01 2014 10:17 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Really sorry for suspecting you, amiko.
Like seriously.
I was 10000000000000000% sure you were scum.

On June 01 2014 10:23 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I'm just gonna go into the corner now, and sheep amiko from now on.
I've done nothing of value this game.

On June 01 2014 10:24 fuba wrote:

How was it scummy? I felt like he was purely concerned that his work for the entire day was going to be ruined by some guy coming in at the last minute and giving scum the opportunity they needed. I mean, I didn't see it that way, but I saw him as seeing it that way.

On June 01 2014 10:29 fuba wrote:
Which push are you referring to? Was it before or after I came into the thread and switched my vote?

On June 01 2014 10:34 fuba wrote:
Wasn't trying to debate, was just trying to understand. I feel like I've just been completely off track this game, despite actually being right about gobble.

On June 01 2014 18:52 mderg wrote:
I don´t even want to imagine what would have happened, if gobble voted and MZ was town...

In general I think scum is either MZ or likely to be found on the MZ wagon. I´m rather confident that it´s one between MZ, Palmar, sqrt, HaruRH. I don´t think it´s fuba, he started that and put himself in the spotlight in a way you probably wouldn´t want to as scum. The voteswitch at the end was strange because I don´t think it was going too easily. I mean the case was solid and based on sloosh´s whole game, and there were still like 3 people voting MZ.




That was actually me and his defense suggested otherwise, so I don´t think it was really a solid point at the end of the day.



I don´t think he sold out his teammates. His "reads" should probably not even taken into consideration right now since he was almost certainly going to get lynched at that point.


For now I´d still go with MZ. I read him as scum since the end of day 1.

On June 01 2014 20:56 mderg wrote:

I probably worded that poorly. What I meant is that we can´t be sure what his last "reads" mean.
What exactly do you mean by selling out?

On June 01 2014 22:12 mderg wrote:

He was most likely going to die either way. There was no way Palmar or Slam were gonna get lynched instead of him.

On June 01 2014 20:35 HaruRH wrote:
What I gathered from sloosh's last post is that he pretty much want gobble to be cleared out of suspicion along with everyone on the list. If gobble didnt get modkilled, almost everyone will clear gobble of his suspicions since a last post by sloosh the scum should be ignored.

What sloosh didnt expect is that gobble got modkilled instead. His plan to hide his scum friends were destroyed. Lynch everyone on his list.

On June 02 2014 10:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

Slam claimed rb which confirms him as town unless he's lying. Leaving a confirmed townie alive is a cardinal sin.

On June 02 2014 11:51 Amiko wrote:


Do you think scum would trade the benefit of this for the use of their roleblock?
If they did this, do you think it is a good move or bad move?

On June 02 2014 12:08 Alakaslam wrote:
What about if nobody was rb?

Because u L8

I not roleblock

On June 04 2014 01:06 Amiko wrote:
@Haru:
Last night, your preferred lynches seemed to be
(1) Lynch everyone on slOosh's death list (which I still think is vague)
(2) Lynch M_Z into Palmar

I can at least agree that M_Z is on slOosh's death list.
Palmar is only sort of on the list (he's mentioned tangentially when discussing bunnies). Fuba and me are both mentioned in more detail on the list.

So, can you tell me why you want to lynch Palmar over Fuba?

On June 04 2014 08:32 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:

You can still catch the last scum, don't write yourself off yet.

On June 04 2014 08:55 Palmar wrote:

I'm not mafia.

If I'm not mafia, who is mafia MZ. I will move this lynch off you if I can if your answer is good enough.

On June 01 2014 06:40 slOosh wrote:
Meapak is scum and skirting by another day because of the wagon on me. Please refer back to my case and don't get sidetracked. Make sure he gets lynched tomorrow. The fact that he comes in to slap his vote despite no one actually asking him why he did it is proof he isn't really attentive to thread.

Pressure gobbles next. His huge post concerning MZ doesn't really seem to have a conclusion, and it's not clear how exactly he is reading MZ as town.

With bunny,

Find out what she means by this. As someone who was pretty involved day 1, she should question a palmer mz scum team the way they went against each other. Likewise for day 2. This is a very strange post.

I don't think fuba is as scummy as people are making him to be. His reads of MZ and sqrt seem very reasonable in that they aren't leaning hard either way but seem to be developing over time, considering that they could be town / mafia, instead of just assuming that they are one and going with it, which is what mafia do.

Amiko ... I'm not too sure. I could see scum making a strong push for MZ, since he brushes off anything I say about MZ and makes sure the focus is on me, or it could just be misguided townie thinking I'm the stronger lynch. I would be watchful of what his actions relating to non-MZ players are, especially during the next day.

Good luck town. Watch out for busses tomorrow.

On June 04 2014 09:52 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I'm pretty sure that BH rnged the roles?

On June 04 2014 12:37 Amiko wrote:
I think I understand your comment like this-
You think Palmar is more likely scum, but you need to check fuba because he was on slOosh's list?

On June 04 2014 12:36 Amiko wrote:


Your list?
Is your list people you think are town or people you think are scum?

On June 04 2014 12:34 Amiko wrote:
Also, doesn't your post on slOosh's list basically fall apart if you consider that slOosh probably made that post expecting to be lynched himself?
At the time he made the list, he was the leading wagon by a significant margin with about two hours until the lynch.

I don't think he could have foreseen that so many people would move to another wagon - even if his scum partner was on slOosh and moved and gobble voted, they still had to pull in more town than I think he could reasonably expect.

So, rather than-


I'll also add that there's no guarantee he was planning to kill bunnies at that time - as M_Z was getting lynched, quite a few people thought slOosh was town as well. I'm not sure that would have changed just because M_Z had flipped. So, I think the people who voted slOosh wouldn't have been so townread, and bunnies may have stayed alive (especially given how she was barely playing).

On June 04 2014 14:29 Amiko wrote:

Well, I think I said exactly the opposite of that assumption.
+ Show Spoiler +

But I don't really think it's worth talking about this anyway.
slOosh's contained scum if he wanted it to contain scum, and it contained town if he wanted it to contain town. It might contain some scum, it might contain all scum. I have no reason to think one of these is any likelier than the other - it is all just speculative guessing.
If the argument is wrong, it's speculative in ways that aren't helpful.
If the argument is right, it's speculative in ways that happen to be helpful.

---

Let's talk about this point because I think it's more important-

First off, did you write the first sentence correctly? (scum = people who pushed/sheeped on slOosh & sheeped on M_Z)

Second, why don't you include sqrt?

Third, you realize that you also pushed/sheeped the M_Z lynch.
If you are town, why is it scummy when Palmar/fuba did this but not scummy when you did it (as town)?
Or is it scummy that you did it?

MZ is mafia

On June 02 2014 04:43 Palmar wrote:
@Amiko I'm not sure on MZ (mostly because if he was mafia wouldn't he just have surrendered by now?). But I still want to lynch him.

I still think he's the correct lynch, I'm just not entirely convinced I'm going to end up being right. It's just normal doubt. "It can't be this easy".

On May 29 2014 07:05 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
I propose a new wagon:
Fuba.

He votes jwz, and then unvotes him the next post with this explanation:


Soon after, he votes him again.


His next significant post, and his last post is this:

Has there been significant discussion about jwz?

Also, I disagree that the fact that he hasn't defended himself or offered an alternative wagon indicates that he's scum. I feel that jwz's attitude right now is more like a town who's resigned to being mislynched.

This guy hasn't made much contributions.
This guy doesn't look like town to me.
This guy is scum.

##Vote: fuba

On June 04 2014 19:48 Palmar wrote:
Tbh I still think this game will solve itself. We _still_ have two blues.

Btw, if a blue claims in lylo mafia can counterclaim. So it's probably better to claim one cycle before lylo. I don't know how obvious this is but please make sure we don't waste confirmed townies.

On June 04 2014 22:33 mderg wrote:

I agree that the MZ lynch needed to happen but in the end it didn´t bring us any further.

On June 04 2014 23:00 Palmar wrote:
Discussing the setup is fine btw.

If my count is right, tomorrow we'll be 6 people alive.

mderg
HaruRH
sqrtofneg1
Amiko
Alakaslam
fuba
Palmar

that's 5v1.

I would suggest in a 5v1 scenario that town no-lynches, bringing it down to 4v1 (and that's when claims should happen at latest) -> lynch -> nk -> 2v1 (lylo).

The reason we should no-lynch is that it gives cop/watcher additional night to work with. Of course mafia might decide to not shoot in the 5v1 scenario forcing us to lynch, but in that case just lynch.

On June 05 2014 05:46 Amiko wrote:
Haru I feel like I just do not understand what you are saying 50% or more of the time, I'm sorry but please keep talking to me so I can try to understand.



I feel like you keep writing slOosh when you should be writing M_Z.
This is the vote count:

I color coded the confirmed people. There is one scum left.

I don't think there is any grounds to say that there has to be a scum inside the people who sheeped/pushed slOosh.
So, how are you saying:

Especially when, from your post, your primary suspects are fuba and palmar, who were both on M_Z?

[b]In short, either
(a) There is a scum who sheeped/pushed slOosh
(b) Fuba or Palmar is scum
You are saying you think both of these things. But, it cannot be both, unless you think Fuba & Palmar pushed/sheeped slOosh (i.e. that Fuba & Palmar fit into (a)) I don't think they did sheep/push slOosh at all.

Just in case we are confused, I think of "pushing" a lynch as supporting a lynch. I.e. "Amiko pushed the slOosh lynch d2."

On June 05 2014 10:29 sqrtofneg1 wrote:

I had mad townreads on haru though. And I thought I couldn't save you again.

On June 05 2014 18:34 Palmar wrote:


You too.

Case please.

On June 05 2014 19:11 Palmar wrote:


This is incorrect logic.

Everyone knows exactly why I wanted to lynch meapak. I repeatedly gave my reasons. Too bad my reasons also applied to a lazy apathetic townie (not reading the thread, making asinine statements etc).

If you lynch me today, you will have to decide tomorrow between fuba and mderg, as the rest are confirmed by mechanics. Yes I agree, I could just roll over assuming I'm convinced one of the other two is mafia, but that is accepting a mislynch. I'm not MZ, I don't lay down and die like a good boy. I hate being lynched as town, especially for no reasons at all.

Ideally I'd like you all to give reasons, because you're using terrible reasons to lynch me because you guys are refusing to read the thread for some reason. At least that would give me satisfaction post game.

Amiko read me 100% correctly on day 1. He decided to just say "well fuck that, palmar thought MZ was mafia". I have no idea why.

Even if you guys (the confirmed players) have no intention of doing anything other than lynch me today, you should absolutely force fuba and mderg into doing what I'm doing. It's dumb as hell not to do it. Just threaten them with a lynch. Move your votes to them (especially fuba) until he comes back and actually does anything.

On June 05 2014 19:12 Palmar wrote:

Almost no one was talking about gobble.

So why didn't I bus sloosh then and try to protect gobble? Wouldn't that make more sense?

Your logic is awful.

On June 05 2014 19:16 mderg wrote:

You think fuba would be the best lynch target? If so, you should probably try to push that lynch. It´s not like you have to be in favor of lynching Palmar just because the majority wants to lynch him.

On June 05 2014 23:32 Amiko wrote:
And no, you are the top lynch because there are three people unconfirmed and
(1) you are the scummiest of the three
(2) mderg is the least scummy of the three, so it doesn't matter to me a whole lot whether you or fuba dies first.

I'd rather kill you first though, since I think if we finish the game tonight probably I don't end the game dead :3

There is also the small possibility that if we leave you alive until tomorrow you will bamboozle Haru into voting for mderg for no good reason.

On June 06 2014 13:01 Amiko wrote:
@Mderg:
Can you talk some about fuba in particular?
Ideally I'd like you to make as strong a case on fuba as you can.

@fuba:
Can you explain to me why you raised your case on sqrt when you did?
I think I raised the point earlier-
To me, the tone of your post seemed like you were just interjecting in a conversation you were involved in (you said something like "I'm glad you mentioned sqrt"). But, if you were following the conversation, I would have expected you to be caught up on the slOosh / M_Z lynches and weigh in on the bandwagons.
It seemed to me like that post just didn't belong at that time.
There's other stuff on D2 I'll try to bring up as I continue through thread.

On June 07 2014 01:18 Palmar wrote:
Day 1.

I don't know what happened. Maybe I dreamt the whole thing. I was having a conversation, quite a heated conversation. Someone wanted to kill me, neither of us was sure for exactly what reason. The last thing I remember is some fading echoes of how I hadn't changed his mind.

And now I'm stuck here. It took me a while to fully realize that I'm alone. I'm not quite sure how to proceed from here. I thought I was talking to someone, but only the wind seems to have heard me.

On June 07 2014 02:02 Amiko wrote:


Are they hiding?
Or are they trying to get attention?
I don't understand how this sentence makes sense on its own, or preceding the statement that fuba is the lynch.

On June 07 2014 02:10 Amiko wrote:
Anyway Haru honestly, whether we lynch Palmar first or Fuba first only matters if you think mderg can be scum.
It is possible, but I think the likelihood is really remote (and for what it's worth, it seems Palmar and Fuba both are stating the same).

If Palmar is lynched and flips town, I think the obvious move is to lynch Fuba tomorrow unless there's any real case on mderg. Take a look at fuba's points on mderg and see what you think of them. I know you suspect fuba, but take a look and see what you think.

On June 06 2014 04:30 fuba wrote:
I also realize that both Palmar and I, whether town or scum, will probably want to lynch mderg first because mderg is a much more difficult person to lynch than myself or palmar, respectively.

I'm not sure there's a way for town to win out of this situation if Palmar isn't scum, tbh XD I feel like if I'm lynched first then Palmar is almost definitely the next lynch, judging from the thread recently. And if Palmar is lynched first then I'm not sure I see people lynching mderg over me, when even I've admitted that it makes more sense that he was actually roleblocked than scum is faking the roleblock.

Because my game feels pretty much over either way, I'll just sheep Amiko.

##Vote: Palmar

Because why not~

On June 06 2014 06:17 mderg wrote:
I feel like Palmar´s defense is completely based on 1 point, that he wouldn´t play like this as mafia. His actions would make sense as town but they would also make sense as scum.

His vote on bunnies doesn´t make him town. Slightly pushing a townie for weak reasons doesn´t instantly make one suspicious. It seems like a low risk low reward move to make as scum.

Semi-busing sloosh and gobble was without any follow up, so that didn´t actually put them under huge pressure, so it wasn´t very dangerous and could be used to distance himself from these two resulting in him being less suspicious when they flip or the other way around. It would be pretty ballsy but I think Palmar is capable of that.

Staying on MZ on day 2 also makes sense from a scum perspective because one more vote would have changed things. Especially with the third mafia not voting this could have ended in a mislynch and put a scumteam of sloosh, gobble, palmar in a good position.

So it all kinda comes down to this:

The thing about this is that it´s simply a matter of believing him or not believing him. And I don´t believe him.

On June 07 2014 02:33 Amiko wrote:
"I'm not sure there's a way for town to win out of this situation if Palmar isn't scum"
Why is this suspicious?

It seems like something fuba would say if he was town (I don't townread him for saying it, I'm just saying it doesn't seem scummy to me)

If fuba is town, from his point of view the remaining mafia is either Palmar or mderg. I think fuba recognizes that the prevailing thought is that mderg is the most towny of these three, so it's irrelevant whether Palmar or Fuba is lynched first if mderg is scum.

On June 07 2014 02:33 Amiko wrote:
If fuba is town, from his point of view the remaining mafia is either Palmar or mderg. I think fuba recognizes that the prevailing thought is that mderg is the most towny of these three, so it's irrelevant whether Palmar or Fuba is lynched first if mderg is scum.

On June 04 2014 02:06 mderg wrote:
This honestly feels like scum who´s given up.

On June 07 2014 02:44 Amiko wrote:
That's fine. Let's talk after the game since I'll know your helpful comments are genuine.

On June 07 2014 02:51 Amiko wrote:


Don't you think there will be more pressure on fuba to talk tomorrow?
When everyone who is left seems to want to vote him?
When Palmar isn't here to be a focus?

On June 07 2014 02:51 Amiko wrote:
When everyone who is left seems to want to vote him?

On June 06 2014 04:30 fuba wrote:

Because my game feels pretty much over either way, I'll just sheep Amiko.

##Vote: Palmar

Because why not~

On June 08 2014 17:22 mderg wrote:

What exactly do you mean with MZ sheeping? I made my case on him at thee end of day 1 and he did almost nothing to defend himself. I wouldn´t call that sheeping.

On June 10 2014 10:48 Chromatically wrote:
I think we're all having the wrong reaction to this. The right answer is that based town hero Haru was so certain that mderg was scum, that he actually refused to enter the thread so that his mind could not be poisoned by scum lies.

On June 10 2014 14:33 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Sorry for the shit play, gj new guys for carrying my ass to victory.

On June 10 2014 15:11 Amiko wrote:
Eh that's not really fair Haru. I certainly doubt I would have ended up voting mderg - I felt like my line of thought was correct regarding the n2 roleblock,was correct (and it was, except it was changed with the host mistake). But like I said pre-death, if I wanted you to just sheep me on fuba, I would have asked you to. And whereas on other days my goal was to lynch specific people, if I'm alive in LYLO I'm willing to consider anything - my first game LYLO is a good example of that, I think.

I don't really see why it's important that Haru and Sqrt vote on the same person in a 4-player LYLO, though. Fuba and mderg were going to crossvote for sure, and there's no guarantee either of the confirmed town is more right than the other. You can argue that makes it a 50% chance, but if they are picking between two players it's still a 50% chance, right?
As an aside, Haru seemed a little confused ("Either me or sqrt needs to hold the absolute lynch now, it mustn't fall onto mderg or fuba.") - there was no way mderg or fuba could have controlled the lynch because they had to vote each other. Haru didn't take the lynch power away from them - he took it from sqrt.

Anyway glad you were able to figure out who the last scum was Haru, good job and well played!

On June 10 2014 19:33 Chromatically wrote:
haha Haru now I feel bad, I thought you were actually afk and you hadn't decided on who you were voting. If you did decide on mderg, then nice job :p